+ Show Spoiler +
1st post
It is a good spot, aprudds. We should keep an eye on freeloader625.
Jimbooo, we do have to lynch somebody. Being "hasty" isn't really a concern. And somebody with next to no evidence against them is a better lynch than everyone else with no evidence against them at all. Still, 48 hours yet.
Jimbooo, we do have to lynch somebody. Being "hasty" isn't really a concern. And somebody with next to no evidence against them is a better lynch than everyone else with no evidence against them at all. Still, 48 hours yet.
Or you can wait for another 30 hours, once cases developed more. Very scummish materials here.
2nd post
As I said earlier, "we should keep an eye on Freeloader". But that's it. There will certainly be much more conversation before the end of the first day.
A few thoughts:
There are 8 mafia but do we know how much killing power they have? If 6 normally get 3 kills/night would it be sensible to extrapolate that 8 get 4?
A few thoughts:
There are 8 mafia but do we know how much killing power they have? If 6 normally get 3 kills/night would it be sensible to extrapolate that 8 get 4?
Where did the number 6 come from? Unless he had some experience playing as mafia before, I do not see where 6 came from. He also forgets about lynching someone with little info when he reiterates his “keep eye” part.
3rd post
On June 05 2011 15:24 omgCRAZY wrote:
That is true. I have only looked over one other Mafia game so I don't have a lot of experience if players vote and unvote a lot over the course of a day or not, after the few responses we got from Freelancer265 I did do an EBWOP saying how his subsequent responses added to his suspicion.
Either this should be linked in the first few posts or people should start saying what their acronyms mean when they first use them. They only make things faster if they're understood.
And yeah - freeloader's first post was only mildly suspicious (although it was mildly suspicious) but his subsequent ones were rather more so. Also, he's probably still online and they're currently the best we have to go on. So I'm gonna vote but change in the next 24 hours or so if someone more suspicious comes up.
I suspect that most of the mafia are gonna be trying to lay low, post only "check-in" posts and whatnot. So keep your eyes peeled for that sort of thing - although, early on, that kinda posting might just mean its midnight and people want to go to bed (so gtsrs and 35spike1 are off the hook for now).
That is true. I have only looked over one other Mafia game so I don't have a lot of experience if players vote and unvote a lot over the course of a day or not, after the few responses we got from Freelancer265 I did do an EBWOP saying how his subsequent responses added to his suspicion.
Either this should be linked in the first few posts or people should start saying what their acronyms mean when they first use them. They only make things faster if they're understood.
And yeah - freeloader's first post was only mildly suspicious (although it was mildly suspicious) but his subsequent ones were rather more so. Also, he's probably still online and they're currently the best we have to go on. So I'm gonna vote but change in the next 24 hours or so if someone more suspicious comes up.
I suspect that most of the mafia are gonna be trying to lay low, post only "check-in" posts and whatnot. So keep your eyes peeled for that sort of thing - although, early on, that kinda posting might just mean its midnight and people want to go to bed (so gtsrs and 35spike1 are off the hook for now).
Huh, the nature of the posts are starting to become even more scummy. Freeloader’s first post seems only a bit suspicious, but why then vote already? Kurumi was rampaging, we still had people who didn’t vote yet, and he picks freeloader to vote for. He states that mafia are going to make “check-in” posts to seem active, and makes gtrsrs and 35spike1 seem like accomplices.
4th post
On June 05 2011 15:36 iGrok wrote:
Those people who have already voted are acting too hastily.
Is it really too hasty if you plan on (probably) changing your vote? I'm honestly asking. Also, you sound like you're aomewhat experienced, is that right?
Those people who have already voted are acting too hastily.
Is it really too hasty if you plan on (probably) changing your vote? I'm honestly asking. Also, you sound like you're aomewhat experienced, is that right?
He seems to think that iGrok has experience playing in these kinds of events but he’s avoiding the fact that iGrok is trying to investigate into him. A bit scummy imo.
5th post
On June 05 2011 18:31 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +
No. Scum wants Town to mislynch. Scum wants Town not to think about other suspects. Scum wants to make Town jump on one bandwagon and deny EVERY discussion about anything else. They are doing that,not only but they're advocating that as a good thing.
With regards to the Freeloader situation:
a. read the posts. I wasn't advocating mislynching. Lafali, admittedly, somewhat was:
On June 05 2011 15:16 Lafali wrote:
Show nested quote +
His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours.
b. As far as "not thinking about other suspects" there WERE no other suspects, this was page one and noone else seemed remotely scummy.
c. there wasn't discussion about anything else and nobody was stopping anybody from talking about anything.
So freeloader got accused on questionable evidence, and then defended himself in a somewhat suspicious fashion. So a couple of noobies (myself included) voted for him early on.
And the Kurumi comes in and makes up shit about what we're doing that has only a grain of truth in it, and treats myself and Lafali (who both voted for freeloader) as proven scum based on 2 and 4 posts (or so). Then, later, Vain posts
+ Show Spoiler +
pointing out that Kurumi's being silly so Kurumi replies with
On June 06 2011 00:27 Kurumi wrote:
@Vain
Let aprudds defend himself.
which is dumb because a. nobody was talking about aprudds - his only relation was that he had been suspicious of freeloader (presumably Kurumi meant me or Lafali, but why conflate us?). And b. an argument is an argument, no matter who it comes from.
Either Kurumi is paranoid or he's scum defending scum, trying to derail any argument against freeloader. I'm leaning towards the former, because apparently he has a history of being like this, but a DT should check him out tonight.
Leaving my vote on freeloader 'cause there's noone with a better case against them. That doesn't speak to strength of the case against freeloader but rather to the weakness of any other case. (not voting Kurumi 'cause if he is scum, then freeloader probably is too).
Show nested quote +
No. Scum wants Town to mislynch. Scum wants Town not to think about other suspects. Scum wants to make Town jump on one bandwagon and deny EVERY discussion about anything else. They are doing that,not only but they're advocating that as a good thing.
With regards to the Freeloader situation:
a. read the posts. I wasn't advocating mislynching. Lafali, admittedly, somewhat was:
On June 05 2011 15:16 Lafali wrote:
Show nested quote +
His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours.
b. As far as "not thinking about other suspects" there WERE no other suspects, this was page one and noone else seemed remotely scummy.
c. there wasn't discussion about anything else and nobody was stopping anybody from talking about anything.
So freeloader got accused on questionable evidence, and then defended himself in a somewhat suspicious fashion. So a couple of noobies (myself included) voted for him early on.
And the Kurumi comes in and makes up shit about what we're doing that has only a grain of truth in it, and treats myself and Lafali (who both voted for freeloader) as proven scum based on 2 and 4 posts (or so). Then, later, Vain posts
+ Show Spoiler +
pointing out that Kurumi's being silly so Kurumi replies with
On June 06 2011 00:27 Kurumi wrote:
@Vain
Let aprudds defend himself.
which is dumb because a. nobody was talking about aprudds - his only relation was that he had been suspicious of freeloader (presumably Kurumi meant me or Lafali, but why conflate us?). And b. an argument is an argument, no matter who it comes from.
Either Kurumi is paranoid or he's scum defending scum, trying to derail any argument against freeloader. I'm leaning towards the former, because apparently he has a history of being like this, but a DT should check him out tonight.
Leaving my vote on freeloader 'cause there's noone with a better case against them. That doesn't speak to strength of the case against freeloader but rather to the weakness of any other case. (not voting Kurumi 'cause if he is scum, then freeloader probably is too).
This is his response to Kurumi’s attack on him. In the first paragraph, smart players could pick up that there were a couple other suspicious people, but he didn’t, then states that he is a noob.Stating that he is a noob is going to be very important as to my final verdict on him. He however notes that the case against freeloader is weak, but then why did he vote in the 1st place then?
6th post
o.O?
Is he confused about why there needs to be a lynch everyday or what? I do not understand this face here.
7th post
Sorry, I should've spelled it out a bit better. I say there needs to be a lynch, so we have to start looking for scum and voting where there's the best case. So Kurumi calls me scum. Then he goes to make a very similar argument. Just juxtaposing the two posts.
Circular and ambigious statements are made here. He states that there needs to be a lynch when he was confused about it in his last post. Also, he says that we have to start looking for scum, when he already voted on freeloader. Very scummy.
8th post
On June 06 2011 09:02 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Says the person with only 1 post so far?
Crazy actually has a couple of posts from last night. Use the profile button. Check post history. You both are saying a whole lot of nothing (although, there isn't really much to say this early).
Show nested quote +
Says the person with only 1 post so far?
Crazy actually has a couple of posts from last night. Use the profile button. Check post history. You both are saying a whole lot of nothing (although, there isn't really much to say this early).
Indirectly defending Crazy’s ideas by making a theory that quantity equals validity.
9th post
On June 06 2011 11:41 Aril wrote:
Heya, I don't think I'll be on tomorrow so I'm voting now.
Care to explain your vote at all?
Heya, I don't think I'll be on tomorrow so I'm voting now.
Care to explain your vote at all?
Reasonable question to ask, Aril is seeming like a lurker to me.
10th post
One really big point - if you're going to quote a really long post it'd be great if you could put it in spoiler tags (just a formatting issue but helps to clean up the page a fair bit). Meaning you, iGrok.
@CjrNinja
Can you confirm that the role PM for mafia members spells out that mafia can communicate by PM? If this is true than obviously mafia wouldn't post that question and I'll change my vote from freeloader. Otherwise, though, he seems even more scummy to me now. I didn't vote for him cause he asked a silly question, it was how he replied to scrutiny. Since then, he hasn't posted in the thread at all. And I can confirm that he's been on TL - check his post history, he's posted a whole bunch in today's MLG live report. Either he's scum and waiting for suspicion to die down or he's town and has given up and resigned himself to getting lynched.
@CjrNinja
Can you confirm that the role PM for mafia members spells out that mafia can communicate by PM? If this is true than obviously mafia wouldn't post that question and I'll change my vote from freeloader. Otherwise, though, he seems even more scummy to me now. I didn't vote for him cause he asked a silly question, it was how he replied to scrutiny. Since then, he hasn't posted in the thread at all. And I can confirm that he's been on TL - check his post history, he's posted a whole bunch in today's MLG live report. Either he's scum and waiting for suspicion to die down or he's town and has given up and resigned himself to getting lynched.
Why did he pick CjrNinja to ask that question? He could have just pmed a mod or Blue texted his question, but he asks a buddy to do so. He states that He didn’t vote for freeloader because he seemed silly, but because of the responses. He was one of the first to vote for Freeloader and his earlier posts stated that he thought freeloader was scum, so he just voted right away. If that isn’t indication that treadmill is a mafia, then I am 2 feet tall.
11th post
+ Show Spoiler +
Hrrrm. That doesn't stop him from being lazy mafia. If mafia members received the info about being allowed to PM in their role PM, then only town wouldn't definitely know that and so only a town would ask. BUT if the information is not explicit in the role PMs, then town and mafia could equally easily not know (and not read fully the OP) and so someone asking could still be either. Does that make sense?
I guess the only people who'd know for certain which it is would be the mafia (who won't show us their role PM to prove it) and the mods (who won't say cause it'd affect the game). Doesn't escape the fact that freeloader, who has been in the lead to be lynched, has been online without posting here at all. Which makes me suspicious.
Hrrrm. That doesn't stop him from being lazy mafia. If mafia members received the info about being allowed to PM in their role PM, then only town wouldn't definitely know that and so only a town would ask. BUT if the information is not explicit in the role PMs, then town and mafia could equally easily not know (and not read fully the OP) and so someone asking could still be either. Does that make sense?
I guess the only people who'd know for certain which it is would be the mafia (who won't show us their role PM to prove it) and the mods (who won't say cause it'd affect the game). Doesn't escape the fact that freeloader, who has been in the lead to be lynched, has been online without posting here at all. Which makes me suspicious.
This feels like more of a copypasta idea rather than something new, as he is just reposting the rules of the game. He twists the statements to make himself look good, but we know he is scummy.
Post 12 is a EBWOP.
13th post
@CjrNinja
Okay, fair enough. I'll unvote freeloader for now.
A bunch of other names have come up, with better or worse cases against them Here's what I think:
Jimbooo - seems more inexperienced than scum. I think that's the consensus so let's focus on other people.
cherubael - I do not understand people's suspicion of him (literally don't understand. If you're voting him, please explain why). Kairo voted for him but even seemed confused in his post:
+ Show Spoiler +
TheAwesomeAll - I don't really understand the case against him either. He posted a list of lurkers. Yay. But he also addressed the only thing that had been discussed up until then (freeloader). I don't think its fair to say someone's trying to post while avoiding talking substantively when there's not really any substance to talk about anyways.
amazingxkcd - the case against him is mostly this post:
On June 06 2011 02:56 amazingxkcd wrote:
It is quite clear that it can be seen who are the main talkers for both side. The only question is now how to distinguish between the two sides and how to act upon it
which is admittedly - weird. Reposting the "newbie guides" was in response to a question by rookie44. I want to see more of his posts and how he votes, to get a better sense of him.
Lafali - saying "its OK to mislynch" could be scummy or it could be his honest opinion. Without knowing any playing history I don't think its possible to tell.
grush57 - he has a better case against him than most others. Saying
On June 06 2011 04:12 grush57 wrote:
Im not inactive, I just dont feel like anybody can accuse this early.
and then joining the fl625 bandwagon and saying
On June 06 2011 04:21 grush57 wrote:
Yea true, I stupidly joined the bandwagon to lynch freeloader from his posts.
seems more than a bit weird. Also he hasn't really offered his opinion on anything - those two posts are literally all that he said on freeloader despite voting for him. Alderan made a decent case a little while ago.
_________________________________________________
I'm not sorry for "bandwagonning" freeloader early on 'cause we got some discussion going and got people posting (which is always good for the town). And I still think there's a decent case against him.
Two people I think need to talk more are Benjef who voted, then changed his vote, then made one post about it without really saying anything, and Aril, who voted Kurumi and only said
On June 06 2011 11:41 Aril wrote:
Heya, I don't think I'll be on tomorrow so I'm voting now.
by way of explanation.
I will post the biggest thing here, and it has to do with him wanting me to defend myself. THE ONLY EVIDENCE HE HAS AGAINST ME IS MY 1ST POST AND I EXPLAINED THAT POST IN MY ANALYSIS OF ALDERAN. You will see why that will be important.
14th post
I was about to EBWOP that I think that grush57 was our best lynch. But then freeloader625 posted again. I waited a bit to see if he had any more to say. He didn't, and I'm even more convinced that we should lynch him.
First off, its a big long post showing he's been paying attention to the thread. But he doesn't address anything except the arguments against him. That, in my mind, is the biggest strike against him - if he was town, he'd be concerned with more than just his own survival, he'd want to find out who the mafia are. If he was a good town player he'd talk about some of the other accusations, some of the other discussions - especially since he's indicated that he's been following the thread. And also because, if you look at the last few pages, he hasn't been suspect number one for a while.
Second, freeloader625 sounds like he's trying really hard to sound unconcerned about the allegations against him. That doesn't jive with writing a big post that has no purpose other than defending himself. He's trying to defend himself without sounding like he's defending himself (mostly by jumping on DeMorcerf's and CjrNinja's explanations without really providing his own) - a scummy play for sure.
What do I honestly think and why haven't I really commented even though I threw myself under the bus? I'll give a longer explanation come closer to Day 1's end. Har har har, another "bad defensive" post by me :D Take it as you may.
I take it as meaning: freeloader625, you are scum. So I'm gonna put that vote I just took off of you back on.
First off, its a big long post showing he's been paying attention to the thread. But he doesn't address anything except the arguments against him. That, in my mind, is the biggest strike against him - if he was town, he'd be concerned with more than just his own survival, he'd want to find out who the mafia are. If he was a good town player he'd talk about some of the other accusations, some of the other discussions - especially since he's indicated that he's been following the thread. And also because, if you look at the last few pages, he hasn't been suspect number one for a while.
Second, freeloader625 sounds like he's trying really hard to sound unconcerned about the allegations against him. That doesn't jive with writing a big post that has no purpose other than defending himself. He's trying to defend himself without sounding like he's defending himself (mostly by jumping on DeMorcerf's and CjrNinja's explanations without really providing his own) - a scummy play for sure.
What do I honestly think and why haven't I really commented even though I threw myself under the bus? I'll give a longer explanation come closer to Day 1's end. Har har har, another "bad defensive" post by me :D Take it as you may.
I take it as meaning: freeloader625, you are scum. So I'm gonna put that vote I just took off of you back on.
He changes his vote back to freeloader because he doesn’t think there is anyone else to go after. He wants to bring up freeloader because freeloader fell out of the spotlight.
15th post
First, Kurumi, i'd agree that he's a good target for a DT check. (Actually, I argued for that around 5 pages ago but iGrok laid it out much better). And also, either he's scum or a lousy townie. I can buy that some people might think that throwing around wild accusations to provoke a response might be a good idea, but I couldn't disagree more. Especially allegations based on made-up stuff.
I'd tend to agree with the points that omgCrazy made with regards to gtsrs - iGrok. Laying out how many possible blues there are isn't fishing for blues by any stretch of the imagination. gtsrs looks a little scummy - though he could just be dumb. They could both be town, or it could be iGrok town and gtsrs mafia, I don't see it the other way around. The one little worry I have is that BOTH might be mafia and pulling a total mental mindfuck on us.
Lastly:
+ Show Spoiler +
A. Why is freeloader obviously town? You throw that out there without any back-up. I admit (and have admitted) that myself and a few others were very hasty and did bandwagon him early on - because of inexperience. But there's been nothing since to exonerate him.
B. Your argument against iGrok is "vote for him and he'll drop scumtells". Which is stupid - he's an experienced player, that's not gonna happen.
C. You haven't actually addressed any of his arguments about Kurumi, you've just said "he's a good guy, trust me I know, and since iGrok fingered him iGrok must be scum!"
I'd tend to agree with the points that omgCrazy made with regards to gtsrs - iGrok. Laying out how many possible blues there are isn't fishing for blues by any stretch of the imagination. gtsrs looks a little scummy - though he could just be dumb. They could both be town, or it could be iGrok town and gtsrs mafia, I don't see it the other way around. The one little worry I have is that BOTH might be mafia and pulling a total mental mindfuck on us.
Lastly:
+ Show Spoiler +
A. Why is freeloader obviously town? You throw that out there without any back-up. I admit (and have admitted) that myself and a few others were very hasty and did bandwagon him early on - because of inexperience. But there's been nothing since to exonerate him.
B. Your argument against iGrok is "vote for him and he'll drop scumtells". Which is stupid - he's an experienced player, that's not gonna happen.
C. You haven't actually addressed any of his arguments about Kurumi, you've just said "he's a good guy, trust me I know, and since iGrok fingered him iGrok must be scum!"
He admits that he was a bit hasty, but then he just said that there is no concrete evidence to lynch freeloader. HIS LAST POST SAID HE WAS GOING TO LYNCH FREELOADER. 2 posts together, and we get this clear juxtaposition. Mafia he is.
16th post.
Just a point
I just woke up, and am reading the thread (that explains my recent inactivity).
I'm reading the thread and will have something to post once I'm done.
I just woke up, and am reading the thread (that explains my recent inactivity).
I'm reading the thread and will have something to post once I'm done.
He just said that he is reading the thread twice. That’s an English error right there. Let’s see what his next post is to combat his lack of recent posting.
17th post
Firstly, there's something for me to quote from Ver's analysis of Mafia XXX:
Now, what if by some miracle, Youngminii was lynched and flipped green, or worse, vigilante? What would that have said about Foolishness? Think hard and carefully here, because this is a logic issue that really has plagued the town in so many TL games, especially this one. At its core is the question: what does "lynching for information" actually mean?
The lynch outcome alone would have said nothing about Foolishness! If Foolishness is veteran, how does he have any definite knowledge of what Youngminii is? He doesn't, therefore he can only do his best and try to figure out YM's role from the tools he has. That in itself does not distinguish him from Godfather Foolishness one bit. The key distinction between the two is to look at how he got Youngminii lynched and his overall play, not that he got Youngminii lynched. The latter fact, while not entirely irrelevant, is nowhere near sufficient enough on its own to warrant a lynch (and everyone knows if YM had popped up vigi Foolishness would've been autokilled the next day).
Thus it would be nonsensical to lynch YM because you think it will give the most information (the information is next to useless). The only reason to lynch YM, or virtually anyone ever, is to kill mafia. That's it.
There's a lot of wrong-headed thinking going around this game and I want to try and address some of it.
A. as the quote above says, if Mr X accuses Mr Y and Mr Y is lynched and flips town, it doesn't say anything about Mr X. He could be mafia, or he could've made an honest mistake and be town.
B. related to [A], look at the content of people's arguments, not just who they're accusing! If someone accuses someone else with a decent explanation, than even if you disagree with his arguments he probably isn't mafia. It's more suspicious if the reasoning is crappy, though even then you may have misunderstood the reasons or the accuser may be a newbie or a moron.
C. if someone changes their mind, they could be mafia. Or they could've just changed their mind. Again, read their posts. Look for their reasoning - and it could make sense to the poster even if it doesn't to you.
People need to start reading posts more, and listening to peoples arguments rather than making their own (I'm as guilty as anyone on that). The town loses if we're all paranoid and flaming each other.
By his reasoning, he is mafia then. He just said it himself, he is mafia.
18th post
On June 07 2011 06:03 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
You his scum buddy?
Oh god dammit Jackal, don't even start there. Don't accuse someone of being scum just because he disagrees with you. I do too, for that matter. Until we hear more from rookie44, see how (and when) he votes, there really isn't enough to say (well, imo).
Show nested quote +
You his scum buddy?
Oh god dammit Jackal, don't even start there. Don't accuse someone of being scum just because he disagrees with you. I do too, for that matter. Until we hear more from rookie44, see how (and when) he votes, there really isn't enough to say (well, imo).
“I do too, for that matter”. I do not understand the context of this sentence and what part it’s referring to. He is waiting for rookie’s responses.
19th post
Alternately rookie44 is blue. Let's see: trying not to be noticed, yeah. Mafia or blue. Interested in what blues have to say, well, OK. Not really blue fishing - more interested in talking about the strategy for what our blues should be doing. That's my read on rookie44, a newbie blue.
I didn't want to out him cause if I'm right I painted a big, fat target on his back. But there's all of a sudden a bandwagon building on him, and with how spread out our votes are the mafia will be able to easily swing a lynch.
I didn't want to out him cause if I'm right I painted a big, fat target on his back. But there's all of a sudden a bandwagon building on him, and with how spread out our votes are the mafia will be able to easily swing a lynch.
Good call, you caught a medic there! You stated that he is a newb blue, so it means that you are not worried about what he could do. Why else would you have such a casual tone?
20th post
I absolutely don't buy the "hunting for blues" nonsense on rookie44. I don't see at all how what he's been saying could lead to blues revealing themselves - one of the people voting for him should lay out the case a bit better.
On June 07 2011 06:01 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
We'll start with the post I linked:
Show nested quote +
My analysis in red.
This guy is scum.
Point by point:
1. Irrelevant. And battle.net mafia is EXTREMELY different from this.
2. No, he isn't asking people to post their roles. He's asking what people think good strategy for blues would be - which is a reasonable question from town and even more sensible for a blue poster.
3. Alternately, he's honestly a newbie asking experienced players what they think we should be doing.
4. Or, he's giving his reason, as a townie, for asking.
The "analysis" is bullshit. This is bandwagonning at its WORST.
On June 07 2011 06:01 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
We'll start with the post I linked:
Show nested quote +
My analysis in red.
This guy is scum.
Point by point:
1. Irrelevant. And battle.net mafia is EXTREMELY different from this.
2. No, he isn't asking people to post their roles. He's asking what people think good strategy for blues would be - which is a reasonable question from town and even more sensible for a blue poster.
3. Alternately, he's honestly a newbie asking experienced players what they think we should be doing.
4. Or, he's giving his reason, as a townie, for asking.
The "analysis" is bullshit. This is bandwagonning at its WORST.
Well, you are only now starting to act like a townsfolk. We know battle.net mafia is different, no need to state that. He’s a newb, and you are taking advantage of him. Only now should you have to find other people to vote for so that you don’t look like mafia.
21st post
On June 07 2011 08:56 Impervious wrote:
Show nested quote +
If this was a day 2 or later lynch, I'd expect something more convincing. But it's not. If you have a better idea, I'd like to hear it.
Almost anyone else would be a better idea. I'm just bothered that wll of a sudden a bunch of people (xkcd, Kurumi, Senj) are jumping on voting for a guy, a handful of hours before the lynch. Especially considering:
Senj is a lurker who's posted the bare minimum to be considered active
amazingxkcd who's posted a whole lot of nothing - his only contributions have been posting one-liners about why other people's ideas are bad
Kurumi - who's been posting a lot, and insanely aggressively, and accusing everyone flat-out of being scum, but when he decides who to vote for he posts a chort and uncertain post wihtout really explaining.
It just seems like the analysis is a lot worse on this case than it has been on a bunch of others - but a couple people started voting for him and set a bandwagon rolling.
As for scummiest posts, I still haven't seen anything to top this:
On June 06 2011 14:21 freeloader625 wrote:
It's true. I spent most of the weekend watching MLG, both streams.
I was keeping an eye on this for all mirror matches though, I just chose not to comment.
Show nested quote +
Yes, I'm ashamed to admit I let pages 2-8 or 9 go without reading it, I assumed it was all just full of "/in's." I only read the first post and posts since the game has officially started.
Show nested quote +
Ohhh dirtay! I didn't not realize outside posts were fair game for this! I was under the impression (initially) that you can't click on ppls profiles/outside posts to avoid cheating or w/e. But I guess that's fair game.
What do I honestly think and why haven't I really commented even though I threw myself under the bus? I'll give a longer explanation come closer to Day 1's end. Har har har, another "bad defensive" post by me :D Take it as you may.
Show nested quote +
If this was a day 2 or later lynch, I'd expect something more convincing. But it's not. If you have a better idea, I'd like to hear it.
Almost anyone else would be a better idea. I'm just bothered that wll of a sudden a bunch of people (xkcd, Kurumi, Senj) are jumping on voting for a guy, a handful of hours before the lynch. Especially considering:
Senj is a lurker who's posted the bare minimum to be considered active
amazingxkcd who's posted a whole lot of nothing - his only contributions have been posting one-liners about why other people's ideas are bad
Kurumi - who's been posting a lot, and insanely aggressively, and accusing everyone flat-out of being scum, but when he decides who to vote for he posts a chort and uncertain post wihtout really explaining.
It just seems like the analysis is a lot worse on this case than it has been on a bunch of others - but a couple people started voting for him and set a bandwagon rolling.
As for scummiest posts, I still haven't seen anything to top this:
On June 06 2011 14:21 freeloader625 wrote:
It's true. I spent most of the weekend watching MLG, both streams.
I was keeping an eye on this for all mirror matches though, I just chose not to comment.
Show nested quote +
Yes, I'm ashamed to admit I let pages 2-8 or 9 go without reading it, I assumed it was all just full of "/in's." I only read the first post and posts since the game has officially started.
Show nested quote +
Ohhh dirtay! I didn't not realize outside posts were fair game for this! I was under the impression (initially) that you can't click on ppls profiles/outside posts to avoid cheating or w/e. But I guess that's fair game.
What do I honestly think and why haven't I really commented even though I threw myself under the bus? I'll give a longer explanation come closer to Day 1's end. Har har har, another "bad defensive" post by me :D Take it as you may.
Jumping back on freeloader now. He lists of people who posted a lot and contributed, but attempted to put them down. Also, he did not read the rules completely, otherwise he would have known about looking at posting history.
22nd post is an EBWOP
23rd post
Another interesting point: Jackal58 makes his case against rookie44, it's pretty weak, the people posting aren't convinced. Nobody but him votes for rookie44. Then an hour later
On June 07 2011 06:28 Kurumi wrote:
##unvote
##vote: Rookie44
On June 07 2011 06:29 Senj wrote:
##vote: Rookie44
On June 07 2011 06:31 amazingxkcd wrote:
##VOTE: Rookie44
Look at the time stamps, within 3 minutes of each other. And none of them posted for 2 hours previous to bandwagonning rookie. It looks liek co-ordination.
On June 07 2011 06:28 Kurumi wrote:
##unvote
##vote: Rookie44
On June 07 2011 06:29 Senj wrote:
##vote: Rookie44
On June 07 2011 06:31 amazingxkcd wrote:
##VOTE: Rookie44
Look at the time stamps, within 3 minutes of each other. And none of them posted for 2 hours previous to bandwagonning rookie. It looks liek co-ordination.
He discovers the time stamp vote scandal. He states that Jackal’s case is bad.
24th post
@iGrok: we're talking about amazingxkcd, Kurumi, and Senj who all out of the blue voted for rookie44 at the same time.
I don;t think that jackal is scum, I think that he believes he has a case against rookie44.
I'm not totally convinced on those three but considering that there're are already suspicions about Kurumi and amazingxkcd and that Senj has been a lurker it looks really suspicious.
I don;t think that jackal is scum, I think that he believes he has a case against rookie44.
I'm not totally convinced on those three but considering that there're are already suspicions about Kurumi and amazingxkcd and that Senj has been a lurker it looks really suspicious.
He starts to accuse the 3 and now defends Jackal’s post while saying that he thinks jackal isn’t scum. Where is his proof for that?
25th post is about him referring from a guide stating that lynching for information is bad, despite him wanting to do it.
26th post is something random, disregard.
27th post
On June 07 2011 06:34 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
You seem to be in a position to defend rookie44 when he has made quite a lot of scummy posts, particularly trying to take advantage of noobs to slip up their roles with
Show nested quote +
Also, notices how already from the start of the game, he is asking for roles and wanted to lynch Treadmill without any sound proof besides making a suggestion about the freeloader wagon being loaded with mafias
Show nested quote +
Here, he is making assumptions about what the mafia should do, which is trying to divert attention away from him.
Show nested quote +
for these reasons and the ones given by jackal58 as well as kurumi, i am voting for Rookie44 on the basis of clear scummy post and trying to divert attention away from himself with circular logic
##Vote: Rookie44
also alderan, I am very suspicious of you for trying to defend this guy. Elaborate as to why you think he is not a scum.
And this, here, is amazingxkcd's analysis of rookie44.
There's the line about "trying to divert attention away from himself" when rookie's post was waaay before there WAS any attention on him. Also, the point about "asking for roles" is bullshit - he was asking what we thought blues should do, which is very different.
Also, Alderan basically says "rookie seems little scummy but I'm not convinced" and xkcd starts attacking him. That and the co-ordinated timing of the votes (which is enough evidence by itself, for me), and earlier stuff posted by Alderan. Also this stupid rookie bandwagon. amazingxkcd looks very very red.
Show nested quote +
You seem to be in a position to defend rookie44 when he has made quite a lot of scummy posts, particularly trying to take advantage of noobs to slip up their roles with
Show nested quote +
Also, notices how already from the start of the game, he is asking for roles and wanted to lynch Treadmill without any sound proof besides making a suggestion about the freeloader wagon being loaded with mafias
Show nested quote +
Here, he is making assumptions about what the mafia should do, which is trying to divert attention away from him.
Show nested quote +
for these reasons and the ones given by jackal58 as well as kurumi, i am voting for Rookie44 on the basis of clear scummy post and trying to divert attention away from himself with circular logic
##Vote: Rookie44
also alderan, I am very suspicious of you for trying to defend this guy. Elaborate as to why you think he is not a scum.
And this, here, is amazingxkcd's analysis of rookie44.
There's the line about "trying to divert attention away from himself" when rookie's post was waaay before there WAS any attention on him. Also, the point about "asking for roles" is bullshit - he was asking what we thought blues should do, which is very different.
Also, Alderan basically says "rookie seems little scummy but I'm not convinced" and xkcd starts attacking him. That and the co-ordinated timing of the votes (which is enough evidence by itself, for me), and earlier stuff posted by Alderan. Also this stupid rookie bandwagon. amazingxkcd looks very very red.
How did he pick me? I give reasons, if analyzed by other fellow townies, is pretty convincing and he just singled me out. He clearly had gotten some instruction from Jackal.
28th post
2 mafia getting modkilled is nice, means they're down to 3 KP. On the other hand, we're probably out of medics. Which means the mafia gets to kill pretty much whoever they want.
Hey look! rookie44 was a blue! What a surprise! I'm gonna point out that I totally called that. But not to brag - if I saw it, someone in the mafia probably suspected him of being blue too. In fact it's a little more obvious to them cause they could rule out rookie being red. So i'm even more convinced that the mafia managed to swing that lynch.
I'm pretty comfortable saying that Senj, amazingxkcd, and Kurumi are mafia. To a more experienced player (iGrok or Vain preferably) what would you think of out vigi's shooting at them tonight? I'm maybe 80 or 90% sure, but I'd want someone with more experience to comment.
Hey look! rookie44 was a blue! What a surprise! I'm gonna point out that I totally called that. But not to brag - if I saw it, someone in the mafia probably suspected him of being blue too. In fact it's a little more obvious to them cause they could rule out rookie being red. So i'm even more convinced that the mafia managed to swing that lynch.
I'm pretty comfortable saying that Senj, amazingxkcd, and Kurumi are mafia. To a more experienced player (iGrok or Vain preferably) what would you think of out vigi's shooting at them tonight? I'm maybe 80 or 90% sure, but I'd want someone with more experience to comment.
He states that mafia swung that lynch. He voted for rookie after us 3 voted and so did jackal voted. That is bandwagoning, take note of that. He is also convinced that I deserved to get killed, as well as Senj, and Kurumi, when he has made a case only against me. Why Senj? Treadmill has said nothing about him all game and he wants a kill on him already? Mafia to me.
29th post
Errm. Lafali just did something rather unfortunate, which would be to vote for Rookie44 after the end of the day, where he was modkilled and shown to be mafia:
On June 07 2011 13:18 Lafali wrote:
##Vote Rookie44
So sorry if I was late, I was out tonight.
which increases my suspicion that rookie's lynch was scum-motivated.
On June 07 2011 13:18 Lafali wrote:
##Vote Rookie44
So sorry if I was late, I was out tonight.
which increases my suspicion that rookie's lynch was scum-motivated.
He voted for rookie, and so did many other people did too. If we look at this statement, It will be clear that he just indicated himself as Mafia since he voted only after the first 4 voted, all of whom had legit reasons.
30th post (I’m going to stop after this one because the evidence against him is already enough to convince him as mafia scum)
On June 07 2011 13:49 iGrok wrote:
Jackal's push to lynch rookie came out of fucking nowhere, and gathered way too much steam. I thought about reasons why he would do that, and one possible reason is that he was drawing attention from freeloader. I'm not certain of course, but it would be a good play, particularly if Jackal is the Godfather and was worried about losing KP due to inactivity & the lynch.
Oh, and I'm sure there are arrows missing, those are just the ones I could remember off the top of my head.
I'm not convinced that Jackal is scum. He advocated for Rookie's lynch, yes, but all day one everyone was advocated to lynch a different person. What I suspect is that the mafia saw it and jumped on it as an opportunity, about an hour later:
On June 07 2011 09:35 Treadmill wrote:
Another interesting point: Jackal58 makes his case against rookie44, it's pretty weak, the people posting aren't convinced. Nobody but him votes for rookie44. Then an hour later
Show nested quote +
Show nested quote +
Show nested quote +
Look at the time stamps, within 3 minutes of each other. And none of them posted for 2 hours previous to bandwagonning rookie. It looks liek co-ordination.
when Senj, amazingxkcd, and Kurumi all vote for rookie at the same time. It's the main reason I think all three are scum.
On June 07 2011 14:00 iGrok wrote:
One thing I notice now is that Treadmill has the most arrows. Treadmill, you are an interesting person...
Everything he's done has been in the right. Everything. When it was unpopular, he stood by his ideas. He's defended those he felt were wrongly accused, and and accused those he felt were guilty.
IMO, Treadmill is Town.
Aww, <3.
Jackal's push to lynch rookie came out of fucking nowhere, and gathered way too much steam. I thought about reasons why he would do that, and one possible reason is that he was drawing attention from freeloader. I'm not certain of course, but it would be a good play, particularly if Jackal is the Godfather and was worried about losing KP due to inactivity & the lynch.
Oh, and I'm sure there are arrows missing, those are just the ones I could remember off the top of my head.
I'm not convinced that Jackal is scum. He advocated for Rookie's lynch, yes, but all day one everyone was advocated to lynch a different person. What I suspect is that the mafia saw it and jumped on it as an opportunity, about an hour later:
On June 07 2011 09:35 Treadmill wrote:
Another interesting point: Jackal58 makes his case against rookie44, it's pretty weak, the people posting aren't convinced. Nobody but him votes for rookie44. Then an hour later
Show nested quote +
Show nested quote +
Show nested quote +
Look at the time stamps, within 3 minutes of each other. And none of them posted for 2 hours previous to bandwagonning rookie. It looks liek co-ordination.
when Senj, amazingxkcd, and Kurumi all vote for rookie at the same time. It's the main reason I think all three are scum.
On June 07 2011 14:00 iGrok wrote:
One thing I notice now is that Treadmill has the most arrows. Treadmill, you are an interesting person...
Everything he's done has been in the right. Everything. When it was unpopular, he stood by his ideas. He's defended those he felt were wrongly accused, and and accused those he felt were guilty.
IMO, Treadmill is Town.
Aww, <3.
iGrok, you’re making a mistake! If you are reading my analysis, and you still think he’s town, I got a guy named Flamewheel whose gonna Flame Strike the shit out of you.
Thus in all, Verdict is
[B]MAFIA SCUM
[*] Drazerk
+ Show Spoiler +
1st post
Ok yesterday i was quite busy and made my vote without explaining i read freeloaders post and it came to me as quite a large failure on his half although and bought into treadmills words who was pretty much slating him at this point for it who in turn im now suspecting after reading everything again
Ill follow this up later just wanted to post my thoughts at the moment
Ill follow this up later just wanted to post my thoughts at the moment
Fail lurker comment. Don’t just vote without saying something.
2nd post
On June 07 2011 08:15 heist wrote:
An updated list after the massive amount of rookie votes:
Rookie: 5
Freeloader: 4
Treadmill: 2
Drazerk: 2
jimbooo:2
igrok: 2
monsterdrakar: 2
gtrsrs: 2
amazingxkcd: 1
Kurumi: 1
TheAwesomeAll: 1
Can the people who voted monsterDrakar and Drazerk explain themselves?
Hell i can explain for them, Ive been lurking for the better part of this first day and i voted without saying anything
When i got up this morning I did make a small post but nothing major bar changing my vote from freeloader to treadmill after reading all the posts and believing he was not scum
With my erratic voting / posting pattern i would not be surprised if more people voted for me though and ill try to make amends tomorrow
An updated list after the massive amount of rookie votes:
Rookie: 5
Freeloader: 4
Treadmill: 2
Drazerk: 2
jimbooo:2
igrok: 2
monsterdrakar: 2
gtrsrs: 2
amazingxkcd: 1
Kurumi: 1
TheAwesomeAll: 1
Can the people who voted monsterDrakar and Drazerk explain themselves?
Hell i can explain for them, Ive been lurking for the better part of this first day and i voted without saying anything
When i got up this morning I did make a small post but nothing major bar changing my vote from freeloader to treadmill after reading all the posts and believing he was not scum
With my erratic voting / posting pattern i would not be surprised if more people voted for me though and ill try to make amends tomorrow
Another post making excuses about lurking, the only thing correct is that you voted for treadmill.
3rd post
On June 07 2011 09:35 Treadmill wrote:
Another interesting point: Jackal58 makes his case against rookie44, it's pretty weak, the people posting aren't convinced. Nobody but him votes for rookie44. Then an hour later
Show nested quote +
Show nested quote +
Show nested quote +
Look at the time stamps, within 3 minutes of each other. And none of them posted for 2 hours previous to bandwagonning rookie. It looks liek co-ordination.
Good catch by the looks of things every vote for Rookie has been within 5 mins of one another leading me to believe that this is very organised
Because there are a lot of inexperienced players ( my self included ) band wagoning will occur more often allowing the scum to get easier Lynch kills in the earlier days until we either prove or disprove Jackel's Theory
In my opinion Rookie is more inexperienced than Scum material
Another interesting point: Jackal58 makes his case against rookie44, it's pretty weak, the people posting aren't convinced. Nobody but him votes for rookie44. Then an hour later
Show nested quote +
Show nested quote +
Show nested quote +
Look at the time stamps, within 3 minutes of each other. And none of them posted for 2 hours previous to bandwagonning rookie. It looks liek co-ordination.
Good catch by the looks of things every vote for Rookie has been within 5 mins of one another leading me to believe that this is very organised
Because there are a lot of inexperienced players ( my self included ) band wagoning will occur more often allowing the scum to get easier Lynch kills in the earlier days until we either prove or disprove Jackel's Theory
In my opinion Rookie is more inexperienced than Scum material
He gives his opinions, but he doesn’t back it up. However, he is just jumping on the bandwagon way too much already.
Complete Lurker, not responding to requests, also jumping on bandwagons. He did vote once for treadmill, which just confuses the hell out of me. Verdict is
[B]EXTREMELY SCUMMISH UNKOWN
I do want to make him a pure mafia scum is simply because he voted for treadmill once.
[*] Jimbooo
+ Show Spoiler +
As for Jimboo’s case, his case has already been outlined and he was voted by 4 guys, one of who was confirmed a townie by death.
His verdict
SCUMMISH MAFIA I HAVE NO CLUE WHY HE VOTED TREADMILL LURKER
[*] Aril
+ Show Spoiler +
1st post
On June 05 2011 13:47 Treadmill wrote:
It is a good spot, aprudds. We should keep an eye on freeloader625.
Jimbooo, we do have to lynch somebody. Being "hasty" isn't really a concern. And somebody with next to no evidence against them is a better lynch than everyone else with no evidence against them at all. Still, 48 hours yet.
If someone was asking a question that might be incriminating, and they weren't mafia, wouldn't the mafia be quick to accuse that person, to keep someone "actually" in the mafia from getting lynched?
I think going after a person because of a question is a little low..
It is a good spot, aprudds. We should keep an eye on freeloader625.
Jimbooo, we do have to lynch somebody. Being "hasty" isn't really a concern. And somebody with next to no evidence against them is a better lynch than everyone else with no evidence against them at all. Still, 48 hours yet.
If someone was asking a question that might be incriminating, and they weren't mafia, wouldn't the mafia be quick to accuse that person, to keep someone "actually" in the mafia from getting lynched?
I think going after a person because of a question is a little low..
He is questioning the bandwagoning that was being formed. That’s a good move since the bandwagon was hasty and ill-wrought.
2nd post
On June 05 2011 14:39 cherubael wrote:
Also, Aril, you seem to be very quick in defending him, while not wanting to accuse anyone. Are you afraid your role will be too obvious if you accuse someone? Also, what reason do you have to defend him? What has he done for you? The only reason would be because you are both mafia, and you are trying to look out for him.
Defending people in this situation isn't wrong. There is a suspicious atmosphere floating around everyone and half of us are townies so you know what I mean, we want to get some conversation out here so we can actual get a good look at what a everyone's saying, and it only hurts the town if they're afraid everything they say is going to get them falsely accused.
We shouldn't all gang up on people right away and if we do then I'll be on the defending side until they make their case and I can make my own reasonable judgement.
Also, Aril, you seem to be very quick in defending him, while not wanting to accuse anyone. Are you afraid your role will be too obvious if you accuse someone? Also, what reason do you have to defend him? What has he done for you? The only reason would be because you are both mafia, and you are trying to look out for him.
Defending people in this situation isn't wrong. There is a suspicious atmosphere floating around everyone and half of us are townies so you know what I mean, we want to get some conversation out here so we can actual get a good look at what a everyone's saying, and it only hurts the town if they're afraid everything they say is going to get them falsely accused.
We shouldn't all gang up on people right away and if we do then I'll be on the defending side until they make their case and I can make my own reasonable judgement.
He is playing the role of public defender. That alone is enough for me to simply label him as a TOWNIE
[*]TranceStorm
+ Show Spoiler +
1st post
Hey everyone, I just got into the thread, and have a few quick observations to make.
On the topic of freeloader: I don't think he would be mafia off of his initial question. Having played a previous game as mafia, mafia members are explicitly aware of the fact that they are allowed to PM one another meaning that he would not need to ask that question in the first place. Given that he said that "he read the rules twice", there is no reason to believe that he would not read his role PM as closely.
Many people have concluded that his responses to being put under pressure are suspicious, but I don't think so. If anything, a mafia member would not want to put themselves under increased suspicion with cryptic statements - they want to hide, not increase the chances that they will be caught out. This, however, is not as strong as the first reason I had said above.
Judging based off of day 1 analysis will never be entirely solid, however, the people that jumped the gun to vote for freeloader are more suspicious then freeloader himself.
On the topic of freeloader: I don't think he would be mafia off of his initial question. Having played a previous game as mafia, mafia members are explicitly aware of the fact that they are allowed to PM one another meaning that he would not need to ask that question in the first place. Given that he said that "he read the rules twice", there is no reason to believe that he would not read his role PM as closely.
Many people have concluded that his responses to being put under pressure are suspicious, but I don't think so. If anything, a mafia member would not want to put themselves under increased suspicion with cryptic statements - they want to hide, not increase the chances that they will be caught out. This, however, is not as strong as the first reason I had said above.
Judging based off of day 1 analysis will never be entirely solid, however, the people that jumped the gun to vote for freeloader are more suspicious then freeloader himself.
Seems innocent enough, giving an explanation as to his stance on freeloader being under pressure.
2nd post
On June 06 2011 11:02 cherubael wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
This and the comment on the inactivelist is the only relevant information 35spike1 has posted. This leaves him off the list, but he seems to have nothing relevant to say. This seems a little suspicious, so I think that keeping an eye on him would be a good idea, though I wouldn't say he's scum...yet.
Wait until after this day to start accusing lurkers of being suspicious or what not. After the first day, voting lists will be drawn up and inactive/lurker lists will be drawn up as well. When that happens we can pressure them - ask them what they think of the situation and why they voted for X. Lurkers have a high chance of being mafia but also a high chance of being a blue role as well.
+ Show Spoiler +
This and the comment on the inactivelist is the only relevant information 35spike1 has posted. This leaves him off the list, but he seems to have nothing relevant to say. This seems a little suspicious, so I think that keeping an eye on him would be a good idea, though I wouldn't say he's scum...yet.
Wait until after this day to start accusing lurkers of being suspicious or what not. After the first day, voting lists will be drawn up and inactive/lurker lists will be drawn up as well. When that happens we can pressure them - ask them what they think of the situation and why they voted for X. Lurkers have a high chance of being mafia but also a high chance of being a blue role as well.
This statement of his is a complete townie move as he knows that the lurkers will be pressured soon anyway, so he is going to concentrate on the more active players.
3rd post
On June 06 2011 23:59 Kurumi wrote:
Oh,about voting:
People who voted on freeloader625 and not switched(ever):
cherubael
teamsolid
grush57
People who voted on freeloader625 then swtiched:
Treadmill(vote->unvote->vote again)
Drazerk -> Treadmill
Jimboo -> unvote
Lafali -> unvote
People who switched on freeloader625:
Benjef Treadmill -> freeloader
I will try to dig why they have voted on freeloader/changed their votes/dropped the case.
The scummiest guy? As for now,it would be Lafali;gtrsrs case is the thing I will get into in a quick moment,because there's a bit of content to analysis,but mostly when "weaker' player attacks "stronger" player it is overeager Townie versus Townie.
I posted my analysis on Jimboo earlier - I want to see his response and his explanation for quickly turning around despite advocating for restraint. If he doesn't respond with a sufficient response then I will definitely vote for him.
As to Lafali, I don't have a clear read on him at all. He's posted a couple of one-liners and a single defensive post as well. Not enough for any serious analysis. In any case, I believe that Jimbooo is definitely the stronger candidate.
Oh,about voting:
People who voted on freeloader625 and not switched(ever):
cherubael
teamsolid
grush57
People who voted on freeloader625 then swtiched:
Treadmill(vote->unvote->vote again)
Drazerk -> Treadmill
Jimboo -> unvote
Lafali -> unvote
People who switched on freeloader625:
Benjef Treadmill -> freeloader
I will try to dig why they have voted on freeloader/changed their votes/dropped the case.
The scummiest guy? As for now,it would be Lafali;gtrsrs case is the thing I will get into in a quick moment,because there's a bit of content to analysis,but mostly when "weaker' player attacks "stronger" player it is overeager Townie versus Townie.
I posted my analysis on Jimboo earlier - I want to see his response and his explanation for quickly turning around despite advocating for restraint. If he doesn't respond with a sufficient response then I will definitely vote for him.
As to Lafali, I don't have a clear read on him at all. He's posted a couple of one-liners and a single defensive post as well. Not enough for any serious analysis. In any case, I believe that Jimbooo is definitely the stronger candidate.
I have already stated that Jimbooo is most likely scum materials and trancestorm confirms that. I do not have time to go in more depth analysis, but I have read the rest of his posts, and confirmed that he is a townie, despite being wrong about he.
[*] heist
+ Show Spoiler +
1st post
Freeloader's last two responses were really vague and general. I'm not really suspicious of the people defending his first post, but the his last two posts do seem fairly fishy.
He is making a scummy post here. He states that freeloader is being vague, but he does not question any of the accusations against freeloader as a single bit scummy.
2nd post is just him being an idiot by not reading the rules and the Mod’s posts. However, he seems a bit shocked that people know the amount of mafia members there are.
3rd post, he apologizes for his mistake.
4th post
On June 06 2011 05:33 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
this list doesn't tell anything about the people on the list... Maybe they're just lurking like I was.
You can delete me from that list btw.
This list is meant to pressure people into posting. It's meant to highlight the people that are lying low and "lurking". I expect mafia, esp in a game with so many inexperienced users, to try to remain innocuous and not garner much attention on the early game. A townie would not feel as much pressure and wouldn't care about this list. You, however, seem really concerned about getting off this list.
You say its too early to judge anyone especially before we get to really know anyone. But how do you expect us to judge you if your posts are meaningless (unless you dont want us to judge you)? How you post and your response to accusations and early votes are the only means we have to go on. Currently your posts as Kurumi states are pure fluff. They tell us nothing about you and seem like you're just trying to just accomplish your post quota without saying anything.
Very fluffy responses made here. He supports the list of people who haven’t posted yet, despite the fact that its barely 12 hours into the game and there are 48 hours in the game. Very scummy like.
5th post
On June 06 2011 18:06 Pyo wrote:
After reading the posts up to now, I am reasonably confident that freeloader is probably a townie and the ambiguity of early accusers and their motivations means that there's not much to be learned from lynching him, although it might be inevitable at this point. Since his post in his defense haven't really been all that constructive anyway it isn't really a big loss, so I'm not gonna fight it.
The players that I find annoying are by far Haiku boy and Kurumi. So if ever I'm undecided about who to vote for it'll probably be one of them.
I think it is interesting to note all the little 1v1 bickering going on, the most recent example of which is between iGrok and gtrsrs. I think it is reasonable to assume that two mafia wouldn't orchestrate a mini feud this early on, which means that either both are town or only one is town.
So combining my last 2 paragraphs, I think I'm gonna have to change my vote to iGrok.
If I am to understand correctly, the two people who you find MOST suspicious and in need of lynching are basically the talkers, the ones generating discussion, if a bit rash on Kurumi's end. Im trying to shift through the arguments against iGrok and the number one reason i can come up with is his haikus which you find personally annoying. This is probably one of the most flimsy excuses to lynch someone i have ever read. Your post does not outline any reasonable level of analysis to claim iGrok or Kurumi as scum. Basing your vote on who annoys you the most is by far one the most detrimental ways to approach your vote. Your personal decisions on who to lynch mean little to the rest of the town if you dont back it up well. You should be using your posts to try to persuade the town with logical claims and observations about these players.
Bickering though unfortunate is bound to happen with wounded egos. This early I think it's a little premature to call anyone mafia if they are arguing with someone else.
And while we are talking about Kurumi or iGrok, people like grush57 are remaining largely ignored. This is the extent of his posts:
On June 06 2011 04:21 grush57 wrote:
Yea true, I stupidly joined the bandwagon to lynch freeloader from his posts.
On June 06 2011 04:12 grush57 wrote:
Im not inactive, I just dont feel like anybody can accuse this early.
On June 06 2011 09:02 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Says the person with only 1 post so far?
On June 06 2011 09:10 grush57 wrote:
Oh, sorry, only checked back a couple pages.
Easy one-liner responses. He claims that bandwagoning Freeloader was a stupid decision but has yet to revert his vote. He claims he isn't inactive yet does not post. To me he warrants far more suspicion.
After reading the posts up to now, I am reasonably confident that freeloader is probably a townie and the ambiguity of early accusers and their motivations means that there's not much to be learned from lynching him, although it might be inevitable at this point. Since his post in his defense haven't really been all that constructive anyway it isn't really a big loss, so I'm not gonna fight it.
The players that I find annoying are by far Haiku boy and Kurumi. So if ever I'm undecided about who to vote for it'll probably be one of them.
I think it is interesting to note all the little 1v1 bickering going on, the most recent example of which is between iGrok and gtrsrs. I think it is reasonable to assume that two mafia wouldn't orchestrate a mini feud this early on, which means that either both are town or only one is town.
So combining my last 2 paragraphs, I think I'm gonna have to change my vote to iGrok.
If I am to understand correctly, the two people who you find MOST suspicious and in need of lynching are basically the talkers, the ones generating discussion, if a bit rash on Kurumi's end. Im trying to shift through the arguments against iGrok and the number one reason i can come up with is his haikus which you find personally annoying. This is probably one of the most flimsy excuses to lynch someone i have ever read. Your post does not outline any reasonable level of analysis to claim iGrok or Kurumi as scum. Basing your vote on who annoys you the most is by far one the most detrimental ways to approach your vote. Your personal decisions on who to lynch mean little to the rest of the town if you dont back it up well. You should be using your posts to try to persuade the town with logical claims and observations about these players.
Bickering though unfortunate is bound to happen with wounded egos. This early I think it's a little premature to call anyone mafia if they are arguing with someone else.
And while we are talking about Kurumi or iGrok, people like grush57 are remaining largely ignored. This is the extent of his posts:
On June 06 2011 04:21 grush57 wrote:
Yea true, I stupidly joined the bandwagon to lynch freeloader from his posts.
On June 06 2011 04:12 grush57 wrote:
Im not inactive, I just dont feel like anybody can accuse this early.
On June 06 2011 09:02 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Says the person with only 1 post so far?
On June 06 2011 09:10 grush57 wrote:
Oh, sorry, only checked back a couple pages.
Easy one-liner responses. He claims that bandwagoning Freeloader was a stupid decision but has yet to revert his vote. He claims he isn't inactive yet does not post. To me he warrants far more suspicion.
Better post here. He does a little bit of analyzing and determines that grush57 seems a bit scummish. At least his reasonings make sense for once.
6th post
It seems like a lot of our votes are getting split into multiple people.
First of all, I want to strongly advise everyone who voted for freeloader to strongly reconsider their vote. If freeloader was taken out of the equation who would you vote for? why? There are been enough posts that warrant much more suspicious behavior than freeloader's question. I think it's been an easy mafia move to just bandwagon freeloader, feel safe in the numbers, and be able to provide an easy explanation.
I'd also think it would be highly prudent if we went into this lynch with some sort of collective strategy. On day 1 there are really only two justifications for a lynch that i can see:
1. Everything related to freeloader (those who voted for him so quickly, those that changed their mind, those that provided a weak/suspicious defense when questioned, and to a MINISCULE degree freeloader himself). Most likely, if we killed everyone who voted for him, perhaps we get one or two mafia members. But right now it seems like the majority of the votes are simply rushing townies (please reconsider). However, pressuring these people into responding may come up with incongruities, anti-town suspicions and actions, and perhaps a reliable person to accuse.
2. The second way to approach the lynch is target the lurkers, the ones with very weak justifications for votes, and those that are overtly defensive when questioned without providing any real defense to allegations. Those that touch base, have a 1 liner quip, and then depart.
These have are some people that are very suspicious to me in that regard:
Grush57
Supersoft
Lafali
amazingxkcd
gtrsrs (to a lesser extent)
Everyone should really reevaluate who they voted for. If the primary reason is aggression, that's simply not enough to go by on. Aggression right now whether it be personal or otherwise can be construed as both town and mafia and is high unreliable differentiating mafia from town.
Also, personal annoyances are the LEAST effective means to go by on. Please don't vote like that.
I'm curious as to which you deem more effective, the one we should be pursuing because too much chatter has been focused on the first while the second approach (the one i deem with a larger mafia pool) to be less examined.
First of all, I want to strongly advise everyone who voted for freeloader to strongly reconsider their vote. If freeloader was taken out of the equation who would you vote for? why? There are been enough posts that warrant much more suspicious behavior than freeloader's question. I think it's been an easy mafia move to just bandwagon freeloader, feel safe in the numbers, and be able to provide an easy explanation.
I'd also think it would be highly prudent if we went into this lynch with some sort of collective strategy. On day 1 there are really only two justifications for a lynch that i can see:
1. Everything related to freeloader (those who voted for him so quickly, those that changed their mind, those that provided a weak/suspicious defense when questioned, and to a MINISCULE degree freeloader himself). Most likely, if we killed everyone who voted for him, perhaps we get one or two mafia members. But right now it seems like the majority of the votes are simply rushing townies (please reconsider). However, pressuring these people into responding may come up with incongruities, anti-town suspicions and actions, and perhaps a reliable person to accuse.
2. The second way to approach the lynch is target the lurkers, the ones with very weak justifications for votes, and those that are overtly defensive when questioned without providing any real defense to allegations. Those that touch base, have a 1 liner quip, and then depart.
These have are some people that are very suspicious to me in that regard:
Grush57
Supersoft
Lafali
amazingxkcd
gtrsrs (to a lesser extent)
Everyone should really reevaluate who they voted for. If the primary reason is aggression, that's simply not enough to go by on. Aggression right now whether it be personal or otherwise can be construed as both town and mafia and is high unreliable differentiating mafia from town.
Also, personal annoyances are the LEAST effective means to go by on. Please don't vote like that.
I'm curious as to which you deem more effective, the one we should be pursuing because too much chatter has been focused on the first while the second approach (the one i deem with a larger mafia pool) to be less examined.
He is doing a bit of circling with freeloader, since he suspected freeloader originally. He then goes on to list 5 people, (one who is dead, one who is me, and one for whom he has only written a reason). He does not give much reasoning for why it would be this 5. A bit scummish to me.
7th post is a list he made of the votes after the bandwagon switch on rookie. He asks monsterDrakar and Drazerk for reasoning. This seems a bit more of a town move since mafia wouldn’t really question why their fellow comrades voted the way they did.
8th post
yes I can explain myself. I judged over monsterDrakar too quick. I am used to the sc2 mafia, where everything has to be very quick and most votes happen to be intentional...
Despite of that, I will stick to my vote, since monsterDrakar obviously won't be lynched and I really don't know who to vote for, as I described in my last post.
Sorry but that's a terrible reason to vote for someone. You believe, as of now, monsterDrakar is most likely not mafia. Yet you refuse to unvote him. Yes, no one is sure of anything at this point but its simply lazy to refuse to revote based on whats occuring now especially in regards to Rookie.
It would also be interesting to hear your read on the other person who voted for monsterDrakar.
Despite of that, I will stick to my vote, since monsterDrakar obviously won't be lynched and I really don't know who to vote for, as I described in my last post.
Sorry but that's a terrible reason to vote for someone. You believe, as of now, monsterDrakar is most likely not mafia. Yet you refuse to unvote him. Yes, no one is sure of anything at this point but its simply lazy to refuse to revote based on whats occuring now especially in regards to Rookie.
It would also be interesting to hear your read on the other person who voted for monsterDrakar.
He is questioning the people who made votes without much thoughts. He is trying to contribute more to the town discussions.
9th post is a redundant statement about mafia trying to lie there.
10-11 Is just restating what I said.
12th post
OK, this close to the end of Day 1, I'd like to ask everyone who voted for Freeloader, Drazerk, and Jimbooo to revote. I'm not saying they aren't mafia. They very well could be especially Jimboo who remains highly suspicious. However, THEY WILL NOT BE LYNCHED. You won't achieve majority and your votes will be meaningless.
I really urge you all to consider Impervious' plan. There's no real solid long-term plan if we do lynch Jimbooo no matter what he turns up. If you're voting based purely on suspicious behavior alone, Amazingxkcd has given off no pro-town vibe. His early posts contributed nothing useful and his latter posts are mainly defensive posts against a multitude of other people (i.e Drazerk, alderan, kairo,).
Also, why are people still voting for Freeloader.....
I really urge you all to consider Impervious' plan. There's no real solid long-term plan if we do lynch Jimbooo no matter what he turns up. If you're voting based purely on suspicious behavior alone, Amazingxkcd has given off no pro-town vibe. His early posts contributed nothing useful and his latter posts are mainly defensive posts against a multitude of other people (i.e Drazerk, alderan, kairo,).
Also, why are people still voting for Freeloader.....
He is acting like a dumb townie. He knows that the freeloader case is quite stupid, but he is making a mistake with me. Impervious made a major mistake as well, but heist is just blindly following him since I started to act more like kurumi now.
That being said, I really can’t say much about him, so I am going on a hunch and just state that his verdict is
TOWN-siding UNKOWN