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This unit is full of gimmicks. Healing, Jumping cliffs, Grenade ability.
The grenade was put into the game to help Reaper usage in mid game or late game. The unit was good in the early game but then it totaly becomes useless.
Now the Reaper is the same as HotS, good in early game and then useless, the ability gaved us more frustration to defend it and the unit got more annoying in the start, also it promotes the same mass reaper all in like WoL had.
No one is using with bio play because it doesn work... it would always be way better to use WM instead of throwing grenades vs Ling/Bane Its just way more cost effective and more zoning...
I think this unit should be redesign, take its abilitys with the exception of cliff jumping and give it some upgrade for mid-game or late game.
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Hots Reapers with a techlab upgrade for the wol double damage reaper bombs.
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I myself can't be bothered by using reapers in midgame because I can't multitask like a progamer but just from the "on-paper" look I can see grenades very useful vs lots of ling/bane and mass marines (TvZ and TvT). Maybe strategies will develop and reaper grenade use will become the best way to engage armies in midgame. It took Zerg almost 2 years to expand before pool when the game came out.
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If you want reapers more useful in mid/late game, just ask BLZ to give back the anti-building grenade in WoL as an upgrade in the lab. With that, a handful of reapers could pop up out of nowhere and blow up a base in no time before your opponent reacts.
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On July 22 2015 01:59 404AlphaSquad wrote: Hots Reapers with a techlab upgrade for the wol double damage reaper bombs.
On July 22 2015 02:05 TedCruz2016 wrote: If you want reapers more useful in mid/late game, just ask BLZ to give back the anti-building grenade in WoL as an upgrade in the lab. With that, a handful of reapers could pop up out of nowhere and blow up a base in no time before your opponent reacts.
They wanted the unit to work with bio not by alone bombing stuff. We dont need old stuff.
The could just give a mid game upgrade that does something to the unit, maybe making good vs armored units... that way you could havea choice of either getting a buffy slowish marauder vs armored units or a faster unit that can snipe armored units and even go into battle with them... micro them like crazy.
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I play Archon mode almost exclusively.
TvT feels like 2-3 rax reaper openers on both sides is fairly common. If it's not Reaper vs Reaper, it feels like the person who opens Reaper has a tremendous advantage, and frankly; the mass Reaper vs mass Reaper micro battles feel pretty awesome right now because of the dynamic that grenades add.
Reaper vs non-Reaper ... throwing bombs in the mineral lines while dancing around the defense, it can utterly decimate income. Zoning out the defending bio with bombs is so satisfying. Actually, I think I just really like seeing concentric waves of units getting bounced around by the Reaper bomb. Ha!
Anyone have any non-bunker, non-banshee-rush openers that effectively deal with the 2-3 rax reaper opener?
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On July 22 2015 02:05 TedCruz2016 wrote: If you want reapers more useful in mid/late game, just ask BLZ to give back the anti-building grenade in WoL as an upgrade in the lab. With that, a handful of reapers could pop up out of nowhere and blow up a base in no time before your opponent reacts.
This is specifically why they removed it from the game...
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On July 22 2015 02:09 TimeSpiral wrote: I play Archon mode almost exclusively.
TvT feels like 2-3 rax reaper openers on both sides is fairly common. If it's not Reaper vs Reaper, it feels like the person who opens Reaper has a tremendous advantage, and frankly; the mass Reaper vs mass Reaper micro battles feel pretty awesome right now because of the dynamic that grenades add.
Reaper vs non-Reaper ... throwing bombs in the mineral lines while dancing around the defense, it can utterly decimate income. Zoning out the defending bio with bombs is so satisfying. Actually, I think I just really like seeing concentric waves of units getting bounced around by the Reaper bomb. Ha!
Anyone have any non-bunker, non-banshee-rush openers that effectively deal with the 2-3 rax reaper opener?
And this was not the idea when they gaved this ability... it was supposed to help their usage with bio... yet its used in mass reaper and other gimmicks.
Its basically shit design.
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On July 22 2015 02:09 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 01:59 404AlphaSquad wrote: Hots Reapers with a techlab upgrade for the wol double damage reaper bombs. Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 02:05 TedCruz2016 wrote: If you want reapers more useful in mid/late game, just ask BLZ to give back the anti-building grenade in WoL as an upgrade in the lab. With that, a handful of reapers could pop up out of nowhere and blow up a base in no time before your opponent reacts. They wanted the unit to work with bio not by alone bombing stuff. We dont need old stuff. The could just give a mid game upgrade that does something to the unit, maybe making good vs armored units... that way you could havea choice of either getting a buffy slowish marauder vs armored units or a faster unit that can snipe armored units and even go into battle with them... micro them like crazy.
First idea (an upgrade to make them useful in midgame) is not bad. But the second, to make them "microable like crazy" is very bad. Every terran knows he can't afford more micro when you have to manage armies full of tiny units like marines which die if left standing. And even now, terran's wrists get rekt regularly lol.
But I think the current grenade doesn't need buff but just a new mindset, or more likely, a big influx of pro players to really test things out. Because right now beta is mostly populated by bad players and a few good ones who are trying stuff out and not innovating yet.
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On July 22 2015 02:17 _indigo_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 02:09 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On July 22 2015 01:59 404AlphaSquad wrote: Hots Reapers with a techlab upgrade for the wol double damage reaper bombs. On July 22 2015 02:05 TedCruz2016 wrote: If you want reapers more useful in mid/late game, just ask BLZ to give back the anti-building grenade in WoL as an upgrade in the lab. With that, a handful of reapers could pop up out of nowhere and blow up a base in no time before your opponent reacts. They wanted the unit to work with bio not by alone bombing stuff. We dont need old stuff. The could just give a mid game upgrade that does something to the unit, maybe making good vs armored units... that way you could havea choice of either getting a buffy slowish marauder vs armored units or a faster unit that can snipe armored units and even go into battle with them... micro them like crazy. First idea (an upgrade to make them useful in midgame) is not bad. But the second, to make them "microable like crazy" is very bad. Every terran knows he can't afford more micro when you have to manage armies full of tiny units like marines which die if left standing. And even now, terran's wrists get rekt regularly lol. But I think the current grenade doesn't need buff but just a new mindset, or more likely, a big influx of pro players to really test things out. Because right now beta is mostly populated by bad players and a few good ones who are trying stuff out and not innovating yet.
LOL NO.
Im not talking about a grenade buff im talking about redesign... the grenade fail. And beta has pros in it... not bad players. I dont think you even play the beta when you say that.
Innovating what ? This is the exact same logic as ravager and roach... why get ravagers vs FF when roaches are cheaper and now go way faster with tunelling claws ??
Same concept of why get reapers with genades in mid game when you have WM.
In both cases there is no down side, cuz one option is cheaper, faster, less expensive and doesnt require much multi tasking or micro.
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Sorry but reaper grenade and widow mine does totally different things. Widow mine in TvZ can kill 10 banelings OR it can kill 3 lings and 10 stimmed marines. While reaper grenade doesn't kill anything but can throw all the lings away from your bio and they die while collecting again in a group. A much better tool if used properly but right now it's not used in midgame because ... well, I don't know why. But I know that i'm not able to do all those things at once right not when i'm learning new units.
Don't bash me about playing, don't be that kid everyone will start to hate. I play a lot of beta and clearly you have a much bigger problem if you compare reaper to widow mine rofl.
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Reaper grenade ability needs to be removed from the game as it is right now. It is exactly as OP said - it's just randomly added on and makes reapers more annoying early game for no reason for every race.
On top of that, you will never use a reaper past the first two minutes of the game. The only time you use reapers are for the really bad reaper all-in or for the 1-2 reaper scout at the start of the game.
They need to like give the reaper an upgrade on the tech lab later in the game that let's it put explosives on buildings or units or something for massive damage...so that there's a point to build them.
As is right now, reapers still are useless past the first 2 min of the game, and they are stupidly annoying at the start of the game with a free bomb ability that was randomly added into the game.
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Reaper grenade is really, really cool to watch. The fact that it doesn't really cause damage is kind of hilarious.
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It is pretty strong vs Zerg at the start. Never lost a TvZ when I reaper rushed.
Take the damage of this grenade away and let it blow up forcefields. No effect on massive units.
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We can have a unit that gives Terran the early game scouting and pressure they need. Or we can have units that are good in the mid and late game.
I do not think they can be both.
Reapers have a very limited scope, but it's vital that we have them or our early game sucks again. I agree that Reaper grenade is kinda useless after early game, but it did provide that little bump in early game strength that the unit needed in the transition from HotS to LotV.
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On July 22 2015 03:00 ROOTiaguz wrote: We can have a unit that gives Terran the early game scouting and pressure they need. Or we can have units that are good in the mid and late game.
I do not think they can be both.
Reapers have a very limited scope, but it's vital that we have them or our early game sucks again. I agree that Reaper grenade is kinda useless after early game, but it did provide that little bump in early game strength that the unit needed in the transition from HotS to LotV.
Maybe they can increase the cooldown and the damage? As it is the 10 damage is kind of meaningless. It's just annoying because of the knockback to be honest.
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On July 22 2015 03:00 ROOTiaguz wrote: We can have a unit that gives Terran the early game scouting and pressure they need. Or we can have units that are good in the mid and late game.
I do not think they can be both.
Reapers have a very limited scope, but it's vital that we have them or our early game sucks again. I agree that Reaper grenade is kinda useless after early game, but it did provide that little bump in early game strength that the unit needed in the transition from HotS to LotV.
I agree about everything baring the grenade. Since a hellion and a reaper have the same attack priority couldn't a better potential buff be to increase the reaper attack priority, forcing the zerg player to focus the hellions. I know zergs already do focus them but it just means that for the first few shots (if they're not looking at/using the queens) the reaper will soak the damage.
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On July 22 2015 03:07 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 03:00 ROOTiaguz wrote: We can have a unit that gives Terran the early game scouting and pressure they need. Or we can have units that are good in the mid and late game.
I do not think they can be both.
Reapers have a very limited scope, but it's vital that we have them or our early game sucks again. I agree that Reaper grenade is kinda useless after early game, but it did provide that little bump in early game strength that the unit needed in the transition from HotS to LotV.
Maybe they can increase the cooldown and the damage? As it is the 10 damage is kind of meaningless. It's just annoying because of the knockback to be honest.
That would make them broken, the reason why people don't build them later is because they're just not as effective as the alternatives. Trying to force it to compete breaks it's usage in other areas.
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Reapers seem fine for what they are: an early scout with some ability to use the grenade to disrupt workers or enable an escape in situations where they would normally die. The reaper does not force a tech choice and can be seen as an early game unit. As long as there are plenty of later options with other units I am OK with it. It's the position of the Marauder after the nerf I am concerned with.
Plus it is fun to watch the queens get flung around. Does the grenade interrupt charge - has anyone used them at this point in the game (I am guessing not)?
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On July 22 2015 03:07 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 03:00 ROOTiaguz wrote: We can have a unit that gives Terran the early game scouting and pressure they need. Or we can have units that are good in the mid and late game.
I do not think they can be both.
Reapers have a very limited scope, but it's vital that we have them or our early game sucks again. I agree that Reaper grenade is kinda useless after early game, but it did provide that little bump in early game strength that the unit needed in the transition from HotS to LotV.
Maybe they can increase the cooldown and the damage? As it is the 10 damage is kind of meaningless. It's just annoying because of the knockback to be honest.
Agree with this. It really doesn't feel satisfactory at all to use.
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