It is a dictatorship because it is ruled by a dictate, a governing authority with no power sharing.
Distinctions without differences in our discussions.
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
It is a dictatorship because it is ruled by a dictate, a governing authority with no power sharing. Distinctions without differences in our discussions. | ||
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On October 06 2014 13:01 oneofthem wrote: that's why people said it is a communist party dictatorship. I like to think of it as a oligarchy. On October 06 2014 06:52 oneofthem wrote: those were used as examples of economic successful dictatorships and if no intention to extend to china why even bring it up. please repair your argument it is not functioning. state protectionism, if we are to talk in general terms, has costs as well as situational usefulness. in china's case the energy land and (negative)rule of law rent extraction system puts a burdensome cost on actually productive economy. this is a trap that will make it hard for them to develop domestic markrt and grow in higher end industries. I think that China will have a hard time developing past manufacturing because of it's lack of laws protecting entrepreneurs. If China wants to increase GDP past this stage of manufacturing, China needs high tech industries. For these high tech industries to actually invest in research and development, they needs enforcement of laws to protect themselves from copycats. Even then, innovation requires some level of freedom of expression. Unfortunately, allowing that would threaten the Chinese regime. But the high tech industries in Asia are fast followers anyways, the real inventions happen in America. | ||
Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On October 06 2014 00:03 KwarK wrote: Unfortunately the way freedom works is that all the other people in China don't actually get to choose on behalf of the people of Hong Kong, especially when Hong Kong was a separate entity which became a part of China only under the condition of a separate system for them. If being a centralised power with just one system is so important then the Chinese government have the power to give Hong Kong independence and rule the mainland as a centralised block. But if they want to keep Hong Kong then they should honour their previous agreements and respect the wishes of the people. An agreement that never included democracy and which ends in 2047 - when the PRC is granted the rights to discontinue the 'one country, two systems' setup altogether - and which has no binding whatsoever given that the UK has zero ability to enforce it... Have fun with that ultimatum. Fact is, the PRC holds all the cards in the legal department. HK was never guaranteed democracy and its separate system clause only extends for another 33 years. Even were it to gain democracy today, the PRC has the 'right' to take it away when the 'two systems' agreement runs out. HK's only hope is that the PRC collapses/changes greatly by the time that rolls around. | ||
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
anyhow refreshing honesty from hong kong's current fief chief http://qz.com/284352/hong-kong-has-too-many-poor-people-to-allow-direct-elections-leader-says/ china in a nutshell | ||
ref4
2933 Posts
On October 21 2014 21:01 oneofthem wrote: oh but it won't change or collapse. will probably spread its habits to half the world. anyhow refreshing honesty from hong kong's current fief chief http://qz.com/284352/hong-kong-has-too-many-poor-people-to-allow-direct-elections-leader-says/ china in a nutshell same thing with the U.S., our founding father had a profound distrust of an overwhelmingly poor and uneducated voting populace, therefore they created another layer of control in the form of the Electoral College. We vote for our representatives who we **think** will represent our best interests, but in reality, we get betrayed by our representatives 90% of the time. in short, people are bastards. | ||
sensui
Hong Kong19 Posts
I'm one of the HK citizens and I'm one of the supporters of Umbrella Movement(I won't call it Occupy Central as we don't occupy central, we occupy Admiralty, Mong Kok and Causeway Bay. I don't call it Umbrella Revolution as I think it is not a revolution yet, it is just a protest against the government and PRC for not granting HK genuine democracy.) Things keeps changing everyday in this month. I think this is the most eventful month in HK since I was born here. In my opinion, protesters are inconceivably peaceful, polite and tidy. They collect the trash, clean up the street and separate different types of waste for recycle. I cannot understand why some pro-Beijing group people call them rioters. Have they ever seen rioters peaceful like this, not even breaking a single glass, and robbing a shop? Apart from protesters, now I finally recognize the true nature of police I think. They are violent by nature. I have seen footages about the way them clearing out streets and beating unarmed protesters up. As a HK citizen, I am deeply saddened and disappointed because I think the police force, the department which is deemed to protect citizens, is no longer trustworthy. But, true, I have to admit that, we occupy the roads and bring inconveniences to citizens. But this is the last resort we can use. We have tried all other types of peaceful protests, like sit-in, rally for many years but the government just turned a blind eye to all our requests. If we don't do this civil disobedient action, I reckon that the government will still ignore what we want and keep restricting HK's freedom bit by bit, eventually turn HK into another ordinary Chinese city. I cannot deny that we are wrong for blocking the roads, but please understand our motive behind this action, and we have already tried our best to minimize the effects on others. | ||
Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
On October 25 2014 03:59 ref4 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 21 2014 21:01 oneofthem wrote: oh but it won't change or collapse. will probably spread its habits to half the world. anyhow refreshing honesty from hong kong's current fief chief http://qz.com/284352/hong-kong-has-too-many-poor-people-to-allow-direct-elections-leader-says/ china in a nutshell same thing with the U.S., our founding father had a profound distrust of an overwhelmingly poor and uneducated voting populace, therefore they created another layer of control in the form of the Electoral College. We vote for our representatives who we **think** will represent our best interests, but in reality, we get betrayed by our representatives 90% of the time. in short, people are bastards. The electoral college has basically never voted against the results of the election. The real layer of control was restricting voting to white land owners. | ||
tadL
Croatia679 Posts
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Acertos
France852 Posts
On October 26 2014 03:23 tadL wrote: Hongkong has no oil so "we" dont care. Not really... It's more like China is way too powerful so Western countries can't even make threats, they can just comment the events. | ||
ref4
2933 Posts
On October 26 2014 01:14 Bigtony wrote: Show nested quote + On October 25 2014 03:59 ref4 wrote: On October 21 2014 21:01 oneofthem wrote: oh but it won't change or collapse. will probably spread its habits to half the world. anyhow refreshing honesty from hong kong's current fief chief http://qz.com/284352/hong-kong-has-too-many-poor-people-to-allow-direct-elections-leader-says/ china in a nutshell same thing with the U.S., our founding father had a profound distrust of an overwhelmingly poor and uneducated voting populace, therefore they created another layer of control in the form of the Electoral College. We vote for our representatives who we **think** will represent our best interests, but in reality, we get betrayed by our representatives 90% of the time. in short, people are bastards. The electoral college has basically never voted against the results of the election. The real layer of control was restricting voting to white land owners. wait what? There were at least 4 presidents that lost the popular vote but won the electoral college (and thus, the presidency): http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/investing/2012/presidential-candidates-won-popular-vote-lost-election-romney/ ^ is the TLDR of the link below if you don't believe in 3rd party sources http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/scores2.html#2012 Case in point: the most recent and well-known one being Gore vs. Bush where Gore won ~500,000 more popular votes than Bush but Bush beat him by winning 271 votes to Gore's 266. Some states have "winner take all" electoral college (I think Florida is one) so if you win by 50.1% as opposed to your opponent's 49.9% then you take all those delicious, delicious votes. | ||
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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ref4
2933 Posts
On October 29 2014 06:51 oneofthem wrote: the electoral college is not a serious obstacle to democracy in the u.s. But it does go against the wishes of the populace in several well-documented cases by electing a president that the voting majority did not want to be in office. | ||
Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
On October 29 2014 07:10 ref4 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 29 2014 06:51 oneofthem wrote: the electoral college is not a serious obstacle to democracy in the u.s. But it does go against the wishes of the populace in several well-documented cases by electing a president that the voting majority did not want to be in office. The popular vote is not supposed to elect the president, and that has nothing to do with limiting democracy. It has to do with the power of the states. State votes weigh more than the popular vote. | ||
tadL
Croatia679 Posts
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ref4
2933 Posts
On October 31 2014 11:53 tadL wrote: As bush has proven you dont even have to be elected to get president. So why do you even vote? there need to be more than two parties to be a healthy democracy especially when the two parties are just turd sandwich and giant douche | ||
tadL
Croatia679 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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DarkwindHK
Hong Kong343 Posts
The government still have zero response to the protest and keep their "let it die naturally" strategy, waiting for the crowd to feel tired and also try to generate anger from public for the almost 2 months blockage of major roads in Hong Kong. They are quite successful in that regards but I believe even if the police finally clear the roads sometimes this year; it will not be the end of the whole movement. Non of the issues voiced by the protesters are responded to, and our legislative council is also in a non-cooperative movement where no new bills can be passed (except those directly relate to public like hospital funding and public sector salary) There are still some room to negotiate even under the framework set by Beijing, but non of the political parties in Hong Kong have the courage to come up with a compromised proposal. Even the pro-demo parties chicken out as they do not want to upset their middle class voters who "love democracy, but also love peaceful society"....... Its sad to see that so many people still dream that Hong Kong get can anything by peaceful demonstration or "other lawful ways of communications" This is Beijing you are talking about! It's not the UK anymore. I can confidently say that even if we protest, shout and "occupy" a park or some other areas where "normal citizen will not be affected", you can occupy for 30 years and Beijing still will not give a shxt. Imagine, if what Gandi's face is not the UK but Beijing... I guess the result would very very different. Anyways, I hope this whole movement can transform Hong Kong and we can go to universal suffrage sometime in the future. Before the 100th year birthday of CCP if possible.... | ||
3Form
United Kingdom389 Posts
On November 01 2014 08:48 tadL wrote: the amount of partys do not matter in this country. if a not elected person gets president you are not any more in a democracy. and in germany you have more partys and people vote something else and still they got merkel. Depends on your definition of elected and on your definition of democracy, lol. I wonder what Pericles would make of our so-called democracies. | ||
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