|
First of all we alredy know that Blizzard said they where looking for a cool ability to be implemenedt on the Infestor also David Kim himself said in a community feedback post that we must used specific things of why a certain ability should be changed/redesigned etc. If we want something to be change in a way.
My suggestion and why i belive it should happen.
Neural Silence
- Stops all enemies in a target area from casting spells/abilities for 20-30 sec, debuff stays with the unit. - 75 or 100 energy - range 9 or 10 - AoE could be a bit bigger then Blinding Cloud - no research required - cant stack to prolong the Neural Silence time
Why this ability ?
Every other race has a way to deal with casters, Feedback for Protoss and EMP for Terran. The change to SH that made this unit a harass type, killed any way to zone out casters like HT for Zerg, this was even said by David Kim Allows for good intereactions between armies and makes the Infestor a more support unit.
What ability should be remplaced to make space or this one ?
Neural Parasite, the same that blizz wants to remplace, this ability has no role, its very hard to get and doesnt reward you for the cost and time you put in it. The fast paced of LotV also doesnt help since Infestors cant Consume like a Viper.
Why the Infestor ?
Its well know that this unit has been overnerfed and its usage is as rare as Ghosts or even more rare. This could give the Infetor redemption and usage.
In what ways could this ability be used ?
- Zoning out HT without doing a deathblow to their energy pool or killing them - This ability could be used against Ravens who are well know to restrict Zerg to much but its needed vs Protoss - Against Cyclone, units that spam their ability and just dodge everything, it would force them to back off without taking huge ammounts of damage or force a battle with them if they dont micro them. - Ravagers, a unit that was nerfed mostly because it would shut down Lurkers usage and it woud be back to roach/ravager , well now Ravagers could be buffed a bit more and shut down by Infestors - Vipers who kind of happen to be countered again by Vipers in ZvZ could be changed with some Infestor help.
Where did you get this idea ?
This ability was used in Warcraft 3, the dark ranger sylvanas used it.
|
Interesting idea, would have to see how it plays out but looks pretty strong in it's current form.
By spells do you mean activated abilities ? Is graviton beam a spell for instance ? Is sieging/unsieging an ability this would block ? Or passive things like charge and build interceptors ?
|
Good idea, I am just not sure if Blizzard wants to give infestors another aoe spell. Their argument on giving Viper the Parasitic Bomb was the synergy with fungal was too high to give it to one single unit. Might be the same in this case.
Oh and do you want the debuff to stick with the unit like wc3 silence or stick to the area like blinding cloud?
|
On July 01 2015 17:57 Geiko wrote: Interesting idea, would have to see how it plays out but looks pretty strong in it's current form.
By spells do you mean activated abilities ? Is graviton beam a spell for instance ? Is sieging/unsieging an ability this would block ? Or passive things like charge and build interceptors ?
Thank you, It can be balanced tho with the time in silence.
Siege mode and build interceptors is not a spell/abiity But graviton beam is an ofensive spell, it costs energy.
On July 01 2015 18:05 Insidioussc2 wrote: Good idea, I am just not sure if Blizzard wants to give infestors another aoe spell. Their argument on giving Viper the Parasitic Bomb was the synergy with fungal was too high to give it to one single unit. Might be the same in this case.
Oh and do you want the debuff to stick with the unit like wc3 silence or stick to the area like blinding cloud?
In the PB and FG problem was that casting FG stops micro and then PB would just destory the enemy air without no counter unless they dodged FG first, so they had to split it on 2 casters, if you want to do this against mass air, it would be a huge investment.
I would like the debuff to stick with the unit, but if it has a good AoE it could be just like Blinding Cloud. Tho Blinding Cloud was giiven that debuff just on the area because Vipers has consume so you can use the ability more and the spell would be to strong in certain compostions, like stalkers or marines cuz its still an instant ability.
|
Hm... I must say I don't like how this looks on paper. Three reasons, mostly: 1) Infestor already has an AOE spell (fungal) so it looks weird to me having two of these - albeit not the same but kind of similar (rooting enemies keeps them out of range of their abilities - I know it's totally not the same though). 2) It sounds very very MOBA I realize this has become a dull argument but really, Silence is a major mechanic in Mobas and I've never seen it in an RTS. 3) The effect is also new to StarCraft, similar to that armor negating Drone - feels inelegant in that way.
What I would do is keep the Neural parasite on Infestor and make it castable while burrowed (without unburrowing or becoming targetable with no detection). This, or put the Neural parasite on Viper for better positioning options.
|
What about Spawn Broodling for their "ultimate" spell? (with a research in the building)
I loved watching (Zero?) use it to snipe units with his BW queens
|
You could also just make fungaled units unable to cast spells + Show Spoiler +and remove parasitic bomb
|
Czech Republic12115 Posts
So basically 1 unit would deny MSC, sentry and templar. With 1 spell. Without any research.
Am I the only one who thinks this cannot go well?
(also no healing for Terran for as long as the infestor is there, yeah... sure )
|
On July 01 2015 18:29 _indigo_ wrote:Hm... I must say I don't like how this looks on paper. Three reasons, mostly: 1) Infestor already has an AOE spell (fungal) so it looks weird to me having two of these - albeit not the same but kind of similar (rooting enemies keeps them out of range of their abilities - I know it's totally not the same though). 2) It sounds very very MOBA I realize this has become a dull argument but really, Silence is a major mechanic in Mobas and I've never seen it in an RTS. 3) The effect is also new to StarCraft, similar to that armor negating Drone - feels inelegant in that way. What I would do is keep the Neural parasite on Infestor and make it castable while burrowed (without unburrowing or becoming targetable with no detection). This, or put the Neural parasite on Viper for better positioning options.
1) FG is not really used and its so easy to dodge unlike EMP or Feedback who are very good vs casters 2) So many other spells are MOBA like in Sc2 3) Not really its not a band aid.
On July 01 2015 19:07 deacon.frost wrote:So basically 1 unit would deny MSC, sentry and templar. With 1 spell. Without any research. Am I the only one who thinks this cannot go well? (also no healing for Terran for as long as the infestor is there, yeah... sure )
We are talking about LotV, by the time Zerg gets Infestors you have counters.
|
@ 1) FG actually is used, and infestor is made quite more than Ghost in my experience. With it's AOE I never felt it's hard to hit anything, as long as you are in range (I play random so I'm not even an expert on zerg but I can't remember when I actually missed FG at all)
@ 2) Most of the spells were a part of RTS games even before (and even in other games, not SC-related), but Silence is the one i've only seen in MOBAs. It's not just "moba spell", it's more of a "moba trademark".
@ 3) Never said it's a bandair - I said it's similar to Ghost Drone because it introduces a mechanic that wasn't ever coded in SC or SC2 (or any other RTS that I know of). Similar to armor reduction which is totally new to SC franchise - but Silence is even new to RTS in general. That's why it's inelegant to me. Elegant would be to use existing mechanics to achieve the same goal, not make up new ones.
I'm fairly certain this idea won't be generally accepted because it overlaps with FG (in AOE) and at the same time stands out as one of the only spells of this kind in the history of RTS :D
|
On July 01 2015 20:38 _indigo_ wrote: @ 2) Most of the spells were a part of RTS games even before (and even in other games, not SC-related), but Silence is the one i've only seen in MOBAs. It's not just "moba spell", it's more of a "moba trademark". I remember Sylvanas having a silence ability in WC3 TFT. That was 2003.
I have not been liking the fact that Zerg is the only race that has no way to counter any spellcaster like Ghosts or HTs do. This idea is really nice, tho it could need some changes so it does not completely negate other game elements.
|
Bisutopia18980 Posts
I feel like this would wreck protoss who go storm. If this locked down all the templar it'd be an insta win. I think new abilities need to be further away from that type of situation.
|
On July 01 2015 21:15 BisuDagger wrote: I feel like this would wreck protoss who go storm. If this locked down all the templar it'd be an insta win. I think new abilities need to be further away from that type of situation. What is different in TvP, when u have a Ghost vs HT scenario? If the Terran hits the EMPs it's over as well.
|
Your ability "targets an area for 20-30 seconds", EMP is instant.
You could precast this thing all over the place before the battle even begins... Even if it lasted 10 seconds it would be really good against high templars.
|
On July 01 2015 21:20 Phaenoman wrote: What is different in TvP, when u have a Ghost vs HT scenario? If the Terran hits the EMPs it's over as well. Yes, if the Terran hits all your templar twice with EMP it is pretty much over. But this is kind of like saying if you can catch all the Terran's Medivacs with a blink it is all over.
|
On July 01 2015 21:25 Salteador Neo wrote: Your ability "targets an area for 20-30 seconds", EMP is instant.
You could precast this thing all over the place before the battle even begins... Even if it lasted 10 seconds it would be really good against high templars.
Its a debuff on the unit not on the area like Blinding Cloud but it could work like that to if the AoE is decent.
|
On July 01 2015 21:29 dust7 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 21:20 Phaenoman wrote: What is different in TvP, when u have a Ghost vs HT scenario? If the Terran hits the EMPs it's over as well. Yes, if the Terran hits all your templar twice with EMP it is pretty much over. But this is kind of like saying if you can catch all the Terran's Medivacs with a blink it is all over. So what exactly are u trying to state? If it's the same then why is it unthinkable for zerg to have a counter, but the TvP example is ok?
|
On July 01 2015 20:38 _indigo_ wrote: @ 1) FG actually is used, and infestor is made quite more than Ghost in my experience. With it's AOE I never felt it's hard to hit anything, as long as you are in range (I play random so I'm not even an expert on zerg but I can't remember when I actually missed FG at all)
@ 2) Most of the spells were a part of RTS games even before (and even in other games, not SC-related), but Silence is the one i've only seen in MOBAs. It's not just "moba spell", it's more of a "moba trademark".
@ 3) Never said it's a bandair - I said it's similar to Ghost Drone because it introduces a mechanic that wasn't ever coded in SC or SC2 (or any other RTS that I know of). Similar to armor reduction which is totally new to SC franchise - but Silence is even new to RTS in general. That's why it's inelegant to me. Elegant would be to use existing mechanics to achieve the same goal, not make up new ones.
I'm fairly certain this idea won't be generally accepted because it overlaps with FG (in AOE) and at the same time stands out as one of the only spells of this kind in the history of RTS :D
1) Im sorry to say but above Master and pro play you never really see them, there where used against mech but now eveyone goes a more utralisk focus with queens. Its also very easy to dodge.
2) That might be true but i dont see why this would prevent it from being at least in the beta. You know to ty it ou.
3) Many things are not elegant in Sc2 lets be real
I dont see any overlap with FG, they are very different except the fact they have AoE. There are other things who overlap in Sc2 much worse then this.
On July 01 2015 21:15 BisuDagger wrote: I feel like this would wreck protoss who go storm. If this locked down all the templar it'd be an insta win. I think new abilities need to be further away from that type of situation.
Except if you hold back the MSC and avoid the Neural Silence you get to Recall and fight againt, you know unlike getting EMP and then killed.
Its not that unforgiving.
|
On July 01 2015 21:38 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 21:29 dust7 wrote:On July 01 2015 21:20 Phaenoman wrote: What is different in TvP, when u have a Ghost vs HT scenario? If the Terran hits the EMPs it's over as well. Yes, if the Terran hits all your templar twice with EMP it is pretty much over. But this is kind of like saying if you can catch all the Terran's Medivacs with a blink it is all over. So what exactly are u trying to state? If it's the same then why is it unthinkable for zerg to have a counter, but the TvP example is ok? I just wanted to point out that your statement was basically: "If you manage to pull off a very unrealistic move because your opponent screwed up big time, you win!". We are not talking minor blunders here, but mistakes comparable to walking your army into a nuke.
|
I would prefer something along the lines of an AOE spell that debuffs all targets it hits, reducing their vision and sight radius to 2 or 3 for a while. Alternatively a large cloud that just completely eliminates vision in that area for that enemy and reduces vision to 2 or 3 for units within the cloud area. This would fit in with Zerg since a few well placed hits make it harder to spot Zerg movement and flanks. It would force more scans etc. Just a lot scarier overall to just engage Zerg and there is a lot you can do from both sides to maximize or minimize the effects, or apply the relationship strategically.
|
|
|
|