I picked up Riven when she first came out, and she’s constantly been one of my best and favorites. Highly mobile, innately beefy with her shield, and the ability to crush anyone who isn’t stacking armor through most stages of the game make her a great pick in top lane. There are some matchups you need to look out for, but she can bully around a lot of tops and come out of lane as a pretty unstoppable force.
Roles:
Your role is simple: Damage and Disruption. You’re not a tank, you’re closer to an assassin than anything, though less squishy and more sustained damage than most assassins.
To this end, you should be building just enough resistances to survive some damage, but in the long run you definitely want to be building things that make you hit harder, with the added bonus that AD makes you more survivable as well.
Pros: Insane AD scaling. Like, seriously insane. Ult has a stupid short CD and lets you fight harder than most people. Manaless Highly mobile Shield that scales with AD Respectable AoE damage, including an Execute
Cons: Somewhat susceptible to hard CC, since your survival relies on your shield No ranged abilities All physical damage, so Armor is quite strong against you Some very difficult lane matchups
Abilities:
Passive: Runic Blade Description: Riven's abilities charge her blade, causing her to do 5 / 7 / 9 / 11 / 13 / 15 (+ 50% AD) bonus physical damage on her next autoattack. Riven can store up to 3 charges, and will only expend one at a time. Buff Duration: 5 seconds Notes: + Show Spoiler +
Here’s where your AD scaling starts to spiral into insanity, right off the bat. Using abilities does damage, then gives you more damage. And you’re manaless. So your autos are getting AD, and then more AD. People really underestimate the power of your auto attacks with this.
Basically you want to not “waste” procs of this, so you stagger your abilities and weave in auto attacks for maximum damage.
This damage cannot Crit, but it DOES proc Lifesteal, which makes it a very lucrative stat.
Q: Broken Wings Description: Riven steps forward and lashes out in a series of powerful sword slashes that will damage all enemies nearby. This ability can be activated a second time within 4 seconds, and a third time within 4 seconds of that. On the third activation she will also knock nearby enemies back and have a larger radius of damage. All three strikes will deal the same amount of damage. Cooldown: 13 seconds Dash Distance: 260 arbitrary units AoE on first 2 strikes: 225 arbitrary units AoE on final strike: 300 arbitrary units Kockback Distance: 255 arbitrary units Damage: 30 / 55 / 80 / 105 / 130 (+70% AD) Notes: + Show Spoiler +
Kind of your multitool. It works as a mobility tool, allowing you to close gaps or run away, even when slowed. It gives you 3 stacks of your passive, allowing for huge damage spikes. The knockback disruption can set up a kill, stop a retreating enemy, interrupt a channel, or even give you a chance to back out.
A couple technical details: this will activate in the direction that you are running when you hit Q, unless your mouse is hovering over an enemy unit. The cooldown starts after you use the first activation, so you don’t need to use the next two if you don’t want to. The dash speed is roughly 475 MS, so if your MS is higher than that (buffs and Mobo boots, I guess), running is faster.
In lane, it’s more or less a one point wonder, but in the jungle, the base damage increase from leveling up lets you really tear through the small minions.
W: Ki Strike Description: Riven deals physical damage and stuns nearby enemies for 0.75 seconds. Cooldown: 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7seconds Damage: 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 (+100% AD) AoE: 250 arbitrary units (diameter) + Show Spoiler +
AoE stun and damage burst. Pretty straightforward, right? Again, there’s a lot you can do with this. The stun is short, but long enough to guarantee you a couple autos. It can interrupt channels like Nunu’s ult of Fiddle drain. With some AD, it clears minion waves really fast when coupled with QQQ.
Max first in lane when you can go more damaging. In the jungle, max it second if you can survive well.
E: Valor Description: Riven dashes towards the cursor and gains a shield for up to 2.5 seconds. Cooldown: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6seconds Dash Distance: 325 arbitrary units Shield: 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+100% AD) Notes: + Show Spoiler +
I love this ability. LOVE. Sometimes, I’ll max it first even if I don’t need the shield. It’s a dash, a shield that has good base and then scales with AD, and gives you a passive charge. It’s the core idea of Riven, a reactive ability that’s flexible in its use.
Max first if you need to absorb more damage early on, otherwise second in lane. In jungle, max second if you need the defense for ganks or surviving clearing.
R: Blade of the Exile/Wind Slash Blade of the Exile Description: Riven's sword reforms, gaining 20% bonus attack damage, extended range on her damaging abilities and autoattacks for 15 seconds. She is also granted the ability to use Wind Slash once for the duration. Wind Slash Description: Riven can activate the ability to emit a shockwave in a long cone in front of her that deals physical damage to all units hit based on their missing health. Cooldown: 75/60/45 seconds Wind Slash Range: 900 arbitrary units Base Wind Slash Damage: 80 / 120 / 160(+60% AD) Max Wind Slash Damage: 240 / 360 / 480 (+180% AD) Notes: + Show Spoiler +
A completely absurd ult and I wonder why it hasn’t been nerfed yet. “Hey, here’s a manaless champ with absurd AD scaling on everything, including her defensive, spammable shield, what should we give her?” “How about a +20% total AD steroid?” “Great, that’s not broken at all! Slap an AoE execute on that bitch and call it a day!”
Yeah, this is good. And the CD is short enough where you can basically hit it more or less every time it’s up for trading, teamfights, or even just harassing someone out of lane. The duration is pretty long, too, so you can hold on to that active until the enemy team is low for maximum results. Once you get a BT and a couple DBlades, you can 100-0 anyone with low armor during the duration with no problem.
Q first level. You can trade pretty hard with it if you start DBlade or Longsword, or you can use it to escape from level 2 ganks. Then, whether you max W or E really depends on whether you want more damage or survival in the early levels. Leveling either is a healthy boost to base numbers and CD, so take which one you need. If you’re shielding off harass a lot, max E. If you’re going in for damage and killing a lot, max W. Just switch it up by matchup.
While you’re already very mobile, Flash is what it is. Ghost would be more useful if you didn’t already have great sticking power with all your dashes and stuff, so I pass on it.
Teleport is your go-to second Summoner I think. Lets you get back and forth from lane, lets you gank other lanes (and you have good ganking prowess), and you don’t really need any help killing most enemies.
Exhaust or Ignite I guess could be situational. Maybe you need extra killing power, or maybe you really would rather have the ability to lock down someone with Exhaust. Or you need to shut down healing effects and want some True Damage. Both are good if you know why you’re bringing them and remember to use them.
I guess a case could be made to bring Barrier if you’re in a hard lane via counterpick. It can make you really beefy when coupling it with E, but I’d rather not be in that situation in the first place if I can help it.
Smite if you’re Jungling.
Masteries
Offensive is so sick good on Riven now. You can get CDR and AD and ArPen without ever needing to pick up more or less useless stuff like Crit or AS. 21/9/0 all day.
Runes
Reds: AD. I guess you could go for ArPen, but you’ll likely be getting Bruta -> BC and maybe a LW, so get AD for the early game power and scaling. Yellows: Armor. Very few other choices here. Blues: MR. Whether you bring Scaling or Flat is up to you and your lane matchup. I like Flat, since if I need MR later I can go Maw or Mercurial, but you can do Scaling as well if you don’t need MR as early. Quints: AD. Same as Reds, you want as much AD as possible in the early game to crush your lane and set you up for a strong late game.
Stats:
AD. I don’t know if I need to say anything else. Your scaling with AD is so bonkers that there’s very little else that’s nearly as good. CDR is great, because you’re manaless and get a lot of damage from your abilities. ArPen is nifty, since you’re all physical and they’ll likely build some Armor vs you.
AS and Crit aren’t that great. I mean yeah, you’ll be autoing a lot and crits with a high AD count are nice, but you’re not Yi or Fiora, standing around spamming autos. AD gives you burst, sustained damage, and survival, and then even more of all that when you hit your ult.
As far as defenses go, if you build them at all, go resists over health. Your Valor acts as a mini health bar boost, and the longer you can keep it up with Armor/MR, the more it saves you. You’ll likely not be building straight defenses, though, unless your team really, really needs you to tank.
Items
Starting:
The starting combos I think are all viable are listed here. DBlade or Long Sword look the best to me, depending on whether you want the potions or health more. Boots don’t seem as necessary, since you have a pretty decent base as it is and you have 4 dashes and a knockback + stun if you really need to escape. If you’re jungling, go Machete + potions, you can’t really do much else imo.
[Boots][Potions] Decent start, less so than last season with base MS going up around the board. However, if it’s a very hard lane, you might consider this for the potions and mobility.
[Doran’s Blade] Great start. The extra health and AD helps you win early trades, and the little bit of regen isn’t bad either.
[Hunter’s Machete][Potions] If you’re jungling. There’s really no other option.
[Long Sword][Potions] DBlade gives you a health buffer, but if you’re going to be doing more poke trading or think you’ll take harass, the Potions give you a lot more effective health. Plus, Sword builds into Bruta and Vamp, which you’ll likely buy pretty early.
Boot Choices
I go Tabi with either Alacrity or Homeguard pretty much every game. You can do some other ones based on the game, though.
[Ninja Tabi] or [Mercury Treads]/[Ionian Boots of Lucidity] I build Tabi most games now. It’s way easier for you to get MR than it is to get Armor since GA got nerfed, so masteries/runes/Tabi is kind of what you got.
You can go Merc’s if you’re in an AP lane and Hex isn’t enough. If you don’t need any defenses and you just want to be a bastard, you can get CDR boots, which should max out your CDR with BC and Masteries.
Boots of Swiftness aren’t terrible now, but you don’t really care about slows anyway. I guess you could consider Mobility if you’re jungling for extra ganks, but you’re fast enough without em anyway.
Boot Enchants Riven can use all of the enchants, so buy depending on your playstyle and situation.
[Alacrity] Flat MS is good, and remains good all the time. [Furor] Sticking power on your autos. You don’t really need sticking power, and you can’t really use it with any of your abilities. Pass. [Captain] Not really. You shouldn’t be the first in, leave that to a tank or something. And even if you are, you’re not going to be too far ahead of everyone else, you’re not the type that can run in and be alone in 5 people while your team comes up after you. [Distortion] Lower CD on Flash and Teleport. Consider if you’re using both on CD, but I generally don’t. [Homeguard] Pretty good. If you find yourself backing a lot, gets you to lane faster. If your team is pushed back, makes defending easier. And Tele/Homeguard ganks are cool. A good choice.
This literally has everything you want: AD, CDR, and ArPen. It used to be kind of a trap in S2, since Ghostblade wasn’t that good, but now with BC being a very strong upgrade, getting one early not only wins you lane, but also later on as well.
AD and Lifesteal for sustain and damage. Bloodthirster will likely be your first big item, so getting a Vamp Scepter early (if you’re not getting fed enough for a straight BFS) is good, and lets you lane and trade well.
Ok yes, health isn’t that great for you. However, free wards are. And they are free, as long as you place all 3 wards and sell it back, you actually make a profit as opposed to buying 3 wards.
That said, you’re holding on to that 490 gold until you sell it back, so it’s not always a great idea. If you can grab a DBlade/upgrade 2 Longswords and grab a Ward over getting Sightstone, that’s probably better for winning lane.
However, if you have the money and are waiting for a BFS or BC combine/upgrade, then grab Sightstone, farm safe with total ward coverage, and then sell it back later.
Core Items - The big ones. Whether you go BT or BC first depends on if your enemy has a bunch of armor or not.
100 AD and lifesteal. While BC is nutty on her, it’s half the AD and the flat health is not as good as 50 more on your shield and Lifesteal. This should be your core most games.
Amazing item. You can get the shred stacked really quick with an E-auto-W-auto combo or Q-auto-Q-auto. Either way, you should have their armor gone for more than half of your full combo and your execute.
Other Good Items - Things you’ll consider after your core. Of course, consider them before/during based on the game, but they should only rarely come before BT/BC.
If there’s a lot of magic damage, especially in lane. An early Hex (along with Merc’s) can really help win against Rumble or Elise. Plus, always good to piss off Karthus or something.
If they’re stacking ~170+ armor and BC isn’t enough. Of course, you could just stack another BC, which might actually be better until they make the passive unique.
Haven’t really played around with this a bunch yet. It’s interesting, because it’s a lot of stuff you want. A ranged slow, AD, Lifesteal. That said, it’s a lot of the same stats as BT but less. I guess consider it if you’re really having a hard time sticking to things, or if the enemy is stacking a lot of health over Armor so you don’t need LW. But even then I think BT’s extra damage would be better. I’ll build it in some more games and see what’s up.
I haven’t built this a lot, but I think it could be cool. You do a lot of AoE with your kit as it is, so doing more on your autos is pretty cool. And since it goes off AD, it does well with your Ult. Not to mention 75 AD and 10% Lifesteal are nothing to scoff at. If you want another flat AD item, you could do a lot worse.
Your other MR item. Maw gives more AD once you’ve been brought down past a certain point, but this gives more flat AD and MR, and the active is great against heavy CC teams. The sprint is nothing to sneeze at either, so get this against CC and Kiting teams I’d say.
Not the end-all-be-all defensive item it once was, but a revive and some defenses are never bad. If you needed early Armor and went Chain, this is pretty good to build it into.
I generally don’t like either of these. If you need to be really tanky, they’re good, but Riven shouldn’t be building pure tank items imo. If you HAVE to build a straight defensive Armor item, Glacial is better if you have a lot of AD to take advantage of the CDR (lower CD on shield and more armor), Omen is a better flat defensive item.
If you’re jungling, these are both great. Elder Lizard is good AD, True Damages on your stuff, and Health Regen. Wriggle’s is a ward, the proc, Lifesteal, and decent AD. I like Wriggle’s more, but I haven’t played with Elder Lizard a lot either.
Very situational. If you need a lot of early defense and MR, and no one else on your team is buying one. Jungle Riven might buy this a lot, since the jungler usually goes Aegis, but I’d still hold off on it.
Item buying tl;dr
You want AD and things that make your AD better. Lifesteal is more or less AD -> survival (which you already have with your shield), Armor Pen lets your AD ignore Armor, and CDR is “apply your AD powerups more”. I think your build should evolve with the game, but here’s a basic game build:
DBlade -> (Second DBlade)/Brutalizer/Tabi -> BT (starting Vamp if normal game, BF if you’re getting fed) -> BC -> Defensive item of choice (generally GA or Maw) -> (Sell second DBlade) LW or Hydra (if they’re building armor) -> sell Doran’s for BT/BC.
Steady build, good power, and strong presence. That said, don’t just blindly follow that every game, if you need an early Hexdrinker, or want to throw in a Chain Vest quickly, go for it.
Laning
Basics -EW Auto Auto is a good harass combo that closes the gap, stuns, and lays out a good chunk of damage. It’s my standard harass combo. From there, you can QQQ away or put them into more damage onto the target. -Watch damage poke abilities like Parrrley, Spear Shot, or skillshots. If you E towards them when it goes out, their damage will be on cooldown, and you’ll shield the poke. This can force them back, or force them to trade with you. -Learn to dance around and avoid abilities. Things like Cho’s Silence, Darius’s Q, and Jayce’s Cannon are pretty easy to bait and/or predict, and with your mobility you shouldn’t get hit by anything that you see coming. Bait them out, and then punish. -Use your ult. I used to be scared of using it in case I needed it later, but Riven’s is on such a short CD that any time you can force a full trade, you need to have it up. Ult + Ignite will either net a kill or force them to back off, letting you farm away. -Roam. You have great pushing power and high mobility. You can shove a lane and show up mid pretty easily, often helping your teammate quite a bit. -Coordinate with your jungler to shove your lane and invade buffs, especially if your lane isn’t gankable and your jungler is a good invader like Lee. -To set up ganks, wait until they’re close enough to follow up your initiate. Then, W allows your jungler to apply his own gap closer/CC. If you can manage, get your last Q behind the enemy to cut off their retreat. -Riven can dive pretty well, with ult up your shield will eat ~2-3 tower hits once you have some AD items, and you can Wind Slash people who don’t expect it if they’re low. -GO BACK IF YOU’RE LOW. Seriously. You don’t have ranged farming, you don’t have easy sustain. If you think you can get dived or ganked, just go back and miss the farm. Better than dying.
Matchups Your big issues come from harassers you can’t punish and people who out trade you. Teemo and Kennen are very difficult, as they’ll wear you down and be uncatchable. Rumble can poke at you, and then deal more damage if you go to engage. Shyvana can out trade you if she gets her armor melt on you, and is hard to lock down with her mobility. However, all of them are manageable if you get jungle/mid support or if you safely farm under turret. I find that Riven has a stronger lategame than most of them (aside from perhaps Kennen’s ult), so just try not to die. As above, you can shove the lane against them (except Rumble) and then go take objectives or gank mid
Jungling
I intend to expand this a bit, but here are the basics. You can clear pretty well, but you’re fairly squishy. Your ganks are pretty good with a stun and a knockback, and you can dive pretty well, but you’re not Malphite or Skarner. If you intend on jungling, be prepared to get middle game items like Bruta, Cutlass, and Hexdrinker rather than rushing a BT.
Final Thoughts
Riven is a good champ. She suffers from having some bad matchups and being countered by armor, but there are ways around both of those. Her late game power is great for crushing anyone not tanky, and I feel she really remains relevant all game long. Once you get a feel for using her passive and her cooldowns effectively, she can win really hard in a lot of lanes and help her team considerably.
On December 19 2012 09:18 Sufficiency wrote: Shouldn't arpen marks be stronger since she relies a lot on the base damage of her abilities?
I'd tend to disagree. With a 1:1 scaling on everything, .5 extra on autos, and the steroid on R, I like to get as much AD as possible. Not to mention that I rarely feel a want for ArPen once I get Bruta/BC, though I'd welcome any math that proves me wrong.
Edit: not to mention more AD = more shield, good early on vs scary laners.
On December 15 2012 14:05 101toss wrote: Core build: boots/2xBC/GA/2xBC
oh sorry, they fixed it
On a more serious note, when vs top nunu, you'll want to max shield instead of other skills
The same is true against Pantheon (but not to the same extreme) - level shield more than you normally would and you can absorb most of his harass.
Yeah, like I said in the OP, you really have to vary between E and W max depending on lane. Anyone who's going to do a lot of harassing, especially point and click ones like Nunu, Panth, or Teemo.
Anyone tried any Jungle Riven? I'm woefully underplayed on it (usually jungling Skarner or Rengar). I don't think Wriggle's is that good, after using it some. I think Elder Lizard is probably better, but I'm considering just sitting on Machete and building other stuff instead, since Spirit Stone feels very underwhelming. Thoughts?
Haven't played any Jungle Riven in S3, but I'd imagine it still blows. Despite the supposed changes geared toward carry-junglers, junglers still end most games underfarmed compared to solos. Riven is one of the most useless champions in the game without farm, but can snowball into 1v5 status with enough gold. Trying to jungle her runs into the same problems as, say, jungling Jax, except even more so as Jax has better base stats and more utility with his E. I also can't think of situations where you could get a gank off with Riven but can't with, for example, Lee Sin or Maokai.
Also, 9/21/0 is very good. 9/21/0 is probably better when trading in lane, especially against ranged autoattack harassers like Nid or Kennen. The CC reduction also helps in escaping from ganks, and when combined with the extra tankiness, may actually net you more effective DPS in teamfights compared to 21/9/0. However, like everything in League, this is all situational. If your jungler is amumu and the enemy jungler is shyvana by all means go 21/9/0.
On December 25 2012 17:42 Capriccioso wrote: Haven't played any Jungle Riven in S3, but I'd imagine it still blows. Despite the supposed changes geared toward carry-junglers, junglers still end most games underfarmed compared to solos. Riven is one of the most useless champions in the game without farm, but can snowball into 1v5 status with enough gold. Trying to jungle her runs into the same problems as, say, jungling Jax, except even more so as Jax has better base stats and more utility with his E. I also can't think of situations where you could get a gank off with Riven but can't with, for example, Lee Sin or Maokai.
Also, 9/21/0 is very good. 9/21/0 is probably better when trading in lane, especially against ranged autoattack harassers like Nid or Kennen. The CC reduction also helps in escaping from ganks, and when combined with the extra tankiness, may actually net you more effective DPS in teamfights compared to 21/9/0. However, like everything in League, this is all situational. If your jungler is amumu and the enemy jungler is shyvana by all means go 21/9/0.
You just not lane taxing hard enough bro.
^_^
Imo that the biggest reason carry jungle not a thing anymore and all junglers underfed. In S1 all the junglers steal a wave from each lane every time they there. Now in S2/3 all the mid laners take Wraiths, some wolves even, and then most top/bot lanes steal your golems.
Waste time on a gank and enemy laner loses 2 CS cuz they zoned by you? Take 2 CS. Imo. Tuhduh, carry jungler does the working.
I used to go W>E>Q, but once I really got my Q down I started going Q>W>E. The damage output/burst is amazing. As for harass lanes such as Pantheon/teemo/gp, I usually start with E and then try to all-in at level 3 if I can bait a blind or stun first.
As for item build, boots3 or cloth5 start (unless feeling manly enough to go dblade) -> 1 dblade -> brut or vamp depending on lane -> whichever of the previous 2 I didn't get -> BT -> BC -> LW if heavy armor or 2nd BT -> Mercurial scim
new jungle helps you clear hella fast, with decent shield you don't even take any damage on a clear. boots nerf is a buff to your gap closers when you gank.
after machete/5, rush BC. the machete upgrades are underwhelming.
compared to S2, the new BC makes it so that you aren't completely worthless if you're not fed. you're still underwhelming, but it's much better compared to S2. plus you can skip the dblades and go straight to bruta.
So Riven top 2 ward 9 pot start. Counters all the flask bullshit, lets you push and fight at will provided you have map awareness.
Kind of sad her ult is getting nered QUITE so hard. I do think its a little to short of a cooldown but its getting nerfed a lot. I dont think the hp5 will be as noticeable since Riven isnt much of a pokey champ but more of a go all in champ. I still think she will be very strong in this iteration of League.
I've been going Cleaver -> Vamp or Bruta -> Vamp -> Cleaver in lane. The build up is smoother then waiting for a BF Sword and the CDR ARP AD and Health are all strong early. Getting the Vamp gives you sustain obviously and then you get your BT. I still have been getting GA next because you have to go so balls deep. I prefer mercs but Tabi can be good in certain lanes. Randuins is very strong on her, the active allows you to stick EVEN HARDER which is ridiculous and the passive does as well. I've been ending with a Last Whisper.
so BC/BT/Mercs/GA/Randuins/LW is my go to build currently. I do not like hexdrinker on her and I would ask my team to get Runic Bulwark which they should be getting anyway if I need more MR for some reason.
Also why are we posting in this thread and not Navitars?
On January 02 2013 09:43 ninjakingcola wrote: So, if we're on the topic of smashing a flask start, I usually grab Doran's Blade and kill them before the sustain even matters.
That's because you opponents aren't respecting Riven's early strength.
On December 29 2012 03:03 Mondeezy wrote: I almost always max Q first.
I used to go W>E>Q, but once I really got my Q down I started going Q>W>E. The damage output/burst is amazing. As for harass lanes such as Pantheon/teemo/gp, I usually start with E and then try to all-in at level 3 if I can bait a blind or stun first.
As for item build, boots3 or cloth5 start (unless feeling manly enough to go dblade) -> 1 dblade -> brut or vamp depending on lane -> whichever of the previous 2 I didn't get -> BT -> BC -> LW if heavy armor or 2nd BT -> Mercurial scim
Since the nerf on W i've almost always maxed Q first since then
The new BC's shredding part still stacks I believe, and the double CDR reduction, extra health, and armor shredding saves a slot from having to get last whisper
If my team lacks a tank, I tend to get frozen over 2nd BT on the last item slot. With Warmogs nerfed, FM is looking more attractive.
On January 04 2013 01:05 greggy wrote: why would you max shield in lane when you can max q and just kill them instead (notable semi-exceptions: panth, gp, nunu)
Those lane opponents are the only ones where anybody is suggesting high levels of shield. I wouldn't even put GP on that list (EQW vs. him should be fine, E towards him when he shoots you then jump on his face and murder him. Beware jungler.) You don't really need to max it against these opponents. Level it with some discretion - once you're safe, you can put points in your other shit. But it works really well, and can be similar to Lee top maxing W - you're impossible to push around and still hit back plenty hard.
On January 02 2013 09:43 ninjakingcola wrote: So, if we're on the topic of smashing a flask start, I usually grab Doran's Blade and kill them before the sustain even matters.
That would only work if the people you are facing are idiots.
If they see you have a DBlades and fight your engagements you are facing horrible people. Someone intelligent would engage you once, force you to push lane with Q/W and then sit under tower regenning.
On January 04 2013 00:34 GhostOwl wrote: Boots - BC - BT - GA - BC - BT
The new BC's shredding part still stacks I believe, and the double CDR reduction, extra health, and armor shredding saves a slot from having to get last whisper
If my team lacks a tank, I tend to get frozen over 2nd BT on the last item slot. With Warmogs nerfed, FM is looking more attractive.
Neither Frozen Mallet nor Warmogs should be attractive to Riven. Sure health is good, because health, but you're better off with resists. As I noted above, Maw or Mercurial, Randuins or FH, GA should be defensive item considerations. Unless it's like a full True Damage team or something. If you need to be a tank, maxing E with resists, AD, and CDR is more effective and still lets you do damage. If you're just stacking health, you're useless to your team aside from a mini stun and an execute.
On January 04 2013 00:34 GhostOwl wrote: Boots - BC - BT - GA - BC - BT
The new BC's shredding part still stacks I believe, and the double CDR reduction, extra health, and armor shredding saves a slot from having to get last whisper
If my team lacks a tank, I tend to get frozen over 2nd BT on the last item slot. With Warmogs nerfed, FM is looking more attractive.
Riven stacks BC so fast it doesn't matter if you have 1 or 2. 250 health, 50ad, and 10cdr is a poor use for 3k.
Everything post GA should be situational anyway.
-Edited for # correctless, the hell was I looking at before? 0.o
Frozen Mallet garbage. If you need more sticking power and health get Randuins. Warmogs also garbage.
I dislike Maw on Riven I think if you truly need your own MR item aside from GA and Mercs you should be getting Mercurial Scepter. But I also think GA Mercs and someone with Runic Bulwark should be enough if you arent facing double ap with ap jungle or something.
Mercs/BC/BT/GA/Randuins/LW is my preferred build on Riven
I prefer Maw if I want a lot of MR early. Lanes like AP Teemo or Rumble beg for a Hexdrinker alongside your Mercs, and it's a much smoother build than Mercurial. Plus, Maw actually gives the same AD as Mercurial at only 15% health missing. But I think Mercurial is better for a pure late game MR item, especially against teams with CC.
On January 04 2013 00:34 GhostOwl wrote: Boots - BC - BT - GA - BC - BT
The new BC's shredding part still stacks I believe, and the double CDR reduction, extra health, and armor shredding saves a slot from having to get last whisper
If my team lacks a tank, I tend to get frozen over 2nd BT on the last item slot. With Warmogs nerfed, FM is looking more attractive.
Neither Frozen Mallet nor Warmogs should be attractive to Riven. Sure health is good, because health, but you're better off with resists. As I noted above, Maw or Mercurial, Randuins or FH, GA should be defensive item considerations. Unless it's like a full True Damage team or something. If you need to be a tank, maxing E with resists, AD, and CDR is more effective and still lets you do damage. If you're just stacking health, you're useless to your team aside from a mini stun and an execute.
I'll agree with Mallet, but since Warmogs gives you a ton of regen based off of your max HP I think it's an exception, even considering that Riven's shield works better with resists.. It's just so disgusting right now. GA's nerfs mean that it's really only good for the extra life, which is much more situational (depends on other team's CC/ability to corpse-camp, and your team's ability to protect you as you res. I'd prefer warmogs in general.)
Locket is probably rather nice as a cdr-tanky item for armor.
I really wouldn't bother with 2 BC's - a Last Whisper would increase your damage a lot more. I'd probably also finish the BT before cleaver, and maybe build at least part of my big defensive item too.
On January 18 2013 00:28 Gahlo wrote: Hate to double, but nobody is posting so bite me.
1. What are people doing to fight Warmogs craze? Does building normal core suffice?
2. If not, would BotRK need to be first buy? 2a. When do you make the distinction to go one way or another? At double longsword?
3. Or do you fight OP with OP and build early Randuins?
4. Or am I just still trying to make BotRK work on Riven too hard?
Req, bring it up to TROLLS if need be.
1- Build warmogs! 2- Don't like botrk, more later. 3- Maybe against a heavy AD team, but the regen of warmogs is so delicious and protects you from AP burst too. 4- Yes. Riven's AD ratios really favor building straight up AD rather than an on-hittish item like BOTRK. If it procced off of physical damage that wasn't autoattacks, it could work well, but it doesn't. BT is going to be doing more overall damage (even autoattacks powered up by your passive will be comparable to BOTRK on a high health target.) 60 AD is just so much better for an AD caster than the 4% CURRENT health lifesteal onhit.
On February 05 2013 03:31 Gahlo wrote: Thoughts on Randuins vs. Locket?
What about them? They fill different roles for the most part. Both have Armor and HP, sure, but Locket has half the armor and lower health. The actives are different, and Locket has CDR. I'd say neither should be overly prioritized on her (no AD, mainly, and health over resists), but they're situational. Omen should be bought when you need to shut down an ADC, Locket when you need an aura item for your team.
I've actually had some success going Red Pot + Pots + Ward to start in lane, go into an early brutalizer, into locket into last whisper. The biggest problem is you have to spam health pots for lane sustain, but you still do a lot of damage with Brutalizer + Your Ultimate and grabbing the early Locket is insane stats for the cost. After that, you grab even more Armor Pen with LW and you own. Fit in Merc Treads when you can. Can even be after LW since Riven is already Mobile enough.
Basically I like the early Locket because the HP, Armor help you tower dive better if needed. E'ing in, when shield breaks, pop locket, then soon after your E will be back up. It negates a lot of damage. The Hp5 helps for the sustain problem a little bit and CDR is great. Plus having that faster Locket means your team fighting should be that much stronger, since you'll provide a bigger shield since you should be a higher level.
This is of course usually against other AD top laners. (Or just AD heavy teams in general)
Ok, so I'm making an effort to actually get into ranked games this season (only been sayin that for a year :D) and I kinda fancy Riven as a go to top. From what I've read she can do well against most tops and is rarely, if ever, banned.
First. and so far only, ranked game with her ended up being a bit of a stomp after some sweet ganks from jungle rammus. Was against an Olaf, but even after being ahead from ganks, i was still having a couple of issues at first trading evenly with him. Ended up having to mak Shield first, which I know isnt exactly ideal. Partly I think it was just inexperience and constantly last hitting to early (yeah thats always been an issue with me. I suck and freely admit it!!).
But like i said, overall was a bit of a stomp. Ended 10/1/2 with only death being a dive by Olaf and jungle Elise which I got a double kill from. After that it was smooth sailing. Finished Tabi, BC then BT into Warmogs.
So whats the point in me posting all this? Well I wanted to play it safe so started flask, pot and ward. I know the manas wasted but overall I'm sure I got my monies worth out of it. I was just wondering what other peoples experiences with laning against Olaf were like? Is he overall a hard lane to play against? Or do I really need that much more practice!!!
On January 18 2013 00:28 Gahlo wrote: Hate to double, but nobody is posting so bite me.
1. What are people doing to fight Warmogs craze? Does building normal core suffice?
2. If not, would BotRK need to be first buy? 2a. When do you make the distinction to go one way or another? At double longsword?
3. Or do you fight OP with OP and build early Randuins?
4. Or am I just still trying to make BotRK work on Riven too hard?
Req, bring it up to TROLLS if need be.
In the games I've played Riven it didn't really matter if my lane opponent goes Warmogs-Sunfire. You should be on Cleaver-Thirster. At this point you might not be able to 100-0 their top lane but you can certainly 100-0 everyone else (maybe not their jungler).
If everyone stays on low armor probably a 2nd BT instead of LW. At this point you basically have a Warmogs since with ult on you're looking at ~400 AD so you press E twice in a fight and that's 1k HP.
On February 08 2013 04:46 jimthelege wrote: Ok, so I'm making an effort to actually get into ranked games this season (only been sayin that for a year :D) and I kinda fancy Riven as a go to top. From what I've read she can do well against most tops and is rarely, if ever, banned.
First. and so far only, ranked game with her ended up being a bit of a stomp after some sweet ganks from jungle rammus. Was against an Olaf, but even after being ahead from ganks, i was still having a couple of issues at first trading evenly with him. Ended up having to mak Shield first, which I know isnt exactly ideal. Partly I think it was just inexperience and constantly last hitting to early (yeah thats always been an issue with me. I suck and freely admit it!!).
But like i said, overall was a bit of a stomp. Ended 10/1/2 with only death being a dive by Olaf and jungle Elise which I got a double kill from. After that it was smooth sailing. Finished Tabi, BC then BT into Warmogs.
So whats the point in me posting all this? Well I wanted to play it safe so started flask, pot and ward. I know the manas wasted but overall I'm sure I got my monies worth out of it. I was just wondering what other peoples experiences with laning against Olaf were like? Is he overall a hard lane to play against? Or do I really need that much more practice!!!
Part of Riven's great laning is because what you max varies with what you're against/how the lane is going. You made the right call leveling shield first. I personally go Finish my BT before BC, but BC first has merit against Olaf. Riven vs Olaf is a skill matchup, leaning slightly to Olaf.
the following assumptions being made: -new passive scales linearly with levels -build path: double dorans > BT > BC > LW -ad quints/marks, 21/9/0 taking all the +AD
new riven does more damage than old riven at the following levels with the following equipment
naked: level 5 (19 vs 18) double doran's: level 8 (32 vs 31) BT: level 14 (90 vs 87) BT+BC: level 15 (115 vs 112) BT+BC+LW: level 16 (139 vs 135)
On February 14 2013 10:26 kainzero wrote: trying to math out the change on riven's passive.
the following assumptions being made: -new passive scales linearly with levels -build path: double dorans > BT > BC > LW -ad quints/marks, 21/9/0 taking all the +AD
new riven does more damage than old riven at the following levels with the following equipment
naked: level 5 (19 vs 18) double doran's: level 8 (32 vs 31) BT: level 14 (90 vs 87) BT+BC: level 15 (115 vs 112) BT+BC+LW: level 16 (139 vs 135)
On February 14 2013 10:26 kainzero wrote: trying to math out the change on riven's passive.
the following assumptions being made: -new passive scales linearly with levels -build path: double dorans > BT > BC > LW -ad quints/marks, 21/9/0 taking all the +AD
new riven does more damage than old riven at the following levels with the following equipment
naked: level 5 (19 vs 18) double doran's: level 8 (32 vs 31) BT: level 14 (90 vs 87) BT+BC: level 15 (115 vs 112) BT+BC+LW: level 16 (139 vs 135)
next is comparing BT vs ruined king blade
What about Brutalizer level 8 instead of 2x doran, and what about AD vs ArPen runes?
i'll calculate that later since my excel spreadsheet is at work, lol. i don't think any real BC vs. BT analysis has been done either. it's actually taking me a while to figure out what the best way is to graph or calculate the information.
so far the only real difference so far is that... it really doesn't make that much of a difference. the difference is at most 4 or 5 AD per hit, and if you get all 3 hits that's only a difference of 15. there's a bigger difference when you're behind, you can do around 30 extra damage when you don't have any items, but honestly damage isn't riven's problem when she's behind.
On February 14 2013 13:40 kainzero wrote: i'll calculate that later since my excel spreadsheet is at work, lol. i don't think any real BC vs. BT analysis has been done either. it's actually taking me a while to figure out what the best way is to graph or calculate the information.
so far the only real difference so far is that... it really doesn't make that much of a difference. the difference is at most 4 or 5 AD per hit, and if you get all 3 hits that's only a difference of 15. there's a bigger difference when you're behind, you can do around 30 extra damage when you don't have any items, but honestly damage isn't riven's problem when she's behind.
I think it opens options of early phage again. Especially in lanes where you want the health.
On February 14 2013 10:26 kainzero wrote: trying to math out the change on riven's passive.
the following assumptions being made: -new passive scales linearly with levels -build path: double dorans > BT > BC > LW -ad quints/marks, 21/9/0 taking all the +AD
new riven does more damage than old riven at the following levels with the following equipment
naked: level 5 (19 vs 18) double doran's: level 8 (32 vs 31) BT: level 14 (90 vs 87) BT+BC: level 15 (115 vs 112) BT+BC+LW: level 16 (139 vs 135)
next is comparing BT vs ruined king blade
have you done the math on armour pen runes now. The passive was a big reason you never prefered armour pen runes on riven.
On February 14 2013 10:26 kainzero wrote: trying to math out the change on riven's passive.
the following assumptions being made: -new passive scales linearly with levels -build path: double dorans > BT > BC > LW -ad quints/marks, 21/9/0 taking all the +AD
new riven does more damage than old riven at the following levels with the following equipment
naked: level 5 (19 vs 18) double doran's: level 8 (32 vs 31) BT: level 14 (90 vs 87) BT+BC: level 15 (115 vs 112) BT+BC+LW: level 16 (139 vs 135)
next is comparing BT vs ruined king blade
have you done the math on armour pen runes now. The passive was a big reason you never prefered armour pen runes on riven.
Assuming ArPen marks / ADquints, the "standard" offensive ad based top setup. Adjusting for current live being 20-50% and now knowing the correct scaling of the passive. Going to be snowballing so the 2xDblade won't be removed. Forgive me for hijacking the number list, I always spend too much time trying to make them look pretty.
naked: level 5 (20 vs 14.5) double doran's: level 8 (33.6 vs 27.5) BT: level 14 (105.75 vs 84.5) BT+BC: level 15 (145 vs 110.5) BT+BC+LW: level 16 (165 vs 131)
Things to take into account: The damage numbers are raw and unmitigated. It doesn't take into account her ult activation. This doesn't include the benefit of the extra 14.96 armor pen that the runes provide on the passive, and any other damage Riven will do. It also reduces your shield by 8.55 hp.
In this light, I think ArPen marks are now the "correct" choice.
EDIT: numbers a little off due to sorce issues, further # below comparing new admarks/new arpen
On February 15 2013 03:59 kainzero wrote: i wish i could post the spreadsheet but google docs is blocked at work. i'll upload it when i get home today.
here's a table: assuming you hit a full combo of stun > AA > wings > AA > wings > AA wings > AA at level 2.
On February 15 2013 06:24 Slayer91 wrote: What about when you're level 9, and level 18? Arpen benefits off your base damages, level 2 is more auto attack heavy.
Marks Only Lvl9, double dorans. 3 Qs, 1 W, 5 passive autos. + Show Spoiler +
Pen marks, at this point, fall off between 120-130. At 200 armor, they are roughly 8 damage behind.
18 will be tricky, because with BC the order in how things are done matters. Thoughts?
I feel like teamfighting has gotten worse with the change to her E. You pretty much have to have flash up to get to their backline through the disengage, and even then with ADs building mogs it's still difficult to burst them down. Am I doing something wrong? Should I just jump onto the AP?
In teamfights, you should never be one of the first ones in, whether your team is engaging or you are the ones being engaged upon. Dodge big initiates like Amumu ult, Malph ult, or Rupture with your dashes, and then once the bruisers go where they will you charge at the nearest squishy. Hopefully it's the AD, but APs are fine too.
On February 21 2013 05:11 Requizen wrote: What change to her E are you talking about?
In teamfights, you should never be one of the first ones in, whether your team is engaging or you are the ones being engaged upon. Dodge big initiates like Amumu ult, Malph ult, or Rupture with your dashes, and then once the bruisers go where they will you charge at the nearest squishy. Hopefully it's the AD, but APs are fine too.
Derp, I'm an idiot. Ignore the E comment.
Yeah, but for example yesterday I was playing with a team consisting of J4 MF Ahri Leona vs a team of lulu k6 ez malph ryze.
Id wait for J4 to initiate, and then follow up while avoiding malph ult. Ryze proceeds to cc me and rock my world while I'm trying to get on Ez, although J4 would ult him effectively blocking me out and Ez would just blink out. If I managed to get close to Ez or Ryze, Lulu would ult me and peel as well.
Idk, I just felt as if I was derping in trying to burst someone down but being either CCd or trained before I could effectively do anything. Maybe I'm just playing like a scrub, but my lane phase tends to be very good most games whilst my team fight tends to just suck either due to peels, positioning, or tunnel vision.
On February 21 2013 05:11 Requizen wrote: What change to her E are you talking about?
In teamfights, you should never be one of the first ones in, whether your team is engaging or you are the ones being engaged upon. Dodge big initiates like Amumu ult, Malph ult, or Rupture with your dashes, and then once the bruisers go where they will you charge at the nearest squishy. Hopefully it's the AD, but APs are fine too.
Derp, I'm an idiot. Ignore the E comment.
Yeah, but for example yesterday I was playing with a team consisting of J4 MF Ahri Leona vs a team of lulu k6 ez malph ryze.
Id wait for J4 to initiate, and then follow up while avoiding malph ult. Ryze proceeds to cc me and rock my world while I'm trying to get on Ez, although J4 would ult him effectively blocking me out and Ez would just blink out. If I managed to get close to Ez or Ryze, Lulu would ult me and peel as well.
Idk, I just felt as if I was derping in trying to burst someone down but being either CCd or trained before I could effectively do anything. Maybe I'm just playing like a scrub, but my lane phase tends to be very good most games whilst my team fight tends to just suck either due to peels, positioning, or tunnel vision.
CC will always be Riven's bane, and just about everybody not named Irelia, having J4 stop you sure doesn't help. Do you have a replay we could look at?
Trying to get on Ez is probably a gigantic waste of your time and health. Just kill whoever IS stuck in the J4 ult (Ryze?) or whoever Leona is locking down (ideally K6, but if you + Leona + MF can kill malph quickly, that's good too as MF won't have her AS raped anymore), as you probably have a MF ult backing you up on bursting down their front line. Also, last I tried you can [still] Qhop over the J4 wall.
Well in that situation, there were a few things other than Riven's Kit working against you. Ezreal is really fucking good against J4 because he just laughs at the ult. Ryze is super good against Riven because of his snare, MS boost, and high sustained damage (I assume he also was building pretty tanky on top of it with Glacial and RoA). Lulu is also stupidly good against divers, not even just Riven in particular.
Just a bad situation for Riven. Two things you have to look out for before you pick her which were prevalent in that game:
-Long duration hard CCs. In this case, the Ryze W and Lulu polymorph. -Slippery ADs. After your initial combo, if they're not dead, you need to stick on them. I assume even if you reached Ez, you'd get E'd away from, Lulu ulted up, and then slowed, right? That's a very bad situation for someone like Riven, you need someone with good hard CC to deal with Ez most of the time.
Looking at your match history, if that's the most recent game with Riven, that was just a really bad team to be Riven against. Your best bet probably would have been to stick around your MF and kill the Kha when he came to dive, then do clean up with your chasing and ult active.
Riven is one of those champs you just can't pick in some situations.
On February 21 2013 05:11 Requizen wrote: What change to her E are you talking about?
In teamfights, you should never be one of the first ones in, whether your team is engaging or you are the ones being engaged upon. Dodge big initiates like Amumu ult, Malph ult, or Rupture with your dashes, and then once the bruisers go where they will you charge at the nearest squishy. Hopefully it's the AD, but APs are fine too.
Derp, I'm an idiot. Ignore the E comment.
Yeah, but for example yesterday I was playing with a team consisting of J4 MF Ahri Leona vs a team of lulu k6 ez malph ryze.
Id wait for J4 to initiate, and then follow up while avoiding malph ult. Ryze proceeds to cc me and rock my world while I'm trying to get on Ez, although J4 would ult him effectively blocking me out and Ez would just blink out. If I managed to get close to Ez or Ryze, Lulu would ult me and peel as well.
Idk, I just felt as if I was derping in trying to burst someone down but being either CCd or trained before I could effectively do anything. Maybe I'm just playing like a scrub, but my lane phase tends to be very good most games whilst my team fight tends to just suck either due to peels, positioning, or tunnel vision.
CC will always be Riven's bane, and just about everybody not named Irelia, having J4 stop you sure doesn't help. Do you have a replay we could look at?
Sadly no. I should start streaming more often for that reason alone tbh.
I guess I should just watch positioning. It sucks to play like Best Riven NA in lane then play like an 800 ELO riven in teamfights lol. Then again I was having an off day yesterday so maybe my vision is just clouded.
Speaking of Best Riven NA, does anyone know why he runs the defensive masteries that he does? I'd provide a link but I'm at work and posting on mobile. He doesn't get the +30 health mastery but instead runs 3/3 in that hp5 one.
hp5 is better for your laning and mid game if you're good with your shield. You should take minimal damage from poke-oriented harass in most cases, since you can just shield it off when you see it coming and let your regen take care of it.
To be fair, Requizen, almost no champ is going to be successful trying to dive onto Ezreal with backup from Lulu + Ryze - not even Irelia. Don't even try. Ezreal isn't a super scary AD though (unless he's fed compared to MF)
With MF, setting up a good ulti for MF is priority 1 for teamfighting success. If MF is murdering their entire front line with her ulti, it doesn't matter what Ezreal and Lulu do anymore. Work on getting a good stun off when MF is trying to get her ulti off - extra damage + hold them down. If she gets a great ult off, your own ult active is nothing short of perfect to follow up on it. Riven does enough damage to kill front liners, especially if you (or MF) have black cleaver, doubly especially when you focus with J4 to take advantage of his armor shreds.
True, worth noting. That's a really slippery comp. Maybe a good Olaf could stick to him and take him down, but I think that's one of those situations where focusing the AD is actually what you don't want to do most of the time.
On February 21 2013 05:47 Requizen wrote: hp5 is better for your laning and mid game if you're good with your shield. You should take minimal damage from poke-oriented harass in most cases, since you can just shield it off when you see it coming and let your regen take care of it.
According to the description you need to be pretty low on HP to actually get the regen though, so is it really worth it if most of the time you won't lose much to begin with?
On February 21 2013 05:47 Requizen wrote: hp5 is better for your laning and mid game if you're good with your shield. You should take minimal damage from poke-oriented harass in most cases, since you can just shield it off when you see it coming and let your regen take care of it.
According to the description you need to be pretty low on HP to actually get the regen though, so is it really worth it if most of the time you won't lose much to begin with?
That doesn't mean that it's not giving you hp5 while you're at 90% though. With a shield and no innate regen outside of your base hp5 (sadly nerfed), the little bit you get is going to help you more than flat health will over time.
That said, of course health is better against burst you can't mitigate or sustained damage you can't escape. I'd wager the flat health will server you better if you're in a lane that will constantly be putting damage on you that you can't wait to heal off, like a particularly pushy Malph or Cho with their passive AoE.
On February 15 2013 06:24 Slayer91 wrote: What about when you're level 9, and level 18? Arpen benefits off your base damages, level 2 is more auto attack heavy.
Marks Only Lvl9, double dorans. 3 Qs, 1 W, 5 passive autos. + Show Spoiler +
Pen marks, at this point, fall off between 120-130. At 200 armor, they are roughly 8 damage behind.
18 will be tricky, because with BC the order in how things are done matters. Thoughts?
In the mean time, since I've gotten no responses...
lvl14 with 2xDoran, Brutalizer, BT not using ult + Show Spoiler +
ArPen marks never fall behind in reasonable situations.
On February 21 2013 05:40 Requizen wrote: Well in that situation, there were a few things other than Riven's Kit working against you. Ezreal is really fucking good against J4 because he just laughs at the ult. Ryze is super good against Riven because of his snare, MS boost, and high sustained damage (I assume he also was building pretty tanky on top of it with Glacial and RoA). Lulu is also stupidly good against divers, not even just Riven in particular.
Just a bad situation for Riven. Two things you have to look out for before you pick her which were prevalent in that game:
-Long duration hard CCs. In this case, the Ryze W and Lulu polymorph. -Slippery ADs. After your initial combo, if they're not dead, you need to stick on them. I assume even if you reached Ez, you'd get E'd away from, Lulu ulted up, and then slowed, right? That's a very bad situation for someone like Riven, you need someone with good hard CC to deal with Ez most of the time.
Looking at your match history, if that's the most recent game with Riven, that was just a really bad team to be Riven against. Your best bet probably would have been to stick around your MF and kill the Kha when he came to dive, then do clean up with your chasing and ult active.
Riven is one of those champs you just can't pick in some situations.
Thanks for the insightful post
Yeah unfortunately I was like 1st pick, so I probably should've swapped. Kha did little to no damage as he was 1-9 at some point. We largely lost due to the fact our J4 got outsmited at Baron and MF dc'd during the teamfight after, effectively closing the lead he had. I was just curious as to if teamfight wise I was doing ok or eating too much CC, but it looks like in that situation their team composition was brutal.
Ah well. Maybe ill start banning Ryze when I'm going to play Riven, haha. They always play that asshole and he always ends up fed by endgame one way or the other. Other than that I definitely will start looking at team composition before picking from now on, as I tend to just play what I'm comfortable with.
Edit: @Gahlo
So essentially armor pen runes are better in every situation damage-wise? What about with ulti up? I feel like we need to factor in the effectiveness of her E as well since you'd lose the damage scaling if you went with arp runes.
On February 21 2013 05:40 Requizen wrote: Well in that situation, there were a few things other than Riven's Kit working against you. Ezreal is really fucking good against J4 because he just laughs at the ult. Ryze is super good against Riven because of his snare, MS boost, and high sustained damage (I assume he also was building pretty tanky on top of it with Glacial and RoA). Lulu is also stupidly good against divers, not even just Riven in particular.
Just a bad situation for Riven. Two things you have to look out for before you pick her which were prevalent in that game:
-Long duration hard CCs. In this case, the Ryze W and Lulu polymorph. -Slippery ADs. After your initial combo, if they're not dead, you need to stick on them. I assume even if you reached Ez, you'd get E'd away from, Lulu ulted up, and then slowed, right? That's a very bad situation for someone like Riven, you need someone with good hard CC to deal with Ez most of the time.
Looking at your match history, if that's the most recent game with Riven, that was just a really bad team to be Riven against. Your best bet probably would have been to stick around your MF and kill the Kha when he came to dive, then do clean up with your chasing and ult active.
Riven is one of those champs you just can't pick in some situations.
Thanks for the insightful post
Yeah unfortunately I was like 1st pick, so I probably should've swapped. Kha did little to no damage as he was 1-9 at some point. We largely lost due to the fact our J4 got outsmited at Baron and MF dc'd during the teamfight after, effectively closing the lead he had. I was just curious as to if teamfight wise I was doing ok or eating too much CC, but it looks like in that situation their team composition was brutal.
Ah well. Maybe ill start banning Ryze when I'm going to play Riven, haha. They always play that asshole and he always ends up fed by endgame one way or the other. Other than that I definitely will start looking at team composition before picking from now on, as I tend to just play what I'm comfortable with.
Edit: @Gahlo
So essentially armor pen runes are better in every situation damage-wise? What about with ulti up? I feel like we need to factor in the effectiveness of her E as well since you'd lose the damage scaling if you went with arp runes.
It's something to consider. He's only doing math as it applies to the passive, of course.
I would still wager that flat AD is more helpful because of the shield and multiplicative scaling with your ult, but I'd welcome other veiwpoints as well.
On February 21 2013 05:40 Requizen wrote: Well in that situation, there were a few things other than Riven's Kit working against you. Ezreal is really fucking good against J4 because he just laughs at the ult. Ryze is super good against Riven because of his snare, MS boost, and high sustained damage (I assume he also was building pretty tanky on top of it with Glacial and RoA). Lulu is also stupidly good against divers, not even just Riven in particular.
Just a bad situation for Riven. Two things you have to look out for before you pick her which were prevalent in that game:
-Long duration hard CCs. In this case, the Ryze W and Lulu polymorph. -Slippery ADs. After your initial combo, if they're not dead, you need to stick on them. I assume even if you reached Ez, you'd get E'd away from, Lulu ulted up, and then slowed, right? That's a very bad situation for someone like Riven, you need someone with good hard CC to deal with Ez most of the time.
Looking at your match history, if that's the most recent game with Riven, that was just a really bad team to be Riven against. Your best bet probably would have been to stick around your MF and kill the Kha when he came to dive, then do clean up with your chasing and ult active.
Riven is one of those champs you just can't pick in some situations.
Thanks for the insightful post
Yeah unfortunately I was like 1st pick, so I probably should've swapped. Kha did little to no damage as he was 1-9 at some point. We largely lost due to the fact our J4 got outsmited at Baron and MF dc'd during the teamfight after, effectively closing the lead he had. I was just curious as to if teamfight wise I was doing ok or eating too much CC, but it looks like in that situation their team composition was brutal.
Ah well. Maybe ill start banning Ryze when I'm going to play Riven, haha. They always play that asshole and he always ends up fed by endgame one way or the other. Other than that I definitely will start looking at team composition before picking from now on, as I tend to just play what I'm comfortable with.
Edit: @Gahlo
So essentially armor pen runes are better in every situation damage-wise? What about with ulti up? I feel like we need to factor in the effectiveness of her E as well since you'd lose the damage scaling if you went with arp runes.
Same setup as my last chart, though with an extra auto+passive charge gained from activating ult. This doesn't include Wind Slash. + Show Spoiler +
You'll lose ~12 hp worth of shield, given that the marks only provide ~9ad.
@Req, this is all 3Q, W, and all the passive charged autos with ult active.
On February 21 2013 08:10 Mondeezy wrote: Is there still that glitch with Riven in which you can get a 4th Q out, or was it fixed? Anyone know how to do it properly?
I've seen people say mash Q hardcore, but I've never been able to reproduce it.
On February 21 2013 08:10 Mondeezy wrote: Is there still that glitch with Riven in which you can get a 4th Q out, or was it fixed? Anyone know how to do it properly?
I've seen people say mash Q hardcore, but I've never been able to reproduce it.
I think it happens when you get CC'd while using Q, and the damage goes off but the cast is still available because you got "interrupted". I don't exactly know, though.
I think Phage is a decent item on Riven, but there's too much... not great stuff about it. You don't particularly like either of the upgrades, and while the early health is fine for laning, later on it tapers off. The slow also stops being very useful once you get some CDR for your jumps and stun.
I buy it from time to time if I'm laning against someone I need a lot of health against (Irelia, for example, with her sustained true damage), but it's really super situational.
It's safe to say that Phage is almost never a good pick up. The only situation when you might possibly want it is if you fall really really far behind and need to provide a little bit of bonus utility to the team. Even then, you are just relegating yourself to near uselessness and it's possibly better to build damage and hope you can get some kills that will let you back in the game.
Also, I don't recommend watching Best Riven NA to learn, although his Riven mechanics are really good, he has poor decision making and general game sense. He also used (still is?) to be a douchey personality in game, which I guess is to be expected for a 14 year old.
On February 23 2013 05:10 Capriccioso wrote: It's safe to say that Phage is almost never a good pick up. The only situation when you might possibly want it is if you fall really really far behind and need to provide a little bit of bonus utility to the team. Even then, you are just relegating yourself to near uselessness and it's possibly better to build damage and hope you can get some kills that will let you back in the game.
Also, I don't recommend watching Best Riven NA to learn, although his Riven mechanics are really good, he has poor decision making and general game sense. He also used (still is?) to be a douchey personality in game, which I guess is to be expected for a 14 year old.
I'm not saying FM will become the new standard but with the recent changes it would be foolish to not explore all avenues. One of the stated goals of the recent change is to allow Riven to build in more of a bruiser fashion. Better to poke at the possibility for a bit than dismiss it out of hand based on precedent. For example, I've already decided ArPen marks are better now.
On February 23 2013 05:10 Capriccioso wrote: It's safe to say that Phage is almost never a good pick up. The only situation when you might possibly want it is if you fall really really far behind and need to provide a little bit of bonus utility to the team. Even then, you are just relegating yourself to near uselessness and it's possibly better to build damage and hope you can get some kills that will let you back in the game.
Also, I don't recommend watching Best Riven NA to learn, although his Riven mechanics are really good, he has poor decision making and general game sense. He also used (still is?) to be a douchey personality in game, which I guess is to be expected for a 14 year old.
I'm not saying FM will become the new standard but with the recent changes it would be foolish to not explore all avenues. One of the stated goals of the recent change is to allow Riven to build in more of a bruiser fashion. Better to poke at the possibility for a bit than dismiss it out of hand based on precedent. For example, I've already decided ArPen marks are better now.
Makes me wish Entropy was on SR though.
The recent change to her passive, while a nice buff, effectively had no effect on Riven. Until her base damage is buffed and ratios lowered there is no reason to build tank over damage. But I don't want this to happen anyway because I enjoy the uniqueness of Riven over the other generic tanky bruisers.
On February 23 2013 05:10 Capriccioso wrote: It's safe to say that Phage is almost never a good pick up. The only situation when you might possibly want it is if you fall really really far behind and need to provide a little bit of bonus utility to the team. Even then, you are just relegating yourself to near uselessness and it's possibly better to build damage and hope you can get some kills that will let you back in the game.
Also, I don't recommend watching Best Riven NA to learn, although his Riven mechanics are really good, he has poor decision making and general game sense. He also used (still is?) to be a douchey personality in game, which I guess is to be expected for a 14 year old.
I'm not saying FM will become the new standard but with the recent changes it would be foolish to not explore all avenues. One of the stated goals of the recent change is to allow Riven to build in more of a bruiser fashion. Better to poke at the possibility for a bit than dismiss it out of hand based on precedent. For example, I've already decided ArPen marks are better now.
Makes me wish Entropy was on SR though.
The recent change to her passive, while a nice buff, effectively had no effect on Riven. Until her base damage is buffed and ratios lowered there is no reason to build tank over damage. But I don't want this to happen anyway because I enjoy the uniqueness of Riven over the other generic tanky bruisers.
On February 23 2013 05:10 Capriccioso wrote: It's safe to say that Phage is almost never a good pick up. The only situation when you might possibly want it is if you fall really really far behind and need to provide a little bit of bonus utility to the team. Even then, you are just relegating yourself to near uselessness and it's possibly better to build damage and hope you can get some kills that will let you back in the game.
Also, I don't recommend watching Best Riven NA to learn, although his Riven mechanics are really good, he has poor decision making and general game sense. He also used (still is?) to be a douchey personality in game, which I guess is to be expected for a 14 year old.
I'm not saying FM will become the new standard but with the recent changes it would be foolish to not explore all avenues. One of the stated goals of the recent change is to allow Riven to build in more of a bruiser fashion. Better to poke at the possibility for a bit than dismiss it out of hand based on precedent. For example, I've already decided ArPen marks are better now.
Makes me wish Entropy was on SR though.
Personally with this tank meta I feel like you can't afford to give up any extra damage, but it may be worthwhile depending on your playstyle. I'd be interested in seeing the damage numbers as compared to getting another BT, as well as effective health difference between the flat HP of FM vs the added life steal and shield value of another BT, assuming the same combo rotation and autos landed.
On February 23 2013 05:10 Capriccioso wrote: It's safe to say that Phage is almost never a good pick up. The only situation when you might possibly want it is if you fall really really far behind and need to provide a little bit of bonus utility to the team. Even then, you are just relegating yourself to near uselessness and it's possibly better to build damage and hope you can get some kills that will let you back in the game.
Also, I don't recommend watching Best Riven NA to learn, although his Riven mechanics are really good, he has poor decision making and general game sense. He also used (still is?) to be a douchey personality in game, which I guess is to be expected for a 14 year old.
I'm not saying FM will become the new standard but with the recent changes it would be foolish to not explore all avenues. One of the stated goals of the recent change is to allow Riven to build in more of a bruiser fashion. Better to poke at the possibility for a bit than dismiss it out of hand based on precedent. For example, I've already decided ArPen marks are better now.
Makes me wish Entropy was on SR though.
Personally with this tank meta I feel like you can't afford to give up any extra damage, but it may be worthwhile depending on your playstyle. I'd be interested in seeing the damage numbers as compared to getting another BT, as well as effective health difference between the flat HP of FM vs the added life steal and shield value of another BT, assuming the same combo rotation and autos landed.
I'm not looking at FM as a replacement for BT, but as another option for other slots.
On February 23 2013 05:10 Capriccioso wrote: It's safe to say that Phage is almost never a good pick up. The only situation when you might possibly want it is if you fall really really far behind and need to provide a little bit of bonus utility to the team. Even then, you are just relegating yourself to near uselessness and it's possibly better to build damage and hope you can get some kills that will let you back in the game.
Also, I don't recommend watching Best Riven NA to learn, although his Riven mechanics are really good, he has poor decision making and general game sense. He also used (still is?) to be a douchey personality in game, which I guess is to be expected for a 14 year old.
I'm not saying FM will become the new standard but with the recent changes it would be foolish to not explore all avenues. One of the stated goals of the recent change is to allow Riven to build in more of a bruiser fashion. Better to poke at the possibility for a bit than dismiss it out of hand based on precedent. For example, I've already decided ArPen marks are better now.
Makes me wish Entropy was on SR though.
Personally with this tank meta I feel like you can't afford to give up any extra damage, but it may be worthwhile depending on your playstyle. I'd be interested in seeing the damage numbers as compared to getting another BT, as well as effective health difference between the flat HP of FM vs the added life steal and shield value of another BT, assuming the same combo rotation and autos landed.
I'm not looking at FM as a replacement for BT, but as another option for other slots.
Ah ok. Usually my final build consists of mercs, 2x BT, LW, BC, and GA or Warmogs so that's what I was getting at. Sometimes switch out one BT for BoTRk
On February 23 2013 05:10 Capriccioso wrote: It's safe to say that Phage is almost never a good pick up. The only situation when you might possibly want it is if you fall really really far behind and need to provide a little bit of bonus utility to the team. Even then, you are just relegating yourself to near uselessness and it's possibly better to build damage and hope you can get some kills that will let you back in the game.
Also, I don't recommend watching Best Riven NA to learn, although his Riven mechanics are really good, he has poor decision making and general game sense. He also used (still is?) to be a douchey personality in game, which I guess is to be expected for a 14 year old.
I'm not saying FM will become the new standard but with the recent changes it would be foolish to not explore all avenues. One of the stated goals of the recent change is to allow Riven to build in more of a bruiser fashion. Better to poke at the possibility for a bit than dismiss it out of hand based on precedent. For example, I've already decided ArPen marks are better now.
Makes me wish Entropy was on SR though.
The recent change to her passive, while a nice buff, effectively had no effect on Riven. Until her base damage is buffed and ratios lowered there is no reason to build tank over damage. But I don't want this to happen anyway because I enjoy the uniqueness of Riven over the other generic tanky bruisers.
This is why nobody tries anything new in league.
I have tried phage/Fmallet in the past, whether as a first item or a mid/late game item it's suboptimal. In fact, mallet is not a good item right now for almost every champion. I'm not against innovation but some things are just bad.
On February 23 2013 05:10 Capriccioso wrote: It's safe to say that Phage is almost never a good pick up. The only situation when you might possibly want it is if you fall really really far behind and need to provide a little bit of bonus utility to the team. Even then, you are just relegating yourself to near uselessness and it's possibly better to build damage and hope you can get some kills that will let you back in the game.
Also, I don't recommend watching Best Riven NA to learn, although his Riven mechanics are really good, he has poor decision making and general game sense. He also used (still is?) to be a douchey personality in game, which I guess is to be expected for a 14 year old.
I'm not saying FM will become the new standard but with the recent changes it would be foolish to not explore all avenues. One of the stated goals of the recent change is to allow Riven to build in more of a bruiser fashion. Better to poke at the possibility for a bit than dismiss it out of hand based on precedent. For example, I've already decided ArPen marks are better now.
Makes me wish Entropy was on SR though.
The recent change to her passive, while a nice buff, effectively had no effect on Riven. Until her base damage is buffed and ratios lowered there is no reason to build tank over damage. But I don't want this to happen anyway because I enjoy the uniqueness of Riven over the other generic tanky bruisers.
This is why nobody tries anything new in league.
I have tried phage/Fmallet in the past, whether as a first item or a mid/late game item it's suboptimal. In fact, mallet is not a good item right now for almost every champion. I'm not against innovation but some things are just bad.
Either way, things changed so it was worth looking into again. Still isn't worth it though.
It frustrates me that while AD and Health had their Gold costs reduced overall, Phage went UP in price by a huge amount for such an early game item. I almost never feel like Phage is worth getting early anymore, on anyone. Riven, who never REALLY liked it in the first place, is unlikely to be an exception.
I'm really happy with early brutalizer even more than I was before with the passive change, even though it's not a significant change to her build. I don't feel that Riven can be like Renekton and be powerful by building super tanky, though.
On February 26 2013 23:24 sylverfyre wrote: It frustrates me that while AD and Health had their Gold costs reduced overall, Phage went UP in price by a huge amount for such an early game item. I almost never feel like Phage is worth getting early anymore, on anyone. Riven, who never REALLY liked it in the first place, is unlikely to be an exception.
I'm really happy with early brutalizer even more than I was before with the passive change, even though it's not a significant change to her build. I don't feel that Riven can be like Renekton and be powerful by building super tanky, though.
Xypherous was under the impression that Phage was op.
Hm. I'm wondering if I should take back what I said about not feeling that Riven can be powerful as tanky. With your passive scaling more on level now, what if you just had runes+brutalizer -> tankiness? I'm thinking Brutalizer + Locket as the core. Could see Zeke's being a good pickup now too.
General idea is getting more of your offense from CDR (and some armor pen) and being able to sit on somebody's face while laughing at their damage with your ultra-low cd shield.
i was doing brutalizer locket riven for a while since wriggles got nerfed in s3 but i discovered jungle xin so i stopped. it wasnt weak but you lack engage with is what most people rely on a jungler for another reason why im not playing a lot of jungle nasus even though i think its strong
i played almost purely jungle nasus and udyr since s1 and being able to play shit like amumu and xin with hard engage feels so good
On February 28 2013 02:33 Slayer91 wrote: i was doing brutalizer locket riven for a while since wriggles got nerfed in s3 but i discovered jungle xin so i stopped. it wasnt weak but you lack engage with is what most people rely on a jungler for another reason why im not playing a lot of jungle nasus even though i think its strong
i played almost purely jungle nasus and udyr since s1 and being able to play shit like amumu and xin with hard engage feels so good
On February 28 2013 02:33 Slayer91 wrote: i was doing brutalizer locket riven for a while since wriggles got nerfed in s3 but i discovered jungle xin so i stopped. it wasnt weak but you lack engage with is what most people rely on a jungler for another reason why im not playing a lot of jungle nasus even though i think its strong
i played almost purely jungle nasus and udyr since s1 and being able to play shit like amumu and xin with hard engage feels so good
Oh I meant it on lane Riven. People don't expect hard engage from their top laner, especially if the jungler has it and you can follow them in. I guess if you're getting tankier on riven you want to share the initiation though, which Riven doesn't excel at?
getting tankier doesnt have a lot to do with initation you're a melee champ and against most teams you need to be tanky to survive. If you go pure damage and sit with your support ad and ap you wont be able to do shit and your initiator will just die.
On March 16 2013 08:26 swim224 wrote: Can anyone explain to me how to play vs singed? It's my hardest matchup atm.
Stun out ranges fling if he ever tries to run at you, shield is strong against poison. Obviously, an early Hexdrinker helps too. Early aggression can cause you to deny him pretty well.
Hmm why not do that with red pot and just use red pot on golems and brush camp while 2 minions die then come out swinging. Would clear golems faster and give you a stronger level 2 all in
On April 07 2013 00:38 Bladeorade wrote: Hmm why not do that with red pot and just use red pot on golems and brush camp while 2 minions die then come out swinging. Would clear golems faster and give you a stronger level 2 all in
Lifted it from a lolking guide that only suggests boots3, cloth5, and LS2 as starts iirc. So... not the best quality. He's also wrong about minion count. It's 3, but he gets into xp range the the lane kills one.
I think I may try it with red pot start, you could also run AD reds quints and armor yellows blues depending on your top matchup to take a little less damage... min max that ish and cheese people top lane hue
On April 07 2013 05:31 Bladeorade wrote: I think I may try it with red pot start, you could also run AD reds quints and armor yellows blues depending on your top matchup to take a little less damage... min max that ish and cheese people top lane hue
Last I checked, minmaxed jungle damage on non-buff was 6ArPen 3 AD marks. I would seriously suggest practicing it for a while, screwing up and losing your stacks before the spawn kills your attempt. Most likely you, aswell, if you try and go through with it anyway.
On April 07 2013 05:59 Bladeorade wrote: All AD is best on riven, everything on her scales with it and then scales with it twice when you use ulti.
I did some math a while ago on ArPen marks when they changed her passive. The only real benefit she gets from AD marks is ~10 more shield strength. ArPen provides more damage. It's somewhere in the thread.
On April 07 2013 05:59 Bladeorade wrote: All AD is best on riven, everything on her scales with it and then scales with it twice when you use ulti.
I did some math a while ago on ArPen marks when they changed her passive. The only real benefit she gets from AD marks is ~10 more shield strength. ArPen provides more damage. It's somewhere in the thread.
So Q damage, W damage, R damage and R % scaling doesnt count?
Or do you mean that the ARP is even in damage with AD marks on QW and R damage?
On April 07 2013 05:59 Bladeorade wrote: All AD is best on riven, everything on her scales with it and then scales with it twice when you use ulti.
I did some math a while ago on ArPen marks when they changed her passive. The only real benefit she gets from AD marks is ~10 more shield strength. ArPen provides more damage. It's somewhere in the thread.
So Q damage, W damage, R damage and R % scaling doesnt count?
Or do you mean that the ARP is even in damage with AD marks on QW and R damage?
It counts, but the ArPen makes up for it and then some. It was always the passive that held the ArPen marks back.
On May 24 2013 04:46 FinestHour wrote: so i got crushed in lane against darius, anyone have any suggestions how to lane against him?
Don't fight him 1v1. You only win in short engagements and you can't make those happen unless Apprehend is down. Try to Valor Decimate and focus on farming. He is very susceptible to ganks to try and get your jungler to help you.
In soloqueue you can take advantage of peoples PTSD of fed Darius by framing it as "If we gank him a lot we can shut him down" instead of "I need jungle help."
You have to play defensive vs. Darius. Fight near your turret or knock him into it, use Valor to dodge his Q and E, take defensive items at start (like Cloth Armor + 5 HP pots), and you start with taking E or Q. If you are looking to kill him you either need to fight next to your turret or get help from your Jungler, as 1v1 you can't really stand up to him. Don't let him bait out E, or you'll get punished while it's on cooldown.
On May 24 2013 04:46 FinestHour wrote: so i got crushed in lane against darius, anyone have any suggestions how to lane against him?
Cheese him at level 2 with a big red pot ...........pre patch 3.08 this meant getting wolves/wraiths, rushing to lane and semi push it so you get to level2 before he does.
The moment you have 1 creep left before level2, and that creep is dying in 2 seconds, pop the red pot buff and charge in with your Q A Q A combo while igniting him, ctrl W to skill your stun asap, pop him if he tries to run. If successful you should be able to flat out kill him. Proceed to snowball as riven as you will hit level 3 before he hits level2, level 6 before he hits level 4 etc etc...
Post patch 3.08 this strategy is probably more stable since wolves start no longer is better than wraith start (no early jungle rush allowed with the 1:55 flat on all), just semi push early and have creep advantage over him.
Be careful attempting this since Darius can cheese too. Check if he has big red pot or not.
Otherwise just get your jungler to camp him, gain level + gold advantage then just snowball the lane. This means starting out with two reju beads and sustains/wards. If you absolutely want, go with barrier+ignite combo. Flash is great if you can beat your lane and need more mobility, while barrier on riven is great for counter picks (hard trades). Ignite is a must with the passive +5 tho
Remember, his Q does less damage if you stand right next to him. If his Q missed you (managed to trick him out), punish him with your combo immediately and save one or two dashes for disengage.
On May 24 2013 04:46 FinestHour wrote: so i got crushed in lane against darius, anyone have any suggestions how to lane against him?
Don't go top. Mid Riven is much better. Run away from the big bad scary bruisers.
Been playing with mid Riven too...havent had this much fun for quite a while...The amount of pressure you can put on the squishy mids once you hit level2 and level 3 is ridiculous.
I cannot for the life of me jump those damn walls as riven. How exactly do you jump those? Be at the edge while also facing the right direction, right click over the wall just as you press Q or something?
Actually having problems with pro monkey king players....he hits fuuuuucking hard, has dash has crazy knock up and can be invisible....complete nightmare to deal with...then again it was a chinese diamond I and I was level 25
Feels like OP needs a small update on the black cleaver - its just not that good :/. Brutalizer is amazing 100% positive and a must buy first item, but after bloodthirsters there are just better items rather than upgrading the brutalizer to black cleaver (hexdrinker, last whisper, GA, another bloodthirster, hydra, boots...)...and that policy remains the same until you have 6 items already and the brutalizer is facing the fate of being sold rather than upgraded.
Or maybe I need to buy one and see for myself :/ I realize AD skills also set off the black cleaver passive stacks
Bruta is good, BC is decent, but yeah I think that the only items you can really consider "core" on Riven is BT+LW. In some match ups you can honestly go vamp straight into LW instead of getting early bruta imo. Every item other than BT+LW is situational as far as I'm concerned.
Bruta is good, BC is decent, but yeah I think that the only items you can really consider "core" on Riven is BT+LW. In some match ups you can honestly go vamp straight into LW instead of getting early bruta imo. Every item other than BT+LW is situational as far as I'm concerned.
Wall jumps are so finicky I don't even bother to learn them because I know I'll always botch them. Yeah, the OP could use an update. It hasn't been touched since last year but the thread moves so slow.
I feel like the thread moves so slow because Riven's not really played too often in the meta. Not to mention that her item loadout hasn't changed much. I mean, you basically go BT + LW, then everything else is situational. Did you win hard in your lane and are snowballing? IE + BC + Hydra. No one on your team going tanky and you need to have that sustain in the team fights, or break even or lose in your lane? Runic + Frozen Mallet.
As for shoes, it's basically either Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi, based upon what the enemy team composition is (lots of AP/CC skills vs. AD teams). The 6th item will vary as well, but GA, Randuin's, Maw or Mercurial Scimitar (for AP teams) can also do well. And the enchantment on the shoes will be either Homeguard, Furor, or Alacrity (or Captain's if you are looking to be a team player).
On June 21 2013 06:31 caradoc wrote: I'm so annoyed at her new splash art. They'd damn well better fix it before it's released. Looks like an emo tramp.
Idk, Riven always seemed a pretty emo character to me. Part of why I like her, actually.
I've been seeing quite a bit of success with BC first along with grabbing Lucidity boots, the CD reduction, health, and % armor shred are incredible for playing a champ with Riv's kit. Bloothirster is still a core grab, but I haven't seen much issues for putting it off, the CD reduction is worth it.
On June 21 2013 06:25 Kinie wrote: I feel like the thread moves so slow because Riven's not really played too often in the meta. Not to mention that her item loadout hasn't changed much. I mean, you basically go BT + LW, then everything else is situational. Did you win hard in your lane and are snowballing? IE + BC + Hydra. No one on your team going tanky and you need to have that sustain in the team fights, or break even or lose in your lane? Runic + Frozen Mallet.
As for shoes, it's basically either Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi, based upon what the enemy team composition is (lots of AP/CC skills vs. AD teams). The 6th item will vary as well, but GA, Randuin's, Maw or Mercurial Scimitar (for AP teams) can also do well. And the enchantment on the shoes will be either Homeguard, Furor, or Alacrity (or Captain's if you are looking to be a team player).
whats preventing her from being played? is she outclassed by better top laners
On June 21 2013 06:25 Kinie wrote: I feel like the thread moves so slow because Riven's not really played too often in the meta. Not to mention that her item loadout hasn't changed much. I mean, you basically go BT + LW, then everything else is situational. Did you win hard in your lane and are snowballing? IE + BC + Hydra. No one on your team going tanky and you need to have that sustain in the team fights, or break even or lose in your lane? Runic + Frozen Mallet.
As for shoes, it's basically either Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi, based upon what the enemy team composition is (lots of AP/CC skills vs. AD teams). The 6th item will vary as well, but GA, Randuin's, Maw or Mercurial Scimitar (for AP teams) can also do well. And the enchantment on the shoes will be either Homeguard, Furor, or Alacrity (or Captain's if you are looking to be a team player).
whats preventing her from being played? is she outclassed by better top laners
She's designed as a "light fighter" as Riot puts it, which makes it difficult for people to pick her up and learn without getting punched in the face over, and over, and over.
On June 21 2013 06:25 Kinie wrote: I feel like the thread moves so slow because Riven's not really played too often in the meta. Not to mention that her item loadout hasn't changed much. I mean, you basically go BT + LW, then everything else is situational. Did you win hard in your lane and are snowballing? IE + BC + Hydra. No one on your team going tanky and you need to have that sustain in the team fights, or break even or lose in your lane? Runic + Frozen Mallet.
As for shoes, it's basically either Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi, based upon what the enemy team composition is (lots of AP/CC skills vs. AD teams). The 6th item will vary as well, but GA, Randuin's, Maw or Mercurial Scimitar (for AP teams) can also do well. And the enchantment on the shoes will be either Homeguard, Furor, or Alacrity (or Captain's if you are looking to be a team player).
I think Riven's item options are fine. Not many champions have expansive lists of items that they can use. Hydra is more a luxury item on her.
On June 21 2013 06:25 Kinie wrote: I feel like the thread moves so slow because Riven's not really played too often in the meta. Not to mention that her item loadout hasn't changed much. I mean, you basically go BT + LW, then everything else is situational. Did you win hard in your lane and are snowballing? IE + BC + Hydra. No one on your team going tanky and you need to have that sustain in the team fights, or break even or lose in your lane? Runic + Frozen Mallet.
As for shoes, it's basically either Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi, based upon what the enemy team composition is (lots of AP/CC skills vs. AD teams). The 6th item will vary as well, but GA, Randuin's, Maw or Mercurial Scimitar (for AP teams) can also do well. And the enchantment on the shoes will be either Homeguard, Furor, or Alacrity (or Captain's if you are looking to be a team player).
whats preventing her from being played? is she outclassed by better top laners
If you want AoE damage you'd pick Kennen or Rumble.
If you want a lane bully you'd pick Jayce.
If you want an assassin you can pick Zed, Kha'Zix, or Diana.
Riven's still really strong though. I think the nerf to GA hurt her more than it hurt any other champion in the game. I used to build GA as third item on her. Not to mention Riven got nerfed as well. Still really good in solo queue but I think she takes a bit more knowledge/skill than 80-90% of the champs in this game. I mean, I don't think any champion in League is all that hard to play but Riven is definitely harder than most other champions imo.
ranged champs are very dominant right now meaning having a melee who's squishy but has great dps and sustained fight potential isn't much good because you just get insta bursted if you try to get in range
meanwhile aoe engage like kennen or burst one champ down like an assassins work much better aganst the ranged poke stuff with elise and jayce and such like
if bruisery champs become more popular suddenly the short-hop mobility and spammable shield make her a lot harder to kill and she can get in range to do damage and lifesteal all the time
yesterday evening I supped in a diamond I ranked game, we had a kennen top vs a riven.
20 minutes into the game, riven was 14/0 and oneshoted everybody with insane mobility and a 500 hp shield (my poor lulu included, even tho we won the lane )
So yeah I think she's still decent if people derp a bit against her she still snowballs. But thanks to this game I learned that : [Kennen] : Riven beats kennen 1v1
He must be bad kennen.Riven shouldnt be able to kill kennen unless kennen uses his E stupidly.Kennen can both use E and stun you whenever you try to reach him.
On June 21 2013 06:25 Kinie wrote: I feel like the thread moves so slow because Riven's not really played too often in the meta. Not to mention that her item loadout hasn't changed much. I mean, you basically go BT + LW, then everything else is situational. Did you win hard in your lane and are snowballing? IE + BC + Hydra. No one on your team going tanky and you need to have that sustain in the team fights, or break even or lose in your lane? Runic + Frozen Mallet.
As for shoes, it's basically either Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi, based upon what the enemy team composition is (lots of AP/CC skills vs. AD teams). The 6th item will vary as well, but GA, Randuin's, Maw or Mercurial Scimitar (for AP teams) can also do well. And the enchantment on the shoes will be either Homeguard, Furor, or Alacrity (or Captain's if you are looking to be a team player).
whats preventing her from being played? is she outclassed by better top laners
Jungle Riven is not good because of lack of gold to scale.
Top Riven is not good because most matchups are bad, 2v1s are also bad.
ADC Riven is very interesting and possibly viable although being behind on levels sucks. In teamfights the Physical dps + control Riven provides could possibly replace the presence of a ranged AD. A serious disadvantage is the lack of a ranged AD to poke down towers. This might be able to be mitigated through a pick like TF.
Mid Riven is probably the best; can free-farm at the least against vast majority of mids, if not advantaged. Problem is lack of ranged waveclear which the mid position usually provides. Ranged waveclear is actually really critical to any team comp I'd say. The quote by Chauster that only creep waves and towers matter in this game has much truth to it.
I would like to see a professional game with a team comp like Kennen top, Riven mid, Amumu/Graves/Sona. These are good teammates for Riven because of magic dmg, aoe burst/cc, and initiation so Riven can go in as a melee squishy and not die or be forced out of the fight. But even this would run into the aforementioned ranged waveclear problem. A somewhat unconventional pick like Diana top could supplant instead.
If the best mid players have seriously considered Riven and she is still not part of the meta I would believe it is because of the innate lack of ranged waveclear and the specific team comps you would be forced into to fulfill that role.
rivens need to scale is kinda overblown tbh, she does great damage anyway and as a jungle you have a bigger threat top to soak some of the focus so you don't need to insta burst someone
I disagree, her base damage is unimpressive without the AD ratios from items. Conventional junglers provide more gank threat or more utility with no items.
you can have damage from stuff liek brutalizer and hexdrinker and good cdr from locket for example and have pretty decent AD, easily enough to burst a squishy but you can abuse your good damage early on in the game in fights instead of laning top vs someone who you don't lane well vs and then going into teamfights when you don't want to get insta killed
jungle isnt even that far behind top farm anyway, we're talking 1k, and 1-2 levels, unless you rape your lane or something if you get fed as jungle you're going to do better gold wise
From my experience, if you only have mid-tier items like those, you are going to be pretty useless in teamfights. It's not enough to burst a squishy efficiently unless they are wayyy out of position, in which case like any other jungler could have also capitalized on that.
dunno, id have to start playing riven jungle again, how much have you actually tried it?
rivens E is a better version of udyrs W at rank 5, she has a decent stun like him, and her Q and R combo provide cc and nuke more than he does
the only reason udyr is played is because of how fast he farms, his damage without items really isnt much better than rivens so I think riven jungle might deserve more attention well also udyr has 250 ish more base hp at level 18 and 15 more armour
I also think riven players focus way too much on damage items when her base damages really arent that bad for a bruiser and her shield means she scales really well off resists and some buffer hp and not just AD. (her level 18 burst is something like 400 Q,(more because of ult increasing all damage) ~200 W, and frmo ~200 to ~500 on R, which is more or similar to most bruisers who have good burst (irelia j4 etc)
On June 22 2013 02:47 Slayer91 wrote: dunno, id have to start playing riven jungle again, how much have you actually tried it?
rivens E is a better version of udyrs W at rank 5, she has a decent stun like him, and her Q and R combo provide cc and nuke more than he does
the only reason udyr is played is because of how fast he farms, his damage without items really isnt much better than rivens so I think riven jungle might deserve more attention well also udyr has 250 ish more base hp at level 18 and 15 more armour
I also think riven players focus way too much on damage items when her base damages really arent that bad for a bruiser and her shield means she scales really well off resists and some buffer hp and not just AD. (her level 18 burst is something like 400 Q,(more because of ult increasing all damage) ~200 W, and frmo ~200 to ~500 on R, which is more or similar to most bruisers who have good burst (irelia j4 etc)
I'm still pining for an AD/armor item that isn't Crapma's.
Udyr is not what I would consider a top tier jungler, don't think can even say that he is "played." He is unimpressive in solo queue, and I can't think of the last time I saw udyr jungle in pro play.
Her shield doesn't make her tanky enough to even be considered a bruiser. As a Melee, it is easy to get CCed, and then your shield doesn't even matter if you get bursted in the duration because of your low base tankiness. If you try to prioritize building resists over damage then you aren't as useful a tanky jungler building tank. Because you have a hard time reaching backlines , you won't do enough damage, your CC doesn't compare to those of tanky junglers, and you certainly don't tank. You don't really do anything at all. I have lost many teamfights and games when I even just had BT + GA or other defensive item instead of BT + LW.
If I can't convince you or anyone reading, of course you don't have to listen to some guy on a forum, thinking for oneself and testing things out in practice is a good attitude toi have.
Edit: Also you have to keep in mind that because of the lack of a true gap closer, you cannot evaluate the base damage on the same scale as bruisers with gap closers.
I think riven still plays best in top lane.Riven needs to snowball and needs a lot of cs to be effective.You wont get those in jungle. What I hate most about riven is if enemy jungler camps your lane you will most likely be useless all game.Riven has to win his lane to be effective.There are champions that do rivens job without having to winning lane and snowball every game.
I used to jungle riven quite a bit, did it again today.
-First clear is weak, use all pots + still low hp -Low base stats hurt because you want some damage and you're a melee -Early level cds are high
However: -Great early/mid fighting power -Clears like a motherfucker (no cs issues at all after madreds for sure, wriggles isnt bad but not sure lifesteal is optimal) -No shortage of viable items to beef your AD (hexdrinker, brutalizer, LW, wriggles, spirit of the elder lizard perhaps)
I think the main problem is not being able to get BT, but honestly you didn't have that easy a time on riven if you didnt win your lane top anyway, and considering how hard it is to win lane against some of these guys top (kennen jayce elise god damn it dat harass) I think jungling is reasonable. Still doesn't solve the problem of riven excelling against shorter range comps so she can use her mobility both offensively and defensively at the same time and avoid focus fire and having plenty of targets. I think Vi is definitely superior as a jungler right now, and probaly Fiora as a top lane.
she'll be back tho, as soon as melee guys are back in
On June 22 2013 08:23 Slayer91 wrote: I used to jungle riven quite a bit, did it again today.
-First clear is weak, use all pots + still low hp -Low base stats hurt because you want some damage and you're a melee -Early level cds are high
However: -Great early/mid fighting power -Clears like a motherfucker (no cs issues at all after madreds for sure, wriggles isnt bad but not sure lifesteal is optimal) -No shortage of viable items to beef your AD (hexdrinker, brutalizer, LW, wriggles, spirit of the elder lizard perhaps)
I think the main problem is not being able to get BT, but honestly you didn't have that easy a time on riven if you didnt win your lane top anyway, and considering how hard it is to win lane against some of these guys top (kennen jayce elise god damn it dat harass) I think jungling is reasonable. Still doesn't solve the problem of riven excelling against shorter range comps so she can use her mobility both offensively and defensively at the same time and avoid focus fire and having plenty of targets. I think Vi is definitely superior as a jungler right now, and probaly Fiora as a top lane.
she'll be back tho, as soon as melee guys are back in
I think if I were to start jungling Riven, I'd suck it up and buy Hydra instead of BT unless I got fed. It's a much more friendly jungle item.
Doesn't the madreds feel a bit iffy if you're getting elder lizard? Just seems like something I would skip since the elder lizard item already beefs up your combo pretty well.
1: buy redpot and all-in If your redpot all-in worked, you just won your lane. If it didn't, you lost horribly. If you didn't buy a redpot, you also lost your lane
also for jungle riven you dont need xman claws, you can just go double rejuv->tiamat instead since that item is retardedly cheap. unlike BT, you don't actually need to farm up a BF for tiamat, and red buff stone is overrated and gives mp5 you don't need.
I think red pot is too risky atm.350g is a lot and if you fail all inning you will be so far behind.I prefer 5 pot 1 ward 1 rejuv or cloth armor 3 pots ward start.
I don't think you can ever justify Hydra on Riven unless you get super far ahead and it doesn't matter what you buy anymore. But at that point it won't matter what you buy. On jungle farm I think bruta+LW are your ideal mid game buys since you don't need life steal as badly on jungle Riven as you do with top lane Riven.
On June 23 2013 04:00 Silentenigma wrote: I think red pot is too risky atm.350g is a lot and if you fail all inning you will be so far behind.I prefer 5 pot 1 ward 1 rejuv or cloth armor 3 pots ward start.
In current meta Riven is a pretty risky pick to begin with. Picking Riven and playing safe is dumb. You're gonna want to all-in for 90% of the current fotm tops and nothing does that better than red pot start.
tiamat is fine as it is, lw can be painful to rush as a jungler (you'd have to start longsword->pickaxe then get 1025) as opposed to tiamat, which is much easier to buy (only thing that feels kinda bad is the pickaxe)
tiamat is the same thing except its 2 rejuv beads and then upfront buy isntead of an upfront buy and considering LW is far superior I think its worth it since the rejuv beads arent exactly amazing anyway
you can play Riven mid if your team has another source of magic dmg. She trades super well early game, scales ridiculously well off of levels, and can push and roam pretty easily. It's not conventional, but it goes well so long as the opposing mid isn't cc heavy
Gonna do some math, but I need some opinions. You're going to combo somebody and kill them with R2. What is your combo, include AAs? As a constraint, you can't make two autos in a row without using an ability.
On June 23 2013 05:27 Slayer91 wrote: tiamat is the same thing except its 2 rejuv beads and then upfront buy isntead of an upfront buy and considering LW is far superior I think its worth it since the rejuv beads arent exactly amazing anyway
not really seeing when you'd get tiamat either tbh, the small mobs have such little hp you could realistically prolly kill them with a q + w or a full q, or something honestly
In a full, extended combo BT outdamages Hydra(assuming Hydra doesn't reset), big surprise, I know. However, Riven's general lack of durability reduces her long fight potential. So then I decided to find how long her combo can be before BT exceeds Hydra.
Assumptions: lvl 18 w/ standard runes and masteries. RE starts combo. E animation cancels R and Hydra animation cancels W. All 3 Q, W, Hydra and R2 hit for max damage.
Room for error: Ignores 5AD from Ignite being down. Ignores Executioner to allow for more dynamic combo order. All damage is pre mitigation.
Items # autos by (without ult)/(with ult) damage
(Hydra/Bloodthirster) 3 auto attacks by 26.52/31.72 damage.
(Hydra/Bloodthirster)/Brutalizer 3 auto attacks by 1.01/1.22 damage.
(Hydra/Bloodthirster)/Last Whisper 4 auto attacks by 23.97/28.67 damage.
(Hydra/Bloodthirster)/Black Cleaver 4 auto attacks by 13.77/16.47 damage.
(Hydra/Bloodthirster)/Last Whisper/Brutalizer 5 auto attacks by 36.72/43.92 damage.
(Hydra/Bloodthirster)/Last Whisper/Black Cleaver 5 auto attacks by 11.22/13.42 damage
On September 01 2013 05:06 RaGe wrote: Not sure if it's public knowledge, but riven can jump over turrets now with her 3rd Q
never seen that never tried either
about the guide i like to use flash+ignite and for starting items 2xRejuvenation Bead +3 health potions and if all goes well try to rush Ravenous Hydra
On September 01 2013 05:06 RaGe wrote: Not sure if it's public knowledge, but riven can jump over turrets now with her 3rd Q
never seen that never tried either
about the guide i like to use flash+ignite and for starting items 2xRejuvenation Bead +3 health potions and if all goes well try to rush Ravenous Hydra
I think Riven's opening items are so dependent on the lane matchup that it's basically different every game
If it was a strict 1v1 I think you might be able to get away with double rejuv but in higher levels you're basically gambling that their jungler is retarded with that opening
On September 05 2013 06:16 sylverfyre wrote: That actually sounds pretty good. Hydra or BT + Bruta + cdr runes + sv?
Yeah. Haven't decided if the extra utility is better than the damage from Maw/Hex yet though. It dose make Riven feel a lot tankier though. I'll run some numbers tonight.
It's burst vs sustained damage. Do you need to be the one popping the ADC or doing the dirty work in a scrap? As a top, chances are you're expected to be, at least, the off tank in soloq.
Gains from AD(multiply everything by 1.2 for ult #s): Passive - 30-42.5 per charge Q - 126-199.5(42-66.5 per use) W/E - 60-95 damage/shield strength R - Low End: 36 - 57 High End: 108 -171
Gains due to CDR(14 to 34%, 20 to 40%): P/Q/W/E/R - (23%, 25%) increase in Charges, DPS, SPS, uptimes
On June 22 2013 08:23 Slayer91 wrote: I used to jungle riven quite a bit, did it again today.
-First clear is weak, use all pots + still low hp -Low base stats hurt because you want some damage and you're a melee -Early level cds are high
However: -Great early/mid fighting power -Clears like a motherfucker (no cs issues at all after madreds for sure, wriggles isnt bad but not sure lifesteal is optimal) -No shortage of viable items to beef your AD (hexdrinker, brutalizer, LW, wriggles, spirit of the elder lizard perhaps)
I think the main problem is not being able to get BT, but honestly you didn't have that easy a time on riven if you didnt win your lane top anyway, and considering how hard it is to win lane against some of these guys top (kennen jayce elise god damn it dat harass) I think jungling is reasonable. Still doesn't solve the problem of riven excelling against shorter range comps so she can use her mobility both offensively and defensively at the same time and avoid focus fire and having plenty of targets. I think Vi is definitely superior as a jungler right now, and probaly Fiora as a top lane.
she'll be back tho, as soon as melee guys are back in
the smited red lvl 2 gank from blue side cheese is extremely dangerous.
On June 22 2013 08:23 Slayer91 wrote: I used to jungle riven quite a bit, did it again today.
-First clear is weak, use all pots + still low hp -Low base stats hurt because you want some damage and you're a melee -Early level cds are high
However: -Great early/mid fighting power -Clears like a motherfucker (no cs issues at all after madreds for sure, wriggles isnt bad but not sure lifesteal is optimal) -No shortage of viable items to beef your AD (hexdrinker, brutalizer, LW, wriggles, spirit of the elder lizard perhaps)
I think the main problem is not being able to get BT, but honestly you didn't have that easy a time on riven if you didnt win your lane top anyway, and considering how hard it is to win lane against some of these guys top (kennen jayce elise god damn it dat harass) I think jungling is reasonable. Still doesn't solve the problem of riven excelling against shorter range comps so she can use her mobility both offensively and defensively at the same time and avoid focus fire and having plenty of targets. I think Vi is definitely superior as a jungler right now, and probaly Fiora as a top lane.
she'll be back tho, as soon as melee guys are back in
the smited red lvl 2 gank from blue side cheese is extremely dangerous.
that actually sounds pretty intersting, could you tell me more about this cheese ?
So is Hydra rush the new standard build for Riven now a day? Starting to play her more often and I use to always go 1 or 2 dorans into bf into bt, then usually a LW followed by a defensive item.
I assume Hydra works nice because the build up is much more consistent rather then saving up for a BF sword?
Also, is it worth it to run LS quints on her, or just go full AD Reds/Quints because her passive + ult?
On November 07 2013 15:23 SidianTheBard wrote: So is Hydra rush the new standard build for Riven now a day? Starting to play her more often and I use to always go 1 or 2 dorans into bf into bt, then usually a LW followed by a defensive item.
I assume Hydra works nice because the build up is much more consistent rather then saving up for a BF sword?
Also, is it worth it to run LS quints on her, or just go full AD Reds/Quints because her passive + ult?
Yeah, people caught on that Hydra is better due to the active. It's a more flexible buildup because you don't have to pick up BF sword and you can audible the Pickaxe/Longsword in Tiamat into Last Whisper if your lane opponent starts stacking armor, which they should do against you.
I've been running 4% LS on runes, the damage drop off is negligible.
ok, i want a few riven tips&tricks, prolly allready written down somewhere ;p there sure are some pretty neat game-play tricks like the famous W-Q Alistar combo with riven.
for example: i saw riven do atk-move, than use W/Q and the auto atk got buffed by her passive. moreover, her ult has a little cast time, i think i saw some people use ult+? to cancel this animation.
am i right that these 2 things are possible? and: is there some more stuff? i know, that when using Q, u should not use it ON TOP of your enemy, more like behind him, so u use the full dash-distance. rly important for the knockup-direction maybe there are some tricks with the tiamat/hydra active? (which has cast-time like her ult... think its about the same duration) would rly love a reply of a riven-fan ;D wanna add her to my junglers (ali jungle my fav so far )
/edit: someone did the math on how much movespeed riven gets with cdr? her dashes are like 475 movespeed - i think
Been jungling some Riven lately, I think it's amazing in the new jungle. Fast clearers that scale well with items are ruling supreme right now, and Riven fits those criteria perfectly.
Been rushing Hydra + Brut then itemising according to the enemy team. Common pickups are GA, SV and Randuins.
On December 06 2013 17:54 necaremus wrote: ok, i want a few riven tips&tricks, prolly allready written down somewhere ;p there sure are some pretty neat game-play tricks like the famous W-Q Alistar combo with riven.
for example: i saw riven do atk-move, than use W/Q and the auto atk got buffed by her passive. moreover, her ult has a little cast time, i think i saw some people use ult+? to cancel this animation.
am i right that these 2 things are possible? and: is there some more stuff? i know, that when using Q, u should not use it ON TOP of your enemy, more like behind him, so u use the full dash-distance. rly important for the knockup-direction maybe there are some tricks with the tiamat/hydra active? (which has cast-time like her ult... think its about the same duration) would rly love a reply of a riven-fan ;D wanna add her to my junglers (ali jungle my fav so far )
/edit: someone did the math on how much movespeed riven gets with cdr? her dashes are like 475 movespeed - i think
I'll have to check out the post swing passive charge, seeing as I've never heard of it. W and E cancel R1 animation. I think Hydra might too, since I know it cancels W. Aiming behind them with Q only works if they're infront of Riven, since she just goes forward if you aren't hover targeting. Either way, this is no direction to the knockup anymore since it isn't a knocback anymore. According to the wiki, Q is faster travel until 550, despite it being 475.
I haven't touched jungle Riven since S2, but depending on how Bloodrazor's turns out, she might have a few more tools than before. I like SV on her, but that lowers your burst for higher sustained damage and is probably better off with a BT centric build. But I know 1600 int he jungle is painful.
I'm currently in the process of writing the S4 guide, just waiting for everything in S4 to get phased in before finishing.
i tested around a little bit myself: the autoattack-Q/W move: if mastered perfectly, it saves a lot of time, pushing her dps. don't know if it's a "post swing passive charge", but normally, u run over the map with 3 passive charges up anyway at least i try to - 40% cdr helps a lot with that
than i found out that Q->E is faster as Q->Q or can u fasten it with the cancel button? ("s" by default i think) Q->S->Q
i rly like riven... so much tricks, so much stuff to master :D
I called it that because I needed to find termonology for it. So I decided to take swing from wow, which references any basic attack, where it would consume a passive charge that is generated after the attack.
As long as you don't spam Q hardcore, it's easy as hell to keep up 3 charges. Both Q and Passive have a 4 second uptime, meaning you can take up to 8 seconds for Q3 and it will keep the passive up until around 12s into the Q cd of 13 second. Which only requires around 10% cdr to make perpetual with a decent amount of comfort room.
i played her a few times now, and i'm thinking about good items on her. first of all: hydra rush is great. althou riven HAS enough area dmg :/ but the hydra active... and the general feel of wave and jungle clear with hydra... it's like farm-heaven xD
maybe rush BT instead? but the BF sword... takes forever. or just buy anytime u cant buy BT a long sword into bruttalizer
only buy t1 boots on her and leave them t1 until replaced with a last "real" item? i dont like pumping too much money into boots. riven is mobile with t1, np. and by the time u replace your boots, the game pretty much depends on 1 single teamfight ;p
the 6 items in total: Last whisper Black Cleaver Hydra Blood Thirster Spirit Visage Thornmail or Randuin's Omen
i need 1 big armor item. i don't know if Randuin's Omen + Opression(3% less dmg while slowed) is good enough to replace my favourite item of all time, which got nerfed a few times: Thornmail! Randuin's Omen is a lot more defensive, because it adds some hp to your limited HP pool - Thornmail on the other hand provides more armor, which gives more effective heals on your shield, which scales with ad . and, the most funny part is, free dmg, when somebody is hitting your shield :D so u can not only trade stupid spells vs your shield cd... even auto atks! xD
with black cleaver+spirit visage + red pot, u get to >2900hp lvl 18, ontop of that, depending on how much AD u have a <500 hp shield every 3,6 seconds(40%cdr) that last 2,5 seconds.. giving your enemys a ~1sec window where they cannot hit your shield - and you have about 1 sec CC in your kit ;D auto atks heal for an insane amount.
well... but not a lot of games go that long^^
/edit: i run 15/15/0 masteries on her. i dont feel like going down into the offense tree deeper as that is worth anything :/ and i rly love the points i can spend in the defense tree
Isn't the ideal end game Riven build still 1 LW, 4 BTs and 1 GA? lol
I seem to always go Hydra > LW 100% of the time on her now a day. I use to love the BT first builds but I think starting Hydra just gives you a much better build path. Plus if you want to start longsword + pots you can which is nice. I still prefer a dorans blade start but sometimes getting that tiamat even faster is really nice.