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On December 06 2011 11:01 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 10:50 Jackal58 wrote:On December 06 2011 10:25 Radfield wrote:Erandorr, I appreciate you building a case(Jackal too), and I think both you and Jackal have some decent criticism of my Day 1 play. I've been doing a lot of asking questions, and not a lot of follow up. That being said, I stand by every post I have made this game. My goal has been to get things moving and I think i've actually done a decent job at that, in addition to moving the thread down productive avenues. Some points: * I'm not a strong Day 1 scumhunter. In fact pretty much the only time I build big day 1 cases are when I'm mafia. Other than that I built a Day 1 case on Barundar in PYPI, and was wrong. * As town I almost always have a lot of town reads, and only a few scum reads(generally do the opposite when scum) * When I quote things, I routinely remove parts of the quote that are not directly related to the point I'm making.Read any past case I have built * I have only ever been right on Day 1 once (Jackal in Merc Mini 2) The real question is: Do you agree with what I am doing right now? Consolidating a lynch on Hier, and trying to avoid a Palmar lynch? I am totally torn on Palmar. The only game I really believed him to be town (Except when we were Romeo and Juliet together) he was scum. That was the game Ace ran. I don't remember the name of it. All I remember is I made an ass out of myself trusting Palmar and cost town the game. That said I have been on the receiving end of his bullying when he was town. That's the Palmar I see this game to this point. But then he posted his role. That is a scum role. Don't care what you say Syllo. So ya I don't know what to make of Palmar at this point. I think I'd rather see him alive than dead at the end of the day. My problem with agreeing with you at this point is I really do think you're scum Rad. It's not a question of whether or not you're any good at finding scum on day 1. It's the way you've acted throughout the day. God knows I suck at finding scum day 1 too. But I haven't been all over the board like you have. I'll need to think about moving my vote to Heir. I'd much rather everybody voted for you but I don't see that happening at this point. Have I really been all over the board? I'll admit I skim-read your case against me, but I just don't see how you can think what I've been doing so far has mafia motives? Unless your simply stating that my mafia motive is to blend in, but in that case I would be posting way way less. Go look at any game I have played as scum, and count how many posts I have in day 1. I bet I have at least double the posts so far than any scum game I have ever played. Scum = lurkish, with some directing, and a few cases + lotsa scum reads. Town = open, conversational, poking and prodding, commenting, keeping town discussion flowing, leading and consolidating lynches. The game was Some Mafia Game, and as I recall the reason you trusted Palmar was due to the fact that you checked him N1 as Parity Cop, NOT due to his play. You even posted how it was just too unlikely that your first check would hit the godfather(or framed mafia in that case). It was the SMG game. And ya I was screwed by pulling the parity cop and checking GF night one and a framed wbg night 2. Story of my life. Only time I've ever been cop. Only time I've ever trusted Palmar. Ya don't want that shit again.
I don't really know your scum meta all that well. I think you've killed me night one every time. And yes you've been all over the board. Wishy washy at times. Posts that plant a seed of suspicion in the minds of others. I do that a lot when I'm scum. Never FoS somebody just let it sit there and fester. I see some of that from you. Posting lists after saying you don't like lists while stating "Ya I said I don't like lists but fuck here's one any ways" Saying rng voting is stupid and then doing it anyways. I just don't get it man.
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On December 06 2011 11:24 Radfield wrote:The RNG things was not actually random. I thought that became kinda apparent. Drazerk called me out and I explained it there, though I admit I didn't go into detail. I have actually thought about posting several times to clear it up, but each time deleted my post because I didn't want to sidetrack. The gist is, I wanted to generate some chatter, see prp's reaction specifically, and town's reaction in general. I figured that mafia would most likely not jump on me, simply because it was over the top blatant, but that it was the kind of thing townies would bite on. It was done pretty much on a whim, it pretty much accomplished what I wanted, and I wish I hadn't done it because things like that always bite me in the ass (like requesting an RPG and BP vest in my first post in Merc Mini). I can see where you're coming from on the planting seeds. Rest assured though I will be building proper cases on people. I will make you a deal. If I am still alive after night 2, and you still think I am scum you can push me all you want. Until then give me some room to work and see what I can do(and I will do the same for you). Deal? I have no choice atm do I?
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On December 06 2011 11:44 Zephirdd wrote: I'm off to bed. 2 votes to hammer Hier down(counting Lanaia's voteswitch). I am pretty certain that it's the right choice at the moment, or at least the safest choice of a lynch, considering he hasn't posted anything but two posts and that suggests a high chance of zero posts on the following night and days.
Hopefully two people make up their minds on that case. Where is hyshes by the way? I just switched my vote. I don't like it. But I did it. I think I was the only vote on Radfield. I don't trust him but I also hate the idea of no lynch. And ya I'm gonna get persecuted for switching. But I would be persecuted for not as well. Fuck it. Damned if I do damned if I don't.
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On December 07 2011 06:09 VisceraEyes wrote: Dear prplhz,
Literally all I've seen from Palmar is defending himself. I'm building a case, but don't dismiss what I'm saying just because I'm being consistent. I admit my tunnel of him yesterday was bad, but I'm as aware of his ability as anyone else is and to be honest, I understand what people have been saying about keeping him alive to prove himself. But all I see is him attempting to justify his retarded lie (assuming it's a lie) yesterday and taken with his general trolling behavior yesterday I'm fully of the opinion that he's scum.
We'll see what happens between now and then.
As far as opinions on others, I'll have to get back with you, as most of my attention has been on Palmar. I've noticed a few strange things in relation to Palmar about some people that I intend to explore once I get my Palmar flip. Here's a snapshot though.
Radfield has done a fine job of keeping d1 relatively focused. It's only when he wasn't in direct contact with the thread that Palmar was able to destroy what he'd accomplished. I've got a strong town read on Radfield.
redFF has been weird too. D1 started out strong, then degraded into capslock abuse and one-liners, the pit he remains in now. I'm wondering if it has to do with the way suspicions were rolling at the time - confidence levels and whatnot. Wishywashy on Palmar bad. Scum read on redFF
I'm a little suspicious of Sandroba's defense of Palmar yesterday, primarily because he commented on the fact that no one was defending him - in the same post he was defending him. He was one of those of the opinion that Palmar should be 'kept alive to prove himself', but that's certainly not a scum-tell of any kind. His case on Lanaia was...not. I'm leaning scum on Sandroba.
Really? You miss what I wrote about him? Rng voting, Lists, ignoring questions? Mkay.
On December 07 2011 05:58 hyshes wrote: And again syllogism is making the town atmosphere worse. So someone just had a final exam and you pose, somewhat aggressive, why he didn't post? And of course you don't leave it with 1 question about a stupid topic. This creates really a bad town atmosphere and I'm marking your play now as anti-town. Your question do not help town in any way. Dude this is the most pleasant game I've played in in months. Seriously. Nobody is attacking Annuls integrity as a human being. Nobody is posting "You're a moron" every other post. I wish all games were like this one. Syllo is pressuring Annul a bit. He's looking for reactions and responses. There is nothing anti town about it.
I'm leaving work shortly and I have bowling tonight. I wont see you guys again until tomorrow morning.
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I just got home. I'm drunk. I'm well beyond the point of caring if I'm alive or not when I wake up tomorrow. But I'm fucking saving this for posterity.
On December 07 2011 12:17 wherebugsgo wrote: Hey all, please cut down on the one liner spam.
Incog has asked at least twice already and I have received a PM from a player about the spam situation.
This will be the last warning before more serious consequences begin to appear.
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Hey guys. I apologize for my absence. Work was brutal today. Everything was broken and I had a hangover. I just got home and will catch up on about 15 or 20 pages. Be back in a bit.
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Jesus poop. I can't stay connected for more than 30 seconds at a time. I'll be back after 10 when I can get a stable internet connection.
And this is gonna take 50 try agains before it posts.
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On December 08 2011 12:13 Radfield wrote:I'm going to tell you right now that you are not alone Zephridd There are legions of townies who 'get a bad feeling' about me between the end of day one and end of day two when I am town. It honestly happens every single game to me. Someone should figure out why and tell me so I can fix it You are on the Solid Town list for a very specific reason. I'm not going to go into it deeper than that. All the other people missing from those three lists are pretty null. I either haven't relooked over them, they are very inactive, or I simply don't have a great read. I will also add that hyshes probably doesn't belong on my prob scum list, he is much more null at this point. Also keep in mind that the Drazerk claim of a roleblock immune medic who has to claim night 1 is a joke. It's either a joke by Incog, or a joke by Drazerk. In LOTR Drazerk claimed medic during Day 2 for no apparent reason and actually managed to stay alive until the end of the game, and I think he even made a save. Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 11:54 prplhz wrote: @Zephirdd
You're not off about Radfield's list, it is weird because he is likely scum and you're very likely town.
You're not wrong about how very specific speculation about setup/roles can't be effectively relied upon in a closed setup.
I don't think it is likely that Drazerk is scum, we can only speculate about why scum did not kill him. My theory is that they wanted to isolate Palmar and lynch him today so they took away two of his biggest supporters. If you see a problem with my list then let me hear it. Don't just snipe. I hope you realize I am also one of strongest voices in the thread against a Palmar lynch? Problem is I don't like annul either, and I don't have a good fallback target since I'm leaning more and more town on you.I will say this, I'm willing to lynch sandro if he doesn't start being more useful. He has almost zero contribution at this point, when he should be starting to pinpoint scum.
Hi Radfield. Could you answer a couple of questions for me? 1. Why did you omit me from your list? You were suspicious of me on day 1. Did you leave me off just to give me a warm fuzzy feeling about you? 2. You have Annul on your "maybe town" section but two posts later you don't like him. Which is it? 3. You have prplhz on your "prob scum" section but again 2 posts later you're leaning more and more town on him. Part of your analysis on him previously was his vote on Annul. So are you flip flopping Annul and Prplhz on your list? If so why such a rapid change of opinion? These appear to be contradictions to me. A wee bit of waffling. Could you help me try to understand where you are coming from?
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On December 09 2011 00:03 Palmar wrote: Jackal58: Can you please help me beat sense into this town.
I'll gladly help you lynch Radfield later. I can't really. I don't fully agree with your case on Annul nor do I fully believe you are town. I will say I think both of you are horrible lynch targets for today. If you're really town let's not wait til later on Rad.
Statements like this are scummy as hell though.
On December 08 2011 23:55 Mattchew wrote: Palmar, would you go Lynch for Lynch with Annul. If he flips town you get lynched next?
Do you know something about Palmar and Annuls alignments you'd like to share with us Matt?
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On December 09 2011 00:07 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 00:03 hyshes wrote:On December 08 2011 23:59 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 23:55 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 23:55 Mattchew wrote: Palmar, would you go Lynch for Lynch with Annul. If he flips town you get lynched next? Yes. you realize last time you did this... ace flipped town and you backed out He can't back out if we force it on him. If we are with 16 who support this 100% (so me +15, palmar not included) i'm willing to do this. lol what? Please explain to me why you are actually willing to do this. Please explain to me why you actually proposed it.
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On December 09 2011 00:16 Palmar wrote: Mattchew is actually arguing that this would be a terrible idea, so i think he simply wanted to gauge my reactions. Ya I caught up. He must be learning from you.
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On December 09 2011 00:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 00:12 Mattchew wrote:On December 09 2011 00:10 hyshes wrote:On December 09 2011 00:09 hyshes wrote:On December 09 2011 00:07 Mattchew wrote:On December 09 2011 00:03 hyshes wrote:On December 08 2011 23:59 Mattchew wrote:On December 08 2011 23:55 Palmar wrote:On December 08 2011 23:55 Mattchew wrote: Palmar, would you go Lynch for Lynch with Annul. If he flips town you get lynched next? Yes. you realize last time you did this... ace flipped town and you backed out He can't back out if we force it on him. If we are with 16 who support this 100% (so me +15, palmar not included) i'm willing to do this. lol what? Please explain to me why you are actually willing to do this. bc i'm not letting palmar have free townkills And 1 for 1 trades are good for town so can you explain why you think annul is scum and why you think palmar is scum. and why they cant be 2 townies bumping heads. I think he said he thinks palmar is scum and therefore annul has to be town. I am still miracously on a town-read on palmar so I got to disagree here. I think he's just an overconfident guy who hates it when he's not in controle. He screwed day1 and lost controle of this game, he started playing more serious and did a lot of lurking. He's probably stubborn enoug to tell himself something along the lines "well I'm going to show them that they SHOULD trust me and will deliver a mafia" to get back in controle / be confirmed townie so that people are listening to what he says because that's what he wants. He wants to be in charge and lead the investigation. That's why I think he might be tunneling (because he thinks he needs to find a mafia right now) and I don't think his case on annul is better than my case on erandorr. Might be wrong with my analysis of palmar though. Do you think he's bussing Annul?
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On December 09 2011 01:01 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 23:37 annul wrote: now i have a final exam in 27 minutes, so im going to eat my food and get to school. but seriously palmar give it up Do you think Palmar is still scum annul? If not him then who? Who else do you think is scummy, who should be our lynch today? @Palmar, that's a much better case, and one I can get behind. Originally I felt his 'blueslip' catch made him seem townie in origin, not so sure now though. The fact that he came into the thread and asked for a recap is generally not something mafia would do. However this is very much true: Show nested quote +Now, please recheck annul's filter ( here ) and scroll down to where he votes me. Notice how sharply his contribution rate has fallen. Not only that, but there is also NO effort at scumhunting at all. He literally hasn't accused anyone of anything since he decided I was red. There is no substance. I think the closest thing was calling Jackal a moron. His claim of being hit also struck me as genuine: Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 14:38 annul wrote: apparently someone shot me but it was negated somehow Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 14:41 annul wrote: i just asked and was told someone medic'd me. <3.
ok so reds have 3 kp then Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:23 annul wrote:On December 07 2011 21:46 kingjames01 wrote: annul, what do you mean, you "asked"? Did you ask the mods how you were saved? Is that what you meant?
wbg: "you took a hit tonight" me: "does this mean a medic saved me?" wbg: "yes" But looking at it again reminds me of how I felt taking a hit as third party in PYP1. In general when you take a hit, you DO NOT claim how(vet or medic) but simply just let the thread know you took a hit. However when you take a hit as mafia(saved by town) you immediately claim the medic save, RoL in Closed Casket did the exact same thing. Why? Because being saved by a town medic buys you townie credit. He also very quickly agreed to the idea that mafia did not hit him, but syllo did. Maybe that's because the evidence is decent, but if syllo was suspicious of me during the night and I took a hit I would not immediately accept that syllo must have shot me. ##Vote: Annul
Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 23:59 Jackal58 wrote:
Hi Radfield. Could you answer a couple of questions for me? 1. Why did you omit me from your list? You were suspicious of me on day 1. Did you leave me off just to give me a warm fuzzy feeling about you? 2. You have Annul on your "maybe town" section but two posts later you don't like him. Which is it? 3. You have prplhz on your "prob scum" section but again 2 posts later you're leaning more and more town on him. Part of your analysis on him previously was his vote on Annul. So are you flip flopping Annul and Prplhz on your list? If so why such a rapid change of opinion? These appear to be contradictions to me. A wee bit of waffling. Could you help me try to understand where you are coming from? Yep, reads change. As I said, I'm warming up on prplhz, and as should have been obvious from my posting, I had conflicting thoughts on annul. That's why they were both question marks. You completely disappeared, and have basically been inactive this entire game. Other than the slight pressure I've tossed your way, you have commented on almost nothing(which unfortunately your town meta can support). In addition you were basically absent for 1-2 days, that moves you back towards null. Obviously if you continue to not comment or push any scum reads then you will move back towards red. I get that you think I'm scum, now move on and do something productive.
Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 00:25 Palmar wrote:
If you present a strong enough case and can convince people to kill radfield, I don't think I would oppose killing him today. My preferable target remains annul though. Ask yourself this: If I am scum, is this the best scum game I have ever played? If I am town, is this about where I am most day 2's, maybe slightly more scattered? Which do you think more likely? This is not an argument, just a question. Not even one you have to answer right now. Actually I don't know what to think of you. That's why I asked. Reading most of your early day 2 posts had me leaning towards town on you for the first time this game. And then in a single post you flip flopped your stance on the 2 people garnering the largest amount of scrutiny today. One of whom you put the cross hairs on in prplhz. So ya I really don't know what to make of you. And I am commenting and trying to discern scum. It just happens to be you I'm focused upon atm.
If you like I'll put forward my own list I have of where I think various peoples loyalties lay.
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On December 09 2011 01:29 Radfield wrote: I'm mostly interested in who you think are scummy and why Jackal. Though I'm also interested in which part of Palmar's case on annul you like, and which parts you don't(which you alluded to).
But from my perspective I know none of your reads, because you are focused almost entirely on me. Townish: prplhz Toadesstern
Null: Palmar annul vaderseven Mattchew Erandorr Lanaia hyshes Zephirdd
Scummish: VisceraEyes Radfield redFF Drazerk
Not enough info to make a judgement of any kind: Refallen sandroba TruthBringer kingjames01 Corrupt Risen
Regarding Palmars case on Annul, I agree with Palmar regarding Annul's activity level and quality of posts. I disagree with the assertion that since he claimed to be shot he must be scum. But my biggest problem with the entire case is the fact that Palmar made it. I have read his filter about a hundred times already and I keep coming to the same conclusion. I simply don't know wtf he is. What I do know about Palmar is he is able to manipulate people in a manner few if any here can do. So ya I'd much rather give Annul a day to redeem himself than jump on anything Palmar has put forth. I would much rather a lynch of one of those on my not enough info list. I don't really see any of them stepping up their contribution levels any time soon.
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On December 09 2011 02:24 TruthBringer wrote: I will switch my vote to the highest vote receiver before daytime ends if doing so is necessary to cause a hanging.
On a different matter: The death of supersoft seemed odd. He seemed ambiguous as to whether he was town or mafia. Of course, mafia want to kill people who are obviously townies, so that when it comes to voting, everyone is a suspect. He also isn't a power player as far as I know. I know he didn't make that 6-player list of Radfield, Palmar, redFF, syllogism, Jackal58, and Sandroba.
So why was he killed?
I can think of somebody who had a motive to kill him: Lanaia. Supersoft made a sexist comment about girls always contradicting themselves. I think that comment was inappropriate but Lanaia appeared to take it in stride. But maybe she got the last laugh and killed supersoft for it.
It is enough to put Lanaia on my radar anyways. Add this guy to my summyish list Radfield.
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On December 09 2011 02:51 TruthBringer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:27 Jackal58 wrote:On December 09 2011 02:24 TruthBringer wrote: I will switch my vote to the highest vote receiver before daytime ends if doing so is necessary to cause a hanging.
On a different matter: The death of supersoft seemed odd. He seemed ambiguous as to whether he was town or mafia. Of course, mafia want to kill people who are obviously townies, so that when it comes to voting, everyone is a suspect. He also isn't a power player as far as I know. I know he didn't make that 6-player list of Radfield, Palmar, redFF, syllogism, Jackal58, and Sandroba.
So why was he killed?
I can think of somebody who had a motive to kill him: Lanaia. Supersoft made a sexist comment about girls always contradicting themselves. I think that comment was inappropriate but Lanaia appeared to take it in stride. But maybe she got the last laugh and killed supersoft for it.
It is enough to put Lanaia on my radar anyways. Add this guy to my summyish list Radfield. The part that you bolded is me indicating that I would prefer to hang someone today rather than not hang. How is that scummy? Because you apparently don't care who it is.
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On December 09 2011 03:19 TruthBringer wrote: That's an argument for me NOT being mafia if I don't care who it is . . . care to expound how that makes me mafia? Only scum don't care if they are hammering a townie.
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On December 09 2011 04:43 Erandorr wrote: Oh shit. Someone is making sense!
By the way, I actually didn't sheep Palmar, I came to that conclusion on my own. It was just kinda funny ^.^ Who? About what?
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On December 09 2011 05:52 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 05:50 annul wrote: im saying he OMGUSes every game. i have been voting him before he ever started to attack me.
and no, you will get my big post if my death is imminent. you will see why when the time comes. Just post it now doing what you are doing now is going to make everyone want to lynch you more causing an imminent death regardless If Annul is town and there is a role claim involved I'd rather he didn't claim anything right now.
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On December 09 2011 05:42 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:50 Toadesstern wrote:On December 09 2011 04:43 Erandorr wrote: Oh shit. Someone is making sense!
By the way, I actually didn't sheep Palmar, I came to that conclusion on my own. It was just kinda funny ^.^ hey there, glad you're back in here answering those questions you told you'd answer, staying active and all. Oh wait you're last post was on page 72? At least you did another quality post here... oh wait. GUYS, are you kidding me? I am just quoting myself because everyone is ignoring it. Palmar answer this one: You think erandorr is a bad case based of what he does and based of what I said so far? It's AGAIN the same thing. He made that one post 13 pages ago that made everyone think "oh that poor little guy, he even thinks Toads case is good, can't be mafia". And he instantly went into lurkingmode again just to come out now to make a single post that got 2 posts of nothing. I will be sitting there post game telling you that I told you erandorr was a good case, I even told you what erandorr is going to to and he did it twice now. And he's ignoring it again. Yell yeah, that's the way a townie is playing this game, let's all withdraw our votes from erandorr... I'm not ignoring it. I was filtering Erandor again. + Show Spoiler + I am going to vote Errandorr. If it's information we're after his flip will go a long way to shed light on redff's roleblock claim. I don't know that I've ever been in a game with 2 role blockers. My first reaction was to call bs on red's claim. But after hitting Errandors filter again I see they are twin brothers. Red just swears more. ##Vote: Erandorr
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