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I like the direction SC2 is going to with the removal of macro mechanics.
Especially in early game, tho, zerg doesn't need auto injects. Therefore making it an upgrade is worth thinking about and it could add further strategy when implemented in a good way.
I believe that it is extremely important for the quality of zerg lategame to have auto injects. Constantly spreading creep on a large scale and injecting 5+ hatches simply does take away too much of any level zerg player and results in passive/unintersting play at lategame. It is more important to keep the creep spread and injects up than interacting with your army/units and opponent most of the time.
Either give zergs auto injects by default when getting a lair or make it a cheap upgrade is the idea to be discussed.
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This actually looks reasonable.
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They should just remove the stupid "macro" mechanics, not this "easy mode" garbage they've introduced!
Its like they are designing a game for 10yo kids!
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Dumbest thing i ever i heard, this is a half assed option. Either you remove all macro mechanics or you make them all automated to be simpled and forgetfull.
You can disable autocast until you get Lair if you feel that bad.
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On September 02 2015 20:27 MurlocBoss wrote: Dumbest thing i ever i heard, this is a half assed option. Either you remove all macro mechanics or you make them all automated to be simpled and forgetfull.
You can disable autocast until you get Lair if you feel that bad.
What is happening right now is the removal of chrono, automated half efficiency injects and keeping manual terran mechanics without mules. How does this fit into your world of hating half assed options?
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This is pretty dumb no? If everyone feels that strongly about things needing to be dumbed down/easier why don't they just have different levels of game assistance up until masters so that people slowly can build their mechanics up whilst not screwing the game for the top levels. Sure the game wouldn't be balanced as well at lower levels but that's not exactly the #1 issue at lower leagues.
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On September 02 2015 20:31 LSN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2015 20:27 MurlocBoss wrote: Dumbest thing i ever i heard, this is a half assed option. Either you remove all macro mechanics or you make them all automated to be simpled and forgetfull.
You can disable autocast until you get Lair if you feel that bad. What is happening right now is the removal of chrono, automated half efficiency injects and keeping manual terran mechanics without mules. How does this fit into your world of hating half assed options?
Next patch has automated MULE, Chrono and Injects. Its basically removing macro by making it automatic but still getting the benefits of it.
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I'm not exactly sure what problem you're trying to solve here.
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1, Late game? Zerg problem? Constant spreading creep late game? PROBLEM??? ----> Try to micro your heart out marine vs baneling and told me which one is more difficult
----> Introducing late game auto-inject?? What a solution for bad player.
2, Early game, zerg doesnt need auto-inject much. ----> again, what an argument. ----> you are probably right, especially in the highest pro level play. But to those lower skill, perhaps, diamond or even low master, this is false. Just look at the pro stream, and see.
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Bad idea. Just remove macro mechanics or leave them manual. Auto macro mechanics are terrible and rolling them into an upgrade for some reason is convoluted.
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On September 02 2015 20:41 KeksX wrote: I'm not exactly sure what problem you're trying to solve here.
The ZvZ autoinject that kill you if you go for a wall against ling aggression is the only possible answer.
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yeah... an upgrade to change the functionality of macro is stupid
auto inject is fine for reasons that have already been covered - the apm just goes somewhere else, and if it's too easy or too hard for zerg to macro you just change the larvae counts. it doesn't affect a lot. but changing during a game from manual to auto inject is probably one of the worse ideas i've ever heard for sc, no offense
it's like making multiple building selection an upgrade lol
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So many chimps being aggressive - TL forums are full of drama queens.
I assume that you are trying to balance out the macro actions that, for instance, a Terran has - place buildings, make add-ons, swap add-ons etc with those that a Zerg has to do early game. Whilst recognising that in the later game, once the production facilities are up and supply depots are all placed that T&P don't need to go back to their base so much so auto-inject is fairer.
Is that it? If so the upgrade should be enabled at no cost once Lair is built.
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On September 02 2015 21:16 brickrd wrote: yeah... an upgrade to change the functionality of macro is stupid
auto inject is fine for reasons that have already been covered - the apm just goes somewhere else, and if it's too easy or too hard for zerg to macro you just change the larvae counts. it doesn't affect a lot. but changing during a game from manual to auto inject is probably one of the worse ideas i've ever heard for sc, no offense
it's like making multiple building selection an upgrade lol
I just want this to be discussed, I am not advocating it. Mainly in order to address complaint about t/p having alot more tasks with placing buildings in early game.
Orbital command is an upgrade to command center that changes the functionality of macro. Is it outright stupid?
On September 02 2015 21:22 DeadByDawn wrote: So many chimps being aggressive - TL forums are full of drama queens.
I assume that you are trying to balance out the macro actions that, for instance, a Terran has - place buildings, make add-ons, swap add-ons etc with those that a Zerg has to do early game. Whilst recognising that in the later game, once the production facilities are up and supply depots are all placed that T&P don't need to go back to their base so much so auto-inject is fairer.
Is that it? If so the upgrade should be enabled at no cost once Lair is built.
Exactly.
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Well the problem with the proposed change (which sounds good) is the problem with "how many larvae". auto inject will atm result in 3 (previous 2 larvae) to keep the nerfed version but still need to macro it would be stupid. To have the option of manually inject for 4 larvae instead of auto on 3 after upgrade feels like it needlessly complicates things.
Maybe its a good idea though, maybe you could keep manual injecting on 2-3 bases for optimal amount of larvae and then transition to auto at 3-5 bases. This could keep the skill-ceiling too since soO could inject manually for more units even mid-late game and save the cost of the upgrade. With this idea though I think the upgrade should be on the hatch and only require a spawning pool since it wont be too powerful early anyway since it gives less larvae, but it does give the option to lesser skilled macro players to upgrade it early and focus on micro.
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It had to be the same amount of larva as without the upgrade for sure. Otherwise it would be downgrading.
Interesting about the idea is that the decision to make a lair or to stay longer on hatcheries gets an additional meaning.
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Maybe if Inject was a lair upgrade, but inject-> autoinject should not be
Instead eliminate the reason for auto inject.
have spawn larva take 5 seconds (but hatcheries only hold a max of 5 larva..instead of 19)
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On September 02 2015 22:32 Krikkitone wrote: Maybe if Inject was a lair upgrade, but inject-> autoinject should not be
Instead eliminate the reason for auto inject.
have spawn larva take 5 seconds (but hatcheries only hold a max of 5 larva..instead of 19)
People need to realice that having hatcheries spawn more larva breaks the early game and is waaay harder to balance than what it looks like because it would require to balance all the early game units and those are core army units.
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Just turn off auto inject (and all other macro auto cast) when people reach diamond or masters.
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On September 02 2015 22:39 00Zarathustra wrote: Just turn off auto inject (and all other macro auto cast) when people reach diamond or masters.
Thats a really bad idea, turn off it off so people have to relearn the game all over again and falls down to gold league.
Having the game be easy and then get hard is counter-productive, its much much easier to learn the right way from the start. Macro mechanics require repetition for someone to become decent at it to remove that repetition just means you will have a mountain to climb when you have to re-learn your thought process and priorities during the games.
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