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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Players with special roles should use them early and often. The French must cook, and should otherwise stay out of the discussion. | ||
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##vote L | ||
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That man should never be let near a blinking red button, take him out. Also the 'or worse' clearly means a kind of 'Dr. Strangelove' doomsday device. Purity of Essence, remember, PoE, PoE, Purity of Essence.... | ||
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On March 24 2010 11:38 d3_crescentia wrote: Wait what? Who are you talking about that's confirmed town? Just to be clear. Bill Murray, of course. I have a feeling lynches might be quite hard to come by this game. Nukes may end up going out sooner then we think if we can't even lynch a banned person. | ||
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On March 26 2010 05:46 L wrote: Oh yeah, ##Vote tree.hugger Kid clearly wanted to wagon me. I'd much prefer that we nuke the shit out of RoL and use anti-nukes on any retaliatory strikes. If he's town he shouldn't throw extra nukes out. If he's mafia, good. 2 seems like a good number of missiles. The list of people who wanted to off me during a 36 hour ban is either full of retards, mafia, or people who are still consumed with the ghost of the rage donut. I suggest the best course of action for the town is to simply lynch everyone on that list. Damn straight. Your posting in the last Mafia game almost singlehandedly led the town off track time and time again. You're unhelpful, aggressive, self-interested, and spam the thread constantly. Also, you were banned, which, ironically, probably helped us get a clearer picture of how to play the game. But by saying I wanted to 'wagon' you is a little unfair, my vote for you was, and is an honest choice. Obviously, I'd prefer other people go along with me, but by using that word, you're suggesting that there was somehow some nefarious plot behind my vote. Obviously, given your current state of being still in the game, that was not so. As a mafia in the last game, I learned well the benefits of keeping you alive. I eagerly anticipate the return of your analysis. And I will not hesitate to nuke you if you again embark on a strategy of disinformation and confusion. | ||
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Also, seriously, L comes back and the everybody immediately goes down on bended knee and swears fealty to our returned savior? Good grief. This unwavering loyalty to the second coming of L is nauseating. The bro got banned for being annoying and unhelpful, as per the usual, and if anyone needs evidence otherwise, checking the last few mafia games he's played should prove this quality beyond a shadow of a doubt. And yet, L comes back, full of the typical self-righteous revenge, and immediately his word becomes gospel. If anything, those who jumped so readily on L's bandwagon of confusion are to be most distrusted. | ||
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On March 26 2010 08:59 ~OpZ~ wrote: On March 26 2010 07:41 L wrote: I think they town shouldn't save Caller because saving him would save someone? Well no shit, sherlock. A better argument might be "because I honestly think he's mafia", but you seem to have avoided that for some reason. Anyways, RoL just said he has no more nukes. If he lies, he's mafia. That pretty much green lights my plan. I'd rather not try to change the vote target and have people fail because we don't have enough people, so I'm going to go ahead and ask people: If you're cool to engage with the nuke RoL and lynch tree.hugger plan, say so in the thread. Lurking people work against us here. Please people...We need input on this tree.hugger plan... And I noticed Tree.Hugger "disappeared" again. Along with Iaaan, after your crazy ass pulled that shit. Also, did it say the server was too busy a few minutes ago? Nice timing. | ||
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On March 26 2010 09:15 ~OpZ~ wrote: Who anti-nuked for Caller? That person should step forward, and RoL should definitely eat Caller's brains....Mafia saving caller? Not in my mafia world?!?! And immediately get killed by the mafia? Yeah right. Japan is a country that should certainly have more tricks up their sleeve, having this person out themselves will not happen if they're mafia, and should not happen if they're town aligned and want to stay living. | ||
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On March 26 2010 09:48 L wrote: Why would he get killed by mafia? Anti-nukes are on the same numbered reserve that nukes are on; Given that RoL admitted to having a single nuke, its very probably that anti-nuking countries have a single anti-nuke as well. There's a pretty obvious reason why we'd want the anti-nuker to come forward, but lets see how people react to this first. What is the obvious reason? So we can lynch them? So we can not lynch them? What is gained by knowing who did this? Your assumption about Japan only having one anti-nuke cannot be proven, and in fact, the fact that the anti-nuke was used so early perhaps suggests that this player has other options at their disposal. | ||
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On March 26 2010 10:02 L wrote: Because if mafia have anti-nukes, we'd kinda want to know the identity of the anti-nuker if RoL kills caller and he flips red. Then the guy needs to justify his actions. Derp. So you're arguing that if the anti-nuker is mafia, then it would be in the best interests of the town for them to claim firing the anti-nuke? Well yeah, okay, sure, good luck with that. | ||
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On March 26 2010 10:04 L wrote: Also, who said I'm talking about Japan? I haven't said Japan once, nor is there any information in the thread indicating otherwise. Tree.hugger, either you're a mason, mafia, or you're the guy that shot down the nuke, ostensibly to stop us from being able to talk about killing you. Seeing as the masons probably would have made a comment, that leaves you in an odd situation. You're talking about Japan because Japan fired the anti-nuke. What are you talking about? Just saying something like "you're either a mason, mafia, or Japan" doesn't make it true. In fact, the sole reason you went after me is because I went after you. Fair enough. But pretending like you have some evidence to support that, when clearly none exists is simply rhetoric. You're entire argument for the anti-nuker (Japan, in case you're not following along) could only benefit a mafia perspective. Who are you, L? | ||
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On March 26 2010 10:13 ~OpZ~ wrote: True... So we should assume you've launched the anti-nuke. Where is my request for suspects that don't include L? I didn't launch the anti-nuke. I would not have launched the anti-nuke. And the list of suspects I owe you somehow, does not take precedent over Butler beating Syracuse. On March 26 2010 10:16 L wrote: Err, no. I didn't talk about Japan at all until you brought up the nation. Nor did I say that he had to be anti-mafia. I said the person should come forward because he COULD be mafia. Why would you think Japan has a certain set of abilities unless you know someone who has japan? If you're a normal townie, there are no PMs: You couldn't know unless you were Japan yourself. If you were a mason, one of your mason buddies could be japan and you'd know. If you were mafia, one of your mafia buddies could know. The only way you could know about Japan's abilities is one of the aforementioned options: 1) you're japan 2) you're mafia 3) you're mason Masons haven't talked about you, so 3) is out of the picture. You just denied 1). That leaves 2). Well played. Kill this kid tomorrow. Stupid logic through and through. Think I'd really be that obvious, as to make Japan's argument in third person? Seriously. I have common sense. You're the one making assumptions about what Japan has. You're saying you're convinced somehow that Japan has only one anti-nuke. Possible, but by no means certain. Nonetheless, you would lead a witch hunt to find who fired the anti-nuke. I pointed out that there may be very good reasons for the person who fired the anti-nuke to remain under cover, whether they be town aligned or mafia aligned. Therefore, your call for the anti-nuke person to reveal themselves is redundant, ill-conceived, and spam. It's really time that you consider what you're writing before you write it, this 'accuse blindly, and then never back down' strategy is counter-productive to the town. Seriously.... kid. | ||
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On March 26 2010 10:03 ~OpZ~ wrote: Who cares? Nukes/Anti-nukes are not all that important. What is important are actual roles/lynches/night kills. Seriously. You're probably going to die tomorrow. Let's face that. Nikon maybe too, but I'm still supporting Nemy or Jspazz, or someone that provides nothing. Abenson built a decent case against Jspazz, but it was brushed off by a "I couldn't make up my mind" when it was more "I was riding every bandwagon to pop up" -_- Produce something useful. Post a list of suspects that doesn't include the almost bussed L. I've stated my suspicions. Nemy will be insanely hard to confirm for town or against town. (I don't know if I was clear on why I'm suspicious of him, but he's always suspicious) Thanks for predicting the future. With you and L voting for killing me tonight, I probably won't have too much of a chance. You and L were the immediate proponents of Japan revealing himself, a strategy that anyone could see would be very dangerous, if not fatal to that player. You and L have moved in lockstep in accusing me of being mafia, simply for pointing out what should be common sense. So that's the list you wanted. You and L. And if I do die tonight, let this be a record of your intentions. | ||
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On March 26 2010 10:53 L wrote: Given your past history, yes. Open ended, intentionally vague arguments are really really persuasive. On March 26 2010 10:53 L wrote: Do you know what redundant and spam mean? Because while you might disagree with the idea and call it ill-conceived, it is in no way either of the other two. Attacking my vocabulary is another great way to gain points. Count it! On March 26 2010 10:53 L wrote: Which leads me to believe that you're trying to play yourself up as a big shot or something without knowing what the words you're typing actually mean. Which is pretty hilarious in and of itself. I would never play myself up to be a big shot. That's your domain. I suggested we lynch you on Day 1, as per the normal strategy of lynching inactive players. Beyond this, I was aware of your singular ability to disrupt the functional working of the town. I have already made clear that these were my reasons for voting to lynch you. When you returned, you defended yourself, by lashing out at me - perfectly reasonable. In the meantime, of course, you have succeeded in your perpetual quest to derail the town's efforts and confound everyone involved. Here's specifically what I object to. Your grandstanding, and pretending that you have any motive for lynching me beyond a defense against my accusations against you. You don't. Admit it. I'll be voting for you, bar anything unexpected, (like my living to tomorrow, for example) because your disruption of common sense in this game has been pernicious, in actively asking a potentially valuable potential town member to compromise their safety. On March 26 2010 10:53 L wrote: If you read prior, you'd know that I didn't see that Japan was mentioned in Ace's post, so I already DID retract the statements above. Your defense, however, ignoring that point and trying to attack me on other grounds for no reason is highly suspect. When did you retract your argument? You were still advocating it a page ago. But at the very least, it's nice you admitted to being wrong about something. | ||
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On March 26 2010 11:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: ##Nuke: JohnnySpazz My power is limited, and I didn't realize my power was supposed to post in the thread. I'm so confused. And we were all ready to figure out if Caller was mafia or not, now we're going to need to figure out what this means. Oy vey. | ||
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On March 26 2010 11:19 L wrote: 1) Wasn't vague. I looked through your past games. You make substantial errors in reasoning repeatedly. As for behaviorally: You played in mafia 16 and 18. You were town in both of these games. You did very, very little posting in both of them. In 16 you seem to have made an effort at posting. Your few posts were fairly large, but included a lot of town building consensus language and you generally looked at issues instead of starting fights. Your posts aren't 100% accurate reasoning, but at least you make an effort. A substantial effort. Even when you disagree with people, maybe one or two posts has potentially inflammatory content. In 18 you hold off. You make nearly zero content posts and are generally happy to lounge around and do nothing. You're probably one of the top 3 lurkers in that game. This game you've been incredibly offensive from the start. I'm not the only one that realizes that trying to off me for 'inactivity' when its a 2 day ban is kinda silly. The idea behind inactivity hits is to get people posting and to try to pre-emptively take out a lurker. Its pretty obvious that I'm not going to say nothing all game long, so why would you hold onto the inactivity logic? Fishball is a ball of rage, so I understand why he's butthurt about me raping his logic last game. Versatile is permanently on a PMS bender and loves to pile the hate on me, so I can understand why she'd be eager to try and thumb her nose at me. For everyone else? They have explaining to do and that vote list comprises a significant mafia pool in my eyes because I'm not mafia. If i was mafia and saw that I could potentially bus one of the best town players out of the game, would I? LOL FUCK YES I WOULD. THATS WHY I BUS ACE PRETTY MUCH EVERY GAME. Hence why I think mafia are probably somewhat concentrated in that list. Granted that you're on that list, yeah, I'd kill you, because I'd probably want to kill the majority of people on that list. I see where you're coming from. Two disputes. First of all, you're criticism of my faulty logic is certainly correct, but also highly hypocritical. Mafia is a crapshoot in many ways, and you've had your fair of terrible calls in just the last few games as well. Here's where you've bothered me in the past L, as well as this game. I recognize that in many games, including XX, you've been town aligned, and I've recognized your earnest attempts to aid the town. But in actuality, you posses a certainty in your writing which is highly convincing to some people, (including myself, on occasion) but also does not take into account the chance that you're wrong. You make gambits where you pretend to sacrifice yourself in order to get someone to be killed. We all know those are ploys, but they keep working, and you keep employing these disingenuous strategies. Look, maybe we're on the same side here, and maybe we're not, but when you're so damn sure about everything, and when you actively move to stifle all other town points of attack, you're not helping the town effort. You say I've been nothing but offensive this game, but to who? To you, of course, and it's as if you're the only player who matters. L, please try to be more accommodating, less ready to flame, and less self righteous about your abilities and your logic. Some humility would help the town, by causing less confusion and distress. So here's my offer to you. Actively contribute to the town dialogue, instead of tearing townies down. Debate fairly and honestly. I'll be your ally if you choose to be reasonable. If not, I will vote for you tomorrow, and I will make sure that you cannot further muddle the water's with your posting. Cheers. | ||
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On March 26 2010 11:46 L wrote: You uh, don't read my writing if you think I often push with the assumption that I must be correct. I push with the assumption that even if I'm wrong that the right move has been made. In XX for instance, I didn't give a shit who died besides Me, Cobbler, nemY or MM because I knew if we survived the night that we would win. Killing BM was part of an overarching plan to rape the abenson list which wasn't wrong: 3 of 4 mafia were on there and I had a bomb sitting on their godfather. Not only that, but at the start of the game I called that 2-3 of me/malongo/incog/bc/foolishness would be mafia. I was right. So yeah, mafia is a guessing game; No one's going to guess 100% correct, especially with a buncha jerks in the background trying to make you guess wrong. The important part, however, is getting it right enough of the time. I'm not tearing townies down. I'm saying that people who voted for me have no real excuses. Maybe Opz does because he knew abenson was legit, maybe fishball and versatile are playing like emotional douchebags (which is expected of them), but for you? For the rest of the people on that list? Your defence is "i wanted to punish inactivity" but that simply doesn't hold. You also have no reason to rage against me unlike those mentioned above. So why the claws and fangs; I certainly didn't take them out against you. I just suggested you as a candidate based on the evidence in front of us. I have an unrebutted and substantial piece of evidence that makes you pro-mafia in my mind. Why would I back down from that until you can rebut it? Why would backing down be pro-town? No one else has suggested another candidate of equal magnitude besides Caller and I'm pretty sure I was all for having his face turn into a nuclear foam. So to sum up; You're around 4 inches short of average. Feel free to grow a bit before claiming you hit puberty... kid. Suit yourself. ##Nuke L | ||
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- If L is not mafia, he might be saved. - If L is mafia, he will definitely be saved. - There is no way this nuke will be as successful as I wish it could be. But at least it might make L a little more friendly and constructive. Or out of the game. Either would be nice. - Opz is definitely another great candidate for being mafia. If L flips green, then he's probably not. If L flips red (and again, I think the odds are that we will not see this happen) then he's more probably mafia. - If you're town aligned, and pondering saving L, don't do it, and let's see what happens. - If you nuke me, I will nuke you back. Let the justness of my action be decided in a vote tomorrow, or in a mafia hit tonight. *** Back to basketball. I'll be back a little later. | ||
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*** Let me qualify an earlier statement. If you are town-aligned and have anti-nukes and are thinking about using them to save L, please refrain from doing so, or deciding so until the very last minute. As I noted before, should L be mafia, he will be saved no matter what, so let the mafia waste one of their anti-nukes first. Play this like a game of chicken, and if you're more convinced of L's innocence then I am, then go ahead and take the action you deem necessary. On March 26 2010 12:38 Zona wrote: Why did you launch the nuke if you figured it likely wouldn't be successful? You've just put a lot of heat on yourself for the slim chance of getting rid of L. I highly doubt L will change how he plays because of it. He's consistently like this over multiple games, he'll either die or continue to be himself. I launched the nuke for two reasons: - The first was that L had it coming. If he's town, and the nuke kills him, then at least we'll be spared his incessant whining and opining until the next mafia game. (and he invariably will try to kill me off immediately, but that's a fight for another day...). I know he probably won't change, but I was getting tired of him anyway. - The second reason was that I'm curious to see if L is mafia or not. About the only way I can force a rolecheck is by nuking the dude. If he's saved, hopefully enough people will see the light, and we'll also get the name of one of the mafia-aligned countries. On March 26 2010 12:31 L wrote: You told people not to anti-nuke me. If I die, you'll see my role and you should die as responsibility right there. That said, the only person I think should be nuked is tree.hugger. Nuking players get nuked. This is the exact type of stupidity that I wanted to avoid by going through with the threat to nuke RoL. I know we don't have a great history of making deals, but I'll offer another one. In honor of L's oft-used tactic of pretending to sacrifice himself to win a vote, I will vote to lynch myself tomorrow if L flips green, and if there are more than ten votes to kill me. (I won't vote for myself if there aren't the votes, because that would be counter-productive to the town's interests to throw away a vote.) However, let me repeat myself, if L is innocent, I will hop on my own bandwagon. And unlike L, every time he pulls this move, I mean it. *** I'm more than happy to answer more questions. | ||
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On March 26 2010 13:04 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: You know, i'm curious about several players being mafia or not, but that doesn't mean i'm about to nuke them to sate my curiosity. I'm starting to think this is just some personal vendetta Note reason #1. Also—I mean—I offered to be nice to L and treat him like an adult, and he chose different path. So yes, about half of it was because he was getting on my nerves. Amendment to the post above. Third reason: As I've said multiple times throughout the thread, when L is posting, important town discussions literally get shut down, and L moved the discussion to whatever inane thing he thinks is important. L really doesn't help the town much at all. Also, about my pledge to vote for myself, if L flips green, I'll vote for myself as soon as possible. If the votes don't exist, then I'll move my vote, but I think it's more sincere if I kick off my own bandwagon. | ||
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On March 26 2010 13:12 L wrote: Starting? The kid nuked me because I was honest about not having any nukes and he realized I completely eviscerated his arguments. Given my propensity for driving busses, he figured he'd have died tomorrow regardless and took his shot now. A complete joke of a player. Someone with a nuke should hit him right now, and someone with an anti-nuke should save me. Your ego knows no bounds does it? Ever considered a job writing cheap crime thrillers? | ||
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On March 26 2010 13:21 L wrote: What ego? Nuking nukers was the plan that was agreed upon and that we were going to move on before someone saved caller and had RoL's nuke delay stopped. What's the point of this post other than to piss me off? You argue against vague replies earlier, yet this isn't the only one you make against me. I'm going to 100% ignore posts from you from this point forward unless you actually deal with one of the central points in my arguments against you (and that's highly unlikely given how poor your analysis and self-justification has been thusfar). Our back and forth is becoming thread clogging. Ah, you beat me to the high road. I agree, it's pretty clear we're talking past each other. We'll see what happens. As you were, thread! | ||
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On March 26 2010 13:31 JeeJee wrote: NO NO NO god i thought having lynched RoL, we would prevent the stupidity of people like tree.hugger. i don't understand >.< guys. say no to nukes. have we all forgotten about ToD? this is the crucial difference between this game and the previous everyone-has-a-gun game. i was expecting one triggerhappy idiot, but after getting lynched so hard i figured nobody else would step up to the plate. yes it's great that you provide your reasoning for nuking but DO SO BEFORE YOU NUKE. and if a sizable amount of people agree with you, proceed. sure it's a little bit of a hassle but it prevents shit like this at this rate the game might be over day 1 and nobody wins. or some 3rd party laughs their ass off. don't you guys see this? stop fucking nuking people. i'll go to sleep and post back in about 9-10 hours when i get to work. L, you are planning to extend the day further? it is good to have more discussion but it also gives more idiots the opportunity to go "hey this fag's a fag! nuke:fag" so keep that in mind when you decide. You have a point, but I think people will be a lot more hesitant to nuke when the radiation levels meter ticks up. The cap is definitely not 1-2, and is probably somewhere between 5-10. So I think there were always going to be nukes in the very beginning, and so it's just a matter of who they're used against. I probably should've been a little more patient with my nuke usage, but, seeing how early we are into the game, I figured that the town could pass judgment the next day just as easily by voting, and in nuking L immediately, I wouldn't have to wait a long time or betray the fact that I did in fact have a nuke to spare on L. | ||
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On March 26 2010 16:16 Bill Murray wrote: Nice one tree.hugger: "First of all, you're criticism of my faulty logic is certainly correct, " Catching up on the thread, on page 41. Dammit, my grammar fell apart there. "your" On March 26 2010 16:39 Bill Murray wrote: Tree.Hugger: That was not the best course of action that you could have pursued. Just because L was putting FoS on you, you didn't have to crack under the pressure. I understand that many people would be mod-killed for what he said to you, but that doesn't warrant you ruining the game for the rest of the world here! I think one nuke won't kill us yet. Keep in mind that although my nuke was the third fired, it'll be the second to hit, providing it falls through. I think this world will survive two nukes. We'll watch the radiation levels. Also, again, I nukes L partially because he was becoming annoying, and partially for the reasons I've been repeating non-stop throughout the game. L is self-interested, not town-interested. He often confuses the two, and this is a detriment to the town, in my option. I saw L starting his same old tricks, including arguing for Japan to roleclaim, and I thought that move would be a poor one. L began to derail the thread, and eventually, I nuked him. We'll be better off for it either way. On March 26 2010 23:58 haster27 wrote: Okay, what we should do now is lynch Tree.hugger day 2 except in off chance his nuke manage to hit L and he flips red. There should NOT be nukes launched against him because he explicitly stated his intention to revenge-nuke and creating more opportunities to waste anti-nukes is simply idiotic. I think even Tree.hugger will agree with what I wrote above considering that he had stated he will lynch himself should this gambit fail. I would agree with you, and vote myself unless.... Now onto the matter of two air-born nukes, for myself I would like to see nuke toward L intercepted The nuke is intercepted. As I've posted before, I'd consider an intercepted nuke to be somewhat of a mafia tell. (Albeit imperfect, but certainly better than most others we've seen this game.) Even if my nuke lands on a green L, I won't regret firing it, but what I've said is that I'd also be willing to take the consequences. and one toward JohnnySpazz unhindered. JohnnySpazz seems to be decent suspect which was being advocated by confirmed Townie ("Abenson") and is not impressing me with his posts. Also what is up with his vague roleclaim? Either not roleclaim at all, or reveal full extent of your abilities so Town can make better decision about what to do with you. On the contrary, I would like nuke toward L intercepted for the same reason I suggested shooting down Caller's nuke; telling the non-concensus nukers that they are not the above Town's law. Hell if the people are not getting message from RoL lynch, then we'll just have to force feed this simple fact over and over again until they hurl. Moreover L would likely have been voted out day 1 if I had not initiated bandwagon against Abenson to exactly prevent this- I think the fact that he was bandwagoned against to near death itself proves that he is likely Town-oriented. Haster, I don't really understand where you're coming from here. Your double standard is a little alarming, why would you not save JSpazz, when, based on personal convictions only you might suspect him a little? I don't think, given the cavalier attitude with which RoL fired the nuke, that he was really intending to hit a mafia or townie or anything. The intent with the RoL nuke was just to mess with someone. Meanwhile, my intent with the L nuke was to eliminate someone who I see as a anchor to the town's effort at best, and mafia at worst. I think my nuke's direction had a whole lot more of a reason to be chosen than RoL's did. You can show that I am not above town law by lynching me. I've stated this time and time again. I got the message from the RoL lynch loud and clear, but I fired that nuke for a reason, and I'm willing to face the consequences should it fail. Also, you really can't continue lynching non-approved nukers past Day 2 and my possible lynch. Otherwise, you'll end up lynching all the town, and the mafia who didn't do anything will laugh and win. But I think we should let the nuke fall on L, and wait for the mafia to bail him out, or not. Town should not waste any more anti-nukes. | ||
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On March 27 2010 01:30 Zona wrote: I think he means anchor in terms of something holding back a ship. Rather than the other interpretation of anchor, being a solid foundation to build something on. Oh yeah, I never thought about the other positive connotation. I was originally going to say 'parasite' but I subbed it out for something a little less harsh. I meant 'anchor' as in the object that prevents forward progress, and weighs the team down. So to clarify; "Meanwhile, my intent with the L nuke was the eliminate someone who I see as a parasite to the town's effort." Sorry for the confusion. | ||
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On March 27 2010 03:43 Bill Murray wrote: So, given the current situation of us having airborne nukes and no plan, WHAT'S THE PLAN? Also, I'm waiting on L.M.N.O.P. to come out with a huge wall of text. I think we're in a bit of a limbo until the nukes hit, or are shot down. When they do, and we figure out to what faction Jspazz and L belong, we can start to see how people interacted with either player. Then we've got the night period, where we're essentially waiting to see what the mafia's next move is. Finally, after night, we'll have a dead townie, and more evidence with which to judge the most appropriate Day 2 lynch, whether that be myself or someone else. *** In essence, we're waiting for someone to make another move, (or not make one). | ||
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On March 27 2010 03:55 Bill Murray wrote: Right. I know that much. What I'm asking is what the town consensus is. I know what you want to do: Let the nukes hit and mess up our beautiful Earth. I personally want to save them both, regardless of their color, as I want to save the ToD. I know the argument is "well, it's only a couple nukes (the first few that could hit of the game)", but we can't continue to think this way. Well, now that you've used an environmentalist argument against me, I'm torn! My country hereby will commit to devoting acres of land to national parks, and each citizen of my country will plant a tree tomorrow. Also, we're participating in earth hour. *** But in all seriousness, we need to weigh the consideration about saving our anti-nukes as well. I think as well, that allowing at least one or two nukes to fall might be beneficial, in that by seeing how the radiation levels change, we might be able to put up a better guess at where the ToD actually is. You're right in that we can't continue to think this way, but 'continue' implies future action, if we let both nukes fall, then we can subsequently not fire any other nukes. | ||
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On March 27 2010 04:20 L wrote: If you were so worried about the number of town controlled anti-nukes, why would you attempt to nuke me prior to asking people? I was going to extend the day if requested anyways; there was plenty of time to talk about it. "its okay for me but not for anyone else to do what I did" Cool beans. Well, yes that's exactly what I'm arguing. I mean, the nuke's in the air, no point in second guessing the past, eh? At least you actually understood something I said for once. (But I thought you were going to ignore me?) On March 27 2010 04:24 Bill Murray wrote: Unless someone gives me a reason not to other than "it will make you look like mafia", I'm going to be anti-nuking the nuke that is going at L soon. I would rather use what I have than get capped in the night by mafia and have it be unused. I've tried to provide a reason. If L is mafia, then we should let the mafia save him. We should not waste town anti-nukes on people who are not confirmed townies. But even more so, Bill, what the hell were you thinking with that? You've made a huge mistake to claim your possession of anti-nukes, BM. There was nothing suggesting you would be killed in the night, until now. Which means that if you aren't killed tonight, I'll be damn suspicious of you. And at that, to be honest, I really don't see an out for you. You've essentially requested to be killed in the night, and the choice is whether or not you feel like using your powers. I believe that we let the nuke fall on L, and see what color he is, and whether or not anyone stages an intervention on his behalf. But in claiming to posses anti-nukes, you've essentially destroyed the possibility of the town using them later in the game for our own benefits. That's like roleclaiming to be the last medic in the game. That's the most unproductive thing ANYONE has done this game. Goddammit. | ||
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On March 27 2010 04:24 Bill Murray wrote: Unless someone gives me a reason not to other than "it will make you look like mafia", I'm going to be anti-nuking the nuke that is going at L soon. I would rather use what I have than get capped in the night by mafia and have it be unused. Also, why would you attempt to save L over JSpazz? You yourself should know clearly what happens when we let L run his own witch hunts against random townies whom he doesn't like. I guess it's just a matter of preference, but from my perspective, JSpazz deserved it a lot less. | ||
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On March 27 2010 06:29 Elemenope wrote: First off - what the fuck at these nukes. I really hope that after the game, RoL gives some insight about why he decided to use his revenge nuke on jspazz rather than caller. As for the L vs whoever crap: stop being so clouded by emotions. Holy shit. People can be dick to others, but that doesn't make them any less town than others. Yeah, L may have a history of running buses, but like I said earlier - if you think he's running an unjustified bus, attack his argument, not the person. A lot of people are confrontational, but we can't just attack L because he seems to act like a douche while responding to everybody else with logic. If you feel that wrongly about L, look past the name, and look at the posts for flaws. He's already posted way more than some of our lurkers. If you think somebody's wrong, attack his arguments. You don't even have completely destroy the argument, just put doubt in people's minds so that player doesn't get bused. To be fair, this all started with a debate over whether or not the person who launched the first anti-nuke should come forward. That was an argument about facts and strategy, and would've remained so had it not escalated. I think we're both mutually responsible for that one. Eventually it got to a point where it was derailing the thread, and I was seriously starting to doubt L's intentions in pursuing a strategy that would almost certainly get an innocent townie killed, at least in my view. Somewhere along the line here, L apparently 'eviscerated' my arguments. I'm repeating myself, but there were other reasons for my nuke beyond thinking L was an arrogant asshole. Regardless of the outcome - my first lynch target is going to be tree.hugger due to him claiming responsibility and because he launched an unsupported nuke. If you believe this to be in the best interests of the town, so be it. | ||
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On March 27 2010 08:25 Iaaan wrote: And nukes shouldn't be fired without discussion, but I have changed my opinion, we should account for them once they have been fired and use them to our advantage, not just save people and lynch idiots, if we can be reasonably certain that they are town. Essentially my position. Nuke's in the air, maybe I made a bad call, and maybe I made a lucky call, but either way, there's no going back and taking it back, there's only the choice of whether to shoot it down or not. On March 27 2010 07:16 Elemenope wrote: these three reasons spread over two posts. 1) Invalid From a purely logical point of view, yes, I concede the point. 2) So if we're curious about someone being scum, we should just launch a nuke and ask for it to hit because we can't force a rolecheck either way? Oh, of course not. My example is a terrible one to follow, I would certainly not like anyone else repeating it. 3) Then shift the focus away from that. If you think he's being a detriment to the town, state so - use CAPS bold giant red coloring to get attention. I didn't use caps, but I did think he was making a terrible argument/advocating a terrible strategy, and I said this many times. The only reason why L has the ability to derail threads is because people fall into his 'word traps'. L can't derail a thread by himself, the player list isn't just L, L, L, L, L. That's what L thinks, though. On March 27 2010 07:21 L wrote: Its more like L is dumb enough to refute arguments multiple times, so when they're restated he repeats his counter argument. I think I'm going to start numbering my posts and paragraphs so that I can refer back to the argument in paragraph 2, post 6 or some shit. You've seriously got to tone the ego down. You're right as often as you're wrong. Get it into your head that your intellectual weight is no greater or lesser than anyone else here, we're all trying to do our best to support the town effort, and that by working with people you can achieve more than by browbeating everyone into falling into line behind yourself. Learn a little humility, and learn a little patience, and learn to treat people with a little more respect. | ||
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Oh, and this is hilarious. | ||
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On March 27 2010 08:58 johnnyspazz wrote: forget what i said about my day 2 abilities, i dont have anything special besides nuking. i'm just going to save myself, obviously, and save L, because i dont think nuking someone for personal reasons is smart. i'm letting the ToD stay at zero. So wait, you mean after you use your two anti-nukes, you'll have nothing special besides nuking? Fair enough, we start again with zero evidence of anything, and down three anti-nukes. Not where I hoped we'd be, but it's your right to save yourself. | ||
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What is this madness? | ||
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On March 27 2010 12:06 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: This is true. I should have said 99% not town. It's possible it's a trick to get us to go after XeLiN, though i haven't seen him be particularly helpful anyway. regardless, i'm pretty sure we have to lynch tree hugger tomorrow? Wrong, we have to lynch North Korea. Also, since my nuke didn't land, I won't be voting for myself tomorrow. I regret that a little, because I was honest, and I wanted people to know my sincerity, but oh well. This is the game that keeps on giving. | ||
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On March 27 2010 12:15 Elemenope wrote: Yes, let's lynch NK! So, who are we lynching again? Well yeah, therein lies the problem. Also to address L's point, I'd don't see myself nuking anyone else in the near future. | ||
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On March 27 2010 12:18 L wrote: Well, you're looking at this from the perspective of a game without information; Anti-nuking now instead of later means we have more information prior to mafia being able to start their kill machine going. Given the method of lynching is by majority vote, it means that more information early provides us with more analysis for lynches during a time in which the volume of mafia input is minimal. Additionally, yeah, the town had spoken pretty clearly. The only people who presented a strong opposition to the save as far as I can tell are tree.hugger, Versatile, Iaaan and Fishball. I'm probably missing someone here, but look at that list: 3 of the members there are people who initially wanted to get rid of me during my ban duration which was an obvious anti-town move. By contrast, players who are relatively confirmed or confirmed, spazz and opz, for instance, were against letting shit hit. If someone throws a subsequent nuke in the face of the entire town saying "no more nukes" (except to kill people nuking, imo) its a pretty clear sign of mafia intention. So if Versatile IS town, actually going through with her threat now might suck up another anti-nuke, and will result in her death either way. If she's mafia, she doesn't really give a shit. She's very high on a huge spectrum of players' radars already. Either way, I still don't understand this "anti-nukes are better later!!!" statement. They're good to stop town directed hits always. The more people we keep alive who are town oriented, the stronger the town direction during lynches is. The more townies who die, the more nukes, anti-nukes, and abilities we lose. This is actually pretty well argued. I think what this hinges on is exactly how many anti-nukes the town has. Which is a number that, of course, we don't know. I feel that Japan likely has at least one more, given the cavalier attitude with which they threw that first one out. I don't know if Bill Murray has others, although he's admitted to having at least a nuke. Beyond that, we don't know that much, and JSpazz's death removes another source of anti-nukes. People with anti-nukes would be smart to keep at least one in reserve. On March 27 2010 12:28 Elemenope wrote: A remark we can't exactly trust, especially given the situation that transpired. That's not true, you can trust what I say. I haven't said one dishonest thing this game—no matter what you think about the 'quality' of my comments. When I said I'd vote for myself if you flipped green, I meant it. When I say I won't be nuking in the near future, I mean it. Argue against my decisions and ideas, but there's no benefit for me in deceiving anybody. | ||
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On March 27 2010 12:58 Bill Murray wrote: Believe me about my reasoning or not, but here it is: L and LMNOP to me are both very pro-town this game. L has his own personal way of helping the town when he is green/blue, which is to put heavy FoS onto one person. That's all hes been doing this game. He has been going after tree.hugger much the same way that he went after me when I made two stupid crucial voteswings that looked like they resulted in both an innocent death, and a botched election. In my defense, I wasn't sure if he was red last game, as I wasn't all that familiar with his style when hes pro-town because the only game I had played with him previously to that one he was red. I do not really have a read on many other people, and I don't know if I even really trust LMNOP as much as I trust L. I could be wrong, I've been wrong in the past. I've posted a list of 5 names where only 1/5 were correct (Malongo), but many reputable players have made a similar mistake (showtime, for instance). I'm not saying I'm perfect, but given my read of L being pro-town, and the fact that I could die before getting to use that in the night-period as I mistakenly and stupidly let my possession of my weaponry be known to everyone. Should I sit back and let a fellow town-member die? No. Would I if it was someone who was not contributing to the thread? Sure. That being said, it is obvious that I feel like L is contributing his heart and soul to catching whoever is conspiring behind the scenes. He has put more FoS this game than some of you have put throughout your entire mafia careers. If you really feel like he is red because of my anti-nuking for him, lynch me, and offer your own head when I don't flip red, because I won't. "He who saves one life saves the world entire" I have saved and preserved the world as it is, and this was my goal. I have done my part to guarantee that the ToD will not have risen from the improper actions that have taken place. You all should consider trying to stop nuking so we can save the world. I don't think anyone is really disagreeing with your decision, BM, I certainly see where you're coming from. Honestly, the minute you claimed anti-nukes, your options were pretty limited. I wish you would've been a little more subtle about it, but hey, what's done is done. You also missed my grand plan, which was to broker a peace between you and L, by having you save his life. Yes, everyone, that was the plan all along! | ||
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On March 27 2010 13:12 tree.hugger wrote: You also missed my grand plan, which was to broker a peace between you and L, by having you save his life. Yes, everyone, that was the plan all along! On March 27 2010 13:14 Bill Murray wrote: hahahaha On March 27 2010 13:49 L wrote: And herein we discover mafia players or players who are so intensely bad that I will replace my prior target of bill murray with them in future games. + Show Spoiler + You're all very welcome. Is my Nobel in the mail? | ||
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On March 27 2010 23:16 ~OpZ~ wrote: Have we gotten any real posts of opinions from amber or d3_crescentia? Also, if you have an anti-nuke PLEASE god save L again. Look this is retarded to argue he's mafia. And when he pops green EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has pointed their finger at him will have a problem: To explain why they wanted him dead so hard before he had gotten back from his ban. Inactivity?! L as BM has said, L has made more posts than most people in this thread, and HE WAS GONE FOR 48 HOURS! Oh, and the difference between L's posts and most other peoples posts? HIS ARE NOT DEVOID OF CONTENT. Points for saving L -most likely green (he was getting bussed for being inactive, rofl) -has posted plenty of useful information, and probably outed a mafia or two already Also, where has Zona gone?!?!? L can defend himself, nonetheless, your passionate pleas on his behalf are really adorable. | ||
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On March 28 2010 01:53 meeple wrote: Was tree.hugger really high on the lynch list? I know he nuked without town consensus but technically the nuke got shot down. As for lynching Versatile... well it's pretty obvious she's being fairly anti-town and just doing whatever the hell she wants to do... so I'd agree with lynching but I still have the same twinges of regret since we're not really any closer to bagging us some mafia. I was high on the lynch list for disobeying the town consensus, never (I suspect) for being a prime mafia suspect. Now that other people have done the same in a far more egregious fashion, and there's this NK nuke in the air, from a highly likely mafia source, I think my punishment has been downgraded a little in importance. | ||
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On March 28 2010 06:30 L wrote: 4) tree.hugger still needs to die before he has the chance at throwing out another nuke at anyone. Dude, are you blind? How many times do I need to say that I won't be firing another nuke out in the foreseeable future? Do you have trust issues? Did you take it hard when you learned the tooth fairy was a lie or something? I'm not going to nuke. I'm not going to nuke. I'm not going to nuke. | ||
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On March 27 2010 10:28 Elemenope wrote: + Show Spoiler +I'm going to go with my instinct and say XeliN launched the nuke in which case I ask: why? On March 27 2010 10:33 haster27 wrote: Why suddenly Xelin out of all people? On March 27 2010 10:52 Elemenope wrote: ctrl+f'd his posts, saw he generally started posting during the day at around 3-4KST in this thread, he stated he was suspicious of me with no real reasoning, and he has been very inactive due to recent turn of events. My guess it's another one of those "I'm curious" ala tree.hugger. The guy's only reasonable contribution is the suggestion of insta-lynch for someone who nukes unsupported. He then goes into an argument with fishball over a hypothetical situation or wifom or something. He puts a vote on Abenson, citing that inactivity is something that can't be allowed. He then abstains his vote, and later puts it on me, reasoning - because I advocated lynching Abenson to see if OpZ was in fact telling the truth or not. I later stated this was because at the time, all we had was OpZ's word on the matter, Abenson hadn't confirmed. Abenson later comes in, votes, goes off, then comes back later confirming. As such, I stated that I'm perfectly fine with the claim that OpZ and Abenson are in fact Masons and I have cleared them of suspicion for now. Keep in mind that he himself suspected OpZ for being scum based on language OpZ used, and then retracted his suspicion when OpZ made the roleclaim. I made similar retractions, only after the other party (which is pretty fucking important in making a Mason claim), responded as such. He votes RoL, then later removes his vote, even though he was the one who advocated lynching of people who fire nukes. Really? He hasn't contributed anything of late since these more recent nukes which makes me highly suspicious of him. Basically, my instinct is that - a) he has proposed two ideas, one being that we autovote lynch unsupported nukes, the other being that inactivity should be punished b) he has accused me c) he starts posting at around 3-4KST and continues afterwards into the evening and d) he abstained the vote on the unsupported launch of RoL, and is currently contributing nothing to town discussion; two things in direct opposite of what his main points were earlier leads me to believe that he launched this nuke, especially given that the person who launched this is anonymous and can't be held accountable for it. Either way - FoS on XeliN, whether he launched this nuke or not. On March 27 2010 10:55 XeliN wrote: What does FoS mean? and no, I did not launch this nuke on you, I personally would be happy to see it hit though. On March 27 2010 11:07 Elemenope wrote: Finger of Suspicion. Perhaps you'd like to explain your actions then about *** On March 27 2010 12:24 XeliN wrote: "Excuse me" was in reference mainly to this, should have quoted. On March 27 2010 12:26 L wrote: Uh, I'm talking about tree.hugger. You know, like I've been doing the entire time. Bit too defensive there, cowboy. Calm it down. On March 27 2010 12:27 haster27 wrote: I think L was referring to tree.hugger, or am I missing something. On March 27 2010 12:29 XeliN wrote: Oh I see, skimmed the quotes before yours and saw me mentioned like 3 times so figured you were jumping on Elemenopes suspicions. On March 27 2010 12:31 Elemenope wrote: Since you're around here, perhaps you'd like to explain? I'd at least like a basis of reasoning behind your actions, nothing more. On March 27 2010 12:41 XeliN wrote: What exactly are you asking me? you've listed my actions as well as my reasons why in your own post. Just to humour you i'll try to explain my thought process whilst I was making them. Voted OpZ initially, I had gone through the thread and had decided to vote for the person I considered most suspicious on a one time readthrough just to get things going, thought his post seemed suspicious and placed on him. Change my vote to Abenson after someone (I think it was you) highlighted that he had made 1 post total and that it included a lynch vote, this seemed both mafiaesque and unacceptable so switched my vote to him. I then decided to change my vote and place it on you, you argued quite strongly for lynching one of either OpZ and Abenson and it seemed to me plainly obvious that they were telling the truth. As you don't seem like a dumb person I thought it odd that you would argue for their lynch and claim "they haven't been proven" (My reasoning was yes they hadn't been proven yet it was far far far more likely they were telling the truth) Then I vote for RoL because of his inactivity and not because of his Nuking, I later remove the vote as it seems clear that RoL is not mafia as not one person in the thread had attempted to defend him or try to get a lynch on someone else going. If he was mafia they would have had to defend him so didn't want to waste it voting for someone who seemed obviously townie. And ending with this piece of comedy gold. On March 28 2010 06:24 XeliN wrote: Grrrr, I'm almost certain this is not an intelligent thing to say but I'm irritated. I'm North Korea, I am pro-town and I shot the nuke, I had one nuke that I could fire anomynously and chose Elemenope because I'm fairly sure he's mafia. Other suspects I had in mind were Caller and Bill but they were more suspicions and I was more sure of LMNOP. Now start the moaning about how bad I am and what a stupid thing it was to do, but I have a question, who shot it down and why? XeliN, that nuke actually topped the cake for making less sense any other before. My nuke on L is looking like the model of restraint. | ||
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On March 28 2010 07:12 meeple wrote: i would think an anonymous nuke would have been better used on someone that the town had talked about being scummy, that way it at least has a chance of landing and not being shot down. Shooting it off randomly like that was... interesting, but I suppose I don't blame you. I think you're being way too charitable (suspiciously charitable?) to a nuke fired anonymously at someone who really hadn't incurred any suspicion at all, and was actually being fairly helpful. XeliN you can be helpful by explaining why you were seriously sure LMNOP was mafia. | ||
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Understand this: I nuke when I want to nuke, I don't nuke when I don't want to nuke. I didn't just nuke you for the hell of it, because I wouldn't nuke anyone for the hell of it. I nuked you for a reason. I'm also honest. I never tried to hide anything about why I nuked you. You disagree about my reasons, obviously, and I don't blame you at all, I think everyone would in your situation. But when I say that I will not nuke anybody, I mean that I will not nuke anybody. If the town lynches me, let it be because they believe me to be mafia, and not because they're afraid I'm just going to fly off the handle and start blasting away. | ||
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Here's a question that nobody's posed yet: Have any of the nukes yet fired been fake? So far, we can confirm the one nuke that's fallen, RoL's was a real nuke, and thus we can probably assume that his nuke on Caller was also real. There is no real reason to suppose, being town aligned that his nukes would be fake. And I know that my nuke was a real nuke, although I can't objectively prove that. But beyond that, I don't know. And I'm curious if all the nukes fired so far have actually been real nukes. The reason it's important to know, of course, is that a fake nuke is almost definitely a mark for the mafia, an attempt to waste a town anti-nuke. And since we've been blasting away with our anti-nukes, we've given cover for the mafia to launch nukes with the idea that they'll be shot down. I'll look a little deeper into this in an hour, but it's just about time I shut down this computer. Godspeed town, may the day never descend into night! | ||
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On March 28 2010 10:45 L wrote: Yep, tree.hugger. I don't see why ANY of the non-consensus nukers aren't going to be killed prior to them getting another shot. On March 28 2010 10:55 L wrote: Well, when I die and flip if i'm not saved, I'd kinda like people to nuke the people I'm telling them to nuke prior to them getting another opportunity to throw nukes out. That alone makes it worthwhile for me. Jesus. Christ. Do you ever listen? On March 27 2010 12:17 tree.hugger wrote: Also to address L's point, I'd don't see myself nuking anyone else in the near future. On March 27 2010 13:06 tree.hugger wrote: That's not true, you can trust what I say. I haven't said one dishonest thing this game—no matter what you think about the 'quality' of my comments. When I said I'd vote for myself if you flipped green, I meant it. When I say I won't be nuking in the near future, I mean it. Argue against my decisions and ideas, but there's no benefit for me in deceiving anybody. On March 28 2010 06:46 tree.hugger wrote: Dude, are you blind? How many times do I need to say that I won't be firing another nuke out in the foreseeable future? Do you have trust issues? Did you take it hard when you learned the tooth fairy was a lie or something? I'm not going to nuke. I'm not going to nuke. I'm not going to nuke. On March 28 2010 10:18 tree.hugger wrote: Understand this: I nuke when I want to nuke, I don't nuke when I don't want to nuke. I didn't just nuke you for the hell of it, because I wouldn't nuke anyone for the hell of it. I nuked you for a reason. I'm also honest. I never tried to hide anything about why I nuked you. You disagree about my reasons, obviously, and I don't blame you at all, I think everyone would in your situation. But when I say that I will not nuke anybody, I mean that I will not nuke anybody. If the town lynches me, let it be because they believe me to be mafia, and not because they're afraid I'm just going to fly off the handle and start blasting away. Here's my problem L. I know full well that you don't believe me when I say that I won't throw off a nuke for the hell of it. I can't help that, you're entitled to your own special interpretation of reality. But at the very least, acknowledge this instead of blindly flogging the same dead horse over and over again. And while your at it, please tell me why exactly you don't believe that I won't fire off more nukes. Here's my argument, L, still following me? I have absolutely no reason to nuke anyone else this game. A nuke is already incoming at you, so even if I wanted to nuke you again, even if I didn't think I hadn't learned enough from the first time, even if I thought you were somehow worth the special attention, I wouldn't have to nuke you, because Versatile has already done it. That said, I do not want to nuke you again, you're not worth it, and I think I've gotten enough out of my first nuke for it not to be cost-efficient for me to do it again. And there is nobody else out there right now for whom I have sufficient suspicions against to warrant firing off another nuke. And finally, thanks to you, it's still day 1, and I can't nuke anyway. *** Your idea for counter-nuking the people who've nuked already is ill-conceived and anti-town. As versatile has pointed out, AND demonstrated, nuking people who've already been shown to have nukes is just downright stupid and suicidal. It's one thing for you to suggest that someone else nukes the person who nuked first. But then, who'd be willing to carry that judgment out, when it would possibly lead to a retaliatory nuke against themselves? In your scenario, all that happens is more dead townies, all in the name of justice. To quote Mahatma Gandhi; "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." | ||
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On March 28 2010 12:47 L wrote: Here's mine: Well, okay then. At least I know how much you read. You're probably mafia and you're going to nuke again come daytime. I really don't give a shit about you say you're going to do, you already nuked once and should die immediately. Scenario #1: 1) I am mafia 2) I nuked 3) Upon being nuked, I immediately retaliatory nuke, or am saved by a fellow mafia member. Result: Town is in trouble, strategy flawed. Strategy #2: 1) I am town 2) I am nuked 3) Upon being nuked, I fulfill my promise, and do not retaliatory nuke. I die. Result: Town loses a townie, strategy flawed. *** Lets look at the facts: you said once I died you'd be okay with dying. Right? Right. I'd be okay with dying if my nuke was proven to be unjust and the town wanted me dead, yes. I stand by my word. So if that's the case, I'm probably going to get nuked in 3 hours because Versatile's a complete loser. I'm not entirely sure you'll be nuked, but continue... I'm going to flip town. When that happens why would you resist being nuked given that you admit that you'd LYNCH YOURSELF at that point? Do you just want to tie up another town lynch? Think about it. There's no way out of it. I would resist being nuked because that would raise the ToD even further. Presumably if you are not saved, and neither are Versatile and BM, the ToD will be much nearer. *** As versatile has pointed out, AND demonstrated, nuking people who've already been shown to have nukes is just downright stupid and suicidal. No, Versatile has demonstrated that she is anti-town by THROWING OUT THREE NUKES. [/quote]I'm not arguing that Versatile's moves were wise, or beneficial to the town, I'm simply saying that Versatile's retaliatory nuke was understandable. Everyone always wants to go out with a bang. Do you fucking THINK before you post? WHAT IS THERE TO STOP PEOPLE FROM NUKING WHOMEVER THEY WANT IF YOU THINK THAT COUNTER-NUKING ISNT AN OPTION? I do think before I post. I would imagine you do to, but differently. Tolerate difference. And there's nothing that would prevent people from nuking, except the suspicion of the town. That's one of the reasons that attempted to explain fully the reasons why I nuked you. If people nuke, they're calling attention to themselves, and of course they've got to have a good enough reason to do so, or be able to justify it some how in the eyes of the town. We just don't have the resources or the coordination at our disposal to be able to administer justice and uphold laws like would be optimal. We've got to make do with what we have. We're already going to have our lynches booked until day 3. The more nukes that are fired according to your plan, the less disincentive there is to nuke. Do you not get why that might be bad? Do you not understand how fucked that is? But then, who'd be willing to carry that judgment out, when it would possibly lead to a retaliatory nuke against themselves? In your scenario, all that happens is more dead townies, all in the name of justice. So essentially here you state that people should be willing not to nuke you because you'd nuke them back? But you just said you aren't going to nuke anymore. So why wouldn't someone nuke you at this point?[/QUOTE]I wasn't speaking specifically about myself. You also want to nuke XeliN, if I remember correctly. Your obsession with justice simply isn't applicable at this point in the game. It's time to take what we have right now, and deal with it in an appropriate and calm manner. Maybe it works, maybe it won't. I think your strategy would lead to intolerable ruin, and thus, we've got to soldier on in a different direction, no matter how uncertain and risky that direction is. We should let the mafia beat us, rather than get beaten by ourselves. | ||
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On March 28 2010 13:21 L wrote: -we just lost a lynch. -we've taken the same amount of nukes towards town, only you can throw your nuke whereever you want. -we don't have the option of nuking you on day 2 because you can still retaliate. So the net effect of not killing you is essentially granting you a gratis nuke usage. I just. Look, I'll only say it one more time. No, actually I wont. Go away L. You're a stubborn asshole, who has no sense of trust or decency. I really hope you don't live your life this way, because if you treat people in life like you do on the internet, I feel sorry for you, because you have no friends. If you're being nuked and you're town, why wouldn't you throw a nuke onto the person you're most suspicious of? You're already going to die, why not take the KP into your own hands and fix the town up on your own? Did you even read what I quoted? I said that I will fulfill my promise. Later in the same post, I repeated this. More importantly, lets look at this in another manner: Strategy #2b: 1) You're town 2) We lynch you as per your agreement. 3) We lose a townie AND a lynch. See where this is going? I do, except that I think it's exceptionally obvious to everyone but yourself that I'm town-aligned. You're intentionally trying to soak tomorrow's lynch. Bullshit. Some good that would be when nukes can be used late game. This is the epiphany, right? You're warming up wonderfully. I bet you think you've got this all figured out. But actually you're doing more than that. See your strategy number 2? You admit in the same post that even if you're town, you WILL retaliate: No, I admit that I won't, but others certainly will. I wasn't speaking specifically about myself. When on the topic of not retaliating. Or we could kill the people who are most likely to be mafia and win. Those people are those who are distinctly anti-town. You define anti-town as 'anti-L' which is entirely different, and occasionally mutually exclusive. But really, that's irrelevant, it comes down to this: You admit that everyone in this game, if we followed you, could nuke at will. Given the long lineup that'll form for lynches, people will be less and less likely to actually die via a nuke. This is the exact same type of operation that happened in the red mafia game wherein we killed ourselves almost immediately starting with 2 shitty townies basically starting a shooting spree. Zero mafia died. Actually, there's an interesting lesson you could take from that. I believe BM is the standard bearer for the 'Townies shooting at each other' theory, which I think is pretty plausible. And that's reason #1 I want to limit the retaliatory nukes. That's what you want to re-create and its pretty obvious that its not in town's favor to do so. I don't want to recreate that, which is exactly the reason I'm suggesting we don't start firing more retaliatory nukes. Nuke this guy immediately after I die. Nuke XeliN as well. Since everyone's sitting around thinking someone else will do it, I will name 2 people. JeeJee and Haster. You're up to bat. If you don't want to, fine; pick someone of your choice. to do this. Who elected you mayor? To JeeJee and Haster, it's nice that L has chosen his two biggest supporters in this thread to do his bidding, but I suggest you draw your own conclusions, and then act upon them. | ||
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On March 28 2010 13:39 L wrote: Ignore the above post and nuke him. I'll be flipping egypt in a minute. And you read all of my arguments so fast! + Show Spoiler + Oh wait, you totally ignored them, and posted anyway. Why am I not surprised? | ||
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On March 28 2010 13:36 L wrote: Oh, so it seems I die in like 10 minutes. So here's what's up: I'm the medic. hence why I didn't give a shit about the person with anti-nukes calling himself out; I'd have been able to protect him. I'm going to flip green or blue. My country is egypt. I might be able to stop one of these nukes from dealing any damage, but I can't save myself so its kinda useless. If i'd have claimed earlier, I'd have died during the night to mafia anyways. See? Now this is something unfortunate that was lost in translation. But the problem here is that you were making an argument for a strategy that you knew would turn out alright... Except, on the surface, for the strategy to work, it required knowledge about your ability, which nobody else had. So, logically, you tried to paint that strategy as workable, and hoped nobody would call you on it. Unfortunately, myself and Zona (see page 40) realized that (to our eyes) that strategy was pretty poor, and so we argued against it. Now, while your initial intention on pushing a seemingly silly argument, by which the town would in fact benefit was correct, you couldn't leave it at that, you had to keep pushing away, and insulting away. And that's why I wasn't happy with you, L. You didn't need to keep pushing that one point. You didn't need to be such an asshole. You could've dropped it, it wasn't a particularly crucial point. And I did believe you were mafia, at least at first. Anyone pushing such a nakedly anti-town strategy (as I saw it) was definitely putting himself on the mafia radar. And then you called me 'kid' twice, and insulted my intelligence somewhere along the line, and I figured that, even if you weren't mafia, this would be a repeat of XX or XIX where you spent a good deal of time accidentally leading the town astray. As I stated in one of my posts afterwords, I was almost positive that my nuke would not be allowed to land, and so I thought my nuke would be a convenient role check. Unfortunately, BM spoiled my plan by claiming anti-nukes so early, and so I really didn't learn as much as I had wanted to. But I was being wholly honest when I said I wasn't going to nuke again, and especially not you. I felt as though I had learned enough through the reactions of some people. I did not approve of Versatile's strike because I was decently sure you were just being angry, and were not mafia. But I had nothing to do with that. In the end, before you roleclaimed and then got nuked, I was about 75% sure you were town, but what could I do? I have nothing to shoot down nukes. I'm truly sorry you died... this time. *** One final thing, It's funny because you stated that you asked Ace if it was alright to yell at me, and I actually pm'd the same thing—he must've thought it was hilarious—two people asking to argue with each other. | ||
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You've advocated Day 2 lynching me, then XeliN, and then Caller over the last two pages. Please stop spamming the thread. You, Versatile, Abenson, and the rest of your mafia compatriots should probably stop attracting more suspicion. | ||
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On March 29 2010 01:54 ~OpZ~ wrote: Sorry man. I gotta go to work...And I keep spamming I know, but whats the point? My wall of text? I explained what that was for, because the vote list for L should be considered very important. I was posting the arguments and who argued against him. Wait...I got a brilliant idea... Bye bye. ##Nuke: Tree.Hugger -_- I'm Canada btw. So much for Canadian pacifism. I could nuke you back. But I won't, at least not now. I promised no more nukes, and I think I'll stick to that. | ||
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Hey, Opz, I spent 24 hours explaining why I nuked L, I'd like to ask you to explain why exactly you felt it was necessary to nuke me. | ||
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On March 29 2010 10:00 ~OpZ~ wrote: Zona, I never agreed to the town consensus on controlling arms. I'm also Canada, eh? Let's just assume its the real deal. Also, don't lump me in with them. I'm nuking someone who is highly suspicious...Also, the Will of L compels me. (Seriously though, L screamed pro town and he randomly nukes him, not cool). Bro, You nuked someone without asking town permission. You're in with the rest of us, whether you like it or not. I intended to nuke someone who was highly suspicious as well. So did XeliN. You can't have it both ways. Reading these last few pages, I'm starting to regret my restraint in not nuking you in retaliation. The only reason I figure you're not mafia is because I doubt I'm a particularly important target for the mafia to hit. But you're not really earning your keep so to speak. When I flip green tomorrow, I'd like a posthumous apology for your lack of common sense. | ||
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On March 29 2010 10:06 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'll let you get pummeled with a missile then explain myself...wait. You'll be dead quick enough, and I might not even need to explain myself, amirite? But to satisfy your question, go back and reread the last 5 pages. See how many times your name pops up. See how many times it's in a good way. See how many times it's in a bad way. See where I'm going with this? Oh, and reread that post about the mafia HAVING to apologize for nuke. And, and read my long ass wall of quotes you said was worthless...Let's have some alignments appear. It's gonna be 2012 in this bitch. No, you can't get away with being an asshole and not explaining anything. Good try. | ||
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On March 29 2010 00:42 ~OpZ~ wrote: tree.hugger first....or maybe caller. On March 29 2010 01:24 ~OpZ~ wrote: p.s.....I want to nuke you...I want to nuke you good...but I think the town wants me to hold off...I had forgot about you for a sec...I propose Xelin for lynch tomorrow... All Opposed? All For? On March 29 2010 01:33 ~OpZ~ wrote: We will lynch Caller tomorrow unless Japan steps forward. Whoever Japan was could of made a case for defending caller without ever stepping forward, so I say we lynch Caller. *** On March 29 2010 00:24 ~OpZ~ wrote: Oh, and don't get me wrong....Versatile is still a jack ass for that. He killing L gave us...almost zero new information actually...Lol. That's the sad part. Who didn't already assume he was pro-town? Sure know we know for certain, but fuck he was already doing a shit ton that shown him to be pro-town. What? On March 29 2010 01:33 ~OpZ~ wrote: Caller should have died. No one has defended him. Unless he comes god mode, I say he dies on day 2. Huh? On March 29 2010 01:51 ~OpZ~ wrote: RoL did not get lynched because of firing the nuke. Hell he almost got saved for that! Someone built a good case for the last second wanting to switch votes off of him that I was completely up for? Wait, what? On March 29 2010 10:00 ~OpZ~ wrote: Also, don't lump me in with them. I'm nuking someone who is highly suspicious...Also, the Will of L compels me. (Seriously though, L screamed pro town and he randomly nukes him, not cool). Wait, how does that even work? On March 29 2010 10:06 ~OpZ~ wrote: Oh, and reread that post about the mafia HAVING to apologize for nuke. And, and read my long ass wall of quotes you said was worthless...Let's have some alignments appear. It's gonna be 2012 in this bitch. I'm so confused. Alignments? 2012? On March 29 2010 10:08 ~OpZ~ wrote: Oh well...It'd be smarter launching your nuke at Caller/Fishball/d3 It's Day One... I mean.. what... I don't even... On March 29 2010 10:16 ~OpZ~ wrote: Ehhhh? Plan I just came up with works brilliant...Just launch another 3-6 nukes at Tree.Hugger and break the game. That simple. .... I give up. On March 29 2010 10:14 ~OpZ~ wrote: I've done explained it Tree.Hugger. Even that post explains it. HAVE YOU NOT SEEN IT SINCE THE PAGE I LAUNCHED IT. The town has unanimously agreed they didn't care if you died. -_- *** On March 29 2010 10:14 ~OpZ~ wrote: Also, I supported the idea of raising the ToD as close to the limit as possible and forcing the mafia into night kill only wins. L's idea of launching multiple nukes at the same target was actually beneficial as fuck now that I've thought about it a little more clearly. If the ToD is almost full, then the mafia must win by USING 1 KP to kill how many townies?! Seriously, we should launch another 5 nukes at you tree.hugger. We should ABUSE our numbers and FRY you....Then its what? 17 players with the mafia hiding in there...but the mafia only get one kill a night. Seriously, what's wrong with this idea? We should really just launch another 3 to 6 nukes at you... Can I nuke you then? | ||
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On March 29 2010 10:32 ~OpZ~ wrote: So lets discuss our lynch targets again. -_- This talk of tree.hugger bores me. I'm pretty sure our lynch targets are: ~Opz~ Because, (and maybe others can vouch for me on this one) your attitude is really really annoying. Better have a town taken over by mafia, then have a town in which people like you are allowed to live. | ||
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On March 29 2010 10:38 ~OpZ~ wrote: Alright...I figure I'll be nice...Let's go to night ##Cancel: Nuke And.... what? | ||
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On March 29 2010 10:43 ~OpZ~ wrote: Look buddy...I don't care...It's done and over with. You've been labeled by scum and directly caused the death of the town medic. Thanks. I don't care because I've already addressed why I think your mafia, L addressed it. Why is it you were on EVERYONES "LYNCH THIS FUCKER" list??? Pretty sure Versatile caused L's death. If you want to argue that I opened the door for that to happen, well then yeah, guilty. But I did not agree with Versatile's nuke, and I think there was nothing to learn from it. I also think I was on everyone's lynch list because I broke town rules, I think if you polled the players in this game, you'd find that most people have figured out by now that I'm town aligned. And I really can't tell if you somehow have the ability to cancel a nuke or not, but L's nuke is still in the air, so it's still daytime, no matter what. | ||
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On March 29 2010 10:48 ~OpZ~ wrote: Thought L's nuke was scheduled to hit at 10:09? Oh, you're right. The post hasn't come out yet, though. | ||
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On March 29 2010 10:53 Zona wrote: tree.hugger - this is a question you should take some time to answer: If/when you flip town, your posts are something we should go over closely, so make the most of it. I'm in the process of writing my obit, stay with me. I'll have it all laid out for you. | ||
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Also, Ace when I die, I'd love to know the role-list. Thanks. *** Alright, since ~OpZ~ the All-Knowing decided to join the idiot brigade, I’ve prepared this little statement, which should gain considerable weight when I flip green, and ~OpZ~ bangs his tiny head against the keyboard. BRIEF HISTORICAL INTERLUDE: I think this is a little how Robespierre felt when he was being led to the guillotine; devoured by the monster he helped create. *** Let’s go to the beginning. I’m Germany, town aligned, and began the game with three nukes. This is actually easily verifiable, in my first post, I dropped a few clues as to my nationality. See if you can find them! On March 23 2010 13:35 tree.hugger wrote: Yes, those are all good ideas. We must do our best to be efficient with our nuclear arsenals. Furthermore, we need everyone to post a great deal in this thread, because, similarly to Mafia XX, behavioral analysis will be paramount. We need people to be able to read the zeitgeist of the thread, so to speak. Analysis should be posted in bulk quantities, we must be unified in our front against the conspiracy. Players with special roles should use them early and often. The French must cook, and should otherwise stay out of the discussion. I voted for L at the beginning of the game because I rate L’s deductive skills fairly poorly, and his constant ‘I’ll vote for myself if Player X isn’t mafia’ ploys struck me as unsporting and frustrating, especially because they were often wrong. I think L’s style of play is on the whole an unproductive one, he takes his analysis as gospel, and does not tolerate dissent in a way that is unhealthy for the town. When people began to take votes away from L, I was busy with a class, and not fully apprised of events in the thread, and so I briefly posted to reaffirm my support for L being unhelpful, and left it at that. I also obviously did not anticipate the day lasting forever. When I finally got back in touch with the thread, there was no point in changing my vote, RoL was going to die, and so I didn’t really bother with that, I let my L vote sit because it didn’t matter. Then came the intervention of the Japanese anti-nuke, and one post leapt out at me: On March 26 2010 09:15 ~OpZ~ wrote: Who anti-nuked for Caller? That person should step forward, and RoL should definitely eat Caller's brains....Mafia saving caller? Not in my mafia world?!?! To which I thought: On March 26 2010 09:43 tree.hugger wrote: And immediately get killed by the mafia? Yeah right. Japan is a country that should certainly have more tricks up their sleeve, having this person out themselves will not happen if they're mafia, and should not happen if they're town aligned and want to stay living. Then of course, L, knowing that he was a medic, attempted to establish a reason for Japan revealing himself. I don’t need to rehash all of this argument (check the attached archives), it should be pretty clear that L was right knowing what he knew, but knowing what I knew, I was also correct to a degree. That said, from my point of view, L looked very suspicious to me. Here was someone doggedly pursuing an anti-town position, and attempting to bully the town into accepting it. Despite what L and others have alleged, I actually spent a decent amount of time debating whether or not I should launch a nuke at L. I ran through several possibilities in my head, and concluded that the payoff was too great to pass up, compared with the cost. As I mapped out earlier, I was certain that, should L be mafia, he would be saved, thereby wasting an anti-nuke, and attaching the FoS firmly on L. If L were town aligned, I figured that if he died, there’d be a plethora of reactions from people to analyze, and I’d also have eliminated someone who (I’ve never denied) was annoying the hell out of me. If L was saved by a townie, I argued strenuously that the townie should NOT announce their intentions, and do so at the last minute, only afterwards claiming responsibility. My idea with this was to guard against the possibility of L being mafia and saved by a townie, while allowing for the save to occur if L was actually town-aligned. Of course, this entire plan went to pieces when BM role-claimed anti-nukes after which there really wasn’t any choice for him except to save L outright. On March 27 2010 05:35 tree.hugger wrote: But even more so, Bill, what the hell were you thinking with that? You've made a huge mistake to claim your possession of anti-nukes, BM. There was nothing suggesting you would be killed in the night, until now. Which means that if you aren't killed tonight, I'll be damn suspicious of you. And at that, to be honest, I really don't see an out for you. You've essentially requested to be killed in the night, and the choice is whether or not you feel like using your powers. I believe that we let the nuke fall on L, and see what color he is, and whether or not anyone stages an intervention on his behalf. But in claiming to posses anti-nukes, you've essentially destroyed the possibility of the town using them later in the game for our own benefits. That's like roleclaiming to be the last medic in the game. That's the most unproductive thing ANYONE has done this game. Goddammit. After that, I was frustrated with how things had ended up, although I understood that people couldn’t be expected to be on my same wavelength, and in fact, it was probably beneficial to have some people defending ordinary townies from nukes. Also, the question of L’s allegiance had been answered for me, I had come to the conclusion that he was NOT mafia-aligned, which is why I insisted that I would not nuke him, or anyone else again. On March 27 2010 12:17 tree.hugger wrote: Also to address L's point, I'd don't see myself nuking anyone else in the near future. From the moment I decided to launch my nuke, I was also comfortable with the knowledge that I’d have to defend myself from a lynch the next day. Even as the nuke was coming down on L, I was decently confident that I would be able to avoid being lynched on Day 2. Even townies need PR campaigns, and after nuking L I had made every effort to not give ground, while actively contributing to the town, and being as fair as I could in my analysis. My bet was that after the night kill, and the reminder that the mafia is the true target, the appetite for enforcing town rules would evaporate. One of the reasons I argued with L so persistently about not doling out town-justice was because I never really gave it much stock in the first place, enforcing the law is one thing, but when you’re fighting a war, it takes a backseat. To strengthen my hand and one-up L, I pledged to vote for myself if there was the will to lynch me. I had every intention of following through with this, should that actually occur, but at the same time I was also betting I could avoid the noose. Then, of course, shit hit the fan, and things got ugly between L, Versatile and BM. I was convinced that L was innocent, and I never really entertained the idea that BM would be mafia either. I’ve actually been pretty removed from the whole process since then, despite my participation in the thread, I really played no part in the action until ~OpZ~ discovered that his penis was larger than his brain, and fired the nuke at me. I really have nothing much to say about that. When I listed ~OpZ~, Abenson, and Versatile as mafia, I wasn’t entirely serious, just aiming to get a reaction out of them. I was not expecting a nuke fired at me, with significantly less provocation than anyone else except, perhaps XeliN’s nuke of LMNOP. I don’t think ~OpZ~ is particularly suspicious looking just based on recent activity, his nuke seems more like a rather routine schoolboy desire to be included than the calculated work of the mafia. I doubt I’m a high priority for a mafia kill, unless I’ve been inadvertently getting everything right so far, which is highly unlikely. I don’t think XeliN, Versatile or ~OpZ~ deserve to be lynched based on their nuking behavior. The better question is whether or not they’re mafia. In conclusion: + Show Spoiler + This is amazing. *** So who are the mafia? Things I learned from being mafia last game: - Mafia are rarely as coordinated as the town might think. - The inactive people are more likely mafia than the active ones. From page #19, I think this is probably the most instructive voting list in the game. This was right before anything really happened, from masons to nukes, and is probably a pretty fair distribution of voting. I’m not unique in thinking this, enough people have pulled out the ‘L list’ as evidence for someone or another. + Show Spoiler + On March 25 2010 03:36 Ace wrote: With 22 alive, it is 12 to lynch. L(7) tree.hugger Versatile Abenson Fishball RebirthofLegend ~Opz~ d3_crescentia ~Opz~(4) Xelin Nikon Elemenope iNfuNdiBuLuM Abenson(7) Iaaan Zona haster27 johnnyspazz JeeJee meeple Amber[LighT] Bill Murray(2) Caller NemY Non Voting L Bill Murray Day ends at 12 AM ET at the current time That said, I think the L-list is only one part of this voting spread. There are probably mafia voting for each candidate. I assume there’s 4-5 mafia in this game. Here’s the list again, with people’s roles filled in: + Show Spoiler + On March 25 2010 03:36 Ace wrote: [i]With 22 alive, it is 12 to lynch. L(7) Versatile Abenson Fishball ~Opz~ d3_crescentia ~Opz~(4) Xelin Nikon Elemenope iNfuNdiBuLuM Abenson(7) Iaaan Zona haster27 JeeJee meeple Amber[LighT] Bill Murray(2) Caller NemY Non Voting Fill in yourself if you’re town aligned. If you’re mafia aligned, you really don’t need to be reading this. Now let’s take a look at the smallest list; Bill Murray. On March 24 2010 21:06 Caller wrote: I change my ##vote to Bill Murray because I don't trust him with a nuclear arsenal On March 25 2010 02:46 nemY wrote: I vote ##Vote Bill Murray for the same reason Caller does :/ Awful reasons for voting for a lynch. No thought behind it, which suggests that neither player is particularly interested in the fate of the town. While Caller’s vote seems to be an attempt to make a joke, coming just a few posts after BM’s introduction to the game, nemY’s vote makes absolutely no sense, and seems much more like a vote to start a bandwagon. Caller never removes his vote from BM due to inactivity, while nemY does… dead last. On March 26 2010 05:35 nemY wrote: In light of certain circumstances I'm changing my vote to ##RebirthOfLegend Regardless of whether he's town or not we set about some ground rules and he openly breaks them. I don't really think we should analyze and discuss this on a case-by-case basis because he FUCKED UP and needs to pay for it. I do get it... really I do, he's likely to be a townie, but nonetheless there needs to be consequences for people who play gung-ho or else this game's gonna go downhill fast. Which I would think is a pretty generic useless post, although there’s nothing in there that really screams mafia or not. NemY’s been playing that way throughout, posting just enough to be counted active, without really contributing or drawing attention. Let’s look at the other really interesting list in the bunch: L’s. This has been mentioned a ton of times, but my death should clear more things up. First of all, I don’t believe that early game the mafia would be coordinated enough to campaign against one person or another, and as I’ve said, L can be a mixed blessing for the town. Everyone’s said that there are probably mafia on the L list, but then again, I think there are probably mafia on every list, so that’s no big news. L(7) Versatile Abenson Fishball ~Opz~ d3_crescentia RoL flipped green, and I soon to do the same. That leaves five people remaining. We can divide these into two groups: the Masons, and the Non-Masons. Here’s one: Masons: ~OpZ~ Abenson Now the important question is; do we believe in the ~OpZ~ and Abenson’s story? Here’s the post in question: On March 25 2010 06:15 ~OpZ~ wrote: ## I Change my vote to JohnnySpazz Abenson should be confirmed soon enough. I'll RC, or he will in a minute. I figured I would die earlier, so I simple breadcrumbed his name into a post for him to reveal on my death. I will not vote for a confirmed townie over someone unconfirmed. Consider I'll likely be another lynch candidate tomorrow, I might as well save you all some trouble. The post his name is in is on page sixteen. Whether you all want to take this as confirming him, whatever. I gave him strict instructions to only post this on my death to save himself from a town lynch. He seems to be afk a lot, and I will not support his lynch. On March 25 2010 12:00 Abenson wrote: I'm sorry, I have had quite a busy week... First of all, I would like to thank ~OpZ~ for saving me back there, when I was on the chopping block. I really appreciate it but I was unable to give my thanks to you right away. I also apologize in advance of my complete uselessness in terms of aiding the town. Here is my attempt at redemption: Note: I hereby confirm that I am indeed in a mason with ~OpZ~ I would like to point out johnnyspazz He's been active in terms of defending L early on in the game, when we were bickering whether or not to kill him day 1 Also, he seems to be quite intent on pushing for a lynch of random people, jumping from one person to the next This is after ~OpZ~ saved my ass and managed to convince many that I am town. It should also be noted that he voted for me, L, RoL, nemy off the top of my head. JSpazz's post count has been near the middle. He may be active, but he hasn't posted anything that I would count as extremely helpful. The only thing he has posted is his opinion on the matter and nothing analytic. Conclusion: Like ~OpZ~, I am hereby suggesting JSpazz as a lynch victim. P.S. I know that many of you don't have a good impression of me, but I believe that by now, thanks to ~OpZ~, you believe I am at least pro-town. Therefore I would like to request that you do not waste lynches on me and I will attempt to improve as a mafia player on overall. It’s neat stuff, and unlikely to have been dreamed up on the spot. Coupled with ~OpZ~’s rather punch drunk posting since he nuked me, I’m decently convinced that ~OpZ~, and by extension Abenson are town-aligned. And if they aren’t, then they probably deserve to win for that ballsy play alone. I’m slightly suspicious of two things, the fact that ~OpZ~ was the first to suggest Japan revealing themselves, and the curious way in which ~OpZ` claimed to be masons, he kind of did it subtly, not exactly a ’stop the presses’ role claim for something so urgent. Does it mean anything? Probably not. So let’s look at the second sub-list: Non-masons: Versatile Fishball d3_crescentia This seems to me like more fertile ground. I’d expect to find at least one mafia among these two, but possibly two. Versatile was the first vote for L, followed by Fishball, and then d3 On March 25 2010 01:06 d3_crescentia wrote: Lunchtiem. Don't really feel too strongly for anyone right now, though I'd rather vote L than Abenson, because L could dick over the town way harder. Abenson, well, doesn't really *do* anything so we can lynch him anytime. ##vote L This really doesn’t make sense, it doesn’t argue to strenuously in any particular direction. D3 has been another poster who has seemingly done little to contribute, and has avoided the limelight substantially. I have my suspicions here. I don’t think Versatile’s mafia either, although I’m not entirely sure about this. As we all know, Versatile kind of jumped off the deep end to get L out of the game, yet has always remained consistent in disagreeing with L, and took a hugely dangerous move in launching the nuke. Also, her list is similar to mine. On March 24 2010 05:28 Versatile wrote: and if L is banned anyway, why not kill him? i don't think we have any better targets as it is day 1 and it's hard to determine who is an illogical idiot vs. who's mafia parading around as an idiot. further, i bet if anyone else was in L's position, he'd probably be advocating for their death. it's a course of action that makes sense. ##i vote L unless another someone else does something incredibly stupid. Fishball has hardly ever contributed either, and I really can’t flag any single post of his one way or another. Finally, the two other columns merit some scrutiny. ~Opz~(4) Xelin Nikon Elemenope iNfuNdiBuLuM Abenson(7) Iaaan Zona haster27 JeeJee meeple Amber[LighT] I think we can draw two, possibly three mafia out of these two columns. My favorite candidates among them are meeple and Nikon, because both have a habit of checking in occasionally and making extraordinarily useless posts. Consider: On March 28 2010 00:27 meeple wrote: Jesus on the crapper... So didn't johnnyspazz claim to have anti-nuke power, and yet he didn't save himself or anyone else? Am I missing something here? Nuking each other to bits isn't getting us anywhere and in fact,its totally ripping apart the town. Amber and d3 catch my attention only in that they're kinda staying out of the fray of this whole mess... Saving L all depends on how many anti-nukes we have. I'm certain that there are way more anti-nukes than nukes in this game so its critical we save a couple. This is only the first day. If you have a good stockpile, then go ahead... well actually I'll probably support it in any case but it might just hinder us a bit later on. A post which makes a lot of sense if meeple is mafia. I think d3 is suspicious as well, meeple addresses ~OpZ~’s claim, and dilutes it by adding another name, and then spending only one sentence on it. Followed by this: On March 28 2010 01:53 meeple wrote: Was tree.hugger really high on the lynch list? I know he nuked without town consensus but technically the nuke got shot down. As for lynching Versatile... well it's pretty obvious she's being fairly anti-town and just doing whatever the hell she wants to do... so I'd agree with lynching but I still have the same twinges of regret since we're not really any closer to bagging us some mafia. Which also doesn’t help, and has some token words about catching mafia thrown in. Meeple’s been good about staying out of the picture and swooping in to defend when necessary. On March 29 2010 20:23 Nikon wrote: Wow, the day might end soon! Translation: Finally I get to kill someone! Just so we're clear: First I get this: And then there's You're directly disagreeing with yourself. Based on this and how you've omitted various pieces of information in your nice big posts, I'd say that you're red. The question is... what should I do with you. Translation: Night kill? Hmmm…. So this also makes no sense, comes at a terrible time and throws out a random accusation that Nikon clearly does not expect to be taken seriously. I’m suspicious. *** So in conclusion, here’s a list of people who look suspicious, simply based on their day 1 activity and their initial lynch votes. ~OpZ~, when you say this isn’t a typical Day 1 situation, you’re right, and you’re wrong. Obviously we’ve gotten a ton of posts in ‘one day’ but we’ve also only had one town vote, and town votes are very important to try and see which patterns keep cropping up. I’ve taken the first town vote, and tried to apply it to normal mafia behavior. I suspect that at least one of the more active posters on the thread is also mafia, although I have less theories as to who that might be. LMNOP strikes me as being the perfect combination of activity, while not having an alibi (~OpZ~) and not quite being as helpful as Zona. But LMNOP has been very pro-town. One point that I can’t remember atm; did Sweden ever come forward and take responsibility for shooting down LMNOP’s nuke? *** Here’s what I think should be done: Lynch Nikon. He’s on quite a few lists, and was an early voter for ~OpZ~. If Nikon flips mafia, we can assume with a higher degree of certainty that ~OpZ~ is just stupid, and not mafia. Abenson is also shown to be town-aligned by this. If Nikon flips green, it doesn’t mean that I’m totally wrong, but it also might mean that I’m totally wrong. Take everything I’ve written here with a grain of salt, I’m not often right. Good luck town. My list: NemY D3 Meeple Nikon And a few others for good measure: LMNOP Amber INfuNdiBuLuM | ||
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 30 2010 03:31 flamewheel91 wrote: I'm not haunting ^_^ I wasn't killed by a nook! + Show Spoiler + Sleep tight town, I've got you. | ||
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Settle down everyone... On April 10 2010 00:53 Ace wrote: hey guys I'm probably gonna be partying for ohhh the next 72 hours with like 15 women so umm...if I'm not here the game is on pause. Flamewheel? Qatol? L? anyone wanna mod for me once I disappear later tonight? ^_^ Imagine... there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... Oooh oooh oooooh... | ||
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
- Haster's role was pretty awkward, but I have to give him a ton of credit, he tried quite hard. When Ace pm'd me the role list though, I had to laugh. I would not have enjoyed figuring out a strategy for that. - JeeJee played amazing. Absolutely amazing. Relevant posts to Ace: Original Message: I was decently correct, but mostly off. Gotta love JeeJee though, his posting was amazing. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: JeeJee is one cool customer. I want him on my team, always. I suspected LMNOP at the end, and I pointed out the obvious on d3. Caller looked like mafia of course, but I wrongly suggested he was innocent in my dying post. I never once suspected JeeJee. | ||
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