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On October 01 2014 02:40 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2014 02:36 Fusilero wrote: Hey mouz had a really good thing going with thorzain/mana/hasuobs/morrow squad but that fell apart sadly. Titan maybe, I don't quite get titan seeing as they are split between a SEA dota squad and EU CS:GO team but maybe there's something there if they want it we don't even see all Chinese top-dogs diving into League
Who's missing? Can't think of any important Chinese clubs that don't have LPL or LSPL teams.
And yes I agree that despite Riot's efforts eSports just remains very top heavy. Even in Korea nobody gives a damn about you until you win, and they've got like the deepest eSports scene in existence.
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Btw just noticed CW Woolite is duoing with ROC Vander all the time. :D Also a few games with Overpow.
Hm....
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On October 01 2014 02:36 Fusilero wrote: Hey mouz had a really good thing going with thorzain/mana/hasuobs/morrow squad but that fell apart sadly. Titan maybe, I don't quite get titan seeing as they are split between a SEA dota squad and EU CS:GO team but maybe there's something there if they want it. One problem with getting into league is that it's really top heavy no matter how much riot loves "muh sustainability", like sure you can make LCS but unless you're near the top or a big brand no one gives a fuck, if copenhagen wolves or millenium just dropped out of LCS very few would care.
Makes me wonder how much ROI there is in Dota. There's a ton of online cups and a few big lan events so even if your team gets knocked out in a few of them there's always more around the corner but do these events give good ROI? Someone mentioned ZG saying League doesn't have much ROI, does that mean he spoke about dota as well?
On October 01 2014 03:08 Redox wrote: Btw just noticed CW Woolite is duoing with ROC Vander all the time. :D Also a few games with Overpow.
Hm....
Do the ROC players speak English well enough to look for replacements outside of Poland?
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On October 01 2014 03:17 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2014 03:08 Redox wrote: Btw just noticed CW Woolite is duoing with ROC Vander all the time. :D Also a few games with Overpow.
Hm.... Do the ROC players speak English well enough to look for replacements outside of Poland? Idk they might. Probably prefer Polish tho. But if you refer to Woolite, he is Polish. He would be exactly what they are missing.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Vander has played on international teams so it shouldn't be a problem for him, overpow played with h4nni, akke and loda back in HoN so he'd be okay. Idk about jankos and xaxus
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Whenever this question is asked to someone related to EU LCS, the response is that everyone but Celevar knows good English for sure. And they are not sure about Celevar because he never speaks much and they don't know if it's because of his character, or because his English is bad.
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Oh I didn't even know he was Polish. That's pretty cool then.
ps. It seems like no one in the league community realizes that this MYM isn't the same as the glory days of MYM.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Glory days MYM couldn't even pay their squad (though back then pretty much every team overspent hard). The only thing I can remember about them now is the 8-20 Polish squad in LoL and kicking up a fuss at one starladder that turned out to be a load of shit.
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Basically yea. They overspent a shit ton to get good results in War3 and I think they also got the Polish CS squad(Can't remember what they were prior to MYM). It's really weird how people still talk about how successful and good a team MYM is. I guess the "casual" esports fan doesn't really know all the details and just look at the old results.
Didn't the guy that owned Wicked buy the Brand and try to get teams going. I remember he stayed over at my cousins place for awhile a few years back. Think he had some Arab backer at the time who stopped funding then the team disappeared. Know they picked up the poles as well for some time.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
New hip and fresh rumour, rank 23 on Korean soloQ joins SKT. He apparently plays every role
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Didn't MyM sponsor Golden 5 at some point, and more recently a squad formed by the guys kicked from G5?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On October 01 2014 03:33 AlterKot wrote: Didn't MyM sponsor Golden 5 at some point, and more recently a squad formed by the guys kicked from G5?
Golden Five never played as MYM. Loord played there though, until April 1st this year or something, after he and Kuben got kicked for snax and Byali.
On October 01 2014 02:55 UmberBane wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2014 02:40 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On October 01 2014 02:36 Fusilero wrote: Hey mouz had a really good thing going with thorzain/mana/hasuobs/morrow squad but that fell apart sadly. Titan maybe, I don't quite get titan seeing as they are split between a SEA dota squad and EU CS:GO team but maybe there's something there if they want it we don't even see all Chinese top-dogs diving into League Who's missing? Can't think of any important Chinese clubs that don't have LPL or LSPL teams. And yes I agree that despite Riot's efforts eSports just remains very top heavy. Even in Korea nobody gives a damn about you until you win, and they've got like the deepest eSports scene in existence.
NewBee never had LoL team, and considering that their owner is basically billionaire, that's pretty meh if we're speaking about possible moneys in game. And you would have thought that DK after dissolving their star roster would have give real shot to League instead of being mediocre in LSPL.
But seriously, from all DotA top dogs in China, only iG achieved something and LGD are pretty okay now. Neither DK, VG, NewBee, TongFu, former Nirvana and so on gave LoL real shot.
On October 01 2014 03:45 UmberBane wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2014 03:17 Numy wrote:On October 01 2014 02:36 Fusilero wrote: Hey mouz had a really good thing going with thorzain/mana/hasuobs/morrow squad but that fell apart sadly. Titan maybe, I don't quite get titan seeing as they are split between a SEA dota squad and EU CS:GO team but maybe there's something there if they want it. One problem with getting into league is that it's really top heavy no matter how much riot loves "muh sustainability", like sure you can make LCS but unless you're near the top or a big brand no one gives a fuck, if copenhagen wolves or millenium just dropped out of LCS very few would care. Makes me wonder how much ROI there is in Dota. There's a ton of online cups and a few big lan events so even if your team gets knocked out in a few of them there's always more around the corner but do these events give good ROI? Someone mentioned ZG saying League doesn't have much ROI, does that mean he spoke about dota as well? As we know, Dota is the most top heavy game in eSports atm, so definitely not much ROI if you're not a top team, similar to League. Granted the LCS gives League some degree of consistency, since you can tell your sponsors you'll have 100k+ (EU) or 200k+ (NA) eyes on you every week, which in online cups in dota only happens for the later rounds or Finals. To draw a comparison: In BW, ProLeague was what gave sponsors of lesser teams an incentive to stay around, because they knew that no matter how badly they did, they regularly got a minimum amount of exposure guaranteed which they could calculate in. If there had been only OSL/MSL, it would have been much less stable and way more top heavy, because you'd only get good exposure if players of your team made it deep. Kind of how the WoL scene worked in a sense.
Even if you're mediocre team in DotA scene with, let's say, ability to be even top-8 in EU, you will make way more than League teams outside of LCS/Challenger Scene top dogs and if you're top-5/6, you will make way more than LCS teams.
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On October 01 2014 03:17 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2014 02:36 Fusilero wrote: Hey mouz had a really good thing going with thorzain/mana/hasuobs/morrow squad but that fell apart sadly. Titan maybe, I don't quite get titan seeing as they are split between a SEA dota squad and EU CS:GO team but maybe there's something there if they want it. One problem with getting into league is that it's really top heavy no matter how much riot loves "muh sustainability", like sure you can make LCS but unless you're near the top or a big brand no one gives a fuck, if copenhagen wolves or millenium just dropped out of LCS very few would care. Makes me wonder how much ROI there is in Dota. There's a ton of online cups and a few big lan events so even if your team gets knocked out in a few of them there's always more around the corner but do these events give good ROI? Someone mentioned ZG saying League doesn't have much ROI, does that mean he spoke about dota as well?
As we know, Dota is the most top heavy game in eSports atm, so definitely not much ROI if you're not a top team, similar to League. Granted the LCS gives League some degree of consistency, since you can tell your sponsors you'll have 100k+ (EU) or 200k+ (NA) eyes on you every week, which in online cups in dota only happens for the later rounds or Finals.
To draw a comparison: In BW, ProLeague was what gave sponsors of lesser teams an incentive to stay around, because they knew that no matter how badly they did, they regularly got a minimum amount of exposure guaranteed which they could calculate in. If there had been only OSL/MSL, it would have been much less stable and way more top heavy, because you'd only get good exposure if players of your team made it deep. Kind of how the WoL scene worked in a sense.
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I think one of the issues of League is that you don't have teams having their own flavour on the game. You don't have the old Navi chaotic fights or the classic A rat or DKs skirmishing or C9s crazy dumbness etc. It makes it harder for teams to retain fans even if they aren't doing well.
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On October 01 2014 03:41 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2014 03:33 AlterKot wrote: Didn't MyM sponsor Golden 5 at some point, and more recently a squad formed by the guys kicked from G5? Golden Five never played as MYM. Loord played there though, until April 1st this year or something, after he and Kuben got kicked for snax and Byali. Show nested quote +On October 01 2014 02:55 UmberBane wrote:On October 01 2014 02:40 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On October 01 2014 02:36 Fusilero wrote: Hey mouz had a really good thing going with thorzain/mana/hasuobs/morrow squad but that fell apart sadly. Titan maybe, I don't quite get titan seeing as they are split between a SEA dota squad and EU CS:GO team but maybe there's something there if they want it we don't even see all Chinese top-dogs diving into League Who's missing? Can't think of any important Chinese clubs that don't have LPL or LSPL teams. And yes I agree that despite Riot's efforts eSports just remains very top heavy. Even in Korea nobody gives a damn about you until you win, and they've got like the deepest eSports scene in existence. NewBee never had LoL team, and considering that their owner is basically billionaire, that's pretty meh if we're speaking about possible moneys in game. And you would have thought that DK after dissolving their star roster would have give real shot to League instead of being mediocre in LSPL. But seriously, from all Dota top dogs in China, only iG achieved something and LGD are pretty okay now. Neither DK, VG, NewBee, TongFu, former Nirvana and so on gave LoL real shot.
Haha ok you mean Dota2 top dogs, sorry, thought you meant Chinese eSports top dogs. How can you say Vici doesn't give League a shot when they're boasting 3 LoL squads at once? How can you just leave out WE (I hope you won't tell me they didn't give League a shot ) or E-Home who won IEM? iG have two pretty decents squads and their main roster was really good at one point, and NewBee isn't really an old established club with any prestige. No reason for them to randomly try and get a League team.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
EHOME is dead, world elite pretty much gave up on dota 2 after their squad got owned by mouz in the last second qualifier for TI2. WE has pretty much given up on everything but LoL at this point their glory days of WC3 and original dota are long gone (though their LoL team was absurdly popular, idk without caomei and wexaio now though)
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No matter how you turn it, WE are still one of the old Chinese legendary orgs, to me they're the most legendary out of them all, rivaled by Ehome. The fact that they feel no need to expand beyond LoL didn't change that. Leaving them out of the list to make an off base comparison is stupid.
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I hope his pro handle becomes "rank23."
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On October 01 2014 03:51 UmberBane wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2014 03:41 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On October 01 2014 03:33 AlterKot wrote: Didn't MyM sponsor Golden 5 at some point, and more recently a squad formed by the guys kicked from G5? Golden Five never played as MYM. Loord played there though, until April 1st this year or something, after he and Kuben got kicked for snax and Byali. On October 01 2014 02:55 UmberBane wrote:On October 01 2014 02:40 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On October 01 2014 02:36 Fusilero wrote: Hey mouz had a really good thing going with thorzain/mana/hasuobs/morrow squad but that fell apart sadly. Titan maybe, I don't quite get titan seeing as they are split between a SEA dota squad and EU CS:GO team but maybe there's something there if they want it we don't even see all Chinese top-dogs diving into League Who's missing? Can't think of any important Chinese clubs that don't have LPL or LSPL teams. And yes I agree that despite Riot's efforts eSports just remains very top heavy. Even in Korea nobody gives a damn about you until you win, and they've got like the deepest eSports scene in existence. NewBee never had LoL team, and considering that their owner is basically billionaire, that's pretty meh if we're speaking about possible moneys in game. And you would have thought that DK after dissolving their star roster would have give real shot to League instead of being mediocre in LSPL. But seriously, from all Dota top dogs in China, only iG achieved something and LGD are pretty okay now. Neither DK, VG, NewBee, TongFu, former Nirvana and so on gave LoL real shot. Haha ok you mean Dota2 top dogs, sorry, thought you meant Chinese eSports top dogs. How can you say Vici doesn't give League a shot when they're boasting 3 LoL squads at once? How can you just leave out WE (I hope you won't tell me they didn't give League a shot ) or E-Home who won IEM? iG have two pretty decents squads and their main roster was really good at one point, and NewBee isn't really an old established club with any prestige. No reason for them to randomly try and get a League team.
VG never were even close to be top-dog in League, having 2 squads in LSPL is good and everything but meh. EHOME never won IEM though, they only were 4th afaik when CLG lost to WE in finals but it was in 2012 so i could forget something.
WE never were successful in DotA on the other hand, they had their success in WC3 and their League team but in DotA, like, WE's DotA 2 peak is basically losing 0-3 to Synderen's mouz at TI2 which proceeded to be 3-11 and losing in first round of loser bracket iirc, that's pretty sad. And they never had success in original DotA either.
Their only achievement is basically opening Sylar's talent to the world, props.
By giving a shot i mean really giving a shot, not being "uh, we have teams, so we're good boys".
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Still it's a bit bizarr. When WE not being succesful in DotA but only really succesful in WC3 and League suddenly means they're not a top dog anymore, how can you count a team like DK as a top dog when in the past they've only been succesful in 1 out of the 3 games, let alone orgs with no history like NewBee?
I don't know why Vici acquires 3 teams if they didn't have any desire to do well at some point either. I doubt the ROI is that amazing in LSPL.
tl;dr you should have said dota top dogs instead of eSports top dogs. There can be a big difference between the two. You can be both, but being one of them alone doesn't mean you're the other one aswell.
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