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Fizz, The Tidal Trickster:
Stats:
+ Show Spoiler +Health: 414 (+86) Mana: 200 (+40) Attack Damage: 53 (+3) Attack Speed: 0.658 (+3.1% / +0.031) Range: 175 Health Regen: 7.0 (+0.7) Mana Regen: 6.15 (+0.45) Armor: 13 (+3.4) Magic Resist: 30 (+1.25) Movement Speed: 310
Patch Changes:
+ Show Spoiler +V1.0.0.135: Base damage increased to 56 from 54. Armor per level increased to 3.4 from 3.1. Chum the Waters mana cost reduced to 100 from 150.
V1.0.0.132: Chum the Waters: implemented the following changes which were in Ahri patch changelog, but not actually moved into the patch: Added a 3-2-1 timer like Time Bomb. No longer hits nontargetable units like Vladimir in Sanguine Pool. Hitting an enemy who is immune to the Fish now causes the Fish to drop on the ground instead of fizzling. Fixed a bug where it stopped working if Fizz died. Using Quicksilver Sash now drops the Fish on the ground instead of causing the shark to emerge immediately.
V1.0.0.131: Base health regen per 5 reduced to 7 from 9. Chum the Waters Fixed a bug where Chum the Waters stopped working if Fizz died. Hitting an enemy who is immune to the Fish now causes the Fish to drop on the ground instead of fizzling. Using Quicksilver Sash now drops the Fish on the ground instead of causing the shark to emerge immediately. Added a 3-2-1 timer like Time Bomb. No longer hits nontargetable units like Vladimir in Sanguine Pool. Urchin Strike ability power ratio reduced to .6 from .7. Seastone Trident active base damage reduced to 10/15/20/25/30 from 10/20/30/40/50.
V1.0.0.130: Urchin Strike: Targeting updated to hit targets slightly earlier. Damaging component can no longer be dodged.
Abilities:
[Passive] - Nimble Fighter: Fizz's dexterity allows him to perpetually ignore unit collision and take reduced physical damage from auto-attacks.
+ Show Spoiler +Level 1: 4 Reduced Damage Level 4: 6 Reduced Damage Level 7: 8 Reduced Damage Level 10: 10 Reduced Damage Level 13: 12 Reduced Damage Level 16: 14 Reduced Damage
An amazing passive that lets him harass his opposing laner without taking too much, if any, creep damage.
[Q] - Urchin Strike: Fizz dashes a fixed distance in the direction of his target, dealing his total attack damage as physical damage plus additional magic damage to it. The ability will also apply on-hit effects.
+ Show Spoiler +Active: Rank 1: 50 Mana / 10 sec. CD / 10 (+0.6 AP) Magic Damage Rank 2: 55 Mana / 9 sec. CD / 40 (+0.6 AP) Magic Damage Rank 3: 60 Mana / 8 sec. CD / 70 (+0.6 AP) Magic Damage Rank 4: 65 Mana / 7 sec. CD / 100 (+0.6 AP) Magic Damage Rank 5: 70 Mana / 6 sec. CD / 130 (+0.6 AP) Magic Damage
This is your initiate, your escape, and your juke boots. Because there's a fixed distance, you need to be careful when hitting something that's close to you or you might end up in an undesirable position. Apparently, if you use this when an enemy is too close to a thin wall, you will go through both; I haven't had this happen yet but be wary of that. This will also trigger effects such as Sheen, Lich Bane, Lizard Buff, and your [W] - Seastone Trident.
[W] - Seastone Trident: Fizz's auto-attacks passively deal magic damage over 3 seconds that strengthen if the opponent is low on life. Multiple auto-attacks will only refresh the duration. Activating it will empower Fizz for the next 5 seconds, dealing additional magic damage on-hit and inflicting grievous wounds to his opponents.
+ Show Spoiler +Passive: Rank 1: 30 (+0.35 AP) + (4% of Missing HP) Magic Damage Rank 2: 40 (+0.35 AP) + (5% of Missing HP) Magic Damage Rank 3: 50 (+0.35 AP) + (6% of Missing HP) Magic Damage Rank 4: 60 (+0.35 AP) + (7% of Missing HP) Magic Damage Rank 5: 70 (+0.35 AP) + (8% of Missing HP) Magic Damage
Active: 40 Mana / 10sec. CD Rank 1: 10 (+0.35 AP) Magic Damage Rank 2: 15 (+0.35 AP) Magic Damage Rank 3: 20 (+0.35 AP) Magic Damage Rank 4: 25 (+0.35 AP) Magic Damage Rank 5: 30 (+0.35 AP) Magic Damage
It's like your own miniature Ignite. Getting hit by this hurts, alot, especially once you start getting your AP. Use this when you've gotten close to your opposing laner with your [Q] or [E] to harass. In small or large teamfights, make sure you're using your auto-attacks as much as you can or you aren't dealing your maximum damage as Fizz.
[E] - Playful / Trickster: Playful: Fizz hops onto his trident in a nearby location, becoming untargetable for 0.5 seconds and gaining the ability to use Trickster before the effect ends. If Fizz doesn't use it, he will slam the ground below him, dealing magic damage and slowing nearby enemies for 2 seconds.
+ Show Spoiler +Active: Rank 1: 90 Mana / 16sec. CD / 40% Slow / 70 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage Rank 2: 100 Mana / 14sec. CD / 45% Slow / 120 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage Rank 3: 110 Mana / 12sec. CD / 50% Slow / 170 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage Rank 4: 120 Mana / 10sec. CD / 55% Slow / 220 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage Rank 5: 130 Mana / 8sec. CD / 60% Slow / 270 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage
Trickster: Fizz hops off from his trident to a nearby location, dealing magic damage nearby enemies in a smaller area than Playful. This ability will not slow enemies.
Active: Rank 1: 70 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage Rank 2: 120 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage Rank 3: 170 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage Rank 4: 220 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage Rank 5: 270 (+0.75 AP) Magic Damage
For clarification, this skill only deals magic damage once, no damage is applied getting on the spear; you either stay on the spear and it will automatically take you off or you activate Trickster and move, both dealing the magic damage. This skill is two dashs, one getting on the spear and one getting off; both of these dashes can be used to jump over walls or terrain. I've been messing around with this skill and I believe that this skill can jump over the same walls and ledges that Nidalee can. The range on this skill is deceptively high. This skill is how Fizz is able to manage laning middle without being dominated; able to evade things like Disintigrate, Null Sphere, Parrrley, Requiem, or a fed AD carry's auto-attacks. However, there's a very short window on how long you're invulnerable but with practice you get a feel of it. The range of this ability can be weird, so be cautious using this for dealing damage.
[R] - Chum the Waters: Fizz throws a fish in a line that will bind itself onto the first enemy champion it hits. If it doesn't hit an enemy champion it will stay on an area, and binds itself to the first enemy champion that walks into the area. Regardless of position, after 1.5 seconds, a Shark will emerge from the earth to eat the fish, dealing magic damage. The shark will knock up the bound enemy champion, and knock-back then slow all enemies in the area for 1.5 seconds.
+ Show Spoiler +Active: 100 Mana Rank 1: 100sec. CD / 50% Slow / 200 (+1.0 AP) Magic Damage Rank 2: 85sec. CD / 60% Slow / 325 (+1.0 AP) Magic Damage Rank 3: 70sec. CD / 70% Slow / 450 (+1.0 AP) Magic Damage
Lolllllll, most satisfying ultimate since Garen. It has the mechanics of how you'd throw Olaf's axe where you control how far the fish goes and where the it stops if it doesn't hit an enemy champion. The slow will be triggered before and after the shark pops out so it lasts for 3 seconds. The knock-back isn't really a knock-back but more of a nudge like the mechanics of a trundle pillar.
Skill Order:
Skill Path #1: Super-mega Aggressive Laning
R>Q>E>W
Q+W+Autox? onto enemy laner as much as possible. (if against somewhat-strong laner, Q+W every E cooldown) When low enough, QWERIgnite and kill. Cons: Difficult to farm without E, punished easily by ganks if too aggressive
Skill Path #2: Farmfest Laning
R>E>Q>W
E in between melee and caster minions to kill them all after obtaining significant AP. Look to E when enemy laner is in creep line to harass. (less relevant when laning mid) Cons: Mana (130mp for Level 5 E), weaker killing power than #1
There will be some exceptions to changing the skill order against some champions like perhaps maxing W against a Mundo or something.
Runes:
9x Magic Penetration / Magic Resist Reds 9x Armor Yellows 9x Ability Power / Ability Power per Level / Magic Resist Blues 3x Movement Speed / Ability Power / Health Quints
Reds are based on what you're comfortable with. Yellows are for your survivability in combination with your passive allowing you to take little to no minion damage when playing aggressively. Blues will depend on the player and matchup; I personally prefer flat AP because I like early aggression on Fizz. If I had the IP and additional runepages I would get movement speed for my quints because I could get those extra stabs of [W] in but I don't so I settle with flat AP. Health quints are also nice for surviving those early levels in a hard lane.
Masteries:
After many Fizz games, I've decided that this setup is best for playing Fizz (with some exceptions):
I've realized that Fizz deals amazing damage, so much that he doesn't need 21 points into offense. However, Fizz can only do this amazing damage after surviving his Kassadin-level early game. With these masteries, he reduces a lot of early-game harass, gets a little bit of extra health, and scaling CDR for his mid/late-game.
Summoner Spell Choices:
No one will ever catch you in combination with the rest of your kit. Everyone uses this. Fizz doesn't need escape summoners with his kit, so heal+ignite gives him a strong laning phase. Just makes your burst that much scarier, standard AP middle stuff.
Items:
Starting Items:
+ Show Spoiler +Boots + 3 Pots: Standard start, movement speed and a good number of pots. Sapphire Crystal + 2 Pots: Rush your catalyst. Regrowth Pendant + 1 Pot: Rushing philostone against weak/passive early laners. Cloth Armor + 5 Pots: For certain top lane matchups or going mid lane vs a Pantheon/Talon/AD Carry/Etc.
Opening Paths:
+ Show Spoiler +Philosopher's Stone: A nice item if you're laning top and sometimes mid against certain heros. Catalyst: Good sustain, straight into Rod of Ages. Double Doran's Rings: Standard AP build, lacking sustain but stronger burst and enough mana regen to never go out of mana if playing properly.
Shoes:
+ Show Spoiler +Sorcerer Shoes: Standard AP. Ionian Boots of Lucidity: If you're laning top and aren't going to be getting the blue buffs, these shoes aren't bad. Also lower CDs on your spells don't hurt (~40 second sharks). Ninja Tabi: Worth getting against a bruiser top / AD champion that you think is beating you in trades, otherwise just get something else. Mercury Treads: For playing against a team with a ton of CC. I end up taking these boots over the other 3 in most of my games.
Good Items Choices:
+ Show Spoiler +Rod of Ages: Makes you tankier to survive enemy burst with a decent amount of AP. Rabadon's Deathcap: Lots of AP for the stronger burstings. Sheen: A good item to get early on to make your Urchin Strike hurt in the laning phase. Lich Bane: A perfect item for Fizz. Lich Bane + On-hit AP champion = +1.0 AP ratio on Urchin Strike totalling for a 1.6 AP Ratio. Zhonya's Hourglass: So I herd you like being invincible.. Deathfire Grasp: After seeing the Fnatic AP players do this and one-shotting carries, I realize this is a very viable, if not core, item on Fizz. Use this by hitting a shark on an enemy, followed by DFG, followed by Urchin Strike for tons of damage.
Bad Item Choices:
+ Show Spoiler +Hextech Revolver/Gunblade/WoTA: Fizz is not a sustainy/long-fight type of champ; he wants to kill someone instantly and get out immediately after. Furthermore, 2 of his skills are AoE and one doesn't vamp at all so buying these items isn't cost effective. Rylai's: Fizz has plenty of chasing power and slows in his kit that it isn't worth buying Rylai's ever. Sight Ward: [Note: Half-joking] Wards? Why get wards? You're a trolly fishy who hops away from any and every gank.
Example Final Build:
Jungle Fizz:
For jungle fizz you'd build more like a bruiser than an AP carry but your role in teamfights is basically the same. For runes you'll need a good amount of attack speed as well as building items such as Wit's End or Trinity Force. For skills you'll be maxing [W]Seastone Trident and hitting jungle creeps once then attacking the next for the most efficient jungle clears.
Example Final Build:
Matchups:
Fizz has an incredibly weak early game because he's melee and cannot counter-harass. However, once he gets a few levels and at least one point in QWE, you can out-harass them with your damage. There are champions that you counter fairly hard and champions that will give you a hard time. Zilean is one of the more difficult champions to fight just because of his powerful harass, so play safely in this one. Kassadin is actually very, very very, bad against Fizz; dodge his Q's with your [E] and harass him whenever he gets nearby. Even when he hits 6 he's not in the clear yet because you burst as hard, if not harder, than he does.
Another thing about Fizz is that he is very good at getting away from ganks. Your summoner (Ghost/Flash), Seastone Trident, Playful/Trickster, and Chum the Waters will get you away from almost every form of gank possible. This means you usually have the freedom to be as aggressive as you want in lane without consequence.
Counterpicking with Fizz:
Vladimir: Against Vlad, your early weak levels don't exist. Winning this lane is on the Fizz player so trade smart and often. Karthus: Karthus can only farm incredibly passively against Fizz or risk getting bursted. Also, you can playful his ultimate with proper timing. Kassadin: A melee AP caster who's only means of counter-harass can be dodged with Playful. This lane should be a stomp throughout the entire laning phase. Cho'Gath: Cho can be bursted down in early levels and his skills can be evaded, sometimes without the need of Playful. If the lane progresses and he builds no resistances, your seastone trident will destroy him. Dr. Mundo: The hardest counter of them all. The healing debuff and % HP burn on your Seastone Trident will destroy any Mundo. His harass is much weaker than your harass. He has no chasing power over you with your Urchin Strike/Playful&Trickster.
Countering Fizz:
There are very few champions that counter Fizz once he's able to survive his initial 3 levels. To take him on, pick a champion that either has constant low CD damage, or instant-unavoidable damage. Soraka destroys most AP middle champions and Fizz even more because he's melee. Corki and Ezreal are both powerful solo AD champions who have high dps. Talon's damage becomes unavoidable if he's able to silence Fizz.
As the game progresses to mid/late-game, you need CC. Lots of instant hard CC. If Fizz doesn't get locked down, he'll simply hop around your team and dominate teamfights; but if he does, he is very squishy and can be killed very fast. Champions like Alistar, Blitzcrank, and Rammus are good at this.
The Riot Shop:
Fizz: 6300 IP or 975 RP
Atlantean Fizz: 975 RP Tundra Fizz: 975 RP Fisherman Fizz: 975 RP
More Fizz?
There aren't many high ELO streamers who play Fizz on NA, with the exception of Voyboy who plays AD/Bruiser Fizz. On EU however, Tabzz, MoMa, and xPeke play Fizz and some have played them in tournament games as well.
Tune into their streams to see high ELO Fizz plays!
Closing:
+ Show Spoiler +
Fizz is very very strong and people are going to find out quickly how good he is. I'll add more to this as I play more with him.
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United States47024 Posts
Didn't we already have a discussion about people not starting these threads the day after a champion comes out? Nobody is going to know how to play the champion properly this soon.
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From what I've seen, his laning phase is pretty abusive, especially when paired with a good poking champ like Ashe or GP. Also, he towerdived me 3 times, once below half health at level 6, and got away
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yeah fizz is rly good, i played him once as a jungler with wiggles/wits/madred etc, really good ganks with his 2 gap closing skills, went 16-3-14, then i went the build above and went 11-1-4
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It seems like you'd get more DPS out of Fizz by just going full AD and getting on-hit effect items, because of his W.
I think he'd be best as a jungler too tbh, because the AP build seems meh at best (Idk how he is gonna be able to beat most common mids), and he has no sustain for top.
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On November 17 2011 15:32 Ferrose wrote: It seems like you'd get more DPS out of Fizz by just going full AD and getting on-hit effect items, because of his W.
I think he'd be best as a jungler too tbh, because the AP build seems meh at best (Idk how he is gonna be able to beat most common mids), and he has no sustain for top.
I have tried a hybrid build and it seems to be the best so far, going for boots then malady, bv and hextech gun as core items :-)
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On November 17 2011 14:06 TheYango wrote: Didn't we already have a discussion about people not starting these threads the day after a champion comes out? Nobody is going to know how to play the champion properly this soon.
Honestly if we could have a rule saying that no one can make a thread for the new champ for like two weeks after they're released that'd be pretty good. This thread and the Shyvana one are great examples of people being not 100% sure where to put the champion or what to build on them.
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On November 17 2011 15:55 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 14:06 TheYango wrote: Didn't we already have a discussion about people not starting these threads the day after a champion comes out? Nobody is going to know how to play the champion properly this soon. Honestly if we could have a rule saying that no one can make a thread for the new champ for like two weeks after they're released that'd be pretty good. This thread and the Shyvana one are great examples of people being not 100% sure where to put the champion or what to build on them.
I would argue that this applies to champs months after they are introduced. How many times has a champ suddenly become popular becomes some build became popular once discovered? I am a firm believer that Shyvana has not yet reached her true potential because too many people accept others builds too easily and stop experimenting. Shyvana I think might some hidden potential that could be discovered a while from now, or maybe she has reached her peak buildwise. We just don't know.
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Even assuming that people might not have realized exactly how to play a champ until months after release, 2 days is really no time at all. Making a guide implies you know WTF you're talking about, and while not all guides can be of the same quality as South's Kassadin guide they should strive to be so. At TL we tend to pride ourselves on our quality rather than our quantity and there are actually some champions TL doesn't even have guides/threads for (like master yi iirc).
Just because a champion is new and shiny doesn't mean we should skimp on quality. If GD is really too fast for people maybe we do need new discussion threads but we certainly don't need guides based on one person's 2 days of experience playing a champion. Personally though I don't see the need for extra discussion threads on new champs, the GD is just fine.
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Its not a one guide per thread format. I would make gunblade lichbanes deathcap with possible defensive options being zhonya's, abyssal scepter, banshee's veil, qss, gaurdian angel. I believe going for a fast rageblade and maxing w may be strong with the lichbanes as well.
Edit: Nvm above build sucks. No real way of stacking rage blade for when you need it, and spell vamp doesn't work with w. Rageblade, Lichbanes could work, but it seems that malady/witts end may be stronger.
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Like many others, I assumed Fizz's W benefits from spellvamp. It does not, making spellvamp very weak on him.
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Watched SK Ocelote play a couple games on his stream, playing him as a normal bruiser (irelia's way) and it looked completelly imba xD
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Veigar has been counter jungling with Fizz, using his E to hop over a wall, smite steal, then hop back (he has quick reaction time).
Fizz can also jungle, but it's a bit shaky. However, he makes a good ganker. For jungling, I start cloth armor and bots, go twins, wraiths, wolves, blue (should have a pot left after blue). I buy an amplifying tomb, then I clear twins, wraiths, wolves again and grab red. At this time I back again and get boots if I'm going to gank or another amplifying tomb (which I'll turn into a hextech revolver).
To jungle him, I go an odd 6/12/12 mastery setup, but it gives good defense, spellvamp and additional AP that makes his jungle possible.
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On November 18 2011 06:33 Riku wrote: Veigar has been counter jungling with Fizz, using his E to hop over a wall, smite steal, then hop back (he has quick reaction time).
Fizz can also jungle, but it's a bit shaky. However, he makes a good ganker. For jungling, I start cloth armor and bots, go twins, wraiths, wolves, blue (should have a pot left after blue). I buy an amplifying tomb, then I clear twins, wraiths, wolves again and grab red. At this time I back again and get boots if I'm going to gank or another amplifying tomb (which I'll turn into a hextech revolver).
To jungle him, I go an odd 6/12/12 mastery setup, but it gives good defense, spellvamp and additional AP that makes his jungle possible.
I wouldn't call his jungle shaky really, starting cloth+5 you can do a full clear (blue->wolves->wraiths->red->golems) without backing. It's a little slower than some other junglers but his ganks are very strong.
Saintvicious has been jungling Fizz all Tuesday and Wednesday on his stream building him standard bruiser i.e. wit's end warmogs etc. and it seems incredibly good.
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OMG I've laned against a few Fizzes now and I am super ragequit mad!
That invuln bro.... Can't ever engage onto him, and he hits like a truck early levels. Sadface
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I've tried both bruiser style and full AP style Fizz. I've done well and badly with both builds. Honestly, both builds work. Bruiser tries to take advantage of your insane W skill, but I personally like full AP so much better. He has amazing AP ratios on every single one of his skills and I like to take advantage of that.
Going Warmogs/Wit's End lets you stick through an entire fight and just keep dishing out constant damage, while going full AP means you have to play as an assassin and hit/run a lot. But your full combo is definitely comparable to Talon/Akali's burst if not better. In my experience, Fizz does pretty well mid lane seeing how you can dodge most AP mid's harass with your E and your Q+W lets you trade extremely effectively. He gets shit on by range ADs and a good number of bruisers, however, since he has no way to deal with sustained (auto-attack) harass.
I've been going 21/0/9 with AP yellows/blues, mpen reds, and mspd quints. Been running Flash/Ignite, but Surge might actually be good on Fizz. Boots3 start into catalyst. Then I grab RoA and Dcap. From there I get Void Staff/Lichbane/Zhonyas depending on what I need. Playing Fizz as a pure AP assassin is all about knowing when to go in. You have to use your E very defensively to disengage, but honestly, your RQW combo is pretty much guaranteed to one-shot any squishy.
I'm honestly not completely sold on Fizz as a jungler. His jungle is extremely safe due to his passive and the speed is comparable to other junglers, but slower than Rammus/Udyr. Ganking is pretty strong with red buff, but he has no hard cc of his own so it's best if your laners have some for of hard cc. If they do, a gank is a guaranteed summoners or kill cause you do so much damage. If they don't, unless they're super overextended you probably won't do much. It works, but I've just had more success with Fizz as a laner. The bruiser style build is also pretty sick, but it just feels like a waste to not take advantage of his insane AP scaling.
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i have established through an exhaustive study of 1 game that wits end -> rageblade > gextech hunblade ->ga is the best build ever
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this character is pretty much cheating if you lane with him
his jungle is fun but not amazing.
dudes go malady witsend
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I accidently picked the wrong masteries and runepage for Fizz yesterday (AD runepage, BruiserMasteries) and I decided what the hell, ill finish the hybrid and go AP
Omg, it worked pretty well actually. I got raped by a wukong before, but I absolutely tore this one apart. So much damage lategame aswell with RoA, Rylais and Wits
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I'm finding it odd that nobody has talked about AP Fizz with a Nashor's or Wit's. I tried with both of them with really good results especially if the enemy team doesn't have that much squishys to burst down.
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On November 19 2011 09:37 KOPF wrote: I'm finding it odd that nobody has talked about AP Fizz with a Nashor's or Wit's. I tried with both of them with really good results especially if the enemy team doesn't have that much squishys to burst down. If they don't have much squishies it's probably better to go bruiser style Fizz.
I've recently been really liking RoA into Wit's End and tanky shit like Frozen Heart/Abyssal and Triforce if I get fed.
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Fizz feels OP at this moment... =(
at least if the player knows how to use him
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Ap fizz seems to do crazy damages. I don't know why you wouldn't spec 21 in the offense tree, it's the best tree atm and fizz is a damage dealer, why utility ?
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AP Fizz is hilarious but at this point it feels more like a trollhard pick. All your abilities force you to be close to your enemy, which works when you are 1v1ing, but anything else and you'll probably die (and very quickly) in the process.
If you could build AP plus tanky it might work somehow, but otherwise you're better off playing any other typical mid caster.
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dude I played against a fizz who started with like 60 AP... its so annoying early game
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How is Fizz as a jungler? Is it possible to play him as one effectively? For say, me, who plays Jungle Amumu a lot, can Fizz be played the same way or is it just more effective to lane him?
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He doesn't have innate sustain and his clearing speed is average, but the gank potential is pretty good. He's susceptible to being counter jungled by a fast camp clearer (udyr, skarner), and although he's pretty good at 1v1ing, he'll probably not be as high hp as he needs to be to fight back.
Right now he looks way stronger in lane.
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Ye, I really don't like Fizz as a jungler. He's not fast, and has terrible sustain. Has good ganks, but they take too long to get going, and you need wriggles on him, which is imo, a bad item on him.
In lane he has some pretty good harass with q w auto attack harass and escape any problems with e.
I've been going Sheen > rylai Lichbane on him, seems really solid. Sheen makes total sense with his skillset, and Rylai is just amazing on him. Gives you hp, ap, and the slow is fantastic. Thoughts?
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On November 26 2011 08:55 Papvin wrote: Ye, I really don't like Fizz as a jungler. He's not fast, and has terrible sustain. Has good ganks, but they take too long to get going, and you need wriggles on him, which is imo, a bad item on him.
In lane he has some pretty good harass with q w auto attack harass and escape any problems with e.
I've been going Sheen > rylai Lichbane on him, seems really solid. Sheen makes total sense with his skillset, and Rylai is just amazing on him. Gives you hp, ap, and the slow is fantastic. Thoughts?
He's actually rather fast at clearing, perhaps not udyr and skarner fast but comes close to champs like amumu imo. And his ganks are bloody golden at level 4. He does so much damage with is W early on and he can easily dive a tower since his e is an easy escape out of it. And he really doesn't need wriggles imo, his passive and cloth armor makes him loose so little health it's pretty silly. Easily one of my favourite junglers, so much fun.
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Wriggles is necessary because otherwise you take either a million years to clear your jungle or run out of mana. Sustain is only a problem for the first 2 clears.
I take back what I said about AP Fizz btw. Smart positioning and waiting for the right moment to commit pretty much solves the problem of being squishy, and you still do crazy damages. That said, I'd start building tanky if the game drags on for too long. RoA / Rylai + resists are usually good enough.
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Rylais is suboptimal imo. It only procs on his E and ulti and you're not gonna use E to do damage or initiate.
Q does on-hit effects, which means it procs lifesteal and shit not spellvamp/Rylais. W is passive and it (and it's active) doesn't proc anything.
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rylai's does proc on fizz's Q
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That's not true. Just because Q procs on-hit effects doesn't mean the attack loses all other properties.
Q procs single target slow, while E and R proc aoe slow. These slows stack on top of the slows on E and R.
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i love this guy. He just... Flows! lol. this is the first champ i actually find fun to play(usually i just play lol for the competitiveness factor)
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Went jungle-fizz the other day. I loved it soooo much. The speed is about on par with amumu as stated, but ganks are something else! You have 2 gapclosers , 1 of wich does slow aswell. If you have your ulti up, the range is so huge you can lob it onto a player in middle while in the sidebrushes there. Its allmost more a guaranteed kill then for example a nocturne ult at 6.
The sustain on junglefizz is pretty bad, altho the passive and new jungle make that alot better. I tried attackspeedjunglefizz, apjungle and fullbruiserjungle, all 3 are about even in times of speed and gankingpower, tho AP in the end makes you burst the hardest.
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On November 28 2011 06:03 gtrsrs wrote: rylai's does proc on fizz's Q oh hm. gotta try that then.
been going roa->dcap into w/e. prolly try roa->dcap->belt/rylais and see how that works out.
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Ive been playin him ALOT lately!!
This guy is real good once you are able to use his skills as they are intended......I have been building boots>RoA>Dcap>as a core then whatever items the game needs after that......Hybrid is real good as well.....After Dcap ive gone hextech/Guinsoo's.....With this build, even late game tanks can be kited and damaged down to nothing pretty easily.....Im having ALOT of fun on him right now!
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ok so i've been running fizz as a counter to pretty much all the strong solo tops atm with moderate success
cloth + 5 most of the time, sometimes null + 2 if the matchup calls for it (ryze, vlad, morde) spec your runes to match who you'll be laning against, masteries usually 9/21/0
my first item is always a defensive one, because fizz's base damages are pretty good, and he has %-based damage
then i try to get some sort of magic damage in there - be it on-hit effects, AP, or Mpen. use playful/trickster to avoid ganks, trade hits as often as you can spam your W, and focus really hard on lasthitting
so against riven, i went cloth + 5 -> aegis -> sorc's -> abyssal (they had ap jungler and mid) -> rylai -> sheen against tyrnd, cloth + 5 -> frozen heart -> tabi -> archangel's -> game ended but i would have bought more mana at this point obv against leblanc, null + 2 -> aegis -> sheen -> sorc's -> whatever this lane was the easiest i've ever played, leblanc is awful against fizz against irelia, cloth + 5 -> madred's razer -> wit's end -> aegis -> bloodrazer -> GA
i dunno i just feel anything can work on him, it's just a matter of playing it by ear. lategame, if you've got an AP build you're gonna die pretty quickly without defensive items as well, whereas if you focus on tanky items and then damage as a second, shark is still gonna be super disruptive and you'll output plenty of damage on their carry with W and Q, without instadying
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Hm, so I've been having crazy succes with Fizz lately (mind you, on fknoob Elo, ~1400), and thought I'd share my thoughts on bulding him/playing him. My core build is 2 doran > sheen > rylai's > lichbane. I really like this for a lot of reasons. I feel early Sheen is batshit insane on Fizz, since with that, he can 100-0 combo most casters if he hits all his spells, and Sheen just makes perfect sense with his kit. After Sheen, you need some source of hp. Some build catalyst, I think that's bad. Sheen + doran should solve all your mana problems (Fizz doesn't have manaproblems). I find Rylai's perfect on Fizz. It gives you an hp pool big enough to be able to dive in with q, the slow is mad with q, and the ap is nice. Now, you might notice that I've invested a lot of money into something that doesn't give me much ap. That's fine! Fizz doesn't need a lot of ap to kill shit, so I don't feel this gimps your midgame. Lichbane should make sense now.
I really feel this is the optimal way to build him, and after that, you should fucking kill anything, so build whatever. I usually go deathcap.
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ugh, every time i play i come up with a new "op" build but i'm starting to realize that nothing is really OP on fizz, because it all boils down to fizz is just plain OP. i beat a 2200 elo riven the other day. i'm not even a good fizz and i completely zoned this guy from creeps and killed him multiple times in lane with no ganks. riven is one of the most well-rounded and strongest laners. that shouldn't happen. anything you build on fizz will work, i suggest you start playing fizz and master him before his nerfs. i predict "regi's secret AP" will be fizz, he will unveil him within 2 weeks, fizz will be FOTM within 3 weeks, and fizz will be permaban within 3-4 weeks and nerfed within 5 weeks. YOU HAVE 1 MONTH TO GET UNLIMITED FREE ELO FROM FIZZ, EVERY BUILD WORKS.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Never played him, but his damages just seem insane when played against. Last time I was playing Graves bot, they had a Fizz mid, we were taking drag, so he thought it fun to just walk through my whole team and oneshot me despite people actually firing stuff at him. We won the game in the end, but at that time he wasn't even fed. As an added bonus, you're in range of his killing combo when he's at the edge of the screen. I predict that Riot will xinzhao him to the ground, because he should be literally roflstomping low ELO games.
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I'm still confused as to how fizz was nerfed. After a month of post patch fizz, he still shits on most champions, especially if the guy that got sharked walks into his team in a team fight.
Hell I agree with the guy who said you can build anything and he would still be OP. I've been trying builds even phreaks build. I'm just confused why people don't play him more often. :p
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Ever since i watched fnatic get wrecked in a scrim vs a fizz who kept diving through 4 fnatic members and 1 shotting their sivir while dodging every single spell, i'm still confused as to why its not played more often in solo queue.
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Fizz laning is iffy. He's inherently squishy with no sustain. Ranged champs or champs with spam able range harass poop on him since you can't retaliate or dodge all harass while bein mana efficient. Fizz does pretty well against some melee champs tho
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I've played Fizz quite a few times and I'm still not quite sure about him. Here's the things that worry me:
1) Early (pre 4-6) laning. Somehow people havent been doing this to me when I play Fizz but when I play against one I just shit on him till he reaches level 4-6 (depending on my champ). Now you might say this is fairly fast, but I mean SHIT on him. Nowhere near minions, behind the tower shit on.
2) Midgame hard CC. Sure, if people are foolish enough to blow all if it on you when you still have your trident-hop up it's not so much of a worry, but a welltimed stun either when comming in or when just ending the hop usually means death.
3) Endgame.While the bunny-hop is certainly a good tool, a team who knows what they'r doing will still blow you up immediatly after, since you'll most likely be in a position a squishy AP really has no place being in. I often find myself arriving at the endgame with a comfortable score and item-lead only to find myself easily focussed down as soon as I so much as dare to jump in.
That said, Fizz is awesome, awesome fun to play. I still want to try to make him work out of the jungle since his ganks are good and (provided you've got enough beef in your team) he really works best in addition to another AP imo. If someone has found a good consistent way to make him works and/or some tips on that I'm all ears =)
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Aah just played some Fizz games again (thanks to this thread really ^^) and absolutely loved it. I'm wondering tho, if the little bastard can work in the jungle, and as such have been trying various rune-mastery-item setups but haven't quite gotten to a satisfactionary state. While I'm fairly sure on the Mastery-Rune setup that works best so far out of the ones I have (ASpeed red/blue, armor yellow and arpen quints) combined with 21-9-0 masteries, I'm not at all sure about the item setup. Starting Cloth+5 seems kind of mandatory, but I notice that going for Madreds or Wriggles first, while effective in the jungle basically means you have to either keep taking blue's or back a lot. I'm wondering if going cloth5-->Sheen-->Roa-->Rylais-->Lichbane-->Deathcap or something similar might be doable, but I'm not sure yet. Any input is welcome =)
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On January 27 2012 05:28 Ryuu314 wrote: Fizz laning is iffy. He's inherently squishy with no sustain. Ranged champs or champs with spam able range harass poop on him since you can't retaliate or dodge all harass while bein mana efficient. Fizz does pretty well against some melee champs tho
Fizz's base HP and HP per level is the same as Riven's and above average. He has 2 less armor, but that's it, even the scaling MR is there. His passive reduces the damages even further, I wouldn't call that "inherently squishy".
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On January 27 2012 07:23 BluzMan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 05:28 Ryuu314 wrote: Fizz laning is iffy. He's inherently squishy with no sustain. Ranged champs or champs with spam able range harass poop on him since you can't retaliate or dodge all harass while bein mana efficient. Fizz does pretty well against some melee champs tho Fizz's base HP and HP per level is the same as Riven's and above average. He has 2 less armor, but that's it, even the scaling MR is there. His passive reduces the damages even further, I wouldn't call that "inherently squishy". You can't really compare him to Riven considering how Riven gets a no mana cost 1.0 AD-scaling shield while having insane mobility at no cost. Fizz's survivability is completely dependent on his E, which can be very mana inefficient in the vast majority of damage trades.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Remove Riven from the above post and leave just the "above average". Twitch is inherently squishy. Fizz is not. Not inherently.
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On January 27 2012 18:32 BluzMan wrote: Remove Riven from the above post and leave just the "above average". Twitch is inherently squishy. Fizz is not. Not inherently. He is. You either escape using E or die within a hard CC. Even if his base HP is relatively high, he needs to stay in melee range to deal any significant damage or last hit and he generally does not build any resistances before Lich Bane.
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On January 27 2012 18:32 BluzMan wrote: Remove Riven from the above post and leave just the "above average". Twitch is inherently squishy. Fizz is not. Not inherently. Fizz is definitely not above average in the survivability department; especially not early game laning phase. He's average at best; slightly below average at worst in terms of survivability. In terms of both base HP and base armor he scores average and below average respectively. His survivability stat growth is okay. Fizz has above average HP/lvl, far below average armor/lvl, and above average mr/lvl.
Here are all champ stats if you care to look for yourself: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Base_champion_statistics
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Dat E. I was playing Anivia in mid vs him and i managed to kill him once. So he goes bot and proceeds to start slaughtering my teammates. After getting fed he proceeds to repeatedly tower dive me, first with two others, and then by himself. He ended up 17/2/2. Clearly more people need to learn to work around his E, else you get tower dived all day long. AP fizz btw.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
correct me if im wrong but i believe people stopped playing him because they fixed the bug where qss did nothing to shark, now it actually negates it. So hes just another malzahar now where as soon as carries get qss hes pretty meh
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His damage is still pretty good outside of his ult, he's just very situational, like all bursty melee AP champs. He's not a champ you can pick every single game, similar to Akali.
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His E is still totally absurd, even worse than GP's oranges in the "no matter how hard you try, the amount of effort I need to counter you is minimal" department. Are you sure about QSS? I bought one in a game where there was a Fizz, and I got fish'd once, I mashed the key for QSS and I still got bitten with the knock-up and everything. Wasn't the bug that the shark is automatically triggered as soon as you use QSS?
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The bait-fish now drops on the ground when you QSS. If you don't move away from it in time (and you're caught in its slow field, so this may take a mobility skill or flash) you're still taking the "not primary target" knockup damage.
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I've been loving jungle Fizz for awhile now, but I end up building the on-hit Teemo build (bloodrazor/wites end/frozen mallet) and I feel like that's not quite optimal.
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Man I don't really know about this champion. I think to buy him then see you guys talking of his bad earlygame and inherent squishiness. But then I see come fizz go like 16/3/10 for 5 games in a row. I'm really confused if I should buy him - he looks so fun.
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On February 10 2012 12:42 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: Man I don't really know about this champion. I think to buy him then see you guys talking of his bad earlygame and inherent squishiness. But then I see come fizz go like 16/3/10 for 5 games in a row. I'm really confused if I should buy him - he looks so fun. His early laning is weak, if you manage to get past that, you have a champ...
a) with insane killing potential post 6 b) that is relatively highly reliant on kills to snowball c) when ahead in lane, gets REALLY ahead in lane d) who has the mobility to roam around and gank well f) that is able to carry a team g) that takes a while to figure out how to play in teamfights.
If you don't mind any of these things, pick him up! He's severely underplayed right now, and while he has quite a few bad laning matchups, I'd say he's a sleeper waiting to be discovered.
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On February 10 2012 18:39 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 12:42 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: Man I don't really know about this champion. I think to buy him then see you guys talking of his bad earlygame and inherent squishiness. But then I see come fizz go like 16/3/10 for 5 games in a row. I'm really confused if I should buy him - he looks so fun. His early laning is weak, if you manage to get past that, you have a champ... a) with insane killing potential post 6 b) that is relatively highly reliant on kills to snowball c) when ahead in lane, gets REALLY ahead in lane d) who has the mobility to roam around and gank well f) that is able to carry a team g) that takes a while to figure out how to play in teamfights. If you don't mind any of these things, pick him up! He's severely underplayed right now, and while he has quite a few bad laning matchups, I'd say he's a sleeper waiting to be discovered.
I've played vs Fizz a few times and I think he should just be comboed with maokai for essentially a kill lane mid. He just cannot keep up with CS and gets zoned by longer ranged mids, but he retains the ability to just output insane burst and rarely actually dies in lane (E too good for dodging ults). Definetly an interesting mid, played about 4 games as Xerath against him, doubling or tripling his CS, but just could not kill him or even get aggressive or face instant death. Got frustrated trying to go for kills first game and ended up feeding him 4 kills mid...should have been content with 130 vs 55 cs. I learned my lesson. A nasty CC jungle like Mao or WW would just be ridiculous with him.
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If youre midding fizz start boots 3 pots buy catalyst buy sheen sorc boots turn into rod turn into lich bane get abyssal rabaddons and finally guardians angel
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Noob theorycraft time: So Fizz has almost the same kit as Gangplank, and so I thought to play him similarily (build is different): -His Q also does attack dmg + flat amount + on-hit (but scales ap instead of ad, but a gap-closer) -His poison hits harder but doesn't slow. -His E dodges spells completely instead of breaking CC and healing (pro- vs retro-). -His passive reduces damage instead of adding it (GP E), and he gets phase vs move speed. -His ult is smaller, less range, more damage, knock up, both slow.
Jungle with cloth + 5, runes still working on but AS red, AR yellow, MR blue, AS/AR/MS? quint, 21/5/4. Wriggle's, Merc's, Wit's End, Frozen Mallet. I've been going Triforce but you are pretty squish. Improvements?
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so speaking as somebody who has only played this guy once - why don't people play him as a tanky dps top? something with wriggles triforce mogs for example. The assassin build doesn't seem to work that well to me and the base damage on his W is just unreal.
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people do... it's just not as good imhowic
the W re-applies instead of stacking so you get the most use of it by poking with it or bursting with it, not by doing DoT with it
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I'd think you'd want to sort of like spread the damage out in a fight than, hit multiple targets and keep the dot going like singed running through everyone.
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On February 20 2012 17:15 UniversalSnip wrote: I'd think you'd want to sort of like spread the damage out in a fight than, hit multiple targets and keep the dot going like singed running through everyone.
it's a lot harder to do with auto attacks than a poison cloud that stays hanging for 4 seconds after you fart it
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On February 20 2012 18:45 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 17:15 UniversalSnip wrote: I'd think you'd want to sort of like spread the damage out in a fight than, hit multiple targets and keep the dot going like singed running through everyone. it's a lot harder to do with auto attacks than a poison cloud that stays hanging for 4 seconds after you fart it
yeh that makes sense
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Jungle on hit fizz is actually really good. The itemization works out in such a way that wriggles+wits+health makes you really tanky and lets you destroy baron and enemy champions, albeit not as fast as ap fizz.
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What's your setup for jungle Fizz? I just bought him after playing with a dude that absolutely raped with him out of the jungle. I can't make it work...
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On February 21 2012 15:26 Terranasaur wrote: What's your setup for jungle Fizz? I just bought him after playing with a dude that absolutely raped with him out of the jungle. I can't make it work...
I bought Fizz on sale and have been jungling with him pretty much nonstop and doing extremely well.
Runes:
Aspd Quint Aspd Red Aspd Blue Armor Yellow
Masteries:
0/21/9 picking up armor, health, both minion damage reducers, cdr per level in defense and mvspd in util
Items:
Cloth Armor + 5 Pots => you need the pots b/c you have no sustain until wriggles
Skills:
WQWE R > W > Q > E
Build:
usual build is Wriggles, Mercs, Wits End, Phage, Chain Vest
then Phage -> FM
Items for consideration: hexdrinker, randuins, guardian angel, triforce, black cleaver? ghostblade?
I havent really gotten past frozen mallet or GA in any games. I bought black cleaver one game where i was like 5/0 but idk if its really all that great. Continuing on the hybrid/ad path, ghostblade seems decent b/c of the active and the cdr
Edit: also i've tried doing like philo or hog early, but it is really essential to get your recurve bow asap b/c your jungle speed slows way down after your first few runs without one.
Path:
wolf, blue, wraith, wolf, red, wraith -> lvl 4
Fizz is a gank jungler. His ganks are very good considering the amount of gap closing and damage he does. Try to line up your Q so you don't end up behind them chasing them. Make them commit to running or fighting before using your ult. And always remember to throw your ult "through" the target b/c it it will stop at your cursor if it doesnt hit anyone. His E is really flexible as a gap closer and escape. It is also really useful to tower dive by WQ -> kill -> E to dodge tower shots and get out of range.
This character has truly become one of my favorites in this game because of purely how fun he is to play.
Have fun!
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On February 21 2012 15:26 Terranasaur wrote: What's your setup for jungle Fizz? I just bought him after playing with a dude that absolutely raped with him out of the jungle. I can't make it work... Maokai runes (aspeed/armor/mrlvl/flat ap), 0-21-9
Boots+3, w-q-w-e max w, after that its up to you (q gives extra burst in ganks, e has shorter cd but less use for jungle fizz)
Wolves, blue, wriaths, red, gols, wraiths, wolves
Wriggles, mercs/zerks, wits, tank
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I was just playing him since he's free, and since everything of his puts him into melee range going ap is a shitty thing to do. Better to build some on-hit / tanky udyr/shyv build. His mobility is fucking insane, and shark is a nice initiate. The only champion as mobile as him is leblanc. Kind of reminds me of jarvan. I might actually buy him, I only tried him once in the jungle and thought he was bad, but it was probably how I built him.
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On February 23 2012 13:48 SnK-Arcbound wrote: I was just playing him since he's free, and since everything of his puts him into melee range going ap is a shitty thing to do. Better to build some on-hit / tanky udyr/shyv build. His mobility is fucking insane, and shark is a nice initiate. The only champion as mobile as him is leblanc. Kind of reminds me of jarvan. I might actually buy him, I only tried him once in the jungle and thought he was bad, but it was probably how I built him.
diving into range draws a ton of spells onto you E negates the spells
you definitely want to go AP
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What do you guys build on AP mid Fizz? I tend to start boots 3 to dodge skill shots and then from there I can't decide whether I want to stack dorans or go for cata. What is the reasoning behind the two choices?
From doran's x2 or RoA, I go sheen, cap, lich bane. games don't normally go longer than that, but I was just curious as to how everyone else was building him.
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On February 23 2012 13:51 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 13:48 SnK-Arcbound wrote: I was just playing him since he's free, and since everything of his puts him into melee range going ap is a shitty thing to do. Better to build some on-hit / tanky udyr/shyv build. His mobility is fucking insane, and shark is a nice initiate. The only champion as mobile as him is leblanc. Kind of reminds me of jarvan. I might actually buy him, I only tried him once in the jungle and thought he was bad, but it was probably how I built him. diving into range draws a ton of spells onto you E negates the spells you definitely want to go AP E lets you dodge A spell generally. Good for primary burst, not so much for any sort of follow up. And when you go AP your E is one of your main sources of damage, which means that using it to dodge does cut a big chunk of your damage out.
Personally I feel on hit and ap fizz both work as builds, but neither really feels optimal. The itemization Fizz actually wants (the WitsCap) doesnt actually exist, so both build paths just end up feeling suboptimal, even if they both do what you want them to do very well. I just never finish a game on fizz without a sort of "well that was fun but I still dont FEEL good about my build" issue.
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On February 23 2012 14:11 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 13:51 gtrsrs wrote:On February 23 2012 13:48 SnK-Arcbound wrote: I was just playing him since he's free, and since everything of his puts him into melee range going ap is a shitty thing to do. Better to build some on-hit / tanky udyr/shyv build. His mobility is fucking insane, and shark is a nice initiate. The only champion as mobile as him is leblanc. Kind of reminds me of jarvan. I might actually buy him, I only tried him once in the jungle and thought he was bad, but it was probably how I built him. diving into range draws a ton of spells onto you E negates the spells you definitely want to go AP E lets you dodge A spell generally. Good for primary burst, not so much for any sort of follow up. And when you go AP your E is one of your main sources of damage, which means that using it to dodge does cut a big chunk of your damage out. Personally I feel on hit and ap fizz both work as builds, but neither really feels optimal. The itemization Fizz actually wants (the WitsCap) doesnt actually exist, so both build paths just end up feeling suboptimal, even if they both do what you want them to do very well. I just never finish a game on fizz without a sort of "well that was fun but I still dont FEEL good about my build" issue.
E is a large portion of his total damage, yes but look at fizz's ratio's compared to the generic ratio caster, annie- fizz = 0.7, 0.35 (+%health), 0.75 +0.75, 1.0 = 3.55 total AP ratio annie = 0.7, 0.75, 0.7 = 2.15 total AP ratio
even if you take out both hits from E, fizz is doing only 0.1 AP equivalent less than annie's burst. throw in lichbane or sheen, which are core on fizz, and even without any damage from E, he's doing as much or more than your standard caster. if you can WQ in, E to dodge the spell aggro you'll incur, and then E again onto your target, you'll be doing more damage than gragas (0.9, 0.5, 1.0 = 2.4)
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On February 23 2012 19:26 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 14:11 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 23 2012 13:51 gtrsrs wrote:On February 23 2012 13:48 SnK-Arcbound wrote: I was just playing him since he's free, and since everything of his puts him into melee range going ap is a shitty thing to do. Better to build some on-hit / tanky udyr/shyv build. His mobility is fucking insane, and shark is a nice initiate. The only champion as mobile as him is leblanc. Kind of reminds me of jarvan. I might actually buy him, I only tried him once in the jungle and thought he was bad, but it was probably how I built him. diving into range draws a ton of spells onto you E negates the spells you definitely want to go AP E lets you dodge A spell generally. Good for primary burst, not so much for any sort of follow up. And when you go AP your E is one of your main sources of damage, which means that using it to dodge does cut a big chunk of your damage out. Personally I feel on hit and ap fizz both work as builds, but neither really feels optimal. The itemization Fizz actually wants (the WitsCap) doesnt actually exist, so both build paths just end up feeling suboptimal, even if they both do what you want them to do very well. I just never finish a game on fizz without a sort of "well that was fun but I still dont FEEL good about my build" issue. E is a large portion of his total damage, yes but look at fizz's ratio's compared to the generic ratio caster, annie- fizz = 0.7, 0.35 (+%health), 0.75 +0.75, 1.0 = 3.55 total AP ratio annie = 0.7, 0.75, 0.7 = 2.15 total AP ratio even if you take out both hits from E, fizz is doing only 0.1 AP equivalent less than annie's burst. throw in lichbane or sheen, which are core on fizz, and even without any damage from E, he's doing as much or more than your standard caster. if you can WQ in, E to dodge the spell aggro you'll incur, and then E again onto your target, you'll be doing more damage than gragas (0.9, 0.5, 1.0 = 2.4) Just to clarify, Fizz's E only hits once.
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yeah, you're right, don't know what i was thinking last night
either way, since my point was that WITHOUT e he does more damage than most casters, it still stands
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Guys whats the best theoretical build for Fizz, I went 24/3/10 other day and had 22k. Wasn't sure what to do after I sold my boots, think I ended up with 3000hp 780 AP not sure what sort of magic resist/armour. Anyways also QQ we fucking lost that game cause we woulda probably won in 5 minutes but someone decided to go afk.
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Ok, I played like 12 games of Fizz yesterday, I tried the tanky onhit build and the assassin AP, and while the tanky onhit works ok I feel like I would rather be playing some other bruiser like WW or GP or tanky panth. The AP build is just nuts damage and I do well diving people and getting out without getting hit.
I go standard boots/2doran/sheen/Dcap/Lich, then I usually feel like I want some serious survivability, but I'm not sure what to buy..... What is a good survivability item for fizz?
I've tried:
Rylais: I already do plenty of damage and dont really have an issue sticking on people, 500 health and paying for tons more ap and slow isnt really optimal
Frozen Mallet: I hit them so ad isnt wasted, but the item is just kinda inefficient in general if you dont REALLY need the slow, and like I said, I dont
Bveil: I like this one alot, spellshield plus trollpole is real neat, but the health is really low, if the shield get popped before I go in then I feel like I just wasted my money.
Warmogs: Too expensive and takes too long to stack when I would get it. Havent actually tried it but doesnt seem so great.
What do you guys think is the best survivability item is for Fizz?
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On February 28 2012 23:48 sob3k wrote: Ok, I played like 12 games of Fizz yesterday, I tried the tanky onhit build and the assassin AP, and while the tanky onhit works ok I feel like I would rather be playing some other bruiser like WW or GP or tanky panth. The AP build is just nuts damage and I do well diving people and getting out without getting hit.
I go standard boots/2doran/sheen/Dcap/Lich, then I usually feel like I want some serious survivability, but I'm not sure what to buy..... What is a good survivability item for fizz?
I've tried:
Rylais: I already do plenty of damage and dont really have an issue sticking on people, 500 health and paying for tons more ap and slow isnt really optimal
Frozen Mallet: I hit them so ad isnt wasted, but the item is just kinda inefficient in general if you dont REALLY need the slow, and like I said, I dont
Bveil: I like this one alot, spellshield plus trollpole is real neat, but the health is really low, if the shield get popped before I go in then I feel like I just wasted my money.
Warmogs: Too expensive and takes too long to stack when I would get it. Havent actually tried it but doesnt seem so great.
What do you guys think is the best survivability item is for Fizz?
And thats the problem with Fizz. Either build path, you end up with the "SHIT WHY CANT I JUST HAVE BOTH AT ONCE" feeling at the end of the game. The itemization for fizz just doesnt exist in the game.
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Only in normals but had success at bot with an AD range. Once you get hit 3 can do constant harass. Good times.
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On February 29 2012 00:22 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 23:48 sob3k wrote: Ok, I played like 12 games of Fizz yesterday, I tried the tanky onhit build and the assassin AP, and while the tanky onhit works ok I feel like I would rather be playing some other bruiser like WW or GP or tanky panth. The AP build is just nuts damage and I do well diving people and getting out without getting hit.
I go standard boots/2doran/sheen/Dcap/Lich, then I usually feel like I want some serious survivability, but I'm not sure what to buy..... What is a good survivability item for fizz?
I've tried:
Rylais: I already do plenty of damage and dont really have an issue sticking on people, 500 health and paying for tons more ap and slow isnt really optimal
Frozen Mallet: I hit them so ad isnt wasted, but the item is just kinda inefficient in general if you dont REALLY need the slow, and like I said, I dont
Bveil: I like this one alot, spellshield plus trollpole is real neat, but the health is really low, if the shield get popped before I go in then I feel like I just wasted my money.
Warmogs: Too expensive and takes too long to stack when I would get it. Havent actually tried it but doesnt seem so great.
What do you guys think is the best survivability item is for Fizz?
And thats the problem with Fizz. Either build path, you end up with the "SHIT WHY CANT I JUST HAVE BOTH AT ONCE" feeling at the end of the game. The itemization for fizz just doesnt exist in the game. 1. Merc Treads 2. Wit's End 3. Frozen Mallet 4. Banshee Veil 5. Void Staff 6. Guardian Angel 7. Sell Wit's-> Madred's?
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On February 29 2012 12:25 seppolevne wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 00:22 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 28 2012 23:48 sob3k wrote: Ok, I played like 12 games of Fizz yesterday, I tried the tanky onhit build and the assassin AP, and while the tanky onhit works ok I feel like I would rather be playing some other bruiser like WW or GP or tanky panth. The AP build is just nuts damage and I do well diving people and getting out without getting hit.
I go standard boots/2doran/sheen/Dcap/Lich, then I usually feel like I want some serious survivability, but I'm not sure what to buy..... What is a good survivability item for fizz?
I've tried:
Rylais: I already do plenty of damage and dont really have an issue sticking on people, 500 health and paying for tons more ap and slow isnt really optimal
Frozen Mallet: I hit them so ad isnt wasted, but the item is just kinda inefficient in general if you dont REALLY need the slow, and like I said, I dont
Bveil: I like this one alot, spellshield plus trollpole is real neat, but the health is really low, if the shield get popped before I go in then I feel like I just wasted my money.
Warmogs: Too expensive and takes too long to stack when I would get it. Havent actually tried it but doesnt seem so great.
What do you guys think is the best survivability item is for Fizz?
And thats the problem with Fizz. Either build path, you end up with the "SHIT WHY CANT I JUST HAVE BOTH AT ONCE" feeling at the end of the game. The itemization for fizz just doesnt exist in the game. 1. Merc Treads 2. Wit's End 3. Frozen Mallet 4. Banshee Veil 5. Void Staff 6. Guardian Angel 7. Sell Wit's-> Madred's? Wriggles, wits, Mallet, Atmas, madreds, some negatron item. Triforce works very well as well.
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I'm playing Fizz a lot right now an usually I am jungling.
My Masteries are 21/9/0 with both armor- and magicpenetration in Offense, I also use sprint over flash.
Just do usual jungleroute and max W, get wriggles + triforce+ witts end. Thats your core, after that you can go with whatever you want. Some good items are Warmogs + Atmas if you want to go really tanky, otherwise get a Gunblade for insane burstdmg.
I never lost so far with this build, ganking with red + W is just insane dotdmg and you usually always get a kill with it.
Try it and have fun
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On March 01 2012 11:01 Vallelol wrote:I'm playing Fizz a lot right now an usually I am jungling. My Masteries are 21/9/0 with both armor- and magicpenetration in Offense, I also use sprint over flash. Just do usual jungleroute and max W, get wriggles + triforce+ witts end. Thats your core, after that you can go with whatever you want. Some good items are Warmogs + Atmas if you want to go really tanky, otherwise get a Gunblade for insane burstdmg. I never lost so far with this build, ganking with red + W is just insane dotdmg and you usually always get a kill with it. Try it and have fun What are your runes? And def masteries?
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On March 02 2012 02:50 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 11:01 Vallelol wrote:I'm playing Fizz a lot right now an usually I am jungling. My Masteries are 21/9/0 with both armor- and magicpenetration in Offense, I also use sprint over flash. Just do usual jungleroute and max W, get wriggles + triforce+ witts end. Thats your core, after that you can go with whatever you want. Some good items are Warmogs + Atmas if you want to go really tanky, otherwise get a Gunblade for insane burstdmg. I never lost so far with this build, ganking with red + W is just insane dotdmg and you usually always get a kill with it. Try it and have fun What are your runes? And def masteries?
My runes are:
Red: flat ad Yellow: flat armor Blue: flat MR Quints: ArmorPen (Really don't know if they are good, but it works out really well so far)
I usually get a strong leash and can gank right after I finished off Lizard with 2 HP Potions left
(sorry, screwed up the screenshot before)
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there is no way that the 10% mpen mastery isn't worth it when you already have 4 in the cooldown prerequisite
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that's one of the saddest looking mastery allocations I've ever seen... you make a bunch of bad mastery choices bro
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oh lol i just missclicked the magicpen thingy, had to made them new for the screen, rest is still the same. Dunno why you think its sad, but just try it and tell again :D
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On March 02 2012 05:11 Vallelol wrote: oh lol i just missclicked the magicpen thingy, had to made them new for the screen, rest is still the same. Dunno why you think its sad, but just try it and tell again :D well, I would advocate something like this: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/mastery-tree-planner#&tree1=0-3-0-1-4-4-0-0-1-1-0-0-3-0-3-0-1&tree2=1-2-3-2-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&tree3=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&v=2
not sure what summoner is making you want the offensive summoner buff, but I would take smite flash and just skip that mastery or alternately just skip butcher and put it in there if you feel comfy with ignite or exhaust as your 2nd summoner.
bladed armor is very mediocre and I'd suggest indomitable or going the veteran's scar's path over it if you really feel like you need the defensive tree, though I'd personally probably just go 21/0/9 and take improved flash, max mana, movespeed, and improved buff duration in utility. The HP regen masteries is also really really bad.
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On March 02 2012 05:25 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 05:11 Vallelol wrote: oh lol i just missclicked the magicpen thingy, had to made them new for the screen, rest is still the same. Dunno why you think its sad, but just try it and tell again :D well, I would advocate something like this: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/mastery-tree-planner#&tree1=0-3-0-1-4-4-0-0-1-1-0-0-3-0-3-0-1&tree2=1-2-3-2-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&tree3=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&v=2not sure what summoner is making you want the offensive summoner buff, but I would take smite flash and just skip that mastery or alternately just skip butcher and put it in there if you feel comfy with ignite or exhaust as your 2nd summoner. bladed armor is very mediocre and I'd suggest indomitable or going the veteran's scar's path over it if you really feel like you need the defensive tree, though I'd personally probably just go 21/0/9 and take improved flash, max mana, movespeed, and improved buff duration in utility. The HP regen masteries is also really really bad.
yeah posted the correct masteries now, just messed up when posting the screen. I use Ghost over Flash, thats why i got the point in there
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I tried and I did well except mid fed veigar and he instagibbed me as priority target. So we lose but I will try it again.
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I prefer a 9-21-0 or 0-21-9 on jungle fizz because you can basically get it so that minions cant hurt you. Plus if you are going on hit you need to be in enemies anyway, so extra basic tank stats are welcome.
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I've been playing lots of fizz recently and I'm pretty sure that bruiser fizz loses top to pretty much anyone and it's very hard to recover when he falls behind. I'm liking tanky RoA AP fizz though. He has nothing to keep people away so he gets harassed easily so sustain is a major issue. If you can actually get someone to get into an auto battle with you you'll trade well, but anyone with a burst ability like warwick's Q or tiger udyr can just get free harass on you while you can't do anything to them.
He's great at helping out when the jungler comes to gank but I mean cmon this is solo queue.
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I just bough Fizz 2 days ago, and I suck at him lol. Right now I want to play AP, I can get kills but I feel that I am contributing to my team as much as I do if I play other AP. I go 21/9, standard AP runes. Boot 3 pots then d-rings, RoA or DC rush if I can farm much early games or get some kills. The fact that he has to jump right in to the enemy team in order to do damage is what trouble me. How do you guys play him? Just charge in with your team, find the easiest target and nuke him down? Then get out when get focus the go in again?
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I think he's a really good tanky AP 'bruiser'. RoA>Chain vest>negatron>abyssal or zhonya. But I dunno I stopped playing him. I'll pick him up again soon. He does nice damage without needing a ton of AP.
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Ruken, try fizz top as a counter counter pick. He doesn't do well against a lot of common top laners but he destroys the guys that destroy normal tops. Fizz le poops on ryze vlad malph etc top
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On March 06 2012 02:50 Caphe wrote: I just bough Fizz 2 days ago, and I suck at him lol. Right now I want to play AP, I can get kills but I feel that I am contributing to my team as much as I do if I play other AP. I go 21/9, standard AP runes. Boot 3 pots then d-rings, RoA or DC rush if I can farm much early games or get some kills. The fact that he has to jump right in to the enemy team in order to do damage is what trouble me. How do you guys play him? Just charge in with your team, find the easiest target and nuke him down? Then get out when get focus the go in again?
Nah, you gotta play him like an assasin, never charge in WITH your team unless you are overpoweringly stronger than them. You should just skirt around the edges and see if you can pick off exposed people, if you cant then make sure the fight has already started and first rounds of CC are already used. You can use your ult to help initiate though, but dont follow it in instantly.
Fizz 87560875% stronger cleaning up and fighting 1v1/1v2 separated from the main fight, as you can actually see whats coming at you and dodge it.
On March 06 2012 12:45 gtrsrs wrote: Ruken, try fizz top as a counter counter pick. He doesn't do well against a lot of common top laners but he destroys the guys that destroy normal tops. Fizz le poops on ryze vlad malph etc top
I would definitely not counterpick Ryze with Fizz, its a pretty even match in lane with Ryze not able to stop you before you hit him with snare, but if he has any experience playing vs Fizz he will play very safe and just sit back farming. You shouldnt be able to kill him....and lategame Ryze will be a goddamn nightmare to you and your entire team, including Fizz.
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@sob3k: Yeah, that makes alot of sense, I just play a game today when I clean up after team fight 2 times and net myself 4 kills. I will try to do what you said more. Maybe the habit of jungling with VoiliBear and Shyvana carry over :D.
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No fizz stomps on ryze pretty hard top lane because of how long the lane is and because of his brush control
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I actually did play a ryze top one game and absolutely destroyed him (he was around 1700). Which is funny because you'd think he'd be able to spam all over your face if you get close. I was running like 60 MR and some magic pen on runes @ level 1. I was doin my tanky AP thing. Ryze doesn't do enough damage early to trade with you/doesn't have the mana.
I'd say around level 8 or so you both start to even out and he might have cata&negatron. Your combo with ulti still destroys him but if you mess up at all or he flashes one of your skills you're boned cuz he's basically the equivalent of a right click = win champ, only AP.
If he gets enough help from jungle to stay even in farm until the middle of lane phase you're probably both on even ground. Goin to bed now, I'm in a sleepy haze so let's hope what I wrote isn't just garbled english.
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I take what I said about his top lane back. I didn't know playful trickster stopped stuff in mid air.
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My experience with fizz has been to either kill/dominate him at early levels, then at 6 he just wtf kills you even if he is behind. Mostly just my inexperience facing him but he has crazy strong burst.
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I wish more pro's would play with fizz, he is by far my favorite champ to play with. He is so fun! Plus his new skin makes me drool.
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is there some laning footage of good fizzes?
i wonder how to lane AP fizz properly sine he has such a small range.
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i got fizz yesterday because he was half off and he always looked fun to me. i played one normal game and then in ranked today somebody asked if someone could fizz against ahri and i went for it. i dominated (11-5-7) and just played another and went 7-2-4 against anivia. fizz is strong and for some reason i picked him up fast, maybe he is ez to play, or maybe i just click with his playstyle. i go ap mid, boots, 2x dorans, sheen, dcap.
you have 2 gap closers and pretty strong burst. good combo. i play it like talon - try to harass a bit at 4-5 and then get the kill at 6 with ignite and ult. i find it really satisfying for some reason to ult someone and then combo them with the rest of my skills and then the fish comes out and gets the killing blow.
for laning i try to freeze the lane right outside my tower til 4 or 5. if you dodge their harass with e and land on them, then quickly w-q them at 4 or 5 you will do at least 50% of their health in damage. this should give u the upper hand at 6 when u can easily kill them if they dont go back. if they do go back then hopefully u hit 6 first and can 100-0 them when they get back. basically dodge harass with e, its not hard to let the other guy push the lane so u can farm at your tower til u can combo them, w-q combo with e to escape is also good for early lvls.
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Which skill are you supposed to max first exactly? I always thought it should be Q, but I watched some of westdoor0204's vods and he maxes W first (WTF?!?!?!).
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On February 22 2013 14:29 Sufficiency wrote: Which skill are you supposed to max first exactly? I always thought it should be Q, but I watched some of westdoor0204's vods and he maxes W first (WTF?!?!?!).
Max either W or E, based on preference. When I play AP mid Fizz I usually harass with Q+W and use E for escape/gap closer, so I prefer to level W first, which also helps with last hitting and general DPS after the initial burst. Plus the mana cost on E is pretty high so I find myself better off with mana when I'm more dependent on W for farming.
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On February 22 2013 15:53 jliu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 14:29 Sufficiency wrote: Which skill are you supposed to max first exactly? I always thought it should be Q, but I watched some of westdoor0204's vods and he maxes W first (WTF?!?!?!). Max either W or E, based on preference. When I play AP mid Fizz I usually harass with Q+W and use E for escape/gap closer, so I prefer to level W first, which also helps with last hitting and general DPS after the initial burst. Plus the mana cost on E is pretty high so I find myself better off with mana when I'm more dependent on W for farming.
Does his W's passive DOT proc Liandry's? No, right?
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On February 22 2013 14:29 Sufficiency wrote: Which skill are you supposed to max first exactly? I always thought it should be Q, but I watched some of westdoor0204's vods and he maxes W first (WTF?!?!?!).
Tabzz does R>E>Q>W. Leveling E is hard on your mana pool but it's your strongest damage skill, and reducing the cd also helps a lot. It's also good for clearing waves after a few levels.
On February 22 2013 17:08 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 15:53 jliu wrote:On February 22 2013 14:29 Sufficiency wrote: Which skill are you supposed to max first exactly? I always thought it should be Q, but I watched some of westdoor0204's vods and he maxes W first (WTF?!?!?!). Max either W or E, based on preference. When I play AP mid Fizz I usually harass with Q+W and use E for escape/gap closer, so I prefer to level W first, which also helps with last hitting and general DPS after the initial burst. Plus the mana cost on E is pretty high so I find myself better off with mana when I'm more dependent on W for farming. Does his W's passive DOT proc Liandry's? No, right?
I checked the wiki and I still can't tell if it would work or not That being said, I doubt Liandry's torment is a good item on Fizz.
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OK I tested this on PBE. Fizz's W does not proc Liandry's, with or without W activated. Q, however, does proc Liandry's (as expected).
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Liandry's is just plain out a bad item on Fizz, we've been over this before in GD, but no poke = no good.
also W max can be good in some matchups top, and is good in the jungle, but since it's westdoor I assume it's mid, can't really get behind W max mid. you need the wave clear so you can roam, and you also need the cd reduction so you can run tp or barrier in place of flash.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 22 2013 14:29 Sufficiency wrote: Which skill are you supposed to max first exactly? I always thought it should be Q, but I watched some of westdoor0204's vods and he maxes W first (WTF?!?!?!). PDD also maxes W.
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PDD is also a top lane player there is a big difference in the merits/necessity to be able to waveclear top (and blue buff availability is a huge factor as well because W does not scale mana with rank.)
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On February 24 2013 03:00 Slusher wrote: Liandry's is just plain out a bad item on Fizz, we've been over this before in GD, but no poke = no good.
also W max can be good in some matchups top, and is good in the jungle, but since it's westdoor I assume it's mid, can't really get behind W max mid. you need the wave clear so you can roam, and you also need the cd reduction so you can run tp or barrier in place of flash.
Perhaps, but HG is CERTAINLY a good item.
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On February 24 2013 06:51 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 03:00 Slusher wrote: Liandry's is just plain out a bad item on Fizz, we've been over this before in GD, but no poke = no good.
also W max can be good in some matchups top, and is good in the jungle, but since it's westdoor I assume it's mid, can't really get behind W max mid. you need the wave clear so you can roam, and you also need the cd reduction so you can run tp or barrier in place of flash. Perhaps, but HG is CERTAINLY a good item.
it really isn't for Fizz, it just does not fit his build path in any way. It's just so importanat to get Deathcap / Lichbane combo up and running, and resistances are so important on AP melee (in my opinion) that Abyssal has to be 2nd or 3rd at the latest, and you gotta squeeze an armguard in there. Now we're talking 6th item, do I want to buy a once dead end item at 6 items just because now it upgrades into an item with slightly more ap and a useless passive (for a burst mage with 0 poke) no, I'd rather get randuins or just a void staff if I'm going to go damage.
nerfed GA, even twin shadows is more interesting at this point.
I should reiterate it's a good item on Bruiser Fizz, or it can be on top lane fizz for a power spike (although sheen at about the same price should be enough of a power boost) Also jungle Fizz where there is pretty much 0 chance of getting to 6 items, but the unfortunate truth is mid lane Fizz is so dependent on Lichbane to be relevant he has very little flexibility for build in this role.
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I've been playing a bit of Fizz top lately building him bruiser (sheen, belt, triforce, tank) and I was thinking about buying hybrid pen. runes. I've read that reds are pretty worth it but Quints not so much, better to have AD quints.
Which Quints would you use on bruiser top Fizz; Hybrid Pen, AD, AP?
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On March 20 2013 06:03 -Kato- wrote: I've been playing a bit of Fizz top lately building him bruiser (sheen, belt, triforce, tank) and I was thinking about buying hybrid pen. runes. I've read that reds are pretty worth it but Quints not so much, better to have AD quints.
Which Quints would you use on bruiser top Fizz; Hybrid Pen, AD, AP?
i play bruiser fizz top lane sometimes. If its against an AD i run hybrid pen reds, flat physical damage quints, flat magic pen blues and armor yellows. I start with 1 ward, fortitude pot and 4 red pots. Against an AP top i'll just run the standard AP fizz.
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30/0/0
Flat AP/Dual Pen/Armor/Flat MR
Ignite/Flash
Open red pot/4 hp pot/2 mana pot and steal some xp from somewhere if it's ok
Rush level 2 and red pot ignite w q for first blood
if you don't instagib, flash wq under tower should take care of it, trading fb is fine if they lose wave
WQEEER R>E>W>Q (imo but i just started playing him today)
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On April 02 2013 17:51 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:30/0/0 Flat AP/Dual Pen/Armor/Flat MR Ignite/Flash Open red pot/4 hp pot/2 mana pot and steal some xp from somewhere if it's ok Rush level 2 and red pot ignite w q for first blood if you don't instagib, flash wq under tower should take care of it, trading fb is fine if they lose wave WQEEER R>E>W>Q (imo but i just started playing him today)
ALLINCOMBO
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RIP Incarnati0n, never forget.
To add to the 30/0/0 advice posted earlier.. - go ignite+barrier. Flash is useless.
Alternative starting build to get 1ward is fortpot+3hp+1mp+1ward, which is perfectly fine since you will usually dominate your lane and you need the ward to prevent ganks that ruin your plans to play aggressive.
(www.twitch.tv/incarnati0n and watch the vods if you want to learn from #1 fizz eu. he wont be streaming again as he is permabanned for life by riot)
Oh, also the runes I recommend instead: Flat AP quints/Dual Pen reds/Scaling MR/Scaling MR
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hey - new fizz player here. I play mainly 3v3s so I have to build a bit tankier then normal (I also take e first as on 3v3 getting ganked frequently is expected). My question is, since people say hybrid reds and we really are a hybrid character - why not build gunblade? Has anyone messed around with it at all?
Thanks!
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It is early game when Fizz can shine with abilities + autoattacks. Lategame he needs to burst with his abilities, they have ap ratios, so the AD is a bit wasted. So is the lifesteal.
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Bumping this as he is a recent acquisition. Apparently R>E>Q>W max is the way to go but I have seen other varieties as well. Can anyone explain in what situations you might max different skills?
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United States37500 Posts
On August 31 2013 14:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Bumping this as he is a recent acquisition. Apparently R>E>Q>W max is the way to go but I have seen other varieties as well. Can anyone explain in what situations you might max different skills? It's either E max (standard, R > E > Q > W) or W max. You W max (R > W > E > Q, you still need E max second for wave clear) when you are utilizing E simply as mobility to get out of situations (e.g. vs Cho'Gath). E burst is immense but it places you smack dab in front of the enemy. Certain champions will punish the shit out of you if you end up in front of them willingly.
And lastly, SHARK is coming... Get ready.
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max w if you are against a melee that you can reliably trade autos with. max e if you need waveclear.
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On August 31 2013 15:43 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 14:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Bumping this as he is a recent acquisition. Apparently R>E>Q>W max is the way to go but I have seen other varieties as well. Can anyone explain in what situations you might max different skills? It's either E max (standard) or W max. You W max when you are utilizing E simply as mobility to get out of situations (e.g. vs Cho'Gath). E burst is immense but it places you smack dab in front of the enemy. Certain champions will punish the shit out of you if you end up in front of them willingly. And lastly, SHARK is coming... Get ready. I don't know what that MEEEANS (the SHARK thing)
So either R>E>Q>W or R>W>E>Q based on your above situations? Or is Q always prioritized last? Maxing Q lowers its cooldown pretty significantly but W is massive damage obviously.
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On August 31 2013 14:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Bumping this as he is a recent acquisition. Apparently R>E>Q>W max is the way to go but I have seen other varieties as well. Can anyone explain in what situations you might max different skills?
Maybe top will trade with autos more and will choose to max W, but all my games have been Mid lane Fizz.
2 Skill Path Builds
1) R>E>Q>W Farm Lane or Heavy Opponent Jungle Pressure. -Helps significantly with wave clear allowing you to clear wave and roam without getting shoved to tower. -Reduced CD on E helps get away with Jungle ganks easier. -Pretty significant dmg increase and AP scaling with E vs Q -Heavily mana starved especially if you dont get your 715blue
2) R>Q>E>W
Kill/All-in Lanes where you look to get the Fizz Snowball rolling with a FB. -Especially good vs immobile champs who are weak lvl 2-5 -You will be autoing a lot to finish enemy midlaners and trying to avoid their burst rotation/cc and reposition into auto range with E. -Having Lvl/EXP advantage is huge as Fizz. Q does a butt-load of dmg with W active, if you get ahead of your enemy midlaner maxing Q out and going for the kill every time they show their face will burst most squishy immobile midlaners. -Trouble with waveclear but since your opponent is usually dead or forced out of lane you can farm casually while looking to roam. -Does ridiculous single target dmg. -less mana costs as you mostly use autos and W to farm until later levels of E.
Ive never maxed W, I figured since people dont have sufficient HP to make the %hp dmg worthwhile to level over the base damages on E or Q. The level one active and passive from W more than enough till later levels.
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IDK what you are talking about lol Q damage is pretty bad. When you get Lichbane it appears to do a lot of damage, but thats lichbane (which is the same if Q is rank 1 or rank 5) doing the heavy lifting. W max us most certainly the best for single target "all-in" damage, but E max outshines it in mid to to waveclear + being able to carry 2 non mobility summoners.
in top lane, W max is viable as you won't get shoved as much and you might (situational) want to run Flash anyway. Also the flat mana scaling on W is really nice if you won't be getting blue buff.
I say all this knowing for a fact that both Nukeduck and Tabzz go E>Q>W so idk mabye it's for cooldown (it takes rank 3 Q in order to have Q every time E is up which is a huge plus) but it just straight up is not for damage you'd have to ask them why they do it.
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On September 01 2013 01:10 Slusher wrote: IDK what you are talking about lol Q damage is pretty bad. When you get Lichbane it appears to do a lot of damage, but thats lichbane (which is the same if Q is rank 1 or rank 5) doing the heavy lifting. W max us most certainly the best for single target "all-in" damage, but E max outshines it in mid to to waveclear + being able to carry 2 non mobility summoners.
in top lane, W max is viable as you won't get shoved as much and you might (situational) want to run Flash anyway. Also the flat mana scaling on W is really nice if you won't be getting blue buff.
I say all this knowing for a fact that both Nukeduck and Tabzz go E>Q>W so idk mabye it's for cooldown (it takes rank 3 Q in order to have Q every time E is up which is a huge plus) but it just straight up is not for damage you'd have to ask them why they do it. Q CD is a big deal if you're going to be juking a lot, but you definitely sacrifice damage to do it.
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I mainly posted to clear up Ghost's largely inaccurate post, pretty sure Nukeduck and Tabzz are more reliable Fizz players than me. That said with blue the gap between rank 1 Q and rank 5 E cd is 1.5 seconds, and while that is kinda I just don't think any amount of cdr beyond matching E is worth the damage lost from W, there was a time when I was putting points in Q at 10 and 13, then going back to R>W>Q but that time has come and gone, give me the damage baby.
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I've played enough Fizz to conclude that R>E>Q>W max is stronger strictly because of Lichbane procs and the mobility you get off of it
Nowadays I open WQEEER R>E>Q>W and rush Lichbane -> NLR item
Sometimes if I jungle I take mpen or dual pen reds, ap quints, armor yellows, and scaling AP or MR blues
Open Dring + 2 pots and take W if you can then go WEQ gank with doubles at 3
Dring Dring Sheen is opening build almost always on jungle, then go some combination of sorc/lich/zhonyas/abyssal/void/deathcap/dfg
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You guys prefer ap to on-hit fizz? I want to try some on-hit fizz before he goes off the free rotation.
I'm suprised since there's no mention of on-hit devourer fizz in this thread considering how popular it was a while ago.
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There is no discussion for nearly 2 years...
I prefer AP Fizz however, because it is much more fun, and is effective lategame compared to onhit.
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On August 11 2015 15:17 cLutZ wrote: There is no discussion for nearly 2 years...
I prefer AP Fizz however, because it is much more fun, and is effective lategame compared to onhit. Which is a bit of a shame.
Some guy recommends mallet, wits end, frozen heart, botrk, zz'rot, sated devourer on fizz http://www.lolking.net/guides/325381
I think botrk is too op not to get in general. ADC who can't use the on-hit as well get it as part of their 6 item crit builds. Sated devourer is why you'd want to do an on-hit jungle fizz at all.
But the rest is up for discussion. For starters I'd want Rylai's instead of Frozen Mallet since Fizz applies the slow with his W anyways and he has decent AP ratios but bad AD ratios.
I might want Nashor's tooth because Fizz has AP ratios instead of wit's end. I think this makes more sense with AP masteries and rune page setups because if you're going to go 21/9 you either need to commit to AP or AD but the AP might scale better with on-hit damage if you get a nashors. It does suck that you lose wits end's mr and passive though. And then Nashor's incidentally provides 20% CDR so getting FH will overcap you if you're running CDR runes and masteries.
I think ZZ'rot is overrated. Even for how infrequently it's bought. I'd prefer an Ohmwrecker if you valued tower diving that much.
TL:DR sated devourer, botrk, nashor's, rylai's, GA or sated devourer, botrk, frozen heart, rylai's, GA?
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United States37500 Posts
Not sure how I feel about Jungle Fizz tbh...
As for AP Fizz, not much has changed for him in Mid, with the exception of Morello's rush now for the mana regen and CDR. Otherwise, your core is still Zhonya's/Lich Bane plus two other AP items of your picking (usually just standard Deathcap/Void). I still prefer CDR boots over Sorc, but the latter is prob better if you do go Morello's first.
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