Community Feedback Update - September 4 - Page 6
Forum Index > Legacy of the Void |
ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
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PorkSoda
170 Posts
I've been reading about how devastating adept harass can be so that was my strategy in these games. I was able to cut through the Terran mineral lines like a hot knife through butter. Then I followed up with a quick push up the ramp about a minute or two later and it was over in both games. Like I said, this is a small sample size. But here are some of my general feeling. 1) I don't see a purpose for the zealot in early game. Maybe that was intentional when blizzard made the adept, idk. 2) Autochrono is powerful. My probes maxed quickly and that allowed me to pump out upgrades and robo units without much thought. I just need remember which nexus is autocasting on what building (Not difficult in my opinion). 3) If you're terran and you lose a lot of scv's to a mineral harass, you lose the game. Protoss can hit with with a warp prism full of adepts really quickly. Defensive play around the mineral line is more important than ever. 4) The games seems to progress incredibly fast in the beginning because all the probes you start with. 5) I think the MULE autocast is pointless because it takes all decision out of it, and it makes it impossible for a terran to recover from a bad scv harass. I remember a fantastic game I watched where PartinG beautifully harassed a terran mineral line with blink stalkers, forcing the terran player to use all his OC energy on mules, and then PartinG ended the game with DT's because his opponent had no scans. That's great tactics and high level play right there. It's a small part of the game but I think it is a large part of what makes SC2 great on the highest level. One last thing. I think my opponents responded very poorly to my mineral harass. They did not pull their scv's quickly. They had no units or static defense that could attack the adepts quickly. They just seemed woefully unprepared. Maybe it was their first foray into LotV and they hadn't read about it as much as I have. idk. | ||
Rowrin
United States280 Posts
I dont really understand why they have to be so tanky in the first place either, wasn't that the zealot's job? What are zealots good for nowadays when for 25 gas you essentially get a ranged zealot that is much more tanky? | ||
Ryndika
1489 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Game is too easy or too difficult due to macro changes discussions Good job Blizzard on including the motivations behind reconsidering macro mechanics as-it-stood. Korean pros calling for it is certainly grounds to investigate a change. I still think they should've reconsidered, along the lines of the famous retort on teamliquid, but at least they provided us this.We’ve heard the discussions on both sides of this topic. Our perspective so far is that we think there’s still plenty of both micro and macro mastery needed in StarCraft II, and freeing up some clicks per race does look to be a good direction to go. While we hear some pro gamers who say things like “macro is so easy that everyone’s macro will be equal now”, we highly doubt they will all be playing at the highest possible skill level due to these changes. Further, we’re definitely not seeing perfect macro from any of the three races right now. Last weekend, we looked at pro-level players competitively playing archon mode and we were able to point out plenty of player mistakes in terms of macro, micro, delayed reaction times, etc. This is with two pros playing as one, so we just imagine how big the skill-gap among professional players would still be especially in 1v1 games. We’d also like to remind everyone that the direction we’ve taken here has come out of the community summit where top-tier Korean pro players nearly unanimously said that even HotS is way too difficult to master in all aspects. As we discussed the topic with them, reducing the clicks and work needed on macro mechanics was the best solution we came up with in that discussion group. We just wanted to point this out, because there does seem to be some disconnect between the Korean pro players’ opinions vs. some crowds of people making conclusions on what they believe Korean pros would think on these changes. Adept Anything to make my TvP early game focus around ensuring I don't immediately die to adepts while I'm still getting stim out and the natural is hard-ish to defend.We’ve tried various upgrades for the Adept this week, and realized that we do really want a more straightforward upgrade for this unit. As a core unit, the Adept is already pushing it in terms of ability complexity, and the unit itself (even without any upgrades) is already in a cool, distinct spot. However, we do still agree that a health upgrade on an already tanky unit is probably not the best way to go. We’ll most likely try out a different, simple stat upgrade for this unit’s upgrade slot soon. Separate from the Adept upgrade, we wanted to discuss one additional topic for the Adept. Currently there’s an issue where Adepts are very difficult to counter with tier 1 or tier 2 units on Protoss. There’s also another potential issue of early game Terran bio not having a solid counter to Adepts since Adepts counter Marines in the early game, and Marauders are only soft counters to the Adept. Here, we’re testing a version of the Adept that is armored instead of light. Cyclone damage We agree with the general feedback here that the AA damage can use some help in the late-game. We’d like to improve this perhaps by pointing the ability damage to be more +armored focused so that not all air units are countered easily by the Cyclone in the late game. Still, we would like to also point out that having the initially lower damage (before the +damage research) has been a good thing because it allows the opponents to harass against players teching to early Cyclones; it also gives opponents enough time to react before the upgraded Cyclone comes into play. Liberator strength This we believe is mostly a timing thing. Sometimes, Liberators come into play before the counters are ready, and especially with the use of Zero-ground on some maps, they can become very difficult to deal with. We don’t think it’s a good idea to have to build maps around this unit going forward, so we believe a good solution here would be to bring the upgrade back into the game. This would allow us to have a tool to control the timing of when Liberators can start attacking ground units a bit better. We probably don’t need the armory requirement in this case, because the upgrade requirement as well as the tech lab needed for the first Starport might already be enough of a nerf. | ||
Hider
Denmark9237 Posts
PartinG beautifully harassed a terran mineral line with blink stalkers, forcing the terran player to use all his OC energy on mules, and then PartinG ended the game with DT's because his opponent had no scans. That's great tactics and high level play right there Really? Sound like a basic strategy from 2011! High level strategies are decisions that are much more difficult to figure out. | ||
PorkSoda
170 Posts
On September 10 2015 18:54 Hider wrote: Really? Sound like a basic strategy from 2011! High level strategies are decisions that are much more difficult to figure out. Well I'll be the first to admit that I'm a newb (<100 games on HotS), but I thought how well he employed that tactic was great. My bigger point was that the MULE requires no choice or thought at all now. It's just there to prop up the terran and make them playable. At least with autochrono you can change what building it's being cast on. | ||
FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 10 2015 16:29 Rowrin wrote: Yeah I'm done till Adepts get nerfed. TvP is essentially unplayable. They are too tanky and deal too much damage early on to Terran. Terran is either flat out dead, or 90% crippled after any halfway decent warp prism + adept drop. I dont really understand why they have to be so tanky in the first place either, wasn't that the zealot's job? What are zealots good for nowadays when for 25 gas you essentially get a ranged zealot that is much more tanky? While I entirely agree that adepts are broken to the point of game ending vs T (really I don't see too much dmg done at all), I feel simply reducing their "vs light" dmg to 22 would do wonders. Would cause them to 3-hit marines and SCVs, greatly reducing their strength early game specifically and not really affecting PvP or PvZ. Also, they wouldn't be able to 2 hit stimmed, combat shield marines if a medivac hadn't healed them yet. | ||
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