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I examined all my replays and it seems that even going for a fast third and saturate it really fast, you are behind workers, between 10 and 12 and supply by 35 and 40
Since that point the effect gets wider and you end up dyinng very fast.
The very reason this happened is the reckless change of the MULE.
The nerf of the MULE is 18 % compared to Hots, while late MULE problem is there to.
Zerg got a 25% - 30% with only 3 larva, this is a severe nerf economy wise and army wise
Chrono was nerfed the hardest, since you can no longer chrono Gates and overall power is down to more then 25 %
As a person who wanted change to macro mechanics, the massacre that is happening here, i would rather revert them all, or at least the zerg one, since they have a big problem now vs bio.
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they should change it from 25 to 22 or 23. Its bit strong I think.
Give it more time. Maybe its just people being used to the 180 mineral mule that was there beforehand. But intial reaction from me is that theres flood of minerals coming in compared to mule before. I can support more than 3 factory off 2.5 base so its refreshing.
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On October 10 2015 12:46 jinjin5000 wrote: they should change it from 25 to 22 or 23. Its bit strong I think.
Give it more time. Maybe its just people being used to the 180 mineral mule that was there beforehand. But intial reaction from me is that theres flood of minerals coming in compared to mule before. I can support more than 3 factory off 2.5 base so its refreshing.
Its beta, i will give it time, but i was just saying that in my opinion bio now is to powerfull, do to economy alone.
And i never liked the nerf MM patch, so this gave me more fuel to post.
They havent said what will happen with Macro Mechanics
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A few streamers I've watched (don't want to put them on the spot by naming them), have also mentioned many times that bio feels unstoppable if the player does it well.
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This is the problem when they treat all the macro mechanics as a single unit. They should be evaluated individually and buffed or nerfed that way instead of as a group.
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On October 10 2015 13:07 Fighter wrote: A few streamers I've watched (don't want to put them on the spot by naming them), have also mentioned many times that bio feels unstoppable if the player does it well.
yea. Theres endless flood of bio units marching across map, If it gets 4 base, its endless stream of units really.
Struggling a bit as mech but they will fix it sooner or later.
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behind on workers or behind on income OP? I don't see how you could possibly be behind in workers. But yes, 3 base saturation for p and z is the similiar to 2 base saturation plus 3rd orbital for terran. because T doesn't have to saturate their 3rd with workers and ops for mules at the third instead, they can throw down rax 4-8 and the bio timings will seem very very strong to p and z during the midgame - late game.
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You're going to have to provide more evidence than your own experience of being behind in workers. Nobody here knows who you are or what league you're in. Is this a trend you've noticed in semi-professional, streamed matches?
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On October 10 2015 15:56 alexanderzero wrote: You're going to have to provide more evidence than your own experience of being behind in workers. Nobody here knows who you are or what league you're in. Is this a trend you've noticed in semi-professional, streamed matches? I believe that it's common sense. If macro boosters were balanced in HotS, and you now nerf them differently in LotV, whereby you nerf the MULE the least, it is logical that Terran will have an economic edge over the other two races and that mineral-heavy Terran compositions, such as Bio, will spiral out of control.
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im not sure i understand, Im a meching terran and dont bio a lot so i dont quite get what your saying? but since mules got nerfed should it be harder for them to dominate? or are you saying that mule nerf isnt enough since the other races got changed aswell, allowing terran hit timings were the other races would "normally" be able to hold?
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On October 10 2015 20:27 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 15:56 alexanderzero wrote: You're going to have to provide more evidence than your own experience of being behind in workers. Nobody here knows who you are or what league you're in. Is this a trend you've noticed in semi-professional, streamed matches? I believe that it's common sense. If macro boosters were balanced in HotS, and you now nerf them differently in LotV, whereby you nerf the MULE the least, it is logical that Terran will have an economic edge over the other two races and that mineral-heavy Terran compositions, such as Bio, will spiral out of control.
this is what I need, the way everyone else was wording things really confused me ty. ok yea i could see that,and it makes a lot of sense i but need more time see and play myself to agree or disagree.
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On October 10 2015 20:31 starslayer wrote: im not sure i understand, Im a meching terran and dont bio a lot so i dont quite get what your saying? but since mules got nerfed should it be harder for them to dominate? or are you saying that mule nerf isnt enough since the other races got changed aswell, allowing terran hit timings were the other races would "normally" be able to hold? That is exactly what I'm saying. Blizzard nerfed the MULE accordingly, but decided with the yesterday's patch to buff it again. Now MULEs are almost as good as in HotS while Inject and Chrono remain drastically nerfed. Terran now simply has too much stuff at any given point in time.
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On October 10 2015 15:56 alexanderzero wrote: You're going to have to provide more evidence than your own experience of being behind in workers. Nobody here knows who you are or what league you're in. Is this a trend you've noticed in semi-professional, streamed matches?
In Masters with friends in GM that have the same problem.
To make it simple, the Terran on 2 base is more ahead in supply and workers, even tho you have a 3 base decently saturated.
Its pretty broken cuz P and Z mechanics are way more nerfed then T
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On October 10 2015 13:23 Valon wrote: This is the problem when they treat all the macro mechanics as a single unit. They should be evaluated individually and buffed or nerfed that way instead of as a group. Quite on the contrary, they have to be changed in connection with the others since they all boost the development of their respective races—not exactly in the same way indeed, but still. If you choose values which introduce too much discrepancy in the rate at which races develop, you will have to adjust the macro booster of the lagging race anyway... Or change many core units to adapt to the new resource ratio; but this would likely create new issues in the other non-mirror match-up.
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Russian Federation66 Posts
On October 10 2015 23:12 Daizer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 15:56 alexanderzero wrote: You're going to have to provide more evidence than your own experience of being behind in workers. Nobody here knows who you are or what league you're in. Is this a trend you've noticed in semi-professional, streamed matches? In Masters with friends in GM that have the same problem. To make it simple, the Terran on 2 base is more ahead in supply and workers, even tho you have a 3 base decently saturated. Its pretty broken cuz P and Z mechanics are way more nerfed then T HOW can be terran ahead in workers while you play 3vs2? Even with 3rd oc. Build time of orbital is 2-worker build time, so it slow terran for 2 workers. If u are behind in worker count - it means you lost them or didnt build them in time.
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On October 11 2015 01:26 i_am_Nite wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 23:12 Daizer wrote:On October 10 2015 15:56 alexanderzero wrote: You're going to have to provide more evidence than your own experience of being behind in workers. Nobody here knows who you are or what league you're in. Is this a trend you've noticed in semi-professional, streamed matches? In Masters with friends in GM that have the same problem. To make it simple, the Terran on 2 base is more ahead in supply and workers, even tho you have a 3 base decently saturated. Its pretty broken cuz P and Z mechanics are way more nerfed then T HOW can be terran ahead in workers while you play 3vs2? Even with 3rd oc. Build time of orbital is 2-worker build time, so it slow terran for 2 workers. If u are behind in worker count - it means you lost them or didnt build them in time.
Its possible because the new patch buffed the MULE, while Zerg has 3 larva and Protoss nerfed chrono.
To be precise its a 7% to 12% more efficiently then Zerg and Protoss
And that is huge.
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Does anyone know why they buffed the MULE? I don't think Terran/Bio was struggling at all last patch.
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On October 10 2015 12:05 Daizer wrote: I examined all my replays and it seems that even going for a fast third and saturate it really fast, you are behind workers, between 10 and 12 and supply by 35 and 40
Since that point the effect gets wider and you end up dyinng very fast.
The very reason this happened is the reckless change of the MULE.
The nerf of the MULE is 18 % compared to Hots, while late MULE problem is there to.
Zerg got a 25% - 30% with only 3 larva, this is a severe nerf economy wise and army wise
Chrono was nerfed the hardest, since you can no longer chrono Gates and overall power is down to more then 25 %
As a person who wanted change to macro mechanics, the massacre that is happening here, i would rather revert them all, or at least the zerg one, since they have a big problem now vs bio.
Theoretically yes, but that's a lot less on the field.. Protoss with this new chrono i by far the race more harmed (tech switches, build times, macro, etc, etc..
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On October 11 2015 03:33 StarscreamG1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 12:05 Daizer wrote: I examined all my replays and it seems that even going for a fast third and saturate it really fast, you are behind workers, between 10 and 12 and supply by 35 and 40
Since that point the effect gets wider and you end up dyinng very fast.
The very reason this happened is the reckless change of the MULE.
The nerf of the MULE is 18 % compared to Hots, while late MULE problem is there to.
Zerg got a 25% - 30% with only 3 larva, this is a severe nerf economy wise and army wise
Chrono was nerfed the hardest, since you can no longer chrono Gates and overall power is down to more then 25 %
As a person who wanted change to macro mechanics, the massacre that is happening here, i would rather revert them all, or at least the zerg one, since they have a big problem now vs bio.
Theoretically yes, but that's a lot less on the field.. Protoss with this new chrono i by far the race more harmed (tech switches, build times, macro, etc, etc..
Agreed.
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Bio liberator made me quit SC2. I kept waiting for a patch that would balance it, but instead they made it even stronger. I feel like Zerg only gets attention when it's winning too much.
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