Didn't want to make a new thread about it. Hopefully a lot more people will get into beta and start testing the crap out of these stuff and we could see more frequent patches too.
LotV Balance Update Now Live (April 15) - Page 16
Forum Index > Legacy of the Void |
Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
Didn't want to make a new thread about it. Hopefully a lot more people will get into beta and start testing the crap out of these stuff and we could see more frequent patches too. | ||
SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
ok, read a little more into it. They are focusing on VT Blizzcon holders for the next few weeks....not just last week, my bad | ||
KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
Oh please! I need lurkers! | ||
ohmylanta1003
United States128 Posts
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Spect8rCraft
649 Posts
On April 18 2015 09:54 ohmylanta1003 wrote: I would just like to say that I hate this community so incredibly much, I can't even begin to explain it. Fuck all your whining, bitching, and moaning. No wonder Blizzard doesn't give a shit about you guys. This is such an incredible game and the people surrounding the game are just fucking ruining it. If they just never released LOTV, I would say we had it coming to us. To calmly retort your statement with your own words: Fuck all your whining, bitching, and moaning. The other, undesirable extreme to infinitesimal complaining is blind yesmanning. Fact of the matter is, there are things right about their finagling around this expansion, but there are also things wrong about it. | ||
ohmylanta1003
United States128 Posts
On April 18 2015 10:10 Spect8rCraft wrote: To calmly retort your statement with your own words: The other, undesirable extreme to infinitesimal complaining is blind yesmanning. Fact of the matter is, there are things right about their finagling around this expansion, but there are also things wrong about it. It's not blind, yo. Every time there is a thread even remotely related to Starcraft, it's littered with people complaining about the current state of the game, theorycrafting through there silver league games (not saying I'm good, just saying most people don't have the skill necessary to properly complain), and shouting blasphemies at Blizzard, the worst fucking company in the whole world (or at least that's what I'm led to believe by everyone here). I'm sick of such a beautiful game being surrounded by such an awful community and I know I'm not the only one. It literally pushes people away from the game, which is the last thing we need. | ||
KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On April 18 2015 09:54 ohmylanta1003 wrote: I would just like to say that I hate this community so incredibly much, Why are you still here then? Good riddance. | ||
Spect8rCraft
649 Posts
On April 18 2015 10:27 ohmylanta1003 wrote: It's not blind, yo. Every time there is a thread even remotely related to Starcraft, it's littered with people complaining about the current state of the game, theorycrafting through there silver league games (not saying I'm good, just saying most people don't have the skill necessary to properly complain), and shouting blasphemies at Blizzard, the worst fucking company in the whole world (or at least that's what I'm led to believe by everyone here). I'm sick of such a beautiful game being surrounded by such an awful community and I know I'm not the only one. It literally pushes people away from the game, which is the last thing we need. I don't know which forum you're using, but there's probably as many threads on TL about rooting for players and general camaraderie as there are fairly toxic ones. And even ones like these, where forumers are clearly disgruntled about changes, orderly and useful feedback can be had. Most of the live report threads are lively; map threads are filled with critiques and beautiful art; in the LotV section, there are several incredibly detailed or floral threads regarding player suggestions, and many forumers are actively testing their own theorycrafted suggestions. Yes, there's gonna be a "dead gaem" post here, a scandal there (real unfortunate, but it's a reality), and some hissyfits every so often. Tough shit; that's the Internet for you. It shouldn't surprise you that forums aren't exactly a positive playing ground, since those who are satisfied with the game are already playing it. Is the game beautiful? Sure. Is it perfect? Hell no. That's what we're here for. We want a better game as much as Blizzard wants LotV to be a successful game. And neither Blizzard nor the community have a particularly good track record when it comes to both balancing and designing units. They have their tools of implementation, and we have ours of suggestion. Neither tools are perfect, and both can be abused. Such is life. Besides, your scathing review of the community does no better at retaining the fanbase than those who actively try to alter the game to a better state. | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5208 Posts
On April 18 2015 03:32 Umpteen wrote: Thanks for further proving my point - which, if you check, was that it makes no sense to say one game punishes and the other rewards. I'll happily take your examples as further support for that. This, too, I'm perfectly happy to agree with. If you read my other posts, I was not in any way suggesting otherwise. I can totally get behind the idea that LotV's half patch system makes the game 'all about dat (next) base'. ALL I was arguing against was the use of 'punish vs reward' because it's a terrible, ambiguous, misleading way to describe what's going on, because it relies entirely on the reader's interpretation of what 'punishment' or 'reward' is relative to. If it happens to match what you intended, understanding will occur. If it doesn't - and it clearly often hasn't - it just gets in the way. Everything everyone writes can be interpreted by people however they want to interpret it, that is free will. My definition of reward and punishment was based purely on behavioral psychology (though it is referred to a reinforcement, not reward, in psychology). So this isn't really left up to interpretation for anyone who submits themselves to science, there is no relativity in these definitions. People confuse punishment and negative reinforcement all the time, but that doesn't mean behaviorists shouldn't use those terms because people are too stupid to understand them. And everyone is free to think what they want, and do whatever they want and talk about how global warming isn't man made, that evolution is a liberal conspiracy or other dumb things... On April 18 2015 09:54 ohmylanta1003 wrote: I would just like to say that I hate this community so incredibly much, I can't even begin to explain it. Fuck all your whining, bitching, and moaning. No wonder Blizzard doesn't give a shit about you guys. This is such an incredible game and the people surrounding the game are just fucking ruining it. If they just never released LOTV, I would say we had it coming to us. ...but for people that submit themselves to science, then there is only one way to interpret what I said, based on the definitions of the words I used. To your other point, a single arbitrary baseline across two games, well seems like a great powerful statement, but this isn't exactly black and white because the games are so incredibly similar. I mean it isn't like we are talking about mini-golf and basketball, this is like we are talking about the NBA and International Basketball which are incredibly similar, though they do have some differences in rules, size of the rim, ect. But the strategies and tactics that work in one, work in the other... Anyway, in this case we are talking about the changes to Starcraft HOTS that will make it into Starcraft LOTV. In this case I think it makes perfect sense to refer to the mineral node changes as a punishing players who don't expand quickly, because they will be losing something they currently have (minerals) if the changes go through and there ability to win games will suffer. That fits the definition of (negative) punishment very well. If you want to keep your income decent, you must expand. And I think the proposed change of the TL Strategy team do the opposite, they reinforce expanding. You don't lose anything you already have in HOTS if you don't expand, but they make it more appealing to expand. If you want to make your income better, you can expand. What you said, which is exactly this: "You are rewarded for expanding in both games, relative to what would happen if you didn't" is completely untrue. You are rewarded for expanding sometimes if the risk pays off in both games. It is not relative to what happens if you didn't, it is in the context of the strategy the other player plays. However LOTV, you are also punished for not expanding far more so than in HOTS. Thats the difference. The reward for expanding is the same, but the punishment for not expanding is much harsher in LOTV, because you run out of half your minerals quite quickly. But that is enough of this semantics argument for me. Take the last word on it. | ||
MrFreeman
207 Posts
On April 15 2015 10:03 KrazyTrumpet wrote: It's ok, no one is even making Tempests anyway. Protoss either dies before they can get there (mostly this) or make Carriers (which are better/more fun) Yep, that is why I have written that it doesn´t help you much, but it is in game and it could be quite frustrating watching your unit slowly die and not being able to do anything about it. Just no chance at all to play the "perfect game" . | ||
TurboMaN
Germany925 Posts
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Icekin
88 Posts
First, they were some gimmicky unit, close to an harass/scout role Now they become a tanky stalker Remove the blink, we got a dragoon :| I would just prefer have dragoons than adepts (and reavers ofc instead of distruptors ) | ||
Grumbels
Netherlands7028 Posts
On April 18 2015 18:11 MrFreeman wrote: Yep, that is why I have written that it doesn´t help you much, but it is in game and it could be quite frustrating watching your unit slowly die and not being able to do anything about it. Just no chance at all to play the "perfect game" . I think that's a good point. Watching your units slowly die without counterplay being available is frustrating, much like how killing free units feels pointless even if it's just a game mechanic. And at least irradiate had some control aspects to it, but with the tempest you'll feel helpless. | ||
FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On April 18 2015 19:38 Grumbels wrote: I think that's a good point. Watching your units slowly die without counterplay being available is frustrating, much like how killing free units feels pointless even if it's just a game mechanic. And at least irradiate had some control aspects to it, but with the tempest you'll feel helpless. sounds like Plaguuuuuu, though it was an AoE and not that powerful, but basically killed 50% of the Protoss army, Tempest ability is basically force an attack, just like abduct etc. But Tempest was basically a bad easy to use Carrier and in the current beta they made the Carrier super easy to control. Still don't like any change, but I like longer games and most changes are supposed to speed up the already fastest Blizzard RTS. They shouldn't make every one of their games have a 20 minute duration xD. But I gonna get it anyway for the CGs an Single player. And for multiplayer luckily there are custom games and gamespeed options. And there is always WoL release version that I still enjoy the most somehow. So it doesn't matter that they can't make it right for everyone. | ||
PostNationalism
35 Posts
On April 18 2015 04:55 BaronVonOwn wrote: You know... We had aggressive play in WoL because of map design. Look at Xel'Naga Caverns and Metalopolis. Community hates those maps now, mainly because protoss cannot survive without being able to turtle. In any case I don't see why we can only have one standard for resources in the map pool. I think there ought to be a diversity of maps with scarce resources, as well as maps reflecting the current HOTS standard, and easy money maps like BGH for the unranked queue. Just give people more vetoes to compensate. Maps are the easiest way to rebalance the game and enable/prevent different playstyles. It's crazy to not make full use of the flexibility they give. exactly. i hate that the teamliquid forum is apparently so biased towards slow and boring macro games that take 20 minutes to wind up. why is their so much opposition to more starting workers??????? does nobody watch streams? the first 5-10 minutes of every single game are boring as fuck..... im sure the players get bored too... | ||
Tresher
Germany404 Posts
On April 18 2015 19:28 TurboMaN wrote: When is the release of the new Terran unit and what will it be? Don´t know the release but DK said it will be a fast air to air fighter with small damage as attack with splash. It can transform into a stationary air unit that attacks ground with 9 range. They want to implement it mostly for Mutas. Hope they change the Thor then. Im pumped for this unit. And people should calm down. Its a beta , it should be clear that they test things out. Im sure most of the people here have not even beta access and judge the game just by watching it. | ||
ohmylanta1003
United States128 Posts
On April 18 2015 13:12 BronzeKnee wrote: Everything everyone writes can be interpreted by people however they want to interpret it, that is free will. My definition of reward and punishment was based purely on behavioral psychology (though it is referred to a reinforcement, not reward, in psychology). So this isn't really left up to interpretation for anyone who submits themselves to science, there is no relativity in these definitions. People confuse punishment and negative reinforcement all the time, but that doesn't mean behaviorists shouldn't use those terms because people are too stupid to understand them. And everyone is free to think what they want, and do whatever they want and talk about how global warming isn't man made, that evolution is a liberal conspiracy or other dumb things... ...but for people that submit themselves to science, then there is only one way to interpret what I said, based on the definitions of the words I used. To your other point, a single arbitrary baseline across two games, well seems like a great powerful statement, but this isn't exactly black and white because the games are so incredibly similar. I mean it isn't like we are talking about mini-golf and basketball, this is like we are talking about the NBA and International Basketball which are incredibly similar, though they do have some differences in rules, size of the rim, ect. But the strategies and tactics that work in one, work in the other... Anyway, in this case we are talking about the changes to Starcraft HOTS that will make it into Starcraft LOTV. In this case I think it makes perfect sense to refer to the mineral node changes as a punishing players who don't expand quickly, because they will be losing something they currently have (minerals) if the changes go through and there ability to win games will suffer. That fits the definition of (negative) punishment very well. If you want to keep your income decent, you must expand. And I think the proposed change of the TL Strategy team do the opposite, they reinforce expanding. You don't lose anything you already have in HOTS if you don't expand, but they make it more appealing to expand. If you want to make your income better, you can expand. What you said, which is exactly this: "You are rewarded for expanding in both games, relative to what would happen if you didn't" is completely untrue. You are rewarded for expanding sometimes if the risk pays off in both games. It is not relative to what happens if you didn't, it is in the context of the strategy the other player plays. However LOTV, you are also punished for not expanding far more so than in HOTS. Thats the difference. The reward for expanding is the same, but the punishment for not expanding is much harsher in LOTV, because you run out of half your minerals quite quickly. But that is enough of this semantics argument for me. Take the last word on it. Lol. At least everyone banded together to shit all over me. I'm so proud of you guys. And I ain't no dummy. I have no idea what would have given you that impression. | ||
ohmylanta1003
United States128 Posts
I'M STILL HERE, LOL! And I plan on staying here to refute the ridiculous shit that people post around these forums. It's gonna be a fun ride. | ||
404AlphaSquad
838 Posts
On April 18 2015 22:27 ohmylanta1003 wrote: I'M STILL HERE, LOL! And I plan on staying here to refute the ridiculous shit that people post around these forums. It's gonna be a fun ride. You wont stay long with this attitude anyway. | ||
ohmylanta1003
United States128 Posts
On April 18 2015 22:35 404AlphaSquad wrote: You wont stay long with this attitude anyway. I'm just expressing my opinion, just like everyone else. So far, I haven't singled any one person out or insulted anyone in anyway that could get me in trouble. However, it seems that I've been called "dumb" by at least one other person so far. I'm sorry my attitude isn't, "Wah Wah Wah, my race sucks and Blizzard doesn't care about me!" | ||
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