/in
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k2hd
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As for when I'll be active, I'll be online on and off for about 7-8 hours from now. I'll be available tomorrow at around this time, give or take 1 or 2 hours. I'm in Australia (GMT + 11 currently), while the other part of our hydra is in California, but I don't think she'll be posting much (or at all) because she got a really hectic schedule this upcoming week. I'll have enough time to stay active by myself though BassInSpace | ||
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Now FourFace, my partner recently had a change of schedule and it is unlikely that she will be able to post at all in the upcoming week, so I will be doing most, if not all of the posting. If she does post however, it will of course only be after we've had a discussion about our actions. Also, a dark archon is still a Protoss archon is it not? :p | ||
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I suppose I should clarify that all posts so far on the k2hd hydra account have been by me; BassInSpace. I forgot to sign each post off with my account name, but will do so in future posts. | ||
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As for chocolate and ghost, I must say I have my suspicions regarding them as well. I'm not going to quote too much because I think others have done enough of that already while I've been away. Ghost seems VERY insistent on lynching. He's even against using FOS and wants to straight out lynch anyone he considers suspicious, as some have already pointed out. Then, when FourFace places a vote on jekyl just to "pressure" them, ghost posts this: @fourface That's not how you apply pressure on someone to post. This is how you apply pressure on someone to post. It doesn't really say much about WHY FourFace is doing it wrong, and conveniently places another vote on jekyl. Then, FourFace presents himself as a better, and more possible target for a mislynch. Ghost accuses FourFace of scummy/crazy play, and it seems to me like he is out to get the easy mislynch again. Does he actually just think that FourFace is playing a very weird and seemingly nonsensical style? Maybe, but he has yet to unvote FourFace in the voting thread. Now for chocolate. I don't have as much to go on for chocolate aside from what's already been said, but I think it's interesting that he is voting for FourFace with ghost as well, perhaps hoping to start some sort of bandwagon? This part of his post: I'm going to vote for you for the time being because that was really weird. If you sufficiently explain yourself and start to make sense I will unvote you. Seems like a way of joining ghost in starting the bandwagon, while at the same time giving him the option of pulling out if the bandwagoning fails. I'm just not sure why you would actually put your vote into the voting thread at this stage, instead of just posting the thought and leaving it at that till FourFace actually DID post more so he could decide. To be fair to him though, he (seemingly) hasn't had the chance to read why posters such as alderaan and jekylandhyde don't think FourFace is scum yet. For now, I will remain suspicious of these 2 without voting yet, for reasons that will be explained below. I'm also very curious though to know why everyone is ignoring igabod. Up until now, his contributions have been these 2 posts: On February 27 2012 00:04 igabod wrote: I just finished reading the thread. I agree with lynching someone day one. I also think that the fake voting deadline could work. On February 27 2012 00:24 igabod wrote: I will be available most of the time on Saturday and Sunday. I won't have much time on Tuesdays. I have about 3 hours when I can post on Tuesday. All he has done is agree with what has been said so far (without even bothering to put it into his own words, or back his agreement up with his own logic), and since then we have heard nothing from him. Now I should say that this will likely be my last post from now until the voting deadline (the real one) because I have to head off to bed soon for class tomorrow, and will be in uni when the deadline is up. I have pretty much no breaks tomorrow either in between classes. Because of this, I will vote for a no lynch for today only. Since I will be away for so long, I'd rather not vote for a lynch on someone who posts a proper defense when they wake up, or if a better target presents themself and I'm not available to change my vote. Just to confirm, can I ACTUALLY vote for a no lynch, or does that only occur when there is no majority? I will actually probably come online tomorrow during a lecture just to check this post (and change my vote if I have to), wouldn't want to be modkilled for a stupid mistake like this Just fyi, If I cannot vote for a no lynch, I will be voting for igabod no matter what, because I won't have time to go through posts properly in a lecture to consider what everyone has to say. It seems like a safe enough option for now because I am sure I will not get a majority on him anyway at this stage, so this vote shouldn't have an effect on tomorrow's lynch. I'll be able to post more as I have Wednesday and Thursday off (GMT +11). ##vote: no lynch | ||
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Just to confirm, can I ACTUALLY vote for a no lynch, or does that only occur when there is no majority? I will actually probably come online tomorrow during a lecture just to check this post (and change my vote if I have to), wouldn't want to be modkilled for a stupid mistake like this That was meant to be green... I fail at forum posting. | ||
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I am also going to repeat again that the other part of this hydra account is unable to play at all because of some stuff that has come up, so she cannot post for me. All posts up until now have been by me; BassInSpace, and I will be continuing to post by myself for the rest of the game. Gumshoe, I know you asked me to change my vote from igabod, but as already stated above, I was not going to because I could not consider all the new posts that had been made. That 1 sentence post where I said I would change from voting no lynch (which I couldn't do) to igabod was made on my ipod in uni, where I had no time to check posts aside from the one post asking the hosts if it was possible to vote no lynch. Alderan, I want to ask you now, do you think I'm still suspicious for "stacking" my vote on igabod to potentially save chocolate? I see that you yourself changed your vote away from chocolate, so I'd like to hear what your case is against me now. I already stated why I voted igabod. I had suspicions regarding chocolate and ghost like everyone else (was leaning more towards ghost in fact), but did not want to vote for either one in case they posted some convincing arguments while I was gone, and still have my vote on one of them because I wasn't around to change it. I was the first to bring igabod up, and voted for him because I didn't want to affect the outcome of today's lynch as I figured that sure, he was lurking, but was that by itself enough to convince others to vote for him? Turns out he did almost get lynched, but hey, I missed out on a LOT while I was gone. Not that it matters now anyway. Hi to the new entrants btw Sloosh, I find your case against alderaan very interesting. And just to add to what zelblade has said, here's this post by alderan: + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2012 01:28 Alderan wrote: Obviously we need to hear more from everyone, but here is who I'm specifically looking forward to: - Igabod - Chocolate - Janaan (In that, I would like to hear who you want to vote for) - Ghost_403 - Steveling I still like Chocolate as the lynch candidate for today, but I'm going to hold out as I wait for a response. Also I have more reads on Ghost, but again, I'd rather wait for him to respond so as not to jump the gun with divulging information. A note on Steveling. Last game he played a very "I'm a noob town don't lynch me" game as stated in one of his first posts in the scum qt. He obviously can't do this again if he's scum, because he knows I'm town, and I'll call it out. After playing a game with him it seems like he is a person who would use a shtick as scum. Steveling I'm telling you now, if a lurker scum is your thing, I'll find you. He wanted to hear about what those 4 had to say, but janaan is exempt from explaining himself, he just has to tell him who he's voting for. He has now stated that janaan makes him suspicious (in alderan's post regarding those among igabod's voters who he found suspicious), so we will have to see how convincing a case he posts for janaan, or if he is going to post a weak case and let someone else tear it down because it is not concrete enough, thus absolving janaan of any guilt. I say all this because I have also started to get suspicious of janaan. However, I don't think I have enough yet to be any more than moderately suspicious of either at this point (would alderan really shove himself into the spotlight this much if he were mafia? It must be awfully hard to keep from any slips this way... But I'm new to mafia, so who knows). I would like to hear from both of them first before going further with this. I'd also just like to sleep on this too, I've spent hours looking at everyone's filters, having over 10 tabs open and trying to find what I want in each of those tabs. Also, I obviously want to see what the night brings along. I'd also like to read more from jekylandhyde, who hasn't really taken a firm stance on anyone. So far he's put what he called a "placeholder vote" on Chocolate, which he changed to another placeholder vote on DoYouHas. He didn't REALLY want to vote chocolate, he didn't REALLY want to vote DoYouHas, and he didn't want to vote igabod because replacements were coming in, so that he could pressure them. This is while he has had access to the thread more than me. It seems like he may be stalling if you ask me. I dislike the fact that so many decided to switch to igabod and eventually a no-lynch. I agree with sloosh that igabod can be considered the "easy way out", and I find it surprising that you guys actually think that he has a higher chance of flipping scum as opposed to choclate or ghost. He has posted nothing, and I dont see how you guys see that he is auto-scum. It is much more probable that he had some IRL issues or lost interest in the game, which says zlich about his alignment. zelblade, I voted igabod with plenty of time to go before the deadline, so he still had a chance to post after I voted. | ||
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Again, all posts on k2hd account by BassInSpace. | ||
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Yeah gumshoe says he'll take responsibility... Sorry for the typo. | ||
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Did unvote ghost >_< Mustafa not shown up, I was leaning ghost so that I could see if sloosh was suspicious, but chocolate seemed like he was the only one who has going to get lynched and I hate no lynches(unless it is analytically the best move) as I said before there is no reason a healthy town should ever no lynch. I stand by that. Well not only did your unvote not show up, I also don't see where you placed your actual vote. It is still under ghost in the voting thread. So I take it you're saying you meant to vote for chocolate? | ||
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You argue that I did not bring up anything new in my post, when I clearly bring JekyllAndHyde up in this part of my post, and want to hear more from them because I suspect they are just stalling the town. I'd also like to read more from jekylandhyde, who hasn't really taken a firm stance on anyone. So far he's put what he called a "placeholder vote" on Chocolate, which he changed to another placeholder vote on DoYouHas. He didn't REALLY want to vote chocolate, he didn't REALLY want to vote DoYouHas, and he didn't want to vote igabod because replacements were coming in, so that he could pressure them. This is while he has had access to the thread more than me. It seems like he may be stalling if you ask me. Until they post their reads on everyone like they have said they are going to, I will remain suspicious of them. As for voting for igabod, I wasn't saying I did anything special. I was just reminding people that I was the first to vote him, and not simply jumping on a bandwagon to save chocolate; who is still potential scum. I was not trying to make my actions look any more meaningful than that. I already stated my reasons for voting igabod, so I will not repeat them here. You accuse me of taking a middle of the road stance, after I have already explained why I voted igabod. Also, why are you singling me out for wanting to vote for a no lynch? I stated from the very beginning that I did not think no lynches were a bad thing if I did not think there was enough information (which, at the time I was available to post, was the case). JekyllAndHyde has essentially done the same thing by voting for DoYouHas. You also wonder why I suspected ghost for reasons everyone had cleared him for. However, the heat was still on ghost to defend at the time I made that post. He hadn't addressed all the FOS claims against him yet, and as such, wasn't "cleared" yet. I did say I wouldn't be available for an extended amount of time after that post of mine. Now for this: Opening sentence of your second meaningful post is "Now for those who are starting to suspect me." What a bizzarre way to start a post, I've never heard a towny be worried about being "suspected" Why on earth does that make you suspect me more? I don't see how that shows that I am "worried" about being suspected. There were a few who were starting to get suspicious of me, and I was addressing them, simple as that. How is this bizarre? This is your weakest point on me. I will admit, however, that you reasoning for exempting janaan makes sense. Night is coming very soon, and I will wait until then to post the rest of my thoughts. | ||
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Now for this: Opening sentence of your second meaningful post is "Now for those who are starting to suspect me." What a bizzarre way to start a post, I've never heard a towny be worried about being "suspected" Why on earth does that make you suspect me more? I don't see how that shows that I am "worried" about being suspected. There were a few who were starting to get suspicious of me, and I was addressing them, simple as that. How is this bizarre? This is your weakest point on me. Forgot to add that this makes you seem like you are grabbing at straws, while trying to find another lynch target. BassInSpace | ||
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Sorry, formatting mistake. Now for this: + Show Spoiler + Opening sentence of your second meaningful post is "Now for those who are starting to suspect me." What a bizzarre way to start a post, I've never heard a towny be worried about being "suspected" Why on earth does that make you suspect me more? I don't see how that shows that I am "worried" about being suspected. There were a few who were starting to get suspicious of me, and I was addressing them, simple as that. How is this bizarre? This is your weakest point on me. | ||
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Sniped. | ||
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I'm not claiming blue ffs We misunderstood the rules, calm down. | ||
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Summary: Alderan has shown a great bias against Chocolate. He tries to focus people on him (such as Janaan when he posted about ghost) but is perfectly willing to drop it when DYH comes in to call out what is going on. Even so he picks it back up and tries to get people to look at it, and then tries to get something on Steveling started on the sole basis that he is involved with Chocolate. Conclusion: It could be a case of serious tunneling (which I doubt as he seemingly listened to DYH), but I find it more likely that he is casting confusion amongst town by setting up multiple suspects without good reason or case. It does seem, as you say, that alderan is focusing hard on chocolate, but is he really trying to set up multiple targets? From what I can tell, at the point you made that post, he was only setting up chocolate and steveling to be scrutinised, and dropped his case against ghost. I think it's becoming more and more likely that chocolate is town, so if alderan were scum, why waste his vote on steveling, who he knew was not going to attract enough votes for a lynch? And nttea, you haven't contributed to the thread yet and you are already advocating a default alderan lynch if there is no new info? It is only the start of day 2, there is plenty of time for more info to come out. | ||
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He's had a LOT of pressure put on him due to his sub-par posting on day 1, and had to defend himself left, right and centre for the rest of day 1. He's spent most of his time on defensive posts, and perhaps hasn't been able to focus on gathering much of his own evidence on other players. He is very aggressive in trying to force lurkers to post more by voting, but as was mentioned by DYH, this could just have been a poorly thought out way of fostering discussion. I understand that it may have been an easy way to avoid generating original content/cases of his own, but again, this is probably just the play style of a townie who is unsure of what to do, or who would rather not stick his head out too much. I did not check up on everyone's previous games, but from what I gather from what others have said, chocolate was mafia in his last game, had to tone down his posting because it was too aggressive, and hasn't played town before (unless he's had another game that I don't know about). There is also this post by chocolate: On February 28 2012 11:26 Chocolate wrote: You do realize that is basically a vote swing, which you state is bad? Stand by your words. If I get lynched we will get good info on alderan, gum, dyh, sloosh, Phagga, and night. Why would he argue so confidently against a vote swing AWAY from him? Chocolate is also one of the first to start getting suspicious of alderan. After day 1, some of the heat was finally lifted off of him and focused on alderan by others. Following this, we have sloosh post a large case against alderan, followed by JekylAndHyde's case, and alderan is under more and more pressure. Instead of continuing his case against alderan, chocolate decides to launch a case against night fury of all people, who no one had posted any suspicions against yet. If he were mafia, why would he not join others in pressuring alderan (or the case that is piling up against gumshoe), and go for a target who would be harder to mislynch? I sincerely believe chocolate is town, and that some of those pressuring him hard are looking scummy to me. Those who voted chocolate on day 1: phagga, sloosh, NightFury, ghost I currently do not have as much info as I'd like on NightFury to say much about him. Sloosh's actions seem pro-town to me so far, and though he has not posted as much as others, his posts have generally been full of content. Now for the remaining two: Phagga has been trying very hard for a chocolate lynch the whole game. He takes a moment to call gumshoe out on why he didn't change his vote from ghost, and why he felt the need to "take responsibility" for voting chocolate if he flipped green, and then goes straight back to attacking chocolate. He is either getting tunnel vision with chocolate, or trying to get the mislynch on him. Have a look at this post. He accuses chocolate of relying on the arguments of others, and voting lurkers (a policy which he did state at the start), but ignores the fact that it is chocolate who first brought up a case against alderan (albeit a rather lackluster one) and states emphatically that he will vote chocolate again on day 2, presumably for not coming up with original cases/evidence, when there was still 48 irl hours for chocolate to contribute on day 2 (day 1 had not even ended yet). This early vote behaviour was the same thing we called nttea out for when he wanted a default alderan lynch. Then we have ghost. His last few posts have all been aimed at chocolate. here they are Ghost and phagga engage in banter that seems like bullying chocolate to me in the first post, and the second post is unnecessary, because although chocolate did not do anything like make a new case, it was still a valid point. Nttea should not be posting like that, and if he is as clueless as he says he is, chocolate was only helping him. The way he analyses the chocolate quotes in the third post is very condescending in tone. He could have done so without putting chocolate down, as others in the thread have done. I also do not trust this post made by ghost: On February 28 2012 11:03 ghost_403 wrote: You see, this is how I see it. We could vote to lynch Igabod. That's not even really a bad idea. He's been lurking hardcore. Kinda scummy if you ask me. And I don't like scummy. However, his flip doesn't tell us anything. Maybe, we'll get lucky and lynch a scum. Odds are about, what, 28%? You can do worse than that. Other option: You lynch either me or chocolate. I think it's pretty well established, one of the two of us is scum. If whoever gets lynched flips red, awesome! Lynched a scum! If not, guess who the first person on the chopping block is tomorrow. The guy who wasn't lynched. Either way, going into day 3, the town is down one scum. Trying to gain the trust of the town by encouraging a chocolate or ghost lynch on day 1. If chocolate flipped green, suspicion may still have fallen off of ghost because mafia would presumably not make a post like this. I realise that this point is a bit WIFOM (I think I'm using the term correctly?). Basically, it seems to me that phagga and ghost are actively trying to discredit chocolate after his already shaky start, and possibly also get the mislynch on him. | ||
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However, I don't think I have enough yet to be any more than moderately suspicious of either at this point (would alderan really shove himself into the spotlight this much if he were mafia? It must be awfully hard to keep from any slips this way... But I'm new to mafia, so who knows). So I was still very unsure about alderan. As for me suddenly dropping my case against alderan, it's just that ghost and phagga have stood out to me more now, after going through the most recent posts. I soft defended alderan because if there is going to be a case against him, I wanted those issues which I brought up to be dealt with first, so that I could be more open to an alderan case. My speculation on the mafia's intent on the hit and its impact on alderan is, after reading what others think, WIFOM and I will not harp on it any longer. Going through the most recent posts, however, and coming to my chocolate conclusions, phagga and ghost stood out to me more. As for alderan not responding to me... Well, if you go through my posts, you'll notice that it seems to be a trend that nobody really responds to me in any real meaningful way. In this regard I feel the same as nightfury. This part is addressed to DYH as well. As I stated, my time zone and university timetable make it hard for me to contribute while everyone is around. When I get home, there is already a lot of content and cases for me to go through. When I'm home I do not actively jump in to post much because a lot of what I may have wanted to say has already been said. If I rehash them, I am accused of recycling other's arguments and being poor town (in fact alderan already pointed this out) or generating contentless posts for a pro mafia cause. Because of this, I prefer to take my time in posting, going through posts and filters looking for original evidence or new cases to make that haven't already been mentioned, which takes me awhile, as I am away for extended periods of time while discussion is occurring. And, like nightfury, this is my very first TL and forum mafia game. I do not have a good grasp of generating good discussion, and quite frankly the ability of some of you in the thread to absorb so much information so quickly and post your thoughts makes me feel like I want to hold off on my own posting so that I can REALLY think about, and make my own good points, before presenting them to you. That being said, it looks like I was not successful in making meaningful posts in your eyes. I apologise for not posting as much as others in the thread (even after taking time zone into consideration), but I will continue posting like this for the rest of the game and even others, until I get better at it. I had actually been wondering when more people would start calling me out for my posting habits so far. | ||
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Others' arguments instead of other's arguments. Sorry, wrongly placed apostrophes bug me. | ||
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##Vote: ghost_403 | ||
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I suppose I should mention that i have class all day tomorrow (morning excluded), but I have a little time to change my vote and post a few thoughts if a better target comes up/someone can convince me not to vote ghost in the morning when I'm up and on the computer (about 11 hours from now). However, any substantial posts will probably be made around the same time as my last few posts. | ||
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I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game. Perhaps it is enough that chocolate is discredited, and you know you don't have the numbers to mislynch him without mafia stacking on him. At this stage, there is a low chance of chocolate actually being lynched and thus, flipping green, since there are multiple cases out on alderan, gumshoe and myself. It is also a convenient way of wasting a vote and not committing to anyone else, but as you say, I will wait to see what you have to say about others when you're done with their filters. I will try my best to see what you have to say in the morning before class. This is why I am placing a preliminary vote on ghost first. | ||
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I'm off for the night, apologies for the spam on this page. | ||
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Post by k2hd I really like the fact that in this post, you bring up the fact that Chocolate made this post, saying that lynching him would give the town info, then bringing up this post, where I say the same thing, only earlier. For some reason, it's good enough to lynch me, but not him. I had already said after phagga's post, that you had less pressure on you than chocolate, so it was safer for you to make such a claim when the chance of you being lynched was lower. As for this: K2hd has still not provided anything of value, under the guise of being a "noob town". Quite frankly I'm sick of responses like this. WE'RE ALL NOOBS.... hence the title of this game. Read filters and make cases. I say from this point forward we stop accepting responses like this. His vote is currently on Ghost_403. His reasons: - He thinks Chocolate is town. - Ghost voted for Chocolate. - Ghost made a slightly suspicious post (a point that I actually brought up initially) - Therefore Ghost is scum. What? It doesn't work like that. ##vote K2hd I'd rather you not devalue my post like this. I voted for ghost because of his day 1 posting, AND his recent interactions with phagga concerning ghost. You may argue that what I said about day 1 was already covered, but not day 2 posts. I have read filters, and my vote stays on ghost. I'm willing to take the chance that gumshoe flips red and I look even more suspicious than I already do, but I do not think he is scum. Phagga + Show Spoiler + On March 02 2012 01:44 phagga wrote: Generally: I don't care if this is anyones first game on TL Mafia. This is a newbie game, noone has a lot of experience with TL Mafia. This game is here to learn, so please stop making excuses like that. I have already skipped several paragraphs who start with that, and I will continue to skip them in the future. DoYouHas: No, I don't agree. You accused him of not generating content. He agrees, but then only writes an excuse, and you are already giving him a free pass. Now there is no more pressure on him to generate real content, which is what would have given us more information on him. You left him of the hook way to early. Instead, I would have liked to see you call him out on his confession of not generating content, and pressure him more at least until he starts generating content. I noticed several times that people don't want to pressure someone anymore after the target went from scummy to towny. Why not? If you already started, pressure some more. Townies don't need to be afraid to get pressured. After all, they have no reason to lie, and if they write what they think and observe, than they have nothing to fear. And it will generate more information which will enable more people to judge better if someone is town or not. But if you let Nightfury of the hook like that, and nightfury gets lynched anyway and flips red, I will immediatly get suspicious about your reluctance to pressure him after making a case on him. - Chocolate - Gumshoe - Alderan k2hd: + Show Spoiler + On March 01 2012 22:16 k2hd wrote: Perhaps it is enough that chocolate is discredited, and you know you don't have the numbers to mislynch him without mafia stacking on him. At this stage, there is a low chance of chocolate actually being lynched and thus, flipping green, since there are multiple cases out on alderan, gumshoe and myself. It is also a convenient way of wasting a vote and not committing to anyone else, but as you say, I will wait to see what you have to say about others when you're done with their filters. I will try my best to see what you have to say in the morning before class. This is why I am placing a preliminary vote on ghost first. This is just not true. On the first day, my vote was on Chocolate the whole day. After this vote + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2012 07:36 NightFury wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Chocolate + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2012 08:36 phagga wrote: So, folks, I will be offline for the night in about 20 minutes. So far my vote stays on Chocolate. I have read a few interesting things about others (specially steveling), but so far nothing could convince me to switch my vote to another person. I still think Chocolate is our best lynch. On February 28 2012 10:00 phagga wrote: I'm off to bed now. My vote stays on chocolate. That was 2 hours before the deadline. There was still the possibility that he would get lynched. 40 minutes before the deadline JekyllAndHyde unvoted Chocolate. Chocolate: + Show Spoiler + On March 01 2012 20:58 phagga wrote: To k2hd: + Show Spoiler + On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote: I believe that chocolate is town. He's had a LOT of pressure put on him due to his sub-par posting on day 1, and had to defend himself left, right and centre for the rest of day 1. He's spent most of his time on defensive posts, and perhaps hasn't been able to focus on gathering much of his own evidence on other players. He is very aggressive in trying to force lurkers to post more by voting, but as was mentioned by DYH, this could just have been a poorly thought out way of fostering discussion. I understand that it may have been an easy way to avoid generating original content/cases of his own, but again, this is probably just the play style of a townie who is unsure of what to do, or who would rather not stick his head out too much. I did not check up on everyone's previous games, but from what I gather from what others have said, chocolate was mafia in his last game, had to tone down his posting because it was too aggressive, and hasn't played town before (unless he's had another game that I don't know about). There is also this post by chocolate: Why would he argue so confidently against a vote swing AWAY from him?1 Chocolate is also one of the first to start getting suspicious of alderan. After day 1, some of the heat was finally lifted off of him and focused on alderan by others. Following this, we have sloosh post a large case against alderan, followed by JekylAndHyde's case, and alderan is under more and more pressure. Instead of continuing his case against alderan, chocolate decides to launch a case against night fury of all people, who no one had posted any suspicions against yet. If he were mafia, why would he not join others in pressuring alderan (or the case that is piling up against gumshoe), and go for a target who would be harder to mislynch? I sincerely believe chocolate is town, and that some of those pressuring him hard are looking scummy to me. Those who voted chocolate on day 1: phagga, sloosh, NightFury, ghost I currently do not have as much info as I'd like on NightFury to say much about him. Sloosh's actions seem pro-town to me so far, and though he has not posted as much as others, his posts have generally been full of content. Now for the remaining two: Phagga has been trying very hard for a chocolate lynch the whole game.2 He takes a moment to call gumshoe out on why he didn't change his vote from ghost, and why he felt the need to "take responsibility" for voting chocolate if he flipped green, and then goes straight back to attacking chocolate. He is either getting tunnel vision with chocolate3, or trying to get the mislynch on him. Have a look at this post. He accuses chocolate of relying on the arguments of others, and voting lurkers (a policy which he did state at the start), but ignores the fact that it is chocolate who first brought up a case against alderan (albeit a rather lackluster one) and states emphatically that he will vote chocolate again on day 2, presumably for not coming up with original cases/evidence, when there was still 48 irl hours for chocolate to contribute on day 2 (day 1 had not even ended yet). This early vote behaviour was the same thing we called nttea out for when he wanted a default alderan lynch. Then we have ghost. His last few posts have all been aimed at chocolate. here they are Ghost and phagga engage in banter that seems like bullying chocolate to me in the first post, and the second post is unnecessary, because although chocolate did not do anything like make a new case, it was still a valid point. Nttea should not be posting like that, and if he is as clueless as he says he is, chocolate was only helping him. The way he analyses the chocolate quotes in the third post is very condescending in tone. He could have done so without putting chocolate down, as others in the thread have done. 1bI also do not trust this post made by ghost: Trying to gain the trust of the town by encouraging a chocolate or ghost lynch on day 1. If chocolate flipped green, suspicion may still have fallen off of ghost because mafia would presumably not make a post like this. I realise that this point is a bit WIFOM (I think I'm using the term correctly?). Basically, it seems to me that phagga and ghost are actively trying to discredit chocolate after his already shaky start, and possibly also get the mislynch on him. 1 You are aware that later in your post at 1b you quote ghost_403 who wrote against a vote switch away from him and chocolate, and say that that post is a reason you don't trust ghost_403? This is contradictory. 2 The question you should ask yourself here is: Is this something a townie would do? And if so, is it also something scum would do? I doubt scum would want to stay in the spotlight like that. Also, If you are town, and you feel strongly about someone being scum, what are you gonna do? - Try to push a lynch on that person even if people will not listen to you - let the person of the hook because noone listens to you, and pick another target I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game. Nothing Chocolate said so far convinced me that he is not scum. That's why I still want him lynched. 3 I am aware that I am prone to tunneling Chocolate, and I am currently reading through several filters (again) to give an update on who else I think is fishy. I disagree. Scum does not want to be in the spotlight. People in the spotlight get analyzed more, and scum has to play a role / lie to look townie, so the chance that people will reveal their true role is higher. You will not often find scum that is going to play aggresively, and most of the time they won't get far with it because they have to hide too much. I think there's some confusion here, I'm talking about the vote count and low chance of mislynching chocolate on day 2, and how hard you were STILL pushing chocolate up until now, with the change to gumshoe. Notice I typed in the present tense in that post. | ||
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Now for your questions Sloosh. I am still suspicious of alderan, but am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his most recent spate of inactivity (he says has a party). I also have some questions for him regarding why he was pushing my lynch so much harder than gumshoe's. Alderan, after gumshoe's lynch, you made these 2 posts: post 1 post 2 If gumshoe appeared SO scummy to you, why did you let your vote stay on me? I think we are all in agreement that a no lynch at this stage of the game is bad, and leaving your vote on me risked exactly that. I know you suspect me, but the 2 linked posts show that you supposedly felt that gumshoe was "so scummy". That, combined with the fact that the majority of the players were convinced he was scum would make gumshoe the better option to place your own vote on. Speaking of DoYouHas, I had him pegged as town earlier, and still do. He makes constructive posts to foster discussion among town, and when he pushes somebody, he has plenty of reasoning to back it up. He believes that chocolate is town, as I do, and was against a gumshoe lynch. It's also difficult to really link him in with any potential mafia buddies. What I mean by this is that he has closely scrutinised posts by multiple players, and does not seem to be more or less friendly to any player in the game/agreeing with anyone prematurely. Phagga I'm now not as sure about as before. I gave him time to address my claims, and he did so rather well, throwing doubt onto my case. I am willing to let it go for now, but will be keeping an eye out for any other phagga activity that sticks out to me. Ghost is still on my radar, however. He still has not really addressed my original case against him, aside from this post: + Show Spoiler + On March 02 2012 07:35 ghost_403 wrote: Two posts that I want to quickly address before I go any further: Post by DoYouHas You were wondering what I thought of your case? Meh. Your argument that he's busy is pretty week. Point 2 is meta. Point 3 is something that I argued for in Day 1. Nailed point 4. Point 5 is point 1 again. It's a weak case, but I like content. Post by k2hd I really like the fact that in this post, you bring up the fact that Chocolate made this post, saying that lynching him would give the town info, then bringing up this post, where I say the same thing, only earlier. For some reason, it's good enough to lynch me, but not him. Now onto reading some filters! Whoo! I had actually addressed that point (which phagga made originally) with this point + Show Spoiler + On March 01 2012 21:50 k2hd wrote: I did actually think about that after making my post phagga, but decided to wait for someone to point it out so as not to spam. I would argue that it was safer for ghost to make a post like that because there was more pressure on chocolate, than on him, so there was a lower chance of people calling ghost's bluff. I will be confirming my vote roughly 10-12 hours from now. I would like to read what others think when they wake up, but currently I am more inclined to vote for ghost than for you. And so, tentatively: ##Vote: ghost_403 Which ghost either ignored or didn't see, and I made the same point again here: + Show Spoiler + Post by k2hd I really like the fact that in this post, you bring up the fact that Chocolate made this post, saying that lynching him would give the town info, then bringing up this post, where I say the same thing, only earlier. For some reason, it's good enough to lynch me, but not him. I had already said after phagga's post, that you had less pressure on you than chocolate, so it was safer for you to make such a claim when the chance of you being lynched was lower. He has since made several posts since then, and has not addressed these concerns of mine. Now for my thoughts on gumshoe's lynch. The original reason I didn't want him lynched was because the reason he wanted to leave was boredom. This seemed to clinch his lynch in many people's eyes. If he was mafia though, why would he say this? Mafia have been doing well in this game, creating an uncertain town atmosphere with cases flying everywhere. If he was mafia, he would have been winning, and town are playing into their hands (hopefully we can change this from now on obviously). Why would he ever say that he was bored if he was mafia, and want to leave, unless he was a legitimately bored townie? This is all just speculative of course, but I suppose it was just a feeling. | ||
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I see that you have now posted nttea. Everyone's going to want to know what you have to say, and what your reads are on day 3. I'm still favouring a lynch on you right now. | ||
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On March 01 2012 05:49 TestSubject893 wrote: I'm back from class, but I've got a lot of work to get done tonight, so I don't know how active I'll be able to be. Hopefully this shouldn't matter as we have the entirety of the day tomorrow to decide who to lynch. With that said, after having the day to think, I've concluded gumshoe's badgering of zelblade was terribly suspicious and until I'm convinced that someone else is scummier than that, you can pencil me in as voting for a gumshoe lynch. Oh, and I should mention that I think his whole "I'm bored" thing is not really worth worrying about. It could be that he's a mafia who realizes he's dug himself in a hole and doesn't want to play it out, or that he's just a townie who is legitimately bored. We have no way of knowing, so it does not effect my opinion of his alignment. A number other first time players in this game (including myself) have already been called out for playing like this earlier, and have attempted to contribute more. I think it is your turn to do so now. Ghost, I have another question for you. You claim in this post here: + Show Spoiler + On March 01 2012 07:44 ghost_403 wrote: Let's take but a moment to examine our dear friend Chocolate. My problem with him, in addition to the things that I brought up on Day 1, is that he brings nothing new to the game. He is the perfect example of a scummy lurker. His goal is to post enough in the thread to make himself look townie while providing nothing of value. Let's take a look at a couple of the posts that he's made. (Fun fact: these are in fact ALL of his posts since Night 1.) Can't figure out who he's talking to in this post. He basically says here that he doesn't like the people that voted to lynch him. Responds to me with a contentless post. Useless. TL;DR - I agree with Alderan, begin wishy-washy is bad, Steveling was a better lynch than Igabod (which Alderan already stated here). Next post, he defends himself from Phagga. Posts some thoughts, nothing profound. We have to note here that the only reason he did this was that he was provoked. Next three posts say nothing. Responds to pressure, nothing new. My favorite post. Yells at nttea for posting without saying anything. LOL. Tells us that the guy who thought about getting modkilled is kinda fishy. Profound thought here. Take a minute to go back and read through his filter. All of his posts thus far have been either, A) agreeing with other players, B) finding lurkers scummy, or C) defending himself. Chocolate has not brought anything new to this thread, and is therefore, a scummy lurker. That chocolate's posts consist of unoriginal content (he has since posted some original content), agreeing with others and defending himself. You take the time to make that large post, but don't bother taking the time to post even 1 or 2 points about testsubject, who has skated by (even after taking into account his shorter time here) even more than chocolate? Your only post addressing testsubject is this one: On March 02 2012 08:10 ghost_403 wrote: To clarify, nttea hasn't posted anything in two days. test has posted some. I don't think he's lurking, but I haven't looked too hard at him (yet). Is it going to end up something like this instead? On March 01 2012 07:44 ghost_403 wrote: Lest I be accused of tunneling, next one's for Alderan. On March 01 2012 08:25 ghost_403 wrote: Nevermind, I don't have enough to post on Alderan at the moment. My bad! After my fourth reading, it seems that you are most consistent than I previously believed. | ||
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Despite the pressure on him, I am still not totally convinced that alderan is mafia. He stuck his neck out on day 1 with his case against chocolate (this is I believe the first case made in the whole game), and I don't see why mafia would do this. He drove a lot of discussion on day 1, and I don't see why mafia would want to do this, rather than letting discussion stagnate or focus on the wrong things (we spent a LOT of time debating the merits of a soft deadline). He was bringing the spotlight onto himself, increasing the chance that his posting would be scrutinised more closely (which happened). The above paragraph alone isn't enough, but his voting pattern also suggests town to me. He voted steve day 1 and me for day 2. He did not want a chocolate lynch (who I still believe is town from my previous post), or an igabod/nttea lynch, who has since flipped blue. I obviously know I am town (still unsure about testsubject), but alderan does not. He could've helped in getting a lynch on an easy target in igabod/nttea (at the time there was a real chance of igabod being lynched), but chose steve instead. On day 2 he votes for me and keeps his vote on me when there was still the danger of a no lynch. I hope he can explain his absence when he gets back. As for DoYouHas, I now find it VERY suspicious that after making these 2 posts (also used in sloosh's case): post 1 post 2 He still has not responded to this post (in regards to the nightfury issue): phagga's post The only post he makes addressing phagga's post is this one: + Show Spoiler + On March 02 2012 02:45 DoYouHas wrote: This is wrong. It is equally as possible that mafia would tunnel someone that hard. Tunneling someone into a lynch, on a green flip, makes it very hard for the town to determine whether it was just bad town play or scummy play. It is an easy way for a scum to get into and out of the spotlight without offering anything more than a null read on them. It also lowers the town's expectations for them for the rest of the game. Similarly, being willing to back off a case is just as often a trait of a townie who has changed their mind as it is a scum who wants a bandwagon. WIFOM my friend, WIFOM. I also find myself oddly comfortable with either a k2hd, gumshoe, or Alderan lynch. I think they all have good reasons to be lynched, but I will wait a little longer to see what people think before I make my preference clear. No mention of why he let nightfury off so easily. + Show Spoiler + On March 03 2012 04:10 DoYouHas wrote: No I didn't think k2hd was a better choice solely based on comparison to gumshoe. He was someone that I found suspicious when I was making my case against NightFury because he met many of the scum standards I was using to accuse NightFury. I do think he is a good suspect for tomorrow. Or why I do not get the same treatment as nightfury. He left for his trip AFTER phagga made his post, and has ignored the nightfury issue. As for sloosh, I am on the fence, but leaning town. I am ready to re-evaluate after today's lynch, if alderan or DoYouHas are lynched and flip green. Btw, chocolate, can you not post like that (your phagga case). It was extremely hard to read. Still believe chocolate is town because I doubt mafia team would let him make cases like that... | ||
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Just so you all know, I'm delaying my vote on DoYouHas to before I go to bed at the latest because I will most probably be unable to change my vote before the deadline due to being out all day tomorrow (class and meeting recruiters, oh boy). | ||
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##Vote: DoYouHas I will still be around for a few more hours though. | ||
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Alderan did not end up posting why he thinks sloosh is godfather, so I hope nobody jumps to that conclusion just because he flipped green. It is alarming that people are willing to go after sloosh so quickly just for leading the mislynch. I am now more inclined to have a closer look at those who sheeped on to the alderan lynch (not including DoYouHas who had to save himself), and are now turning around and voting/accusing sloosh of being mafia. Note, of course, that I am now willing to take another look at sloosh, as I said in my previous post if there was a mislynch, but people need to be wary of the above points before they go in guns blazing at sloosh. JekyllAndHyde, I see you posted a case against me (haven't had time to go through it), but are you still happy to go ahead and get my response after the result of the lynch? Or do you want to rethink things. I would still be happy to respond to it tomorrow when I have time. Chocolate, if you believe mafia are controlling town, you should post more to wrest control AWAY from them. | ||
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Chocolate, if you believe mafia are controlling town, you should post more to wrest control AWAY from them, not making an active decision to post less. | ||
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When I flip town you can almost assuredly say that DYH is town. There are a couple reasons, but the biggest one is that on N1 DYH basically berated me for buddying up to him. This is not something that scum does, they want the town to befriend them, so they can carry votes and look less suspicious. DYH calling me out on buddying him that early in the game would have been a terrible move as scum, and DYH is better than that. I do also believe that sloosh has been actively trying to discredit DoYouHas ever since he came back. When alderan went MIA due to his RL issues and DoYouHas left on his trip, sloosh's posting became more active. He was effectively able to take over town discussion, and now that DoYouHas is back, sloosh aims to discredit him so that mafia have complete control over town. The authoritative and generally stronger posters in alderan and zelblade are now gone, leaving DoYouHas. Sloosh is trying to get the rest of the town players to stop listening to him, leaving him unopposed. For those who sheeped alderan, I really hope you don't take sloosh's posting as fact. I would also like to bring attention to this post by sloosh: + Show Spoiler + On March 02 2012 03:03 slOosh wrote: Its a really big jump to say that my general agreement of Hyde's case on you is intentionally misleading the town to cast suspicion on you. I agree with the points and lean mafia on you - how is openly expressing my stance misleading? And no I'm not discrediting your name in the second quote. Read the whole post in context. We are dangerously close to the lynch deadline with votes spread among multiple people, and I'm emphasizing the need to rally and make a decision. The bolded part is because I think some people (especially the newer ones) are timid and want to hear all the voices and cases out in the open and discussed, but I'm being realistic and pointing out that time is not a luxury. It's not a blatant cut down and I think you are starting to take everything I say about you personally. Please look objectively. Please read that second paragraph everyone. We need consensus or we will be driven to no lynch again. This cannot be. He had an issue with alderan having more than one case up at a time (and clearly does not want a no lynch either) , because "we need consensus or we will be driven to no lynch again". But what did he just do on day 3? Bring up 2 extensive cases against DoYouHas and alderan at the same time. He then berates nightfury, chocolate, testsubject and DoYouHas for voting the way they did to avoid a no lynch. Sloosh could very well have avoided this situation if he'd just posted the case against his strongest scum read first (DoYouHas), and left alderan's case for later. Note that both cases are brought up when both players are conveniently unable to defend themselves until very close to the deadline. Also, the only other player who is attacked by sloosh is chocolate. Note that both phagga and ghost are back on chocolate's case as well. This is not the first time all 3 of them have attacked chocolate at around the same time. I do think there is something in this post of chocolate's: On March 06 2012 08:27 Chocolate wrote: Also guys, don't think me still existing is a coincidence. Now that we are so close to getting the mafia they are reverting to someone they had a strong case against earlier, but couldn't quite get the job done, to distract you all. Sloosh which 4 people do you most think are scum? I presume DYH and I top the list. To phagga and ghost: It's been twice now that you've chosen a townie lynch over a chocolate lynch, who you have both been critical of all game. You both seemed to let go of your chocolate case and jump on gumshoe and alderan a little too easily. Again, I am against a chocolate lynch. I have said why more than once already. You were also the first 2 (aside from sloosh himself) to place your votes on alderan for day 3 lynch. This put the remaining players who had not cast a vote in a difficult position. There was already a lot of suspicion cast on alderan by the mafia team prior to this. Had they still voted for someone else and brought the possibility of a no lynch into reality, I suspect they would have been berated ANYWAY for flip flopping (all 4 of those players had been suspicious of alderan at some stage in the game). Either way, sloosh comes out looking pro town. JekylAndHyde, I await your decision on your case regarding me, if you still want to go ahead with it. My mafia list for now: Sloosh ghost phagga I want a sloosh lynch. ##Vote: sl0osh | ||
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I do not like that post at all. First, JekylAndHyde posted a case against me within your 26 hour timeline here: post 1 He is not one of those who blindly bandwagoned against alderan, he had posted against him here: post 2 and here: post 3 So don't say that JeklyAndHyde conveniently disappeared only to appear to sheep alderan. Now for this part of your post: + Show Spoiler + Also note that none of these persons had posted any info after the start of D3 on who they were going to vote for before they disappeared. So these three and Nightfury actually managed to miss the whole day's discussion about the vote and come in less than 3 hours before the deadline. Nightfury, Testsubject, DYH and Chocolate then vote for Alderan (although Choc and DYH think he's town and NF only seems to vote to prevent a nolynch) and THEN accuse everybody who voted for Alderan early to be scum. I have already talked about JeklyAndHyde. When did nightfury and testsubject accuse anyone who voted for alderan early? Testsubject has not even posted since alderan's lynch. The same goes for nightfury. This leaves chocolate, who you have had a bias against for the longest time now. Your post is a desperate attempt to push attention onto inactive posters and away from you, sloosh and ghost. | ||
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Just to be clear, the above post is in reference to thist post by phagga | ||
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Read things in context k2hd. I still think you are a townie (albeit a mislead one) which is why I bother to improve your reasoning and logic. My posting became more active. But so did zelblade's. How can you apply the "activity" logic on me but not zelblade? I didn't take over town discussion - I was one of the few who actually posted anything in this desert of a thread town. Really look at where your reads are coming from - because as I see it you are just sheeping DYH and Chocolate. I am looking at my reads, and am confident that you are scum. I am not merely sheeping DoYouHas and Chocolate. And really, you have to start reading for yourself man. I believe that you are now not only actively discrediting DoYouHas, you are also trying to make me doubt myself as much as possible. It is approaching the end game, and I am now confident in my reads. My vote stays on you. As for nightfury, test and JekylAndHyde, hope to hear from you soon and tell us where you stand. | ||
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Thanks dreamflower and qatol | ||
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I was not scum, I was DT. My checks were on chocolate, alderan and sloosh. This is why I was defending chocolate for so long, but he wasn't exactly making it easy to defend him... Should apologise to alderan too for not having the time to muster up a proper defense despite the MIA issues. | ||
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I actually meant to point out to DoYouHas that I had posted something similar before you, just in a more abbreviated form when alderan grew suspicious of me, but I forgot to do it | ||
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On March 08 2012 12:22 DoYouHas wrote: I don't quite comprehend you not claiming k2hd. You had a scumcheck on slOosh and a towncheck on Chocolate. You would have single handedly line every town up behind slOosh with your claim. This was a combination of me taking a risk that I would have time to check up on the thread before deadline and claim and me believing that phagga and ghost were scum. When I saw that others had already posted a sloosh vote, I decided to leave the claim for next day. I pretty much agreed with your list near the end of it and was not expecting my town reads to ninja vote. EDIT: Basically I got greedy and wanted the chance to make one more check. | ||
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On March 08 2012 17:10 FourFace wrote: Flawless Victory. GG scum. Shame on vig. DT claim faster ffs. Townies try to prove your innocence faster above all else. DoYouHas .. I'm sorry dude. Forget about it. I don't think anyone here needs to hear advice from you. | ||
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