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On February 20 2017 05:47 karazax wrote: Murky takes way too many resources to kill relative to what he gains you when you do it. I don't really consider him weaker in lane at all.
I agree that trying to kill murky may not be worth it - but just by killing the pufferfish you relieve basically all the pressure Murky has on lane. Killing the pufferfish is more important than killing murky. And his pufferfish is easier to kill now.
People are also harping on his buffs, when he also got nerfed in key areas. 60% increase in the Egg Respawn time tones down his teamfight pressure, plus removal of bubble machine (I'm unsure whether or not all his survivability buffs outweigh the loss of survivability from bubble machine).
I'm assuming nerfs will be coming, but are probably gonna be smaller than you think. Nerf to just Fishy Deal is likely enough to make him less of a terror in Bronze league, and that might be enough for the next patch.
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I find Murky very underwhelming in fact. I used to play him a lot, and I cannot win a single QM / UD game with him. And if I play vs Murky in ranked I usually win. I understand I'm not exactly playing at pro level (high plat / low dia) but he feels you just rely too much on your team. With Varian I have no trouble carrying. With Murky it feels I have 0 way of winning if my team's bad.
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I absolutely agree that focusing on the pufferfish- which shouldn't be hard to do- completely gets rid of Murky's laning potential *and* neutralizes his potentially amazing bribe level 1 talent. I've been playing as Murky for fun over the past few days, and the teams who send 1 or more people to chase me around are wasting their time and resources, whereas just taking a generally good laner to kill every pufferfish + slowly clear waves/ push lane easily dominates and forces me to rotate lanes. If my opponents regularly ignore my pufferfish/ don't know how to play against Murky, then I'm generally winning the lane *and* taking 10 bribed camps over the course of the game for free.
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On February 20 2017 21:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I absolutely agree that focusing on the pufferfish- which shouldn't be hard to do- completely gets rid of Murky's laning potential *and* neutralizes his potentially amazing bribe level 1 talent. I've been playing as Murky for fun over the past few days, and the teams who send 1 or more people to chase me around are wasting their time and resources, whereas just taking a generally good laner to kill every pufferfish + slowly clear waves/ push lane easily dominates and forces me to rotate lanes. If my opponents regularly ignore my pufferfish/ don't know how to play against Murky, then I'm generally winning the lane *and* taking 10 bribed camps over the course of the game for free. I actually think that bribe talent is quite useless against competent opponent as he just won't let you get kills with Pufferfish, but I also think that majority of Murky players also think that a lot of his power comes from Pufferfish which is wrong, it comes from Slime and getting Slime talents at level 4 and 7 seems mandatory to me(Murky is my second most played hero). People also don't seem to understand the importance of finishing level 4 Slime quest talent as soon as possible, you should be focusing on that while pushing the lane and after the first half of the quest is done you don't even need Puffer anymore.
He is still mediocre in the early game(got HP buff but Puffer is easier to kill) but after level 13 he gets really hard to kill and after level 16 he becomes a monster. At level 20 he is just too good and you can hardly lose unless you are way behind the enemy team.
He is definitely too good right now and will probably get nerfed. His damage is way too good and you shouldn't be able to kill people that easily after level 16 while also having good survivability and respawn time of 8 seconds. He is #1 on hotslogs for a reason.
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Slime build lets you use pufferfish to bait heroes into range to slime them, or get free puffer value if they don't. Pre-13, Murky isn't that bad to deal with, but post 13 he is hard to kill and is starting to do significant damage. There are lots of bad/inexperienced Murky players that make the hero look less effective than he can be. Most pro streamers I have watched seem to consider Murky OP at the moment. Rejuv bubble with Big Tuna is insanely difficult to kill, or fish tank with Making Inky. Of course being OP doesn't mean unbeatable.
Three of the top win % builds currently: Build 1
- 1 Fishy Deal
- 4 Slime Time
- 7 Time to Krill
- 10 March of the Merlocs
- 13 Fish Tank
- 16 Toxic Buildup
- 20 Making Inky
build 2
- 1 Egg Hunt
- 4 Slime Time
- 7 Black Lagoon
- 10 March of the Merlocs
- 13 Rejuvenating Bubble
- 16 Fish Oil
- 20 Big Tuna or Making Inky
Build 3
- 1 Fishy Deal
- 4 Living the Dream
- 7 Time to Krill
- 10 March of the Merlocs
- 13 Rejuvenating Bubble
- 16 Toxic Buildup
- 20 Big Tuna
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You can kill his fish with abilities now which makes Murky a joke in lane. Although his 35% slow if he finishes quest is super annoying and march is a bit better. If you let Murky lane alone then it can get out of control but that was how he worked before the rework too, he's simply an even worse laner than before and if you play properly vs him then you should be ahead in levels so his late game won't be able to kick in anyway.
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aww i found murky first bans funny. Usually gave draft wins to the non murky banning team. He owns quicklplay, so thats probably his doom. Quicklplay the reason why heroes with high situational awarness needs will never be strong. (unless they are super hard to play)
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On February 22 2017 22:50 FeyFey wrote: aww i found murky first bans funny. Usually gave draft wins to the non murky banning team. He owns quicklplay, so thats probably his doom. Quicklplay the reason why heroes with high situational awarness needs will never be strong. (unless they are super hard to play) he's also sitting at >57% WR on HotsLogs with >50% popularity, this is Li-ming/Rehgar levels of imbalance
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Oh wow didnt expected that, considering my experience. Then again I read changelogs and adapt to something that translates into "destroys anythings that has to go into melee range". Especially when its a hero everyone will want to play. And pick heroes that can speed up teammates to not get slimed xD.
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In my experience, Lúcio both lightly counters Murky and synergizes with him (Lúcio synergizes with anyone, really). Both feel pretty imba right now, and I'd worry that if only one of them were nerfed the other would rise even higher.
Quick Match is a wild place these days, since both teams can have both heroes!
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Only had enemy Lucio in 3 out of 20 QM games. Is he not fun to play or whats up wih that?
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You should ask that those 17 other opponents
Also, hes still a healer, normally I get 5 assassin/specialists with the occasional random tank/bruiser/support thrown in when playing QM, so 3/20 sounds alot
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11 of 20 were support games. 3 enemy Lucio and one on my side. I can't remember exactly but I hink Auriel was way more prominent but maybe its just my low sample size. He has a little over 30% popularity in QM on hotslogs. I have no idea what oher heroes got around release.
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He's a support, he is 100 times funnier to play in Overwatch, there is an event that wants you to play warcraft heroes. Murky change. Lots of highly wanted Warcraft/Assassins before, where people dropped 15k gold on. So alot of reasons to not get Lucio for 15k. His unique movement might also be a reason why people only play him a few games.
And you don't want to play low damage supports in QM, because of the high double support+ tanks chance.
Starting to enjoy Valeera \o/ . She got alot of talent diversity though, so gotta play her alot before she is hit by the rework bat, that will add 1 always works talent to every level. And she does pretty good vs Murky, so a save Melee choice for Quickplay currently. (Especially if you like playing Solo Tank Valeera )
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Playing Samuro for the first time, and wow. It's like other heroes make big plays where they can feel badass for that one play, but Samuro is just badass all the time.
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the new carbot animation is funny, I feel for anyone who has that chromie on your team. I had one today in the brawl. Game afterwards I got Lili though so I was running around holding Q and no one died.
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Balance patch released today
Tychus + Show Spoiler + Stats
Basic Attack Range decreased from 5.5 to 4.5
Abilities
Overkill (Q) Cooldown decreased from 15 to 13 seconds Mana Cost reduced from 75 to 65 Commandeer Odin (R) Attack range increased from 8.8 to 9
Talents
Level 1 Press the Advantage (E) Range increase reduced from 1.9 to 1.5 Duration reduced from 4 to 3 seconds Level 13 That’s the Stuff! (Trait) New functionality: Minigun heals Tychus for 100% of the bonus damage done to Heroes after the ability ends. This will show a Heal preview during Minigun's duration that will heal Tychus as soon as the ability goes on cooldown. Neosteel Coating (Active) Increased Spell Armor from 50 to 75
Developer Comments: Tychus has proven to be just as good at Assassin-busting as he is at Tank-busting, which was never our intention. This has made drafting him a good choice against just about any enemy team composition, which has led him to be one of the highest contested Heroes in HGC. We would like to see him gain the most value from sticking to front-line targets so we are lowering his Basic Attack range to limit his options while allowing other ranged Heroes to trade a bit more favorably against him.
Varian + Show Spoiler + Abilities Charge (E) Cooldown reduced from 14 to 12 seconds Colossus Smash (R) Damage bonus increased from 75 to 100% Twin Blades of Fury (R) Basic Attack damage penalty reduced from 25 to 20%
Talents
Level 4 Warbringer (E) Now increases Charge's slow from 75% to 85%, instead of adding a stun Level 13 Juggernaut (E) Damage reduced from 6% to 5% of the target's maximum Health.
Developer Comments: The frequency and power of a ranged point click stun was too powerful from Warbringer. While it may have been “balanced” in terms of winrate, its potency wasn’t healthy or fun for opponents. It didn’t offer many options for opponents that were stunned and then Taunted for over 2 seconds, greatly increasing the reliability of other abilities (like Sulfuras Smash). By making Warbringer a massive slow instead of a stun, it allows enemies to use abilities to defend themselves (or forces a Varian to use Taunt early, greatly reducing the duration of his opening crowd control). We’ve shifted more of the power of Warbringer over into the mobility aspect to compensate (since Warbringer makes Charge a 6 second cooldown now). The other part of these changes is providing some buffs to the Assassin focused Heroics to bring them up to par with Taunt, so that Varian can frequently opt into any of the Heroic choices to really fulfill the multi-class Hero fantasy that makes him unique.
Murky + Show Spoiler + Stats
Murky Base Maximum Health reduced from 761 to 730 Base Health Regeneration reduced from 30.43 to 29.20
Abilities
Slime (Q) Slow duration reduced from 8 to 6 seconds Slime slow amount reduced from 25 to 20% March of the Murlocs (R) Cooldown increased from 80 to 110 seconds
Talents
Level 1 Fishy Deal (Active) Number of Bribe stacks needed to bribe a Mercenary increased from 7 to 8 Maximum stacks increased from 30 to 32 Egg Hunt (Trait) Vision range of Fake Eggs reduced by 1 Level 4 Slime Time (Q) Slow reduced from 35 to 30% Level 7 Slippery When Wet (E) Movement Speed bonus increased from 35 to 40% Time to Krill (Passive) Slow reduced from 8 to 7% Level 13 Rejuvenating Bubble (E) Healing reduced from 50 to 40% of maximum Health
Developer Comments: Murky slimed his way back to the top of the Nexus, and we’re all still cleaning the gunk out of our shoes as a result. His release pushed him much further than intended, so we’re targeting a series of nerfs at some of the frustrating aspects of the Hero. Overall, his effectiveness will be less reliable, and his ability to slow and zone opponents will be less powerful. Nerrrrfgggle Mrrggl.
Lúcio + Show Spoiler + Abilities
Amp it Up (E) Healing Boost reduced from 16.5 to 15.5
Talents
Level 4 Boombox (Active) Duration increased from 20 to 30 seconds Party Mix (W) Bonus range decreased from 25 to 20%
Malfurion + Show Spoiler + Abilities
Entangling Roots (E) Root duration reduced from 1.5 to 1.25 seconds Twilight Dream (R) Mana regen reduced from 1.5 to 1.25
Talents
Level 16
Tenacious Roots (E) Root duration bonus decreased from .5 to .25 seconds
Developer Comments: Malfurion has seen a lot of play at all levels to the point that he is crowding out other Support heroes. While we like his established place in the Nexus, his Entangling Roots is much stronger for its consistency relative to the CC that other heroes in the game provide, particularly when he takes the Tenacious Roots talent. We’re also happy to see that Twilight Dream is so highly valued considering it’s against a strong Healing heroic, but wanted to lower some of the hidden power that it provides in its Mana regeneration to make the decision of which Heroic to take a little more thoughtful.
Tassadar + Show Spoiler + Talents
Level 1 Khaydarin Resonance (Q) New functionality: Quest: Regeneration Globes grant an additional 50% Mana. Reward(1): After collecting 15 Globes, increase the value of Plasma Shield by 15%. Reward(2): After collecting 30 Globes, increase the duration of Plasma Shield by 100%.
Developer Comments: One of our major goals with Hero reworks is attempting to keep as many of the current builds and playstyles that exist for a Hero, trim out older or unhealthy ones, and hopefully open doors for new ones to emerge. When shifting the old Khala’s Embrace to a questing talent (Khaydarin Resonance), we had hoped to lock the immense power that it brought behind a barrier that was difficult to overcome on a lot of maps. In theory, this would make it feel rewarding to take on certain maps, but rarely the most powerful choice. Instead, we found that locking this kind of potential behind an extremely difficult Globe-collecting talent made for a more frustrating experience than a fun one. When taking a step back and considering our options, we felt it best to remove the permanent shielding capabilities and replace it with a less-powerful questing talent.
Rexxar + Show Spoiler + Now has a visual indicator for Misha’s leash range. Can now issue Misha commands outside of her leash range. Misha will run to the edge of her range and leash if she attempts to go beyond.
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