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I don't want SC2 to become a moba game, each unit having a skill or spell to use and micro play becoming more powerful than macro play, that's not what SC2 is about.
This statement by Beastyqt expresses exactly how I feel about LotV atm.
Besides the removal of macro mechanics I have a huge problem with the current state of Protoss micro. I'm a mid master Protoss in HotS (150 apm). To me the current Protoss micro feels impossible to handle. You have to use forcefield, blink, storm, immortal shield and disruptor attack at the same time. There is barely no unit without activated abilities left. Toss shouldn't be the colossi a-click race anymore, but this feels just ridiculus. Good unit design isn't just about giving every unit lots of nice-to-watch-abilies.I think micro should be a lot more about about positioning and army movement than about spamming abilities.
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On August 25 2015 22:44 Tweeek wrote:Show nested quote +I don't want SC2 to become a moba game, each unit having a skill or spell to use and micro play becoming more powerful than macro play, that's not what SC2 is about. This statement by Beastyqt expresses exactly how I feel about LotV atm. Besides the removal of macro mechanics I have a huge problem with the current state of Protoss micro. I'm a mid master Protoss in HotS (150 apm). To me the current Protoss micro feels impossible to handle. You have to use forcefield, blink, storm, immortal shield and disruptor attack at the same time. There is barely no unit without activated abilities left. Toss shouldn't be the colossi a-click race anymore, but this feels just ridiculus. Good unit design isn't just about giving every unit lots of nice-to-watch-abilies.I think micro should be a lot more about about positioning and army movement than about spamming abilities.
Welcome to Terran, lol! Literally every units has some sort of necessary activated ability in order to be effective, and it's been that way since WoL. I don't dislike activated abilities, but I really wish that I had access to all of them if I have all of the units selected, as opposed to making a sub-selection within my selection to access an ability. That always seemed silly to me.
Welcome to TL, brother!
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Welcome to Terran, lol!
It's true that terran micro is very hard, but it's not all about activated abilities. If you play bio the activated abilities u have to use in fights are stim and emp/snipe. Micro is mainly about postioning and army movement (stutter step, splitting, ..). If u play mech micro is mainly about postioning (and maybe drops). So while terran micro is most likely the hardest micro to master it's not all about spamming activated abilities.
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They seem to have understood that there is nothing exciting about activating a void ray's laser or clicking the right button to launch an immortal's shield. WoL void ray and HotS immortal were infinitely better. The less "don't forget that click" abilities, the better. I think that will come with the "fine tuning".
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Colossi will still be as good as it is in HotS, Zealtos now are absurdly strong... Adepts can still simply Amove to tank damage and attack... as well Archons. Avoid using more than 2 or 3 units that require Micro and you will be fine. Seriously, there is no need to use ALL of them at the same time.
The Immortal is gonna be changed anyway, so don't worry about it a lot, mainly the old micro of Templar and Stalker will be needed.
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Cannot agree more as a "forever platinum recently turned into diamond" HotS player. Just to sum up some compositions I have been experimenting with in LotV beta (please note you are reading a casual player with 90ish APM, unfortunately being a 30 year old guy with responsibilities kind of makes it hard to play a lot):
- Adept/Stalker: more/less manageable, - Adept/Stalker/Disruptor (pre-redesign): holy cow, I either failed to activate the nova in time, or failed to escape (warp prism or not), or failed to do anything else aside from microing the disruptor - Adept/Stalker/Void ray: psionic shift+blink+prismatic allignment = GOD PLEASE HELP ME - Adept/Stalker/Immortal: most of the time I was late acivating shields
One could blame the "shock" caused by stepping away from deathballs, but honestly this just makes me want to go one-base adept all day every day instead of trying to figure out the new macro design and play games longer than 5 minutes.
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ChargeLots, Adepts, Archons, Collossi, Templar... then Aclick and Storms/Feedback, you win, for sure. Maybe it is not THAT GOOD with the Collossi nerf but it will be, or replace Templars with Disruptors and it is the same...
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Is this a thread to just shit on how we have to handle micro with strong precision?
Because if so, I fucking agree 110% lol
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In small fights the extra abilities are often welcome. But I agree in huge army clashes it gets cumbersome. Do you split your army as needed and focus fire or tab 6 times to get to an ability that might be on a dead unit by the time you get to it. Do you make 6 control groups before the battle to avoid tabbing, and add to those 6 control groups as you make more army?
What I often try to do is get 3 control groups, and only have 2 types of unit per control group at most, or just have the one unit with the ability be the default option when I select that control group. It's better than nothing, but it is weird sometimes. I really miss BW pathing because you could control a whole fight without control groups sometimes.
I don't know. I like some abilities a lot, but the immortal in particular could use some help.
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I don't think there is that much of an issue with Protoss by itself. The core army units (zealot,adept,stalker) are still very strong in a-move situations and you rarely have all the spell casters.
So in HOTS you would have an army like stalker/immortal/sentry/high templar. Usually you'd have a bunch of sentry or you would have a bunch of high templar but only in select PvZ scenarios would you have a large group of both.
In LOTV, you add in the immortal shield, adept, and disruptor. Adepts shadow isn't a battle micro ability though there are a couple of cute things you can do with it. Immortal shield requires the exact same mouse movement as blink stalker micro so treat it as such. Disruptor is the only new thing that really adds complexity to your large army fights. A high templar, stalker, disruptor, sentry army should be the most difficult thing in the game for a protoss to handle so saying it is "impossible" after playing LOTV for only a couple months is expected. If after a year of practicing with it you are still dissatisfied then maybe it's a problem.
There is however an issue when comparing how many things a protoss needs to do compared to a Terran. This is due to the liberator being kind of a joke but I don't think the Protoss difficulty should be lowered. I think once the liberator gets nerfed, Terran will need to use bio + mine + ghost + liberator + viking and that should hopefully balance out the difficulty. I don't know how zerg plays right now so I can't comment.
In terms of the design of the units and number of active abilities, that's a much deeper question and one that I believe would require a change in macro mechanics design. That's however a question for another time.
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one thing I have to help is move all the import abilities to the same key for example "e". then it's a matter of clicking the units you want to l and hitting "e", click other units click "e".
This has really made it so I can manage more units in the same amount of time.
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PvZ is pretty fun with Guardian Shield,Force Field, Immortal Shield, Adept, Blink, Disruptor, and badum ts Storm! :D
It's a lot of abilities, and quite frankly, its very hard to control. I don't think they can change it.
Maybe a nice change would be when u have selected all your units, u can use any of their abilities without actually clicking on them, just by using the hotkey.That'd be cool.
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SoCal8898 Posts
the problem comes from past iterations of protoss being pretty a-move-y. and, really army engagements in general. blizz is trying to introduce more exciting mechanics into the game.
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Ah the good old days...
With the tankiness of Adepts, Zealots, etc and to be buffed Collosi we can relive those days. Maybe throw in an extra key for storm, and remove the CTRL, and 1 key for F2
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SoCal8898 Posts
ha, yeah. what a time to be alive, it was.
im glad that both zerg and protoss have more to do during a battle though. zerg from a personal standpoint, and protoss because it used to be so damn easy. it was one of those things where i'd be able to offrace moderately well simply knowing a build
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