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On February 20 2012 00:26 skrzmark wrote: Yo I think wriggles pd ie last whisper is a good build noc isnt meant to be tanky I think. Hell throw in wits end. All you need after your damage items is a guardians angel replace wriggles with bloodthrister. Nocturne has a banshee's veil effect and a passive that gives him massive lifesteal, both of which go very well with tank items. Yes, you can build him assassin/glass cannon but being tanky is a good thing on junglers in the meta right now.
Basically if you're building him full AD you have to win the game before they start teamfighting.
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can someone give a new build for this champ, an updated one? hes free this week and id like to try him out.
whats the best build for him right now?
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clothes + 5 into wriggles --> atmas --> fh/bv/fon (depends on their lu) --> bt --> lw I think. But I jungle him and I don't know if you can solo top him unless against nasus or Irelia :D
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21/0/9 and 21/9 both work well on him, and there are lot of situational item builds for him. If you've never played him I'd recommend a standard jungle page (AS+armor pen and AD+armor pen both work) and go for wriggle and tanky, usually some combination of aegis/phage(mallet)/warmog based on farm. You will be diving into the enemy team, and you get huge steroids from your Q and W, so it's usually safe to build tanky.
EDIT: You can't do the build above because you'll have no health and instantly die. The build I most commonly use is wriggle/hog/phage/atma with merc somewhere in there, but again it will change based on the game. The new hexdrinker item looks nice too. But Banshee Veil is a terrible item on him with his W, and he's not the best choice either for FH (Randuins is better).
If you get fed there's almost no reason not to build Frozen Mallet, Warmog, or Ghostblade.
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If you're going to play a passive opening to just quick farm, open with vamp scepter. If the enemy has a strong counter jungler, then consider opening with cloth5. If you think you might be able to pull off a lvl 2 gank for whatever reason, then consider opening with boots3.
The most standard opening I see on most high level Nocturne players is without question, wriggles -> hog. After that it diverges. TOO used to go wriggles -> hog -> avarice which SV also started to adapt to some extent after the jungle changes, although I'm starting to see avarice less and less. It's very common to see brutalize though, and if you have the gold to buy a brutalizer instead of an avarice I would always buy the brutalizer instead. Ghostblade is one of the best items on Nocturne because he makes use of every single aspect of it completely. I would consider ghostblade as a core item on Nocturne. Everything after that is situational. Atmogs was popular on Nocturne and this was how SV used to build Nocturne, but that has fallen off completely both due to the jungle changes and the diminishing popularity of atmog in general. Atmas is good though, and all other items should be situational defensive items.
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I don't build him as an initiatior which he isnt, I build him as an assassin with mr/armor so he can 1v1 anyone and still be able to jump onto ad carry/ap and not die instantly. Concerning banshee's veil, the passive is too good to be left. It should be a necessary item on every champ. But yeah ghostblade is a must have, I forgot about it. Mea culpa :D
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Banshee's veil is pretty meh, especially on melee champs. Your shield gets knocked out by the most mundane things all the time because of how easy it is for the enemy team to waste it. Not to mention it's expensive as all hell. A lot of my games I just by a negatron and leave it there because I'd rather be using my gold on more useful expenses. When I do upgrade it it's because the enemy team has a lot of CC and I need to get a QSS. Even if the enemy team is mostly AP with near no CC I often choose to just buy another negatron instead...
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My point is that with the build i listed (wriggle/hog/phage -> some order FM/atma/MR item, with possibly an aegis/chain vest/negatron before phage) you have MUCH more survivability, kill potential, and chasing power than some random mix of banshee/FH/FoN with no hp.
Also, brutalizer/ghostblade is definitely very good on him, but I would hold off using those until you get a feel for Nocturne's tankiness before going that style. As nocturne you need to stick to their highest threat target, and if if you can't ult in without instantly dying then you're a liability to the team.
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How do people feel about Zeke's Herald on Nocturne? He makes excellent use of all of the stats, and the aura is very useful if you have 2 other AD champs on the team. I see it as being a potential 5th or 6th item.
Here's my item build:
Wriggles -> boots -> Avarice Blade -> Merc Treads/Ninja Tabi -> Wit's End -> Frozen Mallet/Warmog's (Giants Belt first) -> Youmuu's Ghostblade -> situational 6th item (possible choices are BV, QSS, Atma's, Zeke's Herald, GA, or a heavy dmg item like Bloodthirster/Last Whisper/Infinity Edge/Black Cleaver)
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I've been playing a fair bit of nocturne as he's on a free and I'm really enjoying him. One thing I'm really torn between is wit's vs phage -> mallet after wriggle/boots2. I also don't get hog although I really should try it I guess. Wit's is kinda good for the damage and stuff and makes you actually quite dangerous in a fight but without additional health of phage I just feel too squishy and quite reluctant to dive their towers with ult. Might try wriggle boots hog wits and report back tonight.
@ above: not sure about zeke's because personally I hardly ever have games last past fromat's, at which point I feel the need to build even tankier to survive the opposing team's burst. Also your ghostblade is really quite late, by the time you get it you'd get much more money's worth out of atma's. I guess it is a matter of preference.
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what I like to do on him is open vamp scepter and jungle with arpen reds and just be on position to ult a lane every time my ult is about to come up. getting wriggles/boots/brutalizer/mercs in that order by lvl 11 you can just dive a lane and come out with a kill every time if your laning partner isnt retarded. if i'm fed I go straight for blood thirster, if i'm not i go for phage then blood thirster. I like the immediate burst you get on his ult + q. I usually don't finish ghostblade until the lategame. and I feel the lifesteal is enough to keep me alive as a duelist since the fear lets you get a couple free hits on your target if they attack you and u just rape them if they try to run away. Essentially just dive in, get a kill and get out. If your ult isn't up I like doing flash -> W E Q / W -> flash -> E Q
I feel like it has a lot of potential, and combined with a mid like kassadin/twisted faith its just rape.
Here's a game with a kassadin mid. I did get a lot of lane farm this game, though.
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Ugh Youmous never liked that item unless im playing master yi.
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On March 25 2012 22:23 greggy wrote: I've been playing a fair bit of nocturne as he's on a free and I'm really enjoying him. One thing I'm really torn between is wit's vs phage -> mallet after wriggle/boots2. I also don't get hog although I really should try it I guess. Wit's is kinda good for the damage and stuff and makes you actually quite dangerous in a fight but without additional health of phage I just feel too squishy and quite reluctant to dive their towers with ult. Might try wriggle boots hog wits and report back tonight.
@ above: not sure about zeke's because personally I hardly ever have games last past fromat's, at which point I feel the need to build even tankier to survive the opposing team's burst. Also your ghostblade is really quite late, by the time you get it you'd get much more money's worth out of atma's. I guess it is a matter of preference.
yeah Youmuu's is so good I may change it and make it earlier.
I like Avarice Blade instead of HoG, they both give gp10 but HoG delays Youmuu's while Avarice doesn't; and I consider Youmuu's core to Nocturne, unlike Randuin's.
Wit's is amazing, and has everything Nocturne needs:
-attack speed, Nocturne's primary stat -magic resist, to help him tank, plus extra MR when he's diving someone, which he does all the time -bonus damage per hit to clear jungle/minions faster
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wits is good if you're vs double AP (kind of rare now) (wriggles -> wits -> phage)
phage is the best item overall (after wriggles on noc) because of the extra health and slow (allows you to initiate and catch someone with your ult) (wriggles -> phage)
go brutalizer if you're fed early on (and are able to pick up your wriggles very fast) and lane phase looks to go on forever (more ganks with that cdr) but i wouldn't upgrade to ghostblade *not worth it most of the time (wriggles -> brut -> phage)
i feel like hog is kinda wasted since phage gives you something (a slow) that is incredibly useful to nocturne ganks (in addition to the +health)
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How is hog wasted? The whole point is to jump on a squishy and kill them and if you are in their whole team Randuins is awesome.
Glass cannon Nocturne sucks. Wriggles/Wits/Fratmas/some other MR I like the new item a lot, and BT or LW
Ghost blade is bleh, PD is meh. I dont even like getting Brutalizer early, if I am wicked fed I would rather get tankier before the opposing teams damage gets too high and go Warmogs instead of Mallet or something. Nocturne is NOT an assassin. He has no way out of fights, if he isnt tanky he will just get blown up in 2 seconds.
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noct is my most played champ with a 75%winrate and i feel tanky is best for him his abilitys give him attack speed and a bv shield
i go 21/9/0 i open coth armor and 5 pots i then get boots and a long sword my first back my next back is wriggles for boots merc or ninja depending on the other chaamps in the game.i then go phage into warmogs then frozen mallet then a atmas then a bt.
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On March 26 2012 05:24 Bladeorade wrote: Nocturne is NOT an assassin.
disagree here, noct is a textbook assasin. His Q allows for chasing, he has a fear ability, and his ultimate is made for diving.
You have to build noct like an assasin, or else you won't be taking advantage of his strengths. That of course doesn't mean glass cannon, he needs tank items to survive when he ults.
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Wut. He does his damage through sustained auto attacking. He is not an assassin. If you try to build him like an assassin you will be utterly useless in the lategame. We've already gone through this already in this thread and I really don't want to repeat what's already been said.
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All his skillset screams for it. Don't forget that you can ignore their melee with your ult and jump on their squishies. It's a different playstyle but totally valid imo.
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