Staten Island Resident Eric Garner Dies after Chokehold fr…
Forum Index > General Forum |
ninazerg
United States7290 Posts
| ||
Vivax
Austria20863 Posts
Couple that with the feeling of belonging to a faction that many people don't like but still is necessary. I like to see them as martyrs that end up with an unhealthy mindset and apathy in the course of their careers, as they see all sorts of fucked up shit and have to enforce stuff they don't necessarily agree with, like going after certain drug delicts, or kicking people out of their homes cause they can't pay. They definitely need more supervision, especially in the US where stuff like this seems to be more common, although it certainly isn't confined to it. Try to give them more tasks that remind them that they are also a part of the people they have to look after, and not just of the police corps, and that they are supposed to do stuff that is right for a majority and not just for the cold law. | ||
rd
United States2586 Posts
On July 28 2014 18:11 Fleetfeet wrote: Regardless of intent, the result is a dead man purely because of negligence, negligence from a man who should be very well trained in the task he was attempting to do. That NEEDS to have both some level of the police as a unit stepping forward to take ownership of the offense, and publicizing a punishment. They need to show that they know and accept that how this played out is unacceptable, and if their employees are in a position where their mistake can take an otherwise functioning life then there need to be measures in place to prevent that from happening or greatly discourage the possibility. There should be no profession where killing a man over a petty crime isn't considered murder. Regardless of intent? You DO understand that in order to be convicted for murder of ANY degree in the USA, there HAS to be intent. To even be convicted of manslaughter, there has to be intent. Do you want to see negligent police officers behind bars? So do I. So lets charge them with crimes under the law we claim to abide by as they should too. If you have any respect for the criminal justice system you want upheld, you'll stop calling him a murderer/the crime murder; it exhumes bias and reckless ignorance. It was criminal negligence/negligent homicide. | ||
MiX
United States109 Posts
Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nypd-chokehold-arrest-of-eric-garner-ruled-homicide-by-medical-examiner/ Also, as someone who has a bachelor's degree in criminal justice I know all too well how screwed up our police system is. The paramilitary "us against them" style of policing has only enabled thugs in uniforms to do this shit and get away with it. I also have my own personal experiences with police brutality if that matters. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21789 Posts
On August 02 2014 09:34 MiX wrote: The death of Eric Garner was officially ruled a homicide today by the New York City Medical Examiner's office. According to them, his death "was caused by compression of neck and chest." Not the ridiculous police bullshit that he died from a "heart attack." It's also fucking pathetic that the guy who did this was placed on desk duty after murdering someone. No suspension or firing, just desk duty. Apparently the FBI and U.S. Attorney's office are also starting an investigation. Hope this guy burns so police get a message they can't do this shit without consequence. Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nypd-chokehold-arrest-of-eric-garner-ruled-homicide-by-medical-examiner/ Also, as someone who has a bachelor's degree in criminal justice I know all too well how screwed up our police system is. The paramilitary "us against them" style of policing has only enabled thugs in uniforms to do this shit and get away with it. I also have my own personal experiences with police brutality if that matters. Well with it being ruled a homicide and the FBI getting involved I think there is at least a 40/40 (tehehe) shot of him at least no longer being an officer of the law. After charging 6 dishonest, drug dealing, strong-arming, kidnapping, hostage taking, burglarizing, extortionist, etc... However based on how the NYPD responded to the complaints about obviously racist use of the stop and frisk policy,I can't be sure this killer will see justice. Too bad cops don't get paid more maybe they could just plead sudden and acute affluenza... (Got some kid out of doing ANY time after murdering 4 people while driving drunk). Most of the time our 'criminal justice' system feels more like a joke at poor peoples expense, than some righteous legal accounting system. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15714 Posts
On July 28 2014 23:13 Vivax wrote: Being a cop must be a terrible job. You're always confronted with the scum of society, you get trained to deal with the scum of society, you end up dealing with most as if they were the scum of society, all along with a feeling of "we're the law, have to behave perfectly and these guys can do whatever they want". Couple that with the feeling of belonging to a faction that many people don't like but still is necessary. I like to see them as martyrs that end up with an unhealthy mindset and apathy in the course of their careers, as they see all sorts of fucked up shit and have to enforce stuff they don't necessarily agree with, like going after certain drug delicts, or kicking people out of their homes cause they can't pay. They definitely need more supervision, especially in the US where stuff like this seems to be more common, although it certainly isn't confined to it. Try to give them more tasks that remind them that they are also a part of the people they have to look after, and not just of the police corps, and that they are supposed to do stuff that is right for a majority and not just for the cold law. God forbid we actually expect the people who are tasked with the responsibility of maintaining law and order to act responsibly. BTW. This case was officially ruled a homicide today. http://abcnews.go.com/US/nypd-chokehold-death-homicide-medical-examiner-rules/story?id=24811834 EDIT: I see I was beaten to the punch on this. | ||
Elroi
Sweden5470 Posts
| ||
LibertyRises
United States175 Posts
On July 23 2014 06:36 rd wrote: Okay, the video posted in the OP is extremely biased. I read the thread before watching the video, and I'm glad I did, because my expectations were much higher than what I actually witnessed. Everything the police did in arresting this man seemed fine -- EXCEPT for the chokehold. It definitely did not appear like the officer chokeholding him had any intent of murdering him. The brutality has been way over exaggerated. That being said, when a civilian accidentally kills someone, there are consequences. The officer chokeholding Garner neglected legal conduct and a man died for it, and subsequently should face criminal prosecution. Garner was definitely resisting arrest when he was on his feet; when he was on the ground he was in no position to resist, and could at most threaten the police officers with a broken nose from a flailing elbow. I'd gladly have my nose broken if it meant someone could be alive. Also, the comments made on the police forum are absolutely disgusting. As a person of color in America you should have known better. You do not break up fights, or get involved with anything where the police will be called. In fact, you do not even stay in the area you might get randomly detained. I made that mistake at a bar once, I got beat up, never threw a punch, when the cops came they took me down cuffed me on the curb and spoke down to me as if I was not even human. When they did clarify my story, and asked me if I wanted to press charges on the culprits I was so disillusioned I only wanted to get the fuck away. I will seriously reconsider anytime I get the urge to help someone in distress. And this is the world we live in. The police, if they do not relate to you in your area, do not feel you have the same rights as everyone else. Assumptions sometimes get you killed. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21789 Posts
On August 03 2014 03:53 LibertyRises wrote: As a person of color in America you should have known better. You do not break up fights, or get involved with anything where the police will be called. In fact, you do not even stay in the area you might get randomly detained. I made that mistake at a bar once, I got beat up, never threw a punch, when the cops came they took me down cuffed me on the curb and spoke down to me as if I was not even human. When they did clarify my story, and asked me if I wanted to press charges on the culprits I was so disillusioned I only wanted to get the fuck away. I will seriously reconsider anytime I get the urge to help someone in distress. And this is the world we live in. The police, if they do not relate to you in your area, do not feel you have the same rights as everyone else. Assumptions sometimes get you killed. Sooo this ^ I thought I was the only one with a story like that. Some kid threatened to kill me in school (com college) and when I got in his face and told him I'd like to see him try, he ran away and told the teacher I was threatening/shoving him (I didn't touch him) him and the police came and arrested me. I spent 6 hours in jail before I could get bailed out, then after I had to pay for a lawyer they just dropped the charges. All along I thought I handled it well, because in my neighborhood the appropriate response to him threatening to kill me, would be to incapacitate him before he had the chance. If I hadn't blown my nest egg for a lawyer I would of had to plea to some bullshit charge and probably have to put it on all of my future applications. Not a shocker, but after threatening to slit my throat (which I told the officers and had several witnesses they refused to interview) he went on with the rest of his day while I sat in jail and dealt with the humiliation of leaving campus in the back of a squad car. The closest thing I have to a positive story with the police is one time I had a flat and the officer offered to leave his headlights on so we could change the spare. Of course that was after asking us about a dozen questions and then about 2 mins into getting the tire off he just pulls away without saying a word leaving us in the dark on the freeway to change the tire. I have never seen the police help anyone, ever, personally (unless you count letting white people off the hook). I saw a story once of an off duty cop jumping in some river or something to save a dog but that's about it. | ||
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
| ||
Enzymatic
Canada1301 Posts
My dad is a retired cop and detective, and he told me about the choke maneuver they learn a while back (there was something in the news here about a cop using it on someone and the guy sustained brain damage).. I was skeptical of its effectiveness, so I asked him to try it on me just for like a second to see what it feels like. Literally within 1-1.5 seconds I felt like passing out and couldn't even move my hands or legs (it was agonizing). And he told me it doesn't matter how big a guy is, if they're heavier, their weight actually works against them and makes it even worse for them. | ||
True_Spike
Poland3396 Posts
On July 28 2014 22:44 ninazerg wrote: Sometimes, the police just want to kick some ass. This is a video of the police who beat up Kelly Thomas. Thomas was hanging out in front of a nightclub, and the owners didn't like it, but since the sidewalk is public property, they called the police and falsely reported that someone was vandalizing cars in the area. What happened when the police showed up is pretty horrifying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRt4V-BbREI This is painful to watch. "On January 13, 2014, Ramos and Cicinelli were found not guilty of all charges,[11] while the trial for Joe Wolfe was pending.[12] Following the verdict for the two officers, the district attorney's office announced it would not pursue the case against Officer Wolfe.[13]" Just ridiculous. Where I live a scene like that would cause a shitstorm and these "policeman" would rot behind bars, as they should. Police brutality is a systematic problem in the US, every few months a case like this comes to my attention. | ||
Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On August 03 2014 04:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Wow, police in USA sound terrible. On a local level, I've found that the police in UK are mostly a friendly lot and I suspect the same for other countries. Perhaps it's a side effect of the glorification and cultural respect given to the police in USA? Crime in the US is fairly high. Police have to deal with some crazy shit, and you never know when someone might actually be insane enough to pull a weapon on a cop and kill them. Just as a note, playing devil's advocate here. What these men did was awful, and they do deserve to AT LEAST lose their jobs. In any line of work, you will find assholes and jerks that don't care about what "little" problem you are having, especially in the line of work in law enforcement. However, I sympathize with cops overall, because they often put their very lives on the line in dangerous and delicate situations. They aren't perfect people, but if innocent people are in danger, they will do everything they can to save them. Remember that people can say all the nasty things they want about the police, but at the end of the day, when they need help, they don't hesitate to call cops 9/10. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21789 Posts
On August 03 2014 06:19 Cloud9157 wrote: Crime in the US is fairly high. Police have to deal with some crazy shit, and you never know when someone might actually be insane enough to pull a weapon on a cop and kill them. Just as a note, playing devil's advocate here. What these men did was awful, and they do deserve to AT LEAST lose their jobs. In any line of work, you will find assholes and jerks that don't care about what "little" problem you are having, especially in the line of work in law enforcement. However, I sympathize with cops overall, because they often put their very lives on the line in dangerous and delicate situations. They aren't perfect people, but if innocent people are in danger, they will do everything they can to save them. Remember that people can say all the nasty things they want about the police, but at the end of the day, when they need help, they don't hesitate to call cops 9/10. Well you have at least 2/10 right here right now that say otherwise but whatever about that. Minorities don't call the police for help probably 9/10 times (except for when they are calling the police on the police) and the ones that do are almost exclusively women. I'm completely done with the total bullshit excuse that 'cops jobs are dangerous/stressful' for assaulting and killing people. They don't even make the top 10 list of most dangerous jobs and you don't see any of the other people assaulting innocent people and/or killing them and only losing their job for it. If cops can't handle the stress and danger without killing innocent people they shouldn't be cops (as opposed to just forgiving their life ending mistakes). Cops need to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us, not a lower one that means that murdering someone will only cost you your job (maybe). At least in Philly they are re looking at the cases the felonious cops testified in. Of course the people abused by those police officers can never get back what 'the law' stole from them. | ||
Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On August 03 2014 04:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Wow, police in USA sound terrible. On a local level, I've found that the police in UK are mostly a friendly lot and I suspect the same for other countries. Perhaps it's a side effect of the glorification and cultural respect given to the police in USA? They aren't all that bad, it's just that some are, and of course those are the ones that get noticed. We're a big country so it only takes a small percentage of police to give them a bad image. It's also a job with a lot of responsibility that tends to attract people from less educated backgrounds. That's not necessarily a good combination. That is not to say that privileged people are the only ones that should be in law enforcement, but that making the educational requirements higher would probably filter out a lot of the criminals that somehow end up on the "good" side of the law. | ||
Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
They don't even make the top 10 list of most dangerous jobs and you don't see any of the other people assaulting innocent people and/or killing them and only losing their job for it. I'd be interested to see information on this claim. Also comparing them to some other jobs doesn't quite work, since a dangerous job with minimal public interaction is not the same as police, who deal with the public more than most job fields do I'd wager. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21789 Posts
Forty-one percent of all fatal workplace injuries happened in transportation incidents, which include car accidents, overturned vehicles and plane crashes. More than half (58%) of the 1,789 fatal transportation-related incidents occurred on highways, and involved motorized land vehicles. The second-highest cause of worker fatalities was assaults and violent acts, which accounted for 18% of deaths. The preliminary data shows that workplace suicides fell slightly in 2010 to 258 after climbing to a high of 263 the year before. Source You are more likely to be assaulted/killed as a bartender/salesman than you are as a cop. (Both interact with the public as much or more than cops) Bartenders (80 per 1,000) had the highest workplace violence rate of all... (cops were close at 77.8) Keep in mind this is with countless false reports about 'resisting'. (Mr. Garner would of been counted towards the police's statistics of workplace violence against them...)Source You can make all the excuses you want but they should be charged like anyone else would be, I could see a case for manslaughter but the idea that losing their jobs would in any way be sufficient, seems unscrupulous and disgusting in every way. The police are supposed to be here to protect and serve US. Not harass and arrest/assault/murder. If they can't handle the stress and danger of dealing with the public they need to find a different line of work. And I don't mean after they kill someone. The fact that a man was killed for no good reason and people are suggesting that losing their jobs alone would be anywhere near justice blows my mind. | ||
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On August 03 2014 06:38 Chocolate wrote: They aren't all that bad, it's just that some are, and of course those are the ones that get noticed. We're a big country so it only takes a small percentage of police to give them a bad image. It's also a job with a lot of responsibility that tends to attract people from less educated backgrounds. That's not necessarily a good combination. That is not to say that privileged people are the only ones that should be in law enforcement, but that making the educational requirements higher would probably filter out a lot of the criminals that somehow end up on the "good" side of the law. I don't think you can argue that "we" are so much bigger is an excuse when proportionally these police brutality incidence appear to be higher than other countries in the developed world. | ||
Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
| ||
hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On August 03 2014 06:38 Chocolate wrote: They aren't all that bad, it's just that some are, and of course those are the ones that get noticed. We're a big country so it only takes a small percentage of police to give them a bad image. The "few bad apples" argument would be more convincing if those bad apples actually ended up behind bars. Ideally based on testimony from their honest colleagues. | ||
| ||