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This issue that I'd like to bring up isn't the top 1%'s problem.. it's more the bottom 1% problem
it's a problem many won't give 2 seconds time to think about
it's a problem even the blizzard developers probably paid no mind to
however the struggle is real... especially for us mechanically bad players...
Now I will say.. I am masters in Hots.. but my use of hotkeys is... limited.. to put it nicely.
This was not an issue going from Wings to Hots.. at least.. i don't remember it being an issue... however Blizzard has screwed with me on this...
All I ask is that things remain in the spot they were between versions.. All 3 races are rearranged to a degree.. do you know how hard it is to rely on pressing the icons vs. using the keyboard to build units vs. structures is?!?
I know what you're thinking.. is this guy serious? YES!
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I can see this becoming an especially annoying problem with grid hotkeys. Going from WoL to HotS, I was accidentally building Reapers instead of Marauders and Mines instead of Tanks.
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i mean it's a game and I can see them changing this. lobby it up.
personally I think it's a self-issued challenge though. like playing non-dominant hand in a racquet sport. sure you can beat most of your peers and it has applications when you least expect it to, but to do it seriously Is a different story. and so completely understandable that it hasn't been in consideration.
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I can promise you that this more of a bottom 30%-40% problem and not a "bottom 1%" problem.
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Call me skeptical, but I have a VERY hard time believing you can get to masters without using hotkeys.
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it's very annoying for us grid players. Also signficiantly they swapped fungal and ITs too. and with grid there is no way to change single hotkeys, not to mention that as a long, long time grid player I'm used to knowing from the position of a button which hotkey to press so I dont even want to customize it. (when Im unsure because f.e. Im offracing).
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I had the same issue switching from wol to hots with reaper and marauder being inverted in the grid, what you can do is just edit all shortcuts yourself and bind the new shortcuts with your old grid ones, it s kind of a custom grid.
For example, my shortcuts are mainly like a grid, but it allows me some exception like to use the same key for 'burrow mine' and 'siege tank' despite it s not in the same spot on the display grid. Or my rax shortcuts are like a grid exception made with marauder and reaper ones being inverted.
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I actually like it more. But what I would love the most, is that if you could put the buttons where you want them to be on the panel. That would make me so happy as a Grid user.
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On October 08 2015 09:11 pwninate wrote: Call me skeptical, but I have a VERY hard time believing you can get to masters without using hotkeys. I dont use building hotkeys at all.
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On October 08 2015 09:11 pwninate wrote: Call me skeptical, but I have a VERY hard time believing you can get to masters without using hotkeys.
Zerg players can.
OP, why you don't use this opportunity to improve your mechanics? Stop being so lazy.
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This is going to mess with my 6 year old daughter.
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They should just let us costumize the layout, so we can drag the icons to where we want them to be!
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On October 08 2015 22:42 Tiaraju9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2015 09:11 pwninate wrote: Call me skeptical, but I have a VERY hard time believing you can get to masters without using hotkeys. Zerg players can. OP, why you don't use this opportunity to improve your mechanics? Stop being so lazy. Gotta love that kind of reaction, very appropriate
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On October 08 2015 22:45 Musicus wrote: They should just let us costumise the layout, so we can drag the icons to where we want them to be!
Ah this was already mentioned .
On October 08 2015 22:32 FeyFey wrote: I actually like it more. But what I would love the most, is that if you could put the buttons where you want them to be on the panel. That would make me so happy as a Grid user.
Yep it would make a huge difference for grid users, would be really nice!
I made my own custom grid by rebinding the standard hotkeys, so I can use rapid fire. Changing a few spells around would be really helpful!
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that's amazing brave post lol I can't believe you play without hotkeys why??? haha but at the same time, why not??? it amazes me
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You can literally MAP any key to ANY structure / ability in the "Hotkeys" Menu.
If you really are CLICKING manually. Then moving buildings shouldn't be an issue. (Takes what... 2 games to learn where to click)
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On October 08 2015 22:43 meadbert wrote: This is going to mess with my 6 year old daughter.
I was the thinking the same thing for my kid.
But wow, I am shocked a masters player can get away with this. Hey, more power to the OP if that's how he wants to play. As for Blizzard, there is no reason they should mess with this.
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Oh jeez, let me get David Kim on the line right now, better get this squared away ASAP.
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erm, you should never use the UI buttons to build stuff....ever....so.....
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Switch to Protoss and just click-build Adepts.
Easy game, easy life...
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I use Grid set up and that's actually really annoying, if it ispossible I would like them to go back.
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Just learn to use hotkeys. There is no reason for not using them.
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I'm also a grid user and I had to make a custom hotkey profile to match my old settings (went from WoL to LotV Beta). Whats really bad is that some hotkeys are linked between units/buildings. For example "cloak" and "uncloak" are linked for ghosts and banshees. Because i want snipe and emp on y and x, i have to use c and v for cloaking and uncloaking banshees now, and not only for ghosts, as it used to be. That's really annoying. I would really like an option to disable these linkages. They should also allow us to move the icons around freely. There is no downside to it.
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On October 09 2015 00:47 crazedrat wrote: Just learn to use hotkeys. There is no reason for not using them.
If you are using hotkeys to build things--you have moved way past casual level gaming commitment.
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On October 09 2015 00:19 loft wrote: You can literally MAP any key to ANY structure / ability in the "Hotkeys" Menu.
If you really are CLICKING manually. Then moving buildings shouldn't be an issue. (Takes what... 2 games to learn where to click)
After 5 years of clicking, you can't just learn new muscle memory in 2 games
It's not hugely detrimental it's just very annoying.
I just don't see a reason to move it. Why not leave it be? Or give us bad players a way to arrange ourselves.
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On October 09 2015 01:48 Ignorant prodigy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 00:19 loft wrote: You can literally MAP any key to ANY structure / ability in the "Hotkeys" Menu.
If you really are CLICKING manually. Then moving buildings shouldn't be an issue. (Takes what... 2 games to learn where to click) After 5 years of clicking, you can't just learn new muscle memory in 2 games It's not hugely detrimental it's just very annoying. I just don't see a reason to move it. Why not leave it be? Or give us bad players a way to arrange ourselves.
Ignorant get good man
But seriously guys. He is Masters. And he plays without hotkeys. I've seen him do it. It's.... disturbing.
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On October 09 2015 01:25 Naracs_Duc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 00:47 crazedrat wrote: Just learn to use hotkeys. There is no reason for not using them. If you are using hotkeys to build things--you have moved way past casual level gaming commitment. Well there's nothing casual about SC2 ladder lol. I mean just turn on 'show hotkeys', look at the command card and press the letter. It'll still be faster than clicking even if you have to look them all up. Within 20 games you'll know most of them.
Though I guess there is really no reason for blizz to fuck with the command card placement so OP has a point here. Also really impressive to get masters without using the keyboard o_O
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On October 09 2015 00:46 Ve5pa wrote: Switch to Protoss and just click-build Adepts.
Easy game, easy life... I guess you didn't read the latest patch.
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On October 08 2015 09:11 pwninate wrote: Call me skeptical, but I have a VERY hard time believing you can get to masters without using hotkeys.
In my ex team we had a master that didn't use building or army hotkeys. It's perfectly doable
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There's a diamon/low master guy playing random that's quadriplegic and uses a pen in his mouth, and that master guy that played Protoss with an X-Box controller.
The point his yes it's more efficient to use hotkeys, but it's also way more efficient to actually do your actions and have a general strategy than doing random shit too late like players under master does.
Although I'd suggest the OP, if he has 2 working hands, to man up, put a post-it on that command card and start learning hotkeys. You may even fall of to Diamond for a while, but that might be the only way to improve to GM, and while takes more than 2 games the basics are really easy to get. [troll] He might be playing Zerg and they don't require micro at all or even control groups to select production buildings, but it helps to be able to hold down "R" instead of getting index tendinitis. [/troll]
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On October 08 2015 22:42 Tiaraju9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2015 09:11 pwninate wrote: Call me skeptical, but I have a VERY hard time believing you can get to masters without using hotkeys. Zerg players can. OP, why you don't use this opportunity to improve your mechanics? Stop being so lazy.
Lol. There's a pro (I think Chinese) Protoss player who doesn't use hotkeys. No control groups at least. Maybe minimal building-stuff-keys.
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Bisutopia19035 Posts
Put pictures of buildings on your keyboard. Starcraft Emoji keyboards for each race should make everything alright.
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At first I thought this was a Grid keybind issue but when I read it the second time I realized it's not. I think the OP should take this as an opportunity to learn how to use his/her keyboard <laugh>
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Haha I play random. I'd need 3 keyboards
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Bisutopia19035 Posts
On October 09 2015 02:56 Ignorant prodigy wrote: Haha I play random. I'd need 3 keyboards You'd be such a badass.
"PP! I need to swap my keyboard to the correct race!"
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Old but still fully functional.
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I could use that, totally
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This thread is out of control =))))
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There was a nice game between dragon and maximusblack (GM at the time I believe) where dragon won without using the keyboard. Was pretty cool to watch.
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Anyone remembers DRG showmatch when he was using chopsticks?
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On October 09 2015 02:15 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 01:25 Naracs_Duc wrote:On October 09 2015 00:47 crazedrat wrote: Just learn to use hotkeys. There is no reason for not using them. If you are using hotkeys to build things--you have moved way past casual level gaming commitment. Well there's nothing casual about SC2 ladder lol. I mean just turn on 'show hotkeys', look at the command card and press the letter. It'll still be faster than clicking even if you have to look them all up. Within 20 games you'll know most of them. Though I guess there is really no reason for blizz to fuck with the command card placement so OP has a point here. Also really impressive to get masters without using the keyboard o_O
True BW casuals always used the keyboard.
Arrow Keys to move around the map and the Mouse to click attack and patrol commands. Because, you know, "it was easier "
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this is really annoying!
fortunately I moved to a - based on grid - custom hotkey layout...
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On October 09 2015 03:24 varsovie wrote:Old but still fully functional. Control and 1 can be replaced with F2 now, but Protoss is way harder than this makes it out to be. There should at least be an F for force fields.
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On October 09 2015 03:24 varsovie wrote:Old but still fully functional. That's why protoss players only give up with 'g'. They really should have made it a 'gg' button.
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On October 08 2015 22:42 Tiaraju9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2015 09:11 pwninate wrote: Call me skeptical, but I have a VERY hard time believing you can get to masters without using hotkeys. Zerg players can.
How so? Can you imagine making 60 zerglings by clicking the zergling button? It would take forever. I don't know of any zerg players that could do that regularly. Sure, click every once in awhile (perhaps for upgrades), but certainly not for unit production.
It is common for players to not use ARMY hotkeys, or to use them dynamically (i.e. make them right before you need them, and constantly change it), though.
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Just have custom hockeys and its fine. Also this layout makes more sense than the old one.
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On October 09 2015 06:27 AlphaPancake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2015 22:42 Tiaraju9 wrote:On October 08 2015 09:11 pwninate wrote: Call me skeptical, but I have a VERY hard time believing you can get to masters without using hotkeys. Zerg players can. How so? Can you imagine making 60 zerglings by clicking the zergling button? It would take forever. I don't know of any zerg players that could do that regularly. Sure, click every once in awhile (perhaps for upgrades), but certainly not for unit production. It is common for players to not use ARMY hotkeys, or to use them dynamically (i.e. make them right before you need them, and constantly change it), though.
You only click 30 times
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On October 09 2015 06:45 Ignorant prodigy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 06:27 AlphaPancake wrote:On October 08 2015 22:42 Tiaraju9 wrote:On October 08 2015 09:11 pwninate wrote: Call me skeptical, but I have a VERY hard time believing you can get to masters without using hotkeys. Zerg players can. How so? Can you imagine making 60 zerglings by clicking the zergling button? It would take forever. I don't know of any zerg players that could do that regularly. Sure, click every once in awhile (perhaps for upgrades), but certainly not for unit production. It is common for players to not use ARMY hotkeys, or to use them dynamically (i.e. make them right before you need them, and constantly change it), though. You only click 30 times
I already tap the Z the number of times I need lings instead of just holding down Z. No different with clicks.
Most noobs use arrow keys to move the screen (Because of FPS games) and click on what buttons they need to happen (Because hotkeys are hard)
You are no longer a casual player once you get past those practices.
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On October 09 2015 06:56 Naracs_Duc wrote: You are no longer a casual player once you get past those practices.
Maybe IRL but here on TL "casual" is somewhere between mid and top masters, while anything above gold is "noob"
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On October 09 2015 08:40 neptunusfisk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 06:56 Naracs_Duc wrote: You are no longer a casual player once you get past those practices. Maybe IRL but here on TL "casual" is somewhere between mid and top masters, while anything above gold is "noob"
Yeah, I understand that. Which is why they don't understand what Blizz is talking about when they say that they are making the game more accessible.
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what is this red alert? lol
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On October 08 2015 08:47 Naracs_Duc wrote: I can promise you that this more of a bottom 30%-40% problem and not a "bottom 1%" problem.
I think thats being conservative.
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On October 09 2015 01:25 Naracs_Duc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 00:47 crazedrat wrote: Just learn to use hotkeys. There is no reason for not using them. If you are using hotkeys to build things--you have moved way past casual level gaming commitment.
No? I've never met a single person- regardless of how awful they are- who doesn't use the keyboard at least sometimes.
What the hell do you do with your left hand while your right hand is on the mouse?
Seriously, learn the hotkeys. Every bronze player I know knows plenty of hotkeys.
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as a griddie, i can only tell you the swap of the evo to e in lotv is causing no end of issues, this little change has have be teching more rather than upgrading . . . i
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I am diamond and I am using GRID as well. When I go back to WoL or HotS I always screw up with these changes for a while. (It becomes handy after some games)
Hotkeys are ingrained in muscle memory, so it is a problem if you change them.
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On October 09 2015 00:46 Ve5pa wrote: Switch to Protoss and just click-build Adepts.
Easy game, easy life...
fixed
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On October 09 2015 06:56 Naracs_Duc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 06:45 Ignorant prodigy wrote:On October 09 2015 06:27 AlphaPancake wrote:On October 08 2015 22:42 Tiaraju9 wrote:On October 08 2015 09:11 pwninate wrote: Call me skeptical, but I have a VERY hard time believing you can get to masters without using hotkeys. Zerg players can. How so? Can you imagine making 60 zerglings by clicking the zergling button? It would take forever. I don't know of any zerg players that could do that regularly. Sure, click every once in awhile (perhaps for upgrades), but certainly not for unit production. It is common for players to not use ARMY hotkeys, or to use them dynamically (i.e. make them right before you need them, and constantly change it), though. You only click 30 times I already tap the Z the number of times I need lings instead of just holding down Z. No different with clicks. Most noobs use arrow keys to move the screen (Because of FPS games) and click on what buttons they need to happen (Because hotkeys are hard) You are no longer a casual player once you get past those practices.
Boxer used to move the camera with the arrow keys
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There's no reason for Blizz to do this change, the buttons should be positioned just as they are in hots.
As for everyone discussing "learn hotkeys", don't presume you know why a player is playing the way he is. There can be many reasons for someone playing without hotkeys. To each their own.
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On October 09 2015 17:25 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 06:56 Naracs_Duc wrote:On October 09 2015 06:45 Ignorant prodigy wrote:On October 09 2015 06:27 AlphaPancake wrote:On October 08 2015 22:42 Tiaraju9 wrote:On October 08 2015 09:11 pwninate wrote: Call me skeptical, but I have a VERY hard time believing you can get to masters without using hotkeys. Zerg players can. How so? Can you imagine making 60 zerglings by clicking the zergling button? It would take forever. I don't know of any zerg players that could do that regularly. Sure, click every once in awhile (perhaps for upgrades), but certainly not for unit production. It is common for players to not use ARMY hotkeys, or to use them dynamically (i.e. make them right before you need them, and constantly change it), though. You only click 30 times I already tap the Z the number of times I need lings instead of just holding down Z. No different with clicks. Most noobs use arrow keys to move the screen (Because of FPS games) and click on what buttons they need to happen (Because hotkeys are hard) You are no longer a casual player once you get past those practices. Boxer used to move the camera with the arrow keys I forgot about that. Tha'ts amazing.
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On October 09 2015 11:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 01:25 Naracs_Duc wrote:On October 09 2015 00:47 crazedrat wrote: Just learn to use hotkeys. There is no reason for not using them. If you are using hotkeys to build things--you have moved way past casual level gaming commitment. No? I've never met a single person- regardless of how awful they are- who doesn't use the keyboard at least sometimes. What the hell do you do with your left hand while your right hand is on the mouse? Seriously, learn the hotkeys. Every bronze player I know knows plenty of hotkeys.
I didn't say they didn't use the keyboard.
Arrow Keys to move the screen 1 command group to find army (now 2 command groups in starcraft2: one for all buildings and one for all his army) A to attack move P to patrol the edges of the base (along with a wall of turrets/cannons) Ctrl + Click to select all of a unit to parse out the army etc...
Casuals use the keyboard all the time.
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