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PREFACE:
Having played with the Adept for many weeks now there are things I really like about the unit and others that I can tell are a little too much.
The Adepts interaction with the Marine early game specifically is pretty sad for the Terran. The Adepts overshadowing Zealots is also an issue, as Adepts stomp them head on and kind of fulfill their role in other matchups outside of base raids.
I do however LOVE the units shield based tankiness, that serves many purposes:
PROS:
- Combos brilliantly with Sentry Guardian Shield, microing your Sentry back and retaining the effect is actually possible here, while helping Zealots tank always put the sentry in range of damage.
- Allows Protoss a chance to go toe to toe with stimmed Terran M,M,M
- Gives Protoss the perfect excuse to get shield upgrades which ARE AMAZING, building armour bonus, plus super powered late game Archons.
- Adept is a great addition to Protoss however the problem of its light unit domination is still there.
CONS:
- Early game domination TvP, late game medivacs out dps their damage.
- Workers are easy pray, almost rewarding unit sacking to cost effectively trade workers.
- Psionic Transfer is invincible, and just like the Disrupter; this isnt fun for your opponent.
- My solution to this is to lower the units attack power massively but to introduce ground splash, similar to the Corsair in Broodwar, but still with a somewhat slow fire rate.
IDEA:
- Adepts retain High HP shields
- Deals 5 damage per hit in a 1 hex by 1 hex area
- Does not wreck marines early game, scales better with numbers, the addition of splash can act to counter medivac heal, slowly, by over whelming with multiple low damage unit hits across many units. (4-6 medivacs can only heal so many units at a time, splitting will help Terran)
- Its role is very different from the Zealot and no longer beats them PvP in low to medium or even high numbers
- stacked workers still a great target with low damage splash.
- Psionic Transfer has 45HP but can fly over any terrain, same time delay
- Adepts can now attack air units, responding to Muta flocks by sending transfers quickly over cliffs (transfer canceled over unwalkable terrain).
- Adepts become the much asked for answer to Muta outside of Pheonix
- As Adepts are ground units they cannot chase Muta only defend against them, Pheonix still have superior role in this area.
CONCLUSION:
This idea is based around scaling the units attack power with numbers, preserving its fun shield based lifebar and reining in its invincible psionic transfer in exchange for flight, potential and counter play (weak 45hp transfer).
A psionic transfer that can fly therefore led to the realisation that Adepts with weaker, splash attack potential could answer Mutalisks very dynamically.
I hope you guys like this idea, and I would be happy to discuss it!
I also shared this on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3fc87i/lotv_adept_design_idea_ground_corsair/
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Perhaps it should be moved to a higher tech level, like the requirement of twilight council to unlock it.
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Do you have to be a "community figure" or recognised e-celebrity to get noticed around here, holy shit.
I am sorry my e-penis isnt large enough to deserve a little attention on team liquid. -___-'
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On August 02 2015 02:17 features wrote: Do you have to be a "community figure" or recognised e-celebrity to get noticed around here, holy shit.
I am sorry my e-penis isnt large enough to deserve a little attention on team liquid. -___-' Being negative isn't going to get you anything but negative attention, you put a lot of time and effort into your guide, that is great and I commend you for your hard work, but don't get all worked up because no one has commented on this guide yet, keep fighting...
Be respectful...just because people haven't commented on it, doesn't mean they haven't looked at it or like it!
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People only comment in order to criticise, they scan my idea for faults, find none (Im sure it isnt perfect) and move along.
Its like the place is fuelled by negativity, got nothing shitty to say? May as well look else where, like how is that positive?
I know how to get attention online, Im an animator, good artist, design graduate, people like pictures and demonstrations but I dont know how to work StarCraft 2's editor to make video demos, I could learn once LotV gets its version but for now I just wanted to get ideas out of my system in hopes of it getting some traction.
I love the game, been around since 2007, I just want to throw my educated design ideas into the pot since Blizzard is asking for ideas, like do I need to be some recognised internet hero to do that? I hope not...
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I absolutely love these ideas, but the Adept should honestly be unlocked at Twilight or at the very earliest Cybercore and it should be balanced around an early mid game - early late game kind of Gateway unit that gives Protoss armies the strength needed to fight mid sized bio balls and Roach/Hydra.
The splash thing I totally agree with, I hope the Adept ends up looking something like this if they leave it as a base Gateway unit, it's a good unit but it's lop sided in strength, it needs to be evened out.
Less strong early game (I would like to be able to build Zerglings again in ZvP)
Stronger mid to late (It fails against Roach/Hydra and Medivac supported bio)
This unit is close to greatness
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You should post this on the battle net forums aswell, if you have not already.
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Isn't bnet forums still split by region? I don't feel like European perspectives get noticed very often, it would be nice to post on the NA forums, but I could try.
@jpg06051992 The current Adepts are actually atrocious against zerglings, unless behind a mineral line with little surface area. They kill zerglings very slowly, 5 seconds as opposed to a +1 zealots 2 seconds. They still 2 shot lings but because they fire so slowly (possibly overkilling) they take a lifetime to kill one. Zerglings definetly have a place against Adepts currently its just that their invincible transfer ability can get them freely into hard to kill choke points!
I would be curious how a slow damage splash Adept would deal with lings. I imagine they kill lings slower but stand a better chance over 8-20 seconds of wrecking a whole mob, scaling with numbers.
NOTE: I just found a flaw in my idea of flying psionic transfer, ground units cant hit air units.....
I imagined turrets could stop them..... but it was in my head that roaches and lings could stop transfer as well.... hmmm
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Just give shades cliff jumping then^^.
I post on NA forums from EU, not a problem.
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I have problems with Adepts in LotV and I really like the idea proposed here. With your suggestion - at low numbers, Terran can respond by splitting their marines a bit - this should be easier than when fighting banelings. At higher numbers, adepts can be more effective to some extend. However, unlike in the air fight, a ground splash has an upper-bound in its effectiveness. A range 1 splash however may be a bit too big, requiring the damage to be very low. This puts Protoss early game versus Terran from one extreme to another. Some balancing will be required.
The shade ability is more problematic however. If you let it fly, it becomes similar to blink. A low HP pool can make it nearly useless as a defense-bypass spell. High HP on the other hand can be difficult to interrupt due to shade speed. I think some more thought has to be put into this...
On August 02 2015 03:16 features wrote: I know how to get attention online, Im an animator, good artist, design graduate, people like pictures and demonstrations but I dont know how to work StarCraft 2's editor to make video demos, I could learn once LotV gets its version but for now I just wanted to get ideas out of my system in hopes of it getting some traction. I am quite the opposite: have some ideas and got some editor knowledge, but getting attention online - that's unfortunately my weakness. Maybe we could help each other?
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That sounds really helpful actually, I like the concept of making a demonstration video for youtube, with multiple visualised ingame ideas for discussion.
Similar to Blizzard's unit reveal trailers, but with multiple different versions of the same unit. It would be a showreel series that helps visualise unit design ideas, some of which could be helpful in influencing the direction of Blizzard and the enthusiasm of the community.
In my opinion games developers are just people with ideas, just like us, anyone can have a great idea, you dont need to be sitting behind a desk at Blizzard, the very fact that Blizzards asks us to help, and share ideas is reason enough to brainstorm it out!
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I really like this idea, and figured when the LotV was first showing new units, that was what the adept was. Didnt it used to have splash dmg?? Anyways, slightly lower dmg so it can't dominate marines (or scvs for that matter.. say 4 shots to kill SCVs??) in a small angle, I'm thinking kinda like the Templar Assassin from Dota except on an angle, each side? - either way, a splash attk that is weaker (but stronger in numbers obviously) that could do great vs lings and hydras, but terrible vs roaches, would fit right in the protoss army and even reduce the requirement of force fields.
And lategame, say Fleet Beacon, could be an upgrade to make them attack flying units, so protoss can deal with mutalisks better in our main army!
I really hope blizzard looks into making the adepts into a splash unit, since the collosus was nerfed and the disruptor is a one shot deal. Lings are going to decimate the protoss army with weaker warp-ins now.
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Splash is a dangerous pitfall. Especially on a unit that can easily be massed. Massed splash damage units scale incredibly well and in the end it might come down to a pure Adept army wrecking any ground force just because of the splash. Splash damage units always need a big disadvantage, some kind of flaw that can be abused by the other side, otherwise they will become a snowball and waltz everything down.
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On August 02 2015 20:02 RoomOfMush wrote: Splash is a dangerous pitfall. Especially on a unit that can easily be massed. Massed splash damage units scale incredibly well and in the end it might come down to a pure Adept army wrecking any ground force just because of the splash. Splash damage units always need a big disadvantage, some kind of flaw that can be abused by the other side, otherwise they will become a snowball and waltz everything down. You are bringing a valid and important observation. The downside of Adept is that its range is low, limiting the scalability. Secondly, the splash damage would be rather small, similarly to Corsair (e.g. 5) and wouldn't work well against units that have positive base armor values.
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Although Corsairs had very low damage output they were still a hardcounter once you got significant mass (around 7 or 8) and there was almost nothing zerg could do about them with air units. Now, with air units this isnt all that problematic because in BW air units are not supposed to be massed into a big army. But Adepts are ground units with an anti-ground attack. Even with relatively low damage output per shot I can still see a possibility of critical mass. A short attack range could potentially fix this by not allowing too many Adepts to ever attack the same target, but then it could become too weak again because of the low damage per shot. Its a slippery slope either way and finding the right balance could take quite a long time and some hard dedication.
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As I said earlier - unlike ground, air splash has no upper bound. You can stack as many of your units and the enemy can be arbitrarily clumped up as well, allowing you to deal a ton of localized damage. Neither of those is the case for ground army.
In Starcraft 2 there is air separation which can limit it a bit, but you can still clump up if you really want to.
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I don't want to say I endorse this idea, but it's really damn cool. I'd prefer a unit-limited splash factor though, like the Mutalisk, or like the original incarnation of the Adept. I think these are some neat ideas, but they could use a few rounds of editing and feedback.
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On August 02 2015 22:18 Pontius Pirate wrote: I don't want to say I endorse this idea, but it's really damn cool. I'd prefer a unit-limited splash factor though, like the Mutalisk, or like the original incarnation of the Adept. I think these are some neat ideas, but they could use a few rounds of editing and feedback. How about an attack that forks at up to 3 targets within a 90° angle in front of the Adept?
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Nice idea Features, love the concept.
Why not give the adepts the force field skill (with some rework) casted on themself like a shield instead of the sentry (solving a bit of the ff problem)? Maybe it can be combined with the transfer somehow ?
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On August 02 2015 22:23 RoomOfMush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2015 22:18 Pontius Pirate wrote: I don't want to say I endorse this idea, but it's really damn cool. I'd prefer a unit-limited splash factor though, like the Mutalisk, or like the original incarnation of the Adept. I think these are some neat ideas, but they could use a few rounds of editing and feedback. How about an attack that forks at up to 3 targets within a 90° angle in front of the Adept? Gosh, that's a pretty solid idea. That means that if you attack clumps of units, you're likely to get the full damage in, but if you attack well-split units, you'll often end up only hitting the one, regardless of their proximity otherwise. This is a more positioning-dependent attack than the glaive wurm system, because that shot can strike its next target at any angle within range.
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