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So, this thread is about the viper and how it is going to essentially ruin LOTV very quickly.
For those that don't know, the viper was arbitrarily given a super ability for late game Zerg -> parasitic bomb.
What does this do? It is basically like the pre-nerf fungal, it is an instant cast skill that locks onto an air unit and then acts like a seeker missile-over-time and kills anything around that air unit. I'm sure a lot of you understand where this is going.
The viper parasitic bomb is pre-nerf fungal on crack. What is currently happening in LOTV beta is every single TvZ has turned back into infestor broodlord, except instead of infestors, they are flying vipers with a super insta-cast fungal essentially.
There are things balance/design-wise that can be discussed as balanced or imbalanced, such as lurkers, liberators, etc. But i feel that the viper ability is not even up for discussion - it's absurdly broken and needs to be hot fixed/patched out of the game asap.
It probably also does not help that the raven was insanely nerfed to be useless that there is no counter to broodlord/viper in beta. But something tells me...even if ravens existed in HOTS form...viper brood/corruptor would still be ruining this game.
There is an issue when there is no counter to a unit in a game, or when the unit in question, the viper, in combination with broodlords is able to counter everything in the game, including it's own counters (vikings).
Viper parasitic bomb does not take any skill to use, nor is it fun to play against. It is incredibly frustrating to autolose when "the opponent gets there" to broodlord/corruptor/viper.
I hope people really get on blizzard about this. If people think this is not an issue or don't take this seriously, then i encourage you to come back and read this thread about a month or two from now when every single game in beta will be broodlord/corruptor/viper.
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lolol viper brood/corruptor ruins the game but turtling mech and not doing anything isn't ruining the game at all in your eyes?
lol I LOVE IT :D
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I think we just need to wait for the meta to catch up. Remember how abysmal ZvP used to be? You lose your whole 200/200 army and kill like 3 stalkers, but then zergs found a way to counter it. I think it will be countered somehow eventually. Also note how slow broodlords are and that vipers do not have infinite energy. If a parabomb lands on a unit that is separated from the rest, it is essentially wasted and you can clean up no problem. It's not as hopeless as you make it out to be.
Ghosts were also buffed for a reason, no where did you talk about them or try their new snipe ability which does insane damage. You also pretend like all these units are free for zerg and that they can make them instantly.
What's next people complaining ravagers are unbeatable early game? "You have to divert EVERYTHING into countering a few ravagers! WE NEED A HOTFIX NOW!", I bet there's a terran out there dying to let the world know of this if only he knew how to make a forum account. Seriously, everything seems imbalanced under the right circumstances, you need to chill and try to deviate from standard play.
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A nice intermediate nerf would be to change it from doing 90 damage over 7 seconds to doing 90 damage over 14 seconds, to give the other player a chance to split much easier, or to send their unit into your air space to leave the parasitic bomb hurting your units when it dies.
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Ever considered the fact you're just not very good ?
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Canada8157 Posts
On August 02 2015 09:08 blade55555 wrote: lolol viper brood/corruptor ruins the game but turtling mech and not doing anything isn't ruining the game at all in your eyes?
lol I LOVE IT :D
i love you
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On August 02 2015 09:08 blade55555 wrote: lolol viper brood/corruptor ruins the game but turtling mech and not doing anything isn't ruining the game at all in your eyes?
lol I LOVE IT :D
There never in the history of this game has been an unbeatable mech comp. There are always things you can do versus mech for any race, especially Zerg.
Broodlord/corruptor/viper is a comp that when you "get there" has no counter in the game from Terran. Because the vipers counter even their counter (vikings) extremely hard for no reason.
There is no reason for parasitic bomb to exist in this game. The new viper is the old raven on crack or old infestor on crack. It has a seeker missile that locks onto an enemy air unit and stays with that unit like SC1 irradiate.
The current viper in LOTV is basically a pre-nerf, Wings of Liberty flying infestor. It needs a hotfix asap.
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I think it's pretty obvious that when you put 4 really good spells on a single unit that units power goes through the roof.
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On August 02 2015 09:27 ejozl wrote: I think it's pretty obvious that when you put 4 really good spells on a single unit that units power goes through the roof.
Yep. Abduct, blinding cloud, consume for infinite energy, and then the parasitic mega seeker missile that can't-be-dodged on top of all of that.
There is a problem when you cannot even get vikings close to a single viper due to getting insta-fungalled...ooops, i mean parasitic bombed. It really does reek of 2011 "insta-fungals" "amazing fungals."
That's the entire reason i make this post today, so people are aware of how this thing is going to screw the beta so fast and hard...unless it's patched out asap.
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If you're letting zerg get to 200/200 corruptor/brood/viper then you've played the game completely wrong.
You might be astounded to know that you can actually *gasp* attack with mech now. You don't have to sit back until you think you've got the best army.
Then there's also the inconvenient truth that you're just not very good at the game right now, and noone should take your balance opinions seriously.
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On August 02 2015 09:32 deth wrote: If you're letting zerg get to 200/200 corruptor/brood/viper then you've played the game completely wrong.
You might be astounded to know that you can actually *gasp* attack with mech now. You don't have to sit back until you think you've got the best army.
Then there's also the inconvenient truth that you're just not very good at the game right now, and noone should take your balance opinions seriously.
Nice ad hominems. You literally have zero clue what you're talking about.
You sound like those same twitch chatters that used to say in twitch chats "don't let them get there guys, there's a counter to brood/infestor, blizz doesn't need to fix it."
1 yr later those same people saying the exact same thing while SC2 literally crashed and burned because people had no balls to speak the truth.
Obviously blizzard will never let that happen again we can only hope, and this will be patched asap instead of months from now before every game in the beta turns into this (which it already is).
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I play mech at a much higher level than you on the LotV ladder, and there are no zergs that can beat some of the new mech styles. Supernova and Top farmed Vibe (arguably the best zerg in the beta) for many games with various new compositions of mech as well. But whatever, of course I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm not going to bother lowering myself to your level much longer, but you have a terrible track record when it comes to balance threads. You've made balance whine threads to the tune of "OMG its just broken guys! I can't beat it so it must be unbeatable!" at various times throughout SC2's history regardless of the game's actual balance. Blizzard are not going to listen to you. You're just a bad joke to them by now.
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Most of the high lvl players on the ladder are Terran.. you should watch Supernova's stream once in a while if you wanna learn how to TvZ/TvP (his TvZ is unbeatable)
Yes Parasitic Bomb is OP but so are Liberators (Lib/Hellbat vs Z), Adepts, Lurkers etc. Theres plenty of OP stuff in the game, you just need to learn how to abuse your units properly
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On August 02 2015 09:32 deth wrote: If you're letting zerg get to 200/200 corruptor/brood/viper then you've played the game completely wrong.
You might be astounded to know that you can actually *gasp* attack with mech now. You don't have to sit back until you think you've got the best army.
Then there's also the inconvenient truth that you're just not very good at the game right now, and noone should take your balance opinions seriously.
OP content aside, the above bolded part has always been one of the most stupid arguments in an RTS thread, since as long as I can remember.
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On August 02 2015 09:42 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2015 09:32 deth wrote: If you're letting zerg get to 200/200 corruptor/brood/viper then you've played the game completely wrong.
You might be astounded to know that you can actually *gasp* attack with mech now. You don't have to sit back until you think you've got the best army.
Then there's also the inconvenient truth that you're just not very good at the game right now, and noone should take your balance opinions seriously.
Nice ad hominems. You literally have zero clue what you're talking about. You sound like those same twitch chatters that used to say in twitch chats "don't let them get there guys, there's a counter to brood/infestor, blizz doesn't need to fix it." 1 yr later those same people saying the exact same thing while SC2 literally crashed and burned because people had no balls to speak the truth. Obviously blizzard will never let that happen again we can only hope, and this will be patched asap instead of months from now before every game in the beta turns into this (which it already is). I feel the skill level of the person delivering the opinions is relevant. You have to consider the sources. And in this case it is a source that very frequently says how mech needs buffs, and everything used against mech needs nerfs, often without much support from top players or Blizzard. So no offense to you personally, but I'd take this more seriously from someone else.
I mean, maybe the viper needs a nerf, I'm not saying I got any clue. But then I don't think anyone got many clues at this point, and I suspect you may be a tad biased in your analysis.
Also, "SC2 literally crash and burn" :D Maybe I should put my sc2 CDs down in the basements or something to be safe.
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On August 02 2015 09:50 deth wrote: I play mech at a much higher level than you on the LotV ladder, and there are no zergs that can beat some of the new mech styles. Supernova and Top farmed Vibe (arguably the best zerg in the beta) for many games with various new compositions of mech as well. But whatever, of course I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm not going to bother lowering myself to your level much longer, but you have a terrible track record when it comes to balance threads. You've made balance whine threads to the tune of "OMG its just broken guys! I can't beat it so it must be unbeatable!" at various times throughout SC2's history regardless of the game's actual balance. Blizzard are not going to listen to you. You're just a bad joke to them by now.
I play mech at a way higher level than you brah...sorry. Anyways, you have a vendetta against me, try to keep it out of this thread as this thread is about something that is currently breaking the game or will show to break it very shortly when every single game heads towards brood/corruptor/viper.
If you have nothing to say about my original post, don't bother posting. No one cares about your GM ranking, let alone mine for that matter.
There is an issue with the game when there is a unit comp that has no counterplay, or counter involved from the opponent "when they get there." The new broodlord/viper is worse than the old broodlord/infestor, which says a lot in itself.
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On August 02 2015 09:24 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2015 09:08 blade55555 wrote: lolol viper brood/corruptor ruins the game but turtling mech and not doing anything isn't ruining the game at all in your eyes?
lol I LOVE IT :D There never in the history of this game has been an unbeatable mech comp. There are always things you can do versus mech for any race, especially Zerg.
Ok just stop, for the sake of all that is holy. You have the most biased opinion in SC2 foreign community, period.
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On August 02 2015 10:07 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2015 09:42 avilo wrote:On August 02 2015 09:32 deth wrote: If you're letting zerg get to 200/200 corruptor/brood/viper then you've played the game completely wrong.
You might be astounded to know that you can actually *gasp* attack with mech now. You don't have to sit back until you think you've got the best army.
Then there's also the inconvenient truth that you're just not very good at the game right now, and noone should take your balance opinions seriously.
Nice ad hominems. You literally have zero clue what you're talking about. You sound like those same twitch chatters that used to say in twitch chats "don't let them get there guys, there's a counter to brood/infestor, blizz doesn't need to fix it." 1 yr later those same people saying the exact same thing while SC2 literally crashed and burned because people had no balls to speak the truth. Obviously blizzard will never let that happen again we can only hope, and this will be patched asap instead of months from now before every game in the beta turns into this (which it already is). I feel the skill level of the person delivering the opinions is relevant. You have to consider the sources. And in this case it is a source that very frequently says how mech needs buffs, and everything used against mech needs nerfs, often without much support from top players or Blizzard. So no offense to you personally, but I'd take this more seriously from someone else. I mean, maybe the viper needs a nerf, I'm not saying I got any clue. But then I don't think anyone got many clues at this point, and I suspect you may be a tad biased in your analysis. Also, "SC2 literally crash and burn" :D Maybe I should put my sc2 CDs down in the basements or something to be safe.
I'm in no way, shape, or form biased, and i always consider making these threads under an alt account these days because too many people on here are going to see my username in the thread and completely ignore obvious problems with the game or ignore actual arguments.
I was the first person that tried to get people to get blizzard to fix broodlord/infestor back before that ruined the entirety of SC2 and let League of Legends come in and take all the e-sports viewers.
Not going to let it happen again, sorry. Something as bad as broodlord/viper that is uncounterable cannot stay in this game for even more than another week.
You do not have to believe me, but i would suggest people actually start discussing it in this thread right now instead of taking shots at me or whoever else.
Parasitic bomb IS a problem, and is threatening to kill this game.
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Parasitic Bomb is imbalanced in its current form. It actually nullifies airborne units versus Brood Lords, which is sort of laughable considering what BL compositions do to ground units.
As others have mentioned, the argument that it's okay a certain composition is unbeatable because it should never be reached is really, really bad.
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On August 02 2015 10:10 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2015 10:07 Cascade wrote:On August 02 2015 09:42 avilo wrote:On August 02 2015 09:32 deth wrote: If you're letting zerg get to 200/200 corruptor/brood/viper then you've played the game completely wrong.
You might be astounded to know that you can actually *gasp* attack with mech now. You don't have to sit back until you think you've got the best army.
Then there's also the inconvenient truth that you're just not very good at the game right now, and noone should take your balance opinions seriously.
Nice ad hominems. You literally have zero clue what you're talking about. You sound like those same twitch chatters that used to say in twitch chats "don't let them get there guys, there's a counter to brood/infestor, blizz doesn't need to fix it." 1 yr later those same people saying the exact same thing while SC2 literally crashed and burned because people had no balls to speak the truth. Obviously blizzard will never let that happen again we can only hope, and this will be patched asap instead of months from now before every game in the beta turns into this (which it already is). I feel the skill level of the person delivering the opinions is relevant. You have to consider the sources. And in this case it is a source that very frequently says how mech needs buffs, and everything used against mech needs nerfs, often without much support from top players or Blizzard. So no offense to you personally, but I'd take this more seriously from someone else. I mean, maybe the viper needs a nerf, I'm not saying I got any clue. But then I don't think anyone got many clues at this point, and I suspect you may be a tad biased in your analysis. Also, "SC2 literally crash and burn" :D Maybe I should put my sc2 CDs down in the basements or something to be safe. I'm in no way, shape, or form biased, and i always consider making these threads under an alt account these days because too many people on here are going to see my username in the thread and completely ignore obvious problems with the game or ignore actual arguments. I was the first person that tried to get people to get blizzard to fix broodlord/infestor back before that ruined the entirety of SC2 and let League of Legends come in and take all the e-sports viewers. Not going to let it happen again, sorry. Something as bad as broodlord/viper that is uncounterable cannot stay in this game for even more than another week. You do not have to believe me, but i would suggest people actually start discussing it in this thread right now instead of taking shots at me or whoever else. Parasitic bomb IS a problem, and is threatening to kill this game.
I know for a fact that the balance team knows about all the OP units/spells, trust me. The beta is gonna last for another 8-9 months.. pls be patient young padawan. Blizzard is focusing on making the game more interesting right now, im sure they'll eventually take care of all the balance issues.
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