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Speaking about support Taric theory:
Is W really what should be maxed first? That's the part that almost feels wrong to me right now. It used to rank up your allies armor with each rank but now that's just a passive 12%.
For each skill point:
Q gets 40+40 Healing (56 self-heal) & -1 CDR.
E gets 30-60 Damage, +.1 stun & -1 CDR.
W gets 40 damage & -5 Armor shred. (The self armor buff is lost while on cool down and lets be real Taric is spaming this thing in fights and most poke damage is magic)
If your goal is to peel the first enemy who jumps on your carry you get the most damage and peel from a melee range Max E and the most healing from a Max Q. The only reason to Max W is if you value the extra 20 armor shred that only lasts 4 seconds.
Out of these choices: (240 damage + .4 stun) or (160 Heal) or (+20 armorPen for 4s) which one would you be willing to go without?
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.4 stun duration is a big deal when your ultimate goal is to walk into melee range, and THEN cast a spell to get the maximum utility out of your hero, none of the arguments against E max have changed my opinion on the matter.
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On September 10 2014 04:23 Ghost-z wrote: Speaking about support Taric theory:
Is W really what should be maxed first? That's the part that almost feels wrong to me right now. It used to rank up your allies armor with each rank but now that's just a passive 12%.
For each skill point:
Q gets 40+40 Healing (56 self-heal) & -1 CDR.
E gets 30-60 Damage, +.1 stun & -1 CDR.
W gets 40 damage & -5 Armor shred. (The self armor buff is lost while on cool down and lets be real Taric is spaming this thing in fights and most poke damage is magic)
If your goal is to peel the first enemy who jumps on your carry you get the most damage and peel from a melee range Max E and the most healing from a Max Q. The only reason to Max W is if you value the extra 20 armor shred that only lasts 4 seconds.
Out of these choices: (240 damage + .4 stun) or (160 Heal) or (+20 armorPen for 4s) which one would you be willing to go without?
As far as I'm concerned, I typically choose which skill to max based on lane flow. So if I end up versus a comp that can zone me forever, I'll max Q, then W. The aura itself gives only 5 bonus armor per rank, and the scaling doesn't change. Otherwise, if I think I'm going to have the opportunity to dive or be aggressive, I'll max W because it does increase my ADC's contribution to the fight. Q makes sense as a second ability in general, just because of how high it's values are.
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Taric's W passive does NOT scale with levels (changed many patches ago). Only his personal armor does but you lose that bonus when it's on cool down. Basically what I'm trying is max Q then E. My theory is that your only losing out on the armor shred but the Heal is probably better in lane. And if they focus you because you don't have that extra 20 armor then you just Heal yourself and should win the fight since the self-heal will be huge. W just looks like a 1 point wonder when you compare it to the damage and CC increase on his stun.
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On September 12 2014 00:07 krndandaman wrote: hit 2 people with it and thats total 50 armor pen.
Hit 5 people and that's 125 armor pen.
At some point it's less useful to penetrate multiple enemy's armor when you're focusing your attacks on only one of them. I think Q max is great if you're not trying to win your lane, as the healing only just extends your lanability but doesn't actually help you kill them, but I'd argue it's in Taric's best interest to represent kill potential as early on as possible, and it's my belief that E maxing does this.
Consider me hopping on board the max E train.
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I've always maxed R>W>Q>E but I was trying to find a reason why that might not be optimal. Sometimes to find out if you're doing the right thing you just have to try to prove yourself wrong.
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On September 12 2014 21:04 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 00:07 krndandaman wrote: hit 2 people with it and thats total 50 armor pen. Hit 5 people and that's 125 armor pen. At some point it's less useful to penetrate multiple enemy's armor when you're focusing your attacks on only one of them. I think Q max is great if you're not trying to win your lane, as the healing only just extends your lanability but doesn't actually help you kill them, but I'd argue it's in Taric's best interest to represent kill potential as early on as possible, and it's my belief that E maxing does this. Consider me hopping on board the max E train. You become an unkillable tank that gives sweet auras later on.
Is it not enough to just go even in lane and outscale?
*edit* also i don't think taric's kill potential is very high unless the enemy willingly eats autos. maybe he'd be great for punishing bad all-in attempts or something
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On September 14 2014 06:07 scrubtastic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 21:04 Zdrastochye wrote:On September 12 2014 00:07 krndandaman wrote: hit 2 people with it and thats total 50 armor pen. Hit 5 people and that's 125 armor pen. At some point it's less useful to penetrate multiple enemy's armor when you're focusing your attacks on only one of them. I think Q max is great if you're not trying to win your lane, as the healing only just extends your lanability but doesn't actually help you kill them, but I'd argue it's in Taric's best interest to represent kill potential as early on as possible, and it's my belief that E maxing does this. Consider me hopping on board the max E train. You become an unkillable tank that gives sweet auras later on. Is it not enough to just go even in lane and outscale? *edit* also i don't think taric's kill potential is very high unless the enemy willingly eats autos. maybe he'd be great for punishing bad all-in attempts or something Tarics kill potential is incredibly high rofl. Not as high as it used to be but still very threatening. All this most likely depending on the enemy support though, in most cases a squishy support getting hit with a stun + shatter + radiance + the ads autos/spells is certain death
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Rofl, so funny to see the not knowing people to bash on this guy. He's still a good support, your ignorance is bliss, I'm enjoying my Taric-free time on bot lane, so as long as you keep spreading utter bs like he's outclassed and whatnot, I'm happy.
And I guess Taric players would agree, because look what happened with Janna once she was found out; her ap ratios are bound to be hit after worlds', and I pray to god for NJS not winning the whole thing because it's gonna be S3 struggling all over again for me. Though bootcamper western teams are practicing her too, and Nyph has always liked Janna so... yeah, fuck me!
So yeah, Taric is shit, Braum does everything better, don't play him; he's also ugly and his sexual orientation is questionable. Nothing to see here, Close the thread, please.
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If taric wasnt that boring to play his power level could be assessed much better. The way it is nobody fcking plays him and i wouldnt as well. Hes so boring to play compared to all the other supports lol He would need to be overpowered as fuck again for people to actually touch him with thresh/braum/leona in the game
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On September 17 2014 11:21 Bam Lee wrote: If taric wasnt that boring to play his power level could be assessed much better. The way it is nobody fcking plays him and i wouldnt as well. Hes so boring to play compared to all the other supports lol He would need to be overpowered as fuck again for people to actually touch him with thresh/braum/leona in the game
I actually think this is why Taric is fun. There is no flashy mechanics or fishing skillshots - it all comes down to good decision making and map awareness.
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On September 17 2014 12:04 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2014 11:21 Bam Lee wrote: If taric wasnt that boring to play his power level could be assessed much better. The way it is nobody fcking plays him and i wouldnt as well. Hes so boring to play compared to all the other supports lol He would need to be overpowered as fuck again for people to actually touch him with thresh/braum/leona in the game I actually think this is why Taric is fun. There is no flashy mechanics or fishing skillshots - it all comes down to good decision making and map awareness.
That is what I play Alistar for. Although he does have room for flashy plays
What are the strongest taric bot lanes atm?
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Taric Urgot is hellah scary.
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On September 17 2014 19:34 Bam Lee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2014 12:04 Sufficiency wrote:On September 17 2014 11:21 Bam Lee wrote: If taric wasnt that boring to play his power level could be assessed much better. The way it is nobody fcking plays him and i wouldnt as well. Hes so boring to play compared to all the other supports lol He would need to be overpowered as fuck again for people to actually touch him with thresh/braum/leona in the game I actually think this is why Taric is fun. There is no flashy mechanics or fishing skillshots - it all comes down to good decision making and map awareness. That is what I play Alistar for. Although he does have room for flashy plays What are the strongest taric bot lanes atm? I'd just about bet Taric Graves would be good still, Taric Jinx/Taric Draven too most likely.
anything that can benefit from his W/has big burst is 99% of the time going to be good with Taric
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I run CaiTaric and TrisTaric. Max Q first, then W, focus on Support items while stacking mad armor for the aura. Mana pots early are also key with Taric, I tend to go 4 mana pots at the start and often buy as many as 5 more throughout the game.
Targons --> Sightstone --> Frozen Heart --> Tabi Boots --> Heart of the Mountain --> Randuins --> Locket/Thornmail/etc.
OP
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