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Hey guys,
I am a diamond league zerg and I decided to try out the "leave league" button just for fun and to see what happens yesterday. If I remember correctly, I did this once in HotS and it just gave me one or two new placement matches and I ended up in the same league as before.
Let me say that my mmr is just diamond, not high diamond, definitely not masters and lol, of course not grandmaster.
That is what happened on my EU LotV account after using the button: I got 5 placement matches, which was a surprise itself. But then something hilarious happened. The first two games were against GM (!) players and the next three against very top masters players. Somehow I managed to beat on master player and got placed in platinum. I thought: "phew, thank god I am back where I belong" but no no! Somehow it screwed my MMR in such a way, that I only play against master players now. I am currently sitting at 1-13.
Can someone explain? Just be cautious guys. I don't know if that was a bug or can be explained in any other way but it definitely screwed me over big time.
Well good luck and have fun laddering.
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I'd say you should just play more so your MMR will set and league shouldn't have anything to do with your MMR.
You could just worker rush but I recommend testing waters in big boy zone. Go really greedy or really aggro. People play money to get so much better prac partners so I suggest you take most out of it before your MMR decreases enough.
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It depends on what you were at start of season. In the past you had a previous record so 1 placement was needed. Since it's a new ladder you got the 5 placements. Same thing would happen if you took a season off, placed and left. Can't say about your opponents. Could just be your MMR was peaking and you're getting unlucky with opponents that just dropped some rating...
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I didn't post cause I wanted to brag about MMR or something (not that you are saying that!). But my MMR definitely was not even close to masters. I just made the post to make ppl aware of the fact that the might be something a bit wrong.
And yes, I try my best vs all the guys and try to learn as much as I can but it is just an up hill battle.
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the exact same thing happened to me. It seems diamond is bugged aswell as I see extreme gaps between rank 100 europe diamond and rank 1 ones ( Masters who don't deserve their spots are holding spots from the stronger players in diamond )
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The exact same thing happened to me. I even played against liquid tlo lol. Ater 20 or so games the MMR normalizes.
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Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
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On December 01 2015 23:33 Ryndika wrote:
You could just worker rush but I recommend testing waters in big boy zone. Go really greedy or really aggro. People play money to get so much better prac partners so I suggest you take most out of it before your MMR decreases enough. That's true. I hope they don't fix it so I just need to click leave league to play vs strong opponents.
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Despite the fact I didnt leave my league, I'd got strange mmr issues yesterday too, my account is top master and I played against 4 or 5 bronze guys in a row (and I mean real bronze player at 20 apm), then I decided to stop.
It's the first time I saw this kind of behaviour.
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This is reproduceable btw. I did it again and only master opponents. I will actually keep doing this since it's super good practice as someone above mentioned.
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On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit?
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United States12180 Posts
On December 01 2015 22:52 JazVM wrote: Hey guys,
I am a diamond league zerg and I decided to try out the "leave league" button just for fun and to see what happens yesterday. If I remember correctly, I did this once in HotS and it just gave me one or two new placement matches and I ended up in the same league as before.
Let me say that my mmr is just diamond, not high diamond, definitely not masters and lol, of course not grandmaster.
That is what happened on my EU LotV account after using the button: I got 5 placement matches, which was a surprise itself. But then something hilarious happened. The first two games were against GM (!) players and the next three against very top masters players. Somehow I managed to beat on master player and got placed in platinum. I thought: "phew, thank god I am back where I belong" but no no! Somehow it screwed my MMR in such a way, that I only play against master players now. I am currently sitting at 1-13.
Can someone explain? Just be cautious guys. I don't know if that was a bug or can be explained in any other way but it definitely screwed me over big time.
Well good luck and have fun laddering.
While that is odd, rating calibration does last for 25 games, and your search range is wider than normal during that time. The Platinum-but-playing-Masters thing makes more sense in the context of initial placement being more conservative, so you could read this as "actually Diamond but with a Platinum badge" until you hit 25 games. Master isn't that far in terms of rating from Diamond.
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United States12180 Posts
On December 01 2015 22:52 JazVM wrote: Hey guys,
I am a diamond league zerg and I decided to try out the "leave league" button just for fun and to see what happens yesterday. If I remember correctly, I did this once in HotS and it just gave me one or two new placement matches and I ended up in the same league as before.
Let me say that my mmr is just diamond, not high diamond, definitely not masters and lol, of course not grandmaster.
That is what happened on my EU LotV account after using the button: I got 5 placement matches, which was a surprise itself. But then something hilarious happened. The first two games were against GM (!) players and the next three against very top masters players. Somehow I managed to beat on master player and got placed in platinum. I thought: "phew, thank god I am back where I belong" but no no! Somehow it screwed my MMR in such a way, that I only play against master players now. I am currently sitting at 1-13.
Can someone explain? Just be cautious guys. I don't know if that was a bug or can be explained in any other way but it definitely screwed me over big time.
Well good luck and have fun laddering.
While that is odd, rating calibration does last for 25 games, and your search range is wider than normal during that time. The Platinum-but-playing-Masters thing makes more sense in the context of initial placement being more conservative, so you could read this as "actually Diamond but with a Platinum badge" until you hit 25 games. Master isn't that far in terms of rating from Diamond.
On December 02 2015 04:18 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit?
My guess is because people in placement matches tend to play against other placement match people. If you had two players with really high MMRs leaving league and queuing at the same time, they would only play against each other because they're both in Placement.
This is an interesting experiment. I think the weird thing in JazVM's case is that he's actually losing quite a bit to these Master players, yet he's still being matched against them. I'd be interested to see what's going on under the hood that makes that happen.
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On December 02 2015 04:18 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit?
It is easier to hide barcodes if your barcode is not in a league. There are barcodes that are way above top GM because they are always leaving their leagues.
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On December 02 2015 05:42 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 04:18 opisska wrote:On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit? It is easier to hide barcodes if your barcode is not in a league. There are barcodes that are way above top GM because they are always leaving their leagues.
You progamers are a weird bunch
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On December 02 2015 06:02 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 05:42 FireCake wrote:On December 02 2015 04:18 opisska wrote:On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit? It is easier to hide barcodes if your barcode is not in a league. There are barcodes that are way above top GM because they are always leaving their leagues. You progamers are a weird bunch
When you think about it it's not that weird. It's sad that the league system is useless and has no meaning.
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United States12180 Posts
On December 02 2015 06:13 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 06:02 opisska wrote:On December 02 2015 05:42 FireCake wrote:On December 02 2015 04:18 opisska wrote:On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit? It is easier to hide barcodes if your barcode is not in a league. There are barcodes that are way above top GM because they are always leaving their leagues. You progamers are a weird bunch When you think about it it's not that weird. It's sad that the league system is useless and has no meaning.
To be fair, if players are going this far to protect their identities in multiplayer, it won't matter what the ladder looks like because they wouldn't be participating in it anyway.
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On December 02 2015 07:35 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 06:13 FireCake wrote:On December 02 2015 06:02 opisska wrote:On December 02 2015 05:42 FireCake wrote:On December 02 2015 04:18 opisska wrote:On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit? It is easier to hide barcodes if your barcode is not in a league. There are barcodes that are way above top GM because they are always leaving their leagues. You progamers are a weird bunch When you think about it it's not that weird. It's sad that the league system is useless and has no meaning. To be fair, if players are going this far to protect their identities in multiplayer, it won't matter what the ladder looks like because they wouldn't be participating in it anyway. From a pro-gamer point of view, "meaning" is most likely tied to some monetary incentive - either direct cash prize or indirectly though points towards seeding.
For the rest of us, ladder is not a useless system. It helps visualize our skill level relative to our peers.
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I think that the gain from hiding your account is not really that big, but when the gain from not hiding it is actually zero, then it kinda makes sense. On the other hand, while the ladder does not "pay off" directly, wouldn't being top GM on a named account be good for one's image, getting sponsors etc.? But then maybe someone as good and well-known as Firecake doesn't really need that too much, he gets enough exposure through just doing well in tournaments.
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I have the same issue ! I'm usually high plat , I won my first 4 placement against silv/gold/gold/plat, and lost to a diamond. -> I was placed in gold, BUT the ladder made me play against another diamond again. I'm OK with the ladder putting me in gold, since i've stopped for a fiew season, it make sense with the decrease mmr system ( it's still there right? ) I'm also OK with playing againt diamond (as a plat level player ) , but it's odd to put me in gold to make me play againt diamond i feel.
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On December 02 2015 05:42 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 04:18 opisska wrote:On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit? It is easier to hide barcodes if your barcode is not in a league. There are barcodes that are way above top GM because they are always leaving their leagues.
Wouldn't it make more sense to just play unranked?
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seems like the most likely explanation based on what firecake said is that the majority of people do their placements at or near the beginning of the season, so if you leave league in the middle of a season it favors matching you against other players who are doing placement, which are most likely pros/gms doing it to hide their accounts?
might be more of a social oddity than a bug
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On December 03 2015 01:02 LordOfDabu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 05:42 FireCake wrote:On December 02 2015 04:18 opisska wrote:On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit? It is easier to hide barcodes if your barcode is not in a league. There are barcodes that are way above top GM because they are always leaving their leagues. Wouldn't it make more sense to just play unranked?
No because the matchmaking for unranked play is... very weird, i keep being matched with players from gold/plat leagues.
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On December 03 2015 02:29 brickrd wrote: seems like the most likely explanation based on what firecake said is that the majority of people do their placements at or near the beginning of the season, so if you leave league in the middle of a season it favors matching you against other players who are doing placement, which are most likely pros/gms doing it to hide their accounts?
might be more of a social oddity than a bug
Your MMR stays the same when you leave your league. This button is indeed useless for the ladder system but it allows people who believe they are not in the league of their level to have the feeling they will be placed in the right league after new placement matches. For pros it allows to hide our barcodes ^^
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On December 03 2015 03:08 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 01:02 LordOfDabu wrote:On December 02 2015 05:42 FireCake wrote:On December 02 2015 04:18 opisska wrote:On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit? It is easier to hide barcodes if your barcode is not in a league. There are barcodes that are way above top GM because they are always leaving their leagues. Wouldn't it make more sense to just play unranked? No because the matchmaking for unranked play is... very weird, i keep being matched with players from gold/plat leagues.
It's almost random. I play unranked as random to just fuck around, and even though I've won maybe 2 games (out of 30), I still match masters/gms in unranked.
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Just play more games, "certainty" is a variable which sits side by side with MMR and affects who you play and how quickly you swing between harder and weaker opponents.
I was also stuck in plat playing masters players for a while but after 20 or so games i got back to diamond and am now playing diamonds 90% of the time.
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United States12180 Posts
On December 03 2015 04:30 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 03:08 FireCake wrote:On December 03 2015 01:02 LordOfDabu wrote:On December 02 2015 05:42 FireCake wrote:On December 02 2015 04:18 opisska wrote:On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit? It is easier to hide barcodes if your barcode is not in a league. There are barcodes that are way above top GM because they are always leaving their leagues. Wouldn't it make more sense to just play unranked? No because the matchmaking for unranked play is... very weird, i keep being matched with players from gold/plat leagues. It's almost random. I play unranked as random to just fuck around, and even though I've won maybe 2 games (out of 30), I still match masters/gms in unranked.
Two things to support this:
1. Since unranked and ranked MMRs are separate, but seed each other, it matters when you play your first Unranked match. If that's the first match you ever play, then you go on to play Ranked and get GM, your Unranked MMR will be much lower. If you play your first Unranked match after you get to GM, you'll have rating parity.
2. Unranked and Ranked player pools are separated at the top of the ladder, probably Master+ if I had to guess. That could explain why it feels more random when you search Unranked if your Unranked MMR is very high, because it has to find other very-high-MMR players who are queued for Unranked.
I don't know if this is directly related to your guys' situations or not, but hopefully I could add some context.
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so i clicked leave league again and this time I keep getting matched against players of my skill level but somehing else weird happened. Despite being master league before and only facing master league players with 50 % winrate I got placed in platinum. very weird.
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It seems like the cases of people being placed below their league make sense if we remember that they're still, I think, not having demotions during seasons. That means they have strong incentive to play you lower rather than higher, because they can't fix you being too high but can fix you being too low.
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United States12180 Posts
On December 03 2015 06:29 InvictusRage wrote: It seems like the cases of people being placed below their league make sense if we remember that they're still, I think, not having demotions during seasons. That means they have strong incentive to play you lower rather than higher, because they can't fix you being too high but can fix you being too low.
Correct. Initial placement for new players (i.e., 5 placements) is about a full league below your actual rating to protect against that exact thing.
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Does anyone know if the threshold for masters (2%) is reached, can you still get in or do you have to wait for next season?
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On December 04 2015 06:55 JazVM wrote: Does anyone know if the threshold for masters (2%) is reached, can you still get in or do you have to wait for next season?
I got placed in a new masters division 3 days ago, when I joined there were 5 people in the division and it slowly filled up, so you can still get promoted to masters.
Also I'd like to say that when I did my initial 5 placement matches for lotv, it placed me in silver, until you play 25 games you will likely be far under the league you're supposed to be in.(I got diamond on my 25th game)
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United States12180 Posts
On December 04 2015 06:55 JazVM wrote: Does anyone know if the threshold for masters (2%) is reached, can you still get in or do you have to wait for next season?
No such thing.
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On December 03 2015 06:19 Charoisaur wrote: so i clicked leave league again and this time I keep getting matched against players of my skill level but somehing else weird happened. Despite being master league before and only facing master league players with 50 % winrate I got placed in platinum. very weird.
Pretty sure the highest it will place you from placement matches is Platinum, regardless of MMR.
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There's not a cap on players in a given league; league boundaries are set by a hidden MMR and if you exceed it you get promoted regardless of the percentage of players in the league.
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Question, if you leave your league does your W/L reset as well or after your placements does your W/L go back to how it was? This is mere curiosity as I have never left a league before.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On December 03 2015 05:58 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 04:30 InfCereal wrote:On December 03 2015 03:08 FireCake wrote:On December 03 2015 01:02 LordOfDabu wrote:On December 02 2015 05:42 FireCake wrote:On December 02 2015 04:18 opisska wrote:On December 02 2015 01:29 FireCake wrote: Like most pros i always leave league and i have no trouble when i do it. I play the exact same people.
Would you care to elaborate on that? Why do most pros "always leave league"? What is the benefit? It is easier to hide barcodes if your barcode is not in a league. There are barcodes that are way above top GM because they are always leaving their leagues. Wouldn't it make more sense to just play unranked? No because the matchmaking for unranked play is... very weird, i keep being matched with players from gold/plat leagues. It's almost random. I play unranked as random to just fuck around, and even though I've won maybe 2 games (out of 30), I still match masters/gms in unranked. Two things to support this: 1. Since unranked and ranked MMRs are separate, but seed each other, it matters when you play your first Unranked match. If that's the first match you ever play, then you go on to play Ranked and get GM, your Unranked MMR will be much lower. If you play your first Unranked match after you get to GM, you'll have rating parity. 2. Unranked and Ranked player pools are separated at the top of the ladder, probably Master+ if I had to guess. That could explain why it feels more random when you search Unranked if your Unranked MMR is very high, because it has to find other very-high-MMR players who are queued for Unranked. I don't know if this is directly related to your guys' situations or not, but hopefully I could add some context. Unranked has wider search range. I(hots diamond) played vs gold - GM range. I was 2 seasons in unranked and played hundreds of games, the system had enough data I honestly didn't care as I left every game with opponent above diamond so I was winning most of the time
Edit> When I switched to ranked I play diamond/master most of the time. I played against solid golds in unranked(opponents had hundreds of games in the season in gold, playing ranked, there was no chance for an error )
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On December 04 2015 09:18 blade55555 wrote: Question, if you leave your league does your W/L reset as well or after your placements does your W/L go back to how it was? This is mere curiosity as I have never left a league before. It resets your W/L on the ladder screen, but if you go the profile screen and hover over your league you can see the real W/L for the season.
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I have similar problem. 5games (vs bronze, gold, plat plat plat) won all, got placed into plat. then i decided to "leave league" and suddenly all my matches are vs top masters. i did same thing for 2v2//3v3//4v4 and observations are similar. first 5 placement games vs low//mid rank people (waiting for game ~1min) after reset its mostly dia//master (5 min waiting for 3v3//4v4).
it is clearly some sort of bug, or it could be related to "restoring" mmr before inactivity period. I played this game a lot in 2010--2011 and was masters//high masters in all leagues.
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Hit leave league again and faced 3 gms in a row. Quite funny
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It seems like "leave league" doesn't actually give you GM MMR since actual GMs are winning 1-2 points and losing 20+ points when they face the people doing the leave league thing.
Is there more to matchmaking than MMR or is the MMR used for points separate from the MMR used for matchmaking?
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Sorry to unearth this topic but I have trouble with ladder matchmaking, and I want to know if I am the only one.
I am Plat 3.4K MMR and I decide to create a new account because I think with 2 accounts I will be able to decrease my ladder anxiety and erase my bad habits in my gameplay in a lower league.
I play my 5 placement matches: Silver/Plat/Plat/Plat/Diams. I won the first, lost the next two, I cheese and win vs the last Plat, and I leave vs Diams. I am dropped in Silver 2 with 3.3K MMR
Can someone explain me this ?
First game...Diams, then only Plat players. Ofc All of them try to cheese me so I am able to win 1 or 2 game.
After some games of hard fighting, I am in gold. First game, unranked guy with 3.9K MMR.
I play sc2 since 2012, I still a scrub because of lack of time to increase my level, no problem with that, but here and now I wonder for a gentle new player who just buy the game and want to start the ladder to learn to play.
Tell me that he will not face plats or diams right away. If it is the case I am worried about sc2 future
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United States12180 Posts
On November 08 2017 06:48 Sound1 wrote:Sorry to unearth this topic but I have trouble with ladder matchmaking, and I want to know if I am the only one. I am Plat 3.4K MMR and I decide to create a new account because I think with 2 accounts I will be able to decrease my ladder anxiety and erase my bad habits in my gameplay in a lower league. I play my 5 placement matches: Silver/Plat/Plat/Plat/Diams. I won the first, lost the next two, I cheese and win vs the last Plat, and I leave vs Diams. I am dropped in Silver 2 with 3.3K MMR Can someone explain me this ? First game...Diams, then only Plat players. Ofc All of them try to cheese me so I am able to win 1 or 2 game. After some games of hard fighting, I am in gold. First game, unranked guy with 3.9K MMR. I play sc2 since 2012, I still a scrub because of lack of time to increase my level, no problem with that, but here and now I wonder for a gentle new player who just buy the game and want to start the ladder to learn to play. Tell me that he will not face plats or diams right away. If it is the case I am worried about sc2 future
It's called "provisional MMR" where your league placement is intentionally lower than your MMR, and it lasts for about 25 games. Don't put too much emphasis in your league icon especially in matches immediately following placement. You're a 3.3K MMR player playing against other ~3.3ishK MMR players. After about 25 games, if you're still 3.3K MMR, your league icon will reflect that (generally that will mean a promotion by about a full league).
The reason for the conservative estimate is that it thinks you are 3.3K based on what it knows, which is not much after only 5 matches. If you lost a bunch of games and fell down to 2.8K, then your initial placement into Silver would have turned out to be accurate. It's a form of hedging bets based on incomplete information.
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