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OK. I’ve sat down carefully going through all possibilities with respect to L, BC and Incognito. Having done that, I am now reasonably reassured we're in good shape and can trust BC, at the very least. If BC and the "other DT" live through another night, Incognito looks pretty legitimate as well.
BC, L, Incognito possibilities:
1. All are town. Great stuff.
2. All are red. Highly unlikely. The 2nd DT story must be true, otherwise it’s both unnecessary and very risky (remember, in this scenario we’re assuming BC is red, so that would make 2 “fake” DTs, which would look incredibly suspect to the real DT, who would call them out at some point). Given then that the 2nd DT story is likely true, and they checked sidersprang/L, then L must be GF if red at all. However, it seems unlikely he would choose GF over BC in this case, I just don't see it.
So while remotely possible, it seems extremely unlikely all 3 are red. Finally, if all 3 are red and were contacted by this 2nd DT, the DT would be dead by now. The “other DT’s” blind faith in Incognito is still bothersome, but it would help explain why he chose sidersprang too, using Incognito’s (bad-idea) DT check-list.
3. Two are red, 3rd one is not. 3a. In + BC are red, L is blue. I don’t see this as a possibility: L would know they were wrong about his role (unless they guessed right – highly unlikely). 3b. L + BC are red, In is not. Again, highly unlikely, BC can’t pass night 2 test from In unless he is implausibly lucky. 3c. L + In are red but BC is not. Could happen, but would require L to be GF to pass DT checks.
4. One is red, others are not. BC can’t be red if the other two are not – he’d have to get hugely lucky on both nights. If L is red and the others are not, he’d have to be GF. In could obviously be anything-aligned.
Conclusions:
BC is very likely blue as claimed, in all scenarios. The only shadow of doubt is in the “all red” scenario, which seems extremely unlikely as explained above.
L may be red under scenarios 4 anc 3c, and would have to be GF in both cases. Given the timing of his initial soft-roleclaim this seems unlikely, but perhaps exercise some caution for another night.
Incognito could obviously be anything-aligned, but given the “other DT” is most likely real and still alive, he’s looking pretty blue now as well. I am comfortable voting for whomever you want, unless something goes seriously wrong here.
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I understand why you are extremely frustrated. Last game, I felt bored and out-of-the-loop, because even though there was a LOT of activity in the thread, it seemed like the "town circle" kept a lot of information to themselves, and it ended up to the point that my activity dwindled down to me becoming reaally inactive and didn't put in much effort into my posts, because no one seemed to listen anyways. As a townie again this game, I'm striving to stay focused and active. I DO think there's a worth in us posting publicly in the thread, even if our officials are hiding behind the scenes. Why? Because even though it's really boring that the thread is crawling along at the pace of a snail, it is this that makes it difficult for mafia to slip through the cracks. Also, in this game, every post can be considered, and nothing readily dismissed.
I do agree with you though that BC should have been more forthcoming with information earlier in the game, ESPECIALLY as a protected DT. But it seems that he has pretty much chosen to play this game as a figurehead of sorts, with Incognito as the spokesperson. Good points. This behind the scenes play + L's incredibly abrasive/unapproachable attitude will kill most threads. Sure, Ace will usually argue with him for the fun of it, but that still leaves most players feeling frustrated. I played that "arguer" role in parts of this game at times, but that little bit of fun will now stop. L basically claimed/has cover to be obnoxious/provocative on purpose, since he didn't care if was killed, at least he could blow up suspects. Of course, making ridiculous arguments also makes the mafia less likely to kill you, they will be tempted to sit back and watch townies attack each other - a reasonable explanation as to why he didn't get hit yet.
The medics will protect Incognito/BC (L is less likely to get hit). The DTs will perform the role-checks. They will tell us who to vote for. There isn't much else to say unless something really weird happens last minute.
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On March 18 2010 09:25 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 09:14 Foolishness wrote:On March 18 2010 09:02 L wrote:On March 18 2010 08:26 Foolishness wrote:On March 18 2010 06:44 L wrote: There's no reason to protect incog at this point. There's no way to confirm him and his two bus shunts are used. He's the equivalent of a green, kinda. 100% of medic protection should be on BC unless we set up a driver. If I die, whatever, that speeds up our rape train a day.
Being frustrated isn't a reason to de-rail a town rape train. If you feel like you have nothing to do, go look at your number 1-3 suspects and go check how they act in prior games, then report your findings here.
Pretty sure Incog proved his two bus shunts in his post where he explained everything. At the very least he proved he used one. If he's mafia, why would he waste away using his drives all for the benefit of the town? If he's mafia, the only useful thing he can do now is vote (and possibly cause town chaos but that's very unlikely). BM, if nothing you say will convince the town that you're green than there's definitely nothing I can say that will convince them either At the very least, we have a coordinated town with two DT checks coming up (assuming they don't die) and a mad hatter with hopefully smart bombs placed (and who's hopefully not a GF). Even if BM turns up green there shouldn't be a problem wrapping things up in subsequent days. Although I'm sure going to have a field day defending myself if BM turns up red. Why would he waste 2 shunts? To gain information regarding the medics, dts, and such. Who am I having protected tonight? Who am I bussing? If he is in contact with mafia they'll know and they can act accordingly. Once our medics are killed and our drivers are out of drivin' juice, both our DTs will die shortly thereafter. Once that happens, our circle stops growing and the 'clock' essentially stops. If we've checked a GF, we're in even more of a pinch. Either way, you aren't stupid. You knew this. It was explicitly stated by someone else earlier. Why would you advocate protecting incog over a fucking CONFIRMED DT if incog is essentially a town leaning green who can't be confirmed at this point? That's not to hate on him; he's played well and if he's town aligned high five to him. Its just that we have more important treasures to safeguard from red hands. Yes, I can see your concern with this. But if he's mafia, the mafia loses more than the town does. Okay, say Incog is mafia and has access to all this information. He doesn't have any drives anymore. Mafia has to waste hits to kill the medics BEFORE they can get the DTs. That's two (or one I guess in worst case scenario such as they stack hits) more checks to confirm innocents or find the mafia before the DTs actually die. Plus, who's to say that Incog knows the medics? I would assume BC does at this point, but he doesn't have to share that. If BC has the medic coordinated Incog's knowledge is next to useless. The only thing Incog can provide is another vote for mafia. And hey, there have been two confirmed switches so far. If Incog is mafia bus driver, we got another bus driver to utilize, who probably has at least one more switch. Not to mention you have bombs. There's probably a vigilante/veteran around. And you seem to have misunderstood, I did not say I advocate protecting incog over BC. No way. It's going to be the third night. If mafia have to stack hits on the third night that's a good sign for the town. Not to mention there's already a clear idea on who the mafia are based on inactivity/useless posting. Yeah that probably includes me to an extent. But there are also quite a few people who we can safely rule out as being mafia because of their activity (at least in my opinion). Even if it comes down to the fact that we don't have DTs, it's not going to be game over right away. It's only the third day: we have double lynches, we have targets, all the blues are alive minus the bodyguards, and one mafia is already dead. You make the situation seem really grim if Incog is mafia bus driver. It isn't. Sorry, but that's bullshit. 1) Mafia wouldn't know who the second DT is. 2) Mafia wouldn't know who the medics are. 3) Mafia wouldn't know who my bombs are on. Etc. Taking a single turn to net TWO MEDIC KILLS is not a small thing. Nor is following that up with TWO DT KILLS. the alternative is that mafia guess who the DT and medics are and channel a hit per night using the driver. 2 DTs dead with unknown medics vs a full list of blues + medics dead + DTs dead shortly thereafter. You're essentially saying that a single extra day is worth losing all our blues. WRONG.If Incog is pardoner, he might have moved for the double lynch to use the pardoner ability and stop both. I'm not saying we need to kill Incog; he's probably legit. He just isn't getting medic protection over DTs. Sorry. I've been thinking about the pardoner as well - in late game it seems more powerful than the bus driver special. And obviously access to blue info would be a huge benefit to the mafia. Keep in mind too, the bus driver does not know who the mafia is early game, which forces them to decide whether to save the specials or use them to gain credibility.
These are very speculative things to keep in mind if things start going sideways. In terms of immediate plans however, they change nothing from what I said in my earlier post:
I am now reasonably reassured we're in good shape and can trust BC, at the very least. If BC and the "other DT" live through another night, Incognito looks pretty legitimate as well. Going through BC is the safest way to go. I think everyone can safely role-claim to him at this point, but he needs to be careful with the information he shares, even when it comes to Incognito/L, at least for a bit longer. Also, more guidance/activity in the thread would be great from BC, given the position he is in. He already has a lot more information than we do. Also, medics, please do your job this time.
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One more observation: I don't think Johnnyspazz and Iaaan can both be red.
From: Zona [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Re: LOL - check this out Date: 3/17/10 08:40 Read all of this - especially the middle paragraph.
From: Iaaan [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Re: mafia Date: 3/17/10 08:36 I am reasonably sure that BC is the DT, even if he isn't doing the best job taking advantage of it. L I am less sure about, however I think the most suspicious thing about his is simply his style. Incognito has said to me in PM's that his roles makes it so that it isnt beneficial for the town to know it until the time is right. This makes me think he is most likly a bus driver, and least likely a DT or medic, MAYBE a vigilante.
On another note, another thing that came from my PMing, I claimed to be a mafia bus driver to Johnnyspazz, and he in turn claimed to be mafia. Obviously there are trust issues, I know that he has been discrediting me in PM's to other people, telling them what I've been doing. This makes me more inclined to think that he is town, and trying to get me killed. The way to confirm eachother is that he has told me his kill list, and the reason I'm telling you this is because you are on it; if he is mafia you cannot be. They are also placing a hit on Bill murray, which I am to switch with L. I am not a bus driver, but I think that I may be able to get one to do the switch for me. If you and bill/L don't get hit, then we know the johnnyspazz is probably town.
Again, I think that both of us are BSing eachother. If he is mafia, you are safe to contact, as well as Bill Murray and L, and maybe I can find more mafia through him. If not, I'm covering my ass for later.
----------------------------------------- Original Message: Hey, let's talk. What do you think about the BC/L situation? Both town? Both mafia? BC town but L's mafia and tricked him? (Or BC mafia and L town? But I don't see how that explains anything.) BC's not being very responsive to the town and L doesn't post in a clear way...I can't figure out what their strategy is. Clearing the doubt around BC one way or another can really help the town move forwards...
And incognito, the third of the serious election candidates - how does he fit in? BC/L town and incognito mafia? all of them town (is it likely the mafia didn't run any serious candidates)?
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If that was aimed at me, I did claim to BC right after my post about trusting him.
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On March 18 2010 07:12 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 06:40 Ace wrote:On March 18 2010 03:19 johnnyspazz wrote: holy shit versatile, youre like mini-ace I told her posting like that someone would call it out! I said the same thing ^_^ @citizen: I argue with L because he's usually hilariously wrong. Check my track record ^_^ FALSITIES. ^_^. Being somewhat incoherent/deliberately misleading every game (at least early) seems to be the dominant strategy, especially when playing with the same people over and over. If you try to always be right you will a. be suspiciously quiet on day one, and b. get killed pretty fast:
On March 17 2010 10:08 Zona wrote: Fcusk. I die before day 3 again.
From my dying spirit I toss to you the torch, town...good luck! Old news for L, Ace, Chenzinu, etc. Maybe even Incognito/Ver/BC - sometimes they seem to "slip" early on a lot as well.
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On March 18 2010 12:19 johnnyspazz wrote:that means since im green, iaaan is red! incognito also thinks he's red No, it just means if one of you is red, the other likely is not. Says nothing about what happens if one of you is green.
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On March 18 2010 12:19 Ace wrote: even things like Ls sexuality are subjective in a game of Mafia. You people are gumps lol This is where that came from:
Versatile United States. March 16 2010 06:39. Posts 234 PM Profile Quote Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 06:37 L wrote: Show nested quote +
I wanted to see if you were around. Look at that. You are.
next time you want my attention, just lift your skirt up a bit. that always does the trick "I am so hip, even my errors are correct" citi.zen March 16 2010 06:42. Posts 1210 PM Profile Quote edit Damn lesbians. lalalalala Versatile United States. March 16 2010 06:45. Posts 234 PM Profile Quote wait, L's a girl? that makes my joke not as much fun : ( "I am so hip, even my errors are correct" citi.zen March 16 2010 06:53. Posts 1210 PM Profile Quote edit Yeah, you should be ashamed of yourself . Good clean fun :-)
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On March 19 2010 04:53 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 04:06 Bill Murray wrote:On March 19 2010 03:02 L wrote: You didn't try to do anything besides paint me red the entire game. Sorry bucko. Too little too late.
XeliN, I really fucking hope you're the vig, because if you claimed anything else people are probably going to need to die for it. Ive painted multiple people red, you're not the only one. I've put heat on about 6 people. Malongo, ~OpZ~, MadnessMan, you, l10f, Fulgrim... I'm suspicious of citi.zen, incognito, bloodyc0bbler, foolishness a lot. I'm suspicious of Versatile, Madnessman, XeliN, d3_crescentia, but less so than the ones I named before. I know that the latter could have a few reds, but I feel like the godfather will either be you or one of the 4 i'm suspicious of. It has to be someone who is good if Malongo wasn't the Godfather. It is probably someone who ran for office... d3_crescentia had a few voters, perhaps it is him. i have nothing to provide other than speculation, though, as I haven't really seen anyone give anything up that paints them red. All we can really do is go based upon activity, and to that extent I see no reason why I am the one who is up for lynch as I am the most active person within this thread. I am trying to analyze everyone, but it is hard to convince 17 people that you're a pretty good guesser. If you all let me decide who to lynch I'm pretty sure I could pick a red. You're an intentionally horrendous guesser in the first paragraph there. If you were ACTUALLY suspicious of XeliN you'd probably tell him to stop riding your balls, but you take all the help you can get and he seems to have claimed to you. Seeing as there are probably only 2 people that I don't know about at this point in the game, I can probably tell you what role he is too. But yeah, you putting a vote on him when he's claimed to you, given the role he probably claimed is fucking hilarious.
My first reaction to your statement about having access to all the roles was "wtf". Now I think that's fine, L is very safe, just as BC: nobody counter-claimed against him. If he were GF, there would still be the "real" mad-hatter out there, one very suspicious of the entire L/Incognito/BC triad. Furthermore, that "real" hatter would be quite vocal, since in death they could take L out by placing a bomb on him. Yet nobody really said anything (Bill doesn't count), so... we're probably in good shape.
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At this point the leaders have so much more information than the rest of us, that it's clearly their job to think about what does and doesn't make sense and tell us how to vote. The proof of the pudding will be in the lynchings. Hopefully they will turn out well.
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On March 19 2010 09:31 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 06:15 Foolishness wrote:On March 18 2010 13:28 Incognito wrote:From: Foolishness [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: bill murray Date: 3/18/10 11:24 Look, I really think BM is obviously green and that killing him is a waste. If you can straight up tell me that lynching him is the right move for the town and that you will get more information out of lynching him than anyone else than I'll vote for him. Informations. I am somewhat at a loss on what to say about this, as you have not yet voted. If you can straight up tell me that lynching (insert whoever you want to lynch here) is the right move for the town and that you will get more information of of lynching him than BM, then I'll vote for him. Anyway, a few stabs in the dark for you: By Lynching XeliN: If red, then BM could be red, but XeliN could have just been setting him up. If green, then we learn nothing. By Lynching d3: Nothing. Uneless you can point out a connection here. By Lynching l10f: Nothing. He's posted hardly anything. By lynching nemY: Same as the above. By lynching sidesprang: Same as above. Unless I'm missing something here? I honestly don't see what we get by lynching the above candidates except for maybe XeliN. Even then, its only if Xelin flips red. Bill has supporters. Foolishness/l10f/XeliN. If Bill flips red, you're under suspicion. If he flips green, I'd still be suspicious of Foolishness calling out a green so easily. When I think there are plenty more greens out there he should have found. XeliN and l10f I can probably let off the hook. So we get to the question, is Bill red. Maybe. At this point I'm leaning toward no. But hey, I'm not voting Bill am I? From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: voting Date: 3/18/10 11:34 I don't think BM would be acting like that if he was mafia. He sounds like an obvious townie to me also. I believe Tree.hugger is a good person to lynch, but I think it can wait till tomorrow's double lynch. I don't want to vote for someone who won't get lynched, that would be counterproductive, so I think I'll go with Foolishness or Xelin, both of which I think are more likely to be mafia than BM. Funny how you both pm me. When its L who is orchestrating this lynch. Go bug him instead. Anyway, why do you both pm me defending Bill when you could and should be posting in the thread? Interesting... Anyway, why don't you want to vote for someone who won't get lynched? Doesn't make sense to me at all. If we're all worried about that, we'd all vote the same way. Interesting though, cause I thought a mafia would rather vote for someone who's NOT going to die so they don't get scrutinized for voting a townie. Maybe you don't want to stick out on a list all by yourself? Don't want the mafia to target you for being right on? Hey buddy, I voted ages ago. Try doing research before making a post, you're making showtime! look good. Right now you're the one organizing the town, you're the most sensible person right now since BC hardly posts. Why wouldn't I pm you? It's my personal goal to make sure I never PM Ace or L in a mafia game, and so far so good, I have no intention to change that. If you want a better reason, L is hardset on killing BM, and has been suspicious of him for day one (and it's not just a vendetta like people say). I don't think there's much I can say that can convince him. You're last paragraph is very wordy and confusing (if it's aimed at l10f and not me then whatever). "Why don't I want to vote for someone who won't get lynched?" What does that even mean? I'm voting for Xelin because I believe he's mafia. This isn't about getting scrutinized later, it's about trying to find mafia. How come the three leaders of this town cannot agree on anything? You even said BM's probably not red yet you voted for him asap and only changed after I started defending him. From my perspective it's like this: you guys are killing an obvious townie. I don't want to kill someone who I believe is a townie, especially when there's a group of inactive players (which is nearly everyone I've said I'm suspicious about). But hey, you're one of the leaders of this town, if you think we should be killing all the active players and letting the 6 or so inactive players just sit around the rest of the game, that's you're call. You accounted for L being the GF in one of our PMs and said we can kill him tomorrow in the double lynch. Might as well anyways yes? He is one of the most active players. Yeah Incognito, you're right. Killing active players is how the town can win this game. Inactives can't be mafia, and are probably all innocent. Mafia must be here arguing against you and spamming the thread. It's so obvious now. Actually right now I'm not organizing the town. I guess BC/L decided to toss me out of the bus once I ran out of driving juice. Either way, yes the last paragraph was to l10f. BM looks active. But he says pretty much nothing. So I consider him on the inactive list. Of course there is a group of inactive players. What do you think RCs and bombs are for? Either way, quit yelling at me. I'm not the one voting Bill. If you feel like it, you can continue with the sarcasm, but it doesn't help your case. Nice job responding to my statements and giving us a wonderful candidate that will give us more information. Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 07:41 Foolishness wrote:On March 19 2010 06:53 XeliN wrote: Guess it looks like I'm going to be voting Bill, still not considering him as a viable Mafia candidate
Hey haven't you been reading the thread? Incog says we must lynch obvious greens, as it will give us the most information. Here I will summarize what Incog thinks: 1) We kill BM and he turns up red: In that case since I am defending him so hard I must be red also, therefore we kill me next day. 2) We kill BM and he turns up green: In that case, I was defending him because I knew he was green because I am mafia and he's not on my team. So either way, I'm going to die next day. But no matter! We must kill BM anyways! Can't you see how brilliant Incog is? No wonder he's a veteran player! Nope I didn't say to lynch obvious greens. Points 1 and 2 are moot. You're suspicious anyway regardless of Bills alignment. Nope I didn't say lynch BM anyways. Look who I'm voting. I am happy to hear this. Nothing personal of course, but as I've said repeatedly it cannot hurt to be a bit cautious for one or two more nights. Also, looking forward to the promised lynching strategy from L.
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On March 19 2010 09:46 Bill Murray wrote: the "promising lynching strategy" of L, proving that this game would rather give into soreness from a previous game and elitism, and doesn't care about innocence. Yeah, I'm giving into soreness by agreeing with him. After we've also played in the red mafia game together without any run-ins.
Wait, why am I replying to spammers?
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On March 19 2010 19:12 madnessman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 11:01 L wrote:On March 19 2010 10:12 ~OpZ~ wrote: Oh, and I believe we should be expecting a post from L soon, right?
What's the plan, oh great lyncher of Bill Murray. Well, here was the plan; We looked at the abenson votelist and decided that since we had so many people on it that we were suspicious of, that we were going to liquidate the entire list. BM just finished trying to rig votes two days in a row, so he was pretty much a forced kill on our part. Just for anyone watching the game; I've said this before, but one of your jobs as a green player is not to MAKE yourself a blatant target unless you're trying to set up a gambit. If BM was a hatter and wanted to get lynched while claiming mafia bus in pms, for instance, that woulda been a decently baller move. His play, however, was far from that. Tomorrow we're going to double hit another 2, and we're going to have another 2 DT RCs on list targets. We want to vig another. Granted the people that we have claimed from that list, we should be able to basically purge it within a day. For this night, I need to move one of my bombs, we need the DTs to check the right people, and if we have a vig, I need him to give me a heads up. Granted we don't have captain spamalot in the game anymore, people posting solid analysis won't get pushed off the page asap. On March 16 2010 10:03 flamewheel91 wrote: Day 2 Lynch Vote:
madnessman Votes: 0
Iaaan
~OpZ~
Bill Murray
Abenson
Bill Murray Votes: 2 L johnnyspazz
Abenson Votes: 9
BloodyC0bbler (x3) Fishball d3_crescentia Foolishness madnessman
johnnyspazz XeliN citi.zen tree.hugger Zona Bill Murray
Malongo Votes: 8 Incognito BloodyC0bbler (x3)
Bill Murray ~OpZ~ Abenson CynanMachae sidesprang
johnnyspazz
BloodyC0bbler Votes: 1 Versatile
L Votes: 1
Bill Murray nemY
~OpZ~ Votes: 1 l10f
nemY Votes: 0
Bill Murray
sidesprang Votes: 1 Iaaan
Non-voters (i.e. those to be modkilled) Malongo
Voting for the Day 2 lynch is over. Abenson will be lynched. Malongo will be modkilled. Night post coming up shortly. There are a grand total of 9 people who haven't claimed yet. Our top suspects are probably d3_crescentia(DT check tonight), Foolishness, XeliN(DT check tonight) and tree.hugger. XeliN has SUPER inconsistent play. He defends BM, then votes to kill him, for instance. This was noted earlier. XeliN's been on our collective radars since like.. day 2. Foolishness hasn't added a single thing to the town yet, despite piping in here and there; His attempts to defend BM are prematurely ended when he decides that after declaring his point of view that he'd rather just stop getting in the middle of the issue. d3 just doesn't bother posting. at all. Its pretty retarded. tree.hugger same deal. Now, I still don't know who the vig is, but I'm going to outline the people who have claimed to our circle in one way or another. I'm a hatter 2 DTs 1 Medic 1 Vet 2 Bus Drivers I think there's a second medic, but I'm not sure. If that's the case, one of the bus drivers is going to be mafia. If there's no second medic, our drivers might be legit. We're also missing a Vig. The bus driver with shunts left, PM me. The Medic PM me. We need to BREAK OUT SOME DEF tonight. DTs pm me about which of the 2 check targets listed above to make sure you don't fuck yourself. Out of the remaining 9 people, 3-4 are probably mafia. There's likely 1 GF in our system. Now, looking at the numbers: 4 mafia, 13 of us. We're going to lose 2 tonight. Hopefully less. Probably a vig hit too. If we fuck everything up, we go down to 4:10. Double lynch hits wrong again? We go to 4:8. We miss med prots? 4:6. Even at this point, we can still win if we all work together. I can be lynched as a desperation measure to kill 2 mafia, which puts their kp at one. We'd be at 2:5, then 2:4 after. So yeah, we need to be accurate. I need, once again, people looking at specific people. If everyone can put the time in, I'm going to suggest the following:
Go to the first page and look at the player list. Take the next surviving person after you and look through their posting habits, voting patterns and previous game behavior as mafia or town. Post comparisons. We need this information. What about this plan: we lynch you tomorrow. Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 14:44 L wrote: Citi.zen, if you feel so strongly about killing me, how's about we kill bill murray today and if I'm wrong, you kill me tomorrow.
Sounds like everyone wins. You've pulled this shit in 2/2 of the mafia games I've played, and chances are, this game JUST LIKE LAST GAME you're not going to hold up your end of the bargain. I think you should be lynched just based on principle. You can't say shit like that if you yourself are unsure--if there is even a possibility that you could be wrong. I followed you and voted for BM for the lynch BECAUSE you volunteered to be lynched if you were wrong; thus I figured, BM must be mafia because there's no way this guy would say something like that unless he was very very sure that he is correct. To the rest of the town: I don't think we should be so ready to trust L, just because he has the role of a mad hatter. Sure, he's been saying throughout the game that his role is easily provable. But that's only the case ONCE HE'S DEAD. It's kind of a circular argument: "Vote me for mayor, because I'm blue! But don't worry, my role is provable! But it's only provable once I'm dead, but don't kill me...I'm not mafia! Keep me alive, because I'm blue, and my role is easily provable..." Etc etc. Tbh, I don't think the mad hatter role is very difficult for mafia to claim. As long as the mad hatter stays alive, his role is unable to be proven. And by claiming blue and saying his role is easily provable, people are less likely to lynch him. Therefore, it's possible for mafia to claim mad hatter--they just have to be willing to take the gamble that the GF won't get killed off early in game. And this is L that we're talking about--if anyone would take this gamble, it'd be him; he's ballsy enough to pull off a stunt like this. The problem with your argument is this: nobody else came forward claiming mad hatter.
Should that change we would need to re-evaluate, but in the meantime L is it.
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Hmmm... very strange killings. At any rate, we still have 2 dts supposedly, and not that many people to check. Sure lynchings from now on pls.
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On March 21 2010 09:45 Ace wrote: I'll host the next game, and I think Zona is hosting one too. My game won't be standard though as I just don't trust most people here to play well in that kind of setup (see this game for reference).
@L: the fact that no matter what the game setup is and you repeatedly do push for innocent lynches is exactly why people call you blind. Your whole style revolves around killing everyone for information and then the town loses because of it. It's just a bad idea all around. You also don't read people's posts and just like to twist words. Look at Fishball's posts at the end of this game and Versatile during the game. They have legit points and imo they are correct. You just want to appear smarter than they do when in fact, you are so off the wall no one can tell if you just troll them or read a totally different post than we did ^_^.
As I said before, I now think L's "playing style" is perfectly OK. It does come more naturally to some people than others, but in the end the "good" players in repeated games often make bad arguments or behave inconsistently. All that means is that "catching" him next time he is red will not be easy: playing like crap and lynching greens would be "consistent".
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On March 21 2010 10:56 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 10:37 citi.zen wrote: As I said before, I now think L's "playing style" is perfectly OK. It does come more naturally to some people than others, but in the end the "good" players in repeated games often make bad arguments or behave inconsistently. All that means is that "catching" him next time he is red will not be easy: playing like crap and lynching greens would be "consistent". I disagree. I stated this before, but I think that if a player who is town in a game makes bad arguments or is not being helpful in general to aid his or her chances as a mafia member in future games is not a show of skill, but instead shows a lack of skill, because this player is not confident in his or her ability to be helpful and appear town-like in a game as mafia. The player is essentially hurting the town (and his/her) chances to win when playing as a member of the town only to help his/her chances to win when playing as a member of the mafia. Perhaps we agree after all :-)
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On March 21 2010 13:32 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 13:15 L wrote:On March 21 2010 13:05 Ace wrote:On March 21 2010 10:56 Zona wrote:On March 21 2010 10:37 citi.zen wrote: As I said before, I now think L's "playing style" is perfectly OK. It does come more naturally to some people than others, but in the end the "good" players in repeated games often make bad arguments or behave inconsistently. All that means is that "catching" him next time he is red will not be easy: playing like crap and lynching greens would be "consistent". I disagree. I stated this before, but I think that if a player who is town in a game makes bad arguments or is not being helpful in general to aid his or her chances as a mafia member in future games is not a show of skill, but instead shows a lack of skill, because this player is not confident in his or her ability to be helpful and appear town-like in a game as mafia. The player is essentially hurting the town (and his/her) chances to win when playing as a member of the town only to help his/her chances to win when playing as a member of the mafia. this. It's also why I say it's a good idea to lynch players like BM and Vivi early on because if left alive, they WILL make the town lose. And if they're mafia they play the exact same way as if they're town: Inconsistently and illogically. Its like some kind of braindead super-armor. Brain dead super armor...Lol... L and Ace agreed too. Hahaha Rolf.
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