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Short simple request:
The option to set buildings to bind to a hotkey automatically.
Why? Binding a command center, or Hatchery, or production building, to the exact same hotkey, every single game, 10-12 times a game does not make the game more fun, tactical or compelling.
It makes the game more difficult but for the wrong reasons. It makes the game harder for newer players and forces pro's and newbie's a like to spend time on a menial task which does not contribute to anyone's strategy or enjoyment of the game.
I am acutely aware that some people will argue that there are other similar tasks in the game which may seem menial, but in fact actually contribute to the depth of the game significantly, and they would be correct. Even still, they may attempt to dissuade others from this request by quoting meaningful APM sinks like queen injects or queuing up units and try to draw a parallel to automating those processes and the negative effect it would have the game and again, while they would be correct, I am not arguing for the automation or removal of any other mechanisms.
I am arguing singularly and entirely, only, for the option to bind buildings automatically.
Rally behind me, make this happen, make Starcraft a game that is less chore and more fun.
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I have actually thought about something similar. With Camera Hotkeys, would be great if when you save your Cam Hotkey, it saves it for that map every game, then you can always rewrite if you play another race or want to take another third this time and so on. It becomes more important in LotV as you jump faster into the game.
For your suggestion, I do agree, maybe just under the Hotkey Menu, there should be a: "ALL Robotic's Facilities" and so on buttons.
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Bisutopia18980 Posts
It makes the game more difficult but for the wrong reasons. There are such vastly different opinions on this. Mine is one that completely disagrees with you. First my emotional response: Way to get my blood boiling! The whole point of the RTS is to constantly perform action in real time. If we continue to push the laziest route then what we have is a game like nexus wars where all you do is chose units and let everything else happen. This isn't casualGamingInc. I think some things that made SC2 mechanically easier then SC1 are good for all parties. But to be so lazy not to hotkey your main every game... lol.Your suggestion made my hair closer to falling completely out.
A rational explanation: Boxer is a great person to watch in the beginning of his sc2 games. He hotkeys all 10 keys to his CC as soon as the game starts. As the game progresses he uses up the hotkeys based on build order and strategy as the game progresses. So now let's ask blizzard, can you please also code for players who like to hotkey 2, 3, 7, all 10 hotkeys. Make it customizable across the board so we can have the easiest opening possible to our game. Boxer wants all 10 hotkeys at start, Parting wants just 7,8,9, BronzeLeagueJoe wants hotkey 1. So two things happen here: 1. Blizzard has a coding mess that won't make everyone happy unless they satisfy all scenarios.Maybe not difficult to code, but a hassle to perfect. 2. BronzeLeagueJoe doesn't evolve his hotkey settings. As he becomes SilverLeagueLarry and GoldLeagueClair he needs to continually update where his default hotkeys should exist. Instead BronzeLeagueJoe is lazy, already went into the options menu and doesn't want to set it to something better. Now BronzeLeagueJoe doesn't have a shot at becoming GoldLeagueClair or maybe even one day GrandMastersLeagueGoldberg! Let Joe go from gold to Goldberg! Too much casual will hold him back. Eventually depression sets in from him not growing in leagues and he becomes MobaMindy. And don't we have enough MobaMindys?!?!
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On July 29 2015 02:04 BisuDagger wrote:The whole point of the RTS is to constantly perform action in real time. I completely agree, but more so with the original poster.
The whole point of the RTS is to constantly perform meaningful/tough/intricate/not mechanical/not brainless action in real time.
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Essentially warpgates already do this for Toss. Every gate you make automatically shows up on "W" once it is transformed. So I could see this working but I don't think this is even on Blizzards radar or something they would consider. Nice post though.
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Bisutopia18980 Posts
On July 29 2015 02:13 Haukinger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 02:04 BisuDagger wrote:The whole point of the RTS is to constantly perform action in real time. I completely agree, but more so with the original poster. The whole point of the RTS is to constantly perform meaningful/tough/intricate/not mechanical/not brainless action in real time. I don't consider hotkey decisions brainless. This is an unchangable opinion. The point in the game or repetitiveness of it does not matter to me. When you assign a hotkey it is important to me every time.
not mechanical Completely disagree. Marine splitting is mechanical. We need a button to autosplit them too. Your version of an RTS makes me think people are just lazy.
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It's very easy to do, and one of the ways to get your mechanics going when you're a beginner. I strongly advocate against that idea.
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Every time when i see suggestions which just wanna make the game mechanically less demanding i think: "hm this might actually be a great change for some sort of newbie mode" Don't get me wrong, in the end i actually think your suggestion isn't even that bad, you pretty much hotkey your buildings etc the same way every single time. So i wouldn't even see this as a bad change, but i also don't think this is something important either. Nobody on this plant thinks to himself : "damn if only my hatchery would be on hotkey X as soon as the game starts, sry sc2 rip" I don't see how this makes the game more fun, at least not significantly => priorities should be somewhere else
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On July 29 2015 02:21 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 02:13 Haukinger wrote:On July 29 2015 02:04 BisuDagger wrote:The whole point of the RTS is to constantly perform action in real time. I completely agree, but more so with the original poster. The whole point of the RTS is to constantly perform meaningful/tough/intricate/not mechanical/not brainless action in real time. I don't consider hotkey decisions brainless. This is an unchangable opinion. The point in the game or repetitiveness of it does not matter to me. When you assign a hotkey it is important to me every time. Completely disagree. Marine splitting is mechanical. We need a button to autosplit them too. Your version of an RTS makes me think people are just lazy.
Going off on a tangent about how the sky will fall and why you believe we may as well automate significant interactions within the game, if we are to remove one redundancy; is a sure way of demonstrating that your arguments are very thinly attached to reality.
Automated binding buildings neither changes any unit interaction or strategic decision, whereas splitting marines does.
There are two intelligent ways to make the process optional:
1) A UI setting like you suggested. 2) Users select the building during the game then they hold a "modifier key and the key" it would be automatically bound to.
The first removes the need to bind entirely, but may hinder pro's so it is sub-optimal. The latter retains any strategic depth that may result of being able to change the hotkey on the fly.
Either way, the option alone would be an intelligent step forward for this game.
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I agree we disagree...
Sorry but I can't support this, at this point the game will be focused on playing Sims and microing sometimes in battles.
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On July 29 2015 02:04 BisuDagger wrote:There are such vastly different opinions on this. Mine is one that completely disagrees with you. First my emotional response: Way to get my blood boiling! The whole point of the RTS is to constantly perform action in real time. If we continue to push the laziest route then what we have is a game like nexus wars where all you do is chose units and let everything else happen. This isn't casualGamingInc. I think some things that made SC2 mechanically easier then SC1 are good for all parties. But to be so lazy not to hotkey your main every game... lol.Your suggestion made my hair closer to falling completely out. A rational explanation: Boxer is a great person to watch in the beginning of his sc2 games. He hotkeys all 10 keys to his CC as soon as the game starts. As the game progresses he uses up the hotkeys based on build order and strategy as the game progresses. So now let's ask blizzard, can you please also code for players who like to hotkey 2, 3, 7, all 10 hotkeys. Make it customizable across the board so we can have the easiest opening possible to our game. Boxer wants all 10 hotkeys at start, Parting wants just 7,8,9, BronzeLeagueJoe wants hotkey 1. So two things happen here: 1. Blizzard has a coding mess that won't make everyone happy unless they satisfy all scenarios.Maybe not difficult to code, but a hassle to perfect. 2. BronzeLeagueJoe doesn't evolve his hotkey settings. As he becomes SilverLeagueLarry and GoldLeagueClair he needs to continually update where his default hotkeys should exist. Instead BronzeLeagueJoe is lazy, already went into the options menu and doesn't want to set it to something better. Now BronzeLeagueJoe doesn't have a shot at becoming GoldLeagueClair or maybe even one day GrandMastersLeagueGoldberg! Let Joe go from gold to Goldberg! Too much casual will hold him back. Eventually depression sets in from him not growing in leagues and he becomes MobaMindy. And don't we have enough MobaMindys?!?!
In fact it's quite a good idea lol
And it would be both easy to implement and perfect. You could have different hotkey profiles in which you would specify the race and then attach any units/buildings to specific hotkeys (or combination of units). You could then save those hotkey profiles, select the desired one before your game and possibly switch between different ones during the game.
The only thing that you would need to do specifically in game is hotkeying a specific subset of units, like 4 of your 20 marines.
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On July 29 2015 03:00 Sogetsu wrote: I agree we disagree...
Sorry but I can't support this, at this point the game will be focused on playing Sims and microing sometimes in battles.
Sure, Shift clicking your 6th barracks in a row to number 7, is the only thing keeping SC2 from becoming the Sims. Give me a break.
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Bisutopia18980 Posts
On July 29 2015 03:13 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 02:04 BisuDagger wrote:It makes the game more difficult but for the wrong reasons. There are such vastly different opinions on this. Mine is one that completely disagrees with you. First my emotional response: Way to get my blood boiling! The whole point of the RTS is to constantly perform action in real time. If we continue to push the laziest route then what we have is a game like nexus wars where all you do is chose units and let everything else happen. This isn't casualGamingInc. I think some things that made SC2 mechanically easier then SC1 are good for all parties. But to be so lazy not to hotkey your main every game... lol.Your suggestion made my hair closer to falling completely out. A rational explanation: Boxer is a great person to watch in the beginning of his sc2 games. He hotkeys all 10 keys to his CC as soon as the game starts. As the game progresses he uses up the hotkeys based on build order and strategy as the game progresses. So now let's ask blizzard, can you please also code for players who like to hotkey 2, 3, 7, all 10 hotkeys. Make it customizable across the board so we can have the easiest opening possible to our game. Boxer wants all 10 hotkeys at start, Parting wants just 7,8,9, BronzeLeagueJoe wants hotkey 1. So two things happen here: 1. Blizzard has a coding mess that won't make everyone happy unless they satisfy all scenarios.Maybe not difficult to code, but a hassle to perfect. 2. BronzeLeagueJoe doesn't evolve his hotkey settings. As he becomes SilverLeagueLarry and GoldLeagueClair he needs to continually update where his default hotkeys should exist. Instead BronzeLeagueJoe is lazy, already went into the options menu and doesn't want to set it to something better. Now BronzeLeagueJoe doesn't have a shot at becoming GoldLeagueClair or maybe even one day GrandMastersLeagueGoldberg! Let Joe go from gold to Goldberg! Too much casual will hold him back. Eventually depression sets in from him not growing in leagues and he becomes MobaMindy. And don't we have enough MobaMindys?!?! In fact it's quite a good idea lol And it would be both easy to implement and perfect. You could have different hotkey profiles in which you would specify the race and then attach any units/buildings to specific hotkeys (or combination of units). You could then save those hotkey profiles, select the desired one before your game and possibly switch between different ones during the game. You did not simplify anything. It takes less then a second to assign a hotkey. Ctrl+Click to select all and the asign hotkey. Maybe more then a second to shit click any new ones in at other bases. You just overscoped on the idea. Now new players are expected to learn a system where the waste time loading in and out profiles and learning how to switch them on the fly if added in game. You are a developers nightmare.
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It doesn't help SC2 a lot because it isn't designed for it.
And the community is very much against anything that makes anything easier. You could probably try to bribe everyone on TL with a billion euro to have injects on autocast and even the zerg players would decline and rather keep on whining how unfun it is.
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On July 29 2015 03:23 Big J wrote: ...the community is very much against anything that makes anything easier. You could probably try to bribe everyone on TL with a billion euro to have injects on autocast and even the zerg players would decline and rather keep on whining how unfun it is.
There's a lot of truth to that, if the community suddenly discovered that Broodwar players were forced to play on a chair of nails, at least half of the community would be screaming for the rusty nail expansion kit.
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Basically, I think this is a terrible idea and shouldn't be in the game.
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Bisutopia18980 Posts
On July 29 2015 03:39 nottapro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 03:23 Big J wrote: ...the community is very much against anything that makes anything easier. You could probably try to bribe everyone on TL with a billion euro to have injects on autocast and even the zerg players would decline and rather keep on whining how unfun it is. There's a lot of truth to that, if the community suddenly discovered that Broodwar players were forced to play on a chair of nails, at least half of the community would be screaming the rusty nail expansion kit. You see the autocast on injects is something discussable.
Lets say the energy cost equals seconds so for autoinject it is 25 seconds. I'd be willing to let auto-inject happen on a 40 second cooldown. That way inexperience players still get their autoinjects, but not as efficiently. And pros can do it more efficiently then the autoinject since they are capable of doing so.
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On July 29 2015 03:13 nottapro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 03:00 Sogetsu wrote: I agree we disagree...
Sorry but I can't support this, at this point the game will be focused on playing Sims and microing sometimes in battles. Sure, Shift clicking your 6th barracks in a row to number 7, is the only thing keeping SC2 from becoming the Sims. Give me a break.
I can't believe it is a problem for you, it is a macro mechanic, if you want a break then take it, and come back when you want to actually play the game instead it being played for you.
It reminds me of people playing fighting games with commands move excecuted alone by setting them on a trigger or button... Seriously...
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While we are on the topic: I would like it so that you dont see your minerals / gas / supply anymore in the upper right corner. Thats way too easy. Only noobs are so bad that they need the game to keep track of their resources for them. You should count the resources yourself or play another game scrub.
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On July 29 2015 04:16 Sogetsu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 03:13 nottapro wrote:On July 29 2015 03:00 Sogetsu wrote: I agree we disagree...
Sorry but I can't support this, at this point the game will be focused on playing Sims and microing sometimes in battles. Sure, Shift clicking your 6th barracks in a row to number 7, is the only thing keeping SC2 from becoming the Sims. Give me a break. I can't believe it is a problem for you, it is a macro mechanic, if you want a break then take it, and come back when you want to actually play the game instead it being played for you. It reminds me of people playing fighting games with commands move excecuted alone by setting them on a trigger or button... Seriously...
Making buildings, placing them, building units, watching your resources, these are all macro mechanics. Binding buildings is not.
I highly doubt constantly re-binding already established hotkeys will be a big feature in LOTV marketing campaign. "Play Legacy of the Void, experience awesome game mechanics like constantly rebinding the same building hotkey to the same key over and over as you play in real time! Explore how it constantly forgets your settings with each additional building and match!"
Yeah ok, It's a "macro mechanic"
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