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On October 30 2010 05:52 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 05:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote:artanis told me it is possible that people can be converted into a neutral circle (the one fishball talked about) and that masons may be active.
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Mason
so they can convert people into their PM circle I guess, passing on the power of PMing. that could be very interesting and it would change the dynamics of my whole gambitsomehow it makes me more suspicious of fishball, but I need to think about it more Well gee, that's curious. I wonder if we go back to bumatlarge's posts and why he said Fishball's method, if true, was faster, what we can put together. Well, I suppose his reasons are still unknown then? Do not vote pandain. Vote anyone but pandain. I say it should be me or fishball. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS STATED ABOVE. I never really retracted my run :/ misinformation! And when I get back from work I'm gonna really go through what people are spreading around.
Are you claiming to also be in Fishball's circle? What are the "obvious reasons stated above"?
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On October 30 2010 06:18 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 06:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 06:14 Pandain wrote:On October 30 2010 06:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote: actually it's pretty bad for town to have fewer candidates Its even worse when several blues run claiming they are important..... since that means they're either mafia or going to get sniped off. everyone is a blue in this game lol i'm the only candidate aside from node who is claiming to offer 100% proof that I am not mafia when I'm elected, just saying you have offered nothing yet have a huge bandwagon behind you for whatever reason read my previous post. valuable blue. I can offer proof as well, albeit it will be somewhat indirect. Are you sure you can offer 100% proof? Why can you not just do it now? I myself have a valuable role, however I do not roleclaim because I know there's a chance I may lose, and do not want mafia knowing what I have.
What makes you think there are invaluable blues? Every role has a purpose, some may be more bizarre than others, but I would think that every role is potentially game changing.
I trust that Dr.H can stand true to his word of 100% proof of town. If not, then we have our first town lynch target.
As for Fishball, without multiple members of your circle stepping forward, I can't trust you.
Pandain, all you are offering is being a loyal townie, and being able to "indirectly" prove your role. Well congrats at being a townie, you can continue to be one. We need a Mayor who can lead the town to victory, not just aid the town in getting there.
We need a Mayor with potential, with a plan. Bum, Dr.H, and Fishball all have given those to us, you really have not.
My vote is going to Dr.H.
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On October 30 2010 07:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 06:56 Amber[LighT] wrote: DrH I'm willing to throw my vote on you if you're going to seriously get the town organized. I am not confident about the FB vote and I still feel comfortable about Pandain, but if you really want the mayoral power I'll support you. You're the only person that's putting forth the effort to organize a strategic plan past the first night. here is my basic plan for organization: 1. at night i can confirm to one player that I am who I say I am. 2. that player confirms to the town my role 3. hopefully masons will induct me into the circle 4. with my power i can help coordinate other roles, I don't want to say too much as to how right now. There are only two scenarios in which the 1st step can fail. They are very very very very very very unlikely. If the person I confirm to is mafia, they can just lie and say I didn't confirm to them or never bring it up. Mafia will be forced to confirm that I am blue, or I'll out them for lying. I can be much more specific when I'm sure I can not be killed at night.
How will you confirm to one player your role if there are no PMs?
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On October 30 2010 07:08 Coagulation wrote: How do we know the person who is "verifying" your confirmation of your role isnt just a Scumbuddy of yours?
We don't, obviously. But that's the whole nature of the game, friend.
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Well, I see it this way. Dr.H has no reason to give us the names of another Mafia member just to get the Mayor position. I mean, sure, it's a nice position, but worth losing teammates over? Not sure...
There aren't 22 scum like there were in Haunted, there are many fewer (I forget exactly how many). This means that every time a mafia member dies, it is a bigger hit this game.
I hope there wouldn't be more than one shape-shifting role in the mafia.
One question though: Does the Godfather get chosen Day1 or Night1?
If Godfather gets chosen Night1, then Dr.H couldn't possibly be shapeshifting now. Also, since he is roleclaiming immediately after being elected, it wouldn't give the Mafia enough time to have a Godfather, so even if he's Mafia, the person he would be claiming to wouldn't be shapeshifting yet. Or something to that effect...
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On October 30 2010 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote: To clarify about the Mayor since this was unclear: He can be targetted by any night action that isn't aimed at killing him as long as possible bodyguard(s) is/are still alive. Exception to this being if murrayitis is triggered but possible bodyguard(s) is/are still alive.
So the Mayor can be role/alignment checked?
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Ok, so operating under the assumption that the only shape shifter role is the Godfather:
If Dr.H is Godfather and claims to a Mafia who will then confirm his role as a blue, we can DT check them both and figure it out, even if we have to check one by one.
If Dr.H is Mafia and claims to Godfather, who would confirm him and shape shift, hoping to be checked and turn blue, then a check on Dr.H would find out his alignment.
If Dr.H accidentally claims to a Mafia, that fucking sucks, but he claims that this is low percentage, and he would be able to try to out them as Mafia.
I think Dr.H is a safe and smart choice.
P.S. If nobody from Fishball's "circle" steps forward in the next few hours, I want to place a FoS on Fishball.
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On October 30 2010 07:45 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It's important that I'm aware of anyone with the same role as me so I can confirm to them since they are guaranteed pro-town.
If you have my role, just leave a few codewords in your posts as you go along and I'll notice it. You'll know what to say. You'll be the first person I confirm to.
Rhinocerous O_O
sorry...had to...
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Holy shit, guys, I go out for a night of Halloween weekend fun, and come back to all this??
@orgolove: You're being an ass. You were kind of an ass in Haunted once your spreadsheet failed, and you're being more of an ass now. Yes, Dr.H made some modding mistakes. But Haunted was a HUGE game, and on top of that, it was a bumblefuck of situations with a shit ton of mod kills. You need to stop bringing it up because it's in the past and shit happens.
@Dr.H: Yes, a lot of arguments have been made at you, and a lot of WIFOM has been brought up. However, I view a lot of it as people playing Devil's Advocate, as I was earlier. Asking all these questions and presenting different scenarios will get the town further into discussion. The fact that so much argument has been put upon you is because people fear you, which is both good and bad. The Mafia are probably terrified that you are gaining influence, and the town is afraid to trust you. That being said, I feel that your role claim gives you a lot of trust, and your posts and strategy has been extremely pro-town.
@town: I encourage you all to keep thinking and presenting different scenarios and challenging theories. Leave the personal attacks at home, and post constructively. We still have ~15 hours to decide our Mayor.
With that, I'm gonna go to bed, don't have TOO many pages for me to read in the morning ^_^
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I apologize, mods and orgolove, I did not mean to get into personal attacks myself. I'm sorry for attacking and being a hypocrite.
That being said, orgolove, that is a good, constructive analysis that can generate discussion, and discussion we shall have!
It is not a decision to be made lightly. If we select a mafia into the position, it would be a disaster of cosmic proportions. Conversely, if we select an important blue into the position, the town will be much closer to victory.
Agreed, it is a decision that needs to be taken heavily into consideration. Electing a Scum-Mayor would suck, but I don't think it's quite as disastrous as you make it out to be. It will give the Mafia a bit more pull and influence, yes, but as long as we don't trust the Mayor completely blindly, we can limit that influence. And yes, a blue as Mayor is always good.
THESIS: So it raises the question, are the benefits greater than the risks?
So let me reiterate. According to his own descriptions, DrH can check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis.
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately. Rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
You decide - is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person ONE night, in a 40 person game, so important that it requires the protection afforded to a mayor?
This is not all completely true. M-itis does not rely solely on the controlled spread of the Mafia. It is "highly contagious" and will spread to anyone in contact with infected persons. So, if an infected blue watches or investigates, etc. (depending on roles in the game) a Mafia, that Mafia member is also infected. I think some people are forgetting that the Mafia is also at risk to die once the M-itis pops.
Proposed Scenarios: 1. Dr.H is elected and is Town: Having someone who can combat the spread of M-itis while being immune to it (without Plague Doctor protection) and immune to night kills (while bodyguards are alive) is, I believe, very important in this particular game. He can then find out who has M-itis (and simultaneously, his role will be PMd to the poke-ey) and direct the Plague Doctors to give them immunity.
2. Dr.H is elected and is Mafia: He could do all this fake claiming and elaborate planning to get Mafia members to fake his claims. However, this has a couple issues which Dr.H has elaborated on many many times. Would a Mafia really put his neck out there THIS far just to gain night immunity and an extra vote? If there are any blue roles that can kill, it would be much better for the Mafia to remain unsuspected at all, because aside from a lynch, the Mafia won't get killed at night (unless there are blue kills or M-itis). Additionally, if Dr.H had multiple scumbuddies faking his claim for the ruse, well then every time, he has outed a friend, because you can be damn sure that whoever he pokes and comes forward will be scrutinized and probably DT checked. And if we believe that Dr.H is being very scummy, we lynch. The loss of the Mayor would really suck though.
I believe it is, in fact, VERY important to be checking, one-by-one who has M-itis. That is probably the biggest threat in the game (only "probably" because of lack of known roles).
Next, to support his second point, he continued from his roleclaim and declared that by "poking" someone the first night and having the target confirm the event, he will definitely be shown as a blue.
Considering the number of unknowns in this game, there are so many potential traps in here that we can't possibly trust this. And apparently I'm not the only one to pick up on it. Just to name a few:
I believe this could be said about any of the candidates. There are so many potential traps with electing any good player to be Mayor. We can't possibly trust anyone in the game, as is the nature of Mafia.
I close this with one last thing I place under your consideration. The Town Mayor is a position of leadership. Both with his ability to immediately lynch 1 player, as well as his increased number of votes in the daily lynches, the mayor has a responsibility to take charge of the town and be a levelheaded leader who will not be guided by emotion.
If we do get an experienced, well-intentioned and collected leader
However, DoctorHelvetica has been increasingly emotional and defensive as questions against his alignment mounted.
DrH could not keep his cool when people merely questioned him during his candidacy. Can we truly trust him to lead the town as a mayor, unaffected by his personal bias?
I do somewhat agree with you here, but only on the part where Dr.H has gotten increasingly emotional as the thread went on. We do need a Mayor who is a good leader and can take the responsibility of the position. However, I'm not sure I see the other candidates being able to do it as effectively. In my opinion, Dr.H has kept his cool fairly well. He has been stable throughout this game. Dr.H is a very responsible and experienced player, and he has proven himself as a leader, even amongst all of the questioning. I would say that he has been so emotional (I see it as frustrated rather than emotional) because he had said the same things over and over for multiple pages. His campaign has been concrete this whole time, and he offers a lot to the town, with relatively low gain for scum if he is Mafia.
In conclusion, I believe that the election of Dr.H grants more benefits to the town than possible risks if he were Mafia. I think he is a smart choice because of his ability to combat the disease that will most likely destroy many players. The longer we can keep the M-itis explosion at bay, the better off the town will be, and Dr.H's role seems to lend itself very well to that ability.
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Mmmk, Dr.H, I did feel it was necessary for you to address the constructive post that orgolove made, because it can cause for good discussion. I would, however, like the whole argument over personal attacking to stop. I got sucked into it, but I'm hoping to also aid in the end of it. I would hate to see modkills over arguments. The past is the past, and we don't want another Pandain/Bill Murray incident on our hands. God forbid we make the next town suffer from orgolove-atoma or Dr.H Disease O_o
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On October 31 2010 01:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 01:30 jcarlsoniv wrote: Mmmk, Dr.H, I did feel it was necessary for you to address the constructive post that orgolove made, because it can cause for good discussion. I would, however, like the whole argument over personal attacking to stop. I got sucked into it, but I'm hoping to also aid in the end of it. I would hate to see modkills over arguments. The past is the past, and we don't want another Pandain/Bill Murray incident on our hands. God forbid we make the next town suffer from orgolove-atoma or Dr.H Disease O_o I agree, but it's something that happened and I want to make it clear what made me incensed. I think it's sort of silly for orgolove to criticize me for being emotional when he himself provoked it ...twice.
Yes, but what's done is done, and we can't go back and change it. So let's move forward with discussions instead of dwelling on it! =)
Argument over! *looks around hoping everyone gets happy faces*
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On October 31 2010 02:19 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 02:02 Glasse wrote:On October 31 2010 02:01 ghrur wrote:On October 31 2010 01:57 kitaman27 wrote:On October 31 2010 01:52 ghrur wrote: Why do I feel ignored? T_T At this time, I would like to declare my intentions to vote for the noble candidate ghrur. As much as I appreciate this, I really think I shouldn't be. I mean, I threw my name in because I feel like I'm able to keep my calm, but now that I look over it, I'm not active enough. I also really gain nothing from bodyguards as I can do this as a townie. Also, I feel that my role isn't strong enough. Instead, I really want to hear Glasse's platform once again. Lol i don't really want to be mayor i just like having fun :D Its my second mafia game, i can't be as active as others. However i can prove that i'm town easily. All depends if you want the possibility of a mafia mayor or not :O I think we would all like to eliminate the possibility of a mafia mayor. We just want to know who has the best "way" to prove it with as little reasonable loop holes as possible. And thanks Kita, lol. xD
Well, it's not just about being able to give people security in your claim. Being Mayor is also a position of power and leadership, as orgo said. So we can't just vote on who can role claim and convince the town that they are town, I'm sure many of people could do this. We need an experienced player who will aid the town with a plan and with their abilities. Don't get me wrong though, I definitely want to avoid a Scum-Mayor as much as possible (obviously).
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On October 31 2010 05:09 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 01:01 DCLXVI wrote:Fishball - I still think that you are safe enough within your circle [What? Elaborate, not a blanket statement. If you seriously bring up that Medic/Mayor question again, I'll lose it]and I would rather have you as a back up leader since we cannot be sure of the security of your circle. [I think I know what you mean, but if you compare the first sentence and this, it doesn't really make sense at all. "You're safe in the circle! But we can't trust the security of the circle!"]once a few people die in it we can scrutinize the few remaining for a mafia. [This was already briefly discussed on page 29 and 30.]I still don't understand why all of you don't want to reveal yourselves. If there is a mafia in the circle - highly likely I think - then the mafia knows all of you anyways. [Possible Mafia in the circle would means he know who are the members, but not their respective roles and abilities. Are you implying we should come out with our roles and abilities, or just simply requesting everyone in the circle to come out? If it is the former, then that would be retarded. If it is the latter, then I have replied to this at least a couple times already. Click here and here]You are just withholding information from the town for what purpose? [Withholding what information? If you're still talking about the members, then refer to the answer above. Besides that, the only thing I'm "withholding" now is my role. What else do you want?] My response in red. To be honest, you're either Mafia trying to discredit me, or your reading comprehension is just bad, which baffles me. Even though your post is longer compared to some other players, the points made (at the very least, to me) are either weak, or have been discussed before. Your post falls into this category.
I think what he meant in the first two points was that he believes that your safety in the circle won't be compromised if you aren't Mayor, but we cannot fully trust the circle itself if you are Mayor. At least that's what I got out of it.
You are withholding more than just your role. You are withholding who the members of the circle are. We don't necessarily need to know their roles, but we need to know that the circle exists. If there is scum in the circle (which you yourself have admitted you think there probably is), then all of the Mafia already know that the circle exists, and they know who every member in the circle is. On the other hand, the town is completely left in the dark about whether or not the circle exists because nobody in it has stepped forward.
What you are essentially doing is keeping information away from the town that the Mafia probably already has.
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One thing I want to point out:
On October 31 2010 05:01 Kenpachi wrote: ##Elect DoctorHelvetica
From voting thread. Kenpachi has not posted once since the game started. Let's keep a closer eye on lurkers than we did in Haunted.
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On October 31 2010 06:02 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 05:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I think what he meant in the first two points was that he believes that your safety in the circle won't be compromised if you aren't Mayor, but we cannot fully trust the circle itself if you are Mayor. At least that's what I got out of it. I did say "I think I know what you mean". I'm just picking on the wording he used. Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 05:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:
You are withholding more than just your role. You are withholding who the members of the circle are. We don't necessarily need to know their roles, but we need to know that the circle exists. If there is scum in the circle (which you yourself have admitted you think there probably is), then all of the Mafia already know that the circle exists, and they know who every member in the circle is. On the other hand, the town is completely left in the dark about whether or not the circle exists because nobody in it has stepped forward.
What you are essentially doing is keeping information away from the town that the Mafia probably already has. ??? So you're asking the exact same question he did, which I replied. - "If you're still talking about the members, then refer to the answer above." - "If it is the latter, then I have replied to this at least a couple times already. Click here and here"
I have read your posts, but I still don't understand why you're hiding it from us. It would be nice if the circle members stepped forward, but at this point I want YOU to tell us who is in the circle. Give us names. Why are you keeping this information from the town when the Mafia most likely already has it?
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On October 31 2010 06:50 Glasse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 06:43 infinitestory wrote:On October 31 2010 06:38 Aeres wrote:On October 31 2010 06:28 infinitestory wrote:On October 31 2010 06:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 31 2010 04:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: 1.5 hours to go Doctorhelvetica: 12 Doctorhelvetica LunarDestiny Aeres jcarlsoniv Node SiNiquity Meapak_Ziphh Veldril CubEdIn Amber[LighT] Kenpachi Elder vote
Bumatlarge: 6 Bumatlarge Ace Lexpar Divinek deconduo infundibulum
Fishball: 5 youngminii orgolove Fishball Misder KtheZ
Pandain: 3 Nemesis Coagulation Pandain
Brownbear: 1 Brownbear
DCLXVI: 1 DCLXVI
kingjames01: 1 kingjames01
annul: 1 annul
kitaman27: 1 kitaman27
Glasse: 1 Glasse
infinitestory: 1 infinitestory
ghrur: 1 ghrur
NB: 1 NB
Not voted yet: 5 Hyperbola, lol1221, QuickStriker, ShmotZ, Masq hey yo what the fuck is an elder vote guys bet it's a special role which gets 1 extra vote (since there are only 11 people voting for you) You must have miscounted. Including this "Elder" fellow, there are 12 votes for the Doc. So, maybe the role you're talking about has been nerfed for this game, or has some other power in conjunction with vote anonymity. fuck i assumed it meant that one person in the list gets an extra vote, which is listed as "Elder" I was reading a bunch of roles on mafiascum wiki and i saw something interesting. The "elder" could be only able to vote on 1 target, but give 2 votes. which means one of the voters has 2 votes. Now look at the first vote count where elder wasnt and the vote count where vote is. Now this could have been a PM he held off until now but it could also be someone that was just added and counted as 2 People added to his list that could have 2 votes : SiNiquity Meapak_Ziphh Veldril CubEdIn Amber[LighT] Kenpachi
This is interesting. It's sort of like a mini-Mayor without the protection, and with some privacy? Would the two votes have to be for the same person? Or could it possibly be someone who voted elsewhere, but then secretly voted for Dr.H so people don't know that's where he really wants his vote? I wonder what other applications it has, it sounds like it's just useful for helping rig elections. Additionally, do you think it's coupled with another power, or a standalone role?
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On October 31 2010 06:25 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 06:14 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 31 2010 06:02 Fishball wrote:On October 31 2010 05:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I think what he meant in the first two points was that he believes that your safety in the circle won't be compromised if you aren't Mayor, but we cannot fully trust the circle itself if you are Mayor. At least that's what I got out of it. I did say "I think I know what you mean". I'm just picking on the wording he used. On October 31 2010 05:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:
You are withholding more than just your role. You are withholding who the members of the circle are. We don't necessarily need to know their roles, but we need to know that the circle exists. If there is scum in the circle (which you yourself have admitted you think there probably is), then all of the Mafia already know that the circle exists, and they know who every member in the circle is. On the other hand, the town is completely left in the dark about whether or not the circle exists because nobody in it has stepped forward.
What you are essentially doing is keeping information away from the town that the Mafia probably already has. ??? So you're asking the exact same question he did, which I replied. - "If you're still talking about the members, then refer to the answer above." - "If it is the latter, then I have replied to this at least a couple times already. Click here and here" I have read your posts, but I still don't understand why you're hiding it from us. It would be nice if the circle members stepped forward, but at this point I want YOU to tell us who is in the circle. Give us names. Why are you keeping this information from the town when the Mafia most likely already has it? I'm still waiting. Do I have to announce in detail on every little update I make in my head, up to the minute? - I've already PM'd the three "relatively" active members and ask whether they would agree to come out or not. - The others flat out haven't posted in the thread and I rather see them mod-killed, as it hurts the game more than anything regardless of alignment. - This is also one of the reasons why I'm not really pushing so hard for Mayor now, as if the circle falls, my role is useless and vice versa (The circle needs me). I already said I might announce my role even if I don't get Mayor, so if I do announce it, it will easily make sense. - If I don't hear much feed back in a couple hours, it is very likely I'll just announce the list of members and my role. This is all I'm going to say for now. I don't expect you to vote for me based on all the previous information I've provided, but if people simply can't stand waiting in the so called "darkness", then so be it.
I am not asking you to give us every detail you are thinking of. I am only asking for names. The longer you hold this information from the town, the longer the Mafia can talk about what to do without, and the less time we will be able to. At this point you are crippling the town.
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On October 31 2010 07:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 07:09 Ace wrote: Just because some of them heavily disagreed with you doesn't mean you should lynch them. It's Day 1, you don't have any information beyond your suspicions. Don't lynch an active player unless they've done something extremely scummy to the point that most of the town can agree on it.
Of your 5 listed players:
Youngminii and NB are the most suspect to me. Youngminii for his vote with no early explanation in the game and his inactivity ever since, and NB for that alarming post he made about 10? pages back. Other than that the rest of those posters are active and you'd be making a big mistake lynching any of them. If they are active and you suspect them to be Scum you can always trap them later. So lynch an inactive like Kenpachi you think?
I agree with Ace in this sense. Since we have so little information, lynching actives all willy-nilly could be dangerous. Youngminii should be looked at, as well as SiNiquity because of their vague support posts. Kenpachi should definitely be looked at because his vote was very late and he hasn't posted once in the thread.
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On October 31 2010 07:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 07:16 kitaman27 wrote: I'm open to hearing why I am the 4th scummiest person on your list if you would like to provide a reason DrH. It's a bit meta, admittedly. Your insistence on pushing a scenario that is pretty far out and meta in an extremely subjective sense struck me as strange considering your mostly logical play in Haunted Mafia. I am more interested in seeing how you play the rest of the game rather than lynching you. But you're on my radar so to speak. There are so many numerous tells and Day 1 scumhunting is very weak compared to how well it can be done later in the game so I wouldn't worry too much tbh. I have a strong feeling about orgolove but I fear I might be blinded by personal bias. I would urge the town to read my latest post in response to him and my previous post here and offer what they think of him as a candidate. If it is unsatisfactory, I'll lynch an inactive voter. The question is who. Divineks inactivity strikes me as a bit strange, I'd think he'd be jumping in arguments like this considering the way he plays. He's a smart player who loves to analyse. This is reminding me a bit of how he played haunted mafia which was very low-key and pro-town. CubEdIn or Kenpachi would be another fair choice. Here was my post in response to Orgoloves huge dissertation about how awful I am which no one ignored (thanks to Glasse's spam :p) + Show Spoiler +On October 31 2010 01:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 18:15 orgolove wrote:DoctorHelvetica's Candidacy: Orgoloves "reality"Just step back, and take a look. Forget all personal feelings, and just look at the facts. We are trying to vote for a mayor of the town. The chosen will: - Kill one person of his choice immediately at the end of the first day
- have increased voting power for each subsequent lynches
- near invincibility to night kills thanks to the presence of bodyguards
Night kill invincibility is not a huge concern for a mafia, the first two powers are the ones we are really concerned with. Invincibility to night kills, however, is something the mafia really worry about since having a townie it in it, much less a mostly confirmed one is a disaster. For them.It is not a decision to be made lightly. If we select a mafia into the position, it would be a disaster of cosmic proportions. Conversely, if we select an important blue into the position, the town will be much closer to victory. It is hardly a disaster to elect mafia in this game. In fact there are multiple scenarios in which it could benefit the town. This isn't a point I'm trying to make against you. The true power of a mafia mayor comes not from the day 1 lynch (a mafia mayor is most likely to choose the candidate the town wants to avoid pressure/disagreement that could paint him red), but from the increased voting power at the end of the game. Mafia can control bandwagons easier and achieve LYLO faster. 2 increased voting power is an effective mafia increase of 1. A mafia mayor invites role checks and will probably be inducted into the town circle, an immense amount of pressure is placed on him.
When Artanis announced that rolechecks reveal alignment even of the mayor I figured someone would drop out of the race and that person would be a nervous mafia afraid of the pressure. Since that hasn't happened I can only assume that the mafia is a very experienced/ballsy candidate (I admit I fit this bill) or someone who is losing in the polls anyway and is just going to stay in for fear of suspicion.DrH's candidacy hinges on two points. - His claim that his role is extremely important - so much so that his role deserves the extra protection afforded to the mayor.
I would say that yes, my role is very useful and that protection can help me perform critical coordination of blues. I can constantly confirm my role to people throughout the game (Not just Day 1) and there are various ways I have shown it can be proven if, say, my poke actually infects somebody or not, both of which are concerns of the town.
It has also been demonstrated by me that if my confirmations are made up, I would have to consistently out scumbuddies. This is a scenario where me as a mafia mayor benefits town immensely in the late game.
- His claim that he is not a red, and that he will roleclaim without a shadow of doubt after the first day.
Well not being a red is definitely important and I will use my confirmation power every night unless it is proven to be an insane role that infects people with M-Rus
To support his first point, he revealed that his role is "Mr Sticky," a role that allows him to "poke" someone as his night action. If his claim is correct, he will then know if the target has Murrayitis. Not Mr Sticky, but yes this is true. To make the mechanics as clear as possible.
I poke someone at night. If the person DOES NOT have murrayitis they receive a poke and are told "You have been poked by DoctorHelvetica"
If the person DOES have murrayitis they receive no message and I know they have murrayitis.On October 30 2010 13:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 13:40 kingjames01 wrote:On October 30 2010 13:31 bumatlarge wrote: I think it's safe to say you are claiming plague doctor, and the person you protect gets notified that you did this? That could be convenient. I do find it possible that mafia could have there own plague doctor, but Im not here to speculate that. If you use your power on me, and I can add you, we can start a circle. To verify it, you would give me one bodyguard who I would relay all of the information I learn. A medic can protect me if they wish, without fearing M-rus. If there is another plague doctor besides Dr.H (if that is what you are) Id suggst picking fishball, who has stated he has means to a circle and a role. That way another medic can choose between myself and fishball to protect. Whats really important is that the medics are safe in this from the M-rus, and if fishball or I die from a lucky shot by mafia, then oh well, fishball or myself die.
Is this plausible Dr. H? If so, then you have my vote. DrH is NOT claiming Plague Doctor. He says that he can tell if someone has the plague but he cannot confer immunity. His other apparent ability is to have Artanis PM a player with confirmation that DrH is who he says he is. I'm still not sure why that would be related to Sticky. sticky is a stick I poke people with a stick and they are told if I poked them or not. If the poke is unsuccessful than I know that person has m-rus or that I was roleblocked if there is a roleblocker. Remember the mechanic of Murrayitis: On October 29 2010 07:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Murrayitis Mechanics. The amount of people infected with Murrayitis is posted at the start of the day. Murrayitis is transferred if a carrier is visited, or visits someone during the night. Doctors can cure someone from Murrayitis. While Plague Doctors can cure and transfer immunity to someone with Murrayitis. If over half of the Game has Murrayitis, every carrier of Murrayitis dies. So let me reiterate. According to his own descriptions, DrH can check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis. Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately. Rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town. If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over. You decide - is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person ONE night, in a 40 person game, so important that it requires the protection afforded to a mayor?
Next, to support his second point, he continued from his roleclaim and declared that by "poking" someone the first night and having the target confirm the event, he will definitely be shown as a blue. Considering the number of unknowns in this game, there are so many potential traps in here that we can't possibly trust this. And apparently I'm not the only one to pick up on it. Just to name a few: On October 30 2010 13:12 kingjames01 wrote: Everyone, consider this scenario. The mafia share the names and abilities of their individual roles with the group. DrH claims the name and abilities of one of his mafia teammates, ie. "Sticky". He gets elected mayor during the day and then at night, he gets elected Godfather. As Godfather, he chooses to appear as "Sticky" to any detective checks. At night, the real "Sticky" does whatever "Stickies" are supposed to do. When day breaks, DrH claims responsibility so we start to believe him more. We go along with his scheming and then we lose.
Just to remind everyone, this is an impossibility. Since my poke goes through under my name, it is my ability.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote:Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role: Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected. The easy way to confirm is this is for plague doctors to check the people I poke and see if they turn out infected.This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM. On October 30 2010 13:31 kingjames01 wrote:I just want to point out that Sticky is the name of the stick that Bill Murray used to defend himself when the mafia took him out in Mafia XXXI. I don't think that is a coincidence since a major theme of this game is Bill Murray. On October 13 2010 13:02 BrownBear wrote:Night 3 It was a dark and stormy night. The survivors huddled in the ruins of their houses, shivering, makeshift weapons pointed at the doors. Bill Murray had found a pointy stick. It was his favorite pointy stick. He had named it Sticky. Thunder crashed in the distance as he shivered in his bed, Sticky pointed directly at the door, pointy end first.
The door creaked open. Bill Murray leaped up and screamed "PROTECT ME, STICKY!!!", then charged at the door, Sticky first.Bill Murray the Miller is now dead. Anybody have any ideas how this is related to DrH's role? Maybe if we can figure that out we can confirm/deny DrH's claims. I seriously doubt there are clues in a previous games clueless day post to the true nature of my role. While it is obvious my role is inspired by this post, I think the most likely scenario is the one where Artanis was truthful in his role description. All possibilities must be considered, but we could have fun doing this to anybody and it doesn't really make me look bad, it just adds an extra degree of uncertainty. On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote:Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role: Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected. This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM. DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... VERY LIKELY? That's a bit of a stretch. I don't think we should be making conclusions about someones role, that supercede their role PM and description, based on metagaming and individual interpretations of the storyline of a previous game. Does this really seem like the sound and solid reasoning that helps the town? Is this the sort of logic that will "destroy my platform"? I'm sorry but this is absolutely absurd and I'm calling it out. Then DrH pretends to be notified. On October 30 2010 14:05 kingjames01 wrote:On October 30 2010 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote:Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role: Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected. This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM. DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified. You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta. I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme: - Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people And the storyline of my role is that with Bill Murray's death I was given new life and immunity to his disease. This is a very basic interpretation and it appears to be the one of Artanis, who is, by the way, the mod of this game. Not you. Your entirely subjective speculation about what my name could or couldn't mean in the vague context of a previous game is utterly USELESS especially given the fact that the possibility of myself being a plaguebearer can be checked. Not to mention the fact that it is impossible for me to currently be infected with M-Rus since the day post says NO ONE IS INFECTED WITH M-RUS.
Did we forget that? Currently, no one is a plaguebearer. This makes me think the role that spreads the disease is something like a mad scientist type role. He isn't infected per se, but has the ability to infect others. This is speculation on my part, but for now the safest assumption is that no one has M-Rus.
To jump from not really knowing anything about it to accusing me of being the M-Rus spreader when my role seems to be designed to everything but it, I have told a few ways in which this can be counteracted, I have offered my life to the town and the lives of those I confirm to in the case that I die and flip mafia, AND the fact that all of this speculation is based on "what if" dream scenarios and previous storylines I think it's safe to say that it is a pretty far out accusation. At best.On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet. If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you. You put the word PERSON in there yourself. You inserted that. That's not what Artanis said. That SCREAAAAAAAAAMS wordplay trickery to me.
If Artanis says no one is infect by M-Rus, why can't that mean no one is infected by M-Rus. So because no one is infected by M-Rus, I'm infected by M-Rus? Ridiculous. What should he have said? "No one and a stick has M-Rus yet?" This is baseless bullshit designed to make me look bad. That's all that is. This is garbage. On October 30 2010 14:27 infinitestory wrote:On October 30 2010 14:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 14:20 Coagulation wrote:On October 30 2010 14:05 kingjames01 wrote:On October 30 2010 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote:Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role: Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected. This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM. DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified. You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta. I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme: - Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet. If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you. the plot thickens. however i cant help but notice that he revealed his role honestly ( as far as we know it was pretty much confirmed by the fact that we found a logical link to it in another game that fits perfectly?) then there is still the chance hes mafia sticky. but I cant see a scum willingly giving up this kind of info like that. I hate the way drH plays but his story is starting to come together. i still worry that he is too fucking good at this game to chance him possibly gaining such an advantage as a red. again why would mafia have a sticky, a role clearly designed to stop the spread of m-rus, a disease that benefits mafia Even assuming what you've told us is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, there's an advantage in rallying the plague doctors to cure infected reds. I want to see something more well thought out, please~ This is true. I suppose if I were infected my reds only to have them immunized this would be an advantageous play if it weren't for the fact that I'd have to publicly out them and the pattern would be clear pretty quickly, leading to a swift kill of the entire mafia.
The issue with me being mafia is that no matter what happens I've put myself in a position where I must reveal my team to you over the course of the game while being put in a negligible position of power. This is not a rational mafia play which, all things considered, is pretty easy to see.@Meapak_Ziphh: I'm not considering whether "sticky" represents a m-itis infector or a m-itis stopper. I'm just presenting a possible scenario which, if nobody finds a way around it, compromises DrH's claim of 100% guaranteed proof of townieness. It doesn't bank on meta at all. Nothing is 100% in this game aside from whatever it is somebody flips at death. Unless there is a good neighbor type role, I still feel I have done the most to confirm myself to you guys as being pro-town. It's too bad the mafia have come out to smear me. On October 30 2010 14:44 Ace wrote:That doesn't confirm your alignment though On October 30 2010 14:59 orgolove wrote:-_- On October 30 2010 14:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote:Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role: Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected. This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM. here is my solution: if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely) I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis. If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke. this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out. does that make sense? And no, that won't work. In a game where we don't know how many plaguebearers there are, if the mafia ever has their own plague doctors, then the numbers can remain the same while the mafia "heals" one of their previous disease hits. I suppose there are an infinite number of scenarios in a game where we don't know somebodies role. I don't think endless hypothetical situations are really a point against me, but this is a good point.
The thing is, we know exactly how many plague-bearers there are at the beginning of each day. Again in this situation, I still have to out members of my team with my confirmation power and I've again made a terrible play for the mafia. If the mafia have plague doctors, then it is unlikely that mafia are the source of infection. I would say impossible. They would merely infect themselves and then immunize themselves and watch M-Rus take over the town and win the game. This is a bullshit scenario. Thus, not only is his ability, if true, unworthy of mayoral protection, we won't even be sure that he can reveal himself as a townie beyond doubt.I close this with one last thing I place under your consideration. The Town Mayor is a position of leadership. Both with his ability to immediately lynch 1 player, as well as his increased number of votes in the daily lynches, the mayor has a responsibility to take charge of the town and be a levelheaded leader who will not be guided by emotion. If we do get an experienced, well-intentioned and collected leader However, DoctorHelvetica has been increasingly emotional and defensive as questions against his alignment mounted. Because you hurt my feelings by calling me a liar when you couldn't back it up and insulting me for modding a game which I put a lot of work and my life into and that despite the mistakes I feel proud of. I think anyone could understand why that would upset me.On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
On October 30 2010 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: fair enough. I'm not the one starting the WIFOM bullshit. On October 30 2010 14:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: watch the mafia keep grasping at straws to try to make me look bad and red when I've done more to show i'm town than anyone in this game
and then they want to vote for pandain lololol DrH could not keep his cool when people merely questioned him during his candidacy. Can we truly trust him to lead the town as a mayor, unaffected by his personal bias? You merely questioned me? I like how you point out some of the things I said to you (which you never properly defended or refuted, because you can't) and then put it all in a big nice post of bullshit to make me look bad. This is called a chainsaw defense. Defending yourself by attacking your offender.
Why don't I point out the specific parts where you called me a liar based on misunderstandings and then ducked out of the spotlight? Because I'd like to get specific with my criticism, it'd be nice if you could too.On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky? Disproved this immediately. You never responded. However note that as soon as you thought I had messed up (because you didn't read the thread properly) you were extremely quick not only to call me "out" on it, but to rub a little dirt in my face and try to make me look as shitty as possible. This is not the post of someone who is interested in finding out the truth, this is the post of someone who wants to make me look like a liar whenever he can. It's all in the word choice.
Here is his response. Note how he responds carefully.On October 30 2010 14:28 orgolove wrote:On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky? In the words of Antoine Dodson "You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real." kingjames and infinitestory are merely speculating on the fact that my poke could infect them. however in my talks with artanis it is pretty clear the point of my role is to a. confirm my role to others and to b. tell who does and doesn't have murrayitis i was never told that i infect people with murrayitis and my understanding is that my role is designed to fight its spread you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand obviously mafia would be shitting their pants at the idea of electing me. it's suspicious to say the least. Anyone who was even remotely invested in the Haunted Mafia game would be horrified at the prospect of letting you become the Mayor after the way you completely screwed up the game in the final days. Gj killing one of the last 3 mafia, letting the vamps just stroll to victory -_- I have no interest in allowing someone who screws up in that magnitude in a job as the town mayor. Besides, if truly that's all you can do, I can hardly think the ability to check ONE player a day for a disease which doesn't even kill unless it's extensively spread to be the "SUPER IMPORTANT" role that you claimed as your role. Further, there is no way we will be able to confirm that your stick doesn't infect people - As kingjames has mentioned, if your stick is "dirty," you can simply claim whoever you infected the first night to have "turned up as infected" in your "check". Then you can just let the other blues check on him, further confirming your "innoc Part 1: insult me
2: discredit my role
3: try to discredit me based on a hypothetical and no real reason or logic
Well, as though that weren't enough this isn't the first time he tried to make me look like a liar and it was AGAIN based on a misunderstanding.On October 30 2010 10:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 09:54 orgolove wrote:On October 30 2010 09:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 09:47 orgolove wrote:On October 30 2010 09:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On October 30 2010 09:36 orgolove wrote:On October 30 2010 09:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On October 30 2010 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: [quote] Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this. The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement. It'll do you well to not to blatantly lie about rules that can be easily clarified by a single PM for the coming game -_- I really do not know where I supposedly lied regarding this. If you could quote that message I can apologize for it, but I am currently unaware of it. Sorry, that was directed to DrH, not you. If you could do the same and point out where I lied that would be great thanks On October 30 2010 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this. On October 30 2010 09:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement. I can't trust someone who's so "free" with his supposed" facts." You're bad He said that after I posted and asked him to confirm it. Why would I "lie" and then ask the mod to confirm my lie as being false immediately afterward. I even went as far as to qualify what I was saying. I remembered wrong. Good thing I had the good sense to ask artanis to confirm it and qualify my statement before I tried to pass it off as a fact huh? That's about all I have to say. You want to criticize me based on past games and say I can't be trusted? How about the time where you took it upon yourself to organize a huge spreadsheet of "facts" that were half wrong? Or the part where you called me out on mistakes that I didn't even make.
Or the two times in this thread you called me out on lies I never told.
Or the times all of your "great accusations" were nonsense. Overreaction? No, I'm not overreacting. I smell bullshit and I'm calling it out.
I already posted what I thought about that post from orgo, even before you responded to it actually. Not sure you saw it, but I basically agreed with you.
On October 31 2010 00:22 jcarlsoniv wrote:I apologize, mods and orgolove, I did not mean to get into personal attacks myself. I'm sorry for attacking and being a hypocrite. That being said, orgolove, that is a good, constructive analysis that can generate discussion, and discussion we shall have! Show nested quote +It is not a decision to be made lightly. If we select a mafia into the position, it would be a disaster of cosmic proportions. Conversely, if we select an important blue into the position, the town will be much closer to victory. Agreed, it is a decision that needs to be taken heavily into consideration. Electing a Scum-Mayor would suck, but I don't think it's quite as disastrous as you make it out to be. It will give the Mafia a bit more pull and influence, yes, but as long as we don't trust the Mayor completely blindly, we can limit that influence. And yes, a blue as Mayor is always good. THESIS: So it raises the question, are the benefits greater than the risks? Show nested quote +So let me reiterate. According to his own descriptions, DrH can check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis.
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately. Rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
You decide - is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person ONE night, in a 40 person game, so important that it requires the protection afforded to a mayor? This is not all completely true. M-itis does not rely solely on the controlled spread of the Mafia. It is "highly contagious" and will spread to anyone in contact with infected persons. So, if an infected blue watches or investigates, etc. (depending on roles in the game) a Mafia, that Mafia member is also infected. I think some people are forgetting that the Mafia is also at risk to die once the M-itis pops. Proposed Scenarios: 1. Dr.H is elected and is Town: Having someone who can combat the spread of M-itis while being immune to it (without Plague Doctor protection) and immune to night kills (while bodyguards are alive) is, I believe, very important in this particular game. He can then find out who has M-itis (and simultaneously, his role will be PMd to the poke-ey) and direct the Plague Doctors to give them immunity. 2. Dr.H is elected and is Mafia: He could do all this fake claiming and elaborate planning to get Mafia members to fake his claims. However, this has a couple issues which Dr.H has elaborated on many many times. Would a Mafia really put his neck out there THIS far just to gain night immunity and an extra vote? If there are any blue roles that can kill, it would be much better for the Mafia to remain unsuspected at all, because aside from a lynch, the Mafia won't get killed at night (unless there are blue kills or M-itis). Additionally, if Dr.H had multiple scumbuddies faking his claim for the ruse, well then every time, he has outed a friend, because you can be damn sure that whoever he pokes and comes forward will be scrutinized and probably DT checked. And if we believe that Dr.H is being very scummy, we lynch. The loss of the Mayor would really suck though. I believe it is, in fact, VERY important to be checking, one-by-one who has M-itis. That is probably the biggest threat in the game (only "probably" because of lack of known roles). Show nested quote +Next, to support his second point, he continued from his roleclaim and declared that by "poking" someone the first night and having the target confirm the event, he will definitely be shown as a blue.
Considering the number of unknowns in this game, there are so many potential traps in here that we can't possibly trust this. And apparently I'm not the only one to pick up on it. Just to name a few: I believe this could be said about any of the candidates. There are so many potential traps with electing any good player to be Mayor. We can't possibly trust anyone in the game, as is the nature of Mafia. Show nested quote +I close this with one last thing I place under your consideration. The Town Mayor is a position of leadership. Both with his ability to immediately lynch 1 player, as well as his increased number of votes in the daily lynches, the mayor has a responsibility to take charge of the town and be a levelheaded leader who will not be guided by emotion.
If we do get an experienced, well-intentioned and collected leader
However, DoctorHelvetica has been increasingly emotional and defensive as questions against his alignment mounted. Show nested quote +DrH could not keep his cool when people merely questioned him during his candidacy. Can we truly trust him to lead the town as a mayor, unaffected by his personal bias? I do somewhat agree with you here, but only on the part where Dr.H has gotten increasingly emotional as the thread went on. We do need a Mayor who is a good leader and can take the responsibility of the position. However, I'm not sure I see the other candidates being able to do it as effectively. In my opinion, Dr.H has kept his cool fairly well. He has been stable throughout this game. Dr.H is a very responsible and experienced player, and he has proven himself as a leader, even amongst all of the questioning. I would say that he has been so emotional (I see it as frustrated rather than emotional) because he had said the same things over and over for multiple pages. His campaign has been concrete this whole time, and he offers a lot to the town, with relatively low gain for scum if he is Mafia. In conclusion, I believe that the election of Dr.H grants more benefits to the town than possible risks if he were Mafia. I think he is a smart choice because of his ability to combat the disease that will most likely destroy many players. The longer we can keep the M-itis explosion at bay, the better off the town will be, and Dr.H's role seems to lend itself very well to that ability.
While I do find him scummy, I'm not sure he should be a Day1 lynch. If we watch him over the next Day or two, we may be able to figure more out about him.
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