|
Im posting this because reddit exploded when the WCS EU had a plain hacker in it.
I think this is the most important thing we must push foward. For once LotV is a stand alone not an expansion, they should find a way to prevent any hacks. LoL and Dota has some systems to prevent hacks, so they have less hackers.
I know SC2 has a different system then those 2 games but it must be a way out there.
If you have a way to stop this, please give ideas to Sc2 to stop this.
|
Hacks on WCS EU? Could you link me a VOD?
|
|
Shocking allegations. Maybe what Avilo was always saying have some truth in it.
|
Against certain hacks there is not much you can do. Things like seeing the enemies production, resources, etc can not be counter acted. The problem is that these information are on the PC of every player playing the game. It is in the users RAM, nothing is preventing him from reading the values.
|
On July 09 2015 07:44 RoomOfMush wrote: Against certain hacks there is not much you can do. Things like seeing the enemies production, resources, etc can not be counter acted. The problem is that these information are on the PC of every player playing the game. It is in the users RAM, nothing is preventing him from reading the values.
Then maybe there should be a new system in place. It would kill offline but making some things just on serves could maybe prevent this.
Something like Diablo or other games where most things are on servers instead of PC
|
On July 09 2015 08:04 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 07:44 RoomOfMush wrote: Against certain hacks there is not much you can do. Things like seeing the enemies production, resources, etc can not be counter acted. The problem is that these information are on the PC of every player playing the game. It is in the users RAM, nothing is preventing him from reading the values. Then maybe there should be a new system in place. It would kill offline but making some things just on serves could maybe prevent this. Something like Diablo or other games where most things are on servers instead of PC
Yeah, but having the server lag in a non-competitive game like Diablo doesn't effectively kill the experience; whereas having that in a game where every piece of player input flourishes out into a host of algorithims affecting every piece of the outcome can be damning. I just don't know if that's feasible, which is why it's all P2P
|
On July 09 2015 08:04 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 07:44 RoomOfMush wrote: Against certain hacks there is not much you can do. Things like seeing the enemies production, resources, etc can not be counter acted. The problem is that these information are on the PC of every player playing the game. It is in the users RAM, nothing is preventing him from reading the values. Then maybe there should be a new system in place. It would kill offline but making some things just on serves could maybe prevent this. Something like Diablo or other games where most things are on servers instead of PC So all players without super high speed internet connections can no longer play the game and at the same time blizzard has to quadruple their server costs. A genius idea.
|
United Kingdom20157 Posts
Then maybe there should be a new system in place. It would kill offline but making some things just on serves could maybe prevent this.
That's completely impossible unless they remade the engine from the ground up, and they chose the current style of engine over those that mobas like to use for some good reasons.
All changes to the game state are simulated in-sync about 20 times per second on every client computer
|
On July 09 2015 08:04 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 07:44 RoomOfMush wrote: Against certain hacks there is not much you can do. Things like seeing the enemies production, resources, etc can not be counter acted. The problem is that these information are on the PC of every player playing the game. It is in the users RAM, nothing is preventing him from reading the values. Then maybe there should be a new system in place. It would kill offline but making some things just on serves could maybe prevent this. Something like Diablo or other games where most things are on servers instead of PC
Well they would have to rewrite the whole engine to be asynchronous...
Edit: I think Blizzard should be more responsive and "public" about the way they deal with hackers. Sure you can't catch 'em all from replays, but the community does a pretty good job for the most blatant ones on ladder, yet it seems only those caught in official tournaments and those using the "free account" trick ever gets bans. The one other exception I know of is Patchtoss who got banned on ONE of his account, but only the one he used to write on Bnet forums "I"m a hacker!".
Some people may be talking about a "protection software" to be in use with WCS, but I'd like to remind people that's not foolproof either and easily bypassed if the hacking community can get tom play with it for a few days, and might block Linux or Mac user from participating.
|
I heard that Heroes of the Storm is also having some problems with hackers. Considering the engine similarities, Blizzard should have a lot of incentive to kill two birds with one stone if antihack features from one game can be applied to the other.
|
Blizzard love their hackers, there's even a guy on EU ladder named Maphacker lol
|
On July 09 2015 09:14 varsovie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 08:04 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On July 09 2015 07:44 RoomOfMush wrote: Against certain hacks there is not much you can do. Things like seeing the enemies production, resources, etc can not be counter acted. The problem is that these information are on the PC of every player playing the game. It is in the users RAM, nothing is preventing him from reading the values. Then maybe there should be a new system in place. It would kill offline but making some things just on serves could maybe prevent this. Something like Diablo or other games where most things are on servers instead of PC Well they would have to rewrite the whole engine to be asynchronous... Edit: I think Blizzard should be more responsive and "public" about the way they deal with hackers. Sure you can't catch 'em all from replays, but the community does a pretty good job for the most blatant ones on ladder, yet it seems only those caught in official tournaments and those using the "free account" trick ever gets bans. The one other exception I know of is Patchtoss who got banned on ONE of his account, but only the one he used to write on Bnet forums "I"m a hacker!". Some people may be talking about a "protection software" to be in use with WCS, but I'd like to remind people that's not foolproof either and easily bypassed if the hacking community can get tom play with it for a few days, and might block Linux or Mac user from participating.
just from curiousity, are u varsovie_pat from twitch chat?
|
On July 09 2015 11:15 Obamarauder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 09:14 varsovie wrote:On July 09 2015 08:04 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On July 09 2015 07:44 RoomOfMush wrote: Against certain hacks there is not much you can do. Things like seeing the enemies production, resources, etc can not be counter acted. The problem is that these information are on the PC of every player playing the game. It is in the users RAM, nothing is preventing him from reading the values. Then maybe there should be a new system in place. It would kill offline but making some things just on serves could maybe prevent this. Something like Diablo or other games where most things are on servers instead of PC Well they would have to rewrite the whole engine to be asynchronous... Edit: I think Blizzard should be more responsive and "public" about the way they deal with hackers. Sure you can't catch 'em all from replays, but the community does a pretty good job for the most blatant ones on ladder, yet it seems only those caught in official tournaments and those using the "free account" trick ever gets bans. The one other exception I know of is Patchtoss who got banned on ONE of his account, but only the one he used to write on Bnet forums "I"m a hacker!". Some people may be talking about a "protection software" to be in use with WCS, but I'd like to remind people that's not foolproof either and easily bypassed if the hacking community can get tom play with it for a few days, and might block Linux or Mac user from participating. just from curiousity, are u varsovie_pat from twitch chat?
Well I spent plenty of time there often, but I'm not "from" it per say.
|
On July 09 2015 09:35 eviltomahawk wrote: I heard that Heroes of the Storm is also having some problems with hackers. Considering the engine similarities, Blizzard should have a lot of incentive to kill two birds with one stone if antihack features from one game can be applied to the other.
Yep the same probem is in Heroes of the Storm to now.
I dont say that my solution of things being on serves is super good but something must be done.
On July 09 2015 09:01 RoomOfMush wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 08:04 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On July 09 2015 07:44 RoomOfMush wrote: Against certain hacks there is not much you can do. Things like seeing the enemies production, resources, etc can not be counter acted. The problem is that these information are on the PC of every player playing the game. It is in the users RAM, nothing is preventing him from reading the values. Then maybe there should be a new system in place. It would kill offline but making some things just on serves could maybe prevent this. Something like Diablo or other games where most things are on servers instead of PC So all players without super high speed internet connections can no longer play the game and at the same time blizzard has to quadruple their server costs. A genius idea.
It was just an idea, they must do something to stop the hackers or they will go ramparant on Heroes to, same engine. They must find a way somehow.
|
On July 09 2015 19:48 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote: It was just an idea, they must do somthing to stop the hackers or they will go ramparant on Heroes to, same engine. They must find a way somehow. But thats the thing, there is not much they can do.
All data that is on your computer can be accessed by you. Blizzard can not do anything against that. If we assume that you only have the data of what you are allowed to know then all the other data has to be constantly sent to you as needed. This increases bandwidth costs immensely if you remember that there are millions of people playing concurrently with hundreds of units running around. And even then, hackers can still find ways to exploit it with the help of heuristics. They can still always show you the last known upgrade level for enemy units, or the last known positions, health values, energy values, etc. The hacks wont be as strong anymore but they will still be there.
And on top of that micro and macro hacks which really can not be stopped in any way. Everytime blizzard creates better heuristics to detect these hacks the hackers will create better hacks to trick the heuristics. Its a battle that blizzard can not win because hackers have infinite time and manpower, something that blizzard has not.
|
The ship has sailed on designing the game around a cloud to prevent hacks but the next best thing they can do at this point is to take a more vigilant stand in punishing hackers. Knowing Blizz they will probably just push LOTV out the door and ignore the rampant cheating six months at a time.
|
I would love for blizzard to address hacking in their next community update. Personally, I don't perceive hacking as a major problem on EU, but then again, I might be blissfully ignorant as I'm not really checking reps all too much nor do I play a style that benefits someone massively if hacking.
I would guess it's worse to be hacked against as T or P than macro Z (which is what i'm playing)
|
One of the benefits of this game being P2P, is that hacking is a lot more risky, as you might loose your investment if you do it. I think it would be enough if blizzard had a guy reviewing replays sent in by the community, banning the most obvious hackers. Although they would have to review multiple replays from the offending player, to be sure he is really hacking. It would probably be hard to spot the subtle hackers.
I also have no idea how many replays are submitted of hackers. It would probably be completely uneconomical to have a guy doing this
|
On July 09 2015 09:13 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +Then maybe there should be a new system in place. It would kill offline but making some things just on serves could maybe prevent this. That's completely impossible unless they remade the engine from the ground up, and they chose the current style of engine over those that mobas like to use for some good reasons. All changes to the game state are simulated in-sync about 20 times per second on every client computer Yes, fixing maphack will require recoding the entire engine.
But they should do it. If not just for SC2 then for HotS.
It's an embarrassment that Blizzard still can't fix maphacking in 2015. LoL solved maphacks in 2009, Dota 2 was released in 2013 and it is impossible to maphack.
By storing map information on the server not in RAM and recording the game state rather than the game as a list of instructions, just like what LoL and Dota 2 does, would allow Blizzard to simultaneously: (1) make maphacking impossible, (2) allow for instant reconnect (not 5 minutes of resume from replay in HotS), (3) allow for in-client game streaming.
Blizzard chose to code the game in a flawed and inferior way. It's time to fix it, despite the fact that the entire engine will need to be recoded.
If Riot and Valve can fix it, then so can Blizzard.
|
|
|
|