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On May 07 2010 07:01 Korynne wrote:citi.zenThinks Zona is town, and less sure but thinks Qatol is town too. Thinks Foolishness and Korynne are shifty. In defence of what citi.zen says about: Show nested quote +He is clearly thinking about the roles a lot, yet makes repeated mistakes in his proposed "pro-town" plans. This could be a new player thing, or someone who is trying to seem active but not paying enough attention to "the other side's view". If you read my last two games I always try to think about the other side. I think I got carried away with like omg qatol has an awesome plan let's add to it. This game clearly has more "vets" (Qatol seems like one of them) than the other games I've played so purposely slipping up here seems like a bad idea on my part. Stuff about BM's invention and town circles etc etc Proposes an alignment and not role detective kit. Replies to Radfield asking him if he will lynch sidesprang with yes, information is better than no information. Proposes saving the dayvig kill. Apparently [continues] "to like Korynne as a red" xD 4 vanilla claimants and one must be lying if JeeJee is telling the truth (sidesprang ended up being the guy lying here) Still voting for hitting Korynne... xD Again, no dayvig plz. Points out johnnyspazz missed him in the voted for sidesprang count. Buncha stuff about invention stuffs... Argues with Qatol about invention stuffs... Likes JeeJee's play. Basically back and forth with Qatol, accusing Korynne in between. xD Conclusion: Likes to accuse me a lot, but I can see how I've been playing not so well this game. xD Doesn't seem to give /too/ much information on why I should be lynched, just slightly prefered and FoS on me and Foolishness from the start. Verdict: Slightly suspicious. I don't like the focus on inventions and quibbling with Qatol, seems like fake activity almost. Also Darth that is poor reasoning. Show nested quote +I don't know his style. But his defense of sidesprang has just made me suspicious. I think it's definitely worth considering, and I think he might be mafia - that or, based on his animosity toward Korynne, Korynne is mafia. What does everyone think? Animosity towards another player when you are town does not indicate whether someone is mafia. I agree I've played rather poorly this game in terms of being lazy and not thinking enough about the plan but that doesn't make me mafia if citi.zen is town. Likewise if you lynch me and I'm town, that doesn't automatically make citi.zen mafia. If one of us flips red, you can consider the other more green/be suspicious by reverse psychology since mafia would know whether the other person was green. But two people pointing fingers at each other doesn't really mean much if the first one killed ends up green.
Well, I think if he's mafia, then it clears you as town, and vice versa - mafia wouldn't continually point each other out so unnecessarily imo. So I'm thinking the other way around with what you're thinking.
On May 07 2010 08:35 Korynne wrote: Darth's only "significant" post (slightly long and looks like it wasn't written in 5 minutes) seem to be the one for reasoning to kill johnnyspazz, except one way before on some plan on verifying alignment cop's sanity. Didn't vote for sidesprang or make any mention of it. Prefered killing spazz to JeeJee.
Seems reasonably scummy to vote for.
Excuse me? I just spent my entire afternoon today while not in class writing up a post that's on one of the last couple pages. Almost NONE of my posts are "written in 5 minutes." Maybe it's because I spend more time reading than posting, but at least represent me fairly if you're going to call out my posting quality.
I didn't vote for sidesprang because I wasn't around to do it. I think I've said this before; I wasn't there when everyone except for Qatol and Radfield started voting for sidesprang, and didn't know I wouldn't make it back in time to vote. There was discussion of going for someone else and CV'ing sidesprang instead, so I held back my vote for later - which I missed obviously, unplanned. I'm sorry if TL Mafia isn't my #1 priority in life. But I've said this like 3 times at least now, please read through my posts before you bring up things I already addressed, or point the things out that don't make sense in my follow-ups.
I preferred johnnyspazz over JeeJee because neither was really "clear scum" but we had to go for something. My reasoning to end up with johnnyspazz is in the post that you already mentioned.
Explain to me why I'm scummy again? Radfield, this goes out to you too. The only reason I've seen you give to lynch me is that my "posting is generally scummy" - I think your town, but I disagree with this - could you be more specific with that comment?
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On May 07 2010 09:01 Korynne wrote: Right, it's okay if mafia isn't everyone else's priority in life but I'm the one being the suspect for it. >_>
Most of your posts are like 5min posts, I even went through them again afterwards to make sure. They're mostly like 1-5 lines long and are like conversational rather than analysis. I'm taking my information from zbot so it's not updated with your entire afternoon writing stuff, but I mean given that everyone is accusing you today it would be rather silly to sit back and read and not post long defenses. Though my bad on the explanation on not voting sidesprang, it was in the johnnyspazz long pots so I skimmed and didn't catch it.
Hmm. really? I just looked at all my posts, and most of them are either fairly long, or multiple posts near each other. If you look at your own posting, it's about the same, maybe slightly more than my posting. And though a couple things are "conversational," it's hardly the majority of my posts. In fact, I think I put in quite a few good bits on analysis here and there: draft, Opz, johnnyspazz, analysis about several different roles, a bit on CV and inventions as well.
What are you suspect for? It was like one comment by Qatol or Radfield, there are plenty other things that you're under suspicion for; no one's really using that as the focus of their reason to accuse you.
And I posted long posts before I started getting called out - it's a matter of whether or not I had something to say. I didn't realize that I was supposed to write a daily essay for you guys. I have school making do that already, thanks.
Basically: anything you're accusing me of, Korynne, you're basically guilty of as well. So maybe Radfield or Qatol can call me out for it, but you, don't try to use it against me.
And, since I probably won't be here tonight: ##Vote Korynne
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On May 07 2010 09:50 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +Does foolishness always have this kind of attitude? (it doesn't sit well with me, not saying it's scummy. feels like ace, caller, bm, etc.) I agree, the cast majority of Foolishness' posts come across with a very aggressive tone. That's more metagame than anything pertinent though. @Darth Darth, let me be clear, I don't have a solid case against you like I did against Sidesprang. Here is why you strike me as scummy. If you're town you'll hopefully understand my reasoning, if you're mafia you'll know where you went wrong. Some of these points are stronger than others, none of them make any kind of case against you on their own. You missed the first vote, so did many people, but either way this is not a good sign. You contributed a lot early on when we weren't discussing mafia at all, and then your activity level plummeted once we got around to lynching and CVing. You point out a lot of obvious stuff in your early posts. You also do a lot of agreeing without a lot of adding your own suggestions. Lots of 'so what do we do next team', 'lets get a plan' You call out amnesia and Jspazz as scummy, both flip town.(again, none of these on their own are indicative of mafia on their own) You did NOT vote for Sidesprang. you're "inclined to think Scamp is town". And then THREE minutes later you waffle on it after a nothing comment by JSpazz Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 11:53 DarthThienAn wrote: But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town.
On May 06 2010 11:53 johnnyspazz wrote: see, that's what scamp wants you to think so he can skate by
On May 06 2010 11:50 DarthThienAn wrote: O_o. That simple sentence makes me really confused about Scamp T_T... You're more recent posts are not in the Zbot and I don't feel like searching for more. These in a nutshell are why I think you're scum. Because you've talked so much, we would gain a lot of info from you flipping red. Also, the more I look through you're posts the scummier you look...
I missed the first vote because time went fast and I was busy casting for CSL and forgot =[. It happens I guess.
I'll admit that my activity level plummeted quite a bit. Part of the reason is that the weekend ended, so I spent less time on mafia than on the weekend obviously. Once we got down to concrete analysis, I had less to say, and only posted when I DID have something to say. Theorycrafting is easy for me, especially with numbers >_>. Analyzing posting behavior is hard, since I don't know any of you.
I didn't realize that I pointed out obvious stuff and didn't contribute much =[. Guess I'll have to work on that.
I called Amnesia out for being scummy on the fact that he was completely inactive and getting away with it. I called it scummy not necessarily because I thought he was mafia, but because I didn't want people to let him get away if he WAS mafia. I felt that my accusation on jspazz was merited - I mean, Qatol basically said: "let's pick between jspazz and JeeJee" and no one picked between them, so I did.
sidesprang, I've been through several times. I think even those who voted for him could be suspicious. Whether or not you vote on a mafia is not an indication on your alignment, unless you are the one who starts it. Even the second or third person could be mafia.
Again, my position on Scamp is really shaky. There's a fine line between mafia and TOO mafia. I was hoping that someone would analyze what I had said / agree with it, but jspazz throws out a nothing comment that accents my concerns instead - multiple reverse psychologies is possible, after all.
Anyway, lynching me, town'll lose something. But I'll try to help out before my corpse offers you guys information. Any suggestions before I go?
If you can't figure out what that means, please don't post, your thoughts aren't worth listening to at this point.
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On May 07 2010 10:41 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 10:02 citi.zen wrote: Don't have a tone of time, but I think Radfield is right actually.
##vote DarthThienAn##
Qatol, thanks. You are making me feel better about arguing against you. I never wanted an invention that would keep the SK safe. I wanted something better than the DT kit. I liked JeeJee's proposal of a gun that would not kill townies. You know this. Keep it up though. Then why didn't you advocate making one even once? Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 08:10 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 07:50 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. Grenade is a horrible idea. We do not want anything that can kill townies. We do not want anything bomb-related because of the cell phone. The gun I can accept. Not if the name says it, right? Anyway, it should flat out kill, regardless of vet/protection status, and only kill reds. Can we agree this is better than a kit? (I assume rd=red here) Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 08:53 citi.zen wrote: Just invent the rd-only killing machine man. It's a kit + gun in one and cannot easily hurt the town. Could confuse us at most if given to a red, but I like the odds. Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 12:08 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 08:22 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 08:10 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 07:50 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. Grenade is a horrible idea. We do not want anything that can kill townies. We do not want anything bomb-related because of the cell phone. The gun I can accept. Not if the name says it, right? Anyway, it should flat out kill, regardless of vet/protection status, and only kill reds. Can we agree this is better than a kit? Sorry, I totally misinterpreted. A weapon that can kill SK or mafia is fine by me. I'm okay with Bill wanting to make it detonate if that player attacks him as well. But I don't see why it can't be a gun with bulletproof piercing rounds. I guess I'm just arguing semantics though. You entire stance on this issue is extremely shaky. First you don't want a gun. Then you are OK with it, but would simply make it bullet-piercing (even though that still allows a medic-protected red to live, presumably). Then you are "ok" with the gun detonating if the attacker hits Bill - yet the whole freaking point of the gun is that it CAN ONLY KILL REDS - so if Bill is town making the gun he should have no need for it to detonate, since IT CAN'T KILL BILL ANYWAY. This is very shaky reasoning about a very simple matter, totally out of character for you Qatol. Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 12:55 citi.zen wrote: Right: Ace, would we be allowed to invent a "device_that_only_kills_when_pointed_at_reds"? Is this game breaking or not? Anyways, I'll leave this alone until the lynch. We have other priorities. Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 10:05 Radfield wrote:On May 07 2010 10:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:On May 07 2010 08:22 Radfield wrote: The thing with Foolishness is, it doesn't really matter if he's town or mafia aligned. At some point his CV hits will become a dangerous detriment to the town and we'll have to lynch him just to stay alive. We also have to lynch him before it becomes possible for him and the mafia to make a double hit and gain a huge advantage.
Other than that we keep him alive for the extra kills until we're down to one mafia, then we lynch him. There's just no reason to have a CV with only one mafia around. or let him be mod killed for not killing...(Is that a bannable mod kill?!) We could just use that to our benefit....Ya dig? That's actually not a bad idea, although it really depends on the situation. There may be a time when we simply can't risk him being mafia and getting off a double kill. Umm Strategic modkill = nono unless Ace is moderating this WAY differently from every other host (which I highly doubt). Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 10:38 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 07 2010 09:50 Radfield wrote:Does foolishness always have this kind of attitude? (it doesn't sit well with me, not saying it's scummy. feels like ace, caller, bm, etc.) I agree, the cast majority of Foolishness' posts come across with a very aggressive tone. That's more metagame than anything pertinent though. @Darth Darth, let me be clear, I don't have a solid case against you like I did against Sidesprang. Here is why you strike me as scummy. If you're town you'll hopefully understand my reasoning, if you're mafia you'll know where you went wrong. Some of these points are stronger than others, none of them make any kind of case against you on their own. You missed the first vote, so did many people, but either way this is not a good sign. You contributed a lot early on when we weren't discussing mafia at all, and then your activity level plummeted once we got around to lynching and CVing. You point out a lot of obvious stuff in your early posts. You also do a lot of agreeing without a lot of adding your own suggestions. Lots of 'so what do we do next team', 'lets get a plan' You call out amnesia and Jspazz as scummy, both flip town.(again, none of these on their own are indicative of mafia on their own) You did NOT vote for Sidesprang. you're "inclined to think Scamp is town". And then THREE minutes later you waffle on it after a nothing comment by JSpazz On May 06 2010 11:53 DarthThienAn wrote: But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town.
On May 06 2010 11:53 johnnyspazz wrote: see, that's what scamp wants you to think so he can skate by
On May 06 2010 11:50 DarthThienAn wrote: O_o. That simple sentence makes me really confused about Scamp T_T... You're more recent posts are not in the Zbot and I don't feel like searching for more. These in a nutshell are why I think you're scum. Because you've talked so much, we would gain a lot of info from you flipping red. Also, the more I look through you're posts the scummier you look... I missed the first vote because time went fast and I was busy casting for CSL and forgot =[. It happens I guess. I'll admit that my activity level plummeted quite a bit. Part of the reason is that the weekend ended, so I spent less time on mafia than on the weekend obviously. Once we got down to concrete analysis, I had less to say, and only posted when I DID have something to say. Theorycrafting is easy for me, especially with numbers >_>. Analyzing posting behavior is hard, since I don't know any of you. I didn't realize that I pointed out obvious stuff and didn't contribute much =[. Guess I'll have to work on that. I called Amnesia out for being scummy on the fact that he was completely inactive and getting away with it. I called it scummy not necessarily because I thought he was mafia, but because I didn't want people to let him get away if he WAS mafia. I felt that my accusation on jspazz was merited - I mean, Qatol basically said: "let's pick between jspazz and JeeJee" and no one picked between them, so I did. sidesprang, I've been through several times. I think even those who voted for him could be suspicious. Whether or not you vote on a mafia is not an indication on your alignment, unless you are the one who starts it. Even the second or third person could be mafia. Again, my position on Scamp is really shaky. There's a fine line between mafia and TOO mafia. I was hoping that someone would analyze what I had said / agree with it, but jspazz throws out a nothing comment that accents my concerns instead - multiple reverse psychologies is possible, after all. Anyway, lynching me, town'll lose something. But I'll try to help out before my corpse offers you guys information. Any suggestions before I go? If you can't figure out what that means, please don't post, your thoughts aren't worth listening to at this point. Yes, please give us your honest impressions of as many people as you can before you die. I will make sure they are discussed after you die. Opz I know you had a longer post, but I wanted to take care of the quick stuff right now.
Look closer and gimme a name.
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Don't let me die for nothing -__-
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i before e except after c. @a lot of you. >_>
~~gg, gl.
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ah so close...
I'm surprised Foolishness did as well as he did. I blame our failure on Zona going MIA >>.
imo all the mafia going [x][1] didn't really matter did it? I mean, the first number mattered to us; the second number hardly mattered at all.
gg, nj Foolishness. I'll admit, my shot on Radfield was anti-town, not hunting for SK. But it gave Foolishness a CHANCE to win at least, since there was no one anyone would lynch Radfield.
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On May 11 2010 12:31 Ace wrote: Well look at it like this:
Read over the Game on Day 1 and 2. Qatol was ASSIGNING roles - that's like blatant anti-town activity. You guys know nothing of his alignment, and then you willingly followed it? Nevermind that it's possible 3 people are going to be picking ahead of you. Scum also had the chance to say they know nothing of you or Qatol's alignment and you're buddying up to put a powerful role in someone's hands. Even if Qatol is scum and you were Mafia he'd have the perfect chance to call shots on who the CV hits as long as it isn't a scumbuddy. So many ways to just cause a big ruckus on Day 1 but Scum didn't pick up on it.
Then it happened AGAIN with the CC situation. Sidesprang didn't even claim which sucked for scum but oh well. There were like 5 people before SS on the list, all claimed Vanilla. That means they all are telling the truth and ALL of them missed investigation roles or they are lying. Either way both of these scenarios don't mean SS = scum. Even if they are true SS can just say he didn't trust Qatol with the role and took it. Doesn't mean he is scum.
Basically instead of trying to punish the town for tying picking order and role picks to alignment, the scum just sat back and let it ride. Town has no information roles and are making logical correct arguments that have tons of loopholes. If Zona would have pardoned SS(he didn't because SS didn't show up) or Darth then he also had a great argument to back him up. Likewise Foolishness could have told the town to shove it, and he'd kill whoever he wanted to after it was obvious he was CV. Town kept outting their own power roles (why?) so then he could have slammed you even further for trying to force him to RC when he didn't have to.
So many ways to destroy the town but they seemed to be thinking like Scum and not thinking like Town.
Well the whole CC situation was a mess since SS hardly showed. We suggested that he call out people that were before him as potential copycats, which he did, but way too late =[.
Zona not showing up really messed things up too. Even while he was alive, mafia had a good chance of winning, since town would not only have to figure out Foolishness/Zona were mafia, get past the pardon, and still be alive.
=[. I learned a lot this game though so I'm happy =p.
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On May 11 2010 12:31 L wrote: Enraging that I woulda had the inventor but got banned.
I was going to make some pretty hilarious shit.
?
Bill was #1 though =p. You woulda been vanilla if you went for it.
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On May 11 2010 12:39 Ace wrote: Yea I acknowledged Zona going afk screwed you over. Both scum lynches were literally down to "we have to do this because this # theory holds up" not necessarily because you did anything blatantly scummy.
Ah well, I'll run this setup again albeit with a few different roles.
Yeah, me dying because the numbers were convenient was pretty lame too >>.
On May 11 2010 12:45 Ace wrote: Yea Foolishness I have a question...why didn't you vote for citizen? Soon as he voted for you and Korynne DIDN'T vote but posted you should have tried to sympathize. She said "this obviously makes me innocent because I could hammer and end the game now". If you took that point seriously and voted on citizen you might have had a shot.
The way I would've seen that (if I was in Korynne's spot), him changing to go after citi.zen would confirm him as mafia, since he was so willing to switch targets (he had been against Korynne pretty heavily in the last few turns). Switching suddenly definitely would have been more suspicious. But yea, I think his killing Falcynn (you mentioned this earlier) was because that was the town CV vote kill, right? Although, I suppose he could have defended his going against that pick and such.
Yeah, like I thought, a lot of the roles got missed. As soon as I got Day Vig, I suspected that people hadn't really gotten any roles. but whatttever.
Definitely would be up for a rerun of this setup, with more active players >>. Even though I seemed inactive for a bit, I was just lurking kekeke.
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On May 11 2010 16:15 Scamp wrote: I think next time it'd be a good idea to PM people and say "Hey, this is a notice that the game has started and you have one day to draft a role." I'm so used to signing up and then ignoring the thread until I get my role PM. Good thing I checked the thread an hour before the deadline, although all I protected this game was a Serial Killer. Made the mafia use a daykill on an SK, though. So silver lining.
I really don't see how town was lucky the mafia killed Rad. He was clearly the person the town was looking toward for leadership at the time. That's generally why neutral parties don't go all-out on the scumhunting. On the other hand, you can't just play like a typical SK and not expect to be looked into for it.
Yay town win!
He would've killed them all and won. lol, I think SK is a separate win party?
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On May 11 2010 17:35 Scamp wrote: I like to think that not reading the thread is still a valid excuse. I was probably being ultra-lazy but I didn't think to read the thread after receiving my first PM. I really expected to be PM-ed with the draft order when it happened. I suppose I never should have gotten that idea in the first place, but I don't think the OP ever had any information on when the draft would start either.
To me the signup phase is where I care the least. It's just a bunch of people signing up or making random comments. I might check the OP to see changes or who's signed up so far, but that's about as far as I'll go until I know the game has started.
There's a difference between not reading anything at all and not being sure and being lazy. Case in point: I don't think Darth read the opening post regarding the SK's win condition.
Anyway, I can see how you wouldn't want to hold people's hands and badger them with unnecessary things, but I think you should also consider that if you're using an unconventional format that it's a good idea to make sure people understand what's going on.
Uhh..I agree that the first day is usually the most random day, but it's also one of the most important for town. The first day is when town has to come up with a plan to, well, do stuff. Without a good plan, they are usually screwed.
Not reading the thread, even early game, is not a valid excuse. Seeing as how a draft number was due at midnight on the first night, wouldn't it be a safe assumption that the draft order would be posted shortly after that? Same with roles? The fact that people didn't PM Ace a role because they didn't know is really mind-boggling to me. Like he said, it's "PICK YOUR POWER" mafia. There's gotta be a time when you pick it right? It's mentioned in the PM he sent,
And I'm not a very good example to prove that people didn't read the OP or were lazy. 1) I was right o.O. The SK is a separate win party. 2) The ruling about town vs SK's win condition is very subtle. Looking through the OP again, the only way I would know about this win condition is if I read the starting town PM example which, considering I was mafia, why would I do? I assumed that it was as it is, but wasn't 100% sure. 3) It wasn't even relevant to me as a mafia player; to mafia, the SK is just another townsperson, with a super-role basically. 4) I read the SK's win condition and know that wins when he is the last man standing. I didn't read the town's win condition, which clarifies when the town wins.
And I think, before you sign up for any game, you should at least read the OP. We're not kids (which isn't to say we're all 18+...). We shouldn't need our hands held.
Bottom line, I think if you're going to play, you should at least read the thread regularly >_>.
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On May 11 2010 18:36 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 18:21 DarthThienAn wrote: Bottom line, I think if you're going to play, you should at least read the thread regularly >_>. After a line like that, you are never going to get away with lurking in these games ever again.
I already admitted I had been lurking in this past game ^^.
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I WAS STRATEGICALLY LURKING.
kekeke.
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On May 11 2010 20:24 Ace wrote: I'll host this setup after all other games are concluded. Also next time I will give Mafia 2KP. ~1 week was around the time I wanted this game to last and with 18 players + modkills on 1 KP it happened. So next time I'll give scum 2KP.
Any other comments and suggestions about this setup are welcome.
So far Qatol advocates Mad Hatters which means Meth Man has to be taken out.
Inventor is right now looking like it will be scrapped.
Don't ask for Bus Drivers because I won't put those in ^_^
Meth Man puts the fear of God into the mafia. lolol.
I think if all of the town gets roles, 2KP is good. 1KP would have been tough had most of the town gotten roles like they should have.
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