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Didn't see one of these already so I figured we could have one. Just use this to post strategy questions about LotV and have other members answer them.
Not a place for balance whine at all, so please try to keep that out of here. The game is in beta and is subject to change so until then nothing is going to be perfect. Please ask questions like "What is the best response to a Ravager rush as Protoss?" etc. and not "OMG Ravagers are so imba how do I win???"
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Also, to make it easier for people to find and answer your questions, please BOLD your questions. This way they will stick out in the thread.
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I'll start. With the Colossus nerf, what's the best way to play against 4M as Protoss?
He stims and runs away from my Disruptors, and as soon as they lose invulnerability they just melt to widow mines before I can even pick them up. They also do friendly fire so I can't send them with the rest of my army.... Colossus seems really really bad right now so I'm trying to avoid building it..
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What's the best way to deal with lurker/hydra play as terran? Would it be to get a healthy tank count or switch to sky terran? I feel lurkers are very strong right now.
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On May 03 2015 01:11 modestXAF wrote: What's the best way to deal with lurker/hydra play as terran? Would it be to get a healthy tank count or switch to sky terran? I feel lurkers are very strong right now.
Bio tank with good tank positioning and some drops to spread me thin is how I have been losing against Terran when I play Lurker comps, anytime they try to muscle through the Lurker position it ends up being pretty one sided, but the Lurkers are a bit squishy vs the tanks. They are definitely awesome vs bio.
I'm just a garbage diamond player though and I'm only like 30 games in so not sure how much salt you should take this with.
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That seems reasonable. I just played vs a Hydra/ Lurker player as Protoss and any time I tried to attack directly into it I got wrecked but if you attack from angles so only some of the Lurkers can attack you do much better. Also the Lurkers themselves are squishy, you just don't know it because they kill bio so fast.
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In ZvZ what is the best method of breaking a passive lurker player?
I'm thinking it's got to be Ultra ling corrupter/muta viper. I've really struggled breaking a defensive Lurker player who sits back behind spores/spines with Roach Hydra Lurker Corrupter. Is there anyway to force the matter or do I just have to harass and sit back until I can take loads of inefficient trades?
What are the optimal openers for Zerg?
I've been going 13 Overlord 18 Hatch 17 Gas 16 Pool is there a more efficient opener for fast speed/lair?
I've been trying a +1 armor Mutalisk style against Protoss and it's been giving me very high winrates, does any other zerg have a good build for any of the matchups?
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On May 03 2015 01:03 DinoMight wrote: I'll start. With the Colossus nerf, what's the best way to play against 4M as Protoss?
He stims and runs away from my Disruptors, and as soon as they lose invulnerability they just melt to widow mines before I can even pick them up. They also do friendly fire so I can't send them with the rest of my army.... Colossus seems really really bad right now so I'm trying to avoid building it..
I think the best way is to play parting's Big boy style. (Although all of the timings from hots to legacy of the void, the general order of the timings shouldn't have changed, IE, you can still reliably get blink faster than terran can get stim+medivacs). Thus, although it will be smaller, there should still be a window for you to pressure the terran with blink stalker + zealots in a warp prism. With this you can take a third base, (Which you kinda need to in legacy because your main would have like ~200 minerals in the smaller patches at this point). After this, I think that collosus is still needed to hold your third/ natural, (You just need decent force fields to prevent stim move command into collosus snipe).
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On May 03 2015 03:56 AkashSky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2015 01:03 DinoMight wrote: I'll start. With the Colossus nerf, what's the best way to play against 4M as Protoss?
He stims and runs away from my Disruptors, and as soon as they lose invulnerability they just melt to widow mines before I can even pick them up. They also do friendly fire so I can't send them with the rest of my army.... Colossus seems really really bad right now so I'm trying to avoid building it.. I think the best way is to play parting's Big boy style. (Although all of the timings from hots to legacy of the void, the general order of the timings shouldn't have changed, IE, you can still reliably get blink faster than terran can get stim+medivacs). Thus, although it will be smaller, there should still be a window for you to pressure the terran with blink stalker + zealots in a warp prism. With this you can take a third base, (Which you kinda need to in legacy because your main would have like ~200 minerals in the smaller patches at this point). After this, I think that collosus is still needed to hold your third/ natural, (You just need decent force fields to prevent stim move command into collosus snipe).
So you're not playing Disruptor in this matchup? From the bit of experience i had with Colos in LotV they are utter garbage :/
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Has anyone found a way dealing with roach-lurker zerg in TvZ without going mech? Is bio-tank viable? I feel like mech is not only the new TvZ but the only really viable TvZ right now. Maybe i'm just really bad with bio-tank though. Banshees? Anyone has experience REKING zerg with bio compositions? Please share them.
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I don't know if this is the right thread, but does anyone else feel like the game's trying to keep you restless?
I only played 10-15 games, but so far it feels like I'm constantly struggling to keep up with the mining speed of my own workers. Ingame it feels like there is no point in time in which you can sit back and tech up or focus some harassment/posturing on the map because bases mine out so incredibly quickly...
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On May 04 2015 06:12 _indigo_ wrote: Has anyone found a way dealing with roach-lurker zerg in TvZ without going mech? Is bio-tank viable? I feel like mech is not only the new TvZ but the only really viable TvZ right now. Maybe i'm just really bad with bio-tank though. Banshees? Anyone has experience REKING zerg with bio compositions? Please share them.
Lurkers are like tanks, immobile as fuck and useless with unburrowed. Do drops and flank them.
I don't think there's any way to straight up engage on lurkers right now except to dance around them. Their shots are directional and delayed, so you can dodge them... but it IS hard when there's 10 lurkers and a bunch of roach hydra sitting on top of them.
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On May 04 2015 08:29 Quakecomm wrote: Basic Zerg build?
I go 12 OL 17H 17G 17P in all matchups.
In ZvZ I take a third around 36 supply, get some lings to pressure, then go roaches and get +1/+1 + lurkers and hydras ASAP.
In ZvT I go 7:30 mass roach into lurkers.
In ZvP I have no idea really, I haven't played a lot, but I've had some success with a roach/ravager push to deny their 3rd, similar to the old stephano style. Most toss players don't have disruptors out at that point, colossi suck now, and ravagers make it easy to engage on sentry/immortal, especially if you get like 8-10 ravagers and focus down the immortals with corrosive bile.
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I'll ask here because I think this is the closest to an appropriate place, and I can't imagine there are enough questions for a dedicated "new interactions" question thread: Does the Oracle Stasis ability affect units in Bunkers?
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On May 04 2015 11:21 Circumstance wrote: I'll ask here because I think this is the closest to an appropriate place, and I can't imagine there are enough questions for a dedicated "new interactions" question thread: Does the Oracle Stasis ability affect units in Bunkers?
That will literally never be relevant :p
Seriously though, I can't beat bio. Does anyone have a decent build order or "strategy" vs Terran bio?
I've been doing 1 gate expand with 2 gases and going for fast disruptor drops to chip away at them while I try to amass some Chargelot Archon Disruptor army but mostly they take some econ damage and still make a massive army anyway. Without perfect disruptor hits I just lose outright. Also, Colossus seem pretty worthless at the moment, few games I built them when I was ahead and came back to lose anyway....
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On May 04 2015 13:02 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2015 11:21 Circumstance wrote: I'll ask here because I think this is the closest to an appropriate place, and I can't imagine there are enough questions for a dedicated "new interactions" question thread: Does the Oracle Stasis ability affect units in Bunkers? That will literally never be relevant :p Seriously though, I can't beat bio. Does anyone have a decent build order or "strategy" vs Terran bio?I've been doing 1 gate expand with 2 gases and going for fast disruptor drops to chip away at them while I try to amass some Chargelot Archon Disruptor army but mostly they take some econ damage and still make a massive army anyway. Without perfect disruptor hits I just lose outright. Also, Colossus seem pretty worthless at the moment, few games I built them when I was ahead and came back to lose anyway....
Carriers has more dps and is about same speed now. I have been trying to play like SC2Cress and it has been evenly matched.
So I open oracle into carriers (2-4) then fast storm and charge. The game will be even once you have 3rd base and 4 templars. For drop defense you just use the oracle if it hasnt died. Or a pheonix just for scouting.
I ll post a replay later.
http://lotv.spawningtool.com/271/
This build order is weak agaisnt 3 rax openings (though if you scouted it just build more cannons and possibly stasis part of his force). Very few Terran open 3 rax in LotV so far. They all trying to use the fancy new toys. I guess that is part of the meta game.
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What mid-game composition are people going for in PvP now? Collossi seem like they might still be good in high numbers, but it's hard to get that critical mass with how fast paced LotV is. I've had some luck with disruptors but they screw over your own zealots and blink stalkers have a pretty easy time avoiding them. Are HTs actually worth getting now, particularly since they're good against air based armies?
PS thanks for this thread, I was actually just thinking this morning about how great it would be to have a dedicated LotV strategy thread.
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On May 04 2015 16:43 StalkerFang wrote: What mid-game composition are people going for in PvP now? Collossi seem like they might still be good in high numbers, but it's hard to get that critical mass with how fast paced LotV is. I've had some luck with disruptors but they screw over your own zealots and blink stalkers have a pretty easy time avoiding them. Are HTs actually worth getting now, particularly since they're good against air based armies?
PS thanks for this thread, I was actually just thinking this morning about how great it would be to have a dedicated LotV strategy thread.
I only know the end game composition is carriers. There is almost no way to deal with them when the count goes above 8. Sure mass archons can deal with the interceptors but the carriers just go back and make more. And the archon player lost a few archon from the first volley.
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On May 04 2015 08:33 iKill wrote:I go 12 OL 17H 17G 17P in all matchups. In ZvZ I take a third around 36 supply, get some lings to pressure, then go roaches and get +1/+1 + lurkers and hydras ASAP. In ZvT I go 7:30 mass roach into lurkers. In ZvP I have no idea really, I haven't played a lot, but I've had some success with a roach/ravager push to deny their 3rd, similar to the old stephano style. Most toss players don't have disruptors out at that point, colossi suck now, and ravagers make it easy to engage on sentry/immortal, especially if you get like 8-10 ravagers and focus down the immortals with corrosive bile.
12 OL is not efficient, that's not a good start. After no one responded to my post in this thread I tested out the majority of the openers and it turns out that for hatch first builds 13 overlord 18 hatch is the best start.
The next bit is the hardest to work out because it depends on your goal, if you're looking for pure macro/whilst maintaining safety (IE not 3 hatch) then after 18 Hatch you want to go 19 Gas 19 Pool 21 Overlord Double Queen Speed and one set of lings. This is the most economic build and perfectly lines up the spawning pool timing to the hatch timing and gains you a whopping 95 minerals and 2 fast drones built over your initial build (adjusted to 13 overlord rather than 12) the only difference is your first queen is 9 seconds earlier and speed is 13 seconds earlier. So the next question is what if you want to put on some speedling aggression from an economic opener hatch first(ish). Then the best build is where you take the extractor 3 seconds or so before you place down the hatchery then 16 pool (since it would be 17 hatch) then it's drones and overlord at 19 then one more drone then queen speed 1 set of lings and the next queen. You get speed at 2:41 compared to the most economic builds 3:02 at the sacrifice of one later queen and hatch (2 seconds) 1 less drone and a loss of around 110 minerals.
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I wonder how much mining is lost when reaper drops the grenade in the mineral line and workers bounce out for a couple of seconds. If anyone has done some testing, I would appreciate it if they can share the results, because i'm not very patient with those kind of tests (as well as amount of time on my hand).
Seems to me if this isn't efficient mining disruption, than i'd rather just spend the gas on tech than on reapers since rax is delayed comparing to HotS (15 supply rax).
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