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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On September 17 2017 09:37 LegalLord wrote: Macron won because his opponent was Le Pen - but there are many folk who are eager to paint it as a deep, worthy victory for the status quo. No, not really. Macron won by such a wide margin because his opponent was Le Pen. But he probably would have won against anyone in the second round, tbh.
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In other news, switzerland is having votes again this sunday and the big one is: Pensionsystem overhaul Womens retirement age up to 65 from 64 (same as men). Second pillar (occupational) rent down to 6 from 6.8% of your capital. +70.00 Francs for everyone in the first Pillar. +0.6% vat increase to finance it better.
Polls are close and even finding a compromise in the parlament before letting the people vote took several years.
Hard Right and Left politicians are against it, all others support it with mostly mild enthusiasm. The one thing everyone agrees on is just that an overhaul is necessary. The system is still healthy atm but won't be in 20 years if nothing is done.
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On September 20 2017 19:42 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2017 18:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Why has this seemingly got more and more tense it seems? Is this just Madrid trying to get dirt on or something? Spain’s Guardia Civil has searched several Barcelona headquarters of Catalonia’s regional government, a Catalan government spokesman has said.
The operation comes amid mounting tensions as Catalan leaders press ahead with preparations for an independence referendum on 1 October despite Madrid’s ban and a court ruling deeming it illegal.
Officers from the Guardia Civil were searching the Catalan government’s offices of economic affairs, foreign relations and the presidency, the spokesman said.
The operation comes a day after documents related to the independence referendum were seized from the offices of Unipost, a private delivery firm, in the Catalan city of Terrasa.
Pro-separatist parties captured 47.6% of the vote in a September 2015 regional election in Catalonia billed as a proxy vote on independence, giving them a narrow majority of 72 seats in the 135-seat Catalan parliament.
But polls show Catalonia’s roughly 7.5 million residents are divided on independence.
A survey commissioned by the regional government in July showed 49.4% of Catalans were against independence while 41.1% were in favour. More than 70% of Catalans want a legal referendum on independence to settle the issue. Source There's a massive problem in that the politicians in charge are giant idiot assholes. On the one hand, we have Rajoy, who has systematically refused to even consider measures that might assuage Catalan people unhappy about their situation in the union... and he has systematically refused for the last 6 years, so why change now? Especially as he is from the conservative PP, a party that is rather unpopular in Catalunya, so it's not as if he really cares about that community. And on the other hand, we have Puigdemont, a bungling incompetent corrupt asshole, and he is the head of a coaltion with the CUP, who believe that Catalunya should be an independent socialist utopia (and in general, their policy ideas are contradictory and nonsensical). But their principal power base are Catalan independentists, and the more radical, the more likely to vote again for these idiot parties. So that's the setting in which gave rise to this farcical joke of a referendum. It's worth noting that "Junts pel Sí" won the election on a promise that they would declare Catalan independence, and the general discontent has been growing since the start of the crisis in 2008, so this is not some fringe movement, but actually does represent a significant part of the Catalan population (by now... independentists were a fringe movement when I first moved here), mainly due to complete mismanagement by the national government. Anyway, even Puigdemont had the brains to realize unilaterally declaring independence wasn't going to work, so he is trying to save face by claiming the previous referendum was illegitimate and non-representative (both true), so what we need is a proper referendum. Ignoring the fact that this next referendum will have all of the exact same problems as the previous one: - The Spanish Constitution doesn't allow for this type of referendum, and it is thus illegal.
- There is no campaign for remaining in Spain: the generalitat government is campaigning for independence, and the national government is saying it's illegal and to not vote. Insofar as there is a no-camp, it is split between "vote no" and "fuck off with this stupid referendum". So regardless of the outcome, its legitimacy will be immediately questioned.
- It's completely unclear (still! and the referendum is in 2 weeks) who can even vote, because the generalitat doesn't actually have a census. Presumably I would be allowed to vote, as I am a legal resident of Catalunya. However, I am not a Spanish national, and cannot usually vote: but that information is only available at national institutions, who are not cooperating with the whole thing. Not to mention, nobody even knows who is supposed to man the voting booths, and there are definitely no impartial monitors as every organization that would normally do this is not touching the Catalan referendum with a 10-foot pole.
- It's not even clear what anybody is voting for. In this sense, it's very similar to the Brexit vote: remain is very clear in that it simply prolongs the status quo. Leave means... what? And in many ways it's even worse, because unlike Brexit which at least has a legal framework for leaving the EU, there is no such framework for Catalunya. Does voting for leave mean you are in favour of an armed rebellion if that's what it takes? How far does "leave" go?
But obviously this referendum *does* have quite a bit of political support, and the threatening stance of the national government is just throwing gasoline on the fire. Especially as the dismissal of the Catalans' (often valid) complaints is exactly what sparked the whole movement in the first place. And while he cannot possibly do much to assuage the historical and cultural aspects of the movement, those are insignificant to most of the population: the main anger is about the economic and political inequality. I'll just copypaste from Quora, which has a reasonable summary: Show nested quote + Catalonia suffers a tax deficit with respect to the Spanish state of around 8% of its GDP which in 2010 amounted to €16,000,000,000 of Catalan taxes that were paid to Madrid and not reinvested in Catalonia. This makes Catalonia the most highly taxed region in Europe and its schools, health services, roads and infrastructures are suffering in comparison to supposedly poorer regions of Spain.
Furthermore, many decisions taken by central government have negative effects on the local economy. Here are two examples.
Barcelona Airport despite being Spain's busiest airport some months of the year still has no metro connection, a very poor train service and out of date roads whilst Madrid Barajas has train, metro, new roads and there are plans for a high-speed AVE connection. AENA, the central airport authority, also prioritises intercontinental flights to Madrid meaning there are no direct flights from many destinations to Barcelona, which has a detrimental effect on multinational business in Catalonia.
The Port of Barcelona is one of the busiest in Europe and is so profitable it subsidises other Spanish ports that run at a loss. The Port of Barcelona would be even more successful if it had a freight railway line that could take goods north into Europe because ships from Asia that currently dock in Rotterdam could access the Mediterranean via the Suez Canal. Both Catalonia and the EU have been lobbying for the so-called Mediterranean Corridor, which would also benefit Valencia, Cartagena, Malaga and Algeciras, but central government has blocked the Mediterranean Corridor for years because it doesn't pass through Madrid.
So I hope it's clear why the Catalans are upset, and why this is a political trainwreck waiting to happen. Now sit back and watch the wreckage. It's what most Catalans that I know are doing anyway Thanks for this informative post.
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On September 22 2017 01:09 Velr wrote: In other news, switzerland is having votes again this sunday and the big one is: Pensionsystem overhaul Womens retirement age up to 65 from 64 (same as men). Second pillar (occupational) rent down to 6 from 6.8% of your capital. +70.00 Francs for everyone in the first Pillar. +0.6% vat increase to finance it better.
Polls are close and even finding a compromise in the parlament before letting the people vote took several years.
Hard Right and Left politicians are against it, all others support it with mostly mild enthusiasm. The one thing everyone agrees on is just that an overhaul is necessary. The system is still healthy atm but won't be in 20 years if nothing is done.
Women have a lower retirement age than men? What?
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We are gentlemen here (hopefully soon were). We also didn't let them vote longer than nearly everyone else....
Basically it was like this since forever and to change it you need to win the popular vote. Womens voting rights came before similar retirement ages, so go figure . Switzerland also way longer and often still has the classical one income family, thru all income brackets. In its core Switzerland is conservative, in some civil liberzies cases we sometimes jump ahead by accident (recognised homosexual unions) and then fall way baxk again (still no gay marriage).
Its cultural . Stuff works diffrent if you need to get a popular vote on damn near everything, even if its just that plenty of stuff just doesn't came up to a vote for ages because the people that support X can't be bothered to start a referendum (because actual law has gotten lenient anyway) and there is still plenty of conservative people to shut stuff down in an actual vote.
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How do referendums work in Switzerland? Do you not get it "wrong" because of idiots? What do you do then? Recent example - Brexit.
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Now that you mention it, it does sound a lot like him.
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This seems so confusing to me. Especially given the direction considering that women live longer than men. I mean, I can recognise that men often tie a great deal of their identity to their jobs and tend to stay to an older age, but for it to be official policy? Wauw.
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It's an old idea and the justification back then was that a woman in a traditional family has two full time jobs - her normal job and her housewife job, therefore she should be allowed (allowed, not forced, but that's a different problem) to retire earlier. There were other reasons too but I think that was the most important one. I agree that it makes no sense in modern societies.
Fun fact: Our Constitutional Court delivered a judgment deeming the different retirement age for men and women constitutional in 2010, and all three judges who disagreed with the judgement were female.
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Curious what you're voting tomorrow Velr (nevermind I should have read your posts it's pretty clear)
Ended up with double yes after much consideration, still not sure I like my choice. Every argument I've seen for either side was terrible, this typically doesn't happen to me =)
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On September 24 2017 01:02 Nebuchad wrote: Curious what you're voting tomorrow Velr (nevermind I should have read your posts it's pretty clear)
Ended up with double yes after much consideration, still not sure I like my choice. Every argument I've seen for either side was terrible, this typically doesn't happen to me =) Wait, aren't you the world's biggest Bernie bro? How can you be in favour of raising the retirement age for anybody?
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On September 24 2017 03:28 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 01:02 Nebuchad wrote: Curious what you're voting tomorrow Velr (nevermind I should have read your posts it's pretty clear)
Ended up with double yes after much consideration, still not sure I like my choice. Every argument I've seen for either side was terrible, this typically doesn't happen to me =) Wait, aren't you the world's biggest Bernie bro? How can you be in favour of raising the retirement age for anybody?
There's a good chance that the rightwing now uses this to push retirement at 67 and I don't know if I can trust the swiss people with that decision. That being said I think there's a good chance they'll go against that one too, I'm not exactly worried by the result of today.
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Ok, so yesterday, for Barcelona's La Merce festivities (celebration of the patron saint, and about 4 days of revelry), we went to a concert of Catalan music, and the local organizers took advantage of the break between band to really whip up the crowd in favour of independence. It was propaganda at its finest.
Meanwhile, the national government is also fanning the flames. They took control of the regional police force:
The Spanish authorities have moved to place all policing in Catalonia under central control to stop the disputed independence referendum on 1 October.
Col Diego Pérez de los Cobos has been put in charge of Catalan and central police forces in the autonomous region.
Madrid said the order was aimed at achieving better co-ordination. But the Catalan authorities rejected it, saying it was an unacceptable interference.
Thousands of extra police are being sent to the region to block the vote.
...
Joaquim Forn, Catalonia's interior chief, said the local government did not "accept this interference" in the regional police, known officially as the Mossos d'Esquadra.
"The Catalan government does not accept this intervention of the state because it does not take into account all the legal framework that we have in order to take care of the security in Catalonia," he said.
"The leader of the Catalan police will not hand over his functions," he said.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41373977
But so far things are progressing peacefully. The protests have been peaceful. But things are heading up and you can feel the tension and uncertainty about where this is going.
Oh, linked through from the news above, the BBC has a pretty good overview of what and why is happening about Catalan independence:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29478415
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CDU: 33,5 SPD: 21 AfD: 13 FDP: 10 Greens: 9 Left: 9
Looks like quite a defeat for the reigning old parties, also no CDU/FDP possible which is quite a relief.
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Germany3128 Posts
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ARD got CDU and SPD even weaker and AFD at 13.5 as well as FPD at 10.5 atm. Yes quite the defeat, but I'm not happy about the AFD number.
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Germany3128 Posts
Gauland: "Wir werden uns unser Land und unser Volk zurückholen" I have to vomit
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On September 25 2017 01:07 HolydaKing wrote: ARD got CDU and SPD even weaker and AFD at 13.5 as well as FPD at 10.5 atm. Yes quite the defeat, but I'm not happy about the AFD number. Consider yourself happy for now, in a few years you may regret the blessed times where the far-right scored "only" less than 15%...
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In the last decades the right win parties, if you disrespect the center right, will usually fight internally and have scandal after scandal until they're no longer relevant of drastically change face.
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