|
On April 14 2012 01:23 BroodKingEXE wrote: @artic Yomi is another one of my suspects. He keeps trying to say he has contributed something, but he hasn't talked about who he accused yet. So far his only response is that he has already stated his evidence. A lot of people have been asking him for more evidence, but he hasn't been giving any. This is scummy behavior to me, but willz takes more precedence as he posted more (I want to hear a different response from him before I come to a surefire conclusion). I am not sure about the third member as I don't have any scum reads on the rest of the town, and HIro or Trumpet could very well be mafia. That's the logic jump I have trouble with -- the fact that he's posted more somehow seeming scummier. To me, I feel like the reverse would be true.
Right now, willz and yomi seem to be the top 2 lynch candidates, and both strike me as playing scummy. I go back and read through both filters and say to myself, "Can I see mafia posting like this?" and in both cases, there's an inconsistency there that really just screams scum.
Then I ask myself the opposite question -- "Can I read this filter and see posting like this if I were town?" For willz filter, as of right now, I can at least talk myself into a case for it. He's asking questions and pointing out flaws, but concealing his own reads. There's a bad reasoning behind it, but I could see a solid line of logic flow between his posts, right up until he got angry at Dittert with no real reasoning (which is really the first time anyone's jumped on him, other than Dittert).
For yomi, right now, I can't. There's nothing in yomi's filter but anger, omgus, fluff, and constant repetition of the same point. That's why I can't switch my vote off of him. He's reading a stronger scum than willz right now, and is my primary candidate.
However, I'm still eagerly awaiting both of them posting this afternoon. I'm hoping we all get a clearer read from them.
|
On April 14 2012 02:11 willz22912 wrote:##Vote: BroodkingEXE Thanks for pointing that out. Anyway, adding on and trying to be as transparent as I can since I'm pretty much getting lynched. My other top scum reads are KharadBanar (He played well in Newbie VI if you see his OP and his filter, but he has posted little to nothing of worth, never stated an opinion on me, and now is jumping on my lynch because it's easy. Here's his post: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 20:31 KharadBanar wrote: Okay, I just got up and caught up with the thread, and that huge post by Acrofales did change my priorities here somewhat:
Before, my biggest scum reads went something like this: Dittert, yomi, HiroPro, maybe BroodKing (?) I had my vote on yomi to get him to contribute something useful, which isn't going to happen until shortly before the deadline so it's useless on him for that purpose and better off on one of my bigger scum reads.
Now Acrofales has posted his suspicion on willz, I see some extremely good points in that post and did as he said (read through willz's filter (1) "knowing" he was mafia and (2) "knowing" he was town) and the mafia explanation really does make a lot more sense.
Now my scum reads go as follows: willz, probably Dittert, and likely one of yomi and HiroPro the lurkers. With this in mind, and the fact that willz really needs to explain himself, I will change my vote to him for he is my biggest scum read right now.
##Unvote ##Vote: willz22912 So his opinion of Mafia behavior is to bus someone else this early? Why would Dittert be Mafia yet push his teammate's lynch? How does this logic work? What basis do you have of your own opinion to vote me, considering you never even had me on your radar before. My last suspicion is either imallinson or HiroPro, I called out imallinson because he was so quick to drop his stances on everything with a "good argument" and that Xatalos was letting him latch onto his case against ArcticFox without any questioning. HiroPro has also not contributed nearly as much as he could have. Lastly, I am also willing to give Yomi the benefit of the doubt and assume he's an overly defensive newb (since this is his first game as well) Say what you want about me OMGUSing my suspicions, I'm going to be dead after today, you need to remember these names and remember what I posted. I will try and be active as I can until the deadline in order to be of the most use to town. If you're actually town, fight to the end. We'll see your analysis if you end up lynched and flip green, so your most effective way to get out of this lynch (or leave a will, if you're pardon the pun) would be to focus on the scumhunting, not martyring.
For your arguments vs. Brood:
I agree with #4 -- that shot up a huge red flag to me as well, but why can you write off Dittert's assertions as noob, then see Brood's as malicious?
For your #6, I feel like you're just seeing a scumslip where there really isn't one.
The rest of the post is just defense over your argument with Dittert last night, or leadup to the argument for #4 -- it can mostly be written off the same way as Dittert's.
It's really a weak case, certainly not one worth waiting 42 hours for. Why are you so sure of Brood's guilt, but Dittert's innocence? I can read both filters as making noob mistakes.
As for KB, if you compare his filter to his other one, the case you could make here is so much stronger. The filter was looking close earlier in the day, but as the day's gone on KB has gone into full lurking and inactive mode. Why not choose KB as a stronger target?
Why not go after imallinson as well? Imallinson's filter reads SO scummy right now, it practically drips red.
What, other than the argument and OMGUSing from last night, is really leading you to Brood over everyone else?
I don't want you to get bandwagoned out, but some serious arguing needs to come in. So far you've voted for someone really on nobody's radar, with an argument that has serious flaws, and marked the only other people who've got serious scum vibes as a newb town. (Note that my vote is still on Yomi, as well as many others' suspicions.)
If you're town, don't give up. Get up and give us facts. If you're scum though, by all means keep martyring.
|
On April 14 2012 04:07 willz22912 wrote: @ Xatalos
You may be right about Yomi, but I feel it's most beneficial for town at this point to confirm my lynch and get the information from my flip to decide about others.
If you are right, then when I flip green, your case on Yomi is stronger because of it. If you leave me alive and we lynch Yomi instead and he flips green as well (which I still think is possible), then you have no choice but to lynch me next and then we have 2 mis-lynches in a row.
It's better to have me martyr myself for town than to try and save me at this point. You say you think Yomi is town, Yomi has stated he thinks you're town, but when you're lynched and flip green, the case for Yomi being scum is stronger? Why? And if so, this is a good thing how exactly?
Your play just keeps getting stranger, dude. This logic is even worse than what we've seen so far. It's sounding more and more desperate.
What about Yomi's filter makes you read him as noob instead of scum? His case vs. Dittert is awful, and the rest of the posting is angry and nonsensical.
Is there anyone beside Brood and the lurker (Trumpet) who you can build a solid case against for lynching?
I'm really close to ignoring your posts until the lynch to be sure. It seems like scum trying to keep attention on himself so we don't notice everything else going on. Why no reaction to Acrofales stirring up a shitstorm around you then disappearing before the vote with an "I can't read the thread or change my vote, I'm busy, but I like willz case." excuse? Sure he reads town to most everyone, but you HAVE to call him out on that, right? You were reading town to most everyone until last night too.
|
On April 14 2012 04:31 willz22912 wrote: @ ArcticFox
Read Xatalos' argument, it makes sense. If yomi was Mafia and he knew I was the likely lynch target, and he knows I'm really town, he can post that in his defense freely without giving too much away, it gains him credibility. The only reason he would post that without any other support is if he had inside knowledge
I think Yomi is newbie because he's tunneling Dittert for the same reason Dittert is tunneling me. Do you think Dittert is Mafia for posting the original case against me and trying to lynch me? How is this any different from Yomi against Dittert? They're both newb towns tunneling everyone.
I read through Acrofale's case on me and I see the logic in it because I'm reading an unbiased version of my accounts from a different perspective. I cannot argue against it, it makes sense, I suppose he could be Mafia making an easy case because of previous circumstance (Dittert/BroodKingEXE responses to me) but that's up to you to figure out since I won't be around now will I?
What do you want me to do, save myself by changing my vote to Yomi? And what happens if he flips red, all is forgiven and everyone will overlook my behavior? What happens if he flips green, then how do I explain myself? I'm in a lose-lose situation personally, and the best thing I can do for town is let my lynch go through and flip green to prove I was town. I want you to tell me why you think sacrificing yourself and throwing suspicion onto yomi is a good thing when you're convinced that yomi's a newbie town instead of scum. That's the whole basis of my statement.
@Xatalos -- my vote is already on yomi, so I agree with you. I'm wondering why willz would be for throwing more suspicion on yomi if he's sure that yomi's town.
|
On April 14 2012 04:42 willz22912 wrote: ##Unvote: BroodKingEXE ##Vote: Willz22912
This discussion is now pointless for me, and I'm a little sad/angry at myself for my poor play for letting it come to this point, so I'm going to leave now. I've stated all I can, I'll keep up with the thread and hopefully see a town victory. Town, look at who voted me, but focus on BroodkingEXE please, ignore Dittert, he doesn't know any better.
I suppose you should also look at Acrofales for making an easy case against me and then peacing out. GL If you flip green after this tantrum I'm going to be SO pissed at you for voting for literally the only person you 100% know is town.
If you flip red, thanks for saving me the next 3 hours of trying to drag more information out of you that we wouldn't be able to use.
|
On April 14 2012 05:03 Xatalos wrote: KharadBanar, I agree that nothing is certain until death, but there is no real explanation for yomi's actions unless he is Mafia and Willz is town (in my opinion). It's not 100% certain, but certain enough for me to not focus on Willz anymore.
I also urge you to vote for yomi. I see you think Willz is town, but unless you vote for yomi, he might be lynched soon. Your vote on HiroPro is doing 100% nothing at the moment and would be infinitely more useful on yomi. I was fine with the lynch moving to yomi when willz was responding confidently, and making reasonable, logical responses to everything that was thrown at him. Giving up to the lynch, making posts that weren't well thought out, and, finally, the deal-sealer in my eyes, voting for himself, then voting for Yomi just to save himself from the lynch, while consistently saying Yomi seems town, really makes things difficult. If yomi flips green D1, willz very likely dies Day 2, with no real discussion happening (or to vig shot, if we have it). If yomi flips red D1....nobody listens to willz anyway after that because he never actually made a case for yomi -- town confidence in him is zero right now.
Ever since the first time he was called out for his weak argument vs Brood, his posts have been progressively scummier. There's no logic or reason behind the posts anymore. It's all very desperate and martyrish and "well nobody will believe me anyway so why should I bother." There's a huge inconsistency going on here.
willz -- Who do you think is scum? Speak confidently and directly as you were yesterday, but present FACTS. This is more or less your last shot. I'm ready to change my vote over to you, and I've been pushing yomi for a full day. Settle down, go for a quick jog or something, wash your face, come back, and make a real case. The sooner the better though, as I'm not sure how many people will still be reading at the deadline. (I'll be here though!)
Mods: can we get another vote count? I think it's 4-3 between our top two right now, but with all the voting and unvoting I'm getting a little messed up in my counts. Thanks!
|
On April 14 2012 05:55 yomi wrote: maybe not hiropro actually, im gonna reread his filter right now. I never really looked at him too closely Read imallinson's filter while you're at it.
Also read your own filter while you're looking.
On April 14 2012 05:53 yomi wrote: Can't believe it has come to this Are you trying to tell me your filter doesn't look like scum? What have you actually done for town?
On April 14 2012 05:59 yomi wrote: Why so scared? I am one vote away from being lynched. I guess only a mafia gets scared when they are one vote away from being lynched.
before I am set to be lynched? what do you mean? you want me to post with 1 second left?
you can't see a motivation for a player to ensure they survive?
this is becoming dittert playing dumb level of ridiculous
Thank you for continuing to post gems like this. You remind me why I set my vote on you in the first place -- you're continually defensive rather than posting scum reads.
On April 14 2012 05:33 yomi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 04:49 Xatalos wrote: Willz, please listen. Look at the situation like this (I believe this is the case):
- Willz is town - yomi is Mafia
Here are the possible outcomes:
A) We lynch Willz. He flips town. We lynch yomi tomorrow. He flips Mafia. There is no certainty about who are townies and who are not. B) We lynch yomi. He flips Mafia. We now know Willz is town, as well as I and ArcticFox. We can lynch someone else tomorrow. But what if I flip town? How does it confirm you and arctic if I am mafia? Mafia trying to distance each other etc. This is not logical, this is circular. You are saying it is good to lynch me because I am mafia. OK. That's logical. Lynching a mafia is good. But your attempt to do this pseudo cost-benefit analysis is ridiculous as it is predicated on you being right in the first place, therefore it cannot be an argument for you being right! You are saying if I am mafia and willz is town it is better to lynch me than willz. Is this supposed to be an argument? This. If your filter was full of more posts like this, it would be golden, and yet it's getting glossed over because of how abrasive your tone is in so many of your posts. Xatalos' argument here was full of WIFOM and you nailed it on the head. It doesn't take any other situations into account except "I'm sure yomi is mafia." and "I'm sure willz is town."
So take it a step further. Does it mean anything? Many of Xatalos' posts have had these ridiculous logic leaps. It doesn't mean he's wrong here yet, because you haven't argued anything against it. I'm still convinced you're scum. But these are the steps you take to try to prove me wrong.
This is what it means to contribute -- point out the facts and the inconsistencies, not to continually be abrasive.
Remember -- even if you do get lynched as town, you still win the game as long as all the mafia are dead at the end. If you want town to win, post less pointless anger, and more scumreading.
|
On April 14 2012 06:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: This vote is way to close I am going to vote for Yomi to make sure Mafia don't get the initiative to switch. I have already put some thoughts down, but his recent posts haven't helped his case. He talks about how he has been flaming, and that he is going to get more information. The problem with this is that its roughly 1.5 hours to vote, any information he brings foward won't be able to analyzed properly and the voting will turn to chaos. Although I think willz is more likely scum.
##Unvote ##Vote: Yomi
What, WHAT? No, you can't get away with this.
|
EBWOP -- hit enter too quickly. Going to use the chance to look back through brood and willz filters. Stand by.
|
It makes willz case look SO much better too.
It's the most blatant scum move I've seen. Like pants-on-head dumb. Go read brood's filter immediately. I have to go pick up a pizza but I'll be back in about 40 minutes.
Brood, if you're town, that's literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life. There's been suspicion near you but you've flown under the radar. Answer for this.
On April 14 2012 06:39 vonKlaust wrote:Wait wait wait wait WHAT? Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 06:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: I think willz is more likely scum.
##Unvote ##Vote: Yomi
|
On April 14 2012 07:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:I thought that willz was more likely to be scum than Yomi. My thinking was that if I was wrong about either I don't want the Mafia (which could be Hiro or Trumpet to swing the vote). You couldn't really blame either of them as they have no posts so far. Swinging my vote to Yomi wasn't a bandwagon I talk about him here. I have reasons for voting for Yomi: Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 11:56 BroodKingEXE wrote:On April 12 2012 11:43 yomi wrote: Hi I just got back from lifting.
I can't think of a more pointless discussion than the one we are having now. It is being led by Broodking, Kharadbanar, and Dittert. I have the most confidence in willz and to a slightly lesser extent arctic.
I'm not sure what we SHOULD be discussing since no investigation abilities have gone out yet, but I doubt this is it. Getting people to talk just for the sake of it is great but my fear is that this discussion will bleed into day 2 when we will have some actual information. This is your first post, yet you do nothing to contribute. Why should we stop the discussion, it seems like people are already forming opinions on people based on the "pointless" discussion. Instead of trying to stop the talk, why dont you look over what has already been said and start forming ideas about the tone of the responses. Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 11:59 BroodKingEXE wrote: @willz at the moment I dont see anything particularly damning about your other posts, but why waste time engaging dittert? If you really think he is a newbie, then he is really no threat to you. We as a town haven't come to a consensus to vote for you. I think that yomi's baseless accusations are still more damning. This was before willz scummy post. Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 01:23 BroodKingEXE wrote: @artic Yomi is another one of my suspects. He keeps trying to say he has contributed something, but he hasn't talked about who he accused yet. So far his only response is that he has already stated his evidence. A lot of people have been asking him for more evidence, but he hasn't been giving any. This is scummy behavior to me, but willz takes more precedence as he posted more (I want to hear a different response from him before I come to a surefire conclusion). I am not sure about the third member as I don't have any scum reads on the rest of the town, and HIro or Trumpet could very well be mafia. Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 05:29 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Xatalos I think that Yomi is scummy, but we don't have enough to lynch him now. His latest case on dittert is shaky at best, but he hasn't spoken enough for me to draw a surefire conclusion. I think Willz and Yomi could both be scum, a Mafia could lightly defend his teammate to move suspicion off him. I agree that Willz pleading sounds pro-town, but I feel he still only has suspicions vs evidence on his suspected. I want him to build another case, because if he is a townie we need to know where to go after the night. The town might go after me, but if I flip town then four people would be dead with no leads on anyone. The only reason I didn't immediately switch to Brood before I left to get pizza was to get some sort of response, since I gave the same chance to willz and yomi. 40 minutes is sufficient to throw something solid together. This is not solid. willz made a case against you which was really weak on the first readthrough (and it's still a lot of fluff), but it was enough for me to keep an eye on you.
I was going to push you to contribute more tomorrow after the yomi lynch. Now I don't have to wait.
##Unvote ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
Town or scum, that move was dumber than a five pound sack of stupid. It's the most obvious scum play we've seen so far.
Also -- this should show that nobody was REALLY convinced of our cases vs. yomi and willz, seeing how easily so many of us came off of them. This is how Day 1 is -- we do our best to put cases together that make sense based on our reads and analysis of what people have said. I still see yomi and willz acting scummy, and I still need to see a much better effort from them in the rest of the game (if yomi isn't just flat out vig shot tonight.)
|
Damn you Brood. Damn you to hell. That was the dumbest thing I think I've ever seen.
The mafia is laughing at us right now.
Gah. I'm gonna get some air. This is ridiculous.
|
On April 14 2012 21:31 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 21:12 Acrofales wrote: @Xatalos: WTF. You're not proved anything at all until you're dead. Roleblocks don't stop mafia KP. You also just roleclaimed green, btw.
The rest of your post is one massive wall of wifom and completely pointless. Just. Don't. Okay? Really? I thought roleblock stops Mafia KP in this setup. Just look at this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324743&user=151616¤tpage=3 (the one where KharadBanar makes his last will and roleclaims before his death) Could we please get confirmation from a host? Ah, yeah... It doesn't really make sense for a blue to ask being jailed. But you don't know if I'm actually Jailer and just making the Mafia WIFOM into not shooting me, do you? Everything is possible. Even me being Mafia and wanting to buy a bit of credibility by sacrificing my power. I haven't announced my role yet. I'm glad you started posting and I like your response to my criticism of being AFK for the lynch. At the moment you read very town for me, so I agree with vonKlaust that you should be protected. At least we should encourage the Doctor to protect you - even if he decides otherwise, Mafia can't risk to waste their KP on you while you well might be protected. But I don't agree about telling who to investigate, because it would be too easy to frame then. Vigilante: yomi (preferably also explain your choice at the deadline, look at GOT where SLJ did this as well: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321496&user=239474¤tpage=3)Jailer: Xatalos Doctor: Acrofales Detective: use your own judgement Xatalos....please...for all our sakes, slow down your posting. Stop typing. No, I know you're already formulating a response to this before you're at the end of this sentence. Stop. Go back. Read your filter. Every single one of your posts has been either a parroted argument that someone else has already made, or a case full of so many logical fallacies and leaps that it's a wonder how you ever got there in the first place.
Posting a list of blue actions is not even relevant. Blues should already know what they're going to do. Having different targets for Jail/Doc in a semi-open setup where you don't even know if both roles exist (and likely don't both exist unless scum got some powerful roles too) is a headscratcher too. Beyond this, you gave no real reasoning as to *why* those should be people's choices. "Oh, I post a lot and I'm obviously town, because I say I am." is your whole reasoning to be protected. Yomi as vig shot is because "he's a distraction" -- as much of a distraction as dittert? Or even willz at this point? Yomi and willz are at about the same level in my mind -- why yomi over willz other than your "I'm sure that willz is town and yomi is mafia," statement? It's as poor as the rest of your logic.
I know you're trying to contribute, but your posting is all over the place. If I were on the scum team and you are actually town, you're exactly the kind of town I'd *want* to keep alive. Slow down, and think calmly before you post. Is this argument sound? Does it have a solid counterargument? etc.
Yomi is actually starting to make a little more sense to me as this goes on. He's been really the only one who's been saying Dittert is actually scum -- I've hinted at it, Acro and imallinson's FoS'd him, but yomi's been all over it since early day 1. Imallinson makes a big list of things picking apart Dittert's post, but the most damning things about it just scream scum to me.
First, his sudden change in tone from a meek, clueless, "is this ok?" style of posting to suddenly:
On April 14 2012 13:23 Dittert wrote: Here's my read: you're all a bunch of idiots. Seriously. ... ... ... After 3 or less games of mafia, what makes you think your intuition is worth anything? ... ... ... From now on, I would appreciate it if everyone read every post and ignored all of their feelings. Feelings are for little girls. Use your brain. ... ... ... For the love of god, will the vig please shoot yomi or willz tonight so we can get some real info? Thanks.
Willz was jumped all over for rabidly defending himself when accused, and suddenly switching from seeming helpful to getting aggressive. Dittert has done the exact same thing.
On April 14 2012 13:23 Dittert wrote: All I hear about is how "such and such FEELS scummy/townie to me." After 3 or less games of mafia, what makes you think your intuition is worth anything? I'll bet you FEEL like you're constantly producing SCV's too, and I bet you're in the bronze league. For everyone who saw Brood's play as "so obviously mafia/scumslip," what do you think of your judgement now? As I mentioned before, I thought Brood was just kind of bad town (or as I said, "says some really stupid shit"). ... ... ... From now on, I would appreciate it if everyone read every post and ignored all of their feelings. Feelings are for little girls. Use your brain. Does post X make sense if so and so is town? What about if they're mafia? Do I see a pattern of posting between people? Remember that the mafia are coordinating with each other. Can you pick out anything that looks like coordination between 3 people? If you think so and so is mafia, with whom are they working? Can you construct a consistent and compelling story about what might be happening in the thread? Are you willing to assume that most people are just chattering townies (which is statistically true)? Day 1, we HAVE no facts to go with. We are interpreting everything that every person posts, and we have to determine which posts feel the most scummy and run with those reads. To insinuate that you, or I, or anyone else in this game is doing something different is insulting and distracting. The first actual clue we have is "BroodKingEXE is town." Now we get to go back through BroodKing's filter and see what it means. In about 9 hours, we'll have 1 or 2 more people dead, and we'll go through *those* filters, and people who have posted about them, and start to put them together.
Saying "I was right about Brood, he was town, therefore I'm right and listen to me!" is awful logic. Go back and read the posts. Before Brood made what everyone can agree is the dumbest play of the game, nobody was voting for Brood. Even willz had taken his vote off of Brood and voted for yomi. We were convinced that one of those two were scum, and at worst we'd have more information today, and only something extremely large happening could take us off of that focus. Brood did exactly that, and that's the only reason he's dead. If he'd kept his mouth shut and kept his vote on willz, even *if* some people had jumped from yomi to willz at the last minute, we'd still have more information. yomi was up 5 votes to 4 and set to be lynched. The play made 0 sense. It still doesn't. That's why I got so pissed and left my computer last night. We gained almost nothing from a brood lynch except "well...Brood played badly."
The sudden change in tone, the constant horrible logic, and the playing of the noob card for far too long. It's time people started watching you.
##FoS: Dittert
|
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232671
Shoot people tallking nonsense. Shoot lurkers. If a vig exists, make a smart call. If the vig fires and hits a green, in a majority lynch situation it doesn't hurt much -- with no vig shot if we mislynch every time, Day 3 is 5-3, mislynch is 4-3, and mafia kill makes it 3-3 and game over. If vig hits and it's green, then Day 3 is 4-3, mislynch is 3-3, and game's over anyway. Saving the shot for Day 2 only makes sense if there's a) nobody talking nonsense b) nobody lurking and c) nobody the vig is really heavily thinking is mafia. It's extremely unlikely (and from where I stand, impossible) that all 3 of these are the case.
The only terrible vig result would be to shoot a blue, which is even less likely than hitting mafia, as I highly doubt there are 4 blues in play.
Now let's end this pointless blue talk. It's all WIFOM anyway. Let the night actions happen and get back to finding scum after the flips.
|
EBWOP -- Plurality lynch, not majority lynch
|
On April 15 2012 04:04 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 03:44 ArcticFox wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232671Shoot people tallking nonsense. Shoot lurkers. If a vig exists, make a smart call. If the vig fires and hits a green, in a majority lynch situation it doesn't hurt much -- with no vig shot if we mislynch every time, Day 3 is 5-3, mislynch is 4-3, and mafia kill makes it 3-3 and game over. If vig hits and it's green, then Day 3 is 4-3, mislynch is 3-3, and game's over anyway. Saving the shot for Day 2 only makes sense if there's a) nobody talking nonsense b) nobody lurking and c) nobody the vig is really heavily thinking is mafia. It's extremely unlikely (and from where I stand, impossible) that all 3 of these are the case. The only terrible vig result would be to shoot a blue, which is even less likely than hitting mafia, as I highly doubt there are 4 blues in play. Now let's end this pointless blue talk. It's all WIFOM anyway. Let the night actions happen and get back to finding scum after the flips. Do you think yomi is the best Vigi shot btw? And what do you think about the possibility of the Vigilante to claim his shot at the deadline? *sigh* I'm still loathe to talk about blue roles, but if you insist...
If the vig shoots someone the mafia is highly unlikely to kill, only then would the claim before deadline would be safe. I'd likely wait until *after* night 1 resolves, in case they shot the same target, then vig still has the bullet and hasn't claimed unnecessarily and takes no chance at being roleblocked. Since we won't know the kill flavors, any other play seems like a bad move. Any counterclaims would work themselves out by the Day 3 lynch, so the timing of the claim is more or less irrelevant.
For my vig target? There's at least 5 people who I could make a reasonable case for shooting right now, for either lurking, being highly suspected as scum, or posting just stupid shit over and over again. That's what's so terrible, especially in light of gaining no real information from the lynch -- there are SO many people with scum behavior it's actually impossible to tell. We don't have 1 or 2 good targets, we have more targets than actual mafia that exist. =/ Yes, yomi's on the list, but so are people like HiroPro and Dittert. I couldn't even really argue against a vigi hit on willz. The fact that the list is so large at all is what sucks. We need the entire town to be more active and more focused in the scumhunting. The random fingerpointing, the rage, the WIFOMing, the confusion, and the horrific logic jumps are doing nothing but making our job harder.
If you can go back through your filter and go, "wow, this actually can be read as REALLY scummy," then you're causing part of the confusion. Stop and read the filters. Make a solid, logical case. Post it. Read the counterarguments and see if they make sense or if they're full of crap. Be open and transparent with your reads. Anything else is just making the mafia's job easier and the town's job harder.
I really hope our Day 2 is more productive. We spent so much time arguing with each other, and then getting no actual info from the lynch that Day 1 was nearly a complete waste. I feel like the night flips will give us something better to work with, and hopefully a fresh start for all of us.
|
On April 15 2012 07:28 yomi wrote:I have no idea if claiming the shot is a good idea. Once he shoots he is just a green townie so it's not like he would be identifying himself as a "blue" per say. Although then if the mafia get him they would know there is no vigi anymore and it could help them potentially a lot in an end game scenario. Or can there be multiple vigis? I would like a response to my green question sorry this is all equivocal but I can't help it I am an econ major http://quotationsbook.com/quote/11809/p.s. don't shoot me and I don't think there should be a shot tonight at all tbh as for who to hit with saves this is way too wifom. go for people you are most confident are town? save me from an erroneous vig (i had to try)? the choice is yours and yours alone remember the only person you are 100% sure of is yourself so I might just turtle up tonight. Day 2 is in 30 minutes. You don't have much time left to turtle. Start readying your reads for some good discussion tonight.
And I believe there can be multiple of one role afaik since it's semi-open, but you'd have to ask a mod to be sure.
|
Knew it.
gg, gl town
|
|
AHHHHH. omg. OMG. omg.
Ok. I think I got out all my rage in the obs QT. But my gosh.....
|
|
|
|