Once I understood the limitations of his kit I have had absolutely no problem stomping every malzahar I have faced. I think he probably has the worst skillset in the game currently.
[Champion] Malzahar - Page 5
Forum Index > LoL Strategy |
sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Once I understood the limitations of his kit I have had absolutely no problem stomping every malzahar I have faced. I think he probably has the worst skillset in the game currently. | ||
TigerKarl
1757 Posts
On February 11 2013 19:49 sob3k wrote: I have to agree with canada, I absolutely love underplayed mids, and I gave him so many chances. My conclusion is that his kit is just absolutely abysmal. There is exactly one situation in which he does excellently: surprising a single enemy from a bush. In a teamfight or if anyone else is around to disable him, his kit has zero synergy, terrible range, no mobility. and no damage if the opponent isn't held in it by his ult. You can play him successfully, but you would do better with another champion with half the effort and twice the opportunity to make plays. Once I understood the limitations of his kit I have had absolutely no problem stomping every malzahar I have faced. I think he probably has the worst skillset in the game currently. absurdly wrong | ||
sob3k
United States7572 Posts
| ||
h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
| ||
zer0das
United States8519 Posts
He has a 3 second silence on a shorter cooldown than Cho's scream, higher base damage, and a higher AP ratio. 9 second cooldown vs Cho's 13 second cooldown. To put this in perspective, with max CDR and 500 AP (not super uncommon), you're throwing out a call to the void every 5.4 seconds while doing 700 magic damage in a massive AOE. Malefic visions does a similar amount of damage to a single target and you get it every 4.2 seconds with 40% CDR. And with the same stats as the above, null zone does 13% of a champion's health as magic damage every tick (up to 65% health). You win fights as Malzahar by poking them with your q like crazy, using E if anyone decides to get close to you (slowing them with your Rylai's), and if someone gets horridly out of position so the rest of his team can't punish you, you drop null zone on him and ult him, and he's almost guaranteed to be dead. It's not uncommon to chunk an entire team from a massive distance with call of the void alone, especially in siege situations. You can keep your silence up on someone about as often as they're unsilenced, if you're really good. Honestly, I'd rank him up there with Karthus in terms of AOE damage- the sheer damage output is very similar, Malzahar's is just a lot harder to use properly because he has to stay alive and using them is much more difficult than the average spell. It sounds like the two of you expect to ult at the start of a teamfight and just roll people. That's not how it works- its akin to Warwick- lategame if you initiate a 5v5 teamfight by ulting the enemy ADC, you're an idiot and you're going to die without getting anything accomplished (unless he's horribly, horribly out of position). You have to wait for the fight to develop and then use it in the middle of it while abusing your range and ability to peel people with Rylai's. Also, if I haven't said the word Rylai's enough, it's pretty much mandatory. I see so many Malzahar's getting a Rod of Ages, but the slow from Rylai's is absolutely crucial to succeeding with Malz. If you haven't tried Malz with Rylai's, you are making things exceedingly difficult for yourself. | ||
obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
| ||
sob3k
United States7572 Posts
You are right though, he just sits around and throws out these Q's. The thing about it though is that even if you manage to null ult someone, the damage really isn't that spectacular for how crippled you are in every other aspect. As malz if you get jumped on you just roll over and die, there is nothing you can do except put a DOT on them. He's constantly in danger of getting jumped because of his terrible effective range. For ult damage Xerath does extremely comparable if not significantly more damage against anyone not with 6 warmogs and no MR. Plus he has 1300 range, more aoe, and some hard Cc if anyone does get to him, AND his ult is on a cd that is like 40 seconds less, and you don't lose 100% of your damage in one stun. He just outclasses malz massively in every respect. Also he can actually do his thing in just about any situation, instead of waiting for the stars to align and then stunning himself at melee range. Like you said, you cant just start off a teamfight with ult, you have to sit wayyy back and Q and hope someone gets wayyy out of position. You can't even use your E really as if someone is that close you are probably dead. So even in an ideal teamfight where you land like 2 perfect Q's his overall damage output is just terrible compared to an actually decent mid like Ahri or Karthus or Xerath or Zyra or Ryze or anyone who can actually use their full spell rotation. And his single target is terrible because 90% of the time he doesn't even get to pick who he ults. He's lucky if he gets an opportunity to ult at all. EDIT: QSS has nothing to do with his weakness, his ult is terrible all by itself. | ||
h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
The 15% Rylais slow is ok, but not that many champions really care about it that much. In a game with no gapclosers, he would be better. In 1v1 situations where he gets to set up his combo, he does well. Basically, he is good when people let him, as soon as you get jumped as Malzahar, you die. He just has too many variables that need to go right for him. | ||
barbsq
United States5348 Posts
| ||
Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
also, malz isn't an AP assassin. stop playing him like one. you're not going to hit whoever you want. you ARE however, going to be able to kill anyone, no matter how tanky they are. so use ult to peel for your ADC then help clean up because their front line vaporized. as always, his strongest suit is his stupid pushing and the amount of passive pressure he can put just by e>q a wave and then not being anywhere near it while it farms itself. | ||
sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On February 12 2013 03:21 Kaneh wrote: its like... everyone jizzing over AD malz and how much troll damage his voidlings can do. then everyone forgets AP malz has them as well. also, malz isn't an AP assassin. stop playing him like one. you're not going to hit whoever you want. you ARE however, going to be able to kill anyone, no matter how tanky they are. so use ult to peel for your ADC then help clean up because their front line vaporized. as always, his strongest suit is his stupid pushing and the amount of passive pressure he can put just by e>q a wave and then not being anywhere near it while it farms itself. His voidlings get his AD and Arpen, so AP malz voidlings are pussies compared to AD. also he totally cant kill anyone no matter how tanky | ||
TigerKarl
1757 Posts
edit: just to give a reference: tricking your opponent into building QSS is like tricking your opponent into building hydras in WoL PvZ. Now you're fucked. | ||
h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On February 12 2013 04:53 TigerKarl wrote: Actually i'm fine with everyone falsely badmouthing my favourite champion. That way nobody knows how much of a badass, utility caster and generally dramatically underrated champion he is, while i keep my 85% ranked win ratio up. Now insult me. edit: just to give a reference: tricking your opponent into building QSS is like tricking your opponent into building hydras in WoL PvZ. Now you're fucked. You seem very offended at people criticizing Malzahar. No one is bad mouthing him, he just doesn't seem to be up to par with other champions, and while zer0das does raise some points in his favor, you bring nothing to the discussion. I don't really care about Malzahar, as I didn't enjoy playing him and find him kinda annoying to lane against, but he needs some buffs imo. Maybe make him able to move while ulting, but keep the tether range as it is. That would also make it possible to ignite people without accidentally canceling the ult. | ||
Purge
Canada372 Posts
On February 12 2013 05:20 h3r1n6 wrote: You seem very offended at people criticizing Malzahar. No one is bad mouthing him, he just doesn't seem to be up to par with other champions, and while zer0das does raise some points in his favor, you bring nothing to the discussion. I don't really care about Malzahar, as I didn't enjoy playing him and find him kinda annoying to lane against, but he needs some buffs imo. Maybe make him able to move while ulting, but keep the tether range as it is. That would also make it possible to ignite people without accidentally canceling the ult. You already can ult people without accidentally ruining the ult. There is a 100 range difference on the cast radii, so you have to stand closer than max range to do it. Also remember that it using ignite counts as a proc to his passive - so you can drop your shit at 3 stacks instead of 4 and kill everything. Malz isnt a bad champ, just very difficult to play - so noone plays him. His q/w are very strong skills, and his R is very, very good midgame when people dont have qss. Also taking into account his ambushing ability (bait a roam, wait for the enemy laner to follow - ult on his face). I still personally have issues after this part in the game - teamfighting and when people get QSS.- Qss doesnt stop the damage though, so not all is lost. Im going to work on using him with rylais/liandries more and see how that pans out because Im feeling with the buffs this patch its going to be completely ludicrous (at least it is on paper) what he can do to a team with W and E, to say nothing of how strong his W-R flash combo with liandries should be. That and positioning off from my team. Should be interesting to try. | ||
Kashmir
New Zealand178 Posts
I like the damage he does, especially single-target. Unless I get fed I rely on landing my Q and E a lot and always remember to slide my W under the team fights. I love my ult but rely on my other moves since anyone worth their salt simply cleanses/interrupts/QSS's out of it. The pet is really handy and I've played AD malz for fun but haven't made a habit of it. If my team is having a hard time I'll buy a rylai's but that seldom happens. Even though I can sometimes carry a team if they're relying on me to win it back for them around mid/late game we've probably lost anyway. By that point I'm getting focused hard and hugging zhonya's like a long-lost friend. I've started learning syndra because I like the CC and burst damage she affords me although I'd never hate malz. He was my first ever ap and I enjoy him a lot. | ||
Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
Does no one think he would be good in this current meta? He can wreck one person super hard when they dive on his carry, and there are plenty of divers in this meta right now: Xin, J4, Vi, Zac, Akali, Zed, Kha6, and more. He feels pretty similar to a Lux: sit back and just peel for adc with combo+ult. Granted Lux can hit 5 people with her ult potentially, but the damage Malz can put out is silly when you have a good amount of ap. Just seems with how safe the mid picks are nowadays(TF/Nid/Lux) Malz could have a super easy laning phase. Just need to watch out for ganks sadly. Also, it is incredible how hard this guy shoves. I've played Viktor before, so it isn't as strong as his push power, but damn Malzahar shoves. Finally, does anyone like tear on him? Been forcing tear on so many mages lately, and I actually think its pretty good on him. | ||
sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 18 2013 17:05 Cloud9157 wrote: Been trying this guy out a lot recently. Probably sitting around 10 games played so far, so not the most experience ever, but I feel like I have a feel for how he works. Does no one think he would be good in this current meta? He can wreck one person super hard when they dive on his carry, and there are plenty of divers in this meta right now: Xin, J4, Vi, Zac, Akali, Zed, Kha6, and more. He feels pretty similar to a Lux: sit back and just peel for adc with combo+ult. Granted Lux can hit 5 people with her ult potentially, but the damage Malz can put out is silly when you have a good amount of ap. Just seems with how safe the mid picks are nowadays(TF/Nid/Lux) Malz could have a super easy laning phase. Just need to watch out for ganks sadly. Also, it is incredible how hard this guy shoves. I've played Viktor before, so it isn't as strong as his push power, but damn Malzahar shoves. Finally, does anyone like tear on him? Been forcing tear on so many mages lately, and I actually think its pretty good on him. Malz is really not amazing peel, he has one channeled CC. At tourney level you can bet there will be someone there to interrupt him 100% of the time. Plus like you said there are a lot of divers in the meta right now, which slaughter him in lane (you get jumped on by mid kha and jungle xin, what do you do? die horribly) plus a lot of popular mids have just as strong clear as him, Kha, Zed, TF, Kayle, or can totally keep up like Diana or Karthus or Lux. | ||
clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
So i had two games as malz support and first i just picked him because i was kind of bored. Then I realized how fucking good his kit works as a support. the silence is perfect for zoneing/interrupting and kiting also serves as a decent gank assist tool. his overall basedamage is high because he has voidlings and W. It's really the cooldowns which weaken his kit, which is no problem for a support because cdr is so cheap on support items. the ap support items fit him quite well. the slow on manareg aura thingy can be used quite well with his combo. actually all the cheap ap items are kind of neat on malz. then in teamfights he is the absolute baller. because when you dont have to carry as malz but you protect carries you suddenly become this huge threat because you can play almost purely reactive. malz deals way too much damage and his ult is way too strong even with minimal ap, so they cant ignore you but they kind of have to attack and cc all these other threats. he is kinda similar to zyra while his cc feels way stronger and more reliable. | ||
upperbound
United States2300 Posts
I think his W should have a slow, to be honest. Then I would play him because I wouldn't have to build rylais without a way to get a max effect slow. | ||
ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
(since the patch where sotel applies on all physical damage, your voidlings proc it) machete 5 -> bruta + elder lizard + iceborne + sorc boots is an interesting mix of damage | ||
| ||