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On May 26 2015 20:39 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +Something you may notice is that, while the Liberator's AG weapon has 15 range, the Siege ability's range (to place the targeting circle) is much, much lower (around 7, I'd guess). It does appear that Liberators can fire shots into another Liberator's Siege circle, though, as long the other circle is within the AG weapon's 15 range. Interesting tidbit from the Reddit thread. I don't know if the spotter ability is a bug though, would be cool if it were intentional though.
Ooh, that's a really cool mechanic. Do I dare hope that it's not a bug? Lol.
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On May 27 2015 03:02 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2015 02:47 summerloud wrote: apart from balance, just concentrating on the visual design:
i think the liberator looks really silly and un-terrany
since when do terrans shoot blue lasers? also, the general unit design is weak. and the AA attack looks really tiny, i was hoping for a valkyrie-style volley of missiles I agree. It should shoot missiles to the ground or at least have a cannon fire at ground targets, and the AA missiles are underwhelming. Right now ground attack really looks like a projectile from Photon Overcharge, I would say that it is just a placeholder. AA missiles are underwhelming but they shouldn't really look a lot better than that because they do 2x7 damage which isn't exactly high. Maybe make an explosion a bit more flashy but that's all.
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I rly would just love to have the old halo-missles back. They were soooo cool. The new AA just looks so bad... no power behind that. Terran could need some more attacks that look like real pew pew!
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Are the liberator anti-air missiles the same as the ones for Starbow's viking? I thought they looked similar.
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I like how most of the changes the majority of the people say "approve", with one "disapprove" and one "neutral", but the general changes have most people voting "disapprove".
"That sounds like a good change, that sounds like a good change, that's an ok change. Horrible balance patch though."
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On May 27 2015 08:48 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I like how most of the changes the majority of the people say "approve", with one "disapprove" and one "neutral", but the general changes have most people voting "disapprove".
"That sounds like a good change, that sounds like a good change, that's an ok change. Horrible balance patch though."
God, at least skim a few posts and try to find the reason why that might be the case.
The individual changes are okay but the general direction of the patch is indeed horrible. As stated by countless of people, they were expecting major changes to economy and design of certain elements of the game (warp gates etc).
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On May 27 2015 09:46 B-royal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2015 08:48 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I like how most of the changes the majority of the people say "approve", with one "disapprove" and one "neutral", but the general changes have most people voting "disapprove".
"That sounds like a good change, that sounds like a good change, that's an ok change. Horrible balance patch though." God, at least skim a few posts and try to find the reason why that might be the case. The individual changes are okay but the general direction of the patch is indeed horrible. As stated by countless of people, they were expecting major changes to economy and design of certain elements of the game (warp gates etc). I see people complaining about individual changes. Even then, if the changes are okay, you wouldn't see overwhelming approval numbers like with the restoration of gas. This would be reflected in the votecount.
The Liberator is a big change. The beta is long specifically so they can change one thing at a time, because even with the promised super changes, you can't get anything but novelty if you implement it all at once. People get used to the Liberator (which was promised, it's not like they're putting it all off for no good reason), and then once they see how the Liberator works they can tweak it with the rest of the new units and bring something else in (like changing warp gate mechanic).
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dunno if this is offtopic but i kind of wish they hadn't removed frenzy from broodlords. i think in zvz if you get to broods against lurkers your opponent should need more of a counter than to make vipers and snipe them one by one with a big ball of lurker/hydra. lurkers dominating the ground is annoying, but i could live with it if defensive hive tech actually countered it in a meaningful way...
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I wish Disruptors damaged each other, even in nova form. That way you'd never have some jackass activate all four of them at once and just click them all in the center of a big ball of Roaches and kill like 2 of them after the split. I'd like to see the purification novae forced to be more of a touch-and-go technique. Maybe you could lower the cooldown, in exchange for dropping the damage down to 120.
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On May 27 2015 10:19 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2015 09:46 B-royal wrote:On May 27 2015 08:48 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I like how most of the changes the majority of the people say "approve", with one "disapprove" and one "neutral", but the general changes have most people voting "disapprove".
"That sounds like a good change, that sounds like a good change, that's an ok change. Horrible balance patch though." God, at least skim a few posts and try to find the reason why that might be the case. The individual changes are okay but the general direction of the patch is indeed horrible. As stated by countless of people, they were expecting major changes to economy and design of certain elements of the game (warp gates etc). I see people complaining about individual changes. Even then, if the changes are okay, you wouldn't see overwhelming approval numbers like with the restoration of gas. This would be reflected in the votecount. The Liberator is a big change. The beta is long specifically so they can change one thing at a time, because even with the promised super changes, you can't get anything but novelty if you implement it all at once. People get used to the Liberator (which was promised, it's not like they're putting it all off for no good reason), and then once they see how the Liberator works they can tweak it with the rest of the new units and bring something else in (like changing warp gate mechanic).
The Liberator, being a Starport Tech Lab unit that requires an upgrade for its ground mode and is unlikely to be used with Bio compositions in general, can never ever hope to change the game as much as an adjusted Warp Gate mechanic would, or an adjustment to Protoss tier 1 that doesn't even touch Warp Gate. This just doesn't make sense.
Protoss needs changes to be able to play a sprawled out macro game. The longer Blizzard holds off on introducing them, the higher the chance that they're going to come in the form of new MSC spells like "press F+U to teleport all your opponent's combat units to the farthest possible point on the map from here, and if that point is over impassable terrain then blow them the fuck up."
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After playing a quite a few games to get a feel for the pace of the current LotV meta, the first thing I've noticed is that some of the new changes definitely feel like they still need fine tuning. However, if the developers and community keep in mind this is the definitive RTS (and doesn't need skillshots or abilities that belong more in Heroes of the Storm) for the rest of the beta, then we should end up in the right direction.
Many of the new units/abilities (and the less interesting economy) have potential, which is a good thing for still being early into the beta. We just have to hope for trying a lot more iterations of some things if the majority feels as though something isn't working after it's been given time to mess around with.
A few things that come to mind from what I've messed around with in beta so far:
12 worker start is a little too much. 9 workers (and 200 minerals) would be just right. Battles aren't as spread out as 100/60 intended, as you move onto the next base quicker. 3 bases still gets similar income as HotS. Maybe consider trying 6 patches per base.
Siege Tanks shouldn't be able to be dropped for a few seconds after being picked up. Cyclone could use +1 Lock On range, in exchange for slowly ramping up it's damage. Consider requiring either an Engineering Bay or an Armory to build Missile Turrets. Liberator AG mode would be much cooler if it were an upgrade on the Fusion Core.
I'd like if Ravagers had +1 Attack Range but required an Evolution Chamber to make. Parasitic Bomb is deadly, giving Zerg late game Air superiority. Dial back it's damage. Lurkers might need 15 dmg (+5 Armored), then upgrade to 20 dmg (+10 Armored). Ventral Sacs could be 100/100, then Overlords can morph separately into Overtakers.
Adept could use Bounce upgrade again instead of Shield, but on Cyber Core instead. Observer Speed upgrade might work better with various builds on Twilight Council. Disruptor needs a Robo Bay upgrade. Maybe make it cloaked while it's invulnerable? Tempest needs a Fleet Beacon upgrade. Maybe small amount of Air Splash damage?
I'm interested in seeing how the Liberator will be used in both Bio and Mech builds. Keep up the testing, looking forward to more changes!
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On May 27 2015 15:48 frostalgia wrote: Disruptor needs a Robo Bay upgrade. Maybe make it cloaked while it's invulnerable?
Dude.
Guy.
You want to turn Disruptors into AOE Dark Templar? Because regular old Dark Templar aren't evil enough?
If that's not offensive on principle alone, consider simply that it removes all micro counterplay, and micro counterplay is (part of) the reason the Disruptor was created to replace the Colossus. The invincibility is pretty terrible already, a flat shield buff would be much more preferable.
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Russian Federation421 Posts
On May 27 2015 02:47 summerloud wrote: apart from balance, just concentrating on the visual design:
i think the liberator looks really silly and un-terrany
since when do terrans shoot blue lasers? also, the general unit design is weak. and the AA attack looks really tiny, i was hoping for a valkyrie-style volley of missiles
Since wraith? Or you would be happier if it was red? (that probably has some deep Star Wars implications)
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On May 22 2015 03:04 Matt` wrote: why does terran needs more AA honestly, they should remove the thor if they want to bring another AA unit in.
Terran has the worst air units in the game if not just flat out for its lack of mobility compared to the other races but also the cost, and you need such a specific mix of units. It's not like you can spam vikings and they are gonna be as effective as phoenix or mutas. Thors are bad, i mean seriously complaining about thors is the funniest thing in the entire game because they only used to counter 1 unit in the whole game and they are completely shut down by a simple micro trick.
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On May 27 2015 15:53 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2015 15:48 frostalgia wrote: Disruptor needs a Robo Bay upgrade. Maybe make it cloaked while it's invulnerable? Dude. Guy. You want to turn Disruptors into AOE Dark Templar? Because regular old Dark Templar aren't evil enough? If that's not offensive on principle alone, consider simply that it removes all micro counterplay, and micro counterplay is (part of) the reason the Disruptor was created to replace the Colossus. The invincibility is pretty terrible already, a flat shield buff would be much more preferable.
I think it would be pretty fun if it cloaked while not moving.
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Things that need to be adjusted
1. Parasitic bomb - Basically a storm that you can't dodge and stacks. There's nothing more OP right now, nothing even comes anywhere close imo. Nerfing the damage won't do too much cuz it stucks. When my Viking ball got hit by like maybe 2-3 PBombs they literally evaporate in like a second I can't even react fast enough to split, not that it would matter cuz I think even pro players, and even bots won't be able to do anything. There's no way to even nerf it, this thing just need to go, it makes all sorts of air compositions completely useless.
2. Cyclone - This unit is actually a must have given the other changes like Marauder nerf, Ultralisk buff, Adept buff and so on. Without this unit Terran would be the worst race by like a light year. Maybe the stats, size, food of this unit need some tweaking but it's definitely what keeps T alive against shenanigans. This is the new backbone of T army(the old one being MMM), nerfing this unit should be done carefully.
3. Adept - This unit is WAY too powerful in the stage when it's available. It seems to me I have to blindly go for the fastest possible Cyclone to be able to deal with this opener.(I'm pretty low level so don't take this too seriously, but most casual players probably feel the same way as me) Well with the Cyclone AA removed I just die straight up against other shenanegans like proxy oracle. So what I do is open with fastest possible Cyclone and put 1 turret each per mineral line.(thx for the turret nerf DK!) I'm not even gonna bother scouting cuz it's too APM demanding for my level. I guess us casual players just have to play rock-paper-scissors huh.
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I think the problem with disruptors is that they're unreliable.
Another way to see it is this: it "feels" OP when you get to kill 10-15 units, and I think that's why a lot of people consider the unit imba. But that happens only once in a while, especially if your opponent knows how to split.
Most likely, you're going to trade a single disruptor for 5-6 enemy units, on a regular basis. But you're also going to lose a disruptor for nothing once in a while, cause you'll get caught off-pos, or because he'll split in a different direction at the last second and your disruptor will explode doing nothing and get insta killed.
My point being that even though there's potential for killing 10-15 units, you need to consider the average; how many units got killed by disruptors in the game, divided by the amount of disruptors, and that'll give you the average number of kills per disruptor in a game. If you do this calc, you'll find that disruptors is just a "meh" unit. The few times you'll make your opponent rage because you killed half his army with a single disruptor are getting cancelled out by the few times you'll rage because your 300-gas unit didn't do a single kill.
Personally I'd much prefer if the disruptor didn't act as a banneling, but dealt damage over time around its radius. The mechanics would be the same: activate the spell, unit gets unkillable and moves fast but "radiates" a field around it ( that doesn't stack ) that deals X dps, like storm, and once its done the unit is slow and killable again.
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On May 28 2015 01:25 HallofPain4444 wrote: Things that need to be adjusted
1. Parasitic bomb - Basically a storm that you can't dodge and stacks. There's nothing more OP right now, nothing even comes anywhere close imo. Nerfing the damage won't do too much cuz it stucks. When my Viking ball got hit by like maybe 2-3 PBombs they literally evaporate in like a second I can't even react fast enough to split, not that it would matter cuz I think even pro players, and even bots won't be able to do anything. There's no way to even nerf it, this thing just need to go, it makes all sorts of air compositions completely useless. On that note, can you counter parasitic bomb by landing the affected viking?
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^ Jakatack tested this when the Beta came out afaik and there it worked.
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The patch is live, and it is quite sad...
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