On October 04 2015 23:37 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
Yeah brood war being easier to play than SC2, that's just funny. Not quite, it is way harder and more complex. SC2's main point of difficulty is knowledge of hard timing attacks & counters. In Bw there is more creativity, harder and more complex micro and macro. You have to keep thinking a lot more while you play, instead of follow the usual plan up to the last detail including how many of which unit at which second. It is not like that, it always depends on what happens in this particular match you are playing, you must change details, and of course that is harder and more fun, it's not just fixed knowledge execution. It is faster paced because there is generally more things going on on the map at a time or on a larger area and battles last longer so your attention is constantly demanded kind of everywhere, that's the main reason why you need more APM. I'm drawing this a bit hard against SC2, I know SC2 has some of those characteristics Starcraft has it is not zero but it is much less than is usually said I think, and they happen a lot more rarely in games whereas it is all the time in Starcraft. When I played SC2 I stopped when I realized every single game of it I played was less good than every single game I play in Starcraft. (I was in Master league, I'm about a B in Starcraft).
Tbh I think in Brood War if we would add building selection & production in groups like Starcraft 2 and also automine, it would save some time and make it just a bit more practical while not making the game much easier. I don't have any problem at all with group building select & prod in Starcraft 2, or automine, and I would say neither with being able to group all army in 1 group. Cause like OP said I really agree with that, its not about how many clicks but having a lot of clicks which are also decisions. If I hit 5Z6Z7Z8Z to produce 4 zealots I have made the same decision than if I hit 5ZZZZ so the latter system is better. It does not bring any limitation. Useless key hits go away. They should patch this into bw. The rest of the game is very hard anyway so we would just those extra little seconds on other things, and it would allow macroing out of more than 4-5 gates in mid game from a distance better and keep managing other things better... it won't make us suddenly be perfect. If anything being allowed time to think as well is definitely a good thing lawl. We have to remember they patched the rally point for buildings being doable with just right click instead of R + left click like 10 years after the game came out. This was a good change, it is a useless key hit. For pretty much the same reason I vouch for automine completely. Also I think the reason why 1A works too well in Starcraft 2 is because of the weak positional/movement game. If you implement 1A in Starcraft "noobs" will stop having headaches trying to move their army, and better players will still want to select smaller groups for positioning and for being able to select individual units in the UI at the bottom (so they would want to keep a 12~16 max group so as to have big enough squares to see & click fast at the bottom).
I don't believe Starcraft 2 has any chance of recovering of all the design faults it had from the start, and also I don't believe that Blizzard will ever be able to make great games again, they are a machine that responds to producers/shareholders now and all the skills are long gone, so it can't be a Starcraft 3. So, I think to play and improve Brood War... or some other game, or a Starcraft 3 if a skilled team is allowed to take the "rights" ^^
Yeah brood war being easier to play than SC2, that's just funny. Not quite, it is way harder and more complex. SC2's main point of difficulty is knowledge of hard timing attacks & counters. In Bw there is more creativity, harder and more complex micro and macro. You have to keep thinking a lot more while you play, instead of follow the usual plan up to the last detail including how many of which unit at which second. It is not like that, it always depends on what happens in this particular match you are playing, you must change details, and of course that is harder and more fun, it's not just fixed knowledge execution. It is faster paced because there is generally more things going on on the map at a time or on a larger area and battles last longer so your attention is constantly demanded kind of everywhere, that's the main reason why you need more APM. I'm drawing this a bit hard against SC2, I know SC2 has some of those characteristics Starcraft has it is not zero but it is much less than is usually said I think, and they happen a lot more rarely in games whereas it is all the time in Starcraft. When I played SC2 I stopped when I realized every single game of it I played was less good than every single game I play in Starcraft. (I was in Master league, I'm about a B in Starcraft).
Tbh I think in Brood War if we would add building selection & production in groups like Starcraft 2 and also automine, it would save some time and make it just a bit more practical while not making the game much easier. I don't have any problem at all with group building select & prod in Starcraft 2, or automine, and I would say neither with being able to group all army in 1 group. Cause like OP said I really agree with that, its not about how many clicks but having a lot of clicks which are also decisions. If I hit 5Z6Z7Z8Z to produce 4 zealots I have made the same decision than if I hit 5ZZZZ so the latter system is better. It does not bring any limitation. Useless key hits go away. They should patch this into bw. The rest of the game is very hard anyway so we would just those extra little seconds on other things, and it would allow macroing out of more than 4-5 gates in mid game from a distance better and keep managing other things better... it won't make us suddenly be perfect. If anything being allowed time to think as well is definitely a good thing lawl. We have to remember they patched the rally point for buildings being doable with just right click instead of R + left click like 10 years after the game came out. This was a good change, it is a useless key hit. For pretty much the same reason I vouch for automine completely. Also I think the reason why 1A works too well in Starcraft 2 is because of the weak positional/movement game. If you implement 1A in Starcraft "noobs" will stop having headaches trying to move their army, and better players will still want to select smaller groups for positioning and for being able to select individual units in the UI at the bottom (so they would want to keep a 12~16 max group so as to have big enough squares to see & click fast at the bottom).
I don't believe Starcraft 2 has any chance of recovering of all the design faults it had from the start, and also I don't believe that Blizzard will ever be able to make great games again, they are a machine that responds to producers/shareholders now and all the skills are long gone, so it can't be a Starcraft 3. So, I think to play and improve Brood War... or some other game, or a Starcraft 3 if a skilled team is allowed to take the "rights" ^^
Actually, the reason BW was "balanced" was because it was hard for most players to actually be able to use units effectively. Bad designed got covered up by bad UI. So what if unit A was imba vs unit B, you'll never get to the critical mass where it matters anyway so yolo.