Penalty Mafia
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citi.zen
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citi.zen
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citi.zen
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On July 24 2010 00:16 Hesmyrr wrote: It's pretty simple. Let me just quickly cook something up. There may also be several well-established anti-town or weakened roles like: Beloved Princess, (Unaware) Insane/Paranoid/Naive Doctor, and Miller. In case of where the strategic penalty death via modkill occurs, I will give Mafia one additional KP per one deliberate modkill following night. That can actually be huge blow to the town. I don't expect truly unintentional penalty modkill to occur since all the penalties are fairly hard to intentionally break. Also the problem with taking vote away argument is, let's say there is Mafia who says inability to do A is his penalty and Townie saying inability to B is his penalty. So town says "hey guys, break you penalties! If mod do something bad to you we know you are being genuine" followed up by "B lost his vote but A did not! A is confirmed lying scum gogogo". Thus, punishment lesser than mod-kill can make penalty breaking a excellent way to get clears. But if B ends up being killed, and mafia get one additional KP because of it, though the town has sure lynch the next day, such tactic no longer becomes beneficial to the town. OK, so there may be a beloved princess (2 night cycles in a row if she is killed), a doctor of some sort and a miller. Ace thinks a vigi as well. Presumably a DT role? Plus some odd roles. | ||
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On August 08 2010 09:40 Ace wrote: Don't worry, I'm sure your role will be useful. I think I've got a great idea: Looking at what we know town has almost no information at all. Not even what roles are in the game or a count. All we have is that there are 3 scum in the game. I know for sure though that the town has to have a Vigilante. Based on this I need everyone to chime in because of something pretty awesome. We don't have to roleclaim, but it's in our best interests to publicly announce what our penalty is if we have one. I'll share how we'll go about this when more players start posting. I think everyone but the mafia has a penalty: all Townies (not mafia) will have specific penalties that either diminish strength of one's ability or simply anti-town. No post restriction bs though. | ||
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On August 09 2010 00:13 LSB wrote: Pyrr asked that question BM responded Thanks. If this wasn't the case I was going to suggest lynching Bm after he gives us the list to confirm it. Of course, that would have been a badly overpowered thing to put in the game... so never-mind. | ||
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On August 09 2010 05:00 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Yeah, like I said, my vote is not set in stone. I want to hear the rest of Ace's plan; he said he was waiting for town to become more active and it looks like things are finally warming up a bit. I am more suspicious of Ace than BM at this point because Ace seems to be distracting town from BM rather than taking him head on. If BM is town-aligned and making these claims to troll or to get himself killed because he doesn't want to play anymore than I really don't know why he's playing and I don't really want him around the TL Mafia forum. I have seen Bill be town and fake-claim in the team mafia game (his partner was Chez), but that was a medic claim. This is very different - I seriously doubt he's lying if he is town. I know he does respect Ace and would not want to kill him out of spite. So... either Bill is red or Ace is red to my mind. I would like to lynch BM to find out which is which, but there is a risk his role allows him to find more reds each day, vs. this being a one time thing (some sort of day detective with a speaking restriction?). Ace also claimed to have a potentially important role, and promised a plan. While we wait I'll put a placeholder vote on him: ##vote Ace | ||
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On August 09 2010 07:12 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Lol "No post restriction bs though." Why didn't you post that earlier, Ace? ##abstain Right. ##vote BillMurray | ||
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On August 09 2010 07:48 Ace wrote: If someone's penalty is they can't do anything until night 4 thats great. Because then we can remove them from any actions that happen at night, and if they still live on Night 4 we ask them to prove their action. Obviously if you can't act until Night 4 which would be ridiculous in any mafia game you've gotta have something damn near game breaking. So if the scum want to let that person until night 3 that's cool with me because before that said person better be going all out doing some intelligent scum hunting. But even all of this is moot because I did say don't make it too obvious what your role could be. On death once your role is revealed we can piece everything together. It doesn't even matter if Vanilla penalties look different than blue penalties - we just need a list of penalties period to even move forward. So what if it helps the mafia? Would you rather the town not have any direction on where to go and just stumble around mindlessly? It's like complaining that Terran's are making infantry knowing that Zerg has lurkers. Execution of the plan is just as important as the plan itself. If you don't agree come up with a better idea because I'm all ears. @divinek: now you're starting to get it ^_^ We KNOW for a fact that townies have restrictions and scum don't. They only have fake claims the host gave them. So if we are aware of our own penalties and KNOW that we have to behave a certain way then we can't do things that go against our PM where as scum can because theirs are fake. They can't fake their actions because once we see what most people's penalties look like and people start dying the picture becomes very clear. Why are we so sure penalties are not linked to roles? From what I've seen, and knowing my penalty, people with a blue role have penalties pertaining to that role (ex: can't use power Y unless X happens). Greens can't have that type of penalty. Telling everyone "I can't use my power unless X" means you are blue = pleasant sniping reds. So I'd advise you to reconsider, unless you think some sort of mass role-claim is a good play. In some set-ups that is the case, in this one I personally haven't come to that conclusion. I'll admit that, as usual, I don't pay close attention on weekends, am I missing something? | ||
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On August 09 2010 10:03 Ace wrote: no need for role claims yet, just penalties. Like I said I gave you all my penalty and if you all think it's that simple then tell me what my role is ^_^ Look at bumatlarge's penalty claim: no one would know he was a tree stump (role) based on the fact that acting increases mafia population by 1 (penalty). The idea that penalties implies roles is false based on bumatlarge's post and the fact that my penalty also does not imply my role. That's just it: he has to use his "ability" = he has an "ability". So he's some sort of blue that just got outed. | ||
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On August 09 2010 10:09 Ace wrote: [/b][/b]oh dear :/. A random person or random townie?. Check the wording very carefully. If it's a random person that's pretty terrible. If it's a random townie that sucks also but we can have possibly have a confirmed townie. Penalties: Ace : Must telegraph moves to the town before acting bumatlarge: If acting mafia population goes up by 1, town population goes down by 1 zeks: If lynched, random person(?) on the wagon gets permanent +1 voting power @bumatlarge: Does the PM tell you how the population works? Like do mafia basically get a townie recruited into their ranks or is it some other way it works? "Acting" and "action" are the key words here. Also, your penalty Anything I do must be telegraphed to the rest of the player base if it is a valid action. ... makes no sense for a vanilla townie. I don't buy that you would out yourself as a blue on day 1 of any game. | ||
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On August 09 2010 10:12 Ace wrote: Being BLUE doesn't matter. You are looking at it wrong. Everyone has a role. EVERYONE. Ignore anything about blue roles for now. We only care about PENALTIES. If bumatlarge didn't tell you he was a tree stump you would never know. zeks just told us his penalty, do you know his role? I told you my penalty, do you know my role? See where I'm going now. also *yawn* at Pyrr. I didn't out any blues but nice job at trying to spread some panic. I hope the Vigilante or whatever killing role we have shoots you asap. Are you claiming there are no vanilla townies? | ||
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On August 09 2010 10:23 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: What would an insanely broken killing role be like? Tree Stump is usually a voting role, not a killing role, usable once per game. | ||
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Ace : Must telegraph moves to the town before acting bumatlarge: If acting mafia population goes up by 1, town population goes down by 1 zeks: If lynched, random person(?) on the wagon gets permanent +1 voting power I am stuck in "regular" mafia land, but to me this translates into: Ace: weak blue bumatlarge: strong blue zeks: vanilla townie Do we want this info out there? | ||
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On August 09 2010 10:39 LSB wrote: Na, bumatlarge is just the tree stump. http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Tree_Stump The tree stump is not bad in other set-ups! Not sure how to use them here yet, but guessing the severe penalty means there is a way. | ||
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On August 09 2010 11:11 Ace wrote: Not at all chaoser. Action doesn't imply night action or day action. It can be anything. Voting is an action. Talking to a certain player is an action. Action does not imply blue! Look at page 3 of this thread. Hessmyrr points out 2 such instances: The role is Townie. The action is you can't vote for a certain player. If I only told you that you can't vote(the action) for a certain player (the penalty) you have no idea that the role is Townie. The role is Townie once again. The action is visiting a player at night. The penalty is if you're caught visiting someone by mafia you die. Looking at both penalties, how could you know whether the person is blue or green? You can't. The people coming up with this nonsense are bullshitting. Perhaps I am reading this too closely, but I don't see the word "action" in either of those descriptions. In fact, they are quite different from what you and bumatlarge described, but close to what zeks posted. At any rate what Bill did is against the rules unless he is red or knows something we don't. So I am still all for lynching him right now. | ||
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If he is not red, does not have additional information and has no restriction on speaking (as the OP says), he went for personal vendetta at the risk of screwing he town over. Usually there is a "play to win" rule. | ||
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On August 09 2010 11:35 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I'm starting to think that if there was a meticulously enforced play to win rule, Bill Murray would have been on a permanent ban list long ago. he is banned in all of ace's games. | ||
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On August 09 2010 07:07 Ace wrote: The problem here is that Pyrr made up Bill Murray's penalty for him, and BM being who he is ran with it. So far Pyrr has twice tried to undermine me without really thinking straight. Thanks to Jayme though for actually making some sense. P.S. - I don't care if I die, I don't get mad or take this game seriously. Anyway here is the full plan now that we have more people here. 1.) Knowing what I know about my own role PM, I know my role is almost surely weak. As in if I ever acted out my role the town would lose because it not only stops me from role claiming but I'm the worst person in this game to get this kind of role. The only way this role would work is if I had a hidden condition the mod didn't give me. Being that I can't know that and even if I did it would still be somewhat underpowered... 2.) The town has to have a Vigilante or some kind of night killing role. It would be damn near impossible to confirm innocents if all the town players have penalties. However here's where our only known advantage at the moment comes in: This tells us 2 things: The town roles have penalties and the scum don't. Even with a safe fake claims from the mod we know this to be true and I'll get back to this soon. Secondly we know Bill Murray is bullshitting and this makes me even more suspicious of Pyrr. Bill Murray can't have a post restriction because the op says there aren't any!. So why are people seriously pointing fingers at me for nonsense when the "proof" Bill Murray is offering is banned by the very OP of the game? Good question if I do say so myself. Back to the penalty claims. If any townies have penalties then you'll know based on your OWN role PM which penalties should make sense when we all claim them. We should all reveal our penalties in a way that doesn't make it blatantly obvious what our roles are since even Vanilla Townies have penalties. For example this is my penalty in a nutshell: Anything I do must be telegraphed to the rest of the player base if it is a valid action. If you're town-aligned and you have a similar penalty you should be able to understand what that means. If you don't as more people claim their penalties we'll start to make sense of this. The idea here is that penalties that the town have should make sense in the game because we know our roles are weakened. With this in mind once everyone penalty claims before anyone else dies then we have all 13 players information. Once someone dies and their roles is revealed we scratch their penalties out we can start making sense of what other penalties would be in the game that could possibly make it balanced. Oh before I forget so you guys don't try and kill me off of some bullshit. ## vote Pyrr Small question: how would we know what makes the game balanced without knowing, or trying to infer, all the roles in the game? | ||
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On August 08 2010 09:23 Ace wrote: Majority of mafia games are no PM ^_^ With basically no information needless to say we are in a bad position to start off. But fear not! Based on reading my role PM I can make some guesses as to what's possibly a good idea. I think my role, while not powerful is potentially good enough to almost break the game if my hunch is correct. Let me think about what other possible penalties are available. Versus this one: On August 09 2010 07:07 Ace wrote: The problem here is that Pyrr made up Bill Murray's penalty for him, and BM being who he is ran with it. So far Pyrr has twice tried to undermine me without really thinking straight. Thanks to Jayme though for actually making some sense. P.S. - I don't care if I die, I don't get mad or take this game seriously. Anyway here is the full plan now that we have more people here. 1.) Knowing what I know about my own role PM, I know my role is almost surely weak. As in if I ever acted out my role the town would lose because it not only stops me from role claiming but I'm the worst person in this game to get this kind of role. The only way this role would work is if I had a hidden condition the mod didn't give me. Being that I can't know that and even if I did it would still be somewhat underpowered... [...] I am not ready to push for a lynching of Ace, but these sort of conflicting statements are not giving me any comfort, especially in conjunction with the claim that we need to state our penalty, but not the roles, so we can "figure out how the game is balanced". You need both pieces as far as I can tell. The only thing the penalties tell me thus far is some people have "actions" and others do not - which seems to be quite valuable for the mafia while not helping the town a great deal. | ||
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On August 09 2010 23:03 LSB wrote: Guys, focus on BM I am guilty of this myself, letting my personal feelings get in the way. But we right now can't afford to start diverting votes from BM in order to start bashing Ace or Pyrr. We've determined that BM is either A) Mafia, or B) a townie that just wants to make our lives difficult. Either way, this is Anti-Town. As for Ace's plan Pyrr obviously has a blue action. Looks like this plan made blue sniping a lot easier for the scum Pyrr could also be red. | ||
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On August 09 2010 23:23 zeks wrote: agreed, lynching BM should be our first course of action - will make things easier when we decide to out Ace or Pyrr How do you reckon that? | ||
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On August 10 2010 03:13 LSB wrote: Of course. So lets see what penalty claiming has done for the town The Town knows that Pyrr is either Blue or Red. (Assuming Pyrr isn't in the mafia) The Mafia knows that Pyrr is Blue, because they have a PM of who is red. Target #1 on the hitlist So all we're doing is giving the mafia more information Lets say BM flips red. Ace would then be our next lynch. Ace was the one who figured out BM was just messing with us. After a bandwagon was formed. Ace responced by chainsaw defending BM. Very scummy Odd, but fine, it's a theory. What about Pyrr? And what if Bill doesn't flip red? | ||
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On August 10 2010 03:46 Hesmyrr wrote: Korynne replaces Pandain. Yay! Please weigh in on the "penalty plan", I need your input! | ||
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On August 10 2010 03:56 Korynne wrote: Sup boys~ Penalty claim: I can't change my mind once I choose what action to perform. So essentially I will just do whatever I can do at the last moment possible. I'd say this really isn't much of a penalty. I'm active enough that I don't think important stuff will happen between whenever I do something and the deadline of doing whatever. So far: Pyrr looks fishy, BM and Ace look pretty normal, though I can't really fathom what Ace is trying to do with penalties, or how knowing people's penalties can be used to our advantage. Oh, and not voting until very close to deadline of course. Do you think knowing the penalties helps the reds? | ||
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On August 10 2010 04:23 Korynne wrote: I think the penalties could likely help reds. If I was red I'd definitely prefer knowing them than not, especially given that Hesmyrr gave reds safe claims, and so far (including my claim) some claims seem to be reasonably safe and uncheckable. I haven't seen anything from the penalties that could help town so far. Ace may be able to be confirmed it seems, not entirely sure what his thing means. But if nothing shows up for a night or two I'd be very suspicious. Everyone else on the other hand seems to have very neutral claims. You described Ace's play as "normal: have you seen him do this sort of opaque/possibly damaging/"plan" based play often? Asking for public claims on top of it all? I'll be honest, I find it odd from him. | ||
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On August 10 2010 07:29 Ace wrote: Keep trying to scare people into penalties = blue sniping bullshit LSB. I also never said I don't want to take care of BM, I just find Pyrr far more scummy. Like I said this is very simple If your assumption is true then tell me what everyone's role is right now. None of you can because you don't know. I've asked this a good what, 7 times now? I also don't care about Pyrr's claim because I think he's scummy. If Pyrr wants to save himself he can just role claim before the lynch if shit gets that bad. Otherwise my vote stays - he's made way too many mistakes on Day 1 to be playing this bad. Also I did not chainsaw defend Bill Murray, get your terms straight if you want to be taken seriously and not looked at as scum. LSB when are you actually going to contribute anything to the town instead of trying to attack me? You were answered multiple times Ace: nobody cares WHICH blue role people have. Knowing they are blue is bad enough. | ||
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On August 09 2010 23:14 citi.zen wrote: I wonder about these apparently conflicting statements: Versus this one: I am not ready to push for a lynching of Ace, but these sort of conflicting statements are not giving me any comfort, especially in conjunction with the claim that we need to state our penalty, but not the roles, so we can "figure out how the game is balanced". You need both pieces as far as I can tell. The only thing the penalties tell me thus far is some people have "actions" and others do not - which seems to be quite valuable for the mafia while not helping the town a great deal. Still waiting on your conflicting statements to be reconciled. | ||
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On August 10 2010 07:57 Ace wrote: you dont KNOW who's blue. I've already proved it by showing the examples Hessmyrr used. READ THE THREAD. Cute. I replied, and you know it. Those examples were easy to read. | ||
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On August 10 2010 08:04 Ace wrote: If you think that's the case I'll give you a simple task: come up with an idea of your own instead of complaining. You don't have to listen to me, you can just do something yourself. ROFL. I think I'll go with "behavior analysis" over a plan that only helps the reds. Funny. | ||
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##Vote Ace | ||
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That said, Ace is red. I also think Korynne is red. Plus someone who attacked Ace day 1, Ace like to do that with one team member. | ||
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On August 10 2010 09:46 Bill Murray wrote: citi.zen did you ever answer when i asked you top 3 suspects? obstinacy is a sign of mafia On August 10 2010 09:31 citi.zen wrote: I killed Pyrr by switching my vote off BM. It was an idiotic move, I was not aware of the vote totals and had no clue the voting was ending so soon. That said, Ace is red. I also think Korynne is red. Plus someone who attacked Ace day 1, Ace like to do that with one team member. Need to look back at day 1, but you're not a bad candidate Bill. Let' not get ahead of ourselves though. Ace goes first. + Show Spoiler + Also, LOL at obstinacy comment :-) | ||
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On August 10 2010 09:35 Ace wrote: false citizen. I only did that in like 4 out of 15 or so mafia games. That doesn't mean I like to do it ^_^ Thanks for taking responsibility of the vote switch though. It almost makes you innocent in my blood stained eyes. Ah, but precedents only tell you so much, context matters. In this case you rolled out this transparently bad plan, which succeed in outing some people. Perhaps your sacrifice was worth it, the mafia has 1 KP anyway. Still, knowing it would not last very long before people outed you, I would guess you instructed someone to take a stand against the plan, as an alibi for later. First thing's first of course: we need to lynch you tomorrow and go from there. | ||
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On August 10 2010 09:15 Ace wrote: Ok just got my PM from Hessmyrr. I'm going to break the game wide open because we aren't going to sit around playing the blame game with LSB and the rest of the scrubs for 3 days. I'm also going to explain how I arrived out my stunningly awesome conclusion: The game has 10 town and 3 scum. In a typical game of Mafia this would be slightly unbalanced in favor of the scum unless the town has a Vigilante. This is why I'm extremely sure we have a Vigilante. Otherwise this game would be ridiculous. Call this assumption 1. Now based on my own role PM, I know our roles are weakened. Taking this into account let's call the 10 vs 3 setup neutral or 0:0. When everyone's penalties came out I was wondering if all of us had negative effects. So far it seems like it. For every negative effect I subtracted 1 from the town side. My penalty bumatlarge's penalty zeks penalty So now we're at -3: 0. At this point since the Mafia have no penalties the game would be highly unbalanced in their favor. There is no way that the town from a standard game got ALL weakened abilities because this would be a bastard game: The town could never win. I highly doubt this is the case. And so I came to the conclusion my role has a hidden ability: If I visit scum at night I die. This is why I said my abilities are potentially game breaking. I can tell you what I'm going to do and if it happens to be a scum aligned player, I automatically die regardless of what else happens that night. If this assumption holds true, and I'm pretty sure it can then we've got this game finished. I can just claim who I'm going to visit ahead of time and if I come back alive the person is town aligned. If I die and there's only one kill at night you'll know I got him by scum (barring a Vigilante hit). So with that said - let's get the show on the road How can you even begin to make these calculations without knowing what other blue roles there are? Not only that, but you assume based on them that you have a "hidden ability" which may or may not make sense. I see how these claims would be convenient though, now that you're to be lynched next. | ||
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On August 10 2010 12:35 Ace wrote: *yawn* How much you wanna bet I don't get lynched? Way to not answer the real question. *yawn* | ||
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On August 10 2010 12:43 bumatlarge wrote: Hey citizen, do YOU think I should use my power? You know, the one that screwes town over completely? Why would you? If we get to a point where it makes sense maybe, right now I don't see it. | ||
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He didn't make it up, he logically deduced, based on the few penalties people posted so far, and without knowledge of the blue roles included in the game. I mean... the town was at -3 versus the "baseline" - what else could be going on besides hidden abilities?? | ||
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On August 11 2010 00:59 chaoser wrote: mm, are you sure it's bs? I want him to talk about it first/how he came tot he conclusion that he has a hidden ability before I decide You mean this: On August 10 2010 09:15 Ace wrote: Ok just got my PM from Hessmyrr. I'm going to break the game wide open because we aren't going to sit around playing the blame game with LSB and the rest of the scrubs for 3 days. I'm also going to explain how I arrived out my stunningly awesome conclusion: The game has 10 town and 3 scum. In a typical game of Mafia this would be slightly unbalanced in favor of the scum unless the town has a Vigilante. This is why I'm extremely sure we have a Vigilante. Otherwise this game would be ridiculous. Call this assumption 1. Now based on my own role PM, I know our roles are weakened. Taking this into account let's call the 10 vs 3 setup neutral or 0:0. When everyone's penalties came out I was wondering if all of us had negative effects. So far it seems like it. For every negative effect I subtracted 1 from the town side. My penalty bumatlarge's penalty zeks penalty So now we're at -3: 0. At this point since the Mafia have no penalties the game would be highly unbalanced in their favor. There is no way that the town from a standard game got ALL weakened abilities because this would be a bastard game: The town could never win. I highly doubt this is the case. And so I came to the conclusion my role has a hidden ability: If I visit scum at night I die. This is why I said my abilities are potentially game breaking. I can tell you what I'm going to do and if it happens to be a scum aligned player, I automatically die regardless of what else happens that night. If this assumption holds true, and I'm pretty sure it can then we've got this game finished. I can just claim who I'm going to visit ahead of time and if I come back alive the person is town aligned. If I die and there's only one kill at night you'll know I got him by scum (barring a Vigilante hit). So with that said - let's get the show on the road This is version 2 of what he told us day one, and it's still pretty bad. | ||
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On August 10 2010 09:15 Ace wrote: Ok just got my PM from Hessmyrr. I'm going to break the game wide open because we aren't going to sit around playing the blame game with LSB and the rest of the scrubs for 3 days. I'm also going to explain how I arrived out my stunningly awesome conclusion: The game has 10 town and 3 scum. In a typical game of Mafia this would be slightly unbalanced in favor of the scum unless the town has a Vigilante. This is why I'm extremely sure we have a Vigilante. Otherwise this game would be ridiculous. Call this assumption 1. Now based on my own role PM, I know our roles are weakened. Taking this into account let's call the 10 vs 3 setup neutral or 0:0. When everyone's penalties came out I was wondering if all of us had negative effects. So far it seems like it. For every negative effect I subtracted 1 from the town side. My penalty bumatlarge's penalty zeks penalty So now we're at -3: 0. At this point since the Mafia have no penalties the game would be highly unbalanced in their favor. There is no way that the town from a standard game got ALL weakened abilities because this would be a bastard game: The town could never win. I highly doubt this is the case. And so I came to the conclusion my role has a hidden ability: If I visit scum at night I die. This is why I said my abilities are potentially game breaking. I can tell you what I'm going to do and if it happens to be a scum aligned player, I automatically die regardless of what else happens that night. If this assumption holds true, and I'm pretty sure it can then we've got this game finished. I can just claim who I'm going to visit ahead of time and if I come back alive the person is town aligned. If I die and there's only one kill at night you'll know I got him by scum (barring a Vigilante hit). So with that said - let's get the show on the road What I also don't get is this: why hasn't Ace visited someone last night? He said he'd have to telegraph us the action, but he hasn't done so. His statement above implied he can check multiple people, why skip last night? He mentioned nothing about a penalty that he has to wait until night 2. Also, his role role was "Nyctophobic Doctor" - any insight into what that means? Usually afraid of the dark, but in this context? It sucks that even after people dies we have no idea what their roles or penalties were. I have no idea why he'd be have such a role and play the way he did. | ||
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On August 11 2010 12:21 youngminii wrote: Anyone else think BM's role seems stupid and made up? It would completely fuck up the balance of the game and I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be a role like that. Also, what better way to prevent the town from lynching you? And yeeeeeeeeeeeeah I'm not claiming. The thought did cross my mind. He certainly isn't trying to help the town either. | ||
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On August 11 2010 13:50 Divinek wrote: well the enabler is a real thing in the parts of mafia land. But why on earth would you publicly admit that was your role is beyond me. Unless he's lying, which it wouldnt be the first time for bm. So he's either lying about his role, and he's town Or he's lying about his role and he's mafia either way he's lying...unless somehow ace protected him last night and ended up dying from it? But that doesnt make any sense from an enabler, or i can hardly see ace wanting to protect bm based on what happened yesterday so wtf Ace said he'd have to telegraph us the action. | ||
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On August 11 2010 23:28 Korynne wrote: Can Hesmyrr provide a list of the 4 people who were on the lynch wagon yesterday? I'm assuming since BM claimed he's pretty much getting shot tonight. So we should vote for what target he'll be vigi-ing? If he doesn't get shot we'll have a pretty confirmed townie if someone else also dies at night (presumably to mafia). I also read through the last couple posts that Ace made, doesn't seem to be anything anywhere that suggests that he claimed to us who he protected. And he even mentioned like oh hey I'm going to tell you guys who I'm going to visit because I think I'm going to die if I visit scum. Oh also, citi.zen, why do you think I'm red? xD It was your post where you thought Ace was acting "normal" and Pyrr was fishy. I've not seen Ace ask for a mass claim before with such a bad plan before and then defend it as badly as he did. Pyrr's ongoing criticism of it made sense to me, so your read of their respective positions is tough to get. Of course, it turns out that was the DT fighting wighting with the medic. It would be hilarious if BM really is the vigi who to get the medic lynched on day one. Bill's is an interesting claim. I am guessing there has to be a vigi in the game (or two?). If there is no counter-claim I say let's not lynch BM today. His penalty, if true, is interesting as well for today's vote. Also worth wondering when it starts to make sense to just claim and state our penalties publicly, now that more and more important blue roles are already dead. | ||
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On August 12 2010 00:54 Scamp wrote: I have a thought here. I'm noticing that LSB, citi.zen, and youngminii have all claimed an adjective but didn't claim their penalties. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. You are correct. I am not sure it's best to expose the rest of the blues yet. I am open to it though, at this rate we have a dead dt + medic and a public vigi claim, so it may not matter. | ||
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On August 12 2010 02:08 bumatlarge wrote: Ok took a gander at that and thought. If BM is red, I think we can justify the other 2 reds will be in the Pyrr/Ace/abstain pile. myself, divine, chaoser, citizen, scamp and jayme. Korynne and young id think would be unlikely. Mafia getting warned is a little whacko, and very abusing of hesmyrr's leniancy on them. (not that korynne could help it) Voting BM is a little gutsy for mafia especially on the first day when its so close, youd have 3 choices of ace pyrr and abstain, which were all safe bets at the time. Ive already roleclaimed, penalty claimed first. If anyone feels that I am scum, feel free to point out why. Havent read to much into divine, but as I recall he has been his slightly aggressive self, and ive never seen him play red. chaoser is inactive as balls, very likely he is red along with scamp, who has been putting more ideas out there reclusivley. Citizen very well could be red, but I would find it unlikely he would support BM doind what he did. Which is why he would try to get rid of ace if he could and play it off like we all were going to kill him anyway. Jayme would be the cohort here, takin advice from citi. So personnally think if BM then Citi/Jayme or maybe scamp instead. if hes green then im done -_- What is so "Equivocating" about your role? | ||
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On August 12 2010 10:52 Hesmyrr wrote: Should interfere and state that names of the role, in fact I fabricated I believe to be six ENTIRE role PM for fakeclaim I believe, was also given. There was reason why I said mass claim (penalty or role) was hugely detrimental (read "disaster") to town in a special rules; I took excessive measures to insure you guys could not scumhunt on the basis of claims. Couldn't interfere with disaster in making because proponent - Ace - was still alive and could have affected town's read on him. Great. So a mass claim was designed to be detrimental, the DT and medic had pretty big penalties and, if we believe BM, the vigi can only hit people from the bandwagon. WTF is going on here... is there a DT+vigi role or some overpowered crap? | ||
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On August 12 2010 10:56 youngminii wrote: In that case. ##Vote Bill Murray Lynch All Liars. I see no reason. If there is another "real" vigi they can take him out tomorrow night. | ||
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On August 12 2010 11:01 LSB wrote: Wait... BM has 2 penalties? o.o BTW, we don't have a DT any more. Good question about BM! How do you know about DTs? | ||
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On August 12 2010 11:05 LSB wrote: My role had changes when all the DTs in the town were killed Very risky claim for a mafia to make, so this brings you very close to confirmation in my eyes. | ||
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I actually think Divinek is right, youngminii hasn't even tried to offer anything this game. ##Vote youngminii | ||
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On August 12 2010 23:39 LSB wrote: youngminii is on the bandwagon right now LOL, yeah, on the BM bandwagon. Bit of a pickle, eh? | ||
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##Vote abstain | ||
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Unvote ##Vote youngminii Better to take a shot at a suspicious person than not. | ||
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On August 13 2010 10:14 bumatlarge wrote: By "not caring about logic" I meant the penalty assumptions logic. Ace said he knew he would die regardless, but i didnt register the mafia hitting ace based on his plan, because he had never outright claimed who he was hitting. If you think Ace knew, perhaps you care explain his death post: On August 11 2010 09:29 Ace wrote: oh are you fucking serious? :/ As to what Ace did that night... I have no idea. As I said before, I was expecting him to "telegraph" (whatever that means) his action. We got nothing. | ||
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On August 13 2010 13:12 Bill Murray wrote: i'm going to hit citi.zen I will not be surprised if you do. You will be quite disappointed though. | ||
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I think zeks is playing differently and if I'm alive will probably vote for him. No smoking gun though, youngminii and Ace also looked very different this game to me, so w/e. | ||
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But don't think it'll confirm Bill, he will get killed. | ||
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On August 13 2010 21:59 Korynne wrote: BM you shoud hit tonight, otherwise you are not "confirmed" and will very likely be lynched tomorrow given the amount of people suspecting you. So even if just by self-preservation, pick someone and go. I'm assuming you are not a one-shot vigi and can shoot as many times as you want? If so mafia would most likely want you dead tonight otherwise we have a confirmed vigilante... Also don't stump bum... >_> This is weak. If Bill was red claiming vigi, he would have been vigi hit tonight. Unless there is no vigi, in which case lol. | ||
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On August 14 2010 12:11 bumatlarge wrote: Hm :/ well bill you got some explaining to do. Citizen isnt dead. mafia had a 1 in 3 shot, I would have taken my chances and hit bill. They either REALLY feel lucky this game, or BM is red. ## Vote Bill Murray Maybe the vig is either jaymes, or has some whack penalty. This is a pretty obvious choice. Thanks citizen for making this a little easier for the town. Hey maybe even Korynne is red too instead of LSB, but we can speculate that later. For the 1111th time: it makes no sense for Bill to claim vig, of all things, if he was red. It's the least safe claim possible: if there is a real vigilante he dies, and allows the vigilante to confirm themselves in the process. 2x lose for the mafia, vs. any other fake claim they can come up with. The better question is "why is BM still alive?" Here I can guess: the mafia already know they can avoid getting hit by staying off the wagon, so leaving him alive can at most hurt the town if he kills another town-aligned player; they think they can get BM lynched. | ||
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youngminii (4) Divinek citi.zen Bill Murray Scamp chaoser (2) Korynne zeks Abstain/No Lynch (2) bumatlarge LSB Bill Murray (1) youngminii Not voted yet (2): chaoser, Jayme The reds are most likely three of: Korynne, LSB, bumatlarge, chaoser or jayme. Bum has an absurd claim, but let's cross him off for now. Meaning: * Korynne is red. It's not just the vote, it's repeated misstatements (Ace played "normal", Pyrr was "scummy" for saying the penalty claims were bad; BM NEEDS to kill someone to be "confirmed"). * Two of LSB, chaoser or jayme are red. I used to think Scamp could be red as well, but I now doubt it. That's my input, I will keep my vote on Korynne. The weekend is here! | ||
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* It makes little sense for a red to claim vigi, given there is a decent chance there is a vigi in the game * If BM told the truth about being a vigi with the bandwagon penalty, the mafia would stay off the wagon while encouraging him to kill someone, anyone, off that wagon. This is exactly what you, Korynne, argued for: to "confirm himself" he should kill... anyone. You stayed off the wagon, of course. * Since they know how to prevent BM from killing them, the mafia let BM live to be lynched and/or "prove himself" by killing a townie tomorrow night My 0.2c in the absence of a better story. PS: please don't just reply WIFOM, I really don't care for that empty acronym. | ||
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On August 14 2010 15:38 Scamp wrote: Citi.zen it's possible that "vigilante" was given to the mafia as a safe-claim, and therefore they would know there isn't one in the game. I'm just waiting for Bill Murray's input before doing any heavy reacting. It would make the game too imbalanced, I would think, if the reds knew what roles there are out there but the town did not. Plus, the OP states the mafia is given penalty claims, saying nothing about role claims: 3. Mafia will be provided with safe penalty claims to make early mass claim detrimental. | ||
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On August 14 2010 23:32 chaoser wrote: Why aren't we lynching BM again? He said he was vigi, claimed he hit someone, then it didn't happen. WTF? ##vote BM Where did he claim he hit someone? | ||
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On August 15 2010 01:20 Korynne wrote: Why didn't he claim he wasn't hitting someone before the night ended? Like if citi.zen and BM are mafia they can just run on the oh hey let's not waste our vigi hit guys! If BM is red he took one hell of a risk claiming vigi of all things. I mentioned this many time before. It's not impossible he's red, just highly unlikely. Without addressing this you're making unjustified claims simply for the sake of spreading confusion. How are you so sure citi.zen, scamp and divinek are not mafia? Nobody did any substantial analysis, and citi.zen sure didn't bother to do any substantial analysis and just was like oh hey, divinek and scamp look innocent, let's not used the vigi hit tonight. I actually tried to do a long post on scamp. I went through all his posts and could not convince myself he is red. So I let it go. Divinek also seemed reasonable. Am I sure? Somewhat :-) Usually vigi hit is like a double lynch, the only thing is this time it's kinda like, well, it's like a double lynch where your second hit has limited choices. So the reason we would not want to use it is because we are so totally sure that those guys are not mafia, which we're certainly not. I think you have it backwards: the reason we would want to use it is that we are sure we will hit a red. Otherwise we are just helping the mafia win faster, especially since in this set-up they know how to avoid being hit. Also BM what do you mean I'm lying low on the radar for voting? I can't switch my vote! That's why I FoS'd you. Consider those "votes." Directed at BM, so he can answer. For my $$s worth a FoS on BM is weak, as stated above. So how about this, I'll vote for majority at the end of the day. If BM feels like I'm totally scummy he can vigi my ass. And if BM is mafia as I suspect then my ass will not be vigi'd. And then of course there's the option of both me and BM are town and like, falcepalm. I see no better candidate than yourself for today's lynch. The second part of your idea is pretty good though: everyone should be on the same wagon so we can choose our course of action after we see how you flip. Also like, lots of inactivity going on while me, BM, and citi.zen bicker. With other people inserting like, a line or two in places. I never tried to bicker. I am just telling you and, more importantly, the other players, what my take is on the current situation. If they don't want to read, think about it, or offer better alternatives.... whatever :-) | ||
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That is all. | ||
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On August 14 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote: Look at this vote list: The reds are most likely three of: Korynne, LSB, bumatlarge, chaoser or jayme. Bum has an absurd claim, but let's cross him off for now. Meaning: * Korynne is red. It's not just the vote, it's repeated misstatements (Ace played "normal", Pyrr was "scummy" for saying the penalty claims were bad; BM NEEDS to kill someone to be "confirmed"). * Two of LSB, chaoser or jayme are red. I used to think Scamp could be red as well, but I now doubt it. That's my input, I will keep my vote on Korynne. The weekend is here! | ||
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Have you ever played with him? He had 6 posts this entire game. That + no better candidate at that time made him a good lynching choice. He certainly did try to help. | ||
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On August 16 2010 10:18 LSB wrote: Normally I post a lot, I'm up all throughout the day, rarely one liners. Then suddenly I go to chicago. I don't post for a while. My habits changed. Is it because I'm mafia? NO. It is because I was busy. Youngminii himself posted that he was busy. And even, as mafia, wouldn't he want to try to play the same as normal? I never once said I had proof he was red. I said he was not being helpful and there was no better lynch target. | ||
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On August 16 2010 10:24 DarthThienAn wrote: It's all wifom. That, along with the concept that BM doesn't need to shoot until it's LYLO makes it risky, but reasonable and definitely doable if he's confident that he'll be able to defend himself. However, I lean toward BM being town. If he's red it's a gamble: if there is a vigi he's dead; if not, it's a very good cover (as Korynne and LSB repeatedly point out). This small chance at a good wifom alibi seems like a bad gamble to me vs. the reality of getting shot at night. It sucks having to stake the game on BM making a "rational decision", but Korynne and the other suspects have in the meantime made me feel better about my choice. | ||
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On August 16 2010 10:23 DarthThienAn wrote: That said, ##Vote Korynne citi.zen, what's your penalty? jw, because I don't have yours in my chart =D. I'll phrase mine exactly as Jayme phrased it awhile ago. I look guilty. lolol. Also, @BM: What is your penalty? I just want to be sure because it seems like you were lying for the first half of the game or so, and thus, the list would be wrong. Updating the list: Adjective Claims:: Penalty Claim. Ace: Nytophobic Must telegraph moves to the town before acting. Pyrr: Cautious Detective: Can't get results back until later Korynne: Dogmatic: Can't change actions. zeks: Pitiful: If lynched, random person on the wagon gets permanent +1 voting power LSB: citi.zen: Suicidal youngminii: Selfish Scamp: Lazy: Limited amount of votes bumatlarge: Equivocating Treestump: Epic fail treestump. Basically becomes a mafia treestump if used Bill Murray: Wrathful Vigilante: If he dies, a town power role dies. Divinek: Unwary: If a mafia is lynched it negatively impacts on him for the following night Jayme: Goth: looks guilty chaoser: Obvious If he votes majority, he cannot vote the next day. Unlike the mafia, I was not given a "safe" penalty. If I post my penalty the mafia can use it to kill me, so forgive me but I can't. | ||
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On August 17 2010 03:41 Korynne wrote: If BM claims to vigi me and mafia doesn't shoot or shoots me at night then like, they basically wasted a chance to kill someone. Like if we lynch BM if he doesn't shoot me, then if mafia doesn't shoot anyone/shoots me at night that's the equivalent of them shooting BM instead at night, and we lynch someone else during the day, which is giving us another chance at hitting mafia, so it's not bad. So like seriously, can we lynch someone else today and then: 1) I follow instructions and vote majority, BM vigis me tonight 2) I don't follow instructions and don't vote majority, BM vigis someone else or doesn't vigi at night, you guys lynch me tomorrow (if I'm town I wouldn't screw you guys over and so if it's LYLO lynching me is totally fine because then I'm obviously mafia) 3) Me + someone else doesn't die tonight, in which case we lynch BM tomorrow Like, lynch BM if I'm the only one that dies. If BM's mafia and can't vigi, then obviously lynch him. If BM's not mafia then mafia framed him, but like I said, that's equivalent to killing him at night. How do you feel about Chaoser? | ||
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On August 17 2010 05:21 Korynne wrote: citi.zen, I don't feel about anyone. Like I said, just not me or BM. With a lot of you adamant on me being mafia, anyone I bring up strongly kind of becomes a big circle of WIFOM. So taking out me and BM for obvious reasons (execution of the plan), the choices we have are: chaoser citi.zen Divinek bumatlarge Scamp LSB From word/penalty/role claims, I would go for chaoser, Darth, Scamp, or Divinek. I guess I'll do an analysis of each when I get home today. Your plan requires: a. A better, 3rd lynch candidate (right now you and BM have all the votes); and b. A bandwagon for that candidate. Waiting until the last moment after we've had a 72h day seems designed to distract, more than find reds or implement your plan. Still, finally hearing your thoughts will be interesting. | ||
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On August 17 2010 06:42 DarthThienAn wrote: Come to think of it, why isn't chaoser dead? Why would mafia hit zeks? To remove the threat of the +1 vote? All they would need to do that is prevent zeks from being lynched. This post obviously implies that he's either blue or red. So if he's not red, mafia would know that he's blue. So why would they hit zeks, who was just a townie? ##unvote Vote chaoser Meh... once you switched you already saved Korynne. She will obviously not vote for herself. Divinek said he's 100% willing to switch as well, bringing Korynne to 2 votes and making this a race between BM and Chaoser. Bad choice in my view, but it is what it is. ##unvote ##Vote Chaoser Korynne, please get on the wagon :-) | ||
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Korynne, that suspect analysis would still be appreciated. | ||
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On August 17 2010 07:30 LSB wrote: ##Unovte ##Vote: Abstain I'm suspicious why suddenly Divinek/Citi.zen/DarthThienAn accepted this plan. I'd like a bit more thinking time. The main problem is looking at Divinek/Citi.zen/DarthThieAn as the three group mafia. They know that if this plan goes through, it's gg. I never accepted it. I'd still like to lynch korynne, but I ain't got the votes. Having everyone on that wagon would be ideal to keep our options open, I've said as much many times. | ||
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On August 17 2010 07:33 Korynne wrote: I've been too lazy and not having enough time to do anything. What happens if me and chaoser are town? Lol - to think you'll get away with it too! | ||
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Lynching her today is still the best plan. | ||
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Unvote ##vote korynne If you two switch, we have the votes since korynne can't switch. | ||
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On August 17 2010 09:12 Scamp wrote: I'm really not sure what the vote count is right now. I hope my vote isn't needed. ##vote: abstain Be a good sport and get on the wagon. Same with everyone else. | ||
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On August 17 2010 10:12 bumatlarge wrote: Well unless you have 1 vote, you should start using them. We will need you for lylo, so I guess adjust yourself accordingly He voted last lynch cycle. | ||
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On August 13 2010 11:32 Korynne wrote: So like, working on stuff, but like been busy with school and work and things. Sorry, will get around to it. =( Just noticed that in the team melee thread. Makes me nervous. Let's see that flip already... | ||
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On August 17 2010 11:13 Korynne wrote: Sorry guys. >.< I really shouldn't be playing mafia when I don't have enough time to commit to such things... Totally LVP me this game. >.< I think everyone on town shares the LVP. I was wrong about... everything thus far. | ||
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On August 17 2010 12:33 Bill Murray wrote: If I mishit we lose, unless mafia hit a veteran or we have another penalized doctor what am i supposed to do? Chaoser/LSB would make fine targets in my view, but you can't hit them. | ||
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On August 17 2010 23:04 LSB wrote: Divienk and Citi.zen has never seriously accused someone (well out of day 1) in the Citi.zen/BM/Divienk/DTA group. I am not so sure about BM and DTA BM: He gets ganked, and then calls out for lane mates. Citi.zen/Divienk magically show up day 2. His working with them could be more sticking to people that helps him DTA: We don't have enough info on DTA, DTA just joined in, and natrually he could trust the more active veterans of the game. The problem is, the more active members of the game are the mafia. Then again, maybe swap out BM for DTA? Bill Murray I'm touched. On the other hand, chaoser/lsb/scamp didn't push for 3 mislynches... Hmm Now we're making progress! I accused... everyone except pyrr thus far: ace, young, korynne... You know this. If you want to incriminate me you can do a lot better. | ||
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Okay sure. Citi.zen actively went after Ace, Youngminii, Korynne, and Choaser Citi.zen day 1 accused Bill Murray, but afterwards, he became Bill's biggest defender. Otherwise, he doesn't seem to be making any new attacks If you want to criticize me, say I was wrong 100% of the time this game, that's totally fair. You could also point out mistakes I made - there are plenty of those. Don't just say I "don't seem to be been making any new attacks" - that's a half assed attempt to spread doubt, and an obvious lie. Don't get me wrong though, if you're red you did very well this game. | ||
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On August 18 2010 05:22 LSB wrote: I'd say lynch Citi.zen tomorrow. Of course you would. | ||
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On August 18 2010 05:42 bumatlarge wrote: Sorry charlie, have fun trying to convince the town to lynch LSB! Glad you're so sure of yourself. No point trying to persuade you of anything. Please, in future games, don't ask random people to tell you what to do. Invest the time to think for yourself. | ||
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On August 18 2010 07:25 bumatlarge wrote: Yeah maybe you should go back a few pages, DTA was a fresh take on the game, but all that talk and we're basically screwed anyway? I'll just resort to what I feel thank you very much. It just so happens LSB feels the sameway. Just :-) | ||
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On August 18 2010 10:47 LSB wrote: It doesn't matter if she was wrong or right. All that matters is that she flipped town. And apparently, you... don't... care... You're making so many bad arguments today, it's an amazing transformation. Of course, it probably won't matter since bum + the other 2 mafia give you enough votes. La-la-la~ When's the night post? | ||
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My role is Suicidal Townie, if I get the 2nd highest number of votes on any given day I will be lynched in place of the player having highest number of votes. None of that matters now, the game's over. ##vote Divinek | ||
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Oh well, it is what it is. Well played mafia. | ||
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On August 10 2010 08:17 citi.zen wrote: Scumhunt. Right. ##Vote Ace Probably the turning point in the game, I was an idiot. That vote saved BM from a day 1 lynch and killed pyrr instead. From then on, with each extra day BM lived he became more "confirmed" to me... spiraling into one wrong decision after another. | ||
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I must be missing some possibilities here... | ||
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I just wanted everyone to claim penalties so you could HOLD everyone to their penalties and kill off the liars asap. From the perspective of most players this was not possible. You'd only know if I lied about my penalty by killing me. From my role pm I was pretty convinced townies had different types of penalties from blues (I didn't have to perform any "action" for the penalty to kick in). Bumatlarge, whose penalty we knew, was someone you would not even want to confirm, given his penalty - which was another issue with verifying penalties. This is why I thought Ace was red fishing for information to snipe blues. tl;dr: next time this is run it should be smoother since people won't make that many assumptions about the nature of the penalties. | ||
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On August 19 2010 04:25 Ace wrote: wait citizen was on every innocent lynch wagon? Not only that, I initiated the youngminii and korynne (twice) wagons. Every assumption I worked from was wrong: Ace's plan didn't seem to do anything but possibly out blues, youngmiii and korynne were playing like I've never seen them play, BM made no sense "as usual" but more importantly he claimed vig and remained alive... Even on the last day, without Divinek's claim I would have voted for LSB as red, since he made the rather strange argument that I had "not attacked enough"... instead of the obvious "you saved BM on day 1" or what Ace just said about me being on every wrong wagon. So yeah, I was wrong about everything at every point in the game. | ||
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