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I'm not going to state that it's definitely imbalanced but it's trying pretty bloody hard to be imbalanced. Build order's pretty simple, you make 6 raxes and 2 gasses in some order and keep sending reapers at the Zerg, stopping once it seems you can't really attack anymore. Thanks to the grenade queens are much easier to handle and speedlings no longer counter reapers quite as effectively as before. Roaches are good but very expensive and once there's 10-15 reapers out the repeated grenade tossing prevents them from engaging properly.
This build doesn't necessarily kill Zerg outright, though it certainly can, but I'm yet to play a single Zerg that can handle the Reaper onslaught without being significantly behind afterwards. I've provided a bunch of replays displaying the opener, make of them what you will. I'm not entirely convinced the build is completely imbalanced as most of the Zergs I've played I'm pretty sure I'm heavily favoured against in HotS, but hey, I'm not the best Terran in the world either so who knows? What I can say is that the new Reaper grenade threatens to break TvZ early game over it's knee.
I'm as surprised as anyone else that the Reaper was buffed this way. The unit surely needed a bit of help in Legacy since the Early game has significantly changed but I was expecting a few extra hitpoints or damage or a reduced build time or something. It's a well designed unit but it's very finely balanced to the HotS early game and just needs a bit of tweaking to fit into Legacy, not a weird bloody grenade thing.
I also cannot speak as to the Reaper's effectiveness in TvT and TvP as I haven't amassed them there. I'm guessing it's pretty much business as usual since those races have ranged units highly effective at fighting Reapers and dodging grenades but hey who knows?
REPS! http://drop.sc/398248 http://drop.sc/398249 http://drop.sc/398250 http://drop.sc/398251 http://drop.sc/398284 http://drop.sc/398283 http://drop.sc/398282
EDIT- Forgot to mention this the first time so here goes.
As it's a beta and our duty is to break it as hard as possible, I call upon all Terrans to amass Reapers against the Zergs. I'm just one guy, I need more data than my own replay folder. Let's get the reaper changed again people!
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It's beyond hilarious how SC2 is completely stuck in time. Giving such an ability to a unit able to bypass normal terrain as early as 2 minutes while LotV steps on the accelerator, how could it possibly go wrong.
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Sweet, sweet Zergling tears. Have at yee!
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If it helps, here are the actual build orders from these replays:
http://lotv.spawningtool.com/replays/?tag=178
For example,
14 0:18 Supply Depot 15 0:42 Barracks 16 0:45 Refinery 18 1:15 Barracks 19 1:30 Orbital Command 19 1:31 Reaper 20 1:38 Barracks 20 1:45 Refinery 20 1:53 Supply Depot 22 2:04 Reaper 22 2:07 Reaper 24 2:19 Barracks 25 2:34 Reaper 25 2:37 Supply Depot 26 2:41 Reaper 26 2:42 Reaper 29 2:55 Barracks 29 3:00 Barracks
So the build basically looks like what iaguz described.
Cool idea! I think we need builds like this during beta to really under the limits of the game design. Fingers crossed that I get an opportunity to mess around with it myself!
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Katowice25012 Posts
These games are incredible. This is seriously some 2010 "build lots of reapers and run around" level shit, I love it. It's amazing.
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I want to see a youtube video
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Somewhere, Idra wakes up in a cold sweat, sensing a familiar disturbance in the meta that he had not felt since.
He then goes "fuck that" and goes right back to sleep.
I hope they at least move up the ability into an upgrade at a higher tech level.
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Lol great stuff can someone make a youtube video with some of thoes replays?
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eh, >__>;
maybe give each reaper a finite number of grenades after an upgrade. Similar to the vulture w/ spider mines in BW.
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My only hope is that Blizzard does not resort to keeping this ability by only adding an upgrade to it with a factory requirement, cause I am sure nobody will get that, unless you could stim a reaper LOL
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On April 30 2015 09:04 ROOTiaguz wrote:I'm not going to state that it's definitely imbalanced but it's trying pretty bloody hard to be imbalanced. Build order's pretty simple, you make 6 raxes and 2 gasses in some order and keep sending reapers at the Zerg, stopping once it seems you can't really attack anymore. Thanks to the grenade queens are much easier to handle and speedlings no longer counter reapers quite as effectively as before. Roaches are good but very expensive and once there's 10-15 reapers out the repeated grenade tossing prevents them from engaging properly. This build doesn't necessarily kill Zerg outright, though it certainly can, but I'm yet to play a single Zerg that can handle the Reaper onslaught without being significantly behind afterwards. I've provided a bunch of replays displaying the opener, make of them what you will. I'm not entirely convinced the build is completely imbalanced as most of the Zergs I've played I'm pretty sure I'm heavily favoured against in HotS, but hey, I'm not the best Terran in the world either so who knows? What I can say is that the new Reaper grenade threatens to break TvZ early game over it's knee. I'm as surprised as anyone else that the Reaper was buffed this way. The unit surely needed a bit of help in Legacy since the Early game has significantly changed but I was expecting a few extra hitpoints or damage or a reduced build time or something. It's a well designed unit but it's very finely balanced to the HotS early game and just needs a bit of tweaking to fit into Legacy, not a weird bloody grenade thing. I also cannot speak as to the Reaper's effectiveness in TvT and TvP as I haven't amassed them there. I'm guessing it's pretty much business as usual since those races have ranged units highly effective at fighting Reapers and dodging grenades but hey who knows? REPS! http://drop.sc/398248 http://drop.sc/398249 http://drop.sc/398250 http://drop.sc/398251 http://drop.sc/398284http://drop.sc/398283http://drop.sc/398282EDIT- Forgot to mention this the first time so here goes. As it's a beta and our duty is to break it as hard as possible, I call upon all Terrans to amass Reapers against the Zergs. I'm just one guy, I need more data than my own replay folder. Let's get the reaper changed again people!
I'll test it out today. If it is imba obv blizzard will most likely make it a researchable upgrade for mid/late game.
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I think the explosive mines also move FF right now, kind of interesting... lol
I heard someone in my chat say you were testing this vs z. definitely sounds interesting.
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Bisutopia18993 Posts
The reaper mines from WoL beta were epic. Bring those back.
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On April 30 2015 10:05 PowerOfOne wrote: My only hope is that Blizzard does not resort to keeping this ability by only adding an upgrade to it with a factory requirement, cause I am sure nobody will get that, unless you could stim a reaper LOL Interesting random anecdote: Blizzard originally came up with the idea of Medivacs because Medics were too slow to keep up with Reapers.
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Is the renaissance of the old WoL 5-rax reaper? (WoL beta at least. Not sure how much longer it lasted, because memory goes when you're old.)
As I recall, though, that was pretty fun. Reaper anti-building grenades made Marauder's look like slow pokes in tearing down a hatch or nexus.
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That is awesome Iaguz. You are 100% right to try to break things (though, it's SC2 Q&A job to check that)
I think that the 10 sec CD is the worst offender. It should be a 30~40 second CD. It shouldn't be unlocked by high tech stuff like a factory, just a much longer CD.
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As usually blizzard prefers to over buff, we will just have to see how it goes.
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is the splash ability built-in or is it an upgrade? if it's an upgrade (say factory or armory), then it can't be abused like this early game but still can be useful later on (as blizzard originally intended)
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On April 30 2015 14:16 ETisME wrote: As usually blizzard prefers to over buff, we will just have to see how it goes.
overbuff? I'm still waiting for them to even start doing that with the infestor...
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On April 30 2015 09:47 eviltomahawk wrote: Somewhere, Idra wakes up in a cold sweat, sensing a familiar disturbance in the meta that he had not felt since.
He then goes "fuck that" and goes right back to sleep.
I hope they at least move up the ability into an upgrade at a higher tech level.
Hahaha! So good...
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