TL Mafia XV
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Shikyo
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On October 21 2009 12:22 Tricode wrote: BC? Screw that! I Announce My Candidacy! My experience is limited. But I promise you BC will be lynched. My plan is to kill all the smart players. That means the mafia will eventually lose their smart people too! Trust me! I will not be much of a leader, but I will try to focus on what the town wants and actually look for logical reasoning that isn't flawed. This is a promise. Remember these reasons when voting for me! 1. BloodyC0bbler will be my #1 choice for first lynch. (I do this for no logical reason, other then my own personal interests and promise to kill him someday.Though it is subject to change if a better candidate is found) 2. I will try to listen to the town as much as possible to help guide my decisions. 3. I will do my best to point out logical reasoning and flaws with what is being said. So that the town doesn't just vote with little reasoning. 4. I like the Teenage Mutant ninja turtles and will be watching them as you vote. Donatello rules! P.S. If I win, I promise to shout Cowabunga! It's too bad that your whole platform is flawed and has illogical reasoning, so it contradicts itself quite thoroughly. I also am not sold on your ability to point out logic and reasoning in others' posts, no matter your intentions. | ||
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On October 21 2009 12:41 Tricode wrote: My candidacy is legit and unflawed, how dare you! Easily, thanks for asking. Guess I'll sleep now, hope you get a lot of votes(yarite) ^_^ nighty night | ||
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On October 22 2009 04:39 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: So you think he's town, but want to lynch him? My feeble mind betrays me - what do we gain from that? We will not have to read as many bad posts, hence we will be happier. And we all know that happy people make the best plans, so we will win. It's completely reasonable, don't you think? | ||
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On October 22 2009 06:47 Amber[LighT] wrote: Knowing the people that play/set up these games after playing about 7 mafia games they probably randomly assigned roles. It's a terrible idea to assume all the vets get the mafia roles. More than typically there is a pretty even split, and more or less the veterans get the townie-aligned roles. How do you gauge who's a "veteran" anyway? My guess, or at least how I would do it, is make a list of veterans, maybe 5-8 names or something, and have one mafia be randomly selected from them(with RNG of course). Then select the rest randomly. Assuming that you want to include vets, I personally would just RNG everyone. Redtooth, amazing analysis but it seems to be more about "he is scum let me find reasons why that might be" rather than "hmm suspicious post, he might be scum". I don't think I can vote for anyone to be the mayor since no decent platforms have been presented. | ||
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On October 22 2009 07:00 redtooth wrote: well i have to agree with you to a certain extent but i had no suspicions of tricode until that post. that single post had red flags all over and i just found more as i analyzed it deeper. Well yeah, I actually wouldn't mind lynching him no matter his alignment just because it'd be a lot less damaging to the brain. But yeah let's keep our eyes open. Especially if he becomes quiet from now on it's going to be suspicious. It's difficult to see if he's faking or is just being dumb and doing it unintentionally, though. | ||
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On October 22 2009 07:09 redtooth wrote: eh but those are the two reasons why we should lynch? i propose that our planned Day 2 lynch (for incognito's DT plan) be tricode. Yeah sure, but who are we going to lynch day 1 then? I really have no idea since there aren't any clues... I guess we'll have to go off behavior alone, although it's quite difficult at this point of the game. About the DT plan, it seems like it helps them narrow their role down to 2 possible DT sanities, so they could either give it a 50/50 guess, or wait for a second check and death. So yeah sure, why not? I'm not really sure what the problem with this plan was again, or why were some people disagreeing with it? | ||
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On October 22 2009 07:18 redtooth wrote: tricode is not one of the "vets". L and BC can afford to goof off and do whatever. look at Ace's platform: it's shit but it's better than tricode's long platform post. there is a chance that BC, L, and Ace are mafia but there is no chance that they are stupid townies. on the other hand, killing tricode is a win-win situation. Flawless logic. Stupid townie or stupid mafia, we win in either case. I think we might have to lynch either L or Ace soon though, or this thread will be like 100 pages in no time. | ||
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On October 22 2009 07:21 dreamflower wrote: How so? The point of continuing to run these games of Mafia is to have people learn how to play better, and plenty of people do get better and better as they understand the rules and learn to distinguish behavior better. Qatol told me he was "absolutely horrible" in his first game, and now he's considered one of the best players here. Unless you mean players who are labeled "bad" will always be labeled "bad," in which case I totally agree. It's hard to get rid of a label like that, unless you play spectacularly well in a game or consistently well in multiple games. Especially if a well-known player like Ace or L attaches the "bad player" label to you. Well looking at his posts, Tricode's astounding logic and gamesense seems to have stayed unchanged, so it's not a stretch to assume a relatively similiar skill level to past games. And you sound so serious, that's very scary. | ||
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On October 22 2009 07:23 redtooth wrote: also, this is absolutely wrong. i don't remember tricode's standard behavior but it seems to be the general consensus that he's a very bad player. he also doesn't seem to be taking the game very seriously at the moment so we can't rely on any drastic improvements from him. Ace, L, BC have established their usefulness in whenever they were green. He normally says dumb stuff, makes bad connections with clues and is wrong about everything, generally. His behavior for now seems consistent with his past behavior. | ||
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On October 22 2009 07:39 dreamflower wrote: I am serious when it comes to people being labeled as "good" and "bad" like that. I apologize if this is frightening for you. "Good" players can play quite badly and "bad" players can play well, so labeling someone like that and sticking by it forever seems ill-advised. And I thought it was ironic that Foolishness made that post, having been labeled a "bad" player by Ace in the past. I'm neither defending or advocating Tricode's lynch, but I'm puzzled as to why people seem to have latched onto that. Especially since the issue at hand right now should be the Mayor elections. I would definitely like to see a little more from the candidates than "*yawn* *runs for Mayor* *goes back to sleep*". Well, the level of seriousness of my posts most likely differs slightly from the level of yours, so take that into account. Also, I don't think Ace was really being serious, since Foolishness has clearly been one of the better players here. I think he got hurt by foolishness calling him bad, so that labeling doesn't hold the same value. If you're wondering about my reasonings, it's because I think it'll cause at least some discussion. I also haven't really liked his posts and even though it's more of a placeholder lynch vote, I wouldn't mind him getting lynched simply because I can't see him being all that useful to the town. I also agree about Ace, hence I won't vote for a mayor until a good candidate steps up. Oh yeah, and I for one don't really care who's labeled as a bad player, I can see how good they are myself. | ||
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On October 22 2009 09:04 HeavOnEarth wrote: note that motbob voted ace and is still inactive in the thread.. Note that that means that he got the PM, and the posts in the LR thread means he's been around, and the vote means he's been reading the thread. Highly suspicious!!! | ||
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On October 22 2009 09:38 SugiuraMidori wrote: Shikyo isn't acting like his normally green self, he must be mafia. Now I must eat dinner, I await your responses my dear Shikyo~ Nice logic, but if you read the game where I was mafia, I was avoiding attention a lot more. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104099¤tpage=7#133 Two different time periods during which he's been on, and the vote at a different time period, but no post here. Highly sus... okay okay, but interested to read what he has to say. | ||
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On October 22 2009 10:49 Tricode wrote: what do you mean pick a person? I already gave my suggestion in who should be lynched. Unless you have a different meaning. Group? what are you talking about? Why is killing terrible players not a bad suggestion? You have no right to decide that. You gave your suggestion "me" and some people decided to bandwagon while stating "Oh i don't remember Tricodes behavior or him much" 'so let's trust 'L' and lynch him cause he must be bad, since L said so' Don't you find that kinda weird? Been watching you and paying a lot of attention to you last couple of games, so that's not true at least for me. Group means "inactives" for example. A reason for why people have a hard time taking you seriously is because you can't figure something so simple out, as if you completely lacked some basic common sense. Killing bad players is not a bad suggestion because bad players hurt the town, irrelevant of their alignment. He didn't "decide" that, it's a logical conclusion that almost anyone can come to. I don't know about the bandwagon, redtooth really was the one who brought that up and I doubt it had anything to do with L. I'd find it weird if they weren't correct. But it's something to keep in mind, as always. Weird how no one else cares about motbob... | ||
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On October 22 2009 10:59 Tricode wrote: Look, it's a bad idea, cause it is hard to judge who is bad. Yeah there are people who can screw up, and misinterpret things. But does that make them bad? How do you clarify a bad player? My definition would be : A person who never tries. Goofs off no matter what happens. Doesn't really play, and is normally inactive for many games.' If you agree with my definition, can you honestly say I fit any of those descriptions to the 'T'. Also how many people would agree with you if you do believe i fit those descriptions? This is a waste of time. My definition would be: Hurts the town unintentionally or not, acts suspiciously and possibly makes town waste a lynch on him even if he's town, fills pages with useless clutter that deters away from the main concerns, and isn't able to analyse behavior or clues well enough to find who the mafia actually are. Also, a bad player won't be able to convince others if he indeed is correct for once. | ||
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On October 22 2009 11:06 Tricode wrote: Going by your definition, anyone who has been involved in this stupid argument with me and L, would fit your definition. So thus i suggest we drop L's stupid idea and look at the tards who tried to bandwagon with it with out proof or reasoning. Yeah, pretty much so, but that's excusable at this point of the game when there really isn't that much to work with. If I was to actually pick someone to lynch, I'd put inactives to RNG. | ||
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On October 22 2009 11:07 Incognito wrote: DT Medic Lists: Some people are suggesting a single DT medic list. This way, the DTs could check the prime players while at the same time the Medics deterred hits on them. The DTs would also deter the hits somewhat because dead RCed people = more info for town, as I've said. However, the point of the original medic list was that the people on the list would be under heavy scrutiny and that DT checks on them would be wasteful in the long run (correct me if I'm wrong?). Which leads us to the two separate lists idea. We could cover more people since the mafia would not want to hit either the medic list or the potentially RCed people list. For this list though, we would rotate the people on the list to cover more people. Perhaps beginning with a 2-3 person list and replacing one member with a new player every day. This way, the mafia don't know if the person who was removed from the list was checked the night before, giving us a growing list of dangerous players to hit. Obviously the mafia would eventually either have to hit the potentially RCed players or the DTs if they get lucky/can blue snipe. But I think that overall this increases our early game chances for both survival and organization, both of which are key. Thoughts? Mmm yes, it's a bad idea to combine the lists because the DTs want the people they checked to actually die. So seperate lists should be good. Still though, it'd protect the people they check although the DTs really would like to gain more information via the death of the person they checked. But it definitely is better than a single list. | ||
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On October 22 2009 11:52 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: I'm gonna explain a concept here that needs to be addressed. Wine In Front of Me (hereon out referred to as "WIFOM"). It's a bad, garbage defense that you should not use, because it's really scummy. It's basically saying "I can't be mafia now, because if I was mafia, I would do the opposite." It's a terrible defense because it's real easy to say one thing and do another. Thus this defense has as many holes as swiss cheese. Hey I've heard of that definition before, it was used against me before as well! I think I got linked to a mafiawiki or something. And know what? I still don't know what it means, and just for the record, when someone suspected me of that I was innocent. It's good if you always try to use that against me, that way I can actually utilize it while I'm mafia without being suspicious. About 53789th time in a row where people think I'm a mafia. I think the only game where I wasn't accused early was the one where I was mafia. Make what you want out of that. | ||
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On October 22 2009 12:04 Qatol wrote: There is a bit of confusion so I'll say this here too (as reflected in the OP): Mafia do not get to convert a player to be their godfather. They elect the godfather from among their own members. Is it possible to know which people were confused about this so that I'm able to form a good list of potential day1 lynches for my RNG? | ||
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On October 22 2009 12:17 Qatol wrote: Yep here you go: LTT, Chuiu, Shikyo, Fakesteve I wasn't, so that's incorrect. Others make no sense. | ||
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On October 22 2009 12:20 Tricode wrote: L, can we consider people who have very minimal post like 3 and under to be near inactive range? Of course, you don't need L to answer that. Content is also important. | ||
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On October 22 2009 18:13 Ace wrote: As for those of you thinking mafia usually just sit back and let shit happen - lol. That only works when the town is doing enough to kill themselves for you. Last time I was on the Mafia side I was actively planning out scenarios with Pyrr so we could stay a step ahead. Don't kill active, contributing players. Even if you think Tricode is worthless right now with no clues to go on killing actives will hurt even more at this point. Foolishness really is bad, and so is Shikyo based on that other game with JeeJee (lol). No one in their right mind would count the smurf game as credible to someone playing well since that entire game was a big cluster fuck of nonsense and half the people not even really trying. And you really are bad based on the game where the town lynched their electees, right? | ||
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On October 22 2009 23:27 Ace wrote: huh? whats that? pulling random games I don't even remember out of your ass to try and sound credible? It's ok, you're bad. You'll get better eventually when you stop doing things like reading posts by guys named Foolishness and especially anyone named Vivi57. I sounded credible? Or tried... well I was just being sarcastic, basically it means that people have bad games, although you had quite a bit of unwelcome effect on the game even though you weren't playing. Tricode: Two lynches of different colors are enough. One lynch gives it a 50/50. | ||
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On October 23 2009 01:27 L wrote: So, does anyone remember a game in which Scamp played the silent clueless newbie part and had a role other than mafia? Umm actually no, only been mafia. | ||
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On October 23 2009 02:23 redtooth wrote: i don't know if doing incognito's plan for two nights is a good idea. mafia games don't last too long and wasting 2 nights so DT can just figure out his sanity is not an efficient use of time. if you look back at one of my previous posts, i outline the three scenarios DT faces after the first lynch. DT should then check suspicious people and base their judgment on their present scenario (they can either correctly identify a person or determine that a person is one of the two other colors). otherwise, we waste 2+ (remember the lynches HAVE to flip two different colors for the DT to perfectly identify their sanity) nights just to have DT find out their sanity but they do not get any information because all the people they checked are now dead. DTs aren't invincible and have a high chance of dying before they can be of any use at all. We could, after this first DT lynch thing, figure out the possible mafia early and decide to lynch them the next day so that the DTs have the time to check him. But I don't know how significant the one day delay is going to be. And as soon as we've lynched people with two different colors, we'd obviously stop this and start lynching normally instead of delaying. I think I explained it pretty badly but I think it'd help. | ||
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Another possibilities are 1. guessing with the 50% chance and hoping you get it right 2. DT-checking some people and seeing which of the 2 roles would make more sense for them and you can always narrow it down to at least the 1/2 chance, and you will be able to guarantee 1/3 of the roles(not including GF). Wonder if there's something I missed while thinking about this, since there always seems to be something I fail to take into consideration. | ||
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On October 23 2009 03:42 Amber[LighT] wrote: Where's this wine you speak of and why do I not have a glass or box of? You haven't used the wine-in-front-of-me defense enough, it seems. Find out everything about it on mafiawiki. | ||
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On October 23 2009 03:46 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Yeah L, I noticed most of the time I come up with ideas in the shower. I had this one just a little while ago. I am surprised I didn't think of it earlier, this plan is also more or less godfather proof. So today we go ahead and mayoral kill Motbob hes an inactive and we need to do something with our lynch, it might as well be that. The next step is for the Day 2 lynch we kill Tricode. As of now I think Tricode is either a Red or a Green. Either way this works out (However if hes a blue, hes a moron and this doesn't work so well) But I think that is a relatively low chance. Now the DT's have checked Tricode and have gotten a result lets pretend he is Green for all intensive purposes. Now we have the Vet's role call, I think in this game there is probably 1-2 Vet's, I can't see anymore than that. Since the mafia KP is only two, it wouldn't be worthwhile to try to kill one, especially with medics around. Lets say we get 2 Veteran's who role call and we have 2 DT's now, the next check that the DT's get they use on these role called Veteran's, with that we now know that the DT's have checked 1 Green/red in Tricode and now a Blue in the RC'd Veteran. They now have their sanity determined theoretically if it all goes well. The Veteran's will ANNOUNCE when the DT has role called to them (since they should be more or less confirmed now) with this if a DT dies we know who to look at, so if the mafia tries pulling some fast shit they lose a member which they can't afford to do. If a DT role calls to the "Vet" and he doesn't go public before night, you tell us what you did. Chances are he is a mafia if he didn't announce that he had you role claimed. From there we now have the Vet's and the DT's working together with sanity secured hopefully, and very little that the mafia can actually do about it except killing the DT's before any of this even happens. In the case that there is only a single Veteran the medics can be used to scare off/save that Vet. If only 1 Veteran role calls we can be almost 100% sure they are legit. With that we can coordinate well and identify who is NOT mafia and then narrow down suspect lists. Some stuff that seems problematic to me: 1. We don't know the amount of veterans, so we can't even know if there's a mafia amongst them. I think that if 3 vets claim, it's highly likely, though. But with 2 vets claiming, one of them can very well be mafia. It's true that if only one vet calls he's most likely legit, but I just don't see why a mafia member wouldn't claim vet in a situation like this. Maybe he's afraid of a third person calling vet after him? Still, we can't guarantee that the vet is actually a vet. 2. If the DTs check tricode and he's green, when they check the vet he'll show up as a mafia or a blue, but the DT can't know which. He might contact a mafia and he has no way at all of knowing wether the vet is actually vet or a mafia. Also, they won't get hit by mafia in either case, so we can't even use the fact that they weren't hit as a reason for suspicion. Also, I don't understand why the mafia wouldn't announce that a DT claimed to them, they already put themselves into the open as vets to begin with. That'd be really stupid. But maybe the mafia actually is that stupid, who knows. Of course, if Tricode or whoever else we lynch turns out to be mafia instead, this all would work out perfectly and to me seems like the best way to go about things. | ||
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Now let's talk about the medics a little bit, shall we? So, they're extremely powerful in this kind of a game, being able to completely prevent a person from dying after the amount of mafia is reduced to 2. After this point, 2 medics are able to keep each other alive until the end of the time and roleclaim with no worries and become an autowin. That's why I believe that there is only one medic in the game. Could be two, but that would be really, really overpowered in my opinion. Also, the medic shouldn't role claim since they'd be immediately killed by mafia. This means that they'd have to kind of act from the shadows for most of the time. I also think that our medic list or whatever we're planning on doing should be relatively short, since with 8 names and 1 medic, the mafia will most likely just completely ignore the list. | ||
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On October 23 2009 04:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: If two vet's claim we kill them both and trade off for GF. Who cares? 2 actual Vet's would be broken with 2 KP. 5 townies, one of which is a vet, for one mafia? Assuming we carry out the first 2 day plans and miss with both, that means one mafia on the fourth day, which means that we pretty much lose. GF doesn't matter at that point. Although that might be worth considering if we manage to lynch a mafia on the first two days. | ||
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I guess you're correct about imba though, so I'd say that there's only one medic and one vet, but we can never be sure and if we screw up with that, we're done. | ||
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On October 23 2009 04:26 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I think if you shift medic/Vet numbers at ALL it would be imbalanced. So we can be SURE the one Vet that claims is sincere. If there are two Vets that claim we call it off and kill the Two claiming vets. Well yeah, I can't see any other reason for different amount unless the hosts were screwing with us somehow. Especially 2 medics would be completely gamebreaking, and yeah with so little KP... I guess it could work. I highly doubt they'd have the GF claim vet though, since if the day 2 lynch turns out green, it'd be better for them if a normal mafia claimed vet because of the DT confusion. I don't think they can afford to let the town have a confirmed townie that early in the game, so I guess that's what they might be going for. If the day2 lynch turns out to be either blue or mafia, then Mafia has no way of claiming vet without getting screwed unless it's the GF claiming... sigh my head is starting to hurt. | ||
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On October 23 2009 04:35 L wrote: Not really. They would all need to claim rather early, not get lynched, not get hit prior to claiming, etc. I really don't think we should assume that we have a certain number of a role given that they have been hidden from us on purpose. It could very well be that we have 0 vets and 2 medics as far as i can tell. I know you're right, there most likely are some roles that are completely unused. And if there are 0 vets that plan is going to backfire horribly. About medics though, well I think that having a complete autowin after lynching 2 mafia is quite imbalanced... | ||
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since every time he runs he gets into the office even with no platform | ||
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On October 23 2009 08:32 HeavOnEarth wrote: lol i googled orange and it has no rhyme. lucky me ._. Isn't that like common knowledge? One of the few words with no rhyme ^_^ These poems are really annoying, I really don't like reading each post 5 times to see what it means. | ||
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On October 23 2009 09:59 SugiuraMidori wrote: 1. Dreamflower 2. Foolishness 3. Ace <-- Acting like a non-red Ace 4. vx70GTOJudgexv <-- Acting like the blue Judge we know from before 5. RebirthofLegend <-- Small chance of being red, however, due to the poor plan to out all the Veterans and DT's. 6. Bloodyc0bbler <-- he's being an annoying senseless post-rhymer because he has nothing else useful to do for the town and just wants to be lynched out of here. 7. Incognito 8. Amber[Light] <-- Not too bright, rare posts, not massively interested in the game? 9. Pyrrhuloxia <-- too much goofing around compared to when he's red 10. L <-- Trying to rule the world, evil man, useless arguments, mafia. 11. Tricode <-- Trying to keep himself alive because he's useful, but can't be mafia cuz they'd be slapping him around for being a douche. 12. Vivi57 <-- knew far too soon that tricode was non-red 13. Infundibulum <-- acting reasonably smart. 14. Sugiuramidori <-- Me 15. Scamp 16. Shikyo <-- Not acting anything like his previous games were he wasn't red, and also it's perhaps his turn to try being red. 17. Caller 19. Redtooth 20. Heavonearth 21. Chezinu <-- On and on about his stupid brown stuff, vibe I get is he's red. (no useful posts either) This is my first list of suspects that I have gathered from reading all the posts up till now (except for the lamers and their poetry which I refuse to read from how poor it is). List is of course incomplete.. and blue and green are potentially swappable. Did my best at picking out the four reds, the other people would fall as either blue or green, and I'll refine the list later.[Note]: This is what I've gathered just from reading the grammar and methods of peoples speech patterns. Well, I'd say that L has this evil ruling the world thing going in just about every mafia game he plays, so I don't know how reliable that analysis is. Otherwise most of the stuff seems to make sense, except for your apparent lack of knowledge regarding my playstyle. Tricode appeared blue to me as well. I guess you have no opinion about incognito or Scamp, which is strange because there should be at least some material to work with. About the elections, it seems like there was a huge voteswing at the end. That's something to keep in mind. I was planning on changing my vote if necessary, but I missed the timing and it seems like it wouldn't really have mattered, anyway. Oh well. | ||
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On October 23 2009 16:23 SugiuraMidori wrote: ¡ɹəɥʇəƃoʇ ʞɔɐq ɯəɥʇ ʎouuɐ uɐɔ əʍ 'pooƃ sı ɥɔıɥʍ 'sdoʇs ʎɹʇəod pıdnʇs əɥʇ ןןıʇ doʇs ʇ,uoʍ noʎ ʎxoɹd ʎq suɐəɯ ʇɐɥʇ 'səpısəq puɐ px sɹnoʎ dn ədʎʇ oʇ sɹɐəʎ noʎ səʞɐʇ ʇı ʇəq ı 'sıɥʇ ədʎʇ oʇ ןןɐ ʇɐ əɯıʇ ou əɯ səʞɐʇ ʇı 'puıɯ ʇ,uop ı That's too troublesome to read, so from now on I'll just ignore every post of yours. Please keep that in mind if you or anyone else try to analyse my behavior or decisions or whatever. If you say something important, I sadly am going to miss it, but I can't be arsed to read that. | ||
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Highly suspicious!!! | ||
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On October 24 2009 00:20 SugiuraMidori wrote: pəɹ sı oʎʞıɥs əıp ı ɟı ʇɐɥʇ sɐʍ 'sıuuəʇ ʎɐןd oʇ sɯɐəɹp ʎɯ pəpɐʌuı ɹəʌ puɐ ןoʇɐb ɹəʇɟɐ 'ƃuıʞɐʍ ɟo əʇɐʇs snoıɔuoɔnıɯəs ɐ uı ƃuıuɹoɯ sıɥʇ pɐɥ ı uoıʇɐzıןɐəɹ ɐ now they're going to kill you to get me lynched -_-;; | ||
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On October 24 2009 03:16 SugiuraMidori wrote: Shikyo has been caught now he is getting pissed off that he might get lynched (haiku's > *) I have no idea what I should say since you won't believe anything after you've set your mind on something, apparently. So I guess I don't mind if you believe I'm mafia. Let's just say that your analysis about me has really been the worst analysis I've seen from you in the games I've played with you. | ||
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On October 24 2009 07:08 SugiuraMidori wrote: Shikyo needs to learn that there was a game to play to find out his side Shikyo I know best so I made Shikyo my test a circle can start Okay~ | ||
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I've always wondered, at what point do you generally start saying something useful? | ||
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what's so cool and amazing in silly haikus | ||
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On October 24 2009 13:31 L wrote: Why would motbob flipping townie confirm Ace as town? Yes, he said he would pardon anyone who'd be lynched first day? It actually proves nothing at all. Even if its mafia, nothing points to him pardoning the mafia intentionally. | ||
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On October 24 2009 17:27 Ace wrote: 1st of all I already posted no matter who was going up for insta lynch I was going to pardon them so motbob living or dying has no bearing on me as it doesn't hold a motive for me. 2nd if the town tries to lynch motbob tomorrow I'll pardon him because I find this "bandwagon" against him really suspect. No one has any credible motive for lynching him except "lol he hasn't posted much". The same can be said about a number of players but it seems like a few of you are trying to force it. How about instead of that, we look at the people trying to force Motbob's death and check them out instead? I think that you're correct in that some of the people trying to, especially unreasonably, get motbob lynched might be somewhat suspicious. However, I still believe that you shouldn't pardon him, or anyone else on the second day. The DTs can use their checks now, and it definitely doesn't seem like a good idea to pardon him and delay everything for a full day. Even if motbob does turn out to be green, that gives us some definite information, gives the DTs an idea of their sanity, and lets us think about other players' attitudes about him. The rewards are higher than the losses even if he is green. The first pardon was completely justified, but it's extremely questional to pardon someone on the second day, and would directly turn you into a top suspect along with motbob. | ||
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On October 24 2009 21:59 Ace wrote: Not at all. Like I said I'm not in the business of killing someone just for the sake of information especially when that someone was bandwagonned into it, ie they are most likely innocent anyway. If you guys want to find lynch motbob someone will have to come up with a more convincing argument. Call me suspect if you want but I'm sure you know I really dont care as it won't go any ways towards painting me guilty or suspicious. As for your second post I don't care if the person is blue. As long as they are more likely innocent than guilty I'd pardon them. The whole point of the Vet idea is to avoid having to lynch a player to verify our DTs. Well I guess you have a point in a way, although I disagree with your opinion about the importance of information. Of course, if a better lynch candidate comes up, we could very well lynch him instead. If you believe motbob is innocent, who do you think isn't? | ||
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On October 24 2009 22:10 Ace wrote: I don't have any serious opinions about anyone right now. I'm just pretty lax, waiting on Night to pass. Pyrr has to tell me who his BGs are and also tell another player before this night is over tho. Once that's over the pain train can get started. Oh I see, so you aren't really too convinced about the DT check plan, right? Is there any reason why? | ||
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On October 24 2009 22:59 Ace wrote: you mean the Vet idea? If not what is the outline for the DT check plan again? I just meant the plan where we select someone to lynch now so that the DTs can check them tonight, and then we'd lynch them tomorrow. Read RoL's post on this page, I guess. Whatever we do, we need to decide it pretty fast so the DTs know what to do. | ||
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On October 25 2009 00:42 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Alright can someone explain what I should do with the BG names and why? This new bg mechanic is baffling. Don't give them to mafia, remember that at least one BG is likely to be mafia, and also it might be a good idea to give the names to a person who wasn't elected in the case all the BGs were mafia and you and Ace were killed. Then you give us that player's name(the one you told to). If you and Ace die tonight or any other night the BGs are alive, that person gives us the names of the BGs and we get 2 mafia. If he's mafia and won't give names of the BGs, we kill him and get one mafia even then. If the person you told to and announced publicly gets killed by mafia, you tell the names of BGs to another person and publicly announce his name as well. Any complaints? | ||
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On October 25 2009 01:37 Amber[LighT] wrote: Obviously if you weren't elected mayor or pardoner you can't be mafia because mafia are capable of swaying the votes so they would make sure that non-mafia didn't get elected. Are you stupid? I didn't say anywhere that they had to have been running. I'm talking about 19 people here. | ||
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On October 25 2009 02:20 Ace wrote: A 75% chance he's red or blue? Where did you come up with that number :/ You just said outlined the entire reason we don't have to kill motbob - The Vet idea. The Vet steps forward and all the DTs role check him and get confirmation. At this point there's no need to kill motbob as the DTs already have used their check for the night. Killing motbob would accomplish nothing. Right now there is only one thing we need to focus on - Pyrr telling myself and another player who the bodyguards are. He still hasn't done it and time is running out. We need this information before Night 1 is over. Once we move to Day 2 I'll reveal the second part of my plan. I'm highly certain he meant red or green, for which case 75% is just about correct. If the DTs check only the vet, they won't know their sanity. Also, what makes you so sure that the DTs have used their checks? That would make the least sense. Another thing, why would Pyrr have to tell you who the BGs are? As far as I can see, that has no benefit at all. I believe that now we need to decide who we lynch tomorrow so that DTs can check him tonight. If you have a good point against this, present it. "They have most likely already used their checks" isn't one. | ||
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On October 25 2009 02:40 Ace wrote: The only role we have a total for is Reds, so there isn't any way to guess any odds related to Blue or Green. What I meant with the DTs using their checks statement is that assuming the Vet steps out before the night is over the DTs can check them out. Thats more guaranteed than guessing if motbob will die tomorrow. If Pyrr, Myself, and a 3rd player all know the Bodyguards the Mafia can't kill all 3 of us in one night. Hence THREE people are needed so the information is never lost. And once again I'll state if you want to lynch motbob there has to be some better reasoning presented here. Oh I see, if the vet steps up tonight, then you're entirely correct. I just was under the assumption that the plan was for tomorrow, but it would work for today, too. I still think it'd be a good idea to pre-select someone to lynch. If not today, then tomorrow. I guess that's a good point, although we could alternatively just medic-protect him. However, since we can't know if we even have a medic at all... yeah I guess that would be the best thing to do. I guess you'd make the most sence to be the third person then. You can't pardon yourself so even if you were mafia it should work out fine. So... in the case a vet doesn't claim tonight, what's the plan? | ||
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On October 25 2009 02:47 Ace wrote: What you think is the role count is irrelevant - you don't know so your estimate is bs. And if you think I'm fishy for winning pardoner, when you yourself just quoted the post I supposedly used to get it then don't you think it would be smarter to look at EVERYONE that voted for me instead of trying to single out motbob again? hurrrr durrrrrr? A reason for that is that he took the time to vote for you before he replied to this thread and while he was supposedly busy. This can be because 1. he had the time to read the entire thread to see who were running and found your platform promising or 2. a mafia PMed him to vote. Do you honestly not see how exactly HIS vote is suspicious, and why it would make sense to concentrate on it? You don't see anything suspicious in the way he's acting? The votes we would be tempted to look at are Vivi's and L's. L doesn't really like Ace at all from what I've seen and they never seem to agree with each other. However, they haven't really argued this game and the vote was right at the end of the day. Still, Ace was far better than tricode so it's not that bad. Vivi shouldn't like Ace either since Ace thinks that Vivi is a terrible player. Vivi also was entirely convinced that Tricode was a green, and there's only one way you can be 100% certain. Also, he said that Tricode was by far the safest option, but 10 minutes before the end of the vote changes his vote to Ace with "I wanted Tricode as mayor not pardoner", even though it's the most disasterous if a mafia gets the pardoner role. It made no sense at all to change to someone you don't even really like and who you don't think is safe off a lot safer option. Caller hasn't been doing nothing except trolling lightly the entire game, so I don't know about his role but he sure hasn't been helping the town. I guess his vote was all right, though. Normally mafia wouldn't like to be the ones to give the first vote to a person, though, especially if it's someone who'd get voted anyway. Infundibulum acted pretty reasonably and had some good points early in the game, although after that he really hasn't said more than one-liners and such. I guess there's not much suspicious about him voting for you, though. On the other side of the coin, though, would someone who's been posting as reasonably vote for someone without a platform? Well, Tricode was at the time the other choice, so that's quite understandable. Even though the emphasis is on motbob, here you go. Every person who voted for you. At least some votes were quite suspicious, especially the late swing. | ||
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On October 25 2009 03:16 L wrote: First off: the vet might not claim because if there are 2 vets in the game, both of them die and we're basically fast forwarded to day 4 with no kills. This isn't a 'small' concern. Its a huge hole in the plan. If we gamble and come up short, we're in big trouble. Second: The flip side to that is if both bodyguards are non-replacements, telling 2 additional people raises the chances that mafia learns about the bodyguards by 50%. If you're mafia, that's perfect, because you can eliminate the bodyguards, try to say one of the other information holders was the leak and then demand medic protection like you... already did. That essentially frees you up to kill whatever other office holder there is while claiming medic protection while getting the town to waste a lynch. Oh but wait, there's more. If you go through with doing so and drop a pardon onto whomever you decided to pin as the leak, now we're back 3 days, since we just wasted a day on the pardoned hit, the next day would be your death, and the day after that chances are we'd be forced to kill the pardoned person who might very well be innocent. 3 days is 6 mafia hits, putting us to a 7-1 trade for the play; not bad at all. If we're dumb and decide to hit the pardoned player before you, you might even get away scott free as you point towards the innocent corpse and state that you were trying to help town. Out of everyone in the town, telling you, or you telling pyrr when you get information is the worst possible idea; Neither of you can be DT checked when they confirm their sanity state, and neither of you can be mad hattered or vig'd once exposed. I hate to always be the negative nancy, but I'd rather not have us assume a bunch of information we don't have, then essentially get raped before even being able to play the game because of it. Awesome =) So with this, isn't the best plan to decide who to lynch and then dt check -> lynch him? | ||
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On October 25 2009 03:20 L wrote: Raped. Also I like Ace, but think Tricode's a fucking moron. My intense hatred of his gigantic buffonery should have come through rather clear. If you want, I can probably dredge up plenty of PMs between Ace and I making fun of both him and Vivi for horrendous play in prior games if you want. No need, vivi's is the vote I'm most concerned about since it sealed it. Motbob's as well. But Ace was implying the other people weren't suspicious at all but there's plenty of reason to be suspicious. | ||
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On October 25 2009 03:26 Ace wrote: I'm gonna read both your posts after I finish watching this anime porn Saying that implies that you've already read them. No need to say that at all, you could just reply when done. I don't understand this placeholder post. | ||
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I really don't know though, all the choices and possibilities are making my head ache. | ||
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On October 25 2009 06:03 Qatol wrote: We are going to day in 4 hours (assuming Ver shows up). If you have a night action, send it in soon. Translates to: Pyrr hurry up | ||
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On October 25 2009 07:07 Ace wrote: Pyrr stop stalling. Send the BG names to myself and someone who has been posting a lot in the thread. Doesn't have to be you... can be 2 people he suspects aren't mafia, if you're that concerned about both pyrr and the guy getting killed. However, the mafia most likely doesnt even have the time to send in a new hitlist with all this delaying. | ||
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What is your explanation for this course of action? | ||
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On October 25 2009 10:55 Amber[LighT] wrote: how is he supposed to trust any of you morons anyway. You guys thought foolishness was mafia oh about 20 pages ago. It's funny how you say "you guys" as a reply to a post of mine when I definitely didn't think Foolishness was mafia, at all. | ||
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On October 25 2009 11:59 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Oh and summary VOTE FOR MOTBOB Holy shit. Edit: Or Ace, at this point I am sure either is a good choice. I'm almost certain Ace is mafia if he keeps up with his motbob pardoning. Also, there really wasn't a bandwagon started against it. I actually was most likely the first one to take note of his post count at the time he voted for Ace, and it kept increasing even though he didn't talk in the thread, until he said something about his grandpa, and didn't reply to my doubts after that. It WAS highly suspicious, if you disagree you just are completely blind or totally wrong. Now Ace is going to set us back two days in this game where we really need to lower the mafia numbers asap and he also wanted the BG roles to be sent to him for no proper reason, since it could just as well be anyone other than him. I say that it's useless to vote for motbob since he'll just get pardoned. If we want to actually lynch someone and make progress, we need to vote to lynch Ace. If Ace really still doesn't see the benefit of that DT plan that now is impossible, and if he still would pardon motbob it's certain that Ace is either a mafia or that he should stop calling himself a vet, since this is some of the most shitty play I've ever seen from a townie pardoner. In other news, what the hell is this? "From: RebirthOfLeGenD [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: yo Date: 10/25/09 11:33 Sup" Fishing is forbidden in these waters. | ||
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On October 25 2009 12:39 Tricode wrote: Should we take a risk of doing a double lynch in hopes to catch up on what we missed? no | ||
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Ace still is fishy. It's nowhere near guaranteed you're a DT, not even likely. RCing Judge was a pretty bad move for a player like you. Why wouldn't you RC someone more likely to die, someone who's been contributing a lot or has annoyed a lot of people? This RC makes no sense at all. I already addressed the pardoning issue as well, that's just bad play. Really, the pardon thing and "a suspicious bandwagon against the most useless player who has been acting suspicious and hasn't contributed at all" is just a load of crap. | ||
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On October 26 2009 02:13 L wrote: Ace keeps saying that he needs to know the bodyguards names so that he can check them. He says he needs to do so in order to find out what blue is. He points someone to the bodyguard role to chastise them, yet ignores this: as was pointed out by RoL. If he had read the text he pointed to, he would know this. But here's the problem. Ace wasn't told the bodyguard names by pyrr as far as we can tell, so how would he know that they're both blue? The answer is fairly obvious: he knows how many people were subbed in. How? Well, that's pretty obvious, isn't it? His check is on someone random and he is preventing us from going ahead with our day 1 plan to have a confirmed check, which he follows up by asking for bodyguard protection despite stating that the bodyguards are innocent. What have we learned here: ace is mafia, and both bodyguards are innocent. Alternate version: Ace doesn't FUCKING READ THE GODDAM RULES AND IS PLAYING LIKE A BUCKET OF ASSBALLS. :3 I can't help but come to the exact same conclusion. Either Ace is mafia or he's playing like complete garbage. | ||
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"Don't kill active, contributing players. Even if you think Tricode is worthless right now with no clues to go on killing actives will hurt even more at this point." So if we can't kill active players and can't kill the most inactive player in the game because "there is a 5% chance he's the veteran" who the hell can we kill? | ||
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On October 26 2009 02:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: They appear as blue unless they are red, the bodyguard role itself is a "blue" role. "unless they are red" yes | ||
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Around page 20, Foolishness talked for a long time about Pyrr being suspicious and voting for him being suspicious as well. Caller obviously was going to lynch Pyrr when elected. | ||
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Implies that Ace thinks that DT checking is important. However, later in the thread he greatly downplayed the importance of DTs being able to find out their sanities, namely with his arguments for pardoning and for not agreeing to lynch motbob today. | ||
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Later on he talks about giving the names to him as if it was common sense. | ||
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Before Ace posted "Pyrr can't trust me right now so he has no incentive to give me their names and I also can't confirm anything about him. " as I mentioned earlier. Without anything happening in between or any discussion about the reasons to give Ace the BG names, Ace suddenly says that. Interesting. Oh, "Once we move to Day 2 I'll reveal the second part of my plan. " interesting. One more thing that I just realized. Ace has always been proud about not having to ever reveal his role to anyone to win in mafia. Why would he suddenly claim DT in this game? | ||
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On October 26 2009 04:38 L wrote: Short version: He kills them. Not to mention that he always wants to not give any clues about his role or claim it. In this game he first continuously hinted about it and in the end claimed. Not suspicious at all, especially if his other actions are taken into consideration. For those with broken brains, it is highly suspicious. | ||
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For those with broken brains: It is highly suspicious. | ||
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On October 26 2009 05:36 redtooth wrote: i already talked about this. this is too obvious a connection in my opinion. Yes, it's so obvious that I believe it's more likely that someone tried some sort of framing. | ||
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Why the fuck didn't you say that we'd lynch judge today and that every DT should check him? It'd have been the same. Expect that every other DT would have been able to confirm their sanity as well. You're playing so selfish there's no way you can be town at all. Or you've just lost all of your skill. And yes, your pardoner style isn't consistent with your past behavior. Scum. | ||
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First of all I already explained why the Mafia can't kill Judge assuming he's innocent. It would confirm myself and Judge's role. I'd be confirmed DT on Day 3 without the possibility of being killed. Unless you weren't a DT and in fact are mafia(I believe this is the case). In this case you can kill judge as mafia, say something about finding out your sanity, then you get a free "dt check" on some other townie and tell the town to lynch them or you can hit them, and then you're a "confirmed dt with confirmed sanity" and by the time we notice, you can pardon someone if we haven't caught up yet. At this point like 5 days have passed and we lose. Second of all I would check both BGs to make sure they both flip the same color. If they flip differently one is Mafia. Really simple. Both should appear "blue". As If Judge dies, whatever color he flips/role I compare it to the BGs and I know whats what. Any RC I do from then in I already know what's what. Why would you need to check both BGs, since 1. You don't know which of them actually is Mafia if both are different 2. You yourself said that it's all or nothing. You said that they would sub both or none. Why do you suddenly even think there's a possibility of just one subbed BG when you completely dismissed the idea earlier? How would checking both BGs who turn up the same color prove your sanity, when you can't know if they're blue or red? I believe this is just a plan to get the BGs' names from Pyrr. Don't give them. Lastly this is no mind trick. This is a really simple plan that just means the Mafia will be dead in a few days. But your just more worried about me pulling some elaborate ruse over your eyes than reading the posts. So Motbob must be mafia. I pardoned him for no reason? You mean the reason other than...you guys didn't have a legit reason for lynching him? I'd honestly pardon any player that you guys vote for with no good reasoning as the Mafia KP isn't high, they lose in time due to confirmed DTs and their are only 21 players in the game. I'm 100% certain I'm smarter than you and this proves it. We've killed because of inactivity on the first day because - they were inactive. Motbob was accused of being inactive, then he posted. He's no longer inactive. But then someone says "o he posted after that in another forum!" - why does it matter? Other players have BARELY posted and yet you're all still set on lynching him. That looks more suspicious than anything else. What? Motbob voted for you at 15:57. He had posts in live report threads between 13:00 and like 18:00. This means he had the time to 1. Read the topic to know you were running 2. Watch the Starcraft games. His post count was 3824 the first time I noticed his vote post, which was 2 hours before he posted about his grandpa. His post count was 3832 17 hours later. Inactive? Maybe, but you don't find this suspicious? At all? His post that "proved that he isn't inactive" was this: On October 23 2009 03:55 motbob wrote: My grandpa died and I'm helping make preparations for his funeral so I'll be super inactive until Sunday. Sorry Hey I didn't know you were this unintelligent, so let me spell it out for you: Super. Inactive. Understood? Super inactive. After he posted this, he suddenly becomes active? What the? Hey I know other people haven't posted alot, for example scamp hasn't for like 14 pages. But they still posted more than motbob's one post where he said he'll be SUPER INACTIVE. How can you say he wasn't inactive? Do you even know what the word means? He's also the person with least posts in the entire game. He also voted for you early without responding to the thread while replying to other threads in the forum. And you say it's not suspicious? What the bleep? *sadly its moderated*, but what you said about motbob's activity is complete and utter garbage. As I've already said, it's most likely that a mafia(like, say, you) just told him to vote and he did it although he was busy. Still, what you said about his lack of inactivity makes it crystal clear that you both are mafia. The Pardoner ability is never used because honestly most players that get the role have no idea how powerful it is. Like I said there's one thing in every Mafia game that is always consistent - I've never been wrong. Not once has my judgment led the town in the wrong direction. Ever. Plenty of times I've stuck my neck out to say someone is most likely innocent or there isn't enough proof based on bandwagoning and every single time I've been right. Motbob may be Mafia but we aren't going to start killing people off of hunches. Most people have no idea how powerful it is. Yes, like, YOU in the last game you were a pardoner? So you weren't wrong then, but you now are acting completely differently than then? This means that you have a different alignment than you had then. Like, mafia? Also, that's a terrible ad hominem argument. Not to mention that you're wrong. Hunches? It's a method of gaining intelligence for DTs. He also is the MOST inactive player in the thread, who said that he'd be super inactive until... Oh, yesterday. Well I haven't seen much activity out of him today either! Have you? Stop those ad hominem arguments. Say why you're not wrong this time. Don't say you're correct because you always have been, since it's nothing short of a lie. Especially since you're mafia and in that case won't even try to play for the good of the town. Actually, using this kind of an argument implies that you're desperate. I did not decide Judge was Paramedic. That's what I got back when I role checked him. Stop making stuff up. I haven't even talked to judge privately as I rarely PM players unless I have a reason. I don't know if Judge is innocent or not. If I was playing fishy I'd have easily kept the information to myself. By making it public I put a consequence on myself or Judge dying if the Mafia kill either of us. Why on earth did you think Judge would be killed by Mafia? What were you even trying to accomplish by checking him? It's the worst check ever. Why wouldn't you either help the rest of the DTs or check someone who contributes a lot and has a good chance of getting killed off? Also, why the fuck would you roleclaim DT when in past games you have 1. Been proud about NEVER revealing your role in ANY mafia game 2. Immediately lynched players who claim DT? Well I know why. It's because you're mafia and claiming DT might let you gain information, lead the town, and keep you from getting lynched. Not going to fly here. At this point it looks like you are trying to force my lynch by any means necessary. Looking at the posts I skimmed past it looks like a few knuckleheads are trying to go the same route. But the voting thread hasn't changed at all which means one of you is probably mafia waiting for someone else to vote so you can jump on the train. But I'll address that too. Hold on the rape train doesn't stop here. I think I am trying to force your lynch far more than him, but that was still a skilled observation by you. I was waiting for your response before voting for you, and you delivered. That's why I voted for you, although I think I would have anyway. Read more about what I think in my vote post. I checked Judge on Night 1 because I didn't have any BG names and the Vet never stepped forward. Duh? Why does it matter who I checked then? You're bringing attention to something that has no bearing on my motives. If any of the 3 prime choices for checking aren't there I had to pick someone instead of you know, not using my unlimited role checks. So maybe you could have, say, told the town that we'd lynch player X tomorrow, and told all DTs to check him. Tada, it helps the I've already shown no one needs to die for me to figure out their sanity. Think a little. Tonight the rest of the Detectives can all check Judge and see for themselves what color he is. I can check the BGs Nights 2 and 3. Doesn't matter what color they flip. I'll be damn near sure what sanity I am. If Judge dies thats it - game over. I know my sanity. I'll publicly post this. The other DTs will also known their sanity. Hence, Judge is protected from death. Medics can choose to save another target. We move on to the next day and the cycle repeats. No one needs to be lynched off of shitty hunches. If a DT already checked motbob fine, let them keep checking other people. If motbob is mafia we'll find out eventually. But you won't be lynching him off of non-credible hunches because some random guy said "o he's inactive!" when Scamp hasn't even posted much either. How would the real DTs checking Judge help AT ALL since as you said, he's not going to die anyway and they have NO WAY of knowing what his role even is? Checking Judge is in no way different from the real DTs checking someone random. They have just as much chance of getting their sanities verified in that way, except that the mafia won't actually avoid lynching them like they would be avoiding Judge. Oh yes, and you checking both BGs really doesn't help at all because they could both be red or both be blue and you'd have no way of knowing. The only way this would work is if one BG was mafia. Couldn't you even figure that out? Apparently. Earlier, you even said that this is impossible or highly likely for mafia to have subbed only one BG. Now your entire plan hinges on that being the case. Sounds credible! Some random guy? Hunches? Dude, I posted more credible things about him than you have posted about you being a DT, so strip that attitude. He's the most inactive person in the thread, who also happened to vote for YOU. Who do you think you are kidding? Scamp hasn't posted much and definitely is suspicious. Not as suspicious though. Oh, and later on in your post you say that you haven't tried to point at any people. You seem to be hinting quite a bit to Scamp's direction, though. Now as for your misreading of the rules and my plan, let me explain (I'm going to have to do this more than once). A color in quotes represents what they show up to me as, a color in CAPS represents what they really are game wise. You're wrong! That was pretty quick, especially for someone who blames others for misreading the rules. The BGs can appear to be red as well. Please read the rules before you post, you're making a fool out of yourself. Also, even if both always showed up as blue, you've only confirmed your role to 50/50. In two nights. Same thing that could have been accomplished in one night. It's too bad that the plan is completely ruined by BGs being able to appear to be Mafia, as well. Judge shows up as "blue". I don't know his real role. Bodyguards are a BLUE role. If the bodyguards both don't flip the same color one of them is Mafia. Point blank. I rolecheck the Bodyguards. It does not matter what color they flip. If they flip "blue" that means them and Judge all have the same role. This means either all 3 are Mafia or all 3 are legit blues. If they flip any other color but blue and match I know it's highly possible Judge is plain green. You'll know one of them is Mafia. You don't know which, though. This is the only way your plan gives you something. You can't know if they're all mafia or all blue roles. So you gain nothing of importance. So in this, the most likely case, in 3 days you're able to confirm that Judge is "most likely" green? Sounds like an amazing accomplishment in 3 days!!! Not like we couldn't have, say, almost guaranteed every DT to figure their sanities out by picking who to lynch first two days in a row. Oh, you don't want to lynch people for no reason, right? Well news flash, Ace! We need to lynch people to be able to kill the mafia. Since when have you been such a scared player? Oh man what if we don't hit a mafia... well then out DTs figure their sanities out, and then we catch some mafia! It's a lot better than your plan that's able to figure out that 1. One of BGs can be mafia but we don't know which 2. BGs and Judge are same role but we don't know which 3. Judge is most likely green in three days, only for yourself. How is this beneficial to the town?? This is a team game, not a solo game. Oh, did I mention that this plan requires Pyrr to tell you who the BGs are? That instantly makes this a completely failed plan. If they appear any color and I never see that color again in a future RC I know that both of them are Mafia. If any of the bodyguards die I know they are legit and I now know my sanity. Remember the rules say Mafia bodyguards appear as RED not BLUE. So I automatically know by not seeing what RED appears as to me ever again if they'd be legit. This isn't hard to understand. Do you even know that this would happen on night 4, and if we lynch our first mafia on day 5 we're screwed anyway? Not to mention that the other plan figures all DTs' sanities out by day three! You can't even guarantee your sanity like this until it's too late. Also, you say "This isn't hard to understand". I guess you say that as a since you know that some people are having a difficulty understanding the plan in order to make you seem far superior, but the statement isn't true at all. Even if I understand everything you said, I still find it impossibly difficult to understand, assuming you were town, WHY you would do this kind of a horrendous plan that lets you figure your sanity in like 5 days, which is way too late in the first place and doesn't help any other possible DTs at all. The other, checking-and-lynching plan would have let every DT know their sanity by day 3, day 4 in worst case scenario. I don't understand, if you're town, why you're against lynching so much. Lynching for information is usually far better than having an inactive amongst which the mafia can hide. You're ought to know this, too. There's no hope for you. Believe whatever you want. Oh that I do, although I don't need your permission for that. You are wrong about something, though. You are the one with no hope. I like it how you completely bypassed my post. Scared? Oh god, some red text next. Gonna be a pain in the ass to read. I know the bodyguards if Mafia will show up as MAFIA. DURRRRR! Now time to own you, moron. This is the last time I'm going to explain this. You guys are so fucking SLOW it's funny. Judge appears "blue". Let's assume he's innocent. Doesn't matter if he is BLUE OR GREEN. If the bodyguards are Mafia they will be RED, as in they appear as MAFIA to a normal role check. A RED player can appear as anything to me. We know this. But I just checked Judge. So... If a bodyguard appears "blue" to me, I know them and Judge all have the same type. If all 3 appear "blue" I'm almost positive Judge is innocent at that point. If both bodyguards don't appear the same color one is guaranteed Mafia. There's no denying this. Let's say the bodyguards both appear "green" to me. I know what they should be though - BLUE. If any of them happen to die I am virtually guaranteed my sanity. Same thing happens with Judge. Let's say they appear "red" to me. Same thing. However let's also say I keep rolechecking people and I never see another "red". Ever. Or I rolechecked someone, who appeared "green" to me, they ended up dying and flipped a BLUE role. Both bodyguards are Mafia because if they were really BLUE they should have appeared "green" to me, not "red" because a legit BLUE just died and flipped "green" to me. Let's not assume Judge is innocent. Why would we do that? If both the bodyguards appear as red, it proves that red means either red or blue. What does that prove? Nothing. You still need more rolechecks to confirm your sanity. A lot more than the other plan, which would also let other DTs to confirm their sanities in two, maybe three days, and, important: Doesn't require Pyrr to give you the BG into. That's the biggest loophope of your plan. It's highly unlikely that all three will show up as the same color, since there most likely aren't more than 3-4 blues in the game anyway. But even if that incredibly unprobable scenario happens, you're able to... figure that they're the same color. Either mafia or blue. But you won't know more. You need another day to figure that out, and then it's day 5 where it's too late to kill the first mafia anyway if we want to win. I like how you say this first as if this is somehow probable. I don't know the exact %, but I'd say that the chance for them all being the same color, if roles were chosen randomly, would just be a couple of silly %'s. And even with that small of a chance you get NOTHING definitive. Sounds like a plan! If they both appear green to you, it means that both the BGs are same color, but doesn't tell you anything else. You also have no clue about your sanity. A good use of 3 days... not. You could assume that green would mean blue in that case, but you still wouldn't be able to know Judge's role at all and need another check to know your sanity. 4 days for confirming sanity. For only one DT. This plan is so slow and overly complicated, and it still hinges on you getting BG info. Which you hopefully won't get. Which immediately makes the plan impossible. If they both appear red to you, red either means red or blue, you figured nothing out except that they both are same color. Same as above, 4 days to figure your sanity instead of 2 days for EVERY DT instead of one with that other plan. Instead of saying that, let's say that we need to lynch a mafia the next day or we can't win. You can't infinitely keep R/Cing people, you need to nail mafias asap. We can't waste 4 days to figure your sanity out. This plan makes no sense if you're DT. If you turn out to be a DT this game, I want you to address Tricode as His Majesty to make up for calling him a bad player even though you're playing so much worse. Motbob wasn't inactive, stop trying that shit. 1. Look at the part about him earlier in this post 2. Dictionary definition for you since it seems like you have forgotten what the word means: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inactivity You're wrong. He was and still is inactive. Nice that you couldn't address anything properly except via an incorrect statement. Now you're making stuff up. I never downplayed the importance of DTs figuring out their sanity. I made it very well known you won't be lynching motbob because of random accusations. So once again, you're wrong. I'm sorry, but you did say that all DTs checking motbob and then lynching him wasn't important enough and talked something about a bandwagon. Can't be arsed to go back to see that post, although I think I've addressed it before. Before that you pardoned him using the DTs' inability to check as a partial reason. We would have lynched motbob because of him being the most inactive poster in the thread and also as a means of figuring out the DTs' sanities. I'm not wrong. You are. Sorry. Durr because it was? Before Night 1 he doesn't have any idea what role I can be. Day 2 I roleclaim and publicly let everyone know who I rolechecked. This gives the possibility to know my role on 2 fronts and allows you to know if I was really Mafia I'd be an idiot for letting you know about the BG switch AND putting myself up to the magnifying glass. It was common sense that at that point you could trust me with the BG names because if both BGs are legit and ended up dying the next night then obviously who's the only person that could be Mafia? Me. Think ahead silly. We weren't talking about "before night 1" at all. During night 1, rather. I don't understand why you couldn't have role claimed then and have all the other DTs check Judge as well. Did you think that the Mafia, if they had subbed both BGs, would now be more likely to hit you than before? No, they would have hit you anyway, wether you claimed or not, if that was your plan. It made no sense to wait until claiming then. Of course you wouldn't kill them right away, you're supposedly too smart for that. Seriously, I was notified for using the wine-in-front-of-me argument too much, but you are using it all the time. You still definitely aren't any safer to trust the info with than anyone else, and I still don't think the info should be given to you. Ever. Stop your bullshit. We are right on schedule. I have no Vets and no BGs yet. Doesn't matter who I checked. There is no Vet plan as the Vet hasn't claimed. Judge isn't going to be killed either as I'll just pardon him unless someone shows some real good analysis on him. Why on earth would you pardon Judge if his death would help you figure your sanity? Also, you completely forgot about choosing people to lynch and DTs checking them. I guess your 5-day-sanity-figure-and-be-too-late-to-do-anything is a better plan. Not. Oh that's extremely simple really. In past games I've never revealed my role unless I had to. This game I can easily reveal my role because look at the ruleset and the circumstances: KP of 2, I'm in office, and I can prove my sanity quickly. With the possibilty of a BG switch I had to hope to survive Night 1 so I could roleclaim Day 2. Now we're at Day 2. I roleclaim DT right? Right. Now pay attention. If I die before any bodyguards show up dead, both BGs are Mafia. Pyrr releases the name, if he doesn't he's Mafia. Simple really. 2 Mafia or 1 Mafia dead. I also post my Rcs publicly. If I die or they die I'm further along on my sanity and/or the town gets more information on who's really what. So now I've put pressure on the Mafia to kill me before I find out my sanity and just have a role list and turn this into Mafia 2. They only have a KP of 2 so there isn't much damage they can do fast enough to stop me. Of course this also assumes the town is paying attention and not arguing with me and that's why we have the situation we do now. What would it have to do with you surviving night 1? Are you honestly suggesting that they'd switch both BGs and wouldn't kill you if you weren't mafia regardless if you claimed DT? What the fuck? It would have been so much better to claim on night 1 and say tell every DT to check the same person, who we'd lynch the next day. Actually, you wouldn't have to claim at all. You say you can prove your sanity quickly. Yes, optimally you'll have it proven by night 4, so you use a check on night 5, and we get something concrete of it on day 6, when the game is almost over already. How the fuck is that "quick"? And you still had no reason at all to R/C DT if you actually were a DT. Unless you wanted the BG names and more credibility to get them. So it makes the most sense that you didn't sub two BGs, or you's know them. Oh yeah, you kept hinting that you were DT even before you claimed. Mafia could have easily picked that up, so you make no sense. They'd have definitely killed you, open claim or not. You're further along your sanity yes, but way behind the plan to figure sanities out by day 3. Your plan gets us ONE DT's sanity in 5-6 days. Terrible. Town doesn't get any information unless you die since we can't know if you are DT because of your super slow sanity plan. Town will know that you're bullshitting by like day 6, and that's way too late. A role list on day 6 doesn't do shit for us because at that point we're already pretty much mathematically beaten. Yes they can do it fast enough because your plan is so slow. And why wouldn't we argue with you if you're playing so bad? We aren't voting just to fucking kill people for the sake of killing them. Get this through your dumb skull. We aren't going to just fucking pardon people for the sake of pardoning them. Get this through your dumb skull. Also, we're not doing it just for killing, we're doing it for information. Now we get to my favorite part, the wine-in-front-of-me arguments! 1.)Ace is Mafia. Why would he bring attention to the fact that bodyguards can be subbed in? If he was was Mafia he would have kept that aspect quiet, hoping no one believed it. He also wouldn't have run for a role and just killed 2 possible innocents in office on Night 1. Of course he didn't do this so ok his possibility of being guilty aren't as high but he's still fishy. 2.) He roleclaims DT on Day 2. He said he had a plan on Day 1 and wanted some critical information. He also supported the Vet idea. Why? If he was Mafia surely he'd want to kill the bodyguards if Pyrr gave him the info...however he publicly roleclaimed on Day 2 and posted the result of his check. Damn. No Mafia fake claiming a DT would ever do that because now he is accountable on multiple fronts. Sure it also gives him multiple ways to prove he is a legit DT via behavior but he's gotta be lying right? 3.) Shit, Ace can't be Mafia. I just realized that his rolecheck plan when I pull my head outta my ass makes perfect sense. It does add up! Also if Ace was Mafia why hasn't he tried to accuse anyone by now, or lead the town to lynch an innocent? He's playing defensive trying to preserve lives rather than kill just anyone. 4.) Ace has to be legit. Dang, lemme stop being an idiot and actually listen to him. We've ignored his advice in games before and got fucked over when he was actually innocent and gave us the keys to winning. 1. Because anyone knows this and no one would miss this. I at least would have pointed it out. You brought attention to the fact so that you could make that very argument, since you knew that it had no harm because people would notice anyway. Also, you didn't mention/didn't say it was smart subbing only one BG, so it's likely that this is exactly what you have done. 2. How are you accountable on both fronts? He can just say his sanity was what it was. As I said, with your system you figure your sanity out by like Day 5, after which it's too late to kill you off anyway. Especially if you pardon a mafia before that. Or even an innocent, since we have to lynch him again anyway. Did you mention that you didn't support the check-into-lynch idea? Didn't think so. You most likely supported the vet idea because you thought it was the lesser good for the town and thought it'd be suspicious if you didn't support either. 3. Yes you can, you didn't say anything that would make it seem like you're not a mafia. That's a terrible conclusion to make with all the holes in this wine defense. The rolecheck plan doesn't make sense because it's too late to do anything on day 5 or 6 which is when you are able to figure your sanity out(instead of 3 with the other plan). Also, you need BG info for this. Also, you haven't done that so that you could use this wine argument. Although, you did point at Scamp before, but I don't know if that counts. About playing defensively, if motbob and you are mafia, it's pretty clear why you'd want to spare his life. 4. Still waiting for those keys, since you've given us nothing but the keys to a crushing defeat. Also, you can do better than using an ad hominem argument. Or can you? Doubt it. I guess I'll post this and get to the other posts after a while, I wrote this for almost 2 hours straight. | ||
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On October 26 2009 11:01 dreamflower wrote: In the interest of lynching someone who isn't an elected official and has been acting suspiciously, I'd like to mention Vivi57 and Chezinu as people we could possibly agree to lynch. Both have been fairly quiet this game and, as far as I know, haven't contributed much in their posts. I specifically remember Vivi saying he wanted to vote Tricode for the first lynch, only to vote for Tricode as mayor. Then he switches at the last minute to Ace, because "he wanted Tricode as mayor, not pardoner," even though Tricode was demonstrating he was pretty clearly town-aligned at that point and a townie pardoner seems like a valuable thing to have. Instead, he joined a late vote swing to push someone else into office. Chezinu also hasn't posted much of value, as far as I can tell. Mostly some rhymes in response to Bloodycobbler's (in which the pupil seems to have surpassed his master in terms of quality). He also made an early post stating how he was "brown" (a mix of red and green, I assume?), yet also insinuating he was the mad hatter. It seemed like he was trying to justify not posting much in the game by trying to emulate a blue or green role. I mention this whole thing partly because I'm very hesitant to lynch any elected office so early, or even active players like Amber[light], which seems the likely outcome if everyone joins in the finger-pointing. Now that everyone's accounted for and has had time to post, I think it's better if we all agree to lynch someone acting suspicious and unhelpful (like Vivi or Chezinu) and get the detectives to rolecheck them to find out their sanity. I completely agree with you about both vivi and chezinu. However, with Ace as the pardoner, he can pardon either of them with something stupid like "not enough evidence" and we have to lynch him anyway. This sets us back by an entire day and I don't want to risk this. That's one of the main reasons I believe that we need to lynch Ace. L's post at the end of page 39 is great and I agree with it. Also, Ace's defense halfway through the page is pathetic and a sign of resignment. On October 26 2009 11:26 Ace wrote: RoL you're an idiot. I already I would have went along with a Vet plan IF THE VET STEPPED UP. There's no need to lynch anyone just to confirm DTs. The Mafia has a shitty KP of TWO. Anyone proclaiming we need to lynch townies so the DTs can be claimed in two days is a fucking fool. Just be patient and let the Mafia bleed to death. This is exactly why you're always mentioned in the bottom rung of player tiers because you are so fucking slow. My entire plan gives ALL the DTs credibility because everytime I check someone and announce it they can check them too. Once I figure out my sanity and let everyone know, they by tuen are just about guaranteed their sanity else. Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Normally it's not a good idea to call people smarter than you idiots. There definitely is a need to lynch someone to confirm a DT, unless we want to hope for them to be killed by the mafia. As I've already said, your garbage method is way too slow and unreliable. Don't you know they'd just be normal lynches that we'd just decide on earlier so that the DTs could check them the night before? We would be lynching mafia suspects like that, of course. Do you really think we'd just aimlessly lynch people? Are you really that stupid? You figure your sanity by the 5th day and we can lynch a person based on your information on the 6. day. We can't miss any lynches or we lose. A terrible plan. Do you even know the purpose of lynches? It's killing mafia. Why do you keep saying we'd be lynching townies? We'd be lynching mafia. Do you think pardoning helps thinning out the mafia numbers? No it doesn't. Why the durrrrr? It makes it sound as if it's obvious that you're right, but it definitely isn't. In fact, you are wrong. Durr my ass. On October 26 2009 11:33 L wrote: L said almost what I meant to say, but let me write my own response:We were never lynching people just to confirm DTs. The Idea was we'd choose during the night so that the DT could check prior to the day we lynch so we save a day/night cycle. Do you even read shit? Yes we are. Bite me. Seriously though, we're lynching people to kill mafia. Confirming sanities is just a side effect. Get a clue. On October 26 2009 11:36 Ace wrote: That idea was not chosen. The idea was Vet confirmation. RoL has been bitching because I won't allow Motbob to die. I checked Judge and reveal it and now all of a sudden it's well why didn't you say to kil Judge? DURR. How many times do I have to tell you - no one is dying for confirmations. None. Unless there's a good argument for why someone should be lynched I'll pardon them. The Mafia have a measly KP of 2 and you're all hell bent on rolling people just because. Not happening. Not chosen by whom? It's not like you decide. Also, the plans don't close each other out. We could very well do both. Also, if you had announced you're a DT on night 1 and told other DTs to check him and then we'd have lynched him today, that wouldn't really be a problem, now would it? Stop calling the mafia KP measly, it will still kill the town if we don't lynch any mafia. Sorry about some of the language in these couple of posts. If I am allowed to, I can edit them to be less offensive if necessary. However, I think that you need to fight fire with fire. | ||
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On October 26 2009 09:10 motbob wrote: You're wrong. If a team sends out a zerg, it's a 33% chance the match will be mirror if the other team sends out a random player. Thus, mirror matches "should" occur 33% of the time. Guess who's back. | ||
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On October 27 2009 08:09 Ace wrote: and I find it funny Shikyo is so stupid to think I'd fake Dt, so we can lynch Judge who could be mafia so I could "trick the town". Yes, I'd kill 1 of only 4 people on my team for that. Brilliant Shikyo. Epic really. What? If you are a mafia judge obviously isn't a mafia as well. He'd be an innocent who you'd get the town to lynch in hopes of proving your sanity. Seriously. I write like 30 pages and that's what you can come up with? And you dare to insult my intelligence? Scum. | ||
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However, I thought that that plan was quite bad and I remember I wrote it to the big post but I think I supposedly deleted it. if I didn't though, ignore that part. | ||
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shouldn't post when I'm tired -.- | ||
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On October 27 2009 18:28 motbob wrote: The whole rhyming thing is making this thread really hard to read TT Wow Shikyo, you were so wrong it's ridiculous :\ thanks for accusing me of using my grandpa's death to help me in my mafia game. I won't bring this up again... let's put this shit behind us, I dunno if you have a problem with me for some reason but whatever. Tomorrow we HAVE to lynch Chezinu. 100% we have to. I'm dead serious. He's acting exactly like last game, where he was my team's GF. I don't think he's GF (I doubt any mafia team would elect him such) but I am super super convinced that he's mafia. Also, last game I pushed the idea that Foolishness was the town MVP pretty hard in the secret mafia forum. For this reason I am positive that one of the following is mafia: Chezinu, Pyrr, RoL. Foolishness has not done anything special enough in this game to merit a night kill and the only reason that he would be killed would be because of a good reputation from previous games. I'm convinced that only those 3 people would have the feeling that Foolishness is dangerous to mafia. Also, I'm fairly sure SugiuraMidori is town simply on the merit of his first ordering of suspects. O_o I have nothing against you, but you were acting suspiciously in my eyes. I always look at the wrong places, though. Also Foolishness has been the town MVP just about every game he's survived to the end, he's really good even though people like Ace call him bad. That's why it was unlikely he was protected. I also agree with you that he'd have to have been killed by someone intelligent and also by someone who knows how good of a player he can be. Another thing to note is that I still think Ace definitely was making no sense and I highly doubt he was voted because of my pressing alone. I think that quite a few people thought he was acting suspiciously. This is why, to me it is suspicious if someone was absolutely certain that Ace wasn't mafia, since the only people who could know that for sure would be the mafia. However, I might be thinking about this too deeply again, and someone simply didn't see what made no sense. -_- Redtooth at the start used some half-arsed arguments against Tricode and then completely disappeared after the action started. Normally the "hey hes talking in this way faking anger" stuff are poor arguments by mafia as has been stated in the past. One of my main suspects. Another one would be Scamp, who has been quiet for a long time for no obvious reason. He's been doing the same stuff he always does as mafia. However, can he be mafia again for like the 547982th time in a row? Why not, so I think he'd be a good suspect. Vivi57 has been one of the most suspicious people with his Ace vote and his flawed reasoning. It'd make sense for him to be mafia along with the argument for him being certain about tricode's innocense so early on and then switching away at the last second. But things don't always make sense so maybe he just makes no sense and is a townie instead. Who knows? Chezinu hasn't said anything important and only talked about whatever brown stuff he always talks about. Same kind of stuff that he did the last time he was mafia, but I don't know if he'd do this anyway. Pyrrhuloxia I'm not sure about. Need to see more. I guess I'll have to change my style of playing since assuming that people make sense and play well doesn't really seem to work out ever. | ||
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On October 28 2009 11:46 Scamp wrote: This isn't good logic at all. You need more reasoning that just that. Also, you're mafia. More news at 5:30. EBWOP: And Scamp is most likely mafia | ||
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On October 28 2009 12:19 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: OMG. Why can no one follow a fucking plan. All we have as a town are a few isolated pockets of sanity like Dreamflower and myself. Then we have a bunch of cocksure loners and this game we must have five people fighting over The vet claim plan is in action. Or what were you referring to? | ||
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On October 28 2009 12:22 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Please, regale me with these brilliant reasons, o enlightened one. Umm... L roleclaimed Veteran. Or what do you mean? No riddles please, it's way too late | ||
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On October 28 2009 12:22 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Please, regale me with these brilliant reasons, o enlightened one. Oh that. Because he'd get killed the next night since the game is likely to have only one medic because 2 would be imbalanced especially with a vet in it. | ||
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On October 28 2009 12:27 Vivi57 wrote: ruh roh Cheating: Expecting hosts to take necessary actions.Cheating includes (but is not limited to) the following and will get you banned from future games: 1. Posting after death. One polite goodbye post is acceptable but please do not post anything which could POSSIBLY affect the game. 2. Betraying your role and ruining the game for everyone by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account / checking their PMs / looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. This is not a photoshop competition. 6. Posting any PM you receive from a host. | ||
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On October 28 2009 12:52 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Oh i thought the vet plan was to protect the vet with medics and pass info on and organize or whatever. It was to DT check the vet and in that way to keep the mafia from hitting him because they'd help the DTs figure their sanities. Also, they'd be wasting their precious KP killing a vet who highly likely would be protected, so the vet would most likely be safe even without medic prot. | ||
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On October 28 2009 13:22 SugiuraMidori wrote: Not to spam.. but I guess I should update my list.... 5. RebirthofLegend 6. Bloodyc0bbler 8. Amber[Light] 9. Pyrrhuloxia 10. L <-- just claimed as Vet role 11. Tricode 12. Vivi57 <-- same as redtooth 13. Infundibulum 14. Sugiuramidori <-- not red (Shikyo and Chez know my role) 15. Scamp 16. Shikyo <--10% red 18. Motbob <-- mostly based on what others have pointed out as a probability 19. Redtooth <-- same as vivi 20. Heavonearth <-- not red 21. Chezinu Even though your list makes sense otherwise... Scamp, Redtooth, Vivi, Judge doesn't really... seem like a likely mafia team. Then again, I guess that doesn't really matter. | ||
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On October 28 2009 18:42 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Yeah but what motbob is wondering is WHY they are both mafia. how did you arrive at such a conclusion? I don't really see it either. Vivi's voting for Ace to be the Pardoner although he thought that Tricode was the most likely green for sure, but still switched away. Also, that kind of non-mafia pairs would be extremely rare in this kind of a game with DTs not knowing their sanity until after a couple of days. The other choices would be medic block or blind trust. Medic block is impossible and blind trust isn't really likely, so the logical conclusion is obvious. This of course assumes that they both actually are in the same team, so I guess you should take the time to read through their post history and see what you think. | ||
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SugiuraMidori, you don't know everything, but let's just say for now that umm... you're overestimating my skills. Looking forward to see how Scamp vs L turns out, hopefully I'll have something interesting for you guys tomorrow. | ||
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On October 29 2009 11:25 SugiuraMidori wrote: My dear Tricode, it is a well known fact, and one Qatol forgot to observe till now, that the Mayor counts for two votes. I'm sorry Shikyo, I guess I just see you as a good player, on my level, pardon the overestimation. Well dnno, you're wrong. Also, I don't think me and Pyrr have ever resembled like we've acted in a team. | ||
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On October 30 2009 01:56 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Want to live, Make more compelling arguments because well shikyo has been using chez as a mouthpiece most of the game(he rolled with it because shikyo took advantage of knowing no one would talk to the guy all game). One single time instead of "most of the game", sorry. In the thread he said a mafia has been giving him orders. Would he say that if we both were mafia? Think so? Or even if he himself was mafia? Maybe I could be mafia and he could be innocent, believe that if you like. | ||
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 30 2009 04:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Thats typically how this game works. um what? | ||
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Then again no one is going to believe me so I guess I'm screwed TT | ||
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Lulssss | ||
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 31 2009 12:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Or i guess you can just admit your red lol | ||
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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