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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 42

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farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States14687 Posts
June 09 2017 10:02 GMT
#821
Yeah i would discourage BW picks for new players because a good BW doesn't really play like anyone else and is fairly niche in style.
Success tells bigger and better lies than failure ever will.
disformation
Profile Joined July 2009
Germany7486 Posts
June 09 2017 10:54 GMT
#822
Aight it is question time.
Haven't played hots in ages. Started playing again last week. Apparently just missed a promotion to get a ton of heroes for free. fml.
only role i feel i can play decently well is warrior. support is fairly wonky, but i have a bunch of good ones (malf, uther, rehgar) unlocked to learn.
but i am really really really bad as assassin (think i have problems with both positioning and targeting) and there are ten billion assassins in the game right now. good assassins to learn/start with? only have unlocked valla and raynor.
any tips for hanamura and battlefields of eternity? my winrate is shit on both maps and I have no idea why.
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4459 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-09 12:03:50
June 09 2017 11:35 GMT
#823
I would recommend starting out with Valla. Raynor is kind of a trap-hero in that he seems easy, but he has no escape and frankly does not offer all that much. Further, his gameplay is very "linear" and thus the only skills you can really transpose to other assassins from him are 1) stutterstep (and frankly he is a terrible one to learn how to do that with due to high rate of fire) 2) positioning (which again is hard to transpose as his range is superior to all others and yet you still have to position much safer than most other assassins as you have no escape).

Falstad is another very good auto-attack focused assassin but his decision-making is slightly more complex as you really want to levy that global ability to soak XP (and his ults are both harder to utilize properly than Vallas). Tychus and Greymane are also good options, but Greymane is likely one of the harder assassins to really master.

Hanamura: I have yet to experience anyone play the map correctly. Theoretically you want to push hard while contesting payloads so you don't fall too much behind (i.e. allow for one active, but when #2 spawns you should be about to push in #1 after having done as much structural damage as possible) What usually happens is that first payload spawns and everyone starts brawling around the payloads in some sort of 4-1 or 3-2 split. At some point one team kills 2+ members of the other and can then take a fort which catapults them to victory, but it seems pretty random. You'll want to draft heroes that peak in the early/mid-game and then snowball an advantage there to victory. Hitting level 20 should be rare (so don't bother with Nazeebo). Camps give a lot of XP but sentry-tower/healing camps are the only two camps really worth it for the item - bribe is incredibly strong here to snipe the opponents heal camp.

BoE: Get a composition with good poke and good auto-attack/rush potential on the immortal. Never (well almost never) fight on the first immortal, just rush it down and let the chips fall as they may. For the 2.nd immortal and onwards it generally pays off to get a pick or two before damaging immortal but it depends on positioning of immortals. Be sure to have one soaking the non-immortal lane when the first 1-2 immortals push lanes. Cap hard-camps (shaman+dogs) when the immortals are about to land (say 10-15 seconds out). I think that is just about it for the map specifics here.
disformation
Profile Joined July 2009
Germany7486 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-09 13:09:42
June 09 2017 13:03 GMT
#824
On June 09 2017 20:35 Ghostcom wrote:
I would recommend starting out with Valla. Raynor is kind of a trap-hero in that he seems easy, but he has no escape and frankly does not offer all that much. Further, his gameplay is very "linear" and thus the only skills you can really transpose to other assassins from him are 1) stutterstep (and frankly he is a terrible one to learn how to do that with due to high rate of fire) 2) positioning (which again is hard to transpose as his range is superior to all others and yet you still have to position much safer than most other assassins as you have no escape).

Falstad is another very good auto-attack focused assassin but his decision-making is slightly more complex as you really want to levy that global ability to soak XP (and his ults are both harder to utilize properly than Vallas). Tychus and Greymane are also good options, but Greymane is likely one of the harder assassins to really master.

Hanamura: I have yet to experience anyone play the map correctly. Theoretically you want to push hard while contesting payloads so you don't fall too much behind (i.e. allow for one active, but when #2 spawns you should be about to push in #1 after having done as much structural damage as possible) What usually happens is that first payload spawns and everyone starts brawling around the payloads in some sort of 4-1 or 3-2 split. At some point one team kills 2+ members of the other and can then take a fort which catapults them to victory, but it seems pretty random. You'll want to draft heroes that peak in the early/mid-game and then snowball an advantage there to victory. Hitting level 20 should be rare (so don't bother with Nazeebo). Camps give a lot of XP but sentry-tower/healing camps are the only two camps really worth it for the item - bribe is incredibly strong here to snipe the opponents heal camp.

BoE: Get a composition with good poke and good auto-attack/rush potential on the immortal. Never (well almost never) fight on the first immortal, just rush it down and let the chips fall as they may. For the 2.nd immortal and onwards it generally pays off to get a pick or two before damaging immortal but it depends on positioning of immortals. Be sure to have one soaking the non-immortal lane when the first 1-2 immortals push lanes. Cap hard-camps (shaman+dogs) when the immortals are about to land (say 10-15 seconds out). I think that is just about it for the map specifics here.

cool. thanks a lot.
for starting ranked you still want to have at least 3 heroes you can play acceptably per role? well. actually i think it is probably okay to skip specialists. though i guess it helps if you have one or two.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
42382 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-09 13:11:52
June 09 2017 13:10 GMT
#825
On June 09 2017 22:03 disformation wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2017 20:35 Ghostcom wrote:
I would recommend starting out with Valla. Raynor is kind of a trap-hero in that he seems easy, but he has no escape and frankly does not offer all that much. Further, his gameplay is very "linear" and thus the only skills you can really transpose to other assassins from him are 1) stutterstep (and frankly he is a terrible one to learn how to do that with due to high rate of fire) 2) positioning (which again is hard to transpose as his range is superior to all others and yet you still have to position much safer than most other assassins as you have no escape).

Falstad is another very good auto-attack focused assassin but his decision-making is slightly more complex as you really want to levy that global ability to soak XP (and his ults are both harder to utilize properly than Vallas). Tychus and Greymane are also good options, but Greymane is likely one of the harder assassins to really master.

Hanamura: I have yet to experience anyone play the map correctly. Theoretically you want to push hard while contesting payloads so you don't fall too much behind (i.e. allow for one active, but when #2 spawns you should be about to push in #1 after having done as much structural damage as possible) What usually happens is that first payload spawns and everyone starts brawling around the payloads in some sort of 4-1 or 3-2 split. At some point one team kills 2+ members of the other and can then take a fort which catapults them to victory, but it seems pretty random. You'll want to draft heroes that peak in the early/mid-game and then snowball an advantage there to victory. Hitting level 20 should be rare (so don't bother with Nazeebo). Camps give a lot of XP but sentry-tower/healing camps are the only two camps really worth it for the item - bribe is incredibly strong here to snipe the opponents heal camp.

BoE: Get a composition with good poke and good auto-attack/rush potential on the immortal. Never (well almost never) fight on the first immortal, just rush it down and let the chips fall as they may. For the 2.nd immortal and onwards it generally pays off to get a pick or two before damaging immortal but it depends on positioning of immortals. Be sure to have one soaking the non-immortal lane when the first 1-2 immortals push lanes. Cap hard-camps (shaman+dogs) when the immortals are about to land (say 10-15 seconds out). I think that is just about it for the map specifics here.

cool. thanks a lot.
for starting ranked you still want to have about 3 good heroes you can play acceptably per role? well. actually i think it is probably okay to skip specialists. though i guess it helps if you have one or two.

"specialist" is an extremely misleading description anyway, they are either DPS (Nazeebo, Hammer, Medivh kinda, even Probius) or split pushers/cheesers (vikings, abathur, gaz, zag, azmo, murky). The 2nd subgroup being almost always matched by Falstad/Dehaka in PvE and outdone by them in teamfights.
I'd actually recommend Li-Ming/Jaina/Kael/Nazeebo for DPS as they are all pretty close to monkey level skill floor.
BLΛƆKPIИK in your area | Rosé | Yuna Kim || soO | Dark | Rogue | TY | Maru | Zest | herO || Jaedong | Larva | Rain || What power would hell have if those imprisoned here would not be able to dream of heaven? | There is no God and we are his prophets
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4459 Posts
June 09 2017 13:13 GMT
#826
I recommend 2 auto-attackers, 2 mages, 2 supports (not tyrande/tassadar), and 2 tanks. That way you can fill all needed roles for a good draft regardless of what the opposition and your team drafts. Ideally you would want some bruisers in there as well (Sonya/artanis/thrall) but typically those spots are gladly filled by others or can be substituted either tanks or assassins.
disformation
Profile Joined July 2009
Germany7486 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-09 13:29:49
June 09 2017 13:27 GMT
#827
i am more than good on tanks/bruisers. got jo/diablo/sonya/leoric/anub. also got muradin and etc, but i think the others i mentioned are better. need to practice leroic's heroics and ghost walk a bit though. warrior is my fav. role and the one where i think i am not shit tier in. maybe i should even focus on only a few here to get even gudder.
support i have tassadar/lili/malfurion/uther/rehgar. malf/uther/rehgar should be good here.

only big problem for me is assassin. by nature it is the role i think is willingly filled in by other ppl the most, but I dont want to be shit tier and/or have no heroes for that if I have to play that part. probably will just try to play a bunch of valla games this we. kael'thas is f2p atm so i think i will give him a try too.
edit: practicing assa a bit will probably also improve my overall play.
edit2: played artanis to lvl5 last few days and he was fun as well. probably not going to unlock him soonish, cause I already have tons of warriors already. =D
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4459 Posts
June 09 2017 13:49 GMT
#828
Playing assassins will definitely make you a much better tank as well. You become much more aware of the capabilities of the specific heroes and when it is good to engage when playing tanks (i.e. don't do it right after the Kael'thas on your team just missed his gravity lapse).
Thax
Profile Joined July 2014
Belgium1057 Posts
June 09 2017 15:24 GMT
#829
On June 09 2017 19:54 disformation wrote:
Aight it is question time.
Haven't played hots in ages. Started playing again last week. Apparently just missed a promotion to get a ton of heroes for free. fml.
only role i feel i can play decently well is warrior. support is fairly wonky, but i have a bunch of good ones (malf, uther, rehgar) unlocked to learn.
but i am really really really bad as assassin (think i have problems with both positioning and targeting) and there are ten billion assassins in the game right now. good assassins to learn/start with? only have unlocked valla and raynor.
any tips for hanamura and battlefields of eternity? my winrate is shit on both maps and I have no idea why.

I'm a warrior main myself. I'm a bad assassin player too because my mechanics suck, and get worse under pressure. Anyway I have trained myself in Vala (basically always a solid pick) Falstad (mechanically similar to Vala + global) and Li-Ming and Chromie as mages. For supps I have Rehgar (solid all rounder), Uther (Lets me play as a healing off-tank) and Lucio (new addition). Zagara was my first main when I starter and I still take her out every now and then.

For Hanamura the proper strategy is actually to 5 man push 1 lane, get a massive xp lead due to building xp and Ignore the payloads till you pushed down a keep. This requires some proper drafting and coordination though, so it really only is for 5 man teams.
What I usually do, and I have a 70-80% winrate with this, is take one strong pusher which you park in a lane, and then a strong 4 man midgame teamfight comp in the other lane. Bring in your own payload with as many of your 4 man as you need, but try to always keep the 4 man lane soaked. Just ignore the enemy payload for now. Get picks if you can on rotations but mainly just focus on getting to 10 first. Once you get 10 force a team fight or get picks rotating as 4, try to stagger their deaths, this should allow your pusher to get a fort, help them with the 4 man if needed. Once you have a fort you basically won. All you have to do is trade payloads now, you'll always win the race. Just make sure to not get greedy and don't take needless fights and don't allow one of your own to get isolated and picked off.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
42382 Posts
June 09 2017 16:40 GMT
#830
Ok here's one from me as I'm pretty frustrated:

How do you lane as Sonya vs Leoric? Are you supposed to win that matchup? I can't seem to.
How do you lane as Dehaka vs Sonya and Sonya vs Dehaka? I've heard different opinions about that one. Is Dehaka supposed to hit tongue on every whirlwind to have a chance or?
BLΛƆKPIИK in your area | Rosé | Yuna Kim || soO | Dark | Rogue | TY | Maru | Zest | herO || Jaedong | Larva | Rain || What power would hell have if those imprisoned here would not be able to dream of heaven? | There is no God and we are his prophets
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4459 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-09 17:56:43
June 09 2017 17:52 GMT
#831
You should tie or win Sonya Vs Leo I think. Slam on CD. Ensure to ww for as much healing as possible. Don't bother running away during drain life unless you are already at the edge - just ww through it. Dodge the swing and you win in my experience.

Sonya Vs dehaka: stay out of dehakas aoe and then same recipe as for leo. Careful not to get stunned out of we - you can endure once or twice in a row but after that you kinda need a full ww to heal. Dehakas: land tongues, ensure AoE dmg connects as well. I think your goal should be to tie.

This is based on masters - haven't made it to grandmaster.
Aiobhill
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany260 Posts
June 10 2017 09:01 GMT
#832
On June 09 2017 18:35 Ghostcom wrote:
It's a question of your overall team-comp rather than a single pick which is going to allow you to counter such a draft. However if you are last pick and your comp still lacks a tank I would definitely have gone with dehaka.

Your overall team-comp should probably have at least one global (falstad/dehaka) in response to such a draft. Further, good solo laners which can pressure them out of lanes (sonya, gul'dan, valla, greymane) should all be a priority. Arthas as 2.nd tank to Sonya would be ideal for the shrines (or you since they have no real frontline you could sneak in a kerrigan) to ensure only as little time as possible for them to split push. Pretty much any healer should be fine though if you can land Gul'dan Ariel should be a priority. Uther and Rehgar would also be good. BW is an option but not one I'm personally too fond of.

Regardless the game is going to feel a bit like whack-a-mole but overall your laning and 3-man push should be strong enough to give you the initiative during laning stages and ensure shrines.


Cheers. While I felt their draft was absolutely not planned that way, their coordination during most of the game was quite okay - within the confines of Gold 5. When we sent 3 men to a shrine, they would bully us out, when we sent 4, they would just concede and pressure lanes instead. And an Azmodan left alone kills structures not much slower than an infernal.
Axslav - apm70maphacks - tak3r
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4289 Posts
June 11 2017 15:17 GMT
#833
On June 10 2017 01:40 Ej_ wrote:
Ok here's one from me as I'm pretty frustrated:

How do you lane as Sonya vs Leoric? Are you supposed to win that matchup? I can't seem to.
How do you lane as Dehaka vs Sonya and Sonya vs Dehaka? I've heard different opinions about that one. Is Dehaka supposed to hit tongue on every whirlwind to have a chance or?


Sonya vs Leoric/Dehaka is pretty much a tie, but not a bad lane for her. You can just clear the lane repeatedly with whirlwind, only difference is that you have be careful of Drag against Dehaka. Everything for Sonya comes down to landing spears; if you land them and don't take too much unnecessary damage, you generally win the lane.
Strategy
ThomasjServo
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
15237 Posts
July 02 2017 16:41 GMT
#834
What is your go to level 4 on rehgar?
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4459 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-02 16:52:14
July 02 2017 16:51 GMT
#835
Kinda depends on map. Most of them feral heart to ensure a full mana pool before fights. Not sure if it is "correct", but works out well for me.

Totem being my second choice.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
42382 Posts
July 02 2017 17:00 GMT
#836
totem is mathematically better iirc, saves more mana than the Q or Z talents at 4
BLΛƆKPIИK in your area | Rosé | Yuna Kim || soO | Dark | Rogue | TY | Maru | Zest | herO || Jaedong | Larva | Rain || What power would hell have if those imprisoned here would not be able to dream of heaven? | There is no God and we are his prophets
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4459 Posts
July 02 2017 17:48 GMT
#837
On July 03 2017 02:00 Ej_ wrote:
totem is mathematically better iirc, saves more mana than the Q or Z talents at 4


Provided the enemy doesn't simply whack it down.
Talaris
Profile Joined March 2011
Switzerland746 Posts
July 02 2017 21:22 GMT
#838
For me, there is no always-go-to-talent, depends on my role / maps /opponents

Totem on maps when there are prolonged pokes (Inf Shrines, battlefield), especially with 2+ frontline - or where I have to do/help camps alot. It saves ~1 Chain heal every 30 seconds when hitting 2 ppl for full duration, so about 2,2 mana/sec over 30secs. More when 3-4 ppl (and does not need your CD of chainheal), less when it gets killed or your teammates actively try to avoid the zone (aka gold/plat )

Feral heart on larger maps where you travel alot or in comps where you can't safely put totem (like 3 melee and Chromie who should not need it), as it's ~2,5 mana/sec in the midgame, where you need it most. Up to 3.5 mana/s lategame (where you dont need that much mana reg anymore though), so it's the safest to "always use" talent.

Theres also a Chainheal sustain build vs poison heavy opponents (lunara, malthael, zeebo) which is using tidal waves at 13, so I pick reduced mana cost at lvl 4. Boils down to about 80 mana saved every 30 seconds, so ~2,7/s, which is huge especially early to midgame.
-= Jaedong // HerO // Welmu // Unholy Alliance =- DRG: " if you prefer the money then there's nothing wrong with going with KeSPA."
ThomasjServo
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
15237 Posts
July 05 2017 13:17 GMT
#839
Interesting things to consider, I've just been finding that I suck at supporting and I want to be able to run more than Li Li, Malfurion and medic.

Basically, I want to be at a spot where I can have fun and do well with Supports and Tanks.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States14687 Posts
July 05 2017 13:25 GMT
#840
Play moar Brightwing
Success tells bigger and better lies than failure ever will.
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