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TL Mafia XLVIII
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How exciting, glad I stumbled upon this subforum! | ||
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On December 05 2011 00:21 Radfield wrote: A zodiac list is a term coined many games ago. It refers to a list of players, typically the stronger vets, who are held to a high standard. I can't remember the specifics of the original plan, but it was a way to organize blue roles like detectives and medics by directing them either into or away from the zodiac list. Technically I'm misusing the term here. All I am really talking about is a list of players who playstyles I am familiar with, and who I am going to be keeping a close eye on. I don't like the idea of having this list. Lists last game just led to idiotic flamewars that didn't help us at all. I also don't think you can just expect us to trust you and your analysis of "players who playstyles I am familiar with". I think that's the kind of thing you should keep to yourself and just post your analysis. No need to pressure us with the fear that maybe we don't know their playstyle, so we should just follow you. Prplhz had me completely fooled day 1 because his post made me inherently trust him and his judgement because he appeared friendly and trustworthy. You're doing the same thing here. Moving on. On December 05 2011 00:39 Drazerk wrote: I dislike randomly voting people at the start of day to spark discussion as it just allows the person to do a blind omgus rather than focusing on everyone. Your not going to stick with Prplhz throughout the entire day at any rate and if you do you will just be tunnelling him which has too many drawbacks. One thing I learned from last game and Bloodyc0bbler's actions was that tunneling is not pro-town. Bringing up a single argument is fine and dandy, and calling people out on stuff is fine too, but going after someone relentlessly led to situations where our mayor and sheriff (who were both town) ended up going after each other and muddling up everything. Have to agree with Drazerk here. On December 04 2011 23:21 Toadesstern wrote: Worst possible option imo. a no-lynch would just make mafia get a couple of freekills while we end up being in the same position we had problems with on day1 with less townies left. This is how I see it. A day 1 lynch is going off almost nothing, but not lynching is giving mafia a free pass into the night. We have like a 1 in 4 chance of blindly hitting mafia, so we need some sort of plan on how to manage to find them day 1. Last game, every single plan I saw got yelled at for directing people, though. And directing in almost any case seems to be bad. So just go with gut feelings? Lynch someone who's lurking? Lynch someone who's talking a lot but saying nothing? | ||
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On December 05 2011 03:31 Zephirdd wrote: Because I don't throw votes away without proper thought. I'd rather see what they have for an answer before actually voting on them. I believe the answer to a question tells me much more than the actual case made over someone. On December 05 2011 03:49 Zephirdd wrote: Maybe that's why I don't like doing it, my first game was like that, and I raged at people just voting out of nothing(even if I was scum there). Meh, the hell with it. ##Vote Corrupt I just realized his nickname is horrible also lol. What? That makes no sense Zephyr. Unless this is a joke, and you're just using this as a placeholder. On December 05 2011 04:22 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Scum-List of Correctitude Palmar - I liked Red's case on Palmar, and his attempt to discredit it by discrediting me is telling. Like, yeah...he thinks I'm bad...but my skill-level has nothing to do with Red's points or Palmar's posts. It's a ridiculous non-defense, and it's scummy as hell. SCUM. Drazerk - His criticism of Radfield of his RNG vote caught my eye. Like, what's the point there? Does he think he's scum trying to appear to contribute? Does he think he knows how to play better than Rad? We don't know because he doesn't say. It looks to me like he's soft-defending prplhz...especially when he says things like "...you're not going to stick with Prplhz throughout the entire day and if you do you're tunneling him which has drawbacks"....it stinks of pre-knowledge. Not to mention the fact that he's posted several times and hasn't voted OR given his opinions on any players. SCUM. We still have a lot of lurkers, I'd like to see content from everyone fastly. I disagree on Drazerk. I don't like the RNG vote either, I'm not going about it as strongly, but it just feels like a good way to start behind. It's a huge gamble. Your point about pre-knowledge makes no sense either. What I do agree with you on is that he hasn't given his opinion on other players directly, just implied. At this point why would you want to call people out directly? You could just end up looking like an idiot. There's nothing really to go off of other than analysis. Maybe meta? I haven't played but one game, and my read on Drazerk points to him as town. Last game he was completely useless, and he was mafia. I don't think he's useless here, so town read so far. | ||
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On December 05 2011 04:22 Corrupt wrote: I pictured TruthBringer as one of the good guys, so I'm being suspicious about prplhz.. altho I must admit that what he said about TruthBringer also made sense. It just isn't based on much information and yet he claims it, so that's why it provoked me for being suspicious about him. You need to make cases. You can't just point at people and say, I have a gut feeling that he's scum. You have to say, I think he's scum because X. Then when someone disagrees with you, you have to either point out the flaws in their counterargument or present your case in a more logical manner. Using logic is extremely pro-town, just saying "oh scum" gets us nowhere. | ||
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On December 05 2011 04:54 Zephirdd wrote: Context. Simplifying it, redFF convinced me it's not a big deal to throw a vote on someone you find scummy. And I'm not regretting it at this point... Oh derp, I just woke up my bad. I was like, did he seriously vote him because of his name??? | ||
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On December 05 2011 07:13 Lanaia wrote: I have come to the conclusion I can't read Palmar worth a damn. I really hate it when I feel like that towards a person all the time. So it's probably a good idea to ignore me when it comes to Palmar, at least for now. However, I am eagerly awaiting his explanation on redff's case being terrible. Lol. Found this funny as hell. As for Palmar, he just went to sleep like 5 hours ago. I'm not expecting anything from him until late tonight. I don't think any attempts to analyze him are genuine until he comes back. | ||
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On December 05 2011 13:11 Soap wrote: I don't get day start, no one did nothing and we have nothing to analyze. I'm rnging. ##Vote Drazerk Is this for real? I called Zephyrdd out for this kind of shit earlier, but at least he ended up having a real reason. Can we get any kind of analysis? I'm not seeing it. I almost shit myself when I read annul agree. Thankfully he was just being a troll. | ||
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On December 05 2011 13:11 Soap wrote: ##Vote Drazerk From the vote thread. | ||
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On December 05 2011 13:41 redFF wrote: get away with not contributing i guess..but he must know he would be called out. This is why I didn't just kneejerk vote for him. Soap man, you can't just do that shit. Is this like your second game, the last mafia being your first? He played exactly like this last game and he was town. Didn't post shit or help out at all. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=71915 | ||
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Radfield here is my filter from my last game. This is only my second game, sorry it isn't much to go on. I got modkilled because I accidentally hit edit on one of my posts instead of quote. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=62525 | ||
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On December 06 2011 05:32 vaderseven wrote: Not red but green. Not really surprised (would say the same if he was red) but I am sad. Of course you're not surprised. I posted that he played EXACTLY like this last game as town and you still shot him, because you were "afraid" of Palmar. I can't decide whether you're playing horrible town, or whether Palmar got the exact reaction he wanted out of you and you're mafia. I'm so confused by Palmar's play right now. Use LOGIC people. Hasty decisions and gut reactions are not pro town at all. So fucking stupid. | ||
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On December 06 2011 06:12 Corrupt wrote: Can't find the slightest piece of logic in his last 20 posts.. his "play" seems just unacceptable for me. It's so confusing as if there's no logic at all... just pure sickness. (or trolling or whatever) I have no idea what his purpose was with the dayvig thing, I think it was some sort of a sick coincidence with Vadersevens role. But again.. really? So sick, could this be planned after all? Let me know what you think Risen.. Going grocery shopping. Will do a writeup when I get back. | ||
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##vote Lanaia | ||
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On December 06 2011 09:43 redFF wrote: anyone not on a large wagon is anti town This isn't true. I was the large wagon last game, and that was so idiotic it hurt. I'd like anyone who votes to be able to make a case like, I voted for X because Y. | ||
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On December 06 2011 09:46 Drazerk wrote: That wasn't majority lynch with no lynches And you're telling me lynching Palmar is the best move for town right now? I don't think it is. He's made some really stupid posts, but last game he was making some really stupid, idiotic posts and it led straight to his lynching. He was town then, and if he hadn't made his emounicorn post he wouldn't have been lynched. Now he's just being a troll and an idiot without the emounicorn, but I don't think he's scum. | ||
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On December 06 2011 09:52 Drazerk wrote: It's too late in the day for new bandwagon targets. Focus on what we have NO! This is so illogical. How certain are you that Palmar is mafia? Vote for him because he's bandwagon is so ridiculous. We have a less than 25% chance of being right on Palmar, add to that his stupid posts and the % goes DOWN in my book, not up. Why is that percentage going up for you? He has CLAIMED a role. If his role vote doesn't show up on the list tonight THEN we sit back and say, oh shit Palmar lied TWICE to us. As it stands he was just pressuring v7 into making a move, he didn't force v7 to shoot Soap. Palmar was buddy buddy with Soap. V7 is a dumbass and shot a wrong target. If anything, Palmar is a vig target, because that gives us more time to look at where the chips fall. What happens when we lynch Palmar and his anonymous vote shows up on Hier? We just lost ourselves a double vote for as long as we can keep him alive. This is JUST like last game. What if bloodyc0bbler had been scum in that game? We shot ourselves in the foot and got LUCKY that we double voted in town. We have a person claiming blue, if his blue power doesn't show up? Vig shot or lynch day 2. This decision is being forced upon us because we "need" to lynch. | ||
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On December 06 2011 09:55 Zephirdd wrote: K, finished compiling the votes. Fun fact, Palmar and Risen have yet to vote on the voting thread(where they actually count). And incognito decided to update the vote count just after I finished compiling. FML. + Show Spoiler [Just so it isnt wasted] + prplhz - Radfield, -Radfield, Zephirdd, -Zephirdd syllogism - hyshes, Hier Palmar - redFF, VisceraEyes, Toadesstern, -Toadesstern, -redFF, TruthBringer, Zephirdd, Drazerk, Lanaia, -Zephirdd, Corrupt, annul, vaderseven, Zephirdd, redFF Corrupt - Zephirdd, vaderseven, redFF, -Zephirdd, -vaderseven, -redFF Radfield - vaderseven, -vaderseven, Jackal58, supersoft, -supersoft Drazerk - Soap, -Soap Soap - annul, Refallen, -Refallen, -annul TruthBringer - prplhz, Toadesstern, -prplhz, -Toadesstern Drazerk - Palmar, -Palmar redFF - vaderseven, -vaderseven, Mattchew vaderseven - Palmar, prplhz, Drazerk, -Drazerk Hier - syllogism, Toadesstern Lanaia - Radfield, sandroba, Refallen VisceralEyes - Refallen, -Refallen Erandorr - supersoft real vote count Anyone not voting for Palmar without a true reason to REALLY believe Palmar is town, especially after what he did(instead of defending his ass to the end and hope for the no-lynch, he basically shits on my face and my defense and claims a scumrole), should really consider switching to him to grab that lynch.Yes I am mad He is, indeed, the less likely town on my opinion right now. Umm, what? On December 06 2011 09:51 Risen wrote: ## vote Lanaia | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:00 Drazerk wrote: How wasn't that Palmar's fault? He claimed day vigi and put a timer to V7's head. He had no choice but to role claim then later prove his role claim or the entire town would of lynched him ( Myself included ) He is not slowly coming around he is doing his typical defence of shrugging off any attackers and calling everyone bad. This is not pro town this is destroying the atmosphere we had. Scum are currently directing us towards the no lynch ( Voting for anyone but Palmar ) which is a 100% benefit for them opposed to lynching palmar who is on their team. How can you not consider that scum is directing us to a lynch on Palmar. Why are they leading us to no lynch instead of lynch on Palmar? | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:05 redFF wrote: @ERANDORR YOU POST YOUR FIRST CASE 4 HOURS FROM THE END OF DAY 1 BITCH PLEASE Last game taught me that you should post your cases as you write them. Withholding information and thoughts is not a good thing. How could that be a good thing? | ||
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In the vote thread it has Palmar on v7 and Anonymous on Hier. That has to be Palmar. | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:12 Drazerk wrote: The case against lanania is much weaker lol Case against Palmar: He "forced v7s hand" and he's posting like a troll. Case against Lanaia: She's voting Palmar based on him "being weird". She's just "echoing" what other people are saying, and she even admits it. Her whole case against him is that she doesn't know what he's doing. It's DAY 1. She said she'll be back before voting ends, and if she can actually substantiate herself then I'll move off her. I don't see how the case against Palmar is stronger than Lanaia, though. | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:14 Radfield wrote: ##Vote: Hier I think Hier is a better choice than Lanaia right now. Everyone on Lanaia should swing over and consolodate on Heir. Why are we swinging to Hier? Lanaia has proven that she's going to vote illogically based on her "feelings". What has Hier done wrong? | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:21 Palmar wrote: I'm town, you're terrible at mafia. By the way, I need to sleep it's 1am at my time. If I get lynched. Everyone on this wagon should take a good long hard look at their play, because there is a reason all the players who are commonly considered good have stayed the hell away from my lynch. I know my play hasn't been very productive in this game, I wanted to have a laid back/fun game after the massive pain in the ass that was XLVII. I wanted to play casually and troll around a bit, so I was happy when I got town with a fairly non-important role. That doesn't change the fact that that nothing about my play has been scummy. Anyone saying that is simply incorrect, a fact that will be proven by my lynch. I want that to sink in. If I do get lynched, you guys are taking active stance against some of the best players TL has to offer, and have the audacity to dare think you're right. You obviously aren't, but feel free to fail before you believe me. There is no excuse for voting me at this time. You will not be able to say "But Palmar was playing badly", because that doesn't make me scum. Bad != scum. And you will not be able to say that we had no better lynch, because a no-lynch is preferable to killing townies. Remember that, when/if I flip. This may be the most polarizing lynch I've ever seen in mafia, seperating good players from bad players. I am fully aware I made myself a target. Does that make me mafia? Hell no. There are only two reasons to be on my wagon when I flip. a) You're incredibly bad b) You're scum Good night. Palmar this is not a good defense. OMGUS is horrible. Why not just stop after you said you wanted to have a casual trolly game. Why go on and on about everyone voting for you sucking... | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:33 Radfield wrote: Lynching scummy lurkers is kinda always the back-up plan for Majority day 1 lynches. Hier's case was extremely forced, and he has contributed nothing since then. Ideally he would not be the lynch, but it's an OK lynch nonetheless. It's better than Lanaia at this point, and miles better than Palmar. So I'm supposed to vote hier because we need a lynch even though I don't think he's scum? Makes sense to me. What do we gain when he flips town? How positive are you that he's scum? There's no case and all I have on him is a null read. I guess if he didn't want to be lynched he'd have defended himself, but the swap JUST came. If he doesn't post the remainder of the time I'll consider swapping, since he's the only true "null" read I have. What kind of scum sees all this going on and just keeps lurking? | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:35 Zephirdd wrote: Didn't we accept that Lynch Scummy player > Lynch Lurking player > Lynching Active player ? Somehow Palmar has a chance to flip town. And I don't find it to be actually a low chance, despite my earlier rage. and I don't like Lanaia's case against her(mostly over the fact that her posts actually fits her town meta). I was lurking almost all today because I was busy as shit. We're not lynching based on logic, we're lynching just to lynch. That's what has me feeling like this is stupid. | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:38 Radfield wrote: We need three more votes. Assuming the votes on Palmar are locked in, we need 3 of the following players to switch to Hier: Risen prplhz Mattchew Jackal58 hyshes supersoft and someone who hasn't voted, not sure who, but I only count 23 votes on the list(24 with anon) We should have 25 votes total tonight, because there were 25 to start and Soap got killed. Palmar has two votes, so that just leaves us at 25 still. | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:40 redFF wrote: i agree that how he is acting right now is similar to how he was acting last game before being lynched but that is almost certainly intention and i treat it as more scummy than anything else. Then what's the point of meta at all? Oh he's acting how he did that one time, he must be town. He's acting like he did that one time, makes him more scummy imo. Seems like using meta at all is just WIFOM b/c the person in question has to know he's being looked at. So that means we should just build a case against him based on what he's done in this thread. | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:39 Lanaia wrote: ##unvote: Palmar ##Vote: Hier | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:53 Lanaia wrote: It was in my last post, Risen. Palmar was acting like he did last game before he got lynched and that I felt he was town. Or do you mean why I switched to Hier? To avoid a Palmar lynch, he was the best target. People were consolidating onto him and from what I've seen in the past, Palmar can be a hell of a lot more helpful than Hier. I had meant why did you swap onto Hier, somehow I missed your post. I don't understand why everyone and their mother is hopping ship all of a sudden is all. Bloodyc0bbler much? There we had the benefit of them having no excuses. Here we don't have shit, we won't be able to single out anyone swapping because it's not happening at the last minute. Where does this leave us day 2? We have like just over a 25% chance of scoring on Hier in my mind. If he flips scum, well hot damn we just hit our straight. If he doesn't, oh... well shit I guess I shouldn't have bet like a madman. | ||
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Yeah that's an awesome defense of your point. I'm swayed completely. | ||
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On December 06 2011 11:29 Soap wrote: LOL, sucks to be bastard modded out of the game but I do appreciate the irony. Have a nice game folks. The mods had nothing to do with your death. That was v7 being an idiot. | ||
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On December 06 2011 12:37 kingjames01 wrote: Hier: where are you? Why aren't you defending yourself? The problem with this lynch vote is that it gave mafia an excuse to cast their vote without having to provide a strong reason. "I voted to lynch Hier because we 'need to lynch' and he's the only guy that we had a chance to kill" is not a good reason. Now everyone who voted for him can use that. Not to mention that since we have so many votes against HIer, it's possible that not every mafia is included in this bandwagon. At least consider the following course of action: If you are town, switch your off Hier and vote someone else. If mafia really want to get a free kill, make them commit an extra vote and put themselves at risk. Two people have to switch off at this point. This is beyond retarded. | ||
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On December 06 2011 12:51 kingjames01 wrote: Only if you really believe that Hier is Red and that mafia isn't actually trying to kill him. Who knows? If two people rescind their votes maybe we'll see you switch yours and decide Hier's fate. I'm not moving, and before you came riding in on your high horse I was the one saying this bandwagon swap is retarded. Nice try, though. | ||
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On December 06 2011 13:44 TruthBringer wrote: I like the case against refallen rather than the case against hier. I can harmlessly switch my vote from Palmar (5) to refallen. If other people are ready to swing to refallen, announce it, so we can coordinate and still make a hanging happen. Even though I would rather hang refallen than hier, I would rather hang Palmar than either, though clearly Palmar won't get hanged. Too many people have already decided against it. ##unvote Palmar ##vote refallen What case against hier. If you were on hier it was ONLY because you felt we needed a day 1 lynch. There is no other reason... | ||
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On December 06 2011 13:48 TruthBringer wrote: I was not on hier, I was on Palmar. For semantic soundness . . . I like the case against refallen, rather than the non case against hier. Ah I see. Apparently my reading comprehension late at night is horrendous. Regardless, no one is getting off hier at this point with 10 minutes left. We'll have to wait and pray that mafia is riding one of their members who dropped out of the game. | ||
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2. Town | ||
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##vote annul | ||
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On December 09 2011 11:30 Radfield wrote: Yes, you need to vote annul. We need two votes, and yours is supremely important. Annul is a jack, he also has access to a dayvig shot. With 11 votes and him likely to be lynched, he asked for town consensus on the who the most likely town was(toad). He then passed his dayvig shot to toad and toad killed prplhz. I hold that annul was trying to wash his hands of any deaths. Any true town player would simply have taken their shot at the player they think most likely scum, not rely on some other players scum reads. Annul has been pushing Palmar as scum for 72 hours and 50 pages. Had he shot him and Palmar flipped red he would be 99% confirmed town. Instead he passed his shot to some other person. No way annul is town. Please vote annul. I will go through his filter right now. | ||
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On December 09 2011 11:35 Radfield wrote: redFF doesn't look great, but I haven't touched his filter since Day 1, so I don't know. Honestly, if annul flips red you don't look so hot either VE. Apologies for the spam, I meant to consolidate with my previous post. RedFF has been my strongest scumread from when I've been able to drop in. I can't tell whether this is town play or not from him, though. He just seems like a really mad poster. | ||
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Palmar accuses annul of being scum, VE accuses Palmar of being scum (shocking), annul says wtf why is everyone voting for me, Palmar gives a case on annul that isn't convincing at all, annul freaks and starts OMGUS, annul gives out his role and asks toads what to do, toads says shoot prplhz, annul shoots prplhz (I thought prplhz was scum going into d2), annul #1 lynch target in spite of being jack? Correct me if I'm misreading things here. | ||
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On December 09 2011 11:39 Radfield wrote: Why would a town aligned player give away his shot? Why not just shoot your top scum read, the one you have been pushing for days. Unless of course you know that player will flip town. If annul was scum, could he have done anything better in this situation to clear his name, short of actually shooting a teammate? Put yourself in annuls shoes(as scum), and ask yourself what you would do to get out of the lynch? I'm just wondering why annul is scum in this situation and v7 is town. I'm not sure your last question is fair, either. What is annul supposed to do in this situation as town? Why is his action scummy? I think it's scummy, but I think that only because I think v7's decision was scummy. I'm unvoting annul and placing it on redff. I still don't like him even AFTER reading his filter. | ||
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On December 09 2011 11:44 Radfield wrote: So why didn't you shoot him? I also notice that nowhere in that sequence of events does Palmar play like scum. Wait what? OMGUS is such scum behavior. Forcing people to act in an irrational manner is STUPID. We should have been able to be patient and Palmar has now forced two jack's out of hiding. How the hell is that pro-town? | ||
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On December 09 2011 11:46 Radfield wrote: The case on annul is pretty solid. I recommend you reread it. I made several additional points when I voted him. Since voting Palmar(for a terrible reason) midway through Day 1, annul has done virtually nothing. Even today he promised a big fat post but then simply passed over his dayvig shot to a townie. Annul is putting in very little effort, something that is a hallmark of scum. On December 08 2011 01:05 Palmar wrote: How about song lyrics and dramatic speeches? It can't be all coincidence Too many things are evident You tell me you're an unbeliever? Spiritualist? Well me I'm neither Wouldn't you like to know the truth Of what's out there to have the proof And find out just which side you're on Where would you end in Heaven or in Hell? Citizens of Liquidia! Today is a day to remember, because today the true colors of the residents of town will be shown. Who will dare stand up against the Mafia and make the right choice? Remember that we must each reach the conclusion on our own while working against a highly organized team of evildoers. Remember today, once night falls it is upon each individual in this town to analyze what happened here today, and more than any other day, today is the day where the lines are drawn. Today you choose a side, today you show yourself as a valuable member of town or worthless scum seeking only to spread distrust while slowly taking our lives, one by one. Every single person will be held accountable to their actions today. Every single person will be remembered for what they did here today, for good or for bad. Remember today! Palmar or annul THIS is pro-town? You have to be fucking kidding me. On the case itself, which I won't quote b/c it's fucking huge. Prplhz DID claim a blue role when he said "our". Did annul need to go balls deep on it? No, but Palmar is bullshitting around with this point. Palmar says there's no such thing as a blueslip, well I've never heard of it but it isn't like all the language used in this thread has been orthodox. Making up a word to describe something is scum now? K. I'm confused by Palmar's next point (his agreement in large part with syllo). Syllo says Palmar must be a mind reader to know v7 would shoot Soap instead of Palmar. No, he doesn't, he was trolling all day 1. At that point he probably didn't give a shit if he got shot. Oh hey look, annul voted to lynch the person who was ruining any discussion all day 1 and didn't die during the night. I for one, am shocked. Oh hey look at what Palmar is advocating, annul has dropped off the map and is now lurking, he must be scum, NO ONE ELSE WOULD LURK. Oh, except for the guy we lynched d1. Glad everyone decided to ride on that bandwagon. His final point is that because annul asks why everyone is listening to Palmar, he must be scum. That isn't logical at all! Right? Right? Oh wait. So you're telling me Palmar trolled all through day 1 in order to make it to day 2, he then proceeds to become a model citizen and shove annul out in front of everyone because he is now lurking and is a really easy target. Have I mentioned the fact that Palmar has been pressuring people to the point that they've had to reveal their roles? What idiotic shit is that? Guess what else explains v7's outburst and sudden town-cred, Palmar and v7 setting that shit up. But I'm sure that would be way too hard to do. Onto your case Rad. So, you're pretty much saying annul should have shot Palmar (what with Palmar being annul's best scum read). What if Palmar flips town? Not only do we lose our floridian, we lose our jack because no one is going to believe annul is town at that point. So what to do. Ask for the "most town" person to pick doesn't seem like an extremely horrible decision. Even if it was, my point still stands. What the hell about this shot makes annul scum and v7 town? They were both pressured into doing STUPID shit. So now we lynch as a punishment? The case against annul reads to me like this. Annul voted after presenting a weak case, annul lurked for a while, annul shot a townie after being piled on by the wagon. Am I missing anything? Why are we pushing for annul so hard? We should have him tell us his powers so we can use them tonight. Is there no one else you think is scummy? Palmar did a pretty good job convincing you it seems. Also, why were you pressuring the jacks to reveal everything about themselves? Scum knowing their powers is BAD for us. | ||
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On December 09 2011 11:57 Radfield wrote: Wait hold on. I'm not even sure what you're referring to now. Palmar did not OMGUS annul. Annul had been voting and pushing Palmar for 36 hours before the flip, at which point Palmar accused annul of being scum. An accusation that was at that time based on new information to the thread. Palmar did NOT force annul out into the open. Palmar built a case and pushed it. Palmar did NOT force vaderseven into the open. Palmar applied pressure to see if vader actually had notes. Yes they both resulted in an outted jack, but the motivation from Palmar in both cases was sound. Here is my problem with Palmar's play. Why is he pushing so hard for this on day1 and day2? He's expecting people to expect his actions to be in town's best interest. So when he pressures two jacks out into the open and gets two townies shot, oh well damn, I was playing like an idiot to force them to react to me. How about you just play smart, not force stupid bullshit out of people. Why don't you NOT troll the fuck out of everyone day 1 making yourself suspicious. Why not build yourself up as credible. His actions mean to me that he is either scum, or he's assuming everyone is an idiot that needs to be forced into action. | ||
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The only good thing I can find going through your filter is your analysis on Palmar. Almost everything else is a one-liner. | ||
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On December 09 2011 12:48 Mattchew wrote: WE HAVE 10 FUCKING MINUTES PEOPLE ITS redFF OR NO LYNCH... YOU DECIDE Do not force people to vote for someone they don't think is scum. Let people come to their own logical conclusions. I agree with you that redFF is more than likely scum, but you need to cool off with some of this stuff. People need to vote for who they think is scum. Bandwagons are stupid. | ||
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On December 09 2011 12:55 bumatlarge wrote: From what I can see he's better then redff. That guy has been pushing palmar the entire game? Where is the analysis on redff, or are we just voting blindly as usual? What analysis led you to believe that annul was scum? Did you not see v7's post telling us annul is town? | ||
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Palmar proved it by using his additional vote in both lynches so far. This makes no sense. | ||
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On December 11 2011 23:09 Drazerk wrote: If you think Red is lying he is our next best target, you seem to be ignoring everyone who knows my meta and knows what I am capable of as town in order to try and lynch me. You don't want to lynch a town? Well you seem to be doing what you can in order to do so. I'm going to judge this based on an IRC game I had with draz where he was town and lied claiming cop, when I was cop. I've seen this play from him before and it's the only thing saving him from my vote right now. I'm placing my vote, once again, on redFF. I don't trust him, and his claim that he was roleblocked doesn't help at all. ##vote redFF | ||
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On December 05 2011 02:24 redFF wrote: posts useless list the very next thing he says basically calls the list useless I'm not sure what the point of this question is. Nobody (except maybe scum) knows for sure. It's pointless setup speculation to look like contributing with a hint of rolefishing. I'm fairly sure this isn't going to happen, dumb idea. Besides we could never trust the person generating the number to not influence it themselves in some way. Posts some semi-useful analysis day 1 of Palmar's play. Follows it up with this... On December 05 2011 02:57 redFF wrote: hey at least its a case instead of pointless setup discussion and posts saying obvious things like this Ok. My question is why do all this useless analysis when it's pretty clear Palmar is just trolling the shit out of everyone? Once Palmar provides his little defense against the "weak" cases against him, redff proceeds to just drop off him. On December 05 2011 21:23 redFF wrote: ##Unvote meh palmar you're ok for now can't get over corrupt saying "so many suspicious people" and then only being able to list 1 and then ignoring my pushing of the issue. ##Vote Corrupt Changing your mind is ok. Changing it to someone who is stumbling around and made a "slip" like that? (He said he thought a lot of people were suspicious and only came up with 2 when grilled) Seems pretty stupid to me. There were other viable targets at the time, like Zeph. Thus begins the massive flood of useless posts starring your favorites... On December 06 2011 00:54 redFF wrote: i have 3k posts On December 06 2011 01:54 redFF wrote: that was fucking stupid. On December 06 2011 09:43 redFF wrote: anyone not on a large wagon is anti town To me, much of his posting just seems to be reactionary callouts on people who want to vote him because as he likes to point out... On December 11 2011 03:26 redFF wrote: my play is so different from my scum play it's unreal. I'm gonna pull a palmar and say the good players know im town. also if nobody claims a second roleblock then either eran was lying or rad was rb'd or we have a town rb. He gets back on his Palmar wagon, for no apparent reason at all (he certainly doesn't see the need to point out his reasons) and then instaswaps to Drazerk when it comes out that Draz has LIED. Of all the things to confirm someone as an easy lynch target, it's lying. Do I approve of Draz's lie? No. I think it's really, really, really stupid. I told him as much in our IRC game, but he doesn't seem to care what I think and is dead set on his strategy. What I disapprove of even less is redFF's willingness to all of a sudden jump on Draz because of one thing. This is why I have placed my vote on redFF. I don't think anyone has a more compelling case piled up against them. TL;too many quotes: redFF has been on pretty much just Palmar all game, easy case against Draz pops up and he's on him like white on rice. he posts a shitton of useless one-liners that just serve to keep him "active" | ||
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EBWOP: And this. He can't help but post in ALL CAPS BECAUSE APPARENTLY THAT HELPS MAKE POINTS!!! | ||
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On December 12 2011 08:28 Palmar wrote: The only good thing that can possibly come out of this is that there is a chance redFF is scum too. But I was leaning towards his reasons for not supporting my case last night being just bad. I mean, the guy has only voted townies so far (me, prplhz, hier). But I think redFF could be scum, I know annul is scum. Did you read my analysis? RedFF hasn't been helpful at all. I feel much more strongly about redFF than I do about annul, one way or the other. | ||
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On December 12 2011 08:56 Jackal58 wrote: You missed redFF's day 3 roleblock claim Also, Drazerk's admission that he was lying in hopes of getting shot. | ||
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On December 12 2011 10:59 Mattchew wrote: whats the counts at? You're seriously too lazy to go check the auto-update? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291512 RedFF has 10, annul has 6 | ||
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On December 14 2011 04:00 vaderseven wrote: Annul, you are a LIAR. Option 1 on Refallen? You choose to be a vet and target someone? LYNCH. ##vote annul GOD i hate being played. What the fuck? You've been like... THE pro-annul person in this game and then you flip to him on something that doesn't even make sense? | ||
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On December 14 2011 16:27 vaderseven wrote: And it IS omgus before you say it isn't. Imagine a 3 player game. 1 mafia, 1 cop, 1 VT. The cop and the mafia both say I AM THE COP. They then both vote each other. They are both OMGUSing each other. I thought OMGUS meant omg you suck... am I wrong? | ||
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On December 14 2011 16:35 vaderseven wrote: It is everything? The difference or the ordering of the claims? I don't get how thats everything. Vet and Bulletproof are common roles that can be on either side of mafia/town. OHH I get it. It is everything meaning that it is the crucial thing that forced your hand and, as such, has to be a part of everything you say concerning you vs me from this point on. I said vet was option 1 and then you said thats wrong and posted your list. You are counterclaiming bulletproof to my vet and saying that vet is anti-town. I say that vet is a fine town ability (lol at saying it isn't, nice use of comparison to create an abstract negative view of something that in reality is a positive). I also say that your counterclaim of bulletproof to my vet is a smoke screen to take attention off the fact that you LIED and said you used option 1 on Refallen. I called you out on that and said option one is a vet and then voted for you. Funny how that difference is 'everything.' I think the lie that you got caught in is everything. I'd argue that it isn't a lie, but instead a slip, if you feel it's a scumslip that's fine. I didn't vote annul because I didn't agree with Palmar's case against him, and I still don't. His flipping town was a surprise to me, I thought for sure he was scum. The only thing I've seen from annul that's been scummy has been his giving away of his dayvig and possibly that slip you're riding him for v7 (which is fine, at this point slips like that are all we have to go on). The only other people I have scumreads on are Mattchew and hyshes at this point. Since no one is going to vote Mattchew, that leaves me with hyshes and annul. Honestly, I want to vote hyshes because at this point there's no reason for having posted THAT little. I haven't been as active as I wanted to be, but at least I'm trying to help. Hyshes isn't. Mattchew has been posting enough that he's been contributing (even if he's been "horrible" at it) and letting people get reads on him. Again, hyshes isn't. So I'm left with looking and the only people I have a scumread on are voting annul. Then, the two people I've felt are town are voting hyshes (because of his horrible play, as opposed to what everyone else seems to be doing which is, omg Palmar) I'm placing my vote on hyshes. If it comes down to lynch annul or don't lynch at all I will move my vote onto him. As it stands, he's getting lynched anyways. ##vote hyshes Just as an afterthought. I was saying we shouldn't lynch Hier day 1 because we didn't have any posts to go off of and Hier was wayyyy too easy. Now it's day 3 and we have to lynch someone who's been playing scummy. Useless lurker is scummy at worst, horrible town at best. I'm leaning towards scum. | ||
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On December 06 2011 14:45 Hier wrote: It seems I have underestimated the amount of terrible town players in this game. I don't lurk, ever. Nor do I plan to. Not as town, not as scum. If I don't post, it's because I can't. Also, what kind of a pathetic death was that? I'll remember that, WBG. gg This isn't relevant now, and it might not be relevant at all. I just wanted to bring to light the part he bolded. Is there a role that makes it so people aren't allowed to post in the thread? Or did he just mean he couldn't post b/c he had real life issues? | ||
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On December 14 2011 16:59 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, I'm good with this. ##Unvote: Drazerk ##Vote: vaderseven You're right. I haven't voted annul yet. And I'm still not. I've had a town read on annul all fucking game, and after this revelation, I'm fucking glad. I went back and looked over v7's posts. He's been very VERY careful indeed about going with the flow of town. He's been down with every 'town-decided' lynch that's gone down. Annul's right, the BP vs Vet thing is huge. It's what's going to land us our first scum lynch today. Scum wouldn't need the extra protection the BP part role provides, so it only makes sense that scum would get Vet instead of BP. vaderseven is flailing scum guys. His reaction to annul's pressure has me completely convinced. You need to go reread some of that filter. I'll agree with you that v7 has been following town for the most part, but he shot a townie day 1... he kind of had to. Also, he went AGAINST the annul lynch yesterday, which the majority of people seemed to want until redFF (if you're reading this redFF next time you're town don't fuck around and try to rely on meta, meta is a stupid thing to rely on to vouch for your actions. I'm not saying it's useless, but to rely on it is bad) | ||
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Make a case against someone else, if we manage to avoid fucking up, we can talk about v7 day 4. I don't see anything that would lead to v7 as mafia, and the one thing that would have (Palmar flipping town) is gone. Summary: V7 isn't going to get lynched today. Voting on him is pretty much a vote for nolynch because too many people think v7 is town (myself included). Make your case for someone else, this is useless. | ||
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##unvote hyshes ##vote sandroba | ||
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On December 15 2011 12:18 Refallen wrote: Oh god no... link? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291212&user=21688¤tpage=4 Between his posts prior to this and that slip... | ||
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On December 15 2011 12:43 vaderseven wrote: So we ahve 10 on him and 6 on annul? There is 6 mafia left right now, assuming a worst case and there is 6 voting for San right now that last minute change AND annul is actually town (which a red flip on San would most certainly support), they could bring that to 6 on San and 12 on annul. ##unvote Annul ##vote sandroba That brings us to 11 on San and 5 on annul, worst case vote changing can bring that to 7 on San and 11 on Annul. What is the needed for a lynch? We need 9 for a lynch. | ||
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On December 15 2011 12:59 annul wrote: here we go | ||
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On December 15 2011 13:29 Refallen wrote: So it was just town sucking then? =( And so it comes to this... Godspeed Ref. Town victory rests upon your shoulders (I'm assuming since v7 sent in his action, you're the only person left to send in theirs) Then again, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe town has a HUGE advantage this game instead of just an average one. | ||
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On December 15 2011 13:38 Mattchew wrote: or does town still have roles taht are not refallen? Has refallen sent in his PM? If he has and there's more town roles... that's interesting lol. | ||
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On December 15 2011 13:49 kingjames01 wrote: Do you know what I am? Vanilla townie or this game isn't balanced at all. | ||
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On December 15 2011 14:30 Toadesstern wrote: btw I still think this shit is imbalanced We got 4 mislynched in a row, we even got townies dayvigging each other, we even got mafias protecting each other day1 from town dayvigs. And STILL it's close as it can get. Yup. With semi-competent town I don't see how mafia has a remote chance. We'll see in the post-game discussion. | ||
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On December 15 2011 14:33 sandroba wrote: LOL toad it's not imba, 6 mafia in 25 players already favors scum. We did some pretty risky shit and apparently it hasn't worked out, pretty fair if we lose this =P When everything comes out, no, it doesn't favor scum. Not at all. If mafia was regular mafia then yeah, it might be even. As it stands? Not a chance. | ||
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On December 16 2011 02:21 Drazerk wrote: So why did scum push me so much? Because you were so scummy. | ||
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On December 16 2011 02:22 Toadesstern wrote: btw that was the chance we were talking about you needed 2 succesfull saves + 1 right RB at the same time so it was (2/10)*(2/9)*(1/5) = 4 / 450 chance to win. well actually it's more like (2/10)*(2/9)*(1/3) because you guys already knew that you don't have to RB me or annul but yeah, still only a 4/270 chance You are assuming they don't have even more hidden roles. As it stands, they have v7 jack, ref medic. Ref isn't confirmed medic until he dies, maybe someone else is a medic. Who knows, but there's pretty much 2 confirmed power roles left, I have a feeling there's another one as well. | ||
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##vote xsksc | ||
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On December 19 2011 03:20 Jackal58 wrote: I did nothing wrong. Hyshes has 3 votes on him. He's lynched. Game over. I am Floridian. | ||
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On December 19 2011 07:36 Jackal58 wrote: A bit of advice for the hosts. If you are running a game that has had the time constraints removed from it don't post the day post seconds after mafia sends in their night actions. When Incog did that I knew that town had no night actions remaining. All I had to do was hope for a vote on somebody that wasn't me at that point. It wasn't really fair to town. You should have waited an hour or two before posting. At least call for night actions. You outed town. Couldn't town have sent theirs in and they were actually waiting on you? So many points in this game had me laughing my ass off. Palmar's valiant stand was one of the better points I've had playing Mafia ((I've played a whopping 3 games >.>)) | ||
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On December 19 2011 10:39 Jackal58 wrote: Dude. VE wanted to bus Sandro from day 1. Even if it meant outing himself all he wanted was to kill Sandro. I think every post Risen made was "sorry guys I've been out vote random townie" He was dead as soon as he voted for Sandro. Toad had wanted to post I AM SCUM at the beginning of all of his posts for 2 days. Annul was raging about balance. Sandroba was awol for the entire game and bussing Annul the entire time. I suggested the scum slip and they all loved it. It fucking worked. Don't tell me how stupid it was. You weren't privy to the most dysfunctional scum team ever. I deferred to Annul on kills and role blocks but most of the time I was in the IRQ telling every body to stop being stupid. To stop trying to be a hero. To forget about a perfect game. The move was fucking brilliant. It was the only time in the entire game all the cowboys were on the same page. It was pretty funny. Someone had posted about having a final so I was like, there's my excuse for the rest of the game since I'm not confident in my scum play. Time to lurk ^^ Also, all 4 of us weren't supposed to swap off lol. Annul and I were the only ones supposed to swap initially, with VE and Toad following if they were necessary ((IIRC, if I'm wrong point it out I was laughing too hard for the majority of this)) I was actually in IRC more than anyone except maybe annul XD On December 19 2011 10:59 wherebugsgo wrote: I am understanding what you're saying. You're just wrong. Annul and Risen voting at 7 and 8 was a mistake. VE unvoting was a mistake. You want a split vote to barely reach majority so that one unvote will force a no-lynch. In that case, Risen should've just afked and annul could've thrown his vote on anyone he wanted. You and VE could blast Toad/annul for unvoting. That's, at most, a 3 player sacrifice. Not 5. We pushed sand up to 8 because none of the townies would have swapped to sandroba without it being guaranteed that he could be lynched. It was the only way to save annul. Note that we had to push him to 8 and THEN townies swapped. | ||
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On January 01 2012 17:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote: what happened to the community it was awesome when i first started playing tbh its why i dont care about mafia at all anymore I'm sure not playing helps a lot. Nice bittervet status bro | ||
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