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On October 09 2015 02:02 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 02:02 felisconcolori wrote: Wait. What if they made it so the cyclone, like the hellion and viking, could transform?
Into a Warhound, probably. What if they made it transform into the liberator and reworked both units a little so their abilities were more similar?
I've seen the transform thing a few times now, and I think I like it. But part of me thinks the design needs to be closer to what the unit already is, because of impending release date.
CYCLONE TRANSFORM IDEA - Get rid of lock on - Transform (A) is anti-ground attack. - Transform (B) is anti-air attack. - Tweak each mode so that it behaves and feels different.
Or you could make the Cyclone a mech healer, like the medivac. It's pea-shooter kinda looks like a grappling hook. Maybe give it a grappling hook ability to micro mech units around with it (sieged tanks, mainly, and this assumes medivac tanks go away). Doing this would remove the Cyclone's attack completely. Rework cost, etc ...
But, I would gladly forfeit the Cyclone for a Tier (3) unit that doesn't suck.
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I'd still rather just drop widow mines on protoss than use cyclones. Shit is so much more fun
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I agree with the OP 100%.
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If cyclones arent fun name me one terran unit from hots or lotv that is
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It would help if the visuals and sound didn't suck. In BW upgraded Goliaths shot awesome blue missiles everywhere while making a cool noise. Cyclones just make a weak-ass pewpew sound and you can barely see the projectiles. Balance and design issues aside, the unit desperately needs another FX pass.
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Blizz said that they won't do any changes from now apart small balance updates. I don't think there will be any unit changes. Just think about the LotV tourneys starting from November 10th when it's released.
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I'm of the opinion that while I totally hate the unit and think it is both ugly and low skill cap that it can still be salvaged through balance tweaks post release?
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On October 09 2015 05:20 Athenau wrote: It would help if the visuals and sound didn't suck. In BW upgraded Goliaths shot awesome blue missiles everywhere while making a cool noise. Cyclones just make a weak-ass pewpew sound and you can barely see the projectiles. Balance and design issues aside, the unit desperately needs another FX pass.
100% agree with that !
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Thank you, Iaguz.. I have been trying to find a use. I can't find one single use for Cyclones, maybe to kill a couple stalkers or roaches until they get A moved on in the later game...
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Doesn't the auto lock-on have a cooldown? Say, a half of the kiting period? If it does, it can be simply defeated with a large number of fast and cheap small units i.e. speedlings, stimmed marines, or blink stalkers, even chargelots. However, this won't be a problem for the pros who can manually target at specific enemy units to lock on.
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good post! I think the real issue however is that sc feels like you HAVE to make a new unit for the new exp. New game, new shit! Im pretty sure noone would be talking or playing sc2 if they went full port of hots but changed the way all units worked instead . . but i could be wrong with that because im never bored of this game . . so at least id be playing . .
Im still in the camp that not everyone is playing lotv, i mean really, im not seeing anything but archon from real pros. If nothing changes by christmas, im sure we can either call this post a good shout or let the community figure out the cyclones viability throughout the game.
im always convinced when blizz release new units, they know the spot its trying to fill so the play testers utilise it in this manner and it has their desired results. Give it to 1 million players of varying skill and then, as you put it, a by product of design people start the abuse or infact the total wrong way to utliise it. Im pretty sure one of their play tests would have been mass cyclone and over many games it didnt seem to be a problem if the other guy knew or scouted it was happening
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Well this backfired horribly.
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Nice article and nice picture.
Its quite frustrating to see how everything is turning out to be (a cluster f*** of unit design) especially when you see how the design has evolved from its predecessor.
In BW, factory units consisted of the vulture, tank and goliath. The vulture would be the fast unit which occupied several key roles like being meatshields for the tanks, zoning space via mini nukes and harass. The tank is the core ground firepower for the mech army but is very immobile. Goliaths provide the essential AA (instead of having to get air units) and were easily accessible. The beautiful thing about these three units was that the factory could stand on its own and depending on the enemy composition, all one had to do was adjust the ratio of the 3 as the game went along.
In HOTS, we get widow mines, hellions, tanks and thors. Widow mines overlap with siege tanks plus they also hit air. Hellions while being able to harass and be meatshields ala hellbats don't quite zone space (spider mines imo was one of the most important pieces for an mech army as it covered up immobility weakness). Siege tanks don't have enough firepower yet they cost more and take up more supply (plus a million hard counters). Thors are too clumsy and mineral intensive to provide a solid AA option requiring need for starport units ala viking. Unlike its predecessor the factory units NEED the support from starport based units. One cannot just adjust the ratio between the 4 to take on different type of enemy composition. Needless to say, the factory units here act better as support units.
Now in LOTV, we get two more additional units in the form of the liberator and cyclones. Liberators are literally a flying thor with siege mode for AtG. Cyclones on the other hand I have no idea what role they are trying to fill (Plus the lock on ability just doesnt fit in the world of SC). What are the purpose of these two units? Why not just take out the siege tank and have the liberator only because the way I see it, they've combined two units that somewhat get rid of each others weakness e.g. can get only attacked by air units so one can't just mass zealots say in TvP against a liberator line and ignores terrain and is fast unlike a thor.
Its a complete mess. From a perfect harmony of 3 well thought out units to 4 units that is less efficient at the same task at hand into 2 additional units that make others redundant or don't have any real advantage as into why they are there in the first place.
Imo all they had to do was the following: -Replace thors with cheaper more accessible GtA AA option. Be it a goliath or something idm because it takes far too long and far too many resources to get thors only to get tech switched or magic boxed. Not only that but they are very slow. This also means that you won't get viking vs viking wars because I can go with a ground unit to offset that air advantage**. -Tanks need to be lower supply/cost less or simply do more damage to certain types e.g. massive/light or shields. Especially against protoss. I think this has been spoken out for the past 5 years. -Hellions/hellbats are somewhat ok but i always liked the idea of hellions with abilities to drop flaming bettys (forgot the TL user who suggested this idea) to zone space or add more to the meat shielding because the transformation between one type to another is so cumbersome.
**I really dont like how they are putting TOO much emphasis on air units especially AtG options at each races disposal. Air units are far too powerful throughout this game without the proper ground AA units. The air vs ground dynamic is too onesided imo and there was a reason why most AtG attacks were pitiful in BW other than capital ships..
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On October 10 2015 06:25 Ovid wrote: Well this backfired horribly.
Blizzard didn't make the current balance iteration based on a day of testing after this thread being posted to the community feedback update. It hasn't backfired, it has generated valuable discussion.
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I love cyclones such a fun unit to open the game. You can really use the insane range later on too.
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pic so awesome, iaguz is right its a stupid unit and should be scraped
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When does Iaguz gets picked up by TL?
that Iaguz artwork is beyond glorious.
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you will need them to destroy super fucking OP ZERG/Protoss lategame.
Broodlord Viper can go against any ANTI-AIR. Same goes for carriers + stasis bomb
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On October 12 2015 11:57 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: When does Iaguz gets picked up by TL?
that Iaguz artwork is beyond glorious.
When he is good, then maybe
User was warned for this post
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