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United States1865 Posts
Introduction It's been five days since the Season 3 League of Legends World Championships have kicked off and already almost every popular conception about how the games would play out has been shattered. I don't think anyone expected just how much of a contest this would be right from the start - and barring a few exceptions - every single team that qualified has come out swinging with the type of skill that demands that every opponent, no matter the region, give them their full respect, analysis, and preparation to stay in the game. So, without further ado, let's get into some of the most exciting trends we've been seeing unfold on and off of the Rift during the start of the year's biggest tournament: The Top 5 Storylines of the Group Stage at Worlds5 Koreans are Mortal Cut them they bleed. Gank them they die. (Except maybe Faker!)All throughout the League community, but especially here on TeamLiquid (where a StarCraft background has given us of opportunities to witness Korean domination) there was the very pervasive belief that Korea was going to crush this tournament and that every other region - with the possible exception of China - would be fighting for scraps. To give an idea of the general consensus: Ozone's jungler DanDy now infamously said "I dont think there is any way Korea will lose to a foreign team" and that quote was not challenged in the least during the context of its first posting. We, as a community, were prepared to accept our new Korean overlords. By Day 1, only a few hours into the tournament, that very idea had been fractured. By Day 2, it was smashed to bits, and by now on Day 5 it's not really a surprise at all to see what was considered the strongest team in the world going into the group stage locked in a seriously contested battle against TSM. Korean teams - in a quite surprising show of arrogance - did not really give other teams the preparation and respect they deserved and are only now starting to swing back to the level of preparation we expect from them. For SKT T1, this may be the kick they needed to get started and show off their true skill. While they remain a strong favorite to make a big showing later in the tournament, for the Korean representative in Group B, Samsung Ozone, this may be a case of too-little-too-late. Only time will tell which NaJin Black Sword will arrive - they remain a mystery even in the Korean scene, but if their coaches have any sense they are giving their upcoming quarterfinals match the utmost practice knowing now that there will be no easy games - even for Korea - at this Worlds stage. Let's rewind our minds to the period right after IPL5, when it suddenly became "common knowledge" that China was now the powerhouse region to watch and were soon going to dominate everyone with the strength of their unstoppable aggressive death squad meta. It wasn't until All-Stars when the cracks in this line of thinking started to show and everyone jumped off of the bandwagon, but looking back it seems like the community really may have overreacted to Korea's victory when comparing the two scenes. Any advantage that the boys from Seoul had in terms of meta/adaptation seems to have been quickly made up between then and now. It was mentioned during one of the casts that OMG is considered the hardest working team in China, practicing insane hours and so far not falling into Korea's trap of overconfidence - and they aren't even the first seed out of the region. Royal Club and their incredibly lethal Fizz/Annie support combo are waiting in the wings with a lineup that could potentially be even deadlier than OMG. If these early groups have done any one thing, its erase the gigantic question mark "?" we had about China's potential and make it perfectly clear they are world class in all aspects of their play. "Analysts are now measuring how fast a team lose to OMG to see how good they played" - TSM TheOddOne Obviously it's too early to tell whether China is going to be the unstoppable powerhouse in Worlds that we all expected from Korea, but its definitely worth noting that they didn't just surprise teams for wins. OMG completely demolished them. Nobody from Group A has stood up to OMG's onslaught so far, and their dismantling of small-fry teams like GG.eu was so fast, crisp, and methodical that they looked incredibly scary even against teams they were favored to beat. At this point, it seems like their upcoming second match against SKT T1 may be the only chance of them dropping a single game in this entire group stage. "No one is watching us, so we can continue to grow under the radar" - OMG Gogoing While nobody may have been watching before these groups, Mr. Gogoing, now I have a feeling that everyone will. Let's see how China holds up! 3 Whipping Boys How to approach the clear, dominant, outclassing of the wildcard (GG.eu) and SEA (Mineski) teams depends largely on what Riot's is classifying the purpose of this tournament to be. If its meant to be an Olympics style global representation of every region, then nothing should be done. True, they weren't at the same level as the teams they were competing with but neither is, say, the New Zealand basketball team during the Olympics. Some regions will not have the proper scene to send out a world-class team but if the intention is to represent their players and styles then there is no problem. Certainly the two teams have both been class acts and gracious in defeat. However, if its meant to be a real showcase of the best teams in the world then perhaps some changes need to be made, as it was extremely noticeable that they did not belong from a purely skill based perspective. Perhaps combining the SEA and Taiwan regionals and/or opening up the Wildcard tournament to any willing team from any region might be more representative of top tier talent and prevent the situation we have currently: where one team in each group is basically destined to lose every single match. It creates a rough spot for fans, who cant get too invested in the game knowing the inevitable outcome, and for the analysts and casters who are tasked with being realistic but also attempting to build up hype for a near foregone conclusion. It was a little sad to see so many fans leaving the studio early on Day 4 because the last game (Mineski vs Vulcun) was predicted to be such a stomp, so perhaps decisions will be made in the future to mix the system up. Either way, props to both of these teams for putting on their best effort and looking like they are enjoying themselves even in the face of consistent losses. A pleasant surprise for anyone in NA who wants to root for a home team is just how well the region that everyone counted out has been playing - especially considering the elephant in the room, Cloud 9, has yet to even take the stage. While there are certainly some serious lapses in judgement that NA teams are occasionally making to throw away advantages - the fact is that they are earning these advantages to begin with by keeping up with or even exceeding their opponents from other regions in terms of mechanics/strategy. TSM's big win over Lemondogs, Vulcun's over Fnatic, and the general level of play they have brought to their matches (even losses) against the big Asian teams have shown that this is a region that has grown tremendously in recent skill and will soon be ready to be a major player on the World stage. Even if they don't end up qualifying out of groups, TSM and Vulcun have shown a ton of promise for the region and give great hope for what Cloud9 might be able to accomplish when the quarterfinals roll around. 1 The Analyst Desk What an awesome surprise the analyst desk has turned out to be. Amazing banter, personality, perfect time filler between games, and to top it all off - it actually has analysis! and it's good! Every one of the three key members has done a fantastic job bringing out their personality to their segments and providing the audience with valuable information - especially in the post-game breakdowns. Not to mention Riv has proven to be an extremely adept host able to keep the conversation flowing. It has really made the Worlds watching experience from a game -> break -> game -> break type of situation to a much more fluid stream of entertainment and I really have seen nothing but love from fans responding to this new addition. For the purpose of ESPORTS however, I would like to maybe suggest a few things that could possibly be improved: 1st - I don't know if it's the running scoreboard of correct picks that's causing it but there is way too much of the same pick going around, which thereby leads to the exact same argument being made 3 times as to why "X" team will win as we go down the desk prior to a match. When you watch a ESPN/Sports Center style piece they will almost always make sure to avoid that kind of situation and have at least one person at the desk advocating for each side and giving some argument as to why they might pull it out - even if they are the underdog. This allows for banter back and forth on the merits of the choice (some of the best segments on the analyst desk so far have been exactly that - think Doublelift talking about his belief in gut feelings and American apple pie to root for Vulcun). As of right now a team could be a 60/40 favorite over the other and the analysts will almost always triple pick the 60% one simply because its the safer bet for keeping their "score" up. 2nd - The current lineup of Montecristo/Krepo/Doublelift has amazing synergy and covers different areas of expertise / personality very well, but it is also the very first lineup tried out. It would definitely be interesting to hear from some other big personalities/names in the scene on the desk to see how they handle it and get some fresh voices. If they don't work out, its easy to switch back to the classic 3. 3rd - It seems like the analyst desk has completely replaced the Kobe-on-a-green-screen key battle analysis/playbacks that would break down some team's movement/plays at an important moment. While the former is certainly more awesome and a bigger draw than the latter, it seems like they could definitely co-exist at least for more hotly contested matches. Some analysis just works a lot better with a visual aid and those playbacks were invaluable for noticing cool plays/details that you couldn't pick out in the action before. Anyway, don't let any of this wall of text fool you - the analyst desk is an absolutely resounding success among fans of personalities, trash talk, humor, game breakdowns, and fan interaction alike, and we should all hope it continues not only for the rest of Worlds but maybe even in some other form for tournaments to come during Season 4. BONUS Round!#6 - Genja is a Hipster Is there any doubt at this point that Genja is trolling us all at least a little bit? Not to knock the guy - he's one of the most innovative AD carries in the scene today and never settles for what is considered "standard" - but it's incredibly amusing as a spectator to see him do absolutely everything different than his peers. Oh, you build Phage -> Sheen when you are going Trinity? Nah, I think I'll get the Zeal as my second item on Corki. Oh, you build BF -> Pickaxe when you are going Infinity Edge? Nah, I think I need that 15% Crit Chance from the Cloak of Agility. Doran's Blades? Pfft I'm past that. It's Doran's Shield time, baby! Not to mention busting out - successfully - the first Kog'Maw of the tournament and the very first time a Trinity Force has been built on Kogin a professional match - doing so well against what was considered to possibly be the best bot lane in the world prior to the tournament (Imp/Mata) that they actually picked it up for their next game (and didn't do nearly as well!). Win or lose, Genja's unique avoidance of the "mainstream" when it comes to playing AD carry has been a real treat for viewers to watch. #7 - Unconventional PicksGoing off of Genja's uniqueness is a general trend in the entire tournament of teams not being afraid to bring their own style, mix up their picks a bit, and bring out some strong compositions that their opponents will likely have not prepared for. Some of these adaptations were incredibly successful: Faker, the king of the wide champion pool, developed and played professionally a brand new mid lane champion - Riven - just from practicing in NA Solo queue, where he achieved a ridiculous win rate of 20-1 at the Diamond 1 - Challenger level, and scrims for the past few days. Others, like Nukeduck's decision to bring out a surprise Swain to counter Ahri, or Fnatic's ill-advised attempt to resurrect (pun intended) Yorick top, have been less than successful. While this isn't necessarily a groundbreaking story, the real reason we are all here - why this entire concept of eSports exists - is because its fun for spectators to watch. I've never met a spectator who asked "Could I see the same 10-15 champions every single game?" - and thankfully, that's not what we have received. While there is a core roster of strong picks for this patch (Zed, Corki, Ahri, etc.) teams have been opening up more and more to letting those through and developing ways to counter it in order to get their own advantage in the draft phase. We are seeing cool things like Ozone's Double AD push comp, China's support Annie, the EU's love of Aatrox vs. regions who forgot he was even a champion, etc. All in all, it gives high hopes for the upcoming BoX series games that we will be seeing entertaining drafts. #8 - Crowd HypeDespite some naysayers on Reddit, the live studio crowd has been pretty intense. Sure, I think we can all agree that ward cheering might be getting a little old, but nothing highlights a cool play better than the roar of the crowd. Even Faker admitted that the during T1's match vs TSM, the cheers for his opponents during the pause break really pressured him to step up his game - that's the kind of live tournament pressures that make this so much more interesting than an online cup and separate the true professionals from those who crack under pressure. As an added bonus, I spoke with Riot Lightblind who was one of the people managing the studio floor and he mentioned how cool/well-behaved fans were being about letting the players get where they needed to be without swamping them for autographs and pictures. Its a small studio and that could have been a problem, but the fans were super respectful to everyone who was there to do a job. #9 - Production Value/ WP Riot!So far so good when it comes to Riot's ability to run everything top-notch for such an important tournament. We've had only minor pauses, no crashing or CLG.EU/WE style fiascoes, amazing turnaround on highlight videos for the matches and really fun bonus segments that analyze the teams and interview the players for story lines that are ongoing. Anyone who has been to the studio live can also see how well run Riot has kept this event and how passionate they are about the games that are being put on. Although ... there may be a sneaky conspiracy theory that keeps the studio very well air conditioned in order to sell more Blitz hoodies. We will investigate further. Thanks For Reading! Continue to check out Teamliquid LoL's coverage of all the action as the World Finals progresses!
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United States37500 Posts
Having attended every day of the Group Stage so far, Atrioc brings us unique insight on what it's like being at the Worlds Championship firsthand. Recapping on some of the biggest storyline at Worlds thus far, we hope you enjoy reading and have a good laugh, to the prelude of TL LoL's Worlds Championship coverage.
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First rule of top 5 stories is you do not talk about the sixth story.
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United States37500 Posts
On September 22 2013 00:30 Sermokala wrote: First rule of top 5 stories is you do not talk about the sixth story. Atrioc plz.
dat bait and switch~
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United States37500 Posts
On September 22 2013 00:31 misirlou wrote: no #6? l0l, Atrioc (and I) can't count @_@
Uh, yeah. Will probably have to add in a #6 asap. XD
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How's that "Pick Fizz" sign been doing?
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On September 22 2013 00:30 Sermokala wrote: First rule of top 5 stories is you do not talk about the sixth story.
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They might want to re-think how they do their Wild Cards. Just a suggestion amongst many others. I wouldn't really call NA a weak link. I think we all knew TSM and Vulcan were more than capable of taking games and heck we haven't even seen C9 play yet, which is pretty sad.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
6th stories are a crutch for the weak.
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Australia18228 Posts
The link jumps past the actual quote, btw.
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AWESOME! I made a new Reddit account just to upvote this (forgot my password ). Truly an amazing read.
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To be honest, I'm not really bothered by lack of EU comment (USA! USA! USA!), seriously though, EU got placed into super lucky group, against the poorly adapted Ozone, and Throwbargains. Remember LD went 2-0 against Gambit, in playoffs. LD ain't no chump, but they seriously got thrashed so hard by SKT and OMG; that just shows how far Ozone has really fallen, and how much of a non threat they are. The ozone story line is more so ozone failing as a team, rather than fnatic+gambit rising up.
What was more egregious than lack of EU comment, was the fact that you guys said NA was rising up. >.> Seriously, aside from Vulcun beating fnatic once, there wasn't any time I was like "yo, NA purty good."
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On September 22 2013 01:37 wei2coolman wrote: To be honest, I'm not really bothered by lack of EU comment (USA! USA! USA!), seriously though, EU got placed into super lucky group, against the poorly adapted Ozone, and Throwbargains. Remember LD went 2-0 against Gambit, in playoffs. LD ain't no chump, but they seriously got thrashed so hard by SKT and OMG; that just shows how far Ozone has really fallen, and how much of a non threat they are. The ozone story line is more so ozone failing as a team, rather than fnatic+gambit rising up.
What was more egregious than lack of EU comment, was the fact that you guys said NA was rising up. >.> Seriously, aside from Vulcun beating fnatic once, there wasn't any time I was like "yo, NA purty good." Honestly though TSM and Vulcun looked mostly competitive in their games, which exceeded my (and many others') expectations. Kobe said yesterday, and I agree based upon the games we've seen, that North American teams' A game is competitive with top teams, it's just that the teams can't put together 40 minutes of consistent A game on a regular basis due to carelessness/mistakes. I think that has to be encouraging, but there definitely has to be an eye toward cleaning up some fundamentals in NA solo queue that I don't think motivation is consistently there for. I see way more trolling in top players' streams on NA than on other servers.
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'NA stepping up'
All other teams suffer from jetlag and Americans have the homecrowd advantage with TSM fans going as far as shouting to warn them about ganks, yet you call them losing almost all their games 'stepping up'.
Man you sure love pandering to the American audience.
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On September 22 2013 01:44 upperbound wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 01:37 wei2coolman wrote: To be honest, I'm not really bothered by lack of EU comment (USA! USA! USA!), seriously though, EU got placed into super lucky group, against the poorly adapted Ozone, and Throwbargains. Remember LD went 2-0 against Gambit, in playoffs. LD ain't no chump, but they seriously got thrashed so hard by SKT and OMG; that just shows how far Ozone has really fallen, and how much of a non threat they are. The ozone story line is more so ozone failing as a team, rather than fnatic+gambit rising up.
What was more egregious than lack of EU comment, was the fact that you guys said NA was rising up. >.> Seriously, aside from Vulcun beating fnatic once, there wasn't any time I was like "yo, NA purty good." Honestly though TSM and Vulcun looked mostly competitive in their games, which exceeded my (and many others') expectations. Kobe said yesterday, and I agree based upon the games we've seen, that North American teams' A game is competitive with top teams, it's just that the teams can't put together 40 minutes of consistent A game on a regular basis due to carelessness/mistakes. I think that has to be encouraging, but there definitely has to be an eye toward cleaning up some fundamentals in NA solo queue that I don't think motivation is consistently there for. I see way more trolling in top players' streams on NA than on other servers. Though I agree to an extent, but it's not really noteworthy imo. I think a big part of it is the lack of results despite their showing of skills.
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United States15536 Posts
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On September 22 2013 01:45 yowza wrote: 'NA stepping up'
All other teams suffer from jetlag and Americans have the homecrowd advantage with TSM fans going as far as shouting to warn them about ganks, yet you call them losing almost all their games 'stepping up'.
Man you sure love pandering to the American audience. Pretty interesting c/c from your reddit comment, because obviously in that game people shouting saved Dyrus from the gank and he went on to carry the g- wait. Gambit had already proven that they were able to take on top Koreans team, as well as Fnatic to a certain extent. Ozone has played like utter shit (you could compare DaDe's early picks to LD going Swain because there's an Ahri pick) too.
It's not about "NA is super strong and will no doubt crush in s4", it's about "for all the shit that was thrown as them and them being shown as a push-over, NA has been exceeding expectations". But yeah Vulcun beat Fnatic because jetlag.
Just... If you disagree, it's fine. But don't be so passive-aggressive maybe?
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All we need to form the ultimate Genja build is a tear of the goddess now.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 22 2013 01:45 yowza wrote: 'NA stepping up'
All other teams suffer from jetlag and Americans have the homecrowd advantage with TSM fans going as far as shouting to warn them about ganks, yet you call them losing almost all their games 'stepping up'.
Man you sure love pandering to the American audience.
Losing close games is more than many people expected
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On September 22 2013 01:57 Alaric wrote: But yeah Vulcun beat Fnatic because jetlag.
You say this with sarcasm like this is something unbelievable, somehow completely ignoring that it was fnatic's first game in NA and they just flat out sucked so hard it wasn't even funny. It wasn't vulcun making plays, it was fnatic playing terrible, looking completely off their game.
Their rematch 3 days later showed the sheer disparity in class when fnatic crushed them 17-2 in a staggering 21 minutes. It wasn't even a game, it was a slaughter.
To call this 'stepping up' is just laughable to me.
It seems to be a bit of a trend in American articles when it comes to this tournament, when EU beats KR it's because KR sucks, when KR beats NA it's 'NA stepping up'.
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On September 22 2013 02:19 yowza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 01:57 Alaric wrote: But yeah Vulcun beat Fnatic because jetlag.
You say this with sarcasm like this is something unbelievable, somehow completely ignoring that it was fnatic's first game in NA and they just flat out sucked so hard it wasn't even funny. It wasn't vulcun making plays, it was fnatic playing terrible, looking completely off their game. Their rematch 3 days later showed the sheer disparity in class when fnatic crushed them 17-2 in a staggering 21 minutes. It wasn't even a game, it was a slaughter. To call this 'stepping up' is just laughable to me. It seems to be a bit of a trend in American articles when it comes to this tournament, when EU beats KR it's because KR sucks, when KR beats NA it's 'NA stepping up'. You make it sound as if Ozone is a representation of all of KR. lol. At this point, even CTU would make Ozone it's whipping boy.
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On September 22 2013 02:19 yowza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 01:57 Alaric wrote: But yeah Vulcun beat Fnatic because jetlag.
You say this with sarcasm like this is something unbelievable, somehow completely ignoring that it was fnatic's first game in NA and they just flat out sucked so hard it wasn't even funny. It wasn't vulcun making plays, it was fnatic playing terrible, looking completely off their game. Their rematch 3 days later showed the sheer disparity in class when fnatic crushed them 17-2 in a staggering 21 minutes. It wasn't even a game, it was a slaughter. To call this 'stepping up' is just laughable to me. It seems to be a bit of a trend in American articles when it comes to this tournament, when EU beats KR it's because KR sucks, when KR beats NA it's 'NA stepping up'. Ozone #1 team in the world that has been playing stellar in all of their games but EU happened to reach the pinacle of LoL skill and trash them with ease. Sure.
The article's a bit biaised, obviously, since it's been written by only one person, and who knows the NA scene much more than the EU one. But you're doing exactly what you criticise in his writing: to say he's putting NA on too much of a pedestal, you... put EU on an equally big one. You can't make a sensible point to your readers if you don't take a more reasonable stance.
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United States1865 Posts
Just posted on this on reddit but think I need to repost it here:
TL has anything but an NA bias, if anything its the opposite. The feeling leading up to the world finals was that teams like TSM and Vulcun were going to be in the situation Mineski/GGEU ended up in where they simply cant take a single game and look completely outmatched, so when they came out and won games / pushed some games to the limit like they did and it was a VERY big surprise and good for the overall health of the scene that the region considered in the back was catching up. I originally had one of the #5 stories reserved for Europe but what I realized was it was essentially a Fnatic hype post and there wasn't much I could generalize about the region as a whole - Lemondogs underperformed compared to expectations, Fnatic went all out awesome ballistic, and Gambit is somewhere in the middle and still might have trouble qualifying. I really think it will take more time to get a cohesive storyline on EU. Also the #1-5 ranking isn't like too serious, its just meant to be 5 very interesting revelations from the first games - personally I found Korea not sweeping the thing to be more crazy than anything else, but wanted a good flow to the story. Hope you enjoyed it even if you are from EU, haha!
Just a TL;DR: Europe has had such a wildly different set of games depending on the team, making it hard to put it into one cohesive storyline, and had much different expectations going into the group. Did anyone honestly think a European team wasn't going to make it out of Group B for example? Fnatic has been absolutely awesome but I didn't wan't to write a whole storyline about just them stomping people.
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Edit: I read the post above mine
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The writing was good but the na fanboyism in here is completely insane... not a single mention of fnatics awesome performance and na are STEPPING IT UP ? I deleted the rest of my post because I wrote bad things but this is honestly ugly
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I don't think Atrioc saying NA has been a surprise is false. Everyone before group stages was talking like na might as well not bother show up, and that they wouldn't win a game.
The other thing is that there wouldn't be so many people talking about the mediocre na performance if so many European posters didn't group up and set the expectations for na to be so low. I'd heard na was so awful and bad so many times, and that we wouldn't win a game on any team, and honestly I feel pride knowing that TSM and Vulcan are competitive. especially since side posters went as far as saying that C9 should be stripped of their seeding because NA so far behind.
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10/10 Atrioc =)
PS. Don't let the haters get to you.
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On September 22 2013 03:00 RouaF wrote:The writing was good but the na fanboyism in here is completely insane... not a single mention of fnatics awesome performance and na are STEPPING IT UP ? I deleted the rest of my post because I wrote bad things but this is honestly ugly
Well, apple pie is really good and we are entering apple pie season.
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LOL so many butthurt Europeans in this thread, NA is definitely stepping in up; TSM beat LD and put up a good fight vs SKT, Vulcun beat Fnatic.. Compared to how they used to perform during previous Worlds championship this is way better.
e : no mention of Faker though, made me sad :/
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so much hate towards the writer.
Stop being so insecure.
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I agree with 3); at least from a fan's perspective, having those two teams there is really really lame. I don't mean any disrespect to GG/Minesky, but they're so outclassed that I already know the results to their games beforehand makes it a lot less entertaining to watch. Then there's also another point that they're taking up potential spots of other REAL top teams; imagine having KTB or one of the CJ teams, or World Elite, etc... It would of made the groups MUCH more interesting.
Something missing that I feel should be included is the shitty format of the tournament. Seeding the top teams like this is soooo terrible from the viewer's point of view. If they are the TOP teams, we would no doubt want to see them play more. The way it's set up right now makes this completely opposite. The fact that the best NA team, could be out after playing 2 games is mind blown; seriously? Spent entire 4-6(?) months getting into World Finals, coming all the way here to LA, to play two games?
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That's the problem with articles that try and shed a little positivity. NA is constantly trashed as the weakest, and when finally someone decides to mix in a little positivity, they get dumped on. Why do people enjoy tearing down positive things so much? It's really quite disappointing.
Great article. My most surprising moment was when TSM didn't get absolutely demolished by SKT, and actually won a few teamfights in their first game. Second being the koreans, I was on that korean wagon hard, and they let me down.
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On September 22 2013 03:00 RouaF wrote:The writing was good but the na fanboyism in here is completely insane... not a single mention of fnatics awesome performance and na are STEPPING IT UP ? I deleted the rest of my post because I wrote bad things but this is honestly ugly Maybe because it's Gambit fucking up more than Fnatic stepping it up, at this point? It shouldn't surprise anyone—if anything, Vulcun were expected to get wrecked, while Mineski is dead last, and Fnatic and Gambit would fight with Ozone on an equal footing for qualification.
Instead, Ozone collapsed entirely, and Gambit are struggling despite this (you wanna know what's ugly? Ozone's play is ugly). If we consider the expectations toward the European teams against top-level Korean teams before the tournament started, then if "level" can't be used to instead describe the treatment the former apply to Ozone it means Europe is actually underperforming. And Gambit is. Fnatic? They've been rolling Gambit for months, their results are only to be expected. And because of what happened to Ozone, they can't be used to measure their opponents' success. So Fnatic did exactly what was expected of them (while getting a "bye" as far as form is concerned because they didn't have any opponent to challenge them), while Gambit seemed weaker than usual. Group B to me is Vulcun stepping it up with their potential (for lack of consistency) and Gambit and Ozone disappointing, not "Fnatic stepping it up" at all.
You've got to realise that when using words like this and measure success, it's results against expectations, so you've got to put the results into perspective (not much praise to get from beating current Ozone) and keep the expectations in mind (you're not improving if you only do what you're supposed/expected to be capable of).
NA fans are delusional to some degree (which we'll see precisely when C9 gets to play, hopefully a Chinese/Korean team), but I've been really annoyed recently with how blusterous the EU fans have been, and how salty/upset they get whenever their outbursts of boasting are denied.
He meant that we need to see a dshield->Tear->Triforce build of some kind by Genja.
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On September 22 2013 03:49 Fubi wrote: I agree with 3); at least from a fan's perspective, having those two teams there is really really lame. I don't mean any disrespect to GG/Minesky, but they're so outclassed that I already know the results to their games beforehand makes it a lot less entertaining to watch. Then there's also another point that they're taking up potential spots of other REAL top teams; imagine having KTB or one of the CJ teams, or World Elite, etc... It would of made the groups MUCH more interesting.
Something missing that I feel should be included is the shitty format of the tournament. Seeding the top teams like this is soooo terrible from the viewer's point of view. If they are the TOP teams, we would no doubt want to see them play more. The way it's set up right now makes this completely opposite. The fact that the best NA team, can be out after playing 2 games is mind blown; seriously? Spent entire 4-6(?) months getting into World Finals, coming all the way here to LA, to play two games?
I find it more of a problem that these last placed teams don't even seem to be trying to win now. There's really no incentive for them left aside from placement, and even that may not be enough. They keep saying how it's a learning experience, but I've never seen a 10k deficit in around 10-15 minute mark. That's crazy to think about, but it's been happening with these teams.
You see more interesting games happening in any level of solo queue than you do with how GGeu/Mineski are currently playing.
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TSM is stepping up if getting slight early leads and getting outplayed/toyed with all game by SKT/OMG means stepping up. If Ozone's slump discredits any performances in group B, beating LD should be treated likewise, since they've been similarly underperforming compared to LCS Summer Season/Playoffs. GG.eu is just bad (they can't even make LCS EU qualifiers), whoever predicted them to beat TSM is probably a TSM hater.
Vulcun didn't step up anything. They scored a win against an arrogant, unprepared fnatic, stomped the one of the bottom two teams twice (again, as pointed out in the article, predictably), and got rolled three times (they didn't make it to 30 minutes against Ozone, Gambit and Fnatic in game 2)
On September 22 2013 03:57 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 03:49 Fubi wrote: I agree with 3); at least from a fan's perspective, having those two teams there is really really lame. I don't mean any disrespect to GG/Minesky, but they're so outclassed that I already know the results to their games beforehand makes it a lot less entertaining to watch. Then there's also another point that they're taking up potential spots of other REAL top teams; imagine having KTB or one of the CJ teams, or World Elite, etc... It would of made the groups MUCH more interesting.
Something missing that I feel should be included is the shitty format of the tournament. Seeding the top teams like this is soooo terrible from the viewer's point of view. If they are the TOP teams, we would no doubt want to see them play more. The way it's set up right now makes this completely opposite. The fact that the best NA team, can be out after playing 2 games is mind blown; seriously? Spent entire 4-6(?) months getting into World Finals, coming all the way here to LA, to play two games? I find it more of a problem that these last placed teams don't even seem to be trying to win now. There's really no incentive for them left aside from placement, and even that may not be enough. They keep saying how it's a learning experience, but I've never seen a 10k deficit in around 10-15 minute mark. That's crazy to think about, but it's been happening with these teams. You see more interesting games happening in any level of solo queue than you do with how GGeu/Mineski are currently playing.
Maybe it's just how big the difference between GG.eu/Mineski and the other teams really is. Sure they might have lost their motivation to try, but they didn't play completely terrible after all. Just "trying hard" doesn't help if you're individually and strategically outmatched so badly
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I also don't agree with all the harsh criticisms of Korean teams. If you look at it objectively, SKT beat everyone else and only lost one game against OMG, whom most people agree are playing like gods. Ozone, is playing really shitty, yes; but you have to consider the recent shift in meta due to this patch literally messed up EVERY one of their lane; Imp, Dade, Homme, all of their best champions got hit one way or another. Then they also lost their coach, as well as their big bro Homme isn't even playing with them for some reason, so for the rest of the relatively young team, it's quite understandable to have nerv issues coming ontop a big foreign stage for their first time. But even despite their shitty performance they only lost to Fnatic, whom is the top of their group, and split 1-1 with Gambit. I can't say that's a TERRIBLE performance; they're still in the running to make it out of the group.
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On September 22 2013 04:03 Fubi wrote: I also don't agree with all the harsh criticisms of Korean teams. If you look at it objectively, SKT beat everyone else and only lost one game against OMG, whom most people agree are playing like gods.
May point out deeper issues, though. SKT has repeatedly looked shaky Level 1/early game (feeding first bloods etc) but only OMG managed to hold on/snowball their lead since they can compete with SKT on an individual level
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Whoever wrote this was looking to my soul because I agree with all of it. Great writeup!
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gooby why use the picture for the analyst desk with phreak they have great chemistry with each other and kobe helped show that, but phreak made it super awkward by constantly clashing with montecristo
another cute thing - faker's 2 riven games yesterday were preceded by very little previous experience (no ranked history in korea on his main or in tournament play) except for his spam in NA solo queue - including a convincing win as AP riven (LOL)
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to be fair he could've just bought all of his AP items at the very end.
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thats what i thought but yango told me the game time / gpm / kills cs etc. didn't add up (lichbane + void + dcap + 2 dorans or something)
probably started 2 dorans and was so fat that he just said "fuck it" and went that lich bane yolo
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Vancouver14381 Posts
Genja is the story that keeps on giving. Even the analyst desk was dumbfounded by his build.
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Well I don't get the NA stepping up. EU is stepping up more and they are not even in the top 5. On the rest I can agree on.
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The reason people think NA is stepping up is because TSM and Vulcan have appeared competitive, or have moments of brilliance, versus the Korean teams and OMG. OMG is just face stomping people, while the Korean teams have been kinda shaky at times, especially in the early game.
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im not a rivington fan but he's a fantastic host meh to alright caster but great host
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Great Write up. Keep it up :D
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Haha the elephant in the room xD
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tsm stepping it up in that last game
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Sure League is casual, and Dota2 is TL's ARTS of choice, but its nice to see such reasonable coverage of a major esports event. S3 has been overall pretty good, even if their format made some late games into pure formalities; at least the teams put on troll games to entertain the fans.
Please keep up the LoL coverage! TL is my fav esports news and analysis site by a large margin, and its nice to see them write more about the game I play most. <3 TL!
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On September 22 2013 04:06 DragoonTT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 04:03 Fubi wrote: I also don't agree with all the harsh criticisms of Korean teams. If you look at it objectively, SKT beat everyone else and only lost one game against OMG, whom most people agree are playing like gods. May point out deeper issues, though. SKT has repeatedly looked shaky Level 1/early game (feeding first bloods etc) but only OMG managed to hold on/snowball their lead since they can compete with SKT on an individual level but they've shown dramatic improvement in that aspect though, even adopting the 'early 5 man group' thing vs omg. yea, their environemnt in korea didn't prepare them for the early game dives, and in some of the games it is they who played way too aggressive, but i think the adaptation they did make is very impressive.
ozone though is just wtf
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On September 23 2013 00:59 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 04:06 DragoonTT wrote:On September 22 2013 04:03 Fubi wrote: I also don't agree with all the harsh criticisms of Korean teams. If you look at it objectively, SKT beat everyone else and only lost one game against OMG, whom most people agree are playing like gods. May point out deeper issues, though. SKT has repeatedly looked shaky Level 1/early game (feeding first bloods etc) but only OMG managed to hold on/snowball their lead since they can compete with SKT on an individual level but they've shown dramatic improvement in that aspect though, even adopting the 'early 5 man group' thing vs omg. yea, their environemnt in korea didn't prepare them for the early game dives, and in some of the games it is they who played way too aggressive, but i think the adaptation they did make is very impressive. ozone though is just wtf I heard the Sightstone has found the secret to Ozone's bad performance
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I liked this writeup a lot.
Couple things I wanted to point out:
for 9, cold studios are necessary to keep the machines from overheating. I'm sure the last point was mostly a joke, but just a little something to note
I wouldn't watch the LCS championships if they were to remove the Wildcard/SEA teams from the equation. I watch it because it's an olympics-style competition with a bunch of different areas represented. It's the reason I don't watch the WCS, there's no equal representation. Before this becomes sidetracked, I'd like to point out that I do not care what your points are for getting rid of GG/Mineski situations. I understand most of the arguments against them being there, but I disagree, simply an opinion.
The level of... I don't know what you'd call racism based on countries/continents from a lot of people on this forum in general is a bit disgusting. NA has clearly stepped up their game, they played considerably better this LCS than they had in the previous. I haven't seen a single legitimate argument against that. You can disagree all you'd like, but to slight the leaps and bounds they've grown in skill is beyond insulting to anyone who wants to honestly discuss the tournament. If you cannot get your point across without making excuses or slighting the time, effort, practice, etc. of a team without clear examples proving your point then you're adding nothing useful to the conversation. Frankly I'd hoped the Korea/EU fanaticism was an SC2 specific phenomenon and it's pretty disappointing to see it show up here as well.
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United States37500 Posts
For what it's worth, I think if you compare the NA teams in a vacuum, they did play better in Group Stage than during the Summer Playoffs, for example. That takes away nothing from Fnatic and Gambit, who have obviously been performing at a higher level on a regular basis.
I must admit that the nationalist response on reddit took Atrioc and I both by surprise. Frankly, it made me a little disappointed. We tried to make an interesting post about Groups but far too many people decided to tunnel vision on the lack of EU acknowledgement. Alas.
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United States32432 Posts
suck it Korea
except faker, he is cool
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That was a really nice write-up Good job, yo :D
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if you played dota you know china dota was the best(EHOME 2010 omg) and from sc2, top tier koreans are robots. Faker is a robot, madlife 2, now in LoL both are there i just wanna see them clash i was saying since day one it was KVC, Royal vs SKT1 most likely . GOGO SKT1
the only way to fix this is riot making the LCS/OGN/Garena/China like league time to time, this is going to balance the regions. ofc KoreaChina will be better but not something Faker/Cool like, those guys are beast.
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Koreans dominating another eSports! SKT T1 winning 3-0. If Najin and SKT didn't meet in the semi-finals they would've met in the finals. It is clear in their game-play that they are miles ahead of others.
People should just accept that Koreans will be better at any eSports they get interested in. Koreans ARE more intelligent, better mechanically, and can focus much better than others.
Dota 2 has 1 more year before Koreans start to ROFL stomp ALL the joke Dota 2 teams.
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On October 05 2013 21:59 TaishiCi wrote: Koreans dominating another eSports! SKT T1 winning 3-0. If Najin and SKT didn't meet in the semi-finals they would've met in the finals. It is clear in their game-play that they are miles ahead of others.
People should just accept that Koreans will be better at any eSports they get interested in. Koreans ARE more intelligent, better mechanically, and can focus much better than others. They make shitty music tho.
I'm joking, wp SKT
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On October 05 2013 22:20 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 21:59 TaishiCi wrote: Koreans dominating another eSports! SKT T1 winning 3-0. If Najin and SKT didn't meet in the semi-finals they would've met in the finals. It is clear in their game-play that they are miles ahead of others.
People should just accept that Koreans will be better at any eSports they get interested in. Koreans ARE more intelligent, better mechanically, and can focus much better than others. They make shitty music tho. I'm joking, wp SKT Submit to the Koreans, you whitedog. lol
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On October 05 2013 21:59 TaishiCi wrote: Koreans ARE more intelligent, better mechanically, and can focus much better than others.
The fact that you're from Korea makes this comment a bit... well... I'm from Germany, so let me just say this rings a bell, lmao.
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On October 05 2013 23:50 UmberBane wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 21:59 TaishiCi wrote: Koreans ARE more intelligent, better mechanically, and can focus much better than others.
The fact that you're from Korea makes this comment a bit... well... I'm from Germany, so let me just say this rings a bell, lmao.
I don't think for a second that Koreans are Uberman. There are many things that Koreans are clearly at a disadvantage at. But they do have a special set of skills that a predominant in their population. Be it be environmental factors like using metal chopsticks increases your hand speed or small genetic factors like longer finger length. Joseon having a large density of scholars proportional to their population may also be a factor.
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Yeah it's kind of a dead horse at this point, but I think the biggest environmental factors (only through my Westerner lens) are their infrastructure, possibly pc bang culture, and being a very technology savvy nation in general.
I read a very interesting book on how talent hotbeds pop up all over the worlds for all fields, from music to sports to art, and eSport in Seoul just fits all of those characteristics and is a prime example of that principle.
Hey and if chopsticks were the reason the Chinese should be able to compete with them. (and SEA wouldn't be so awful as a region maybe T_T)
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