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On February 15 2010 11:28 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 11:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Ace wasn't arguing? Are you kidding? ok now we're arguing with no goal in mind but let me just prove why you are wrong. those posts are so nostalgic: they sound like every other game where Ace and L start off by accusing each other. guess what? in this game nobody listened to ace and just shrugged off his arguments. it wasn't until i started defending him that shit really hit the fan. then everybody started talking, ace backed off and game started moving. and damage control? for what? because you think i'm mafia? or because L (who i was arguing against) and a large chunk of the town realize that i'm town aligned by now. lol you can 'start discussions' with clue analysis all you want. i'll do it by arguing against whoever is talking and randomly/halfheartedly accusing people (chezinu, BC, BM, L) to see their responses. also, if you still don't realize that Ace and i aren't aligned then omg you are slow. you are starting to seem more and more scummy, playing a lot like pyrr did when he was mafia (spamming, agreeing with vets, eventually you'll start apologizing for mistakes). can't wait to see what Ace has in store and can't wait to see what you've got to say. gg scum.
I'm not apologizing for anything. Saying "no one was listening to Ace" is not the same as saying "Ace made no arguments" when that is clearly wrong. We aren't arguing with no goal in mind, you said something utterly ridiculous (Ace is silent) and then provided clear reasons why that is wrong.
I don't suspect you even 80% but I am indeed wary. I personally think you're either red or blue, but your reactions are so vehement and intense it seems slightly fishy. I understand you don't think clue analysis is important, but I do.
L isn't halfheartedly or randomly accusing people. He made very clear and concise clue analysis and both you and Ace responded by ignoring that and attacking him instead.
Just look at the inconsistencies here in two seperate arguments you made.
"Ace is innocent because the clues point to him.
Ace isn't necessarily innocent, the clues just don't point to him. Clue analysis on day 1 is trash."
Why venture his innocence based on clue analysis while the entire basis of your point is that clue analysis is worth nothing. Yes, the game got more active when you were defending him. That doesn't erase the large amount of arguments made, pointing fingers at L and slamming clue analysis in general.
Keep up the personal attacks though.
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On February 15 2010 11:33 Ace wrote: No Dr.H made a few very critical mistakes. In fact the first one was even thinking that me posting aggressively implies that I'm suspect. That's just wrong on so many levels because I tend to play aggressive majority of the time regardless of my role.
Then he tried to link myself and redtooth. In fact he's done this several times in an effort to say my death will imply information about him when we haven't even done anything that shows we are on the same side.
The most telling example I have is the trap I set. See I knew that regardless of what role L has, he'd attack me. In fact it's amusing that he does this all the time then people that complain about us arguing. Those people are actually my PRIME SUSPECTS because every time L and I argue a shitload of information seeps out. I'm sure L already has a list of these soon to be dead people lined up though.
The main part of my trap was seeing if anyone was going to shadow L. You know, loosely agree with some of his posts no matter how wrong they are and then try and implicate me. The mere fact that you propose lynching me on Day 1 based on CLUES is a telling point that you want to off me so bad. Even L stepped back for a second to re-asses but you kept on with the accusation.
However there was one other thing that tipped me over the edge. How is it possible that you are currently reading the thread, I'm not even posting and you want to lynch me and you skip Caller's post? That was probably the biggest piece of positive information in the last ~10 hours and you chose to ignore it.
You are definitely not pro-town. You're Mafia.
Wrong. I don't think it's because you're aggressive that you're mafia. In fact your analysis of my behavior is very very wrong.
I suspect you not only based on the strong clue connection, but because of your poor logic in your arguments against L. Being aggressive has nothing to do with it. You're flat out ignoring every point he makes and just pointing fingers back at him. If you at least provided an alternative explanation for the clue profile, I might have taken your arguments seriously, but it was a seriously lame attempt at dodging the issue on your part.
Shadow L? loooolol, I agreed with ver and to some extent you at first until I went back and read everything more carefully.
You think I'm mafia because I agreed with someone you disagreed with? I propose lynching you because of clues, your poor arguments/logic, and the sheer amount of information the town would receive.
"Even L stepped back for a second to re-asses but you kept on with the accusation. " doesn't mean anything. I've never said you are 100% mafia, only that I feel you're the strongest candidate. That doesn't mean I haven't considered other people or thought about this. It has nothing to do with how "strongly I want to off you" that just purely ridiculous.
I'm saying "I think Ace might be mafia because x y and z, we should lynch him because a and b" and you're using that as evidence that I want you gone so so so so so bad that I must be scum?
Nice "trap" but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense : /
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On February 15 2010 11:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 11:28 redtooth wrote:On February 15 2010 11:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Ace wasn't arguing? Are you kidding? ok now we're arguing with no goal in mind but let me just prove why you are wrong. those posts are so nostalgic: they sound like every other game where Ace and L start off by accusing each other. guess what? in this game nobody listened to ace and just shrugged off his arguments. it wasn't until i started defending him that shit really hit the fan. then everybody started talking, ace backed off and game started moving. and damage control? for what? because you think i'm mafia? or because L (who i was arguing against) and a large chunk of the town realize that i'm town aligned by now. lol you can 'start discussions' with clue analysis all you want. i'll do it by arguing against whoever is talking and randomly/halfheartedly accusing people (chezinu, BC, BM, L) to see their responses. also, if you still don't realize that Ace and i aren't aligned then omg you are slow. you are starting to seem more and more scummy, playing a lot like pyrr did when he was mafia (spamming, agreeing with vets, eventually you'll start apologizing for mistakes). can't wait to see what Ace has in store and can't wait to see what you've got to say. gg scum. don't forget how he tries to tie loose implications up as "solid" facts. Seriously this is so lol.
When did I say anything was a solid fact. I can list all of the arguments you've made again and that is indeed solid fact. Feel free to dispute it.
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That's cool
It isn't even lukewarm yet lol
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On February 15 2010 11:48 Bill Murray wrote: i'm going to expand a bit on my last post. i said he's PROBABLY blue or green because being a town aligned player i have no clue as to whether or not i'm actually right. what you said implied that you already know he's green or green aligned, which means you know about who some red are already. i suppose in a scenario like this my argument is a bit less relevant as you actually wouldn't know who 10 mafia were.
meeple didn't imply that in the slightest
he's just saying the trap sucks because greens could fall into it easily
and he's right
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On February 15 2010 11:49 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 11:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I don't suspect you even 80% but I am indeed wary. I personally think you're either red or blue, but your reactions are so vehement and intense it seems slightly fishy. I understand you don't think clue analysis is important, but I do.
L isn't halfheartedly or randomly accusing people. He made very clear and concise clue analysis and both you and Ace responded by ignoring that and attacking him instead.
Just look at the inconsistencies here in two seperate arguments you made.
"Ace is innocent because the clues point to him.
Ace isn't necessarily innocent, the clues just don't point to him. Clue analysis on day 1 is trash."
Why venture his innocence based on clue analysis while the entire basis of your point is that clue analysis is worth nothing. Yes, the game got more active when you were defending him. That doesn't erase the large amount of arguments made, pointing fingers at L and slamming clue analysis in general. L wasn't accusing random people for information. i was. ace always attacks L. i chose to attack L because i found fault with his high emphasis on clue analysis with day 1 clues (something atypical of L or any vet mafia player). listen here's what happened so that bystanders can understand - L accuses Ace based on clues - Ace makes a halfhearted defense then basically sits back - i defend Ace rigorously because i think day 1 clues are retarded and because i think vets are important in this game setup, never seriously claimed that ace is innocent - something happens that makes me lose a bit of trust in ace - i see why day 1 clues aren't so retarded so i retract my full-hearted defense of Ace - you somehow fabricate all these inconsistencies in my argument and think that i am flip flopping for no reason GET OVER IT I'M NOT MAFIA. i understand L accusing me but he knows i'm townie. lol what the hell are you doing trying to paint me as mafia with really really really weak arguments and nitpicking at details? maybe you are scum? and about the vehemence in posts, this is mafia. this is serious business.
I'm not hung up on the idea of you being mafia, but it does seem likely to me that you are associated with Ace who I do believe to be mafia. You claim now that you lost trust in him yet you won't give a reason why. If you can justify this shift in trust, I'll most likely gain a lot of trust in you. So far, I haven't seen any reason to do that.
I am perfectly okay with you changing your mind as long as you make that clear and give reasons as to why. You may not be flip-flopping but when I look at the arguments you've made since the beginning, that's really just how it comes off to me.
Ace didn't really make a halfhearted defense imo. Again, keep in mind this is my second game of mafia and I have never played with you, ace, or L before. The amount of arguments he made were substantial and the attacks were pretty intense that he made on L.
Show me what is fabricated. I fucking LOGGED everyones arguments in a wordpad, so if you can correct me on a specific misunderstanding of what your argument was then I would be glad to hear that. So far you haven't really done that.
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I don't see how "L and Ace always argue" is a defensive point.
So because they argue all the time we shouldn't pay any attention? Is there something I'm missing here?
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On February 15 2010 11:56 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 11:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I don't see how "L and Ace always argue" is a defensive point.
So because they argue all the time we shouldn't pay any attention? Is there something I'm missing here? it's like when someone sees two dogs fighting, and they spazz out, but the dogs are really playing with each other. that's what you did. i did it too, at first, but i realized they were playing eventually (i had to read that section again)
What makes you think that specifically? Again, justify your arguments.
It doesn't change their core arguments:
Ace: Talking about clues early is useless, they are useful later.
I'm being targeted by L and Zato because I'm a good pro-town player. (Implies L and Zat are mafia)
Be wary of light/ungrounded accusations.
Don't lynch strong players unless it is obvious they are mafia.
Blindly pointing fingers is bad no matter what.
Clues are subjective, not objective.
Never rely on clues.
I refuse to provide an alternative because I don't want to point fingers at anyone.
Clues are useful only when processed through DT's.
I can't be mafia because if I acted differently than in previous games everyone would notice and lynch me instantly.
I won't argue about clue analysis because it is subjective. I can debate whether they are valid because that is objective. Clue discussion leads to innocent death.
Don't think of this as 1v1v1, this game is about temporary allegiances as the mafia try to kill eachother.
L is trying to turn the town against me.
Very few people actually doubt me as pro-town.
L is trying to force my death and if I'm green/blue, he's definitely red.
L: Looking at clues is very helpful, even on Day 1 because the clues are very good this time around.
The clues very clearly point toward Ace and Empyrean as being mafia.
Ace is discouraging clue analysis because he knows it will kill him.
We can't afford to waste any lynches.
Clues will help the mafia kill eachother for the benefit of the town.
Ace needs to provide an alternative person to fit the day 1 clues.
Ace is mafia because he refuses to analyze the clues and provide an alternative even though he is "innocent"
The majority of anything people discuss lead to innocent deaths. Discussion still needs to happen and will tell us who is active and who isn't.
Don't treat this game like a large 1 mafia game. Clues will be very important here.
There isn't necessarily a clear clue division between the two families.
The clues pointing to Ace are specific and very clear, not at all a stretch.
It isn't likely that clues will grow stronger over time due to the sheer amount of mafia in this game.
Don't make useless posts.
People should listen to my clue analysis because I am very good at it.
Town can't waste time due to KP disparity.
Saying Ace is innocent because Incog wants him alive makes it too easy to twist clues.
Mafia might have several good/veteran players.
People look more innocent if herring clues apply to them.
If Ace is red, Malongo probably is too.
Don't be scared to kill a good player on day 1.
I'm not trying to force Ace to die, I'm trying to analyze the clues. Offer an alternative fit if you want to turn away suspicion.
I don't want Ace dead, I want the moonlight rider dead.
While their might be some playful banter there, the arguments aren't invalidated by that. And honestly, I don't see it.
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see how he's saying their arguments are relevant and shouldn't be ignored billmurray?
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Yes it was a humorous
but he is still arguing that the trap is stupid
so it isn't important whether he's poking fun or not because there is still an argument there.
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On February 15 2010 12:48 redtooth wrote:. laaan i was even looking forward to your post. how does everybody see that ace and i can't both be mafia?
I really would like to hear your reasoning behind the gradual shift from trusting Ace to distrusting him.
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Logged arguments up to page 29, not ready for an update yet.
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On February 15 2010 13:09 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 13:03 tree.hugger wrote: I have a feeling that way to many of these posts, especially the ones from our veterans are tainted by personal feelings. Which is a little disappointing, because only unbiased, in-depth analysis is what is going to win us the game.
And activity of course.
I don't think my last stint as mayor would make me a good choice for the post, but I would suggest that the mayor be someone without the massive ego.
He doesn't even WANT to be mayor. I nominate tree.hugger for mayor, because the best person with the power is someone who doesn't want to use it.
no
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On February 15 2010 13:23 Chezinu wrote: The doctor talks way too much... How do you even come up with so many things to say...
This is getting boring... waiting for the election...
Anyone have any questions for me? jobs? tasks? anything?
I spend literally all day on the internet.
Yesterday was an exception, and I imagine the day after tomorrow may be as well.
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he corrected it so it doesn't count posts before the game started (before the first day post)
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On February 15 2010 14:37 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 12:36 Iaaan wrote:My posts have been a bit lacking of content so far, I'll try to be a bit more insightful. For the town to win, we do not need to kill mafia; the Mafia‘s own KP will be the greatest weapon against the Mafia. What we, the town, needs to do is prepare for the later parts of the game, when our influence on the game really matters. In order to get ready for when our own KP matters, we need information. People have talked about putting together information, by profiling the clues, making circles of people who are connected to each other, and just watching what people post. The other way I can think of getting information is through lynches; if one person being red incriminates another person, it is more useful for the town to lynch them, again with the idea of controlling the balance between the mafia families in the later game. Other than having information, how can we increase our chance of winning? By killing the experienced Mafia. It makes sense to me that the veteran players are taking charge of their Mafia families. Therefore, while killing random Mafia members at this point may not ultimately benefit the town (you may disagree, but it would really just give an early advantage to one of the Mafia families), killing their leader will help the town. So who, with what I’ve said so far, who is the best person to lynch? Ace. Ace. is organizing one of the Mafia families, and Redtooth is his accomplice. The way I have linked them is through Redtooths post for candidacy. + Show Spoiler +On February 15 2010 06:53 redtooth wrote:enough of this. time to get the ball rolling. please prepare for content because... I AM ANNOUNCING MY CANDIDACY FOR MAYOR PLATFORMI am running for mayor. Some of you may know that I never run for any position regardless of my role, the reasons being similar to the ones Ver listed. However, I am willing to invest enough energy and effort to lead the town to victory. I have participated in enough mafia games and have developed an adequate understanding of the game. My play so far has demonstrated that I am capable of the high level thinking required for mayor of the town. Also, I am a Decision Science major at Carnegie Mellon. I play mafia for a living. THE OTHER CANDIDATESAll of the other veterans running thus far (Ace, BC, L) have too much suspicion surrounding them to be good mayor candidates. Some of the other candidates are either jokes (Chezinu, MasterDana, l10f), or unproven so far in the game (meeple, DrH, citizen). Electing Ver after how the early portion of the elections played out earlier is very very dangerous. I stated earlier that we should not vote for Ver but refrained from explicitly laying out the reasons why. Now that he has outright declared his candidacy, I guess it's time to share my thought process. Quoting an earlier PM I sent to someone: Show nested quote +2/14 16:21
logically it would make sense not to give Ver the "option" to step in and win the election. each mafia family will likely send out one mayor candidate and that makes elections hard enough. that's why we scrutinize the list of mayor candidates so thoroughly. if we give Ver the "option" of becoming mayor, he isn't scrutinized as much and when pressed on the idea that mafia families would push a member to candidacy he could say that he was "forced" into the position. or if a member of the same mafia family would be runner up in the votes then he could just step aside and use that fact later as defence.
now were he to have outright declared candidacy in the first place i wouldn't have minded voting for him. actually i probably would have voted for him. but that thought process would have been much different. he seems like such an attractive candidate now because he's smart and wasn't involved in any of the mess. Ver has, knowingly or unknowingly, taken advantage of the opportunity and halfheartedly declared his candidacy. This is the exact position we wanted to avoid. Before I was planning on running for Mayor, I requested that he withdraw his candidacy but I think just explaining the reasons in public should be enough to show that electing him as mayor is unwise. PRE-EMPTIVE DEFENSESome may be suspicious of me due to my somewhat passionate defense of Ace. As stated before, I have a high degree of respect for Ace and did not want to kill him off due to what I perceived as clue analysis on red herrings. I also don't believe any of the veterans should be killed to "gain interesting insight into how Incognito's clues are going to work" (quoted from [NyC]HoBbes). My late entry into mayoral race shouldn't be regarded with too much suspicion either. Nobody expected the mayor candidates to be caught up in so much shit. I wasn't voted for prior to my announcement so my argument against Ver's candidacy doesn't apply to me. LYNCH CANDIDATEIf elected mayor, I plan on lynching Bill Murray. There are obvious reasons (noted by Chezinu in a previous post) why we should be suspicious of him but there is much more to gain from lynching BM. So far he has presented himself as either a bad mafia or an idiot townie. Of course there is a chance that he flips green when mayor lynched and we waste a lynch but we get rid of a player that has a history of being detrimental to the town and isn't too valuable an asset to the town if he is indeed green. However, in the case that he flips red, we are provided with a wealth of information via the list that he posted. So far Bill has yet to post a legitimate defense, choosing instead to make a string of five or so posts that amounts to a desperate strike back at those that accused him. This makes him highly suspicious in my book. I am planning on checking over his behavior in the last game he played but FUTURE PLANSTo kill the mafia of course. We have to use our lynches to maximum efficiency and somehow get the DTs to broadcast their information without revealing their identity. Later on in the game, clue analysis should be more abundant than ever before because all players (mafia and town-aligned) benefit from the analysis. If Bill Murray flips red then the focus should immediately shift to the list he posted. The most notable oddity in the list was the absence of Ace despite the mountain of suspicion surrounding him. Please also remember that I was on the list. If anything, it would make sense that either both of us are on the list (a mafia defending a fellow mafia), neither of us are on the list (a townie defending a fellow townie), or Ace is on but I'm not (a mistaken townie risking his neck to defend a mafia). It doesn't make sense that I am on the list but Ace is not (a mafia defending a random townie). Please note that my attempt to lynch Bill Murray isn't out of anger towards him due to my name being on the list. So as of now I would place Ace in the same 'group' as Bill Murray. Though I fought hard to defend Ace thus far, he is far from exonerated and L's clue analysis is as solid as you can possibly get with only Day 1 clues. That means, depending on what color Bill flips, Ace becomes highly suspicious once more. Having said all that I feel that we should keep all the veterans alive as long as possible. They are capable of identifying mafia and (whether its through clue analysis or behavior analysis) call out individuals to lynch. Why is this beneficial for the town? Well as I stated earlier, town can't win if mafia takes out town first but at the same time a mafia family can't win unless they kill off the other mafia family. To identify and call out a mafia member in public would mean either the town or the opposing mafia family can kill that person off. Also, anyone who's been mafia before would know that killing off a veteran mafia member doesn't really get rid of their influence (due to reasons I don't want to state publicly). tl;drYou shouldn't vote for other mayor candidates due to various reasons. Vote for me. I am reasonable, logical, and have basic plans with more in the making. Most importantly, I am innocent. Thank you for your time. The things that make me consider him Mafia are his pre emptive defence, lynch candidate, and his future plans. First off, the preemtive defence. Quite simply, this is him justifying his support for Ace. First Redtooth supports Ace, claiming that the Day 1 clues are always useless. Later he wavers slightly in his support, contradicting himself and admitting that the clues may be useful, but now it looks like he has gone back to supporting Ace. This could be a little ambiguous, but I think that complete/blind trust is suspicious, and maybe Redtooth thinks that aswell. This is also significant, because Redtooths main defence against accusations against him, and people linking him to Ace is that Redtooth claims to mistrust Ace, while refusing to provide a reason. As for lynching Bill Murray in order to determine Ace’s roll, this is just silly. I think most of us can see that Bill Murray was being dumb, but not mafia. By saying that Ace is red if BM is red, when BM is obviously green, Redtooth is creating an arbitrary defence for Ace, as well as wasting a lynch on killing a townie that will not give us any useful information. Redtooth also states that we should keep veterans alive; I can’t say this makes him mafia, it sounds reasonable, but I’ve stated my reasons already why keeping veterans alive is not a good strategy. As for other supporting facts, Ace’s posts arguing with L have not actually refuted any of his points, only deflected them by agreeing with Redtooth that Day 1 clues are useless, when I think it is pretty clear that the clues COULD point to Ace. Other people supporting Ace include Decafchicken, who hasn’t said anything, but just voted for Ace (assuming one of the Mafia families candidates are Redtooth and Ace, Ace is the one with more votes, thus the logical one to vote for), and Abenson hasn’t really added anything, only supported Ace IIRC. These peoples connections aren’t solid, and I’m sure there are other people with similar connections, but I haven’t bothered to find them yet. I haven’t covered anything, but many things have already said if you have read through the thread, but I do want to quote this one post: On February 15 2010 12:03 L wrote: Ace and I, while often opponents, do not typically argue about this we consider irrelevant. If Ace says he thinks clues are worthless, he actually thinks clues are worthless. Many of our arguments come up after the game ends again because neither of us are convinced that our opposite made a good case.
In the current instance, I don't see what Ace's argument is other than "I SET A TRAP BECAUSE EVERYONE WHO AGREES WITH L MUST BE MAFIA". Seems pretty dumb; if you actually set that trap, you'd be going balls deep trying to kill Iaaan. I agree with many things L has said, the most relevant one being that Ace’s arguments/”trap” are bad, and I support him for saying he may lynch Ace if elected. I was considering voting for citizen, but L is more active, and again I agree with a lot of what he has to say. I can think of a few more reasons that L is the best candidate, but this post is getting pretty long, and my focus is on Ace If anything is unclear/missing, I am happy to talk about that in a later post; I know I haven’t included everything. My last thought, following the theme of getting information for later in the game from out lynch, if Ace is red, it could rule out the other people being accused for the blinding/brightness clues if he flips green, and if he flips red, it gives us a circle of potential Mafia. We win either way. I await your counter arguments; I hope you consider this accusation worthy of a response. listen kid. i'm going to point it out to you again. it's fairly obvious that i'm townie. like very very obvious. so obvious in fact that i'm surprised at the number of people PM'ing me and saying "OH I DONT THINK YOU ARE MAFIA" and either "I AM THIS ROLE" or "WHO DO YOU THINK MAFIA IS" lol. thanks guys. you guys make me blush. for those of you that still don't get it, I AM NOT MAFIA. let's look at the possibilities where i am mafia and why that possibility won't work. - both Ace and I are mafia - Ace is town-aligned and I am mafia Ace and I can't both be mafia. you guys let BM off the hook with the logic that "oh mafia wouldn't let him do something as stupid as that". now think about my actions. i literally went out of my way to defend ace because there were some insights into the clue structure that i felt L wasn't considering it. now if both ace and i were mafia, why would i so blatantly associate myself with ace and create a double target? if anything i can tell ace the same arguments and let him express it himself, letting the mafia family cut their losses with only 1 dead mafia. later on i started to suspect ace of being mafia and stopped defending him, another suspicious event in the eyes of the town but obviously understandable after i explain my reasons. these are all very very very risky plays if i were mafia. the alternative is Ace and i aren't aligned but i am mafia. then reason out why mafia would go out of his way to defend a random townie (or even worse a mafia of the other family). lol i could have done that to earn ace's trust but that's quite a difficult target to trick. that scenario doesn't make any sense at all either. i thought it was so obvious that you guys would understand without me explicitly laying it out but now do you understand why? please understand why... i'm getting sick of this.
This is a very good defense and I wish you had said this initially instead of just implying I was stupid.
I guess I must be reel dum 4 not cathcing on lawl
Anyway, I am still curious as to why you changed your mind about Ace. I feel a bit uncomfortable accepting your change of heart without some justification, as I've said before. I suspect Ace far more than I suspect you and that would really help put the idea of a possible connection between you and Ace to rest.
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Information:
If flip red we can analyze:
Vocal Supporters Who voted for you for mayor, particularly while giving little reason Vocal accusers (L, Myself, laaan) are very likely not in the same mafia family as you People trying to distract attention from accusations toward you without offering a real argument A relatively large amount of posts to analyze from the perspective of a mafia from a specific family
If you flip green, it's fair to analyze: Vocal accusers seem more suspicious Voters for the most vocal accusers People who suddenly bandwagon against you late in the thread/without reason
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Your post doesn't make any sense
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On February 15 2010 15:16 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 15:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Information:
If flip red we can analyze:
Vocal Supporters Who voted for you for mayor, particularly while giving little reason Vocal accusers (L, Myself, laaan) are very likely not in the same mafia family as you People trying to distract attention from accusations toward you without offering a real argument A relatively large amount of posts to analyze from the perspective of a mafia from a specific family
If you flip green, it's fair to analyze: Vocal accusers seem more suspicious Voters for the most vocal accusers People who suddenly bandwagon against you late in the thread/without reason If I flip red you can't analyze my vocal supporters. There aren't any. No one has supported me so far, only people who have said you guys may be wrong. That isn't support. It doesn't matter if you're not in the same family - you'd still be suspect. Who has tried to distract attention from this argument? List them please. For the very last time, you can't analyze my posts. In fact before you even try and get me killed it might be a wise idea and analyze them now to see what you can find. And by analyze I don't mean "hey guys, look what Ace said" but more akin to what links if any you can see to other people. I ask this sincerely because before you try and kill me on the basis I'm Mafia you should do this BEFORE offing me to make sure you have some clue of what you are doing. Needless to say I think you're so off tangent so this will hopefully show you why you're wrong. Now if you lynch me when I'm innocent you don't even get any more information based on my last paragraph. You have nothing to link me on. Nothing. you'd start the next day with the SAME information as the last. If you can prove me wrong, do it now by examining my posts and see what you can find that is going to be so mind blowing to the town it gets us a path to the Mafia.
You said yourself if you flip green, that myself/L/laaan are likely mafia. Saying there is no information to be gleaned from your death either way is silly.
I wouldn't call ver a vocal supporter of you, but like redtooth said. If you are mafia, your allies will likely not vehemently defend you but perhaps try to discourage the use of clue analysis. Ver made a post a while back saying that "anyone discouraging clue usage is probably innocent" and it seems to me (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you tried to discourage redtooth from making anti-ver posts with your PM to him.
redtooth just now has added a fair amount to the case for you being scum. You're saying my suspicion isn't based on any analysis, but I've stated many times it has to do with your dodging L's questions, being unwilling to provide alternative solutions, and the biggest basis of your argument being "fuck you I'm ace i dont need to defend myself cuz im ace"
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