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I think it's a problem that the sc2 viewer base, as well as any potential new viewers is being split between LOTV and HOTS. The viewer base isn't large enough in the first place to split it up. How many people honestly keep 2 tabs open with LOTV and HOTS to look for streams?
The hype for Legacy is already dying down, but even when it was going strong in the first 2 weeks, the LOTV viewers weren't spilling over to HOTS and vice versa. Now LOTV looks like a ghost town. This would not be the case if LOTV was part of HOTS on twitch. An easy fix would be to just title LOTV steams "beta" and throw them in the HOTS section. This is going to be a long, long beta. I can only see this problem getting worse.
Thoughts?
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There are currently 122 viewers on twitch watching LOTV streams, the demand for beta streams just isn't there anymore.
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You said it yourself, it's going to be a long long beta. I'd wait awhile and see what happens before making this kind of post.
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honestly dawg I'd rather play the beta (which i don't have access to) than watch a bunch of exhibition games in beta that don't count toward anything, in comparison to watching and enjoying HotS streams (whether individual or tournaments) because it's what is still being played competitively. if they get LotV right and it's fun to watch AND play, then i'm sure the transfer from HotS to LotV will be seamless and everyone gonna be up on the hype train come release
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It's not popular because there's too little people with beta so search queues take forever and there's a mismatch in skill most of the times. Just wait for the 20% to get access and there'll be renewed viewership and streaming.
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On April 26 2015 09:00 Saechiis wrote: It's not popular because there's too little people with beta so search queues take forever and there's a mismatch in skill most of the times. Just wait for the 20% to get access and there'll be renewed viewership and streaming. I bet you're right. But that leaves the main issue in my eyes. No crossover viewership.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
more peeps more beeps amirite?
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The hype wouldn't have died so quickly if LotV was in a better state. I'm actually more worried than I was at Blizzcon because Blizzard keeps saying and showing they listen to the community but none of their decisions reflects that.
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I watch the beta everyday. But at this point most of the popular players do not have access to beta. Hopefully that will change next week with the 20% roll out.
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What Saechiis said and what Wire said.
1) Too few people in the beta. Long queing times, same opponents, no ranked play. Things that have been mentioned over and over again for weeks now. 2) The balance and the resulting gameplay is horrendous. It's not a question of "give it more time", it simply is bad. It is as bad as predicted after blizzcon, if not even worse. To quote Nathanias: "I don't want to make cyclones, but if I don't, I just lose to zergs. When I do, I just win." And Protoss is obviously just fucked. Bio-play is fucked. Enough with the pretending that everything is going to be alright. It's only going to be alright if they make changes asap, so that they can then make changes asap when another thing turns out broken, until eventually the game is in a good state.
The small size of the viewer base might be a problem, though I doubt it too much. People who stream LotV won't stream HotS and vis-verca. The amount of streamers overall won't increase that drastically. The only "problem" I see is that LotV will eventually just kill the interest in HotS streams and tournaments. But that's a necessary process.
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On April 26 2015 11:39 Big J wrote: 2) The balance and the resulting gameplay is horrendous. It's not a question of "give it more time", it simply is bad. It is as bad as predicted after blizzcon, if not even worse. I'm happy to see I'm not the only one concerned... I was beginning to think I was a weirdo. It seems to me everyone is saying that LotV is fresh, goes in the right direction, etc, but many of the features added strike me as plain bad, not even salvageable, and Blizzard's stubbornness to stick with their ideas could really be detrimental to the game.
I will change my mind if the next batch of changes comes rather quick and begins to really address the problems that make the beta experience currently not enjoyable for anyone, but I'm not sure anymore.
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That's because people realize it's more or what of the same and they got bored quickly. Sure there are new economies and there are new units, but after awhile it's pretty much the same thing as HOTS so people got bored.
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What concerns me about StarCraft is:
1. Ravagers don't look StarCraft-ish at all. 2. Everything becomes faster... reaper, medivac, mutalisks, oracles, and something was getting faster in LotV too? Why make it harder for people who defend? 3. Balance is done via numbers instead of gameplay or fun to play match-up. That doesn't mean OP stuff should exist. It means Blizzard should buff only the right strategies which seem fun. 4. Lack of bm management. A lot of people turn messages off from non-friends for that reason. Maybe improve filter or something?
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I don't see how this is an issue. Viewership isn't the concern with LotV; it hasn't even been released yet.
When it is released, it'll take the exact same process as the WoL-HotS transition did.
As for the hype, it's no surprise that the hype has died down. 1) The big problems that hold SC2 back as an e-sport have not been addressed (even though they were pointed out all the way back in WoL) and 2) Blizzard's betas take forever, so the hype always dies down.
The things that are holding SC2 back and that will keep it from being truly "revitalized" are issues with unit interactions/mechanics/pathing; things that are so basic and integral that Blizzard will never have any intention of touching them. It's not just a matter of unit balance, but how this game is designed from its core.
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On April 26 2015 11:53 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 11:39 Big J wrote: 2) The balance and the resulting gameplay is horrendous. It's not a question of "give it more time", it simply is bad. It is as bad as predicted after blizzcon, if not even worse. I'm happy to see I'm not the only one concerned... I was beginning to think I was a weirdo. It seems to me everyone is saying that LotV is fresh, goes in the right direction, etc, but many of the features added strike me as plain bad, not even salvageable, and Blizzard's stubbornness to stick with their ideas could really be detrimental to the game. I will change my mind if the next batch of changes comes rather quick and begins to really address the problems that make the beta experience currently not enjoyable for anyone, but I'm not sure anymore. Agreed
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On April 26 2015 08:58 pajoondies wrote: honestly dawg I'd rather play the beta (which i don't have access to) than watch a bunch of exhibition games in beta that don't count toward anything, in comparison to watching and enjoying HotS streams (whether individual or tournaments) because it's what is still being played competitively. if they get LotV right and it's fun to watch AND play, then i'm sure the transfer from HotS to LotV will be seamless and everyone gonna be up on the hype train come release
Couldn't agree more. I stopped following SC2 and don't watch any streams, but I would give LotV a try just like everyone else.
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As a long time SC2 fan (who watched HotS streams long before it was released) ... I guess this is a good a place as any to leave my thoughts. For me its the 12 worker start.
Just eliminating that early game and hopping, essentially straight into the mid game, has no appeal to me. Zerg has, essentially 2 real builds eliminated (6 pool and 10 pool) ? Also, as a zerg player, my workers are less valuable. If Terran has 12 workers, I need 14 or 16 workers, not 12 myself. Less time for the economies to differentiate means more trouble for Zerg. Getting rid of the super early Zergling rush? yeah. Thats just part of Starcraft.
But it's not just a zerg thing, I enjoy the super early game. even 11/11 rax is precluded. It just seems like they are trying to cater to say, the FPS, FIRST BLOOD KILL KILL audience, and Starcraft isn't about that. Starcraft needs to play to it's strengths and I don't think the 12 worker "boost" does that.
I will play LotV, but as it looks right now I'd probably end up some weirdo who either plays HotS eternally, or, goes back to Brood War. Yeup thats just my thoughts.
I was kind of assuming, noticing what you did about LotV viewership, that my thoughts were not far off of other people. Maybe for different specifics, but the same sort of impression from the game. They are not accenting what I like about starcraft.
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On April 26 2015 13:21 CursOr wrote: As a long time SC2 fan (who watched HotS streams long before it was released) ... I guess this is a good a place as any to leave my thoughts. For me its the 12 worker start.
Just eliminating that early game and hopping, essentially straight into the mid game, has no appeal to me. Zerg has, essentially 2 real builds eliminated (6 pool and 10 pool) ? Also, as a zerg player, my workers are less valuable. If Terran has 12 workers, I need 14 or 16 workers, not 12 myself. Less time for the economies to differentiate means more trouble for Zerg. Getting rid of the super early Zergling rush? yeah. Thats just part of Starcraft.
But it's not just a zerg thing, I enjoy the super early game. even 11/11 rax is precluded. It just seems like they are trying to cater to say, the FPS, FIRST BLOOD KILL KILL audience, and Starcraft isn't about that. Starcraft needs to play to it's strengths and I don't think the 12 worker "boost" does that.
I will play LotV, but as it looks right now I'd probably end up some weirdo who either plays HotS eternally, or, goes back to Brood War. Yeup thats just my thoughts.
I was kind of assuming, noticing what you did about LotV viewership, that my thoughts were not far off of other people. Maybe for different specifics, but the same sort of impression from the game. They are not accenting what I like about starcraft. Just sayan that because of the other economy changes, the zerg now starts stronger than the other reces at early game.
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let the shitstorm continue
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