TL Mafia XLIV
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chaoser
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1) Town should stay focused. A few talking points should dominate a day cycle but never so many that it's basically everyone posting suspicions on everyone else, leading to "post-by-post analysis" of 5+ people. A disorganized town is a plus for the mafia. 2) Don't rely on power roles. Assume we have none and go from there. 3) Personally I like a bit of civility but I do understand some people like to be aggressive and it has it's uses. But let's keep the atmosphere positive instead of negative. Negative atmosphere will be detrimental to town play and at the end of the day that isn't good. | ||
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"No Kurumi I'm saying Town KP should shoot lurkers period" - Navillus We shouldn't use town KP on them for a variety of reasons: 1) Some players, if they get a blue role, like to play in a lurkish manner. No matter what argument one can make for them to feel safe about talking, etc., they will generally stick to their play style. 2) If they are truly inactive, they will be modkilled. 3) "I'm not dumb enough to say lurkers should be the top priority kills, just good options at any time." The idea that killing lurkers "is a good option at any time" is a nonviable idea because aside from the first day, the topic of lurkers is usually going to be relegated to the background. This is because some issue will inevitably pop up and then discussion will be dominated by that issue/topic. In those cases our town KP will generally be spent trying to clear up those issues. 4) Vigis and Mad Hatters should operate on their own judgement. That's the point of the roles. Instead of having to navigate through the bureaucratic mess that is the town vote, they can decide on their own who is mafia and then act upon it. Directing or forming some policy about how to use town KP is detrimental to the Vigi/Mad Hatter roles. I trust that players have good judgement on their own to read the thread, see what's going on, and make their own calls on what is the best course of action. We can always beseech the KP be used for a specific purpose but at the end of the day it's their call. | ||
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You quoted my post and then wrote this: + Show Spoiler + This is a pretty good outline of how we want to proceed, point 1 is definitely the right thing to do, for example of a good talking point: lynch kurumi for spamming up the thread. Point 2 is also right and just to say the implication of that is do a lot of analysis, look at how people act look at how they change over the thread, where they vote, what they claim and what they do, don't hope for a bunch of really obvious scumslips where people all but admit they are scum, also don't put too much into what looks like a "slip" strong analysis over time is much better. And for point 3 really I'll just add make this a good town environment, we want to be civil we also don't want someone to be able to get shouted down when 2 or 3 people disagree with him, keep it orderly and please don't make personal attacks, that is all. which pretty much could have been summed up in five words: "I agree with these points" It was a whole lot of nothing. You then push the policy that Town KP should be used, when we have no good options, on lurkers. So three points: 1) Be more concise 2) If you were a vigi and had to shoot someone right now, who would it be and why? 3) What do you think about Palmer? Finally, can people stop responding like this is fucking instant messenger? We just got a whole page of one liners between 5 people about shitall. | ||
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I agree with Foolishness. Even more so since after Foolishness' vote for you, you've posted once and then went completely quiet. What's up MIG? | ||
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On August 17 2011 02:45 chaoser wrote: /in, assuming this starts next week sometime lol Currently on an ER shift (taking 30 minute dinner break) and I saw people asking about why I wasn't as active as I usually am. I had already said next week would be best for me but I have shifts in the ER till 10 tonight and tomorrow I have a full day as well. Don't get your panties in a bunch please and do realize you can't always depend on vets to make a dent in the game play. That's mostly the reason why so many older players rarely play (also time commitment is an issue). | ||
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This only matters, of course, if you're telling the truth. I've seen mafia claim to be roleblocked when they really haven't been, I really wouldn't put it pass mafia to claim they were also hit, especially if it's you who is claiming to be blocked. I'll have to sleep on this. That being said, mig, I have a question: Your meta argument is null at best, you say I don't post with attitude as town yet you provide no examples of me doing it as mafia. you said that to foolishness about him using meta to place suspicions against you but then you turn around and post this: chaoser is playing completely out of character for his town play and is contributing nothing when he is a very strong player. and yet have not provided examples of me acting the way I did as mafia. A bit hypocritical don't you think? What's with the flip flopping on stances? On one hand, you don't accept meta when it's against you, but on the other you use it freely against others? And to foolishness, mig seems like the one you are most suspicious of, and yet instead of voting for him and pushing hard, you backed off with a "I wouldn't mind lynching mig" followed by a "rayzorflash is an outstanding issue as well" When I was mafia in XXXVII I basically posted just that about a teammate and this was noted by Ver as something that mafia would do. Why aren't you pushing harder on mig? | ||
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##vote Mig | ||
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On August 22 2011 17:51 Mig wrote: Chaoser you are technically correct but really you are twisting my words around to try and make me appear scummy. Not all meta arguments are the same, you didn't see me disagreeing with other meta arguments foolish had made in the thread. But his meta argument about how my "attitude" was different and therefore mafia was incorrect. He provided no examples of me acting that way as mafia and that attitude hadn't done anything to hurt the town. My meta argument against you was completely different. As town I have seen you dominate and put a ton of effort into scum hunting. This game I see you writing complete fluff posts and providing no analysis while making an excuse for being busy. Anyone can look at your play in mafia 39 and see how different it is compared to this game. Foolishness' meta argument didn't show one way or the other whether I was town and it didn't show how I was harming the town with my play however your play style is a complete 180 from your normal town play and is considerably worse than normal for you. So instead of providing any real analysis this game you started off with A) writing fluff posts B) voted for me basically just saying yea I agree with foolish then disappeared before the lynch and now C) you are twisting my words around to make me appear scummy when it should be obvious how different my argument was from the one foolish made. #Vote: chaoser 1) Isn't my being aggressive in XXXVII and my being less aggressive Day 1 in this game a change in "attitude"? Now you're just nitpicking over words and what they mean; what he said in one word you said in a sentence. 2) Aside from the fact that my post aren't fluff posts (see XXXVIII, see XXXIX where town players Kavdragon and redtooth both posted similarly to how I posted and later in analysis were praised by Ver/Qatol/etc. for creating a pro-town environment, especially for newbies.) While everyone likes to say "why post here when people can just read in the guides?" the truth of the matter is that people, especially newbies, rarely go read the guides in-depth. I would rather post basic outlines here and know there's a better chance that people will read it then hope they checked out the guides. Once again, you are nit picking and being deceitful, mister "I reference older games but only the parts I want to reference" The rest of your pots after this one are all either WIFOM against other people or overreacting (which I'm sure you're aware, caught me a few mafia in XXXIX) | ||
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On August 22 2011 18:12 Palmar wrote: I think I've made my opinions pretty damn clear, but I've made some fundamental mistakes this game that stop town from considering my opinions as valid. I think I have laid down the most detailed analysis of someone in the thread that isn't completely based on meta, and I stand by my conclusions in that one. I'm fine with lynching Mig actually, there are multiple mafia in this game, and unlike sevryn I'd actually give him a 50% chance of flipping red. I'm much more convinced BB is scum though. I don't know Chaoser's meta so the argument made against him may therefore look weaker to me than it should. Hopefully others who know him will correctly push his lynch if they're right. Just to rehash, this remains my opinion: Forgive me if I'm just misreading what you wrote but are you saying BB is suspicious cause he wants to focus on inactives/lurkers because of the statement: If DropBear's gonna be active and making plans, I'm inclined to NOT lynch him day 1, because it means one less inactive jackass dragging us down. Plus, the more active he is, the sooner he'll slip up if he actually is scum. when Navillus' main point day 1 was basically let's focus on killing as many inactives as possible, this will put the fear in them and make them more active and Foolishness' main point for wanting a mig lynch over a sevryn lynch is also about how sevryn will be more active? It's more about opportunity cost at this point. If Sevryn is mafia we can expect him to be inactive the rest of today, tonight, and tomorrow if we leave him alone. If he's town he will be active and posting his own thoughts. Half way through tomorrow it should be immediately clear what his role is. Also your point mentions one anecdotal example of "that's how I thought as mafia", which I hardly think is strong evidence of anything. Can I ask why you went after BB for one reason while you were silent about the others that also fell into that reason? Why not go after narvillus or foolishness? Harder targets? | ||
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Just had to get that out of the way first. Just had to get that out of the way first. Just had to get that out of the way first. Just had to get that out of the way first. | ||
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@Curu: His vote is an OMGUS onto Mig and he's done no real scumhunting or Town contributions of his own. Read the thread a bit closer please, Mig OMGUS'd me and I've given town "contribution of my own" plenty. Palmer didn't even respond back to me about my post/question to him: + Show Spoiler + On August 23 2011 00:40 chaoser wrote: + Show Spoiler [Quote from Palmar] + On August 22 2011 18:12 Palmar wrote: I think I've made my opinions pretty damn clear, but I've made some fundamental mistakes this game that stop town from considering my opinions as valid. I think I have laid down the most detailed analysis of someone in the thread that isn't completely based on meta, and I stand by my conclusions in that one. I'm fine with lynching Mig actually, there are multiple mafia in this game, and unlike sevryn I'd actually give him a 50% chance of flipping red. I'm much more convinced BB is scum though. I don't know Chaoser's meta so the argument made against him may therefore look weaker to me than it should. Hopefully others who know him will correctly push his lynch if they're right. Just to rehash, this remains my opinion: Forgive me if I'm just misreading what you wrote but are you saying BB is suspicious cause he wants to focus on inactives/lurkers because of the statement: when Navillus' main point day 1 was basically let's focus on killing as many inactives as possible, this will put the fear in them and make them more active and Foolishness' main point for wanting a mig lynch over a sevryn lynch is also about how sevryn will be more active? Also your point mentions one anecdotal example of "that's how I thought as mafia", which I hardly think is strong evidence of anything. Can I ask why you went after BB for one reason while you were silent about the others that also fell into that reason? Why not go after narvillus or foolishness? Harder targets? | ||
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On August 23 2011 18:34 Erandorr wrote: Good morning Foolish, I for one can tell you that I absolutely have diverted attention away from Mig. Why ? Because I am not buying it as of yet. Do I think Mig might be Scum? He may very well be. But what I have tried to say earlier already is that if you ignore the experiences you already have with a player, your whole meta argument, then your suspicions seem not as strong. That does not mean Mig is town by any means, but there are people i think of as equally scummy, if not more, and right now I do not see the reason not to vote for those I have listed before. Scummy ass line, town doesn't usually feel the need to qualify their statements as such. That being said wtf Dropbear....a fake claim of DT into ??? claim of medic? The reason why I fake claimed DT in XXXIX was because I had PUSHED for that one person the whole day and decided to take a calculated risk. If I was wrong, vigi would shoot me and I'd survive since I was vet, confirming me. If I was right, mafia would obviously stack two hits on me and since I was a vet, all I needed was a medic to protect me and all of the mafia's hits would have been wasted that night...my head hurts...I need to rethink things... | ||
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Dropbear's odd timing and then his claim as the medic that saved Foolishness, combined with the fact that no one has counterclaimed it leads me to trust his claim. As a consequence of that I trust Foolishness to be town. | ||
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On August 24 2011 04:45 Curu wrote: Thanks for the post discussing nothing relevant to what's happened recently. We get it, you want to OMGUS Mig. Is that all you have? A constant smattering of 5 letters and some snarkiness that has less strength than a fart in an empty room? You are no mafia, you're a fool and an idiot if I ever saw one. I have discussed everything of relevance already, what is there for me to speak more of? I am most sure of mig being mafia, I trust both DB' claim and Foolishness' green townie status, and I care not to waste my energies chasing false targets in xtfftc. I am open, though, to discussion about rayzorflash | ||
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Medic protects: Foolishness DropBear Jackal Watchers: Foolishness DropBear | ||
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Take care of mig, then we take care of BB. ##Vote: Mig | ||
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Did you see my case against DB? Every person who has voted me foolish/chaoser/you has completely ignored everything I did day2. Tell me how I wasn't helpful yesterday? I actively scum hunted and I provided GOOD analysis. Your case against Dropbear was hardly "good analysis", I think foolishness covers it pretty well in a post of his against it. It seemed very much like a mafia trying very hard to find a tiny scrap of information from which to say "Look! I'm useful!". Your asking for a switch from hiro to chaos13 was 1) way too late to actually do anything, and you knew it 2) it didn't matter to you who was lynched as long as it wasn't YOUSELF. You didn't risk your life, you knew you were safe at that point. You're mafia and I will not let you live for yet another day. Thankfully I finished my two tests today so I will fight tooth and nail to get you lynched. | ||
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"offers to vote himself to get a lynch… if he is scum he won’t follow through, if he is town he shouldn’t do it just to get a confirmed , dead townie." to hiro and then later when hiro votes for himself, all nard can say is: "hiro: a self-vote? why in heavens.. this makes no sense from any perspective at all. if you are town, try to defend yourself properly instead of making sure you get lynched. if you're scum... do the same lol." and doesn't even change his vote. Clearly hiro "followed through" and thus not scum since "scum wouldn't follow through". Suspicious.2) lucidity - Aside from one very confusing and rambling post about...DB? hiro? he's done nothing for town. He started out the game trying to start discussion but then never follows up. His case against supersoft is basically "you didn't lynch that townie cause you knew he was townie! You're mafia" He talk about not understanding mig's reaction to DB's claim but he previously said that he didn't trust DB either and wanted to lynch. He keeps saying mig is scum, mig is scum, but he never votes for him, always opting for the second option. He looks like he's fake bussing his teammate, trying to look like he's bussing him but then never tryign to actually get him killed. Suspicous 3) Trotske - Can't even tell, he posted on Day 1 and that was about it. He charges straight out the door and says he's suspicious of you and then doesn't mention it again, picking rayzor as a good alternate lynch. I would peg him for town solely due to the fact that he afked, risked a modkill, and only was replaced cause GM is nice. Between the three nard and lucidity are the most suspicious as sleeper lurker mafia Out of the three, I'm most suspicious of lucidity and nard, one or both are probably lurking mafia | ||
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On August 27 2011 08:31 Lucidity wrote: Can anyone tell me why Mig is a better lynch than BB? It might be too late to switch now, but you guys seem to think that Mig is a better lynch regardless of time constraints. (Sorry for the double post of one liners) Go read the posts against him earlier in the day, then go read my first post against him and a few of my followups. Finally read some of foolishness' posts against him. There's tons of stuff out there. | ||
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On August 28 2011 01:32 Foolishness wrote: What do you think of the following 3 people then? 1) nard 2) Lucidity 3) Trotske/iGrok Foolishness, what are your takes on them? I asked before and you didn't answer. | ||
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I am a DT Inquisitor - welcome to TL Mafia XLIV you are High Inquisitor Scarn, here in liquidia on independent assignment to lead the actions against the cult. You are perhaps the oldest living inquisitor, and with age comes experience and wisdom . You scorn weapons as below the dignity of an Inquisitor, instead you will use your investigative abilities to crush the cult.You may check a player each night and see if he is Innocent or Guilty . Be cautious however, ever since you took a blow to the head while facing off against the Deamon Lord Sepultus in the ancient abandoned temple of the burning flame you have been unsure of the reliability of your investigative abilities and even of your grasp on reality. I checked Mig night one and got back guilty which is why I've been on his ass for so long. To check my own sanity I checked Foolishness night two and got back green so I know I'm sane. When mig flipped red it proved it beyond a doubt. I checked vain last night and got back [r]red[/r]. I say we lynch vain today over since I'm more sure of his scumminess over nard's. EDITTED: in exactly how my pm looks | ||
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On August 28 2011 11:27 chaos13 wrote: chaoser if you had played more pro-town I would be more likely to believe you. For today I'll go with nard over Vain. How did I not play pro-town...I fucking was the first person on mig...come again? I tried to set up a good town atmosphere early game and had it not been for palmer we would have had it. | ||
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Not to mention what do you want me to do? I checked mig night one cause I was suspicious of him and I've been on his ass for the last two day. I HAD to check foolishness (GM didn't allow me to check myself) since I didn't know my own sanity and since I was 90% sure he was townie because DropBear claimed he saved him. What about you? You were so dead set on a Vain lynch before: My #1 pick for a lynch tomorrow would be Vain though. That guy is scum. and now you're backing off. | ||
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wtf...why the hell did you reveal now and not later in the day? What's the difference between revealing now and later in the day? Later in the day everyone already has settled into a topic, I'd rather get it out of the way and have everyone talk about it rather than psot it midway through the cycle and break up conversation | ||
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Besides, why claim at all? The less information mafia have about our roles, the better. Since we probably don't have a medic now, you're probably dead tomorrow. You're the most useful player to us if you're indeed a DT. I'm dead tomorrow regardless, if the mafia kill foolishness they'll be willing to kill me. Though since foolishness is a watcher...maybe there's another watcher out there so mafia should be weary. | ||
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On August 28 2011 12:21 xtfftc wrote: I'm inclined to trust Chaoser. I don't understand why it was necessary to claim immediately as quite a few people are willing to lynch Vain anyway. Convincing us to go for him was definitely a possibility even without the claim. However, if Vain flips green, Chaoser will get lynched afterwards, so it makes no sense for mafia to attempt this. Unless it's some really bold plan by mafia to trade one for one but the numbers don't work out in their favour. Chaoser, I'm curious why you decided to check Vain out of all? Since it's mid game now, I wanted to check the lurkers since they would be the hardest to read once we get to late game. I was choosing between pyo and vain and picked vain due to his bullshit vote on mig: On August 27 2011 09:56 Vain wrote: Fuuuuuuuuuuu, i almost forgot this thing. yeah, Mig needs to be lynched and then BB i hope i'm right now:\ Vote: Mig He's worried about the result but he states that he "forgot this thing". His "I hope I'm right" is merely a throw away statement to make it seem like he cares when he clearly doesn't "I forgot". So I checked him and got back guilty. I'm 100% I'm sane so it should be correct. | ||
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If nard visited a person who died, he's almost certainly mafia. This is, of course, has to be what Foolish was saying, because he was a watcher and he was 100% sure nard is mafia. There is also a possibility that nard isn't mafia and is just nosy neighbor or possibly blue. If the person foolishness was looking at was killed by the godfather and nard also visited then foolishness would only see nard. This is why I said I trust foolishness' call as much as I trust my own. | ||
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@chaos13 There's no such thing as "100%". Foolishness either didn't account for the godfather or didn't account for random visits when he said 100%. I should know, I've thrown out possibilities due to them being so unlikely and they've come back to bite me in the ass. (See: http://i.imgur.com/5ROUu.png) BC never lets me live this down... Just something to chew on in the future If he had claimed blue, I would have been more hesitant but with a green claim, Vote: #nard bye bye. Tomorrow we lynch Vain and then hopefully we'll be down to lots'o town v 3 measly mafia | ||
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Everyone seems to have ignored this, but Kurumi basically dug his grave here. This flavour text wasn't written by GM. I have no idea why he wouldn't wait for GM to just write it for him, perhaps he was getting a little nervous, because he was taking too long. But that was written by Kurumi. He is the only person who writes "You" with a capital letter mid sentence. He hasn't responded to me yet either so.... LOLOLOL...if this is true HAHAHAHAHAHA | ||
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On August 29 2011 04:14 wherebugsgo wrote: Because I believe BB/bumatlarge to be framer, and vain to be framed last night. Look at Bum's posts over the past day. Or heck, just filter him all the way. He accuses vain as soon as he knows a DT checked him last night without even thinking twice, and continues to subtly push vain's name. Yeah, I know that goes against our thoughts and my own analysis on vain, but bum is definitely mafia. Kill him tomorrow. This is also why I am way more confident in lynching nard than vain. With vain, the likelihood of there being a red herring is much higher. The only possibility for nard to be innocent is to be a noisy neighbor, and that's only possible in a very unlikely manner. Plus, his defense post suggests that he is scum. Or it could all be a ploy, they're all mafia, and they're just trying to save the skin of one instead of having all three fall. I got a guilty on Vain, just as I got a guilty on Mig. I'm wont to lynch those that return red, especially those that I had previously suspected. The fact that you're backing off uneases me. | ||
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On August 30 2011 00:02 wherebugsgo wrote: No, actually, if we want to be productive we can't kill vain, especially not tomorrow. We kill nard today, and Bum tomorrow. That will give us sufficient information to find the remaining 3 mafia and lynch them. Also, I did consider that vain could be a regular goon but that doesn't add up to me. Even if vain is actually just a goon we still should kill bum before vain. Of the remaining mafia, I agree that Pyo is a top suspect, but also Viscera. My analysis of viscera will come after I get out of class today-it's not complicated. #6 is still a bit far away. So, we can worry about the last 1/2 mafia after we lynch nard and bum. Right now you're completely being irrational. We have no idea what the mafia's motives are and we have no real way of figuring it out. You're approaching the entire situation already assuming bumatlarge is mafia and then trying to fit everything around it. You went so far as to throw away your own (very valid I might add) opinions on vain. You're looking at everything with bum-tinted-glasses and this is exactly what foolishness DIDN'T want to do. As Mig pointed out, I was hesitant today to respond to Mig's posts because I feel like I cannot objectively read them. Anything I read of Mig's I just see the mafia in him. But other people (particularly Curu and wherebugsgo) have been able to analyze his arguments today without the subjectivity that I have, and they still want to kill Mig. That's all the proof I need that Mig is the correct lynch choice today. You need to step back and re-approach the situation. What are you takes on supersoft, xtfftc, and Pyo? | ||
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Who are your mafia reads? | ||
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On August 30 2011 11:34 wherebugsgo wrote: You don't find his claim post weird? I didn't really think anything of kurumi until his claim. However, if you look at all his posts/actions, the only thing of significance is that he vigged Palmar. There is no way to discern whether he is a scum vig or a town vig. The only hint toward one or the other is the claim post, and as has been pointed out already, only kurumi capitalizes "you" in the middle of sentences. Me too, I just have a different conclusion. I still say we lynch bum today. We're going to lynch him eventually. We KNOW he's mafia. I want to know for certain his role as mafia, though, because IMO that'll give us more information than anything else. Just think about it. You think vain and bum are mafia. Will lynching vain give us any information about other mafia? Most definitely no. Will bum's lynch? Yeah, almost definitely, because we know pyo was the only other one who voted vain. The reason I want to lynch vain is because I think he's possibly the roleblocker, that's why. If brownbear was still in the game I'd have probably read it the way you did but since it's bumatlarge I'm more in line of thinking that it's all a giant double layered ploy, which I've seen him pull before. | ||
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On August 30 2011 11:47 wherebugsgo wrote: And about Kurumi? So you think the four mafia are like: bum/vain/pyo ...?? viscera? Rayzor? I guess the last one isn't immediately important, but even so...I'll vote bum tomorrow, you vote vain, we can just all vote whoever we think is the better lynch. Assuming they're both alive, of course...if we miraculously have a vig that'd be great. What do you think of Kurumi's claim? I'm most sure about vain/pyo/bum. I'm not sure about the last one. As for Kurumi, like you said, the only really weird thing standing out for him is his claim. And I think if he was really a mafia vigi he wouldn't telegraph it so far. He would have done it, waited to morning and then let mig claim he was the vigi. Mig was under pressure at that point and got lynched that day. If Kurumi was a vigi, he would have had mig breadcrumb it early the previous day (I think mig was pushing for palmer lynch) and then the next day mig could claim to throw suspicion off himself. | ||
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On August 30 2011 12:32 wherebugsgo wrote: If we're working on the assumption that both vain and bum are mafia, then I say bum is the better choice because lynching bum gives us information. How hard is that to comprehend? Forget my thoughts for a second here and just reason that out. Lynching vain gives us info too though. Maybe I'm just not seeing it but how does lynching bum give us more info than lynching vain? | ||
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##Vote: bumatlarge | ||
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LIES! Oh wait..you're in europe lol. My guess, they read my thing about watchers and are afraid, especially after foolishness nailed nard as a watcher. It's like in XXXVIII (prot game) where mafia couldn't hit confirmed townies (me, bum, DrH i think). I thought about it and Pyo is very very likely scummy. If bum is framer (He probably is now that I think about it since I don't think at that point Vain was a big vigi target) then Pyo was trying to do a late push for Vain to be lynched by agreeing with me about it and trying to discredit wherebugsgo. | ||
chaoser
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On August 31 2011 23:53 chaos13 wrote: I now have no idea who to vote for. chaoser - Claims DT with a red check on Vain. Not roleblocked, not hit. Doesn't vote for his red check today. Wherebugsgo - Flips tracker after stating that bumatlarge is probably a framer and Vain is not mafia. Good chance that he visited Vain, who didn't visit anyone. Possibility that Vain is GF. Possibility that he tracked bumatlarge who visited Vain. Possibility of both having tracked Vain and seeing he didn't visit anyone and tracking bumatlarge and seeing him visit Vain. Pyo - Claims DT at night. Has to be encouraged to post his checks, and doesn't post results. Later claims attempting to draw hits/roleblocks and claims naive DT with all green checks. I don't believe him, especially with the number of investigative roles that have already flipped/claimed. Possibility of being a sane DT and his targets actually green. Possibility of actually being a naive DT. Possibility of being a lying scumbag (most likely). Rayzorflash - Still a suspect for some reason. I'm not convinced on him. xtfftc - Still a suspect for some reason. I'm not convinced on him. BB/bumatlarge - Pretty damn scummy. Really wish WBG had left us more information here. Somebody check for breadcrumbs (In WBG's posts, not bum's) in the past day or two. I'd do it if I had the time right now. Post back with results. I suggest a couple people go look and post back so a mafia doesn't do it and fuck us all over. I would be comfortable voting for this guy today. Brief synopsis of my thoughts right now. Discuss. You're an idiot... 1) I probably didn't get visited by any mafia today cause they're scared of watchers. I'm voting Bum cause wherebugsgo, WHO FLIPPED TRACKER, posted that he saw bum visiting vain. So unless bum is blue, he's probably mafia. Either a framer or medic. If he's the former then vain is innocent, if he's the latter than vain is mafia. KK? 2) WTF wherebugsgo is dead?? Why would he be part of "no idea who to vote for?" And he didn't "visit Vain", he tracked bum TO Vain. There's NO possibility that Vain is GF in this wtf...he never tracked Vain, he tracked BUM. 3) You point on Pyo is 100% repeating other what other people have said and boils down to a summary of what's happened 4) Your part on xtfftc and rayzorflash is basically wasted words. 5) Asking for other people to do work instead of yourself: Somebody check for breadcrumbs (In WBG's posts, not bum's) in the past day or two. I'd do it if I had the time right now. Post back with results. I suggest a couple people go look and post back so a mafia doesn't do it and fuck us all over. If we weren't focused on bum today I'd be all over your scummy ass right now. | ||
chaoser
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Pyo has posted very little, most of which have been either responses to other player's ideas, rewordings of what others have said or questions. He never took any opinions of his own and hasn't contributed to town in the least, merely posting but not actually posting. But the thing I want to focus the most on is his DT Claim. In his first part of his claim yesterday, he states: Vain - I voted for him after having checked him, what do you think I think of him? Night 1 - jackal Night 2 - Vain Night 3 - Erandorr As for my sanity, if chaoser is really a DT and really is sane, then I know my sanity as well since we checked Vain on different nights. Which all seem to paint a picture that he knows exactly what sanity he is (sane). He even says he checked Vain and his result agreed with mine, suggesting that he was a sane DT and his checks were correct. What doesn't make sense is that when I stated that I checked Vain and he came out red, Pyo came up right behind the idea and voted for Vain, even though the previous day he had checked Vain himself and gotten green (since he now claims he is a naive DT). Even if he wasn't sure of his sanity, you'd think he'd be a least a little bit wary of what I said But he got behind me as quickly as I claimed, pushing for Vain to be lynched. Even now he pushes for vain's lynch even though wherebugsgo has posted his tracker list that highly suggests that bum is indeed a framer (now I understand why wherebugsgo was so sure of that argument). This added to the fact that he refused to give us his results, claimed DT at night to try to shape today's lynch to go towards Vain, and continue to push the idea after wherebugsgo has given us his track list, suggests that he is mafia pushing for a vain mislynch. We'll know for certain after this day's lynch cycle if there is a framer flip but I suggest a lynch for Pyo on the next day cycle. | ||
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On September 03 2011 05:52 Barundar wrote: Yup Pyo needs to hang to cut KP asap. I agree. ##vote: Pyo | ||
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I'm pretty sure that the scum team can be found within Rayzor, supersoft, chaos13 and Navillus To an OMGUS vote on me? Pretty desperate, especially since all my actions are 100% explainable. It wasn't a matter of convenience, it was a matter of I know how to play the game. Not only have I been calling out mig (with his contradiction) since day 1 (which is why I checked him night 1), got foolishness' approval day 2 along with a medic coming out to confirm him (thus my check on him to try to check sanity), and finally getting mig LYNCHED on day 3, but I also pointed out and then argued that lynching bum was the best choice yesterday when a lot of people totally missed that point. Scum must be sweating it out huh? After today's lynch you won't be able to kill me at all cause you'll have one KP and I'm sure we have 1 medic left over, as you must think since that's why you're so scared to hit me. | ||
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On August 28 2011 12:01 Pyo wrote: why would you claim now of all times... you have a whole day to push for a vain lynch and now you're dead tonight. Oh well, I guess we should at least make use of your inevitable death and lower mafia kp to 2 and force them to double tap you. #vote: Vain When previously you hadn't been posting much of anything? As summed up by wherebugsgo's post right after your post that I just quoted? On August 28 2011 12:05 wherebugsgo wrote: Dude, you better start posting more before I start tunneling you into doing that. You're just BARELY staying under the modkill threshold. Either you're mafia or you're just absolutely lazy. Anyway, if over the course of the next 48 hours you don't become more active, you will CERTAINLY become part of my shortlist for mafia #6. + Show Spoiler + of course, the caveat is that posting more won't actually save you either, you gotta actually contribute stuff to help us hunt mafia lol Bum followed suit soon after, being the SECOND person to immediately vote Vain without question. A coincidence? I think not. | ||
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what was suspicious wasn't that he had found a way to "confirm" himself, but rather that he would just happen to have investigated the target of the frame. And I didn't fake claim. So are you basing your case on me based on the fact that I happened to check someone who was being framed? Note that not only was Vain being talked about a lot the previous day but that he also made a good check at that point (Was suspected, not at the forefront of people's minds, lurker-ish). Bum is obviously a smart mafia player, for him to pick to frame vain isn't beyond him. Also, need I point you to this? More unlikely things have happened. My checking someone getting framed isn't that crazy/impossible a thing. I claimed at, what I think, was the perfect moment. Early in the cycle so that people could have time to analysis the situation (which I am glad for since it resulted in figuring out vain was framed), and just in time in the game so that mafia would have to decide on killing me with a double stack or going for two kills. My claim was two-fold as you can see, one was to get the info out and the other was, if mafia's KP was reduced, to give me a chance at not being shot at. It worked almost perfectly. | ||
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Now I have gone over some stuff and first off I don't think that Pyo is scum, look at his stuff at the beginning of the game, he seems pretty suspicious of mig even attacking him when palmar tries to defend him and calls both mig and BB scummy which just seems too dangerous for him to be scum to me. By call out BB and Mig do you mean this post? I'll start by saying that foolishness made a very convincing post about BB. At this point I'm leaning toward BB and Mig both being scum. DB flipping kind of lends him credence - doesn't mean he's necessarily right, but at least he's not trying to fool anyone. Cause that's not calling them out. He even backtracks on what he's saying. "Foolishness had a good post on BB, and he's probably town, but that doesn't mean he's right." He never calls anyone out, never gives us any of his own analysis, and always votes by following others. Aside from his vote on mig, which could have just been bussing since at that point (Day 3) mig was pretty much going to be lynched (Foolishness and I were hardcore pushing for it by then), he really hasn't done anything "pro-town". Add in his claim and I'm 90% sure he's mafia. | ||
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On September 04 2011 23:01 Pyo wrote: Like how can you even say that my votes have just been following along? Are you serious? Any also why did you check Kurumi night 4? I had claimed early enough in the night that you could have checked me. Why not confirm that I was telling the truth about my role knowing that they couldn't roleblock us both? Well it's pretty obvious, you're scum. DTs are suppose to check people they're unsure about, at that point and time I already thought you mafia so there was no point to a check on you? Of course your vote was a follow on. Previously you mentioned mig ONCE: On August 24 2011 07:02 Pyo wrote: had no internet for a day... im caught up to page 55, gonna place my vote on Mig, but i might change it if I finish reading the thread before the deadline. Not only do you not give a reason for why you voted for him but you also give yourself an out: "I might change it if I finish reading the thread." Later on you I'm going to keep my vote on Mig. He's gone with the "I'm burned out on mafia" defense of his posting into one-liners, which is as scummy as anyone else here (except for DB's role claiming). That said, I don't think he's going to get enough votes to actually be lynched. with the only justification for your vote being "His "burned out mafia" defense is scummy" | ||
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I'll make it clearer - if we end up lynching you and you flip DT, Chaoser is next. But I'm not comfortable with either for tonight. Why are you not comfortable with pyo's lynch? Who would you rather vote? He's not going to flip DT. | ||
chaoser
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What is this? Giving advice to the mafia as to why they should not kill him? Surely if he believes that this is what's best for town; he wouldn't explain it to them why they should kill someone else. Look at the time stamp. I wrote that at 11:11. The cycle had already ended so I was merely expressing/responding back to wherebugsgo On August 31 2011 11:10 wherebugsgo wrote: I guess the good news is that, at most, only 2 of us can die I semi expected to die and so I wrote a throw-away line. Too many coincidences. 3 DTs in the game with some many blues dead already; checking Vain the night BB framed him; not being attacked both nights after claiming; being roleblocked only the second night*. He checked Kurumi but he didn't indicate that he was suspicious of Kurumi at all beforehand. The one Chaoser indicated as suspicious was VisceraEyes but he did not check him. Like I said previously about Vain check: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174¤tpage=110#2199 That is literally the only coincidence. You should go check what that word means cause you're using it wrong. Not being attacked by mafia is WIFOM, not coincidence. I didn't understand why I wasn't roleblocked the first night either but the way I reasoned it out is this: Mafia just lost nard to a watcher. They were down to 2 KP and had no idea what types of blues were out there. To double stack me if there was another watcher would basically mean losing 2 more mafia just like that. Roleblocking me would lead to 1 mafia being outted by a watcher. When they saw that a DT and tracker died that night, they realized there probably isn't another watcher so they roleblocked me the second night. I checked kurumi due to his previous palmer shot claim. At first I thought he wasn't that scummy but then after rereading I became a little more unsure so I checked him. I don't see how that's "unusual". Aside from this, how would you explain my major day one case against mig? I kept at it for two days with foolishness. Are you saying that I bussed one of my teammates hardcore knowing that they'd survive to past day 1? You still haven't answered my questions: Why are you not comfortable with pyo's lynch? Who would you rather vote? He's not going to flip DT. | ||
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On September 05 2011 01:23 Navillus wrote: So was chaoser ever confirmed as DT and if so how? I'm looking through stuff but I can't find it and I'm seeing very little discussion on what seems like it would have been a rather important claim. I was never confirmed as a DT because the only real way to be 100% confirmed is to die. My "confirmation" only comes from the fact that 1) I pushed for mig's lynch from day 1 2) foolishness said he read through every one of my past games and thought I was town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174¤tpage=50#1000 and 3) My play so far has been "pro-town". Barundar caught wherebugsgo's last post and I reasoned and then argued with a few people that it's best to lynch bum because that gives us info on vain. (Vain btw is probably confirmed if you trust my check on him since I checked him, got red, and bum visited/framed him.) | ||
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On September 05 2011 01:39 Lucidity wrote: DTs are suppose to check people they're unsure about, at that point and time I already thought you mafia so there was no point to a check on you? Wait, what? [/QUOTE] I might have misworded what I meant. Since it's late game now, it's important to find the mafia that are lurking. So I was checked kurumi because I had no idea what to think of him. Basically I first thought, earlier in the game, that he wasn't that suspicious, but then later, after reading the thread and rereading his posts, became suspicious. This back and forth of my reads on him confused me and so I decided to check him to settle the confusion. wherebugsgo sums it up well here: I didn't really think anything of kurumi until his claim. However, if you look at all his posts/actions, the only thing of significance is that he vigged Palmar. There is no way to discern whether he is a scum vig or a town vig. Since there was no way for me to discern whether he was scum vig or town vig, I checked him. Pyo's claim along with his statements in terms of voting and his actions all gave me something to work with and so kurumi was a better check option over pyo. I'd rather lynch Rayzor or Navillus tonight - unless they post something intriguing by then. Could you share your thoughts on Rayzor, Chaoser? You've mentioned him a few times as an issue, yet never explained why or checked him. I actually think navillus is townie BECAUSE of his vote today on bumatlarge. If he was mafia he'd be a lot more informed since he has teammates and wouldn't have made that big a blunder. Once again though, that's WIFOM so take from it what you will. For rayzor, it's his first mafia game. A lot of his actions feel like noob town to me. I had a null tell on him and I was actually checking his last night but sadly got blocked. If you want to know my three mafia reads it's : Pyo, errandor, and VE. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174¤tpage=50#1000 As you can see, I lead that one, foolishness quoted and followed. | ||
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If chaoser doesnt die tonight, I stand entirely by my stance and fully want to see him lynched and flip red.... If he does die tonight, I'll analyze after the post and see who I'll vote for, lol Who says something like this? Mafia. If you're mafia, obviously you have control over who dies and who doesn't. Obviously you're not going to kill me and then try to lead a mislynch on that. Since it's LYLO you only need the one. | ||
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##Vote: Rayzorflash | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:26 RayzorFlash wrote: Curu, I've never soft or hard defended anyone at all the entire game, especially not chaoser... I was suspicious of him since his claim, and was the first person to openly worry about his claim not being all it seems If chaoser doesnt die tonight, I stand entirely by my stance and fully want to see him lynched and flip red.... If he does die tonight, I'll analyze after the post and see who I'll vote for, lol As mafia you have control over who dies, so you would just not kill me and push my lynch, justifying it as me being mafia when really, even if a townie said this, mafia wouldn't kill me. It's basically saying nothing since from the moment it was LYLO mafia would keep me alive, as was their plan since they realized there are probably no watchers left and neutralized me via roleblock. | ||
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Random Note: The QT GMarshal posted for Night 5 was from the other game I fake claimed DT | ||
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On September 08 2011 12:08 Curu wrote: lol right after Varpulis died you should've been turbolynched. The timing of the claim, how the claim was presented, and the voting for Vain because "I caught him" after a confirmed Watcher said nard was guilty was pretty suspect already, Town should've realized there was no way there would be 2 sane DTs, a Watcher, a Tracker, 2 Vigs, and a Medic (xt hadn't died yet at that time). chaoser also accidentally didn't claim a block the night right after his claim, which some people actually caught on to. Every external party I talked to on Skype figured out I was scum cause I just went along with chaoser's claim without doubting it lol. chaoser also accidentally didn't claim a block the night right after his claim, which some people actually caught on to. It wasn't an accident...you notice how EVERYONE included kurumi in their scum list during the final day? It was backup for if I ever get lynched, Kurumi would be next. It didn't matter if there were three modkills or not. Pyo would have been lynched, bringing it to LYLO and then I would get lynched, and then kurumi would get lynched. We win. EZPZ | ||
chaoser
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Unfortunately, there was absolutely no way for me to convince anyone of it. Well done to mafia for setting it up, but ultimately it was towns stupidity that won the game for mafia. Town is WAAAYYYY too dependent on blue powers. Using TL Mafia Meta to win the game! YAYYYY. Yes I did plan for a fake blue claim since day one. That's why I bussed mig. In TL Mafia games, person with some town cred+blue claim=amazingly hard to convince people to lynch =] | ||
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Also part of my mistake was not making it clear that I felt chaoser was suspicious and that he was linked to you; it seemed weird that you would frame vain on the same night he supposedly checked him. I was going to make it very explicit that, if chaoser lived, he would be mafia .Ok I didn't understand this logic...this is how a framer is SUPPOSE to work, they're hoping for a DT check on the person they framed. How is that weird? | ||
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On August 23 2011 12:38 Foolishness wrote: I spent last night rereading through all of chaoser's past games and all of brownbear's past games. It should be fairly obvious why I did this. I will defend chaoser to the grave if I have to, he's most certainly town. My New Profile Quote =D | ||
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(Fake)DTs ALL THE TIME BABY! | ||
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