BelLiss is the translator who always translate for omg member during interview.(poor English though). She stood behind OMG during matches.
She said: The pause during the match VS SKT was because the failure of San's keyboard and mouse. This failure might be caused by the problem of power or voltage from computer, it was not San's personal reason. During the pause, the player were not allowed to talk. Moreover, the pause must be reasonable, or the club(OMG) will be punished. Maybe the fans who said we cheated was prejudiced by first impression due to bias.
maybe they should play like in TI, every player has an HDD where they store their windows install+game+drivers+configs. pit crew comes in, swaps hdd and keyboards for 5 players in under 2 mins and no pauses due to keyboard/mouse fail. the only pauses I recal one was a caster misclick and other was between chinese team vs TL I believe.
On September 23 2013 10:01 misirlou wrote: maybe they should play like in TI, every player has an HDD where they store their windows install+game+drivers+configs. pit crew comes in, swaps hdd and keyboards for 5 players in under 2 mins and no pauses due to keyboard/mouse fail. the only pauses I recal one was a caster misclick and other was between chinese team vs TL I believe.
I thought LoL invented that. iirc LCS studio in ESL does that for quite awhile.
edit: CSGO did that first, but indeed LCS has been doing it for a while.
There are various posts on this subject, and if we go in detail, there is little doubt that the timings of the pauses were at least calculated on the part of OMG, even if we are to believe that the technical difficulties were indeed there. You only need to replay the movements of San to notice that there is something off, in both of the games that were brought into question.
Is it against the regulations? Perhaps not, but it is in extremely bad taste, and people really don't appreciate OMG making a habbit out of this.
On September 23 2013 20:44 Letmelose wrote: There are various posts on this subject, and if we go in detail, there is little doubt that the timings of the pauses were at least calculated on the part of OMG, even if we are to believe that the technical difficulties were indeed there. You only need to replay the movements of San to notice that there is something off, in both of the games that were brought into question.
Is it against the regulations? Perhaps not, but it is in extremely bad taste, and people really don't appreciate OMG making a habbit out of this.
On September 23 2013 10:01 misirlou wrote: maybe they should play like in TI, every player has an HDD where they store their windows install+game+drivers+configs. pit crew comes in, swaps hdd and keyboards for 5 players in under 2 mins and no pauses due to keyboard/mouse fail. the only pauses I recal one was a caster misclick and other was between chinese team vs TL I believe.
Finol the Pause man who accidentaly paused and then unpaused without saying anything, haha, was hilarious.
On September 23 2013 20:44 Letmelose wrote: There are various posts on this subject, and if we go in detail, there is little doubt that the timings of the pauses were at least calculated on the part of OMG, even if we are to believe that the technical difficulties were indeed there. You only need to replay the movements of San to notice that there is something off, in both of the games that were brought into question.
Is it against the regulations? Perhaps not, but it is in extremely bad taste, and people really don't appreciate OMG making a habbit out of this.
but how do you communicate when to pause?
I personally believe that in both of the cases, San took a couple of seconds to spectate what was going on, and paused what he thought would be the most advantageous timing for his team, regardless of what else went on during those games. Pauses and technical difficulties are much more common in the Chinese scene, and it has become a second nature for some of these players to get some advantages out of these situations.
If you have a problem, pause the game without trying to gain something on the side. That's all I'm asking.
On September 23 2013 20:44 Letmelose wrote: There are various posts on this subject, and if we go in detail, there is little doubt that the timings of the pauses were at least calculated on the part of OMG, even if we are to believe that the technical difficulties were indeed there. You only need to replay the movements of San to notice that there is something off, in both of the games that were brought into question.
Is it against the regulations? Perhaps not, but it is in extremely bad taste, and people really don't appreciate OMG making a habbit out of this.
but how do you communicate when to pause?
I personally believe that in both of the cases, San took a couple of seconds to spectate what was going on, and paused what he thought would be the most advantageous timing for his team, regardless of what else went on during those games. Pauses and technical difficulties are much more common in the Chinese scene, and it has become a second nature for some of these players to get some advantages out of these situations.
If you have a problem, pause the game without trying to gain something on the side. That's all I'm asking.
i think faker thought san would pause to try to get an advantage for cool, so he tried to move to make san think he was pausing for cool but REALLY faker would be the one getting an advantage out of it, but then faker got outplayed in SPITE of that and then got killed, but the pause actually benefited piglet cause it let him aim the ezreal ult better
see i can throw out stupid claims with no backup too!!!!
On September 23 2013 20:44 Letmelose wrote: There are various posts on this subject, and if we go in detail, there is little doubt that the timings of the pauses were at least calculated on the part of OMG, even if we are to believe that the technical difficulties were indeed there. You only need to replay the movements of San to notice that there is something off, in both of the games that were brought into question.
Is it against the regulations? Perhaps not, but it is in extremely bad taste, and people really don't appreciate OMG making a habbit out of this.
but how do you communicate when to pause?
I personally believe that in both of the cases, San took a couple of seconds to spectate what was going on, and paused what he thought would be the most advantageous timing for his team, regardless of what else went on during those games. Pauses and technical difficulties are much more common in the Chinese scene, and it has become a second nature for some of these players to get some advantages out of these situations.
If you have a problem, pause the game without trying to gain something on the side. That's all I'm asking.
i think faker thought san would pause to try to get an advantage for cool, so he tried to move to make san think he was pausing for cool but REALLY faker would be the one getting an advantage out of it, but then faker got outplayed in SPITE of that and then got killed, but the pause actually benefited piglet cause it let him aim the ezreal ult better
see i can throw out stupid claims with no backup too!!!!
Stop being defensive, take a close look at what San does several seconds before the pause in both of the games.
No pause for keyboard/mouse failure. A progamer has to be fucking responsible for his/her own equipment. If shit happens, sucks to be you; it should be rare enough that your equipment has a legitimate failure.
A shame there's no real good way I can think of to incorporate fighter game tournament/EVO style penalties for pausing in a LoL game. Pausing in EVO for equipment failure gets penalized due to how disruptive the pausing is, no matter how legitimate the cause is. Strategic pausing is impossible since pausing = you lose the round and if you don't have an immediate equipment replacement you lose the match.
If I were OMG:
Fucking pause when there isn't something critical happening.
It doesn't matter how legitimate it is, if you pause at a critical moment MULTIPLE FUCKING TIMES and don't pause at all when you are winning/when nothing is happening people will cry "foul" and to be honest I find it to be fucking poor taste to try to seek an advantage when pausing.
On September 23 2013 21:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:10 Letmelose wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:00 Chexx wrote:
On September 23 2013 20:44 Letmelose wrote: There are various posts on this subject, and if we go in detail, there is little doubt that the timings of the pauses were at least calculated on the part of OMG, even if we are to believe that the technical difficulties were indeed there. You only need to replay the movements of San to notice that there is something off, in both of the games that were brought into question.
Is it against the regulations? Perhaps not, but it is in extremely bad taste, and people really don't appreciate OMG making a habbit out of this.
but how do you communicate when to pause?
I personally believe that in both of the cases, San took a couple of seconds to spectate what was going on, and paused what he thought would be the most advantageous timing for his team, regardless of what else went on during those games. Pauses and technical difficulties are much more common in the Chinese scene, and it has become a second nature for some of these players to get some advantages out of these situations.
If you have a problem, pause the game without trying to gain something on the side. That's all I'm asking.
i think faker thought san would pause to try to get an advantage for cool, so he tried to move to make san think he was pausing for cool but REALLY faker would be the one getting an advantage out of it, but then faker got outplayed in SPITE of that and then got killed, but the pause actually benefited piglet cause it let him aim the ezreal ult better
see i can throw out stupid claims with no backup too!!!!
Stop being defensive, take a close look at what San does several seconds before the pause in both of the games.
On September 23 2013 21:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:10 Letmelose wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:00 Chexx wrote:
On September 23 2013 20:44 Letmelose wrote: There are various posts on this subject, and if we go in detail, there is little doubt that the timings of the pauses were at least calculated on the part of OMG, even if we are to believe that the technical difficulties were indeed there. You only need to replay the movements of San to notice that there is something off, in both of the games that were brought into question.
Is it against the regulations? Perhaps not, but it is in extremely bad taste, and people really don't appreciate OMG making a habbit out of this.
but how do you communicate when to pause?
I personally believe that in both of the cases, San took a couple of seconds to spectate what was going on, and paused what he thought would be the most advantageous timing for his team, regardless of what else went on during those games. Pauses and technical difficulties are much more common in the Chinese scene, and it has become a second nature for some of these players to get some advantages out of these situations.
If you have a problem, pause the game without trying to gain something on the side. That's all I'm asking.
i think faker thought san would pause to try to get an advantage for cool, so he tried to move to make san think he was pausing for cool but REALLY faker would be the one getting an advantage out of it, but then faker got outplayed in SPITE of that and then got killed, but the pause actually benefited piglet cause it let him aim the ezreal ult better
see i can throw out stupid claims with no backup too!!!!
Stop being defensive, take a close look at what San does several seconds before the pause in both of the games.
On September 23 2013 21:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: have you considered that what he does looks weird because he was having technical difficulties...?
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
What was San doing during those 17 seconds? He wasn't even farming, or even buying items, and if something went wrong, he would have felt it before he recalled when he was busy farming and harassing. If something was wrong all the time, and there were no other incentives, San would have paused without waiting for 17 seconds, and if something went wrong after the recall, I'm not sure how he could have known considering he was doing nothing but sitting still in his base for the exact few seconds when the mid-lane battle occured.
You can rationalize it anyway you want, but it was a distasteful pause that I'm almost certain was calculated on the part of San to some degree. The question of whether it made a difference or not does not matter, since the intent was malicious to begin with.
I wasn't even going make a big deal out of this, but if you're going out with an agenda and pretend to put a weird spin on what were some clearly cringe-worthy moments that only didn't make much of a splash because no Western teams were involved, I'm going to bring you down.
Don't bother trying to sugar-coat what any level-headed person would judge as something to be cautious against. Seriously, it makes you look pitiful.
On September 23 2013 21:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: have you considered that what he does looks weird because he was having technical difficulties...?
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
What was San doing during those 17 seconds? He wasn't even farming, or even buying items, and if something went wrong, he would have felt it before he recalled when he was busy farming and harassing. If something was wrong all the time, and there were no other incentives, San would have paused without waiting for 17 seconds, and if something went wrong after the recall, I'm not sure how he could have known considering he was doing nothing but sitting still in his base for the exact few seconds when the mid-lane battle occured.
You can rationalize it anyway you want, but it was a distasteful pause that I'm almost certain was calculated on the part of San to some degree. The question of whether it made a difference or not does not matter, since the intent was malicious to begin with.
Riot sticks people in the booths to monitor for these kinds of things and there were zero complaints lodged and there was no one actually involved who said it was suspicious. The only complaints I've seen are from random keyboard warriors such as yourself
randomly accusing players of malicious conduct based on pure speculation with no proof is what's actually in poor taste
On September 23 2013 21:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: have you considered that what he does looks weird because he was having technical difficulties...?
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
What was San doing during those 17 seconds? He wasn't even farming, or even buying items, and if something went wrong, he would have felt it before he recalled when he was busy farming and harassing. If something was wrong all the time, and there were no other incentives, San would have paused without waiting for 17 seconds, and if something went wrong after the recall, I'm not sure how he could have known considering he was doing nothing but sitting still in his base for the exact few seconds when the mid-lane battle occured.
You can rationalize it anyway you want, but it was a distasteful pause that I'm almost certain was calculated on the part of San to some degree. The question of whether it made a difference or not does not matter, since the intent was malicious to begin with.
Then San will be a god. Knowing that he pause will cancel Faker auto attack but not affecting Cool Move, and standing under tower for 2 seconds instead of following lovelin or calling lovelin comeback.
Personally, I don't think the first one was suspicious but the second one was suspicious. However; in China, the Chinese communities are much harsher than anyone. The curse from Baidu users are 100 times harsher than reddit/inven.(And he had already been cursed because he was considered the weakest member of OMG) Misaya was almost retired due to the curse. More importantly, this is a show match, if he did it intentionally, i will rate his IQ and EQ<0 and ask him to retire. Anyway, I did understand what you were thinking and wanted Riot give an official statement.
On September 23 2013 21:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: have you considered that what he does looks weird because he was having technical difficulties...?
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
What was San doing during those 17 seconds? He wasn't even farming, or even buying items, and if something went wrong, he would have felt it before he recalled when he was busy farming and harassing. If something was wrong all the time, and there were no other incentives, San would have paused without waiting for 17 seconds, and if something went wrong after the recall, I'm not sure how he could have known considering he was doing nothing but sitting still in his base for the exact few seconds when the mid-lane battle occured.
You can rationalize it anyway you want, but it was a distasteful pause that I'm almost certain was calculated on the part of San to some degree. The question of whether it made a difference or not does not matter, since the intent was malicious to begin with.
Riot sticks people in the booths to monitor for these kinds of things and there were zero complaints lodged and there was no one actually involved who said it was suspicious. The only complaints I've seen are from random keyboard warriors such as yourself
randomly accusing players of malicious conduct based on pure speculation with no proof is what's actually in poor taste
Riot doesn't want the image of their poorly run tournament to be tainted. Some authority they are on the subject, and it's hilarious that you think what they have to say holds any weight. If you are fine on the issue of inappropriate pauses interfering with the flow of the game, and how players can, and do abuse it to varying degrees, then stand by Riot Gaming as long as they protect your own interests.
On September 23 2013 21:43 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: have you considered that what he does looks weird because he was having technical difficulties...?
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
What was San doing during those 17 seconds? He wasn't even farming, or even buying items, and if something went wrong, he would have felt it before he recalled when he was busy farming and harassing. If something was wrong all the time, and there were no other incentives, San would have paused without waiting for 17 seconds, and if something went wrong after the recall, I'm not sure how he could have known considering he was doing nothing but sitting still in his base for the exact few seconds when the mid-lane battle occured.
You can rationalize it anyway you want, but it was a distasteful pause that I'm almost certain was calculated on the part of San to some degree. The question of whether it made a difference or not does not matter, since the intent was malicious to begin with.
Riot sticks people in the booths to monitor for these kinds of things and there were zero complaints lodged and there was no one actually involved who said it was suspicious. The only complaints I've seen are from random keyboard warriors such as yourself
randomly accusing players of malicious conduct based on pure speculation with no proof is what's actually in poor taste
Riot doesn't want the image of their poorly run tournament to be tainted. Some authority they are on the subject, and it's hilarious that you think what they have to say holds any weight. If you are fine on the issue of inappropriate pauses interfering with the flow of the game, and how players can, and do abuse it to varying degrees, then stand by Riot Gaming as long as they protect your own interests.
On September 23 2013 21:43 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: have you considered that what he does looks weird because he was having technical difficulties...?
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
What was San doing during those 17 seconds? He wasn't even farming, or even buying items, and if something went wrong, he would have felt it before he recalled when he was busy farming and harassing. If something was wrong all the time, and there were no other incentives, San would have paused without waiting for 17 seconds, and if something went wrong after the recall, I'm not sure how he could have known considering he was doing nothing but sitting still in his base for the exact few seconds when the mid-lane battle occured.
You can rationalize it anyway you want, but it was a distasteful pause that I'm almost certain was calculated on the part of San to some degree. The question of whether it made a difference or not does not matter, since the intent was malicious to begin with.
Riot sticks people in the booths to monitor for these kinds of things and there were zero complaints lodged and there was no one actually involved who said it was suspicious. The only complaints I've seen are from random keyboard warriors such as yourself
randomly accusing players of malicious conduct based on pure speculation with no proof is what's actually in poor taste
Riot doesn't want the image of their poorly run tournament to be tainted. Some authority they are on the subject, and it's hilarious that you think what they have to say holds any weight. If you are fine on the issue of inappropriate pauses interfering with the flow of the game, and how players can, and do abuse it to varying degrees, then stand by Riot Gaming as long as they protect your own interests.
Your thinking was identical to irrational internet users in China. No matter how many evidences the government have, the government is always bad and lying. I will still doubt the second pause, and wait riot to provide evidences. And I think Cool was screw up by San, it should be a 1for1 trade with Faker, and those irrational people from Baidu started to curse Cool for cheating
On September 23 2013 21:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: have you considered that what he does looks weird because he was having technical difficulties...?
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
What was San doing during those 17 seconds? He wasn't even farming, or even buying items, and if something went wrong, he would have felt it before he recalled when he was busy farming and harassing. If something was wrong all the time, and there were no other incentives, San would have paused without waiting for 17 seconds, and if something went wrong after the recall, I'm not sure how he could have known considering he was doing nothing but sitting still in his base for the exact few seconds when the mid-lane battle occured.
You can rationalize it anyway you want, but it was a distasteful pause that I'm almost certain was calculated on the part of San to some degree. The question of whether it made a difference or not does not matter, since the intent was malicious to begin with.
Then San will be a god. Knowing that he pause will cancel Faker auto attack but not affecting Cool Move, and standing under tower for 2 seconds instead of following lovelin or calling lovelin comeback.
Personally, I don't think the first one was suspicious but the second one was suspicious. However; in China, the Chinese communities are much harsher than anyone. The curse from Baidu users are 100 times harsher than reddit/inven.(And he had already been cursed because he was considered the weakest member of OMG) Misaya was almost retired due to the curse. More importantly, this is a show match, if he did it intentionally, i will rate his IQ and EQ<0 and ask him to retire. Anyway, I did understand what you were thinking and wanted Riot give an official statement.
Practice makes perfect. From what I've seen, the Chinese scene is plagued with technical difficulties, and although it's not widespread, I've heard rumours of certain players abusing these scenarios by bending to rules as much as they can.
There are zero methods of proving that the competitive integrity of the games that involved Team Solo Mid was hurt by the lack of sound-proof booths, and the idiots in the crowd that tried to give their favourite team an advantage by shouting things out. However, it is something that should be prevented, and something that Riot Gaming should watch out for. It is the same with the inappropriate pauses. It cannot be used strategically, so we can see who is truly the best, not who is the best at pausing at clutch times, or hearing out for what the crowd shouts out.
Seriously, if people aren't concerned with how the tournament is being run, and just cares about cool storylines, and doesn't want me to "ruin" the fun, then don't pretend this is something that it is not. Stop pretending that everything is fine because official statements have been stated, because we can clearly see there are problems at hand, and it is an issue that needs to be addressed if competitive integrity is to be maintained. Oh wait, that's already been thrown out the window. Carry on.
i don't think riot is doing any conspiracies, but they also are not perfectly able to enforce any rules about pausing, specifically whether a complaint is legit or not. sometimes a mouse can stop working then come back online, or at least a player can claim that.
On September 23 2013 21:43 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: have you considered that what he does looks weird because he was having technical difficulties...?
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
What was San doing during those 17 seconds? He wasn't even farming, or even buying items, and if something went wrong, he would have felt it before he recalled when he was busy farming and harassing. If something was wrong all the time, and there were no other incentives, San would have paused without waiting for 17 seconds, and if something went wrong after the recall, I'm not sure how he could have known considering he was doing nothing but sitting still in his base for the exact few seconds when the mid-lane battle occured.
You can rationalize it anyway you want, but it was a distasteful pause that I'm almost certain was calculated on the part of San to some degree. The question of whether it made a difference or not does not matter, since the intent was malicious to begin with.
Riot sticks people in the booths to monitor for these kinds of things and there were zero complaints lodged and there was no one actually involved who said it was suspicious. The only complaints I've seen are from random keyboard warriors such as yourself
randomly accusing players of malicious conduct based on pure speculation with no proof is what's actually in poor taste
Riot doesn't want the image of their poorly run tournament to be tainted. Some authority they are on the subject, and it's hilarious that you think what they have to say holds any weight. If you are fine on the issue of inappropriate pauses interfering with the flow of the game, and how players can, and do abuse it to varying degrees, then stand by Riot Gaming as long as they protect your own interests.
this is prince xizor level paranoia right here
Riot Gaming has always been piss-poor at handling competition side of things, but they do put up a good show. How is this paranoia? Are you going to address my points, or are you going to slander me because you don't feel like talking this through?
On September 23 2013 22:03 oneofthem wrote: i don't think riot is doing any conspiracies, but they also are not perfectly able to enforce any rules about pausing, specifically whether a complaint is legit or not. sometimes a mouse can stop working then come back online, or at least a player can claim that.
exactly
it's fine to call for a different set of rules for this kind of stuff based on principle - and perhaps they should be in place, it's not unreasonable
but when there are no rules in place and you're uncertain of the actual scenario, it's in poor taste to jump to the conclusion that a team is acting maliciously. basically you can go innocent until proven guilty or you can be a PX level paranoid asshat and complain every time something happens
comparing this to the sound booths is ridiculous considering we actually have multiple players from many teams stating they can hear sounds that affect their performance when they have no conflict of interest in saying so (for games that happened long ago, retired people, etc.)
On September 23 2013 21:56 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:52 Letmelose wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:43 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote:
On September 23 2013 21:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: have you considered that what he does looks weird because he was having technical difficulties...?
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
What was San doing during those 17 seconds? He wasn't even farming, or even buying items, and if something went wrong, he would have felt it before he recalled when he was busy farming and harassing. If something was wrong all the time, and there were no other incentives, San would have paused without waiting for 17 seconds, and if something went wrong after the recall, I'm not sure how he could have known considering he was doing nothing but sitting still in his base for the exact few seconds when the mid-lane battle occured.
You can rationalize it anyway you want, but it was a distasteful pause that I'm almost certain was calculated on the part of San to some degree. The question of whether it made a difference or not does not matter, since the intent was malicious to begin with.
Riot sticks people in the booths to monitor for these kinds of things and there were zero complaints lodged and there was no one actually involved who said it was suspicious. The only complaints I've seen are from random keyboard warriors such as yourself
randomly accusing players of malicious conduct based on pure speculation with no proof is what's actually in poor taste
Riot doesn't want the image of their poorly run tournament to be tainted. Some authority they are on the subject, and it's hilarious that you think what they have to say holds any weight. If you are fine on the issue of inappropriate pauses interfering with the flow of the game, and how players can, and do abuse it to varying degrees, then stand by Riot Gaming as long as they protect your own interests.
this is prince xizor level paranoia right here
Riot Gaming has always been piss-poor at handling competition side of things, but they do put up a good show. How is this paranoia? Are you going to address my points, or are you going to slander me because you don't feel like talking this through?
your points are stupid because they basically consist of "i think this is suspicious, but no one can prove anything either way, so HAH i'm right cause you can't prove anything"
On September 23 2013 22:01 Letmelose wrote:
Practice makes perfect.
Like this shit^
u srs? you're basically accusing a team of practicing systematic cheating lol
either put up some proof or stop making baseless accusations
On September 23 2013 21:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: have you considered that what he does looks weird because he was having technical difficulties...?
Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
What was San doing during those 17 seconds? He wasn't even farming, or even buying items, and if something went wrong, he would have felt it before he recalled when he was busy farming and harassing. If something was wrong all the time, and there were no other incentives, San would have paused without waiting for 17 seconds, and if something went wrong after the recall, I'm not sure how he could have known considering he was doing nothing but sitting still in his base for the exact few seconds when the mid-lane battle occured.
You can rationalize it anyway you want, but it was a distasteful pause that I'm almost certain was calculated on the part of San to some degree. The question of whether it made a difference or not does not matter, since the intent was malicious to begin with.
Then San will be a god. Knowing that he pause will cancel Faker auto attack but not affecting Cool Move, and standing under tower for 2 seconds instead of following lovelin or calling lovelin comeback.
Personally, I don't think the first one was suspicious but the second one was suspicious. However; in China, the Chinese communities are much harsher than anyone. The curse from Baidu users are 100 times harsher than reddit/inven.(And he had already been cursed because he was considered the weakest member of OMG) Misaya was almost retired due to the curse. More importantly, this is a show match, if he did it intentionally, i will rate his IQ and EQ<0 and ask him to retire. Anyway, I did understand what you were thinking and wanted Riot give an official statement.
Practice makes perfect. From what I've seen, the Chinese scene is plagued with technical difficulties, and although it's not widespread, I've heard rumours of certain players abusing these scenarios by bending to rules as much as they can.
There are zero methods of proving that the competitive integrity of the games that involved Team Solo Mid was hurt by the lack of sound-proof booths, and the idiots in the crowd that tried to give their favourite team an advantage by shouting things out. However, it is something that should be prevented, and something that Riot Gaming should watch out for. It is the same with the inappropriate pauses. It cannot be used strategically, so we can see who is truly the best, not who is the best at pausing at clutch times, or hearing out for what the crowd shouts out.
Seriously, if people aren't concerned with how the tournament is being run, and just cares about cool storylines, and doesn't want me to "ruin" the fun, then don't pretend this is something that it is not. Stop pretending that everything is fine because official statements have been stated, because we can clearly see there are problems at hand, and it is an issue that needs to be addressed if competitive integrity is to be maintained. Oh wait, that's already been thrown out the window. Carry on.
Of course it will carry on. No one will care the people only believe their speculations instead of evidences. By considering your evidence, I started to doubt San action. If Riot can provide some evidences such as San's scenes, I will remove my doubt. However, I will believe Riot Referee's IQ, who checked San's computer during that match.
On September 23 2013 22:03 oneofthem wrote: i don't think riot is doing any conspiracies, but they also are not perfectly able to enforce any rules about pausing, specifically whether a complaint is legit or not. sometimes a mouse can stop working then come back online, or at least a player can claim that.
On September 23 2013 22:03 oneofthem wrote: i don't think riot is doing any conspiracies, but they also are not perfectly able to enforce any rules about pausing, specifically whether a complaint is legit or not. sometimes a mouse can stop working then come back online, or at least a player can claim that.
exactly
it's fine to call for a different set of rules for this kind of stuff based on principle - and perhaps they should be in place, it's not unreasonable
but when there are no rules in place and you're uncertain of the actual scenario, it's in poor taste to jump to the conclusion that a team is acting maliciously. basically you can go innocent until proven guilty or you can be a PX level paranoid asshat and complain every time something happens
comparing this to the sound booths is ridiculous considering we actually have multiple players from many teams stating they can hear sounds that affect their performance when they have no conflict of interest in saying so (for games that happened long ago, retired people, etc.)
There are past accounts of pause timings being abused in competitive gaming. It's something that needs to be addressed.
By the way, according to your logic, Team Solo Mid is exempt from all scrutiny from any advantages they might have gotten in this tournament because there are no absolute proof that any of their specific plays were based upon the noticable calls from the crowd. I cannot raise an issue with the obviously unhanded nature of these scenarios because I might hurt the feelings of an OMG fan, because apparently associating any negative implications to a team is much more hurtful than the actions of that goes within the tournament that actually impact the plays in the game in ways they weren't meant to.
Seriously, you're asking me to let it go. Okay fine, but don't state that the situation was totally legitimate in every single way, because of some random PR statement from the team. I won't raise a shitstorm, and you won't try to sugar-coat it? Deal? Seriously, I'm sick of your petty slandering, and you have done nothing to contribute except go gung-ho in your attempt to defend your teams honour.
On September 23 2013 22:18 oneofthem wrote: they should do it like bw where only ingame referees can pause.
The one insightful post in a series of name calling, all sentiments and zero-substance to-and-fro posts that I've been a part of. You managed to bring more useful content in your one sentence than the entire mind-numbing, meaningless ordeal I had to put up here.
On September 23 2013 22:18 oneofthem wrote: they should do it like bw where only ingame referees can pause.
The one insightful post in a series of name calling, all sentiments and zero-substance to-and-fro posts that I've been a part of. You managed to bring more useful content in your one sentence than the entire mind-numbing, meaningless ordeal I had to put up here.
i called your claim stupid (because it was)
you proceeded to call me, directly and indirectly across multiple posts, pitiful, a slanderer, petty, etc., (not to mention accusing a team of being, essentially, cheaters, which is a pretty big fucking deal and a pretty bold claim) and you're suddenly offended by "name-calling," when you're basically the only one who has engaged in it?
hell you're still doing it after claiming to "let it go" lol
you're not the victim getting ganged up by the evil forces of blind omg fanboys here, you're the instigator, and you put yourself in that role by, again, randomly calling a team cheaters and expecting everyone to just nod and agree with you
On September 23 2013 22:38 niukasu1990 wrote: I just cannot figure out the purpose of that 'intentional' second pause. Wanna kill faker in a show match? seems legit.
On September 23 2013 22:07 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Like this shit^
u srs? you're basically accusing a team of practicing systematic cheating lol
either put up some proof or stop making baseless accusations
money is involved, lots of money, lots of exposure. hell, people pay to have fucking followers on twitter, which essentially is cheating and you coat your patriotic feelings in some kind of idealistic thought of sportsmanship, that doesnt exist anywhere money is thrown around.
money is involved, lots of money, lots of exposure. hell, people pay to have fucking followers on twitter, which essentially is cheating and you coat your patriotic feelings in some kind of idealistic thought of sportsmanship, that doesnt exist anywhere money is thrown around.
nowhere did i deny that sometimes, people cheat
but just because some people sometimes cheat doesn't mean you get to go call a team cheaters without proof
On September 23 2013 22:18 oneofthem wrote: they should do it like bw where only ingame referees can pause.
The one insightful post in a series of name calling, all sentiments and zero-substance to-and-fro posts that I've been a part of. You managed to bring more useful content in your one sentence than the entire mind-numbing, meaningless ordeal I had to put up here.
i called your claim stupid (because it was)
you proceeded to call me, directly and indirectly across multiple posts, pitiful, a slanderer, petty, etc., (not to mention accusing a team of being, essentially, cheaters, which is a pretty big fucking deal and a pretty bold claim) and you're suddenly offended by "name-calling," when you're basically the only one who has engaged in it?
hell you're still doing it after claiming to "let it go" lol
you're not the victim getting ganged up by the evil forces of blind omg fanboys here, you're the instigator, and you put yourself in that role by, again, randomly calling a team cheaters and expecting everyone to just nod and agree with you
On September 23 2013 22:38 niukasu1990 wrote: I just cannot figure out the purpose of that 'intentional' second pause. Wanna kill faker in a show match? seems legit.
cheaters gonna cheat old habits die hard etc etc
very legit
I really didn't want to continue this conversation, but since I'm a sucker for self-punishment, I'll just repeat myself ad-infinitum until you get it.
You never even touched upon the circumstantial evidence I've put forth, and instead relied on the lack of official statements from Riot Gaming, and the statements from OMG to point out that there aren't any incriminating evidence available. Well, no shit Sherlock, that's why it's a problem like with the listening to the crowd chants or calls, because despite unintended the influence it could have on the game, Riot Gaming has failed to implement any fail safe devices against it, and won't act upon it unless something shamelessly blatant happens (which I agree isn't the case here, but it's definitely suspicious, and distasteful as hell).
It's so frustrating to point out the wrong details you've put forth (you didn't even watch the games, and seem to have drawn out all the excuses in your mind already without even knowing the details), and explain why the circumstances involved are most likely malicious, and why it should be prevented, only to hear useless statements I already know such as the point that Riot Gaming has not released a statement, or there are no methods of knowing for sure whether San was intentional with the timing of his pauses.
All you repeated was how paranoid I was and why nothing can be known for sure. It's like you believe everything is alright as long as Riot Gaming says it's okay. Since when were they beyond question? Why are you putting so much trust in the players despite all of the circumstantial evidence all of the sudden? If there are outside-the-game factors that can be misused, and certain incidence where it may have occured repeats itself, why is it so rude to mention it, especially when there are methods in which we can erase all doubt altogether? I would have been willing to put up with any jabs against the Koreans if Riot Gaming stuck to their stupid policy of having a giant minimap a shoulder's glance away of the players involved, just to see it go away for the good of the competition. Are you that worried any slights or accusations against OMG to the degree no one can mention any pause-related abuses in order to get rid of it in the future, despite the fact that OMG has been involved in more suspicious cases of it (intentional or not, they are personal judgements) than any other team thus far?
Like someone already mentioned, the timing of the pause should never be in the hands of the players anyhow, and it's stupid of Riot Gaming to let the players decide for themselves. Until then, unless we point out suspicious incidents such as this (especially if there are PR statements being posted here to pretend nothing happened and this isn't an issue), there is no stopping even worse things from happening. Seriously, is that the most important thing to you here, whether or not I'm questioning the moral integrity of San or Dyrus, or whichever player you happen to like?
Is there not even the slightest bit of you that makes you wonder whether San truly needed those 17 seconds to decide whether he needed to pause the moment he started to recall, and wasn't tempted at all to gain (consciously or not) some sort of advantage for his team with the timing of his pauses? Are you so sure that any of the past incidences similar to the game in question weren't of a similar nature? Or do you simply not care whether they do it or not as long as they're not caught, because that's what matters in the end. Innocent until proven guilty. Why are you mad at me for calling a suspicious set of circumstances for what they are, and if these weren't incriminating enough for you, don't you at least agree that Riot Gaming has been thoroughly incompetent at preventing something that could be stopped way beforehand? That's my point here. This cannot be abused anymore whether San really did mean to or not. Same with the listening to the crowd calls. Same with looking at the the broadasting screens. If you were offended by the tone in which I described San, then I'm sorry for calling him out on what I believe he is. Of course I'm not certain, but guess what, I'm pretty sure I'm right, and if you weren't so attatched to what you believe to be the mantra of "innocent until proven guilty", you would be suspicious too if you were fully aware of the details.
money is involved, lots of money, lots of exposure. hell, people pay to have fucking followers on twitter, which essentially is cheating and you coat your patriotic feelings in some kind of idealistic thought of sportsmanship, that doesnt exist anywhere money is thrown around.
nowhere did i deny that sometimes, people cheat
but just because some people sometimes cheat doesn't mean you get to go call a team cheaters without proof
well, to me and to others it looks like you're in denial. and you get to call anyone anything without proof, this is no courtroom and nobody is demanding punishment. you probably shouldn't have been so quick to jump in, more so the way you did it, trying to shut people up is never a good idea, even (or especially) in a position of power.
I still think arguing about the fact that OMG used the pause to cheat is the dumbest thing Reddit came up with recently. There is no evidence or whatsoever which proves that. Its just dumb. Your concern that players can pause is valid though. Should be in the hands of the Riot observer.
money is involved, lots of money, lots of exposure. hell, people pay to have fucking followers on twitter, which essentially is cheating and you coat your patriotic feelings in some kind of idealistic thought of sportsmanship, that doesnt exist anywhere money is thrown around.
nowhere did i deny that sometimes, people cheat
but just because some people sometimes cheat doesn't mean you get to go call a team cheaters without proof
well, to me and to others it looks like you're in denial. and you get to call anyone anything without proof, this is no courtroom and nobody is demanding punishment. you probably shouldn't have been so quick to jump in, more so the way you did it, trying to shut people up is never a good idea, even (or especially) in a position of power.
i mean im not telling anyone how to think or change their opinions, but if you get opine and say stupid things i get to opine and call you out for saying stupid shit, free speech goes both ways
letmelose got all offended that i called his viewpoint stupid, so either stop making comments that get you called stupid or back up your comments
On September 24 2013 00:02 Chexx wrote: I still think arguing about the fact that OMG used the pause to cheat is the dumbest thing Reddit came up with recently. There is no evidence or whatsoever which proves that. Its just dumb. Your concern that players can pause is valid though. Should be in the hands of the Riot observer.
Yeah this is a real concern and a totally legitimate topic for discussion, but people are just using it as a veneer to randomly bash on players ~_~
as niukasu pointed out, i'd be a lot more inclined to entertain your suspicions if not for the fact that it happened in what amounts to an inconsequential showmatch with no money on the line and nothing at stake except maybe some temporary pride that will be overwhelmed by actual playoff performance anyways
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
One things for sure, you can't have manager/anyone affiliated with the team during the matches come up to the players to talk. I know the translator was hired locally and isn't associated with OMG, but then you can't be wearing a piece of clothing that suggests you are supporting or working for OMG, if anything she should have a riot employee shirt on for the tournament or else people are going to speculate.
On September 24 2013 00:24 UnKooL wrote: One things for sure, you can't have manager/anyone affiliated with the team during the matches come up to the players to talk. I know the translator was hired locally and isn't associated with OMG, but then you can't be wearing a piece of clothing that suggests you are supporting or working for OMG, if anything she should have a riot employee shirt on for the tournament or else people are going to speculate.
I think this is where a lot of the misunderstanding is coming from.
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
SKT cheated. Fucked with San's mouse to force pause so that Ezreal could ult.
This whole drama is stupid. Both SKT and OMG got an "advantage" from the pause. Suggesting a team cheated in a game that didn't mean anything is just silly especially when there's virtually no evidence that looks like cheating.
Honestly, these accusations are pretty ridiculous and insulting OMG's intelligence. Even if you DO practice cheating, then you don't cheat in an inconsequential match, that is retarded. Please.
Even if TSM did dodge ganks because of being warned by the audience, it's not their responsibility to make sure the match can't be affected by unfair factors. Thinking about what you should do to be fair if you hear a warning is too fking confusing and distracting during a game.
it's fucking stupid lol SKT probably came out higher ahead in that engagement than they would have if piglet had missed his ultimate (which the pause may have helped), unless you think cool would have missed his q and an auto otherwise (possible, but unlikely for a player of his caliber).
of course the timing of the pause will give way for uncertainty and suspicions, but we have the rest of the tournament to watch OMG. if these types of pauses continue occurring, despite the truth of the situations, the suspicions will continue to build. if they don't, we should give them the benefit of the doubt. as was mentioned, this game was entirely for the teams' individual prides etc. while you might argue that this means something, i doubt OMG is stupid enough to cheat in the entry stages of a tournament so big for their careers and prize purses.
i just dont like the philosophy most people portray in this thread, and generally, are going by, which basically comes down to: "i always try to play fair and thus deserve all my wins in life, losses are easier to deal with if you have the feeling of having done everything right anyway. then i close my eyes and believe wholeheartedly everyone else around me plays by the same set of moral standards."
scip raises a good point, its not the players responsibility to not try to gain the most advantage out of any kind of situation they face, but the organizers to ensure there's as little room as possible for false play. but please, stop behaving like naive teenagers, on this forum alone there have been countless incidents with well-known and sometimes even respected members of the community trying to gain unfair advantages in a competition, most times not even worth money or neglectable fame. people risk everything, everyday to be the first, the biggest, the best. how much money is at stakes again for winning worlds? yeah, nobody would ever cheat, because its an inconsequential match, wat? i will retreat from this thread after this post, but really, greed, pride and all these good shades of human character are what makes people risk everything for apparently inconsequential shit.
btw: i don't think it was cheating in this particular case, but a team with a history of pausing in dubious moments doesnt get the benefit of doubt so easily anymore
On September 23 2013 20:44 Letmelose wrote: There are various posts on this subject, and if we go in detail, there is little doubt that the timings of the pauses were at least calculated on the part of OMG, even if we are to believe that the technical difficulties were indeed there. You only need to replay the movements of San to notice that there is something off, in both of the games that were brought into question.
Is it against the regulations? Perhaps not, but it is in extremely bad taste, and people really don't appreciate OMG making a habbit out of this.
but how do you communicate when to pause?
I personally believe that in both of the cases, San took a couple of seconds to spectate what was going on, and paused what he thought would be the most advantageous timing for his team, regardless of what else went on during those games. Pauses and technical difficulties are much more common in the Chinese scene, and it has become a second nature for some of these players to get some advantages out of these situations.
If you have a problem, pause the game without trying to gain something on the side. That's all I'm asking.
For the most part, most of your posts are pretty high quality, then I read this shit, and I'm like whoa, is this PX?
On September 24 2013 00:50 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: . how much money is at stakes again for winning worlds? yeah, nobody would ever cheat, because its an inconsequential match, wat?
The main point being brought here is that both OMG and SKT have already secured advancement from groups, and there is no advantage to being a higher seed, so there actually was nothing on the line for these teams for this particular game other than pride.
People have been complaining about the pauses? I thought people just made some jokes about the timings half-seriously then moved on. There were only 2 instances where I can think of were a pause potentially could have been strategic but if you take into account how many pauses overall went on then its bound to happen.
What I want to know is: What the hell is up with Korean/Chinese equipment that makes it fuck up so much? Is it just some incompatibility with Asian hardware with whatever Riot has set up? Asian teams have paused a fuck ton more then EU/NA ones so its something with the hardware that Asian teams brought conflicting?
On September 24 2013 01:07 Slaughter wrote: People have been complaining about the pauses? I thought people just made some jokes about the timings half-seriously then moved on. There were only 2 instances where I can think of were a pause potentially could have been strategic but if you take into account how many pauses overall went on then its bound to happen.
What I want to know is: What the hell is up with Korean/Chinese equipment that makes it fuck up so much? Is it just some incompatibility with Asian hardware with whatever Riot has set up? Asian teams have paused a fuck ton more then EU/NA ones so its something with the hardware that Asian teams brought conflicting?
No, Koreans and Chinese like to cheat. First Woong, now San, clearly both races have cheating in their blood. That's why Riot rigged the drafting system to systematically try and remove as many koreans and chinese teams as possible.
can we accuse TSM for purposefully throwing yet? PS: The Koreans cheated last year and they are going to this year too PSS: The Chinese are cheating by using Dyrus' sense of honor to force him to die to ganks despite crowdhack wheras he would have avoided the ganks with his game sense otherwise PSSS: Riot purposefully rigged their Quarterfinal brackets to guarantee Western Teams advancing PSSSS: NA teams have historically been colluding with one another, its assumed that they are still doing so now
On September 24 2013 01:14 Slaughter wrote: I actually seriously want to know why Asian teams seem to be having such difficulty and why Riot didn't prepare for this beforehand.
According to letmelose, it's to allow for excuses so they can practice their systematic cheating.
seriously though, I dunno. Could just be crappy asian hardware, or some coding stuff not working well with Windows, or maybe weird cross client issues (KR client playing with CN client)?
On September 24 2013 00:31 Scip wrote: Honestly, these accusations are pretty ridiculous and insulting OMG's intelligence. Even if you DO practice cheating, then you don't cheat in an inconsequential match, that is retarded. Please.
The most absurd thing is the people on Reddit pointing to BW match-fixing as a way for a team to have a vested interest in the outcome of an inconsequential match.
On September 24 2013 01:17 wei2coolman wrote: the HDD hotswap sounds like a good idea tho.
Wouldn't solve hardware malfunction.
Even TI3 had hardware issues despite these kinds of precautions.
HDD hotswaps are brilliant, it's like magic. I can't think of a more practical way to load up your settings than just plugging something into the computer and having it instantly do just that.
But yeah, it doesn't prevent hardware malfunction, it just makes it much faster and much less stressful to get your settings right whenever you sit down. Also very good at inspiring awe.
On September 24 2013 00:31 Scip wrote: Honestly, these accusations are pretty ridiculous and insulting OMG's intelligence. Even if you DO practice cheating, then you don't cheat in an inconsequential match, that is retarded. Please.
The most absurd thing is the people on Reddit pointing to BW match-fixing as a way for a team to have a vested interest in the outcome of an inconsequential match.
The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote: The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote: The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
Yeah this seems really obvious. If you have an equipment malfunction then you request a pause and the referee will pause the game as soon as there is no action.
On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote: The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
I'm not sure LoL has referee mode where referee can pause the game themselves.
On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote: The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
Yeah this seems really obvious. If you have an equipment malfunction then you request a pause and the referee will pause the game as soon as there is no action.
The funny thing is, I watched bw for years and I have never seen a case which someone's mouse malfunctions.
On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote: The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
Does spectator mode allow the spectator to pause?
I am not sure. Most certainly our spectator mode can't because it is 3 kinutes delayed.
On September 24 2013 01:25 koreasilver wrote: ITT: baseless speculation that attempts to legitimize itself through nothing but browbeating
real legit
it's like 2 people speculating, and rest of us saying "innocent until proven guilty".
Yeah, that's what I meant. We have much more level headed posters than the crazy mouthfrothing ones. If you've ever read letmelose's BW posts you can immediately see that he's one of those sensationalist Korean netizen types which is a real bore.
On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote: The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
Yeah this seems really obvious. If you have an equipment malfunction then you request a pause and the referee will pause the game as soon as there is no action.
It gets sort of muddled when there are issues during a fight where one of the directly-affected players is in the fight. Particularly since letting the fight play out to the end before pausing when a player has legitimate equipment malfunction probably negatively affects the outcome of the fight more than a pause would.
Ok how about this. When you click pause, it doesn't pause immediately and instead pauses 5 seconds later.. and everyone can see that the game is about to pause.
On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote: The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
Yeah this seems really obvious. If you have an equipment malfunction then you request a pause and the referee will pause the game as soon as there is no action.
The funny thing is, I watched bw for years and I have never seen a case which someone's mouse malfunctions.
To be fair, KeSPA has more experience than Riot. You didn't have ten people in one game. You didn't have keyboards and mice from different regions all being plugged in and out of the same PCs.
But yes, the malfunctions seem to occur much more often than they should be. Riot should try and figure out a way to avoid this for S4. Whether it's copying TI3 or something else I dunno.
On September 24 2013 01:52 Sufficiency wrote: Ok how about this. When you click pause, it doesn't pause immediately and instead pauses 5 seconds later.. and everyone can see that the game is about to pause.
If your mouse died or something and you got a pause the other team could easily kill you, or nearly kill you, in the five seconds that you are incapable of moving.
Not allowing pauses or overly restricting them is not a good idea. Imagine how shitty worlds could end if in the deciding match Cool had another mouse malfunction and everything went to shit because of it. Riot would not get to see the morning sun for all the pitchforks in their eyes. Yes, it can be somewhat abuseable (referees deciding whether a pause is/isn't justified prevents obvious abuse), but it is better than any of the alternatives.
On September 24 2013 01:54 overt wrote: But yes, the malfunctions seem to occur much more often than they should be. Riot should try and figure out a way to avoid this for S4. Whether it's copying TI3 or something else I dunno.
TI3 had hardware malfunctions as well. At this point, the number that occurred at Worlds has not been to the point of being outrageous for me.
TI2 had very few malfunctions, but given that a couple did occur at TI3, I'm inclined to think that was somewhat lucky.
On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote: The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
Yeah this seems really obvious. If you have an equipment malfunction then you request a pause and the referee will pause the game as soon as there is no action.
The funny thing is, I watched bw for years and I have never seen a case which someone's mouse malfunctions.
...
not sure if srs
bw had plenty of technical difficulties of all sorts...
On September 24 2013 01:54 overt wrote: If your mouse died or something and you got a pause the other team could easily kill you, or nearly kill you, in the five seconds that you are incapable of moving.
It works if you have some sort of judging where if it's deemed that the pause adversely affected the outcome of the game (e.g. he died or lost a fight because his mouse malfunctioned), you load from a save.
Obviously it sucks to have to load from a save, but it's fairer than playing out the game after that point.
Loading from a save doesn't work because one of the teams could gain information they would have not gotten otherwise. Instapausing is about as good as it gets.
On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote: The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
Yeah this seems really obvious. If you have an equipment malfunction then you request a pause and the referee will pause the game as soon as there is no action.
The funny thing is, I watched bw for years and I have never seen a case which someone's mouse malfunctions.
...
not sure if srs
bw had plenty of technical difficulties of all sorts...
Sorry for exaggerating this, but I do feel there is rarely any sort of mouse issues.
Simply put, because pausing is hard and disadvantageous, players actually have the incentive to check their equipments.
On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote: The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
Yeah this seems really obvious. If you have an equipment malfunction then you request a pause and the referee will pause the game as soon as there is no action.
The funny thing is, I watched bw for years and I have never seen a case which someone's mouse malfunctions.
...
not sure if srs
bw had plenty of technical difficulties of all sorts...
Yeah, so many times I wake up at 4am to watch OSL and after all the technical difficulties the games don't start until 6am. QQ
On September 24 2013 01:28 Sufficiency wrote: The real problem is that riot is too lenient on pauses. It should be like bw where you type ppp to pause, and only the obs can pause. This pausing thing is getting out of hands.
Yeah this seems really obvious. If you have an equipment malfunction then you request a pause and the referee will pause the game as soon as there is no action.
The funny thing is, I watched bw for years and I have never seen a case which someone's mouse malfunctions.
...
not sure if srs
bw had plenty of technical difficulties of all sorts...
I've worked many tournaments the past couple years, some with riot as well (MLG) and the biggest problem are the usb ports. When you have special keyboards that light up and require 2 usb ports for power, that's when you start to have usb power problems that affect keyboard mouse and not the computer itself. I've had many problems dealing with this issue over the past couple years and this is not so uncommon as you think. It doesn't help that multiple people are installing/unistalling drivers every time they get on a computer. I would think it could also cause some of the mouse/keyboard issues when the people who get on don't unistall everything successfully. The usb 3.0 is also sketchy, many devices have problems with it overall.
On September 24 2013 02:18 Scip wrote: LOL, the pause where someone just bolted out of the stage to piss was hilarious. Who was it, Zorozero?
yea, personally, that's teh kind of pause that needs to have some penalty. the onus is on you, the player, to be prepared to play the game. Piss before the game ffs.
Hardware malfunctions happen and there's not much anyone can really do. Still, I don't think players should be allowed to pause. They should request a pause and a ref/obs should be the one pausing. This prevents players from tactical pausing regardless if there was a legitimate reason or not. It'll also give Riot and teams better defense against the paranoid keyboard warriors like Letmelose (Chinese teams practice tactical pauses lol real)
On September 24 2013 01:57 Scip wrote: Not allowing pauses or overly restricting them is not a good idea. Imagine how shitty worlds could end if in the deciding match Cool had another mouse malfunction and everything went to shit because of it. Riot would not get to see the morning sun for all the pitchforks in their eyes. Yes, it can be somewhat abuseable (referees deciding whether a pause is/isn't justified prevents obvious abuse), but it is better than any of the alternatives.
Riot would get pitchforks if a pause happens regardless.
Letting players pause is too abusable, especially with so much $$$ on the line. Best solution, imo, is to only allow referees to pause and no talking during pauses. This way, refs can basically make a judgement of whether pausing at that moment in time will adversely affect the game. For example, in the Cool/Faker scenario, the person who needs the pause is San who was in absolutely no danger. he can request pause, ref can let the Cool/Faker fight play out, then pause. San wasn't doing shit during that time anyways and he was basically 100% safe. If, however, someone's hardware or w/e dies during a critical moment like a teamfight, the only way to really be fair is to use a load/save system. If you let players insta-pause themselves, this will be abused even if they don't intend it to be tactical. Giving players extra seconds to react is huge and absolutely game-changing, especially in a game where everyone has Flash and Thresh lantern is a thing.
I agree that load/save gives teams info they wouldn't have otherwise and that is a problem, but this solution has a much lower chance of deciding the game, whereas giving players a few extra seconds to react to that game changing skillshot or initiate can easily end the game.
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause.
The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time.
personally i think it was a rather intentional pause because of the conspicuous timing and previous record of similar behavior, but it's not a big game so w/e. stuff like this should be prevented in the future. it's not only to prevent abuse, but controversy about pausing and technical fuck ups.
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause.
The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time.
a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over.
b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy).
For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly.
Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto).
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause.
The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time.
a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over.
b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy).
For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly.
Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto).
TLDR: You're a lunatic.
We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it.
Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not.
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause.
The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time.
a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over.
b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy).
For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly.
Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto).
TLDR: You're a lunatic.
We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it.
Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not.
I dunno. I watch plenty of pro-streams, and you'd be surprised how much stuff they miss on whats going on in the map. They'll be like "whoa, this person got a kill?" "since when did Kat become 6-0?". Seriously, at this point, you might as way say Riot rigged the quarterfinal draws, cuz "subconscious signalling" by Red Beard to force Royal to draw OMG.
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause.
The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time.
a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over.
b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy).
For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly.
Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto).
TLDR: You're a lunatic.
We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it.
Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not.
If San was watching mid-lane and intentionally paused to gain an advantage, then he did it at the WORST fucking time. Why didn't he pause when Faker ignited Cool? Or when he blew his first ult charge? Pause right after any of those, and you can let Cool realise the all-in is going to happen.
But... nope, he pauses AFTER Faker has used every single skill-shot and right BEFORE Cool used his combo. It was the absolute worst timing, he startled Cool and gave Faker a chance to dodge Cool's counter all-in, and gave Piglet the chance to snipe Cool off.
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause.
The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time.
a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over.
b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy).
For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly.
Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto).
TLDR: You're a lunatic.
We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it.
Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not.
If San was watching mid-lane and intentionally paused to gain an advantage, then he did it at the WORST fucking time. Why didn't he pause when Faker ignited Cool? Or when he blew his first ult charge? Pause right after any of those, and you can let Cool realise the all-in is going to happen.
But... nope, he pauses AFTER Faker has used every single skill-shot and right BEFORE Cool used his combo. It was the absolute worst timing, he startled Cool and gave Faker a chance to dodge Cool's counter all-in, and gave Piglet the chance to snipe Cool off.
That's actually what I was thinking. I actually thought that the pause gave SKT a pretty big advantage because it gave Piglet/Faker enough time to decide if they wanted the call for the ezrael ult.
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause.
The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time.
a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over.
b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy).
For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly.
Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto).
TLDR: You're a lunatic.
We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it.
Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not.
I dunno. I watch plenty of pro-streams, and you'd be surprised how much stuff they miss on whats going on in the map. They'll be like "whoa, this person got a kill?" "since when did Kat become 6-0?". Seriously, at this point, you might as way say Riot rigged the quarterfinal draws, cuz "subconscious signalling" by Red Beard to force Royal to draw OMG.
San wasn't busy doing anything, and wouldn't a player that had just recalled usually does take notice of what is going on in the map in order to judge where to go? Judging by the movements of the rest of the team (changing their directions in order to help Cool), even if San so terribly occupied by his technical difficulties that he didn't have time to realize anything from the moment he recalled to the moment he decided to pause, isn't it kind of likely he would have listened to what the rest of the team were calling out? How likely is it for San at the moment he paused to be completely unaware of what was going on at the time?
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause.
The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time.
a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over.
b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy).
For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly.
Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto).
TLDR: You're a lunatic.
We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it.
Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not.
I dunno. I watch plenty of pro-streams, and you'd be surprised how much stuff they miss on whats going on in the map. They'll be like "whoa, this person got a kill?" "since when did Kat become 6-0?". Seriously, at this point, you might as way say Riot rigged the quarterfinal draws, cuz "subconscious signalling" by Red Beard to force Royal to draw OMG.
San wasn't busy doing anything, and wouldn't a player that had just recalled usually does take notice of what is going on in the map in order to judge where to go? Judging by the movements of the rest of the team (changing their directions in order to help Cool), even if San so terribly occupied by his technical difficulties that he didn't have time to realize anything from the moment he recalled to the moment he decided to pause, isn't it kind of likely he would have listened to what the rest of the team were calling out? How likely is it for San at the moment he paused to be completely unaware of what was going on at the time?
Don't you have to signal for a ref to pause before you pause? If so, it's almost impossible to time the pause to try to get an advantage during the duel.
On September 23 2013 21:34 Letmelose wrote: Piglet fired his ultimate before the pause, by the way, you should really check your facts out before defending your teams. Further more San recalled, then did nothing, not even buying a single item for 17 seconds if you include the moment he decided to recall. Did he really take 17 seconds to realize that something wrong after laning? If something felt wrong before the recall, wouldn't it make sense to pause the game right away? What was he doing all that time? Is it a pure coincidence that his pause was in sync with Ahri's auto-attack animation, and "luckily" cancelled it?
Actually, this is incorrect.
People are pointing to this screenshot, but it's a UI bug that ultimates that are off cooldown appear on full CD in spectator mode. See Jarvan's, Zac's, and Vayne's ults all being on "cooldown" despite the fact that they could not all have just randomly used their ults with no one around. At 17:56 of the VOD you SEE the Ezreal ultimate go on CD after the un-pause.
After reviewing the timings, I believe you may be right, the game was paused at 9:09, and the earliest time of the VOD available for view, 9:10, I can't see the cooldown being set, and by 9:11 the ultimate is already almost reached Cool. The cooldown on Ezreal's ultimate does not go on cooldown because of the second or so animation of the preparation stage, so it would have been possible for Piglet to spam his ultimate immediately after the unpause.
The real reason I was upset at San was not because of the technical difficulties he had, but the moment he decided to pause the game. He recalls back to base, buys no times, starts to walk back to lane but stops dead on the tracks the moment Faker ignites Cool, stands still for a couple of seconds, then decides to pause the game the moment Ahri's auto-attack animation starts off. If he was in such a hurry to pause the game, he could have done it the moment he went back to base, but he was in my eyes clearly influenced by what was going on in the game, and timed the pause pretty much intentionally, which would never happen had it been done by a third person refereeing the game. The players themselves should never be in control of when the pause happens. It can, and has been used to disrupt the natural flow of the game (having some time to think about what to do can change things by so much, expecially during frantic moments), and while pauses themselves are unavoidable, referees should be able to pause it at a more suitable time.
a) Lol at you trying to sound like it requires some forensic investigation to decide whether Ez ulted after the pause or not. Trueshot Barrage is bright fucking yellow when the pause ends, boom discussion over.
b)Did it not occur to you that he may have had his problems start after/during his back? There are multiple realistic scenarios involving a mouse or keyboard failure that could allow him to still back and not notice until he's back/at shop. It almost looks like he goes back to buy, goes to leave fountain with bought items, and realizes he didn't/can't buy them(left click fucked up? tons of people don't right click buy).
For a person so intent on watching the mid fight to pause at the exact correct moment, he sure starts moving again pretty quickly.
Also, Ahri gets the auto off before the pause, and with no aspd she definitely hasn't reached a meaningful point in the next animation to cry pause cancel(especially since he instantly changes directions as the camera swaps back to game, which would cancel his own auto).
TLDR: You're a lunatic.
We're talking about professional gamers here. There is next to zero chance of San not being aware of what was the most urgent situation after he recalled to base and having not moved at all from 9:02 to 9:09, even if he was being distracted by his technical difficulties. Regardless of whatever excuses you may come up with, San has almost for certain knowingly paused the game despite what was going on in the map, and even if his realization that something was wrong by chance coincided with the mid-lane battle, his decision to pause at that exact moment, regardless of whether he intended to gain any secondary benefits or not, was in extremely bad taste. There is absolutely no denying this, and there's also no questioning that such actions should be prevented in the future, so that the flow of the game aren't affected by any factors that weren't meant to influence it.
Twist it any way you want, the decision to pause at the moment from San, whether it was subconscious, intentional, or although very unlikely, purely out of ignorance and bad luck, was in bad taste, and I for one am not looking forward to seeing such things happen again in this tournament. Other tournaments in the past have taken measures to prevent these kind of things from happening, and it's hilarious that you think accusations of this nature should be more frowned upon than the actual choice of the player in question, just because you believe that San was completely unaware of what was going on and the timing of the pause was mere coincidence, or believe that whether or not he knew what was going on, the timing of the pause was just fine. I don't want to see pauses of this nature again, and if you think otherwise, say so, but don't pretend this is something that it's not.
You're hilarious.
That's also an awful lot of words you're putting in my mouth. I almost literally said nothing you say I did. That's pretty impressive.