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So considering that colosus doesn't truly add anything interesting you have considered removing the unit's power by reducing its DPS. I think this was a very good decision but it left a hole that protoss players are desperately trying to fill with cheesey plays. Here is my suggestion with a very very good reason:
Bring back the Amulet for the templars starting with 75 energy. Considering the pace of LotV I think its very much warranted it coincides strongly with what the LotV devs wish to accomplish. If i remember right the amulet costs was 200/200? I think that should be reduced down to the 100/100. This will bring templar openings into an interesting position along with adepts.
So, I like to do polls for obvious reasons because it matters what everyone's opinion is ( and I truly believe that) so Vote up!!
Poll: Bring back 75 Energy starting HTsYes! This is awesome idea Protoss shall rule the UNIVERSE! (52) 50% NO! are you madddd! You are giving protoss the universe!!!!! (40) 38% This is an ok idea don't see why but its an interesting idea for sure (6) 6% Umm.... Don't see the point (6) 6% 104 total votes Your vote: Bring back 75 Energy starting HTs (Vote): Yes! This is awesome idea Protoss shall rule the UNIVERSE! (Vote): This is an ok idea don't see why but its an interesting idea for sure (Vote): Umm.... Don't see the point (Vote): NO! are you madddd! You are giving protoss the universe!!!!!
So in conjunction with the original Poll there has been many things suggested that are legitimately a good idea and I think deserve to be in this OP to get a complete picture of the possibilities that can be voted on which are as follows:
Poll: Additional changes that could be made to soften the changeYou are an IDIOT!!! THIS AMULET THING WILL NOT WORK (also lichter is a baws) (6) 43% Make the amulet research 200/200 instead of 100/100 so it would cost 400/400 to get the Megalars (2) 14% Decrease the Storm radius to compensate for how many storms could be available (2) 14% Change the research to regain templar energy faster instead of starting with more (2) 14% Increase the Ghost EMP radius to make it not so OP in PvT (1) 7% I think just making the research available is good enough as in poll above (1) 7% 14 total votes Your vote: Additional changes that could be made to soften the change (Vote): Make the amulet research 200/200 instead of 100/100 so it would cost 400/400 to get the Megalars (Vote): Increase the Ghost EMP radius to make it not so OP in PvT (Vote): Decrease the Storm radius to compensate for how many storms could be available (Vote): Change the research to regain templar energy faster instead of starting with more (Vote): I think just making the research available is good enough as in poll above (Vote): You are an IDIOT!!! THIS AMULET THING WILL NOT WORK (also lichter is a baws)
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I rather see they buffing something else, storms are just disgusting.
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Maybe they should make colossus cheaper, smaller, and cost less supply, I want to see an army of those things.
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the main problem with 75 energy HTs was the fact that you could warp in templars wherever you needed them and instantly storm, there was a while when it was just completely impossible to attack a protoss in the lategame because wherever you tried to attack the protoss had HTs there 5 seconds later to storm your army to bits, which immediately afterwards merged into archons, I think reintroducing the amulet would reintroduce that problem since the metagame hasn't really shifted in a way that would make such tactics less viable.
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I think the entire reason of nerfing them is so we can see them less.. they are uninteresting and don't add a lot to what they are trying to achieve which is less deathball and more war of attrition much like tvz is
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the main problem with 75 energy HTs was the fact that you could warp in templars wherever you needed them and instantly storm, there was a while when it was just completely impossible to attack a protoss in the lategame because wherever you tried to attack the protoss had HTs there 5 seconds later to storm your army to bits, which immediately afterwards merged into archons, I think reintroducing the amulet would reintroduce that problem since the metagame hasn't really shifted in a way that would make such tactics less viable.
I would completely agree with you if we were talking about HOTS... but there in lies the problem alas we are not... we are discussing the future of LotV and there is an insane amount of options open for terran because of the pace of the game , liberators and how accessible Terran tech now is because of the pace of the game...
Edit: Here is the other thing for midgame which vastly effects the lategame and the position that you find yourself is widow mines against storm are actually quite effective when playing against chargelot archon....Also widowmines eat adepts LOL like seriously destroy wreckface total obliteration of adepts existence LOL
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I voted yes, but I'm pretty sure this isn't actually a good idea. But, playing HT with Khaydarin Amulets before the nerf was pretty much the most fun I've ever had in SC2, sooo...
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On August 03 2015 12:25 Roblin wrote: the main problem with 75 energy HTs was the fact that you could warp in templars wherever you needed them and instantly storm, there was a while when it was just completely impossible to attack a protoss in the lategame because wherever you tried to attack the protoss had HTs there 5 seconds later to storm your army to bits, which immediately afterwards merged into archons, I think reintroducing the amulet would reintroduce that problem since the metagame hasn't really shifted in a way that would make such tactics less viable. I fully agree with you, it would be very problematic with the HotS warpgate mechanic, the thing is that Warpgate is being reviewed now in LotV.
I actually find this idea pretty interesting OP. I hope the CM forward this to the dev team so they can try to find flaws on it.
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I would say testing it is worthwhile.
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On August 03 2015 12:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:Show nested quote +the main problem with 75 energy HTs was the fact that you could warp in templars wherever you needed them and instantly storm, there was a while when it was just completely impossible to attack a protoss in the lategame because wherever you tried to attack the protoss had HTs there 5 seconds later to storm your army to bits, which immediately afterwards merged into archons, I think reintroducing the amulet would reintroduce that problem since the metagame hasn't really shifted in a way that would make such tactics less viable. I would completely agree with you if we were talking about HOTS... but there in lies the problem alas we are not... we are discussing the future of LotV and there is an insane amount of options open for terran because of the pace of the game , liberators and how accessible Terran tech now is because of the pace of the game... Edit: Here is the other thing for midgame which vastly effects the lategame and the position that you find yourself is widow mines against storm are actually quite effective when playing against chargelot archon....Also widowmines eat adepts LOL like seriously destroy wreckface total obliteration of adepts existence LOL But the problem with Khaydarin Amulet isn't specific timings – for most timings you could just warp in templar earlier and have the energy ready in time. The problem is that in late game you reach a point where any time a Protoss is out of position they can just warp in some storms. Particularly given the economy changes promoting a lot more all-around-the-map play, that seems just as overpowered as it was in WoL before removal. It also probably promotes deathballs, since it's a lot of work to divide up your army all over the place to try and threaten Protoss in multiple places at once, and the biggest reason to do so is to snipe bases while being able to avoid Protoss's big AoE (colossus and templar). Meanwhile it's not a lot of work to simply warp in a couple HTs at each location you're being attacked, so against a Protoss with Khaydarin Amulet you're probably better served to just group up your army and attack in one place, because you're not gonna be able to catch Protoss out of position to avoid getting stormed.
On August 03 2015 12:51 Uvantak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2015 12:25 Roblin wrote: the main problem with 75 energy HTs was the fact that you could warp in templars wherever you needed them and instantly storm, there was a while when it was just completely impossible to attack a protoss in the lategame because wherever you tried to attack the protoss had HTs there 5 seconds later to storm your army to bits, which immediately afterwards merged into archons, I think reintroducing the amulet would reintroduce that problem since the metagame hasn't really shifted in a way that would make such tactics less viable. I fully agree with you, it would be very problematic with the HotS warpgate mechanic, the thing is that Warpgate is being reviewed now in LotV. I actually find this idea pretty interesting OP. I hope the CM forward this to the dev team so they can try to find flaws on it. Warpgate is being reviewed, but largely just offensive warp-ins to a pylon w/o a warpgate. In all suggestions proposed by David Kim, Protoss could still easily put a single warpgate at each Nexus late game and have 5-second warp ins like always.
Protoss is widely considered UP right now, and giving them something OP like warp-in storms might achieve an overall balance, but it would be a pretty precarious one which all hinged on that one ability. Surely Protoss players would have more fun if they had more than one kind of thing to go for in late-game, instead of always having to win on abusing Khaydarin Amulet because everything else they have i underpowered.
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Czech Republic12115 Posts
The only problem is in offensive warp ins. Where other races have to walk their casters across the map Protoss warps in. That's a problem and San showed it pretty clearly. (on the other way Templars are significantly slower than other races...)
Offensively it is a huge problem to warp in a caster with enough energy for the spell(Zergs cried rivers over sentry) and that's like the epitome of Warpgate problem. You cannot buff units from WG because offensively it's a huge problem. I really cannot see how they want to buff Protoss so they will be more solid race in LotV without redesign.
(and some say that WG doesn't have any problem)
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On August 03 2015 13:05 Wildmoon wrote: I would say testing it is worthwhile.
We did that for a year. It was the most imbalanced thing in the history of the game. Much worse than WOL fungal.
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Of course not, don't you remember how imbalanced it was? And you're even suggesting to make it easier to get. Protoss is not in a good place in the beta but buffing Templar will only make every Protoss go Templar. To encourage diversity in builds other stuff should be buffed.
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Biological units called. They want your head on a stick. What should i tell 'em ?
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It's a pretty cool dynamic, do I play greedy and get this upgrade first, or do I get Storm first. Also it used to work pretty well with Carrier play, which is always cool. It's a huge reason to Storm drop and make Prism harass so much stronger. It might be hella strong, but this is truly what I want Protoss play to be all about!
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if they severely nerf warp-ins then I could see a point. Otherwise hell no.
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No. If anything, measures should be taken to increase the importance of guarding the transfer of HTs from the production location to the frontlines. The only situation in which I'd support the reintroduction of Khadarin Amulet would be if warped in units start with 0 energy. That way, there'd me a massive defender's advantage in lategame Protoss play, in that they could, with a production time of 42 seconds, build storm-ready HTs directly from any Gateways that aren't transformed into Warp Gates.
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Nah... That kind of change is bound to create more problems.
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Ehh.... High Templars are a great unit against bio. I also don't think they are a particularly skillful unit. So I'd rather them come up with something new...
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Ehh.... High Templars are a great unit against bio. I also don't think they are a particularly skillful unit. So I'd rather them come up with something new...
I think the skill involved with using HTs is completely dependent upon the opponent you are facing....Someone clump A moves you T click ftw ez pz lemon squeezy but that's the same way when it comes to playing against banes against zerg... With LotV though I think these things are going to change drastically if they change offensive warp ins protoss is going to need something to keep up with the other races and I don't think this will be a pidgeon hole for builds I think this will be like stim for bio... if you go bio you NEEED stim so if you go gateway army you NEED amulet and consider the fact that you need to research both... it would be 300/300 before you would have the auto-storm and just to consider TvP Mech is going to become more prevalent in LotV mark my words...
Edit: Also Templars require attention to be effective if you are attacking at different parts of the map all at once you can't possibly storm at every location at once which means you could pick them off if you divide your opponents attention which combats the previous post about deathball armies....
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