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On January 16 2012 04:29 syllogism wrote:That's not a meta argument at all; you can pretend the link isn't there and it is just as valid reason to believe your play isn't consistent with that of a townie. What you wrote about Tyrran applies quite well to you as well Show nested quote + His passivity and seeming lack of confidence in his reads and overall disinterest in the lynches just seems unlike most townies Even when you were in danger of being lynched you didn't particularly care Just like Risk didn't care, amiright?
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On January 16 2012 04:49 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 04:43 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On January 16 2012 04:29 syllogism wrote:That's not a meta argument at all; you can pretend the link isn't there and it is just as valid reason to believe your play isn't consistent with that of a townie. What you wrote about Tyrran applies quite well to you as well His passivity and seeming lack of confidence in his reads and overall disinterest in the lynches just seems unlike most townies Even when you were in danger of being lynched you didn't particularly care Just like Risk didn't care, amiright? Yes, you realize these are heuristics and can not conclusively determine alignment. Anyway, the hostility seems unnecessary considering it's your own lack of commitment to the game that has lead you to this point if you are town. Whether you have been busy is irrelevant and I strongly dislike people who keep making excuses for their activity day after day. You chose to join this game. Moreover, day post should clear some suspicion of you if you are town, so again you should concentrate on what matters rather than attacking someone who is clearly town. No, it is the no AoD kill night 1 + me in purgatory combined with me not in purgatory night 2 + AoD kill that got me here. And that is why this is fucking annoying, because I had no control over that. You at one point even explicitly stated you had no problem with my posting so far, unless that was a lie. And I'm pretty sure I've been more active than refallen, dirkzor, jackal, bluelightz, tyrran, grackaroni, zephirrd, and spaackle. Less active than I usually am? Yes. Missed being around at some key times? Yes. But I have still been pretty damn active. And what matters to me is convincing the single most influential person in this town, whom I also believe to be town, that he is mistaken on trying to lynch me. If you lynch me, you lynch the sage, I think that's pretty damn important to avoid and matters quite a bit.
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Layabout was twisted last night.
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On January 16 2012 11:19 Grackaroni wrote: I'm pretty suspicious of you're check HoD. @HoD : Why did you choose to check Layabout? What led you believe he was a demon? Who wants the sage dead more than demons do? Nobody. Who wants me dead more than layabout does? Nobody.
From a demon perspective I am either angel or sage, demons need both dead. Layabout is acting like somebody who needs me dead.
Also, I figured if he wasn't a demon, then he was likely corrupted town due to this:
On January 14 2012 22:52 layabout wrote: I will vote just before 8:00 KST. You will know why. And thus I would either identify a demon (good) or cleanse a corrupted town (also good).
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Also these:
On January 06 2012 22:47 layabout wrote:having read through recent townie Palmar games: nothing to see here (clicky) Palmar trolls and call people stupid stundent mafia he was smurfing as electric black Palmar make lots of reads election mafia read about half of this and filtered syllo+palamar hyra Arctocod, run for major and call people stupid Steamship mafia Palmar analyses and calls people stupid TL Mafia XLVII Palmar runs for major and calls people stupid I have seen quite a lot of variability in how town Palmar behaves, after these i read resistance I(which isn't quite mafia) and responsibilty mafia in which palmar was 3rd party/scum. In those games i could not confidently make inferences about his meta and correctly use them to determine whether he is scum or town, because there was not enough common day1 town traits that have become clear to me in the games of his i have read through, thoroughly. This was largely due to the variance in his play on day1. I feel like i have spent quite a lot of time reading through his post but i feel like i would need to do more to establish a strong read based on his meta that i would confidently support.
On January 06 2012 22:14 layabout wrote:What do all of these players have in common?Blazinghand Bluelightz Dirkzor(?) Grackaroni HarbingerOfDoom layabout Tyrran xsksc Zephirdd To my knowledge they (we) are all relatively new to TL mafia having played a small number of games each. It seems highly unlikely that any of us will have read a large enough number of games to have strong understanding of any other players meta. If you do not have a strong understanding of a certain players meta you cannot use your own judgement of that players meta against them. You cannot compare their play to your idea of their meta and reach a conclusion. Instead you are reliant on other players assessment of that player meta and how their play this game is supposedly incriminating. As town you should be reliant on your own judgements and reach your own conclusions and you should not vote entirely because somebody else has a reason that you cannot verify *. Furthermore despite my limited experience of your various playstyles even i was able to spot an error in Wiggles "meta analysis Palmar is normally a very aggressive and direct townie. He is not afraid to share his reads, to call people out, and to use his vote to pressure. He tunnels, and he is happy to call out bad play when he sees it. However, this is not the Palmar that we have in this game. Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 23:24 xsksc wrote: Hi guys. First multi-factional game for me as well, not really sure how we should proceed strategy-wise. Lynching an angel day 1 would obviously be ideal, although getting a demon is definitely better than a townie. On January 04 2012 21:13 Refallen wrote: Is this some kind of metagame thing again? Dosen't Palmar always troll around in day 1? I remember that in TLXLVIII.
Yeah, and then he went on to be one of the only useful townies that actually read the game and used his brain. On January 04 2012 21:07 syllogism wrote: We should probably lynch palmar today, he appears to be some sort of scum and hating his life right now
Syllo, if Palmar does decide to mess around on day one again, would it not be better to wait and see how he behaves later on (like in TLXVIII), rather than just lynching him? Apparently he often trolls day1 anyway? If players who feel that they know his meta disagree about what his meta is how can i or the others trust them? Simply, voting for a player based soley on meta that does not come from your own judgements instead of voting based on your own judgements is either bad town play or scum play.Mr. Wiggles is encouraging people to vote for bad reasons (from their perspective) since at least half of the players in the thread have an extremely low chance of having solid enough meta on Palmar and Palmar isn't going to vote for himself, then the majority of town cannot justify an entirely meta based case vote on day 1.-Similarly i cannot justify voting based on risk.nuke's meta. -As far as i am concerned Grackaroni doesn't have any points worth considering against HoD. -I also see no case against RoL. Therefore we should go for a proper case with reasons that we can support, instead. We should lynch Grackaroni. *well you could verify it by spending a long time going through past games but i doubt that anyone has the time nor the effort to spare to do so``` ``` are footnotes within footnotes better or worse than spoilers within spoilers? Clearly defending Palmar day 1.
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Re: Layabout's case
You're right layabout, I should have been cared about the lynch day 2 as much as you did and not place a vote at any point during the day. That shows you care a lot more than I do.
I also liked that part where you didn't include this day 1 post of mine and then claim I never gave reasons for why Tyrran was scummy until the large day 2 post I made.
On January 07 2012 15:03 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 09:12 Tyrran wrote:On January 07 2012 07:47 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Well, it appears as though xsksc is no longer playing this game, as his last post was: January 04 2012 23:24. I don't like lynching lurkers, but from what I know of Erandorr, his lurking makes him likely to be scum, and I do like lynching scum. Barring him showing an actual commitment to playing, I would be fine with lynching him. On risk.nuke, his playstyle seems to vary a good deal between games, so I am not sold on him being scum yet and would certainly like to hear a bit more from him before deciding whether or not I think he is worth a lynch. TyrranTyrran's play seems very different from his play in steamship where he was town. He is being much less aggressive so far, and usually people are more aggressive as town than they are as scum. I think he would make a fine lynch for the day. My only qualm with lynching him is that he hasn't interacted with other players much so far, so his flip will be less revealing, but I like our odds of hitting scum here. My vote will be on him for now. His steamship filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=57176His filter so far this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=57176##Vote: Tyrran If you read steamship mafia, you'll notice i wasnt really active before I had some hard fact to analyse ( ie kenpachi lynch). I'm not good at analysing Meta, because its only my second game here. Half the accusation here are made on meta. I'm looking for contradictions, votes, something i can work on. I dont like making case for the sake on making one. I'll make a case after day 1, when i'll have more info to work with. No, I accused you of being non-aggressive/passive, not of being inactive. Saying that you weren't very active at first in steamship doesn't have any bearing on the argument I am making. Comparing these posts, which were 2 of your first 4 posts in steamship: + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 04:01 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:00 Sabin010 wrote:On November 16 2011 02:37 Zephirdd wrote:On November 16 2011 02:25 Tyrran wrote:On November 16 2011 01:59 Sabin010 wrote: I agree about lynching liars, but if we're lynching lurkers because they're not active just doesn't seem to be a good way to go about this. If some one proposes we lynch a lurker, I'm not voting. So you are basically saying : " hey mafia, go lurk and stop posting and you'll be safe from me". I hope you understand how this is suspicious. Gotta agree with Tyrran here. Lurkers are bad for townies. That said, I don't want to just go on "lynch ALL the lurkers!" mode, but at least lynching one or two a day should make them stay in high alert. You know I never thought about it like that. What kind of defense is that ? No, I dont know what is in your head. The only reason you gave for not lynching lurkers is it "I'm sure some of the lurkers are blues". And we are not speaking of lynching them rigth now, but more toward the end of day 1. Not being active is one of the easiest way for mafia player to stay under the radar. we should prevent taht as much as possible. And blues, stay active, dont get lynched. On November 16 2011 20:07 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 18:23 prplhz wrote: Yea I like Kenpachi as a lynch too
##Vote Kenpachi So you were a fervent defender of only lynching 'scummy' lurkers. And now you suddenly decide to vote for kenpachi without giving any reason Could you please detail a bit more on why you like kenpachi as a vote, other than the fact that he did not post much ? His townie claim basically does not mean anything Keeping an eyes on lurkers is good, but i would wait to the end on day 1(the last 24 hours) before voting for one of them. It seems to me that blanket voting this early on day one can only lead us divide our attention. Voting for someone whenever he says something strange without trying to pressure him more/confirm him as scum is a great way to lynch a lot of townies and seems to be a good strategy for the mafia side, but not that great for town ( obviously). Bumatlarge espescially has been trying to push the town into lynching as many people as possible. Almost each one of his post include a quote on how we should lynch every single player. Spoiler below shows some example from this filter : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=31777+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 10:36 bumatlarge wrote:Why would you FoS when you can just vote them. Don't be pansies. Realized I didn't properly vote. I doubt I will ever take my vote off of kenpachi, it's not that I don't like him, but he is not an asset to the town at the moment, or the forseeable future. Nisani has proceeded to call me dumb or scum, but that doesn't change the fact that his fluffy posts stick out, so it will stay there until he remedies it. ##Vote: Kenpachi ##Vote: Nisani201And this Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:13 Drazerk wrote:##Vote: Sabin010
Bad vibes also this - On November 16 2011 00:22 Sabin010 wrote: I have seen to many games where we lose our cop or doc first day and end up wasting our time as the mob picks us off. On November 16 2011 01:06 Sabin010 wrote: This is my first game and im not sure of all the terms. I thought scum, mob, and mafia are the same. Is why LAL is bad. What possible reason would cause mafia to post this instead of town. By all means keep up the detective work and checking out all the inconsistencies, but use a little sense. This definetely contradicts itself, and it could very well be an intentional lie, but even that doesn't make him scum. The bad strategy reason tht DCL brought up is actually something to go on. You are pushing your luck by trying to find lies a day into the game. Use that energy to filter a suspicious person instead and get a general vibe, and see if their future posts push you one way or the other. If there wasn't a majority lynch in play, I'd put my vote on everyone, and start taking off people who don't register as scum. That's about how many people I think should be lynched each day. On November 16 2011 02:32 bumatlarge wrote:Next person that mentions LAL is getting a vote placed on them. Seriously enough with the useless shit. We will be lynching however many scummy people we can find on the particular day. We are restricting ourselves when we don't have a clue as to what our boundaries are.Nisani has posted complete fluff and none of it shows any effort in actually heling town. I don't think the new people are brain-dead, so unless the specifically ask about something, don't use them as an excuse to post asinine shit. Oh, hi kibbibit ##Vote Nisani201 On November 16 2011 12:37 bumatlarge wrote: We got 48 hours from now, right? This time tomorrow we need to look at the votes and see where people stand. I'm honestly surprised how few votes there are, you get as many as you want, a decent townie can take advantage of this. There is no comparing how scummy certain players are to others, you just lynch them or you don't. I guess it's still early, and I'm still fishing for reads here. Oh and surprise, the only post not advocating to lynch the entire town is to defend chaoser, the ONLY person that agreed with the 'vote for everyone' strategy, after he got pressured by WBG. And by defending him, he explains than chaoser should stop doing just what he was advocating the town to do i.e: vote for everyone that seems scummy. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 12:50 bumatlarge wrote: Welcome to WBG logic. But that doesn't make what he says untrue, I think chaoser should focus his attention more and prove singleton cases rather then babble on about everything. Doubt he's scum though. So you spend all your post explaining we should vote for anyone who seems scummy, and you defend chaoser that was doing exactly that by saying "he should focus his attention more". How is that not a huge contradiction ? FoS bumatlarge. to your play so far just seems incredibly different. It reads to me like you are playing scared this game. Scared because you're scum.
Don't comment on things you don't know about, it makes you look bad.
Underlined: In steamship, if town had lynched those 7 players you would have killed zephird, Greymist and cyber cheese, since Greymists role is what killed town after the roleclaim then that plan arguably would have won the game, so i don't get what your point is. If we lynched them all in one day the platform collapses and nobody gets lynched instead of all of them getting lynched, wasting an entire day. The OP hinted at this by saying there were dangers in store for a town that lynches too many people in one day, but RoL suggested lynching 7 at once.
his original question was "Hey look - a list! Care to explain anything about it? Lists without reasons are pretty useless filler." I wanted to make the point that given how vague this question was and given that i had raised suspicions about the players in the list i felt that it was redundant question. I then challenged him to make his first real contribution. But alas my inept typing/formatting let me down. And like every other person to lose an argument ever he corrects my grammar and ignores my point. You think a vague question that requires a contribution to answer it is useless, but a vague challenge to make a contribution is good, I see, I see.
Underlined:Clearly a lot of people didn't have null reads on risk nuke as he had reached 9 votes before AND was under a lot of pressure at this time AND was lynched quite a while before the lynch deadline. And not a lot of people here have played 4 out of 4 of their games with risk in them either. What's your point?
On January 06 2012 05:26 layabout wrote:Grackaroni: In this post his writes a pile of nothing to call HoD scum. my comments have been italicised Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 04:06 Grackaroni wrote:HarbingerofDoom is my scum pick. He was one of the first people into the game and took a lot of time to comment on the setup. (this is what the majority of his posts are about) -a completely null tellAt the start of the game he asks for us to give strategies for demons/angels which to me seemed weird from a town perspective and not beneficial to town. -asking to not reveal game winning strategies for the other team is weird for town?this strikes me as counter-intuitiveIn Newbie mini Mafia he was very active and spent a lot of time scum hunting. So far there has been no scumhunting done by him -no scumhunting halfway into day 1, applies to a large number of players in this game and isn't necessarily a scummy thing to do.On January 05 2012 15:05 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: So how would people feel about lynching Palmar or Erandorr if they don't start posting more? Both have posted nothing of worth so far, Palmar was even active elsewhere on the mafia forum today, and both are known for doing very little as scum. He seems fairly content with lynching a lurker. (Palmar/Errandorr are the only people he's pushed lynches for) Together this paints a picture to me, he is one of the earlier players to sign up, he was here right when the game started, he had the time to post quite a few things about the setup which tells us nothing about his allignment. In another game when he is town he is more active and does a lot of scumhunting but in this game he wants a lurker lynch.(granted it did include some meta with it) He has the time to post but chooses not to. I'll wait for more posts. -here he accepts HoD's early posting is null tell-he offers weak "meta analysis" based off of a single game-decides to wait for more information, likely because the case isn't strong enough to justify voting Emphasises the "Unless you have a counter" part. As if that justifies the don't talk about scum strats in an open setup stance. (it doesn't) So earlier you thought it made sense from a town perspective, now you disagree with it?
bolded: "Don't use meta from my first (but recent) game against me. I have changed. Use meta from a game where i was account sharing day1 when you try to analyse my day1 play, or use meta from another game". The "I've obviously adjusted my play" really doesn't hold weight given how few games he has played. Earlier it was weak to use it, now it is fine, I see...
The sage on the other hand probably shouldn't claim unless he has 2 demons identified. If he claims with only one identified, 0% chance of reducing kp or reducing the corruption ability, demons have a roleblock ability, angels can kill the sage to make demons a larger threat to town thereby reducing focus on them. Still gain information obviously, but overall seems like a much weaker play than the seer claiming after finding an angel. The above was a statement I made day 1.
When he said just that the sage should not claim without two "demon" results? If he was the sage it would make sense to add, "if they are going to be lynched then the sage should claim" because that is what he claims he is doing now. According to day1 HoD the sage should not have claimed in day 3 HoD's position. Day3 HoD had zero demons identified. The demon role-blocker is dead, and I had about 45 minutes to defend myself from a lynch before I had to leave again, clearly I should have not claimed and died instead. Makes perfect sense.
top part just isn't valid. + you had no reason to mash your keyboard as if the other person is wrong and can't see it because you are wrong. I needed something that started with a g to continue my breadcrumb. Keyboard mashing was the easiest g beginning I could come up with that made sense in the context
He posts what i think are townreads? Which is odd because he has called Spack and BL scum RoL is getting lynched instead of him, he hasn't commented on jackal other than (he was right about Palmar) and he then starts to attack me.. It clearly states scum reads, but I guess I should know by now not to expect much reading comprehension from you. ...in fact in the same post you post the correct interpretation:
You then post very little to called Zephird, one of your bottom 6 un-town-like Why contradict yourself within the same post?
I can respond to more points of it if needed, but I think that is sufficient for now.
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I am the sage. Layabout was twisted last night. Grackaroni is not a demon. These are the facts I have for the town, if you don't want to accept them then so be it, but they are all facts. I think this makes layabout fairly likely to be a demon, but it is possible they were merely guessing who I would check. Regardless, we need to focus on lynching an angel today.
@Layabout Syllo was also arguing that I was scum-buddies with RoL, a scenario that is now known by all to be 100% impossible, so don't go using his assumptions as the basis for your argument. I don't care whether you are demon or town right now, all I know is you are not an angel, and I am not an angel, and we really must kill an angel today. So let's do that, shall we? Hell, if you think I am an angel so much, please point out one of my angel scum buddies and let's lynch the shit out of him, ok?
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Blazinghand, I think it might be worthwhile to reveal who was not dark. I also find it very unlikely layabout is an angel with how hard he is pushing for my lynch. I don't think an angel would want the sage dead this badly and have been twisted by the demons last night, although I suppose I could be wrong.
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100% impossible Well, first of all I am the sage so it was 100% impossible to begin with. But, RoL was either the channeler, or scum. If he was the channeler, obviously we can't be scum buddies, regardless of my alignment. If he was scum, then wiggles was the channeler and nobody has counterclaimed me, which therefore requires me being the sage. Or, you know, the sage to be absolutely fucking retarded.
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If Syllo was the sage, why on earth would he post this, directed at me, right before dying? There would be no "if you are town".
On January 16 2012 05:16 syllogism wrote: If you are town, you should examine the wagon on you before you claimed and what people were saying. Actually I'm now reading it a bit and this is somewhat changing my view on things
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@layabout Look at this:
On January 14 2012 10:03 Grackaroni wrote: EBWOP : in case I didn't make it clear. ##Vote: HarbingerOfDoom he has a good chance of being the AoD and nobody wants to vote the people I think are likely to be scum.
On January 14 2012 03:53 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 02:20 layabout wrote:On January 13 2012 11:10 Zephirdd wrote:On January 13 2012 11:04 Refallen wrote: That's retarded. After syllo posted his "I want to die", channeled should have taken the hint and roleblocked harbringer instead. Or maybe he had the same logic as me? At least this now confirms syllo as town. MrWiggles was town as well; He couldn't possibly be Demon(see his Palmar case). We just won't know if he was a blue or not. TBH that was a poor decision by the AoD, unless he had actually found an Angel and was ready to push him. His last actions were attacking RoL. Apply Occam's Razor(The correct solution is usually the simplest one), ##Vote RoL What is poor about the decision to kill and experienced player that had already caught 1 scum this game? I just think it's a waste of game mechanics; Killing someone who people didn't knew would create a bigger confusion, as in "we don't know how many demons live". MrWiggles was obviously not a Demon, so it is kind of a waste of a mechanic. Granted, we don't know if he was a blue, but I don't think it matters as much at this point. I like Grack's case on Spaackle; I still have a hard time to understand why HoD was jailed n1, and by who. Maybe his posts about mechanics made Palmar want him roleblocked? No idea, but I can't see HoD as scum from his filter.RoL still looks like the best lynch, but we'll see what happens. Then votes for me within the next 6 hours or so.
On January 14 2012 10:24 Bluelightz wrote: @LB I'm back and should I vote? On January 14 2012 10:27 Bluelightz wrote: Okay, i'll wait for more people to start posting. Also, can you link me to cases against HoD? On January 14 2012 10:33 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 10:31 Grackaroni wrote: BL, why are you considering voting before even reading the cases?
"Hey everybody let's lynch HoD cmon" Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 08:12 layabout wrote:Current Vote Count: + Show Spoiler +On December 28 2011 15:42 ZBot wrote: Vote count for the Day 3 Lynch.
With 13 alive, 7 votes are required to lynch.
Current votes:
HarbingerOfDoom (3): Tyrran, syllogism, layabout
RebirthOfLeGenD (2): Grackaroni, Zephirdd, Blazinghand, -Zephirdd
Spaackle (1): Zephirdd
Bluelightz (1): Jackal58
Blazinghand (1): RebirthOfLeGenD
The Day 3 deadline is at January 15 2012 10:00 KST. (That's approximately 1 day, 1:48:45 from now.) Vote HarbingerOfDoom
On January 15 2012 04:03 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 04:00 syllogism wrote: Now that you are here RoL, please move your vote to HoD Fine, and yes, tomorrow you will get more from me. Significantly more. If you want, I can post all my suspects tomorrow but it doesn't make much sense when we can only lynch one at a time, but I will get around to it. I work all weak between the hours of 12-6 roughly, but around those times I will work in more analysis. HoD, your claim seems of desperation and as I pointed out the correlation between you and BH and him not mentioning you at all for the last 3 pages of his filter don't sit right. That, and I know you are a better lynch than me.
On January 14 2012 10:49 Refallen wrote: Honestly I don't know what to think of Bluelightz. He dosen't make any sense to me at all. I feel like no one is going to oppose lynching him, but then he might just as likely flip town vanilla, something that has happened countless times when we tried to go after people who aren't making any sense (again, election mafia comes to mind here).
That being said, HoD now has 5 votes. Tyrran and Grackaroni I'm not sure of, but I'm fairly certain layabout, syllo, and Zeph are all town. Jackal, what do you think of us two hammering? I feel like a switch is unlikely at this point. Does that sound like a bunch of valid supporters to you, all wanting to lynch me for being scum?
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-_- goddammit I already told you he wasn't a demon.
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@Tyrran I am not sure how to distinguish the AoD from any other angels, but I am rereading through the thread and filters now to see what might be some reasonable angel scum teams. AoD would be ideal, but I'll settle for any of them being lynched.
Oh yeah, and Wiggles is guaranteed to have been town-aligned. Angels wouldn't kill one of their own, and the twister and the concealer were alive during the day yesterday (concealer acted during the day, twister at night). I know it was already extremely likely he was town, but just thought that might be worth mentioning.
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@Blazinghand So if the seer is alive, 2 vanilla towns remain. If not, 3 remain. Your not dark comes from one of the remaining vanillas or an angel.
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@Jackal We have the sage and demon hunter still and the demons lost their courier. So long as the demon hunter targets blazinghand, demons cannot have a majority tomorrow. They also wouldn't have one if I cleanse someone, or they try to corrupt an angel, or if the angels kill one of them or if the angels kill a corrupted town. We would then have an additional night to try to cleanse/kill them during which they cannot corrupt another person. Even if they obtain a majority of votes tomorrow, they have to deal with me, the demon hunter, and the angels. If they out themselves and their corrupted townies to get me lynched, the demon hunter (assuming the angels don't kill him) and remaining angel(s) have a field day. Basically, we have a lot of outs for dealing with the demons. We only have lynching to deal with angels.
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@Layabout Who, if anyone, is an acceptable lynch to you besides myself.
Re: Bluelightz I've read his filter through a couple times and it still confuses the hell out of me T_T, might be a decent last-resort option for today's lynch, but I'm going to keep reading to see if I can find people with more alignment-enlightening filters to go after today. Dirkzor defended Bluelightz early on for what it's worth:
I dislike a lynch on Bluelightz. He have been active and trying to contribute. How his contributions have helped town can be discussed but I take that as bad play rather then him being scum. He is just a guy who saids what he wants in one sentence. =)
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I think these 3 are the most likely to be angels, however I think it is likely only 2 of these 3 are angels: Bluelightz Dirkzor Tyrran
Although I am not sure if Dirkzor's suspicion of Tyrran is genuine or distancing, this quote from Tyrran is quite odd:
Dirkzor is not set in stone. Maybe we should not lynch him despite him being scummy, because he migth flip town. I would also like to propose that if we get someone to 3 or 4 votes and they are a demon, they are free to claim to avoid the lynch. Since I think it is nigh impossible that Blazinghand could claim corrupted town as an angel, a vote-switch code with him to signify whether someone is falsely claiming demon could be established. This would allow demons to remain hidden unless we were going to lynch one anyway, and should prevent angels from false claiming demon to escape a lynch. Thoughts on this? Anyone else have what they think might be an angel team?
If the seer is still alive, how many not-angel reads on still living people would justify a seer claim today?
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On January 17 2012 14:57 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 10:35 Grackaroni wrote: It seems like we've came to an agreement that we want to lynch an angel though. I don't see Layabout flipping Angel. Bluelightz would be a much preferable lynch over layabout. This much should be obvious. We need to lynch an angel, even if there are only two. If we do not lynch an angel today, I don't see how town can win. Why don't you see Layabout flipping Angel? Maybe because he wants the sage dead really badly (and remember, the angels are certain that I am actually the sage given the lack of counter-claim), and because he was twisted by the demons last night?
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Reads/Explanations: Blazinghand - 99% town, 1% demon. Claimed corrupted town. He is either town (very likely), or an exceptionally ballsy demon. Bluelightz - Wat. Just posted his list of reads, includes more town reads than the number of remaining townies, unless Syllo was somehow a demon and RoL was an angel. I want to believe he is town, but he makes it so hard to. Reading his filter makes my brain numb. I would not be particularly surprised with him flipping any alignment. Dirkzor - Seems scummy to me, I could see him flipping angel or demon. Grackaroni - Leaning town. 100% not a demon. Some chance of being an angel, but I have now read his past games and the main difference I see is only a bit of a drop in activity. Also, if you were scum, Palmar was not on your team, and he was acting fairly scummy and being attacked by several vets, would you defend him day 1? I know I wouldn't. However, he still remains a potential angel, although I do not think it is the most likely. Jackal58 - Might be an angel...? I can't shake the feeling that he might be an angel, but I don't have any particularly good explanation for it. layabout - Probably demon. He was twisted, but is not the corrupted townie. Also wants me dead like none other. Possibility of him being town if the demons managed to guess who I was investigating. Refallen - Probably town. Besides being more aggressive, which is in itself generally a town trait, and his play has been fairly consistent with my last game with him where he was town. Tyrran - Still isn't playing anything like he did when he was town in steamship. A number of his statements don't seem like a bullshitting scum player...but his play is still very different. I could see him flipping any alignment. Zephirdd - Hopefully town. While his actions have been odd, they don't match up with his scum play from steamship. His reactions to being accused by syllo of being scum-buddies with me seemed extremely similar to my reaction to being tied to Risk.
So, I am willing to take our chances on lynching Bluelightz, Dirkzor, Jackal, Tyrran, or Grackaroni, with a preference of not Grackaroni.
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On January 18 2012 03:12 layabout wrote: there are very unlikely scenarios in which all of the demons are dead. for instance, wiggles and syllogism could have been a demons killed by angels and RoL an angel whose kill was concealed. 0demons 2 angels ct gets own vote whilst it seems sensible to dismiss this possibility we should dismiss it actively rather than pretending it is not possible.
We should consider whether or not different possibilities should have an impact on our decision-making. I think that, that example should not affect out decision-making but i also think that treating things like that as impossible and then treating much more likely possibilities that would have a real impact on what we should do, is something that we cannot afford to do. No, there is a 0% chance of all demons being dead. I already explained that wiggles was 100% town-aligned.
On January 17 2012 09:12 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Oh yeah, and Wiggles is guaranteed to have been town-aligned. Angels wouldn't kill one of their own, and the twister and the concealer were alive during the day yesterday (concealer acted during the day, twister at night). I know it was already extremely likely he was town, but just thought that might be worth mentioning.
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