[Champion] Garen - Page 20
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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GreggSauce
United States566 Posts
On July 04 2014 20:31 Slayer91 wrote: you're far overrating this invincibility thing. Having 250 more hp (max 500) from the 25% bonus thing from spirit of ancient golem is just going to be like a few more autos from an adc and what can you really get done with that extra few seconds on garen? You already do nothing with spells on cd. You're probably going to be underfarmed and can't gank for shit anyway. Elder lizard would make a lot more sense on him. maybe, idk I just won with it, only in plat V though currently, dropped down. killing was a bit of a problem but you can only ignore a champion for like 3 seconds before the damage starts adding up | ||
Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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GreggSauce
United States566 Posts
On July 08 2014 00:31 Scip wrote: If you have a video recording thing can you show me how to get to lvl4 as Garen without backing because I have no idea how you'd go about doing that as jungle? you need a very hard leash at red and it's not too bad, i almost never do full clears though. my garen game I played I went red, ganked mid, blue, wolves, ganked, wraiths, backed I think. | ||
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Still, without flash you're not very effective and your clear is abysmal. | ||
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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GreggSauce
United States566 Posts
On July 09 2014 21:59 Slayer91 wrote: better hope their reflexes suck for flashing themselves yeah def not ideal, the level 2 gank I do is more for pressure and sometimes forces a flash on themselves since its so unexpected | ||
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On July 09 2014 03:43 GreggSauce wrote: as jungle? you need a very hard leash at red and it's not too bad, i almost never do full clears though. my garen game I played I went red, ganked mid, blue, wolves, ganked, wraiths, backed I think. Personal route Open red, charge to their red, ward their red and wait at the brush closest to the top inner tower. If their jungler checks that brush run down HUGGING the wall - itll kill the vision. Then just do the level 2 garen cheese accordingly..best is to wait for lizard to be low enough so when you drop the silence on the jungler he either backs off and gives up the red or he tries to contest and he dies. Bonus points for getting both obviously. Will most likely result in kill unless elise since she doesnt tank the lizard herself so shes gonna be max HP. Garen is NOT a farmer. Think of him as a Pantheon jungle who maxed Q first - you want to gank and you want to gank hard. Abuse your early game damage. If lanes arent that good for ganking, camp their jungler. Two points in E is enough for clearing small camps. Garen is so uncommon that people dont really know how to properly deal with him and how much damage he can deal with items xyz...especially true vs mid/bot/jungler mains since they really, really dont play vs garen that much That Q crit from 1% rune on squishies tho Personally I dont bother getting W pre 6 since I wont have any tank items and Id rather get that two points into E and 3 points into Q for absolute terror..Maybe someone can correct me on that | ||
Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
The best comparison to Garen is Shyvana, except that instead of having pretty decent jungle (after first clear) Garen has embarrassingly awful jungle and scales way worse into the lategame out of the jungle. | ||
padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On July 13 2014 10:42 Scip wrote: Why would you think of Garen as someone who (used to have during his prime) an offensive jump, a significant stun and slow jungle when Garen can't claim to have any of those things? The best comparison to Garen is Shyvana, except that instead of having pretty decent jungle (after first clear) Garen has embarrassingly awful jungle and scales way worse into the lategame out of the jungle. Hes not a good jungler at all. Hes a cheese jungler. Hes good at raking in kills when ahead and absolutely fucking terrible at farming back a decent game in the jungle when behind. Hes good at constant skirmishes but if the game is slow - hes bad at stealing buffs, abysmal at controlling dragon, and only works well in small skirmishes mid game with or without a good damage item. His one trick pony style gets countered by a fucking hex drinker if opponents are paying attention - a 1350 gold cost item denying a champion of his sole purpose mid-late game. Why compare him to shyvanna tho? Shyv easily has one of the fastest clears while being terrible at all the skirmishes before 6, while garen is the opposite. | ||
sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On July 12 2014 16:17 padfoota wrote: Personal route Open red, charge to their red, ward their red and wait at the brush closest to the top inner tower. If their jungler checks that brush run down HUGGING the wall - itll kill the vision. Then just do the level 2 garen cheese accordingly..best is to wait for lizard to be low enough so when you drop the silence on the jungler he either backs off and gives up the red or he tries to contest and he dies. Bonus points for getting both obviously. Will most likely result in kill unless elise since she doesnt tank the lizard herself so shes gonna be max HP. Garen is NOT a farmer. Think of him as a Pantheon jungle who maxed Q first - you want to gank and you want to gank hard. Abuse your early game damage. If lanes arent that good for ganking, camp their jungler. Two points in E is enough for clearing small camps. Garen is so uncommon that people dont really know how to properly deal with him and how much damage he can deal with items xyz...especially true vs mid/bot/jungler mains since they really, really dont play vs garen that much That Q crit from 1% rune on squishies tho Personally I dont bother getting W pre 6 since I wont have any tank items and Id rather get that two points into E and 3 points into Q for absolute terror..Maybe someone can correct me on that Q doesn't crit... I would also not max Q over E. 1 point in Q gets you: +25 damage +.75 speed duration +.25 silence duration 1 point in E gets you: +25 damage per second (+75 total damage) +10% AD scaling (+30% total AD scaling damage) -1sec cd So from a damage perspective you are getting far far more out of E and it also assists in clearspeed. | ||
padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On July 14 2014 15:29 sob3k wrote: Q doesn't crit... I would also not max Q over E. 1 point in Q gets you: +25 damage +.75 speed duration +.25 silence duration 1 point in E gets you: +25 damage per second (+75 total damage) +10% AD scaling (+30% total AD scaling damage) -1sec cd So from a damage perspective you are getting far far more out of E and it also assists in clearspeed. Both his Q and his E crits - thats why IE is so amazing on him I get two points into E for clear speed but I prioritize ganking - Q gives better chase/map movement, longer CC, and higher burst. If I wanted to slowly grind people down while ganking I wouldnt be picking garen. I even rush those 60ms boots to abuse his Q ms buff even more, although Ive been feeling a faster Lizard elders will probably be much better for his early game. Garen's jungle is horrendous regardless of any level of E if hes popping 1-2 pots per camp before elder lizard, so I feel its better to just clear less camps and gank/tax more, utilizing his passive while roaming to save on pots, ignoring the golems and wraiths if smite on CD so top/bot can farm those too. Yes he will be fucked if his early game plays out bad. Thats why I said hes a cheese jungler. He has to abuse timings, level advantage windows and map information to get ahead so hes nowhere close to be an "easy" jungler. Missing those windows as an early game bully makes garen even worse than just a "bad jungler"..especially when hes a "terrible jungler" if blue start. I recognize that my previous ending statement was flawed - I was asking tips on getting W early or not. | ||
sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On July 15 2014 02:11 padfoota wrote: Both his Q and his E crits - thats why IE is so amazing on him I get two points into E for clear speed but I prioritize ganking - Q gives better chase/map movement, longer CC, and higher burst. If I wanted to slowly grind people down while ganking I wouldnt be picking garen. I even rush those 60ms boots to abuse his Q ms buff even more, although Ive been feeling a faster Lizard elders will probably be much better for his early game. Garen's jungle is horrendous regardless of any level of E if hes popping 1-2 pots per camp before elder lizard, so I feel its better to just clear less camps and gank/tax more, utilizing his passive while roaming to save on pots, ignoring the golems and wraiths if smite on CD so top/bot can farm those too. Yes he will be fucked if his early game plays out bad. Thats why I said hes a cheese jungler. He has to abuse timings, level advantage windows and map information to get ahead so hes nowhere close to be an "easy" jungler. Missing those windows as an early game bully makes garen even worse than just a "bad jungler"..especially when hes a "terrible jungler" if blue start. I recognize that my previous ending statement was flawed - I was asking tips on getting W early or not. No, his Q doesn't crit. It's a autoattack modifier. The autoattack portion of it can crit like any auto. The bonus damage and bonus AD ratio does not crit. It's the same as every other next auto modifier in the game (Jax W, Vayne Q etc). The only reason anyone mentions Garen Q being able to crit is that at one point the skill was bugged to not have any portion crit, which was then fixed. Q max does give barely increased mobility and an inconsequential .25s silence, but certainly not higher burst. If you aren't able to spin on a laner for at least two tics you basically contributed nothing to the gank anyway, and if you are able to then level 2 E does over double the damage of level 2 Q. If you level E Garen's clear speed is not by any measure horrendous after 2+ levels. Its actually quite fast due to how much damage E gets on each level. I wouldn't get W early, your ganks are your focus and you need more damage for then more than any survivability. | ||
padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On July 15 2014 06:09 sob3k wrote: No, his Q doesn't crit. It's a autoattack modifier. The autoattack portion of it can crit like any auto. The bonus damage and bonus AD ratio does not crit. It's the same as every other next auto modifier in the game (Jax W, Vayne Q etc). The only reason anyone mentions Garen Q being able to crit is that at one point the skill was bugged to not have any portion crit, which was then fixed. Q max does give barely increased mobility and an inconsequential .25s silence, but certainly not higher burst. If you aren't able to spin on a laner for at least two tics you basically contributed nothing to the gank anyway, and if you are able to then level 2 E does over double the damage of level 2 Q. If you level E Garen's clear speed is not by any measure horrendous after 2+ levels. Its actually quite fast due to how much damage E gets on each level. I wouldn't get W early, your ganks are your focus and you need more damage for then more than any survivability. How come it hits 1k+ with only IE tho :/ Anyways when I say it gives higher burst I mean instantaneous burst - for those flash QR moments, I max Q before 6, so its still 2 points into E since we ignore W anyways, but after 6 I guess leveling E makes sense. Doesnt matter anyways since I just got my ass handed to me by a level 2 rengar cheese on ranked even tho I pinked blue river and opened red ....I give up on jungler for a few days for now | ||
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
@300 AD IE crit gives a total of 800 damage +.4 AD +130 == 1050 dmg if the .4 ad crits as well its more like 1200 damage. | ||
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
better than nasus vs nid nid is super weak by level 9 or so | ||
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Never felt this oppressed in a lane match up for a very long time. | ||
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