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On June 28 2011 14:36 VisceraEyes wrote: I enjoy how GMarshal included Palmar on the Vet list, yet his first game was my first game as well. Yes, he had a strong showing for Mafia that game...but in all honesty, scum won from an inactive town. I wonder what motivation GMarshal has putting a new player like Palmar (if you'd like to see an example of his 'stellar town play', may I direct you to PTP?) in the 'Vet' side of that list. He's certainly no vet as far as I'm concerned.
I thought he played well, is that going to be a point of contention?
Sure he fucked up in PTP, but he *did* nail me when I was happily leading the town to do my bidding. In fact without him being resurrected the town would have assuredly lost. Your opinions are your own, I made some opinionated calls on that list, which I am more than happy to defend.
Fun fact, scum want to *avoid* being in the vet section of that list, as thats where the pressure is going to be when the vets start dying. Much like DB begged to be taken off the zodiac list in PTP, any mafia up there are now going to start second guessing their shots, as they don't want to expose themselves.
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On June 28 2011 14:46 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 14:38 GMarshal wrote: A pro-town atmosphere is one in which it is possible to scumhunt and read the thread without having to wade through crap. Its explained in Ver's town guide, but basically it means no mud flinging, no beating dead horses, avoiding unjustified OMGUS and generally behaving as gentlemen towards each other. If we do this we can generate and use information, it will also encourage newer posters to post. Thats the theory at least ^_^
To achieve this don't random FoS, treat even stupid ideas with respect (shoot them down, but theres no need to say "God you moron, you suck" just shoot it down) and behave in a way that makes people *want* to post and listen to what you have to say.
Also that post you pointed out is also similar to my post in the first 4 min of Closed Casket Mafia . Its a stylistic choice, and I really like the pictures of the grim reaper (not to mention I have like 12 I had ready for CCM, but then I was killed... ;_;) . Plus I hate lurkers, and I needed a conversation starter, so I chose to talk about them.
Any other questions? Ok thanks for clearing that up for me. Beating dead horses I can agree with, as with behaving like gentlemen and mud flinging. If you eliminate unjusitified OMGUS votes my entire town play just disappeared, I always just attack people who call me and other relative newcomers bad lol. I hadn't seen the Closed Casket game, fair enough. Get back to reaping sir! What do you think about the exchange between Henry VI and Edward I? I haven't read anything sinister into it, as I see it the Sinani twins are close friends, and to me it looks like casual banter/poking fun. It might be revealing later, when I have a stronger read on them, but as of right now I just see it as two pals fooling around. You've made your opinion of their exchange clear.
What do you think of VisceraEyes being so upset at you being included as a "vet" in my list? Have you formed an opinion about ym yet, if so, what is it?
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On June 28 2011 14:54 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 14:42 GMarshal wrote:On June 28 2011 14:36 VisceraEyes wrote: I enjoy how GMarshal included Palmar on the Vet list, yet his first game was my first game as well. Yes, he had a strong showing for Mafia that game...but in all honesty, scum won from an inactive town. I wonder what motivation GMarshal has putting a new player like Palmar (if you'd like to see an example of his 'stellar town play', may I direct you to PTP?) in the 'Vet' side of that list. He's certainly no vet as far as I'm concerned.
I thought he played well, is that going to be a point of contention? Sure he fucked up in PTP, but he *did* nail me when I was happily leading the town to do my bidding. In fact without him being resurrected the town would have assuredly lost. Your opinions are your own, I made some opinionated calls on that list, which I am more than happy to defend. Fun fact, scum want to *avoid* being in the vet section of that list, as thats where the pressure is going to be when the vets start dying. Much like DB begged to be taken off the zodiac list in PTP, any mafia up there are now going to start second guessing their shots, as they don't want to expose themselves. GM, the whole idea of you making a list like that is to discuss it. I'm not attacking you, so there isn't anything to defend. I disagreed with your choice and I made my opinion known. If you're gonna step up to bat, be ready to swing sir...that's all I'm sayin. If we as a town are going to follow you (don't you even pretend you're not bucking for town leadership at this point ), I for one want to make absolutely sure there's no ulterior motive behind the things you say. Call me paranoid, but I trusted BC in PTP and it bit me in the ass...in a big way.
Didn't you kill BC in PTP?
I'm happy to discuss the list, but clearly if I thought palmar deserved to be on there I'm going to defend my choice, thats *how* we discuss, you say "I disagree with ___ because of X Y and Z" and I say, "No you are mistaken because of A, F and M". So there is something to defend ^_^
As for town leadership, its a means to an end. I'm going to kill scum, that is the goal, to achieve that I need the town's help, so I'm willing to "lead" as long as its getting scum killed. Leadership is not a goal in and of itself, its a way to help us win. To kill scum, yes I need the rest of the town to be working together well. I don't care if I write the analysis that pegs scum or you do, or a newbie does, I care that we follow that analysis to a successful lynch.
If you want to consider me a leader then you are welcome to, all I promise to do is make my opinions clear and do my very best to kill mafia, nothing more, nothing less.
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@Palmar, I was referring to this although "upset" may be too strong a word.
Also Hi sand!
Oh and YM, your answer to the question I asked DB made me giggle <3
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On June 28 2011 14:55 sandroba wrote: Okay, I'm going to go completely against everything that's been said so far. Mafia are not dumb. They are very likely NOT going to lurk in this game. People should NOT be shooting into the lurker list until later or only if this becomes a real problem. You guys can argue WIFOM all you want, but I'm willing to bet mafia won't find themselves in the lurker list any time soon. Also we shall not make any lists this game. We will discuss 2-3 players at a time and leave blues to act on their own. I shall start discussing YM. You pretty much started being agressive as always, but I feel after Mafia XLII you must have learned already that this is gonna lead us to endless confusion, no? My opinion is that you are abusing your town meta this game, throwing pointless flawed acusations like there's no tomorrow. Makes a lot of sense as scum trying to hide their colors doesn't it?
Mafia may or may not lurk, new mafia have a tendency to lurk out of fear, this isn't a crackpot theory, its a fact. And lurkers only hurt town, I'm happy to see them dead, as they aren't helping and aren't analyzable. All they do is give mafia easy lynches, I'd rather see them shot early than worry about mafia pushing a lynch on one at LYLO. Basically town lurkers are as good as traitors, which means I have no regrets when they die. None.
I don't agree with your accusation of YM, from reading another game of his where he was mafia (XXX maybe?) what I saw of his scum play showed a less aggressive, more subdued YM. I don't want to base much on meta, so I'm waiting to see how he handles himself before coming to a real decision, although based exclusively on meta considerations I would judge him to be town atm.
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On June 28 2011 15:23 VisceraEyes wrote: @GM
At any rate, 201 is correct, Palmar DID /out before the game started. He'll either be Mod-killed or replaced before Day 2, I totally forgot.
Aside from adding LSB to the vet list, which Wiggles already suggested, I have no problems with your list. :D
NOW
What do we do with it? We've pretty much unanimously decided that blues will be acting on their own with VERY limited guidance from the rest of town. Should we just go down the list and start asking people their opinions on each one? Or is that just something to look at once people start dying? Chaos13 asked for it as a reference for later in the game, and I decided it could be used for some discussion as well, but I think its best saved as a tool for later in the game/ a resource for newer players. Like medics who have no idea who is who may want to glance at it and pick from the vets to protect. It also puts pressure on us "vets" to post more/be active as if we don't *everyone* will know something is off. It should also make the mafia hesitant to fire into the top of the list, as its will put more pressure on the players there, and theres probably at least two mafia there.
However I would wait for near the end of day 2 to look at it again, check who is left alive there, go over their posts and see what they are actually pushing. If only 2-3 are left then take a really, really close look at what their goals and contributions are.
Its a little bit of wifom for the mafia, a resource for new players and a tool for later in the game. For now we should probably talk about something else, unless there is something about it in particular you want to talk about.
So, which of the active posters so far strikes you as disrupting the town the most ? if you can't come up with one, which has the most vacuous/fluffy posts?
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On June 28 2011 15:33 sandroba wrote: @GM Okay, now you are just being silly. Considering this setup you know mafia won't lurk, because lurkers are at an extreme dissavantage regarding everything. If new mafia players lurk, I'm all fine and dandy with it, since our DTs can quickly confirm/nail them. They are unlikely to be chosen GF AND if I read the op correctly only one GF is possible this game. Despite me saying VIGS DO NOT SHOOT LURKERS UNTIL IT BECOMES A PROBLEM I'm sure people will do it and I guarantee you they will all flip town. Do not ecourage them. You are border line pushing mafia objetives now.
All lurkers are traitors. They are lynch fodder for the mafia. I don't give a damn if they flip green, red or purple, they compromise the ability of the town to win. If you are on the lurker list you deserve to die. I will not allow traitors to hold our victory hostage. I'd much rather be at lylo with no lurkers than not at lylo with 25% of the town being inactive.
I'm actually of the opinion that DTs shouldn't be using lurker checks, lurkers should just be exterminated plain and simple. This transcends this game, I'm sick and tired of town lurking and screwing me over. I'm establishing good meta for all the other games.
You may disagree with me, but I predict that DT checks confirming lurkers is only going to encourage the lurkers to lurk more, I mean what incentive does a bored, confirmed townie have to contribute?
Its not a mafia objective, its a preventive measure. When do we decide that the lurkers have "become a problem"? When we hit lylo and its already to late? Or when a Mafia fakeclaims a check on one of them at lylo and wins?
I know you may disagree with me, but after seeing the town get raped in XLII I'm simply unwilling to show tolerance to lurkers. I want to shoot them so our DTs can actually assess *threats* with their checks.
Its a controversial position, and I expect to take flack for it, but we have a bunch of lurker exclusive KP, we may as well use it. If I'm successful then the Lurker List will always be empty and there won't be an issue.
Again, let me emphasize, if you say all lurkers are probably town, mafia will make sure to have at least one lurker. The rest of the lurkers are lynch fodder for any charismatic mafia who needs a mislynch. "worst" case scenario for mafia a dt has to claim to avoid a mislynch, or the lynch pusher falls under mild suspicion.
Also I don't expect we have enough KP to *actually* exterminate the lurkers, I just want to terrorize the lurkers into being active contributing members.
Feel free to disagree, but I feel like the mafia *want* the lurkers spared, so they can mislynch later. I for one have no issue killing them, and will shed no tears.
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at LSB dying
He was obviously town the moment he started proposing a plan to abuse dt roles. Scum would not usually be that ballsy.
I won't conjecture as to what other reasons the mafia might have for killing him.
And YM assuming RB is a far stretch. Just assume that the RB is still out there, any further conjecture is wifom
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I just noticed I used disagree like 4-5 times in my last post.
3 am is such a nice time of day
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On June 28 2011 16:06 VisceraEyes wrote:I almost said something about that GM, as you seem like the type to diversify your vocabulary. Who do YOU feel is disrupting town so far? Right now, I don't feel like anyone is disrupting per-se, YM's many fingers seem to have calmed down, which were something I felt was disruptive. However I have yet to notice anyone pushing a scum agenda, at least as far as active disruption goes.
Fluffyness wise hiro's post on lurkers strikes me as being remarkably similar to mine.
I am now going to sleep ^_^
I would take it as the essence of kindness if the mafia would be so considerate as to at least wait till I get up tomorrow to kill me.
Oh, and at all the people who have yet to post: + Show Spoiler +
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On June 28 2011 16:14 sandroba wrote: OK, I'm very convinced GM is scum right now. The fact that LSB died is plain and simple. The moment he proposed his plan he was confirmed town, as no mafia would ever propose a plan like that. The reason I think he is mafia is because 1) He ninja'ed me and identified it, and as such we know he is capable of doing it (I don't think any other player realise this yet, amongst the active) 2) He claimed to have thought of the plan, but as scum he obviously did not mention it until LSB did. 3) He's pushing vigs to shoot lurkers, when clearly mafia won't be there. 4) YM is posting completely anti-town stuff about blues. Mafia still has 2 kp left so LOL at medics not protecting people today. Also RB doesn't do shit to vigilante. The fact that GM did not catch on this can only mean 1 of the 2: YM is also scum with GM or YM is tripping hard and GM knows he's town and must maintain his position earlier of YM being town to not rise any suspicion. Either way GM is scum. Sure thing. Please post a more coherent argument. Let me reply to what you have
1.) Duh, anyone with a braincell should have known LSB was town. 2.) I thought of a *similar* plan, but I couldn't (still can't) think of a way to make use of it without having DTs claim. I am against ousting blue roles. 3.) Yes I am. I made my case why, and you should understand it. Vigis have a lurker only KP, they might as well use it, no? All lurkers are traitors, by definition. Ace said it best in my first game, I think, kill scum, and those who will not help you kill scum (not an exact quote, but I don't feel like looking it up) 4.) He admitted to fucking up with the medic thing, because he thought scum had 1 kp. If I think someone is scum I call them out on it. I just think YM is playing poorly, but not necessarily scummy. remember what we said about bad plans? Hell I missed that he made a posts about medics till you pointed it out and I had to go back and check.
I don't see your case, but if you bring up any new points I will gladly answer them, so far it seems to me that you are dead set on me being mafia for some reason. I won't appeal to meta, but my alignment should be evident by now.
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On June 28 2011 16:21 sandroba wrote: EBWOP: by vigilante I mean veteran Depends on the host actually, I've played games where vets can be roleblocked.
Lets ask, not that it matters, but I'll admit I'm curious now.
Can veteran's additional life be broken by a roleblock
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On June 28 2011 16:35 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:24 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean, the thing is he's right in theory. They have to trade in their 1 DT check for their 2 lurker checks unless I'm mistaken. That's 1 less DT check town has in its arsenal, right? How so? They actually GAIN one check. They trade checking one active for checking 2 lurkers. Explain to me why checking an active player is better than 2 other player who in theory are hard to analyse due to lack of posts. @GM I'd like your reasoning on this aswel. There's only 1 GF. Why should we shoot on the lurker list instead of allowing DTs to check it? Isn't it infinetelly better to save vig lurker shots for later when they have a higher chance of hitting scum? I'm all for calling out people for lurking, but this setup makes it unlikely scum will be there.
Ok, there are two possibilities I see.
1.) No mafia will lurk, in which case every lurker check is a waste of a check that will catch no mafia. Remember odds are DTs will die before revealing innocent checks, but will usually crumb/claim guilty checks. This means that every lurker check is wasting checks that could catch mafia. In this case shooting into the list is less than optimal, although it forces activity. Remember the vigis have shots that can only be shot at lurkers, so its not like the DT check that is wasted, but rather this *only* affects lurkers.
2.) The mafia knows we are going to wifom lurkers, and probably ignore them since they are "all green" a one or two mafia will lurk amongst 4-5 townies. We'll hit lylo with all lurkers and since all lurkers are green, and no effort was put in motivating them into acting we probably lose.
However if we shoot into the list 1.) Mafia will be too scared to lurk and 2.) townies will be motivated to actually do stuff to get off the list. I'm not saying we should devote all our resources to killing lurkers, only the lurker exclusive KP vigis have, along with a comp-vigi shot or two.
Yes, theres a better than even chance the mafia will not risk having lurkers, but its a risk I'm willing to take to ensure that the mafia cannot lurk to victory. Basically I think DTs are to strong to waste on lurkers, and I feel like shooting lurkers will resolve that issue better without wasting town resources.
Does this make my stance clearer to you?
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On June 28 2011 16:40 TheAwesomeAll wrote:No surprise, the thread is being spammed up with nothing but technical issues "lets create a pro town atmosphere" and references to old mafia games. Dont spent any more posts on the new interesting format!~ New formats in general favor scum because they are allowed to talk about technical issues the first day, town shoots some noob/lurker and everyone is happy. The lurker mechanism is just a call to spam, but GMarshal is really pushing it. Your clock is ticking, cute. This is the one of the few good posts made so far: Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 14:44 sinani206 wrote:Pro-Town atmosphere would ideally be: - No taking lead.
Being a "leader" seems really scummy to me. I just have this innate bias that leaders are mafia, and even though there is quite a slim chance of them being scum, if they are, town has already lost.
- No spamming.
As has been mentioned before, all spamming does is derail town. It makes posts hard to find and confuses people so that scum are harder to analyse and pin for what they really are.
- Active scumhunting.
Scumhunting is obviously very pro-town. It gives the town a good discussion point and helps (obviously) find mafia. No reason not to do this.
- No lurking.
Lurking is confusing for all players who aren't lurking. It makes you hard to analyse. Obviously with all the anti-lurking abilities in this game, it isn't much of an issue, but keep this in mind.
That pretty much covers it. If anyone has any additions, feel free to share. Keep all of these points in mind when posting and analyzing. Off to play some SotIS and then go to sleep. Probably won't check the thread until morning. Good night folks! So instead of another technical issue or something im going to point the first FoS in the game. The most spammy player in the game: Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 12:13 hiro protagonist wrote: Sup town!
I am 100% behind Gmarshal about lurkers/trolls. that is all I have to say about that.
so everyone, lets get into it: towns lurker KP should be used once any lurker list is up. As such, I doubt very much that we will need to do a policy lynch on lurkers (which is something I almost always advocate).
Conversely: mafia, with the lurker mod on, will try and be spammy. Vigs, please,please,PLEASE, just shoot anyone that is cluttering up the thread with nonsense.
yeah... Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 12:39 hiro protagonist wrote:On June 28 2011 12:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On June 28 2011 12:20 youngminii wrote:On June 28 2011 12:13 hiro protagonist wrote: Sup town!
I am 100% behind Gmarshal about lurkers/trolls. that is all I have to say about that.
so everyone, lets get into it: towns lurker KP should be used once any lurker list is up. As such, I doubt very much that we will need to do a policy lynch on lurkers (which is something I almost always advocate).
Conversely: mafia, with the lurker mod on, will try and be spammy. Vigs, please,please,PLEASE, just shoot anyone that is cluttering up the thread with nonsense.
Do not do this, Vig you should be targeting who they feel is scum, not anyone that is spammy. First off, scum are not stupid, they won't be spamming up the thread for the sake of spamming the thread. Second, by saying "just shoot anyone that is cluttering up the thread with nonsense" in the thread will obviously signal scum to be very delicate and careful with their posting. FoS on you for this, it's a very flawed plan, everyone knows what a lurker is and what's not, if someone appears to be spammy and their playstyle lines up with scum then go ahead and shoot them but as soon as you start directing who the Vig should hit publically is when mafia get an advantage. Also, since lurking is defined by third party judgement, there's a chance that Spammers will also show up on the lurker list, due to quality of posts and actual word count. Shoot who you think is scummy, not who you think is worthless. -_- Your right, Vigs should hit those who are scummy. Those that are Spamming the thread are acting scummy. I didn't make a plan, I was giving out words of wisdom. Don't twist my words please. @Wiggles: you remember PTP right? I don't want that to happen with this thread... talking about lurkers like his live depends on it, i would love it if people stopped mentioning other games without explanation. Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 13:06 hiro protagonist wrote: @LSB: What do you have in mind? speaking for myself, I cant think of a way to abuse it because the list is chosen from a 3rd party... The lurker mechanism is soooooo interesting. And to top it all of, something that is so ridiculously safe to post Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 13:34 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, chaos, he is a list:
GMarshal youngminii Jackal58 ~OpZ~ Mr. Wiggles Kenpachi
these are the most skilled/vets players in this game. Fun fact: GMarshal has never been lynched as town. Another fun fact: Mr. Wiggles has been mafia the last 2 games I played with him.
The following players I would describe as skilled, or at least very active when playing town:
DropBear Cthsazsa Mig sandroba VisceraEyes Palmar Varpulis
Everyone else I have no experience playing with. a list. A No Information List to be exact. You know the thing noob scum (like me in XL) post. Safe free town cred. please please please stop the spamThe other guy im keeping an eye on is GMarshal.
/applause. You just shot down all town discussion and missed the major point of the lurker discussion, which is to force people to take stances. For example YM seems to be pretty much in agreement with me, while sand is in opposition, from sand's strong stance and willingness to fight for the spotlight its easy to see he dosn't care if people focus on him, a town trait.
You miss this because you are too busy dismissing it as "spam". I agree that hiro has yet to post anything of substance, yet after bashing talking about a "pro-town atmosphere" you go on to quote a post about the pro-town atmosphere as being one of the best.
I notice you don't actually accuse hiro of being scum though. Care to commit with your vote? Also the cynical tone is typical of mafia players. Its a distancing mechanism, since you feel isolated and threatened. Nice light FoS on me without substance too.
I like how you manage to both belittle all discussion AND start smearing doubt around. This post alone *reeks* of being mafia. I'm not going to be wishywashy about it either.
##Vote: TheAwesomeAll
Quick, expand your FoS on hiro into something larger, something NOT spammy Mr. "This town is all spam"
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On June 28 2011 16:47 TheAwesomeAll wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:25 GMarshal wrote:On June 28 2011 16:14 sandroba wrote: OK, I'm very convinced GM is scum right now. The fact that LSB died is plain and simple. The moment he proposed his plan he was confirmed town, as no mafia would ever propose a plan like that. The reason I think he is mafia is because 1) He ninja'ed me and identified it, and as such we know he is capable of doing it (I don't think any other player realise this yet, amongst the active) 2) He claimed to have thought of the plan, but as scum he obviously did not mention it until LSB did. 3) He's pushing vigs to shoot lurkers, when clearly mafia won't be there. 4) YM is posting completely anti-town stuff about blues. Mafia still has 2 kp left so LOL at medics not protecting people today. Also RB doesn't do shit to vigilante. The fact that GM did not catch on this can only mean 1 of the 2: YM is also scum with GM or YM is tripping hard and GM knows he's town and must maintain his position earlier of YM being town to not rise any suspicion. Either way GM is scum. Sure thing. Please post a more coherent argument. Let me reply to what you have 1.) Duh, anyone with a braincell should have known LSB was town. 2.) I thought of a *similar* plan, but I couldn't (still can't) think of a way to make use of it without having DTs claim. I am against ousting blue roles. 3.) Yes I am. I made my case why, and you should understand it. Vigis have a lurker only KP, they might as well use it, no? All lurkers are traitors, by definition. Ace said it best in my first game, I think, kill scum, and those who will not help you kill scum (not an exact quote, but I don't feel like looking it up) 4.) He admitted to fucking up with the medic thing, because he thought scum had 1 kp. If I think someone is scum I call them out on it. I just think YM is playing poorly, but not necessarily scummy. remember what we said about bad plans? Hell I missed that he made a posts about medics till you pointed it out and I had to go back and check. I don't see your case, but if you bring up any new points I will gladly answer them, so far it seems to me that you are dead set on me being mafia for some reason. I won't appeal to meta, but my alignment should be evident by now. Me as a humble humble noob town see it as my only goal to kill scum, So vigis PLEASE kill lurkers that smell like scum, but dont get to exited. Mafia is spamming the thread up right now, since mafia isnt stupid. They will make sure that every anti lurker action will work in their advantage. Vigis please be aware of this and dont use your power just because you can, and Definetly not because GM tells you to. Also GM youre spamming the technical issues up like no tomorrow, also the lists. Why the lists GM? Who wants to know the more experienced players i ask you? Town can judge for themself you know who could use a list of good players before they got the chance to voice their opinion? scumchaos asked, I provided, fulfilling a simple request with benefits I outlined already is scummy? Let me reiterate why they are good. For the third or so time. 1.) They are a resource for later in the game. If all the vets but two are dead those should be scrutinized. 2.) It makes the mafia wifom about shooting there as it places pressure on the *other* vets. 3.) Its a decent resource for players who have no idea of who is who. 4.) Provided some immediate discussion Your last question makes no sense to me, please re-write it in a form I can understand. If what you are saying is that it benefits mafia then you fail to grasp that the mafia 100% has at least one vet, for balance purposes, they already know that information, the only people who don't are newbie greens and blues. Hint mafia *isn't* spamming, they are making simple posts that aren't quite lurking, but that serve no purpose, fluffy posts to be clear. No duh vigis should shoot scummier lurkers, but lurkers by DEFENITION have little to base reads on, which is why they are being shot in the first place. How do you judge how "scummy" someone with 5 posts is? Anything else? ^_^
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FML, EBWOP
On June 28 2011 16:47 TheAwesomeAll wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:25 GMarshal wrote:On June 28 2011 16:14 sandroba wrote: OK, I'm very convinced GM is scum right now. The fact that LSB died is plain and simple. The moment he proposed his plan he was confirmed town, as no mafia would ever propose a plan like that. The reason I think he is mafia is because 1) He ninja'ed me and identified it, and as such we know he is capable of doing it (I don't think any other player realise this yet, amongst the active) 2) He claimed to have thought of the plan, but as scum he obviously did not mention it until LSB did. 3) He's pushing vigs to shoot lurkers, when clearly mafia won't be there. 4) YM is posting completely anti-town stuff about blues. Mafia still has 2 kp left so LOL at medics not protecting people today. Also RB doesn't do shit to vigilante. The fact that GM did not catch on this can only mean 1 of the 2: YM is also scum with GM or YM is tripping hard and GM knows he's town and must maintain his position earlier of YM being town to not rise any suspicion. Either way GM is scum. Sure thing. Please post a more coherent argument. Let me reply to what you have 1.) Duh, anyone with a braincell should have known LSB was town. 2.) I thought of a *similar* plan, but I couldn't (still can't) think of a way to make use of it without having DTs claim. I am against ousting blue roles. 3.) Yes I am. I made my case why, and you should understand it. Vigis have a lurker only KP, they might as well use it, no? All lurkers are traitors, by definition. Ace said it best in my first game, I think, kill scum, and those who will not help you kill scum (not an exact quote, but I don't feel like looking it up) 4.) He admitted to fucking up with the medic thing, because he thought scum had 1 kp. If I think someone is scum I call them out on it. I just think YM is playing poorly, but not necessarily scummy. remember what we said about bad plans? Hell I missed that he made a posts about medics till you pointed it out and I had to go back and check. I don't see your case, but if you bring up any new points I will gladly answer them, so far it seems to me that you are dead set on me being mafia for some reason. I won't appeal to meta, but my alignment should be evident by now. Me as a humble humble noob town see it as my only goal to kill scum, So vigis PLEASE kill lurkers that smell like scum, but dont get to exited. Mafia is spamming the thread up right now, since mafia isnt stupid. They will make sure that every anti lurker action will work in their advantage. Vigis please be aware of this and dont use your power just because you can, and Definetly not because GM tells you to. Also GM youre spamming the technical issues up like no tomorrow, also the lists. Why the lists GM? Who wants to know the more experienced players i ask you? Town can judge for themself you know who could use a list of good players before they got the chance to voice their opinion? scum
chaos asked, I provided, fulfilling a simple request with benefits I outlined already is scummy?
Let me reiterate why they are good. For the third or so time. 1.) They are a resource for later in the game. If all the vets but two are dead those should be scrutinized. 2.) It makes the mafia wifom about shooting there as it places pressure on the *other* vets. 3.) Its a decent resource for players who have no idea of who is who. 4.) Provided some immediate discussion
Your last question makes no sense to me, please re-write it in a form I can understand. If what you are saying is that it benefits mafia then you fail to grasp that the mafia 100% has at least one vet, for balance purposes, they already know that information, the only people who don't are newbie greens and blues.
Hint mafia *isn't* spamming, they are making simple posts that aren't quite lurking, but that serve no purpose, fluffy posts to be clear.
No duh vigis should shoot scummier lurkers, but lurkers by DEFENITION have little to base reads on, which is why they are being shot in the first place. How do you judge how "scummy" someone with 5 posts is?
Anything else? ^_^
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United States22154 Posts
On June 28 2011 16:56 TheAwesomeAll wrote:hmm GMs last post is actually pretty good, however since your afraid of lylos let me paint one for you: 2 lurking townies 1 active townie 1 lurking maffia and 1 active . sounds horrible right? If all the lurkers were killed mafia had already won that situation, lurking is bad, scare people all you want, But keep in mind that every shot townie will hurt us a LOT. Thats why advocating careless shooting is anti town, now youre no noob and probably now this. Thats why i think you are scummy Give it a good thought. + Show Spoiler +giving scary lylo situations isnt that usefull for the town either btw, just focus on lynching scum, since after all this theorycrafting, no blue would know where to shoot If you killed ONE lurker the others would be scared into posting ^_^
And I'll take lylo 8v5 or something like that with all active players over lylo at 3v1 with no active players any day. Trust me, lurkers are a nightmare to read. Sure, focus on lynching scum, but give the lurkers a nice solid reason not to lurk. Bullets to the brain are as solid as reasons get.
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United States22154 Posts
On June 28 2011 17:08 TheAwesomeAll wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 16:54 GMarshal wrote:On June 28 2011 16:40 TheAwesomeAll wrote:No surprise, the thread is being spammed up with nothing but technical issues "lets create a pro town atmosphere" and references to old mafia games. Dont spent any more posts on the new interesting format!~ New formats in general favor scum because they are allowed to talk about technical issues the first day, town shoots some noob/lurker and everyone is happy. The lurker mechanism is just a call to spam, but GMarshal is really pushing it. Your clock is ticking, cute. This is the one of the few good posts made so far: On June 28 2011 14:44 sinani206 wrote:Pro-Town atmosphere would ideally be: - No taking lead.
Being a "leader" seems really scummy to me. I just have this innate bias that leaders are mafia, and even though there is quite a slim chance of them being scum, if they are, town has already lost.
- No spamming.
As has been mentioned before, all spamming does is derail town. It makes posts hard to find and confuses people so that scum are harder to analyse and pin for what they really are.
- Active scumhunting.
Scumhunting is obviously very pro-town. It gives the town a good discussion point and helps (obviously) find mafia. No reason not to do this.
- No lurking.
Lurking is confusing for all players who aren't lurking. It makes you hard to analyse. Obviously with all the anti-lurking abilities in this game, it isn't much of an issue, but keep this in mind.
That pretty much covers it. If anyone has any additions, feel free to share. Keep all of these points in mind when posting and analyzing. Off to play some SotIS and then go to sleep. Probably won't check the thread until morning. Good night folks! So instead of another technical issue or something im going to point the first FoS in the game. The most spammy player in the game: On June 28 2011 12:13 hiro protagonist wrote: Sup town!
I am 100% behind Gmarshal about lurkers/trolls. that is all I have to say about that.
so everyone, lets get into it: towns lurker KP should be used once any lurker list is up. As such, I doubt very much that we will need to do a policy lynch on lurkers (which is something I almost always advocate).
Conversely: mafia, with the lurker mod on, will try and be spammy. Vigs, please,please,PLEASE, just shoot anyone that is cluttering up the thread with nonsense.
yeah... On June 28 2011 12:39 hiro protagonist wrote:On June 28 2011 12:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On June 28 2011 12:20 youngminii wrote:On June 28 2011 12:13 hiro protagonist wrote: Sup town!
I am 100% behind Gmarshal about lurkers/trolls. that is all I have to say about that.
so everyone, lets get into it: towns lurker KP should be used once any lurker list is up. As such, I doubt very much that we will need to do a policy lynch on lurkers (which is something I almost always advocate).
Conversely: mafia, with the lurker mod on, will try and be spammy. Vigs, please,please,PLEASE, just shoot anyone that is cluttering up the thread with nonsense.
Do not do this, Vig you should be targeting who they feel is scum, not anyone that is spammy. First off, scum are not stupid, they won't be spamming up the thread for the sake of spamming the thread. Second, by saying "just shoot anyone that is cluttering up the thread with nonsense" in the thread will obviously signal scum to be very delicate and careful with their posting. FoS on you for this, it's a very flawed plan, everyone knows what a lurker is and what's not, if someone appears to be spammy and their playstyle lines up with scum then go ahead and shoot them but as soon as you start directing who the Vig should hit publically is when mafia get an advantage. Also, since lurking is defined by third party judgement, there's a chance that Spammers will also show up on the lurker list, due to quality of posts and actual word count. Shoot who you think is scummy, not who you think is worthless. -_- Your right, Vigs should hit those who are scummy. Those that are Spamming the thread are acting scummy. I didn't make a plan, I was giving out words of wisdom. Don't twist my words please. @Wiggles: you remember PTP right? I don't want that to happen with this thread... talking about lurkers like his live depends on it, i would love it if people stopped mentioning other games without explanation. On June 28 2011 13:06 hiro protagonist wrote: @LSB: What do you have in mind? speaking for myself, I cant think of a way to abuse it because the list is chosen from a 3rd party... The lurker mechanism is soooooo interesting. And to top it all of, something that is so ridiculously safe to post On June 28 2011 13:34 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, chaos, he is a list:
GMarshal youngminii Jackal58 ~OpZ~ Mr. Wiggles Kenpachi
these are the most skilled/vets players in this game. Fun fact: GMarshal has never been lynched as town. Another fun fact: Mr. Wiggles has been mafia the last 2 games I played with him.
The following players I would describe as skilled, or at least very active when playing town:
DropBear Cthsazsa Mig sandroba VisceraEyes Palmar Varpulis
Everyone else I have no experience playing with. a list. A No Information List to be exact. You know the thing noob scum (like me in XL) post. Safe free town cred. please please please stop the spamThe other guy im keeping an eye on is GMarshal. /applause. You just shot down all town discussion and missed the major point of the lurker discussion, which is to force people to take stances. For example YM seems to be pretty much in agreement with me, while sand is in opposition, from sand's strong stance and willingness to fight for the spotlight its easy to see he dosn't care if people focus on him, a town trait. You miss this because you are too busy dismissing it as "spam". I agree that hiro has yet to post anything of substance, yet after bashing talking about a "pro-town atmosphere" you go on to quote a post about the pro-town atmosphere as being one of the best. I notice you don't actually accuse hiro of being scum though. Care to commit with your vote? Also the cynical tone is typical of mafia players. Its a distancing mechanism, since you feel isolated and threatened. Nice light FoS on me without substance too. I like how you manage to both belittle all discussion AND start smearing doubt around. This post alone *reeks* of being mafia. I'm not going to be wishywashy about it either. ##Vote: TheAwesomeAll Quick, expand your FoS on hiro into something larger, something NOT spammy Mr. "This town is all spam" wow sorry GM did i step on some toes? Please expand more on that discussion, maybe i missed it, who are being accused, what valuable information did we gain? all i saw was spam spam spam, you know that town atmosphere of yours. Except talking about it, what did you do? did you give any points town should follow, did you create any discussion, did you *gasp* make an analysis? I must have missed all of that, dont expect me to post again untill ive read EVERYTHING 3 times at least, cya Edit without edit: it might have been unfair to blame you for the list, it was chaos question. Chaos gave the oportunity for a perfect mafia blend in. Not accusing you just saying it was chaosses fault, since it was an opportunity to post without information, to dissapear from any nasty lurker lists, to seem helpfull without doing anything really. And yes, why did you vote for me? didnt like the pressure? A good tactice to discourage anything is to punish the first guy who does it, since no second will come without a first right? Well the first guy to stick his neck out got a vote and the careless fos of the allmighty town leader. Sure as hell makes your case worse I voted for you because your post was scummy in my eyes. It still is. Sand voted for me like 3 hours ago, but the way he went about accusing me was pretty townie, so I don't suspect him for it.
We are 7 hours in, no I have no analysis. My first 30 or so hours will be spent generating discussion and figuring out who I think is green from their posting. I'll also be figuring out who is mafia or pushing mafia objectives.
Finally the atmosphere seems good to me, no flaming, discussion is proceeding, people are being gentlemanly, right now its good that people are talking. I'm not going to post who I have concluded is town, because I have no interest in painting targets on their back, thank you very much. So far my scum reads are pretty soft, but as more people post I should be able to figure out a nice day 1 candidate. Read, carefully, the thread, a lot of valuable information has been revealed.
For now my vote is staying on you, since I want to see you tick ^_^
Also it is now 4:15 am in my local area so I'm off to sleep. See you all in the morning!
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United States22154 Posts
It wasn't OMGUS, as far as I'm concerned, he said "I'm keeping my eye on GM", but I voted for him because I felt like his post was 1.) Cynic and bashing our efforts thus far 2.) Weak as hell, he had an accusation of hiro, but no vote and about two lines of reasoning. Now I happen to agree with him, but I wanted to see him commit to voting hiro, to see how serious he is. Remember a mafia trait is to start wagons without committing to them. I wanted to see commitment. His reaction was interesting, but not damning, and he did vote for hiro, which assuaged some of my doubts, but I want to keep my vote on him till there is somewhere better to put it.
Sorry I went to bed, any other questions?
As for the person who said that promising analysis is scummy, its only scummy when you don't deliver, I will, its just I like to dedicate most of day 1 to information gathering. ^_^
(and TAA, I love smilies, I use them a lot. See experimental mafia II for other "cutesy" things I like, I'm very eccentric )
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United States22154 Posts
On June 29 2011 01:26 TheAwesomeAll wrote:
FoS list
hiro GM syllogism Drazerk
Please, please, please keep it down to one or two candidates day 1, too many FoSes only causes chaos and disjointed voting. If you want to push my case go for it, but limit yourself to that and maybe one other, posting 4 mafia candidates allows the mafia to push whichever ones they want from that list, while ignoring the guilty.
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