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Edit: Is it 7 players then? =)
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
/in Edit: Is it 7 players then? =) | ||
Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
What I learned from DF2 was keep it simple. What that means here is to resolve the BH/Tunkeg thingy. While Radfields case is making sense I'll try to make my own case and own conclusions. On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day: COP CLAIM. Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea: Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim. 1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game. 2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players. 3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch. Cons. 1. Scum knows our Cop (obv). 2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales. 3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble. So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim. Tunkeg first post is solid. It makes sense. But why does he assume the Medic should be on the cop? He was expecting a counterclaim which means the Medic have to choose between the 2 cop claims on who to protect. From a scum perspective it would be fine since they get 25% chance to hit the medic out of the last remaining townies. A medic save besicly wins the game for us. But I get a town feeling from this. It just stood out to me. Then he go to fake-claim going to bed (lol). BH comes in supporting the claim. On April 14 2012 08:46 Blazinghand wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 08:13 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day: COP CLAIM. Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea: Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim. 1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game. 2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players. 3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch. Cons. 1. Scum knows our Cop (obv). 2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales. 3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble. So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim. Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK. That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking. Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him. If BH is cop. Why didn't he just claim right here? He already seemed convinced that it was the best choice. (Bolded) He also doesn't mention counter claiming at all. Scenario B will never happen since scum are forced to counter claim. I find it weird that being a cop you would not think about a Radfield post his super logic about claim or not to claim and BH instantly claims Cop. It lines up with him having already made up his mind. On April 14 2012 09:33 Blazinghand wrote: This makes me think BH thought about what being a cop would mean but since it very basic anyone could have brought it up. I'm not calling my check beforehand since mafia will just kill who I'm checking. I'll announce my result as soon as D1 starts. Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. Tunkeg and BH goes at eachother. Most post are entirely useless to us. But some stands out: On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot." Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim: "whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately". I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to? Which of us has played like he wants the town to win? But BH didn't discuss it? His first post he was already dead set on that the Cop should claim and he instant claimed after Radfields post (where Radfield himself was asking for discussion and not just stating: "Do this!") On April 14 2012 09:51 Tunkeg wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot." Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim: "whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately". I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to? Which of us has played like he wants the town to win? Lol, I would never ever in a million years suggest a cop claim N0 as a scum, as the cop claim is what wins us the game. But if I am not to claim I will pretend to be normal vanilla who brought it up, and who leaves the thread when no one is interested in continuing discussing it. It is currently 02:48 here, I could not sit around and wait for the thread to heat up. So I typed it up in thread, sent in my nightactions about 40 mins later, played some dota, and waited to see if we got some nightpost. Then Bluelightz comes in right after me to post, I continue to lurk, you come in and type your stuff, and then Radfield. Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you. Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic. On April 14 2012 11:08 Blazinghand wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even. That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum... I would, if I were cop, go back and read the OP very carefully to fully understand my role. It's weird that Tunkeg assumed he was a role cop. His PM doesn't say and as far as I'm aware alignment cops are the norm? This can be a misunderstanding but it could be a "slip". I don't think we should put much focus on this since we won't know which it is. To conclude something. Both have done things that I find scummy or "weird-if-town". The biggest point for me is that Tunkeg stayed up. Radfield naiiled when he said that scum is always looking for a reason to NOT be active. Sleeping is the best and most valid reason. I went to bed and I live in the same timezone as Tunkeg. Why wouldn't he do it? Because he know the game revolved around the cop and he was the cop so he HAD to stay up to make a difference. A big scumtell on BH is how he, in his first post, was dead set on claiming. But didn't. Then when Radfield made logic work he claimed. Later he claimed his mindset was to "wait and discuss". His words and actions just didn't add up. I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote. | ||
Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
On April 14 2012 17:49 Tunkeg wrote: @Dirkzor: You say: Show nested quote + "Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. ". The reason for me saying I am going to bed was that I wouldn't send in my nightactions and then go to bed, only to see that straight after I go to bed the nightpost goes up. Pretty much revealing to the scum that I had a nightaction. I did not stick around to counterclaim, I stuck around because I wasn't going to bed yet, but wanted to avoid what I wrote above. You also say: Show nested quote + Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic. I think scum wouldn't want to bring attention to a cop claim from the get go, but thats my opinion, and it is impossible for you to see whether I reallly mean it or if it is some scumtactics trying to portray my first posts as only something a townie would do. When it is allready out there well then it is just a matter of what the scumteam prefer, do they support a copclaim (which then will lead to a CC) or do they try to shut it down. I would go for the latter. I just don't understand why you'd have to lie about going to bed. Wouldn't it have been easier to just stop posting? It seemed you wanted to lure a reaction but at the same time you later wrote that you didn't think scum would claim cop so it just doesn't add up. The cop claim is already on the spotlight due the nature of the setup and the name. There is no avoiding a cop claim at some point during this game. All we had to figure out was when it was the best time to claim. So I don't agree with you here at all. With your logic anyone who talked about the cop claim and tried to figure out how it worked best/worst for us is town? Or am I mistaken here? Or is it only because you were the first one to bring it up that you are town? | ||
Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
Who do you think the first scum is? BH or Tunkeg? | ||
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WBG do you think we should just head directly into n1 asap? and then find the last scum d1 with potentially less targets? | ||
Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote: yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is? Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum. Only me that finds this suspicious? I mean asking this after we have confirmed BH as scum is the next logical step towards winning this, but asking before the flip?! Just doesn't seem very townie-like to do... | ||
Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
On April 14 2012 19:37 wherebugsgo wrote: also how the fuck would voting BH give me towncred? Everyone will ultimately vote BH today. It doesn't in itself. Everyone will vote him. Just combined with the fact that you had already move on from the BH/tunkeg situation before the lynch makes it suspicious. But you're right the voting thing probably doesn't mean much. The other part is still odd to me. | ||
Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
On April 14 2012 20:13 Radfield wrote: Also, let me reiterate. KIlling Tunkeg is actually a BAD move, unless the mafia cop-candidate is already in a bad position relative to the real cop. If you still have 50/50 than it makes sense to leave the cop and fight it out, because the medic has a good chance at a hero save N1. Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 20:04 wherebugsgo wrote: man if only johnny were here sucks the time zones are so far apart I'm less interested in Johnny and more in Dirkzor. What are your thoughts Dirkzor? I think BH should stop spamming the thread for starters... So annoying to read stuff. On topic: BL is making no sense. First up a weird town claim that we can use for nothing. Why? Just to say he is town? He is flip flopping on his reads all the time when pushed: On April 14 2012 19:38 Bluelightz wrote: Presto I'm town. Last scum somewhere between jwup for voting tunkeg, or rad/you (WBG) depending who dies tonight. Last scum is between Johnny or wbg/rad. Then: On April 14 2012 20:01 Bluelightz wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 19:59 Radfield wrote: On April 14 2012 19:58 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 19:57 wherebugsgo wrote: like, no shit if he doesn't live it's not a bus....what the fuck? Generally I think your town somehow also based on this and based of elimination it's jwup or radfield Why do you think Bugs is town? Elimination and he's been active, and I don't think scum would lunge at me like that. Now Radfield is no longer scummy On April 14 2012 20:14 Bluelightz wrote: Show nested quote + Your saying bugs is scum? Also, let's drop this... I'm gonna regret this if our scum but I think your town now, well you convinced me..... On April 14 2012 20:06 Radfield wrote: On April 14 2012 20:00 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 19:59 Radfield wrote: and yes, if I die I assume it would change your opinion of me..... Mostly my opinion of you is because I think you bussed and of elimination your one of two candidates for 2nd scum. Just to be clear, you think this was a bus: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2012 12:24 Radfield wrote: Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why. Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about th cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early. I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive. There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor. First is his response to me on page 3: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2012 08:46 Blazinghand wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 08:13 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day: COP CLAIM. Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea: Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim. 1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game. 2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players. 3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch. Cons. 1. Scum knows our Cop (obv). 2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales. 3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble. So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim. Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK. That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking. Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him. On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote: I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet. There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what. I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth. After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss. Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here. On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ok. Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB. His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence. Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post. Second is the contradiction between this: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. and this: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot." Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim: "whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately". I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to? Which of us has played like he wants the town to win? Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts. Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre. From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants. Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen. Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying: Show nested quote + Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you. This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly. Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:36 Tunkeg wrote: On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it! One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First. Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 09:36 Tunkeg wrote: On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it! Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum. BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town). Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive. I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though!). Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because.... It doesn't actually say anything in the cop PM! Blazinghand states this: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 11:08 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even. That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum... And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb. I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum. You realize that ludicrous right? The reason scum shot Tunkeg is because BH was outted, mainly by my spearheading. At that point no one was calling BH scum, and there was in fact gas on the Tunkeg fire because of his rolecop thing. Once BH was out in the open it only made sense for mafia to shoot Tunkeg. Yes, BH was obviously bussed, and that makes posts like this more legitamate: On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up. and posts like this fairly scummy: On April 14 2012 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote: I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this: That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking. Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen? Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do Now Johnny is town and Radfield or WBG is scum again. On April 14 2012 20:29 Bluelightz wrote: Wbg, Either you or radfield is scum, jwup is town because of the reasons in the next paragraph. Jwup is town because in my mind scum won't go this far on a person or as far as voting said person. Im open to change though It just doesn't add up. He is changing his opinion in the same pace that BH is posting stupid pictures... He also seems very keen on us hammering BH. + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2012 19:52 Bluelightz wrote: Oh..... Gaiz hammer him or not? On April 14 2012 19:56 Bluelightz wrote: BH just claimed scum lets kill him? On April 14 2012 20:00 Bluelightz wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 20:00 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 19:59 wherebugsgo wrote: BH you scum? yes Hammer him gaiz All this and he still downplay himself by saying he is useless town and blah blah. He is a good target for the last scum. The time(s?) I've seen him as scum he have been easily found out and makes mistakes when pressured. So this should make sense. He is a bit more active then last time he was scum but maybe he is trying to change it up since last... | ||
Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
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I'm not excluding anyone at this point and anyone doing so is stupid. wbg could very well be scum. He is certainly good enough to not make obvious mistakes. Johnny's filter is very bad at this point. He tried to undermine Tunkeg early on calling out a potential scumslip. It was stupid since Tunkeg was obviously (we know that now) not scum. He then voted hinting that he doesn't read or care to read the thread closely - hinting he is scum or just a bad reader. Then in his last post he basicly posted nothing taking no stance whatsoever. Not the same he had hinted earlier about him thinking Tunkeg was scummy for his "slip". If mattchew knew Tunkeg was about to die it would make sense to pull back on his "tunkeg is scum" statement. It was to late for him to bus BH since he already called Tunkeg the scum one of the two. So he was forced to write he didn't know which of them was scum. About it being bad. I'm not quite following you Rad. But since done is done there is no point arguing for or against... We can discuss post game. | ||
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I'm voting BH. Then you can hammer when you want. ##Vote Blazinghand NEXT ONE TO VOTE BH HAMMERS! - so don't do it unless you feel its time to do the nightphase. | ||
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On April 16 2012 01:41 Radfield wrote: How is it a 50/50 chance to confirm a second player? If we no-lynch, there is a chance that the doc will die tonight(1/3). That will leave us at a 2v1, exactly the same scenario as if the doctor claims right now. It the doc does not die and does not give us a save, it will give us a 50/50 shot tomorrow. The doc will claim, and mafia will either cc (giving a 50/50) or won't cc (giving a different 50/50). If the doc makes a save(~1/4 chance?), that means we will have 2 confirmed townies, leaving a 50/50 lynch. NO better than if he doesn't make a save. If the doctor claims today, we will have the confirmed doc, leaving us a 2v1, no better than our worse case scenario for tomorrow. It seems to me that no-lynching today is the best chance of victory. If the doc survives we are guaranteed a 50/50. If the doc dies we are no better off than right now. Thoughts? I agree. Better to have the chance to make it 50/50 tomorrow then to try finding the last scum today when the best scenario possible today is 2v1 (if the last scum doesn't counter claim of course). About who the last one is... I'm not sure. I won't exclude anyone at this point, but BL is probably on top. He haven't made much sense so far and haven't really chipped in with any thoughts of importance. He also continiously state that he is town. I'm just not sure if he really is the last scum or just not playing well. Johnny is posting carefully I think. Maybe scum tried to push tunkeg hard in the beginning and that was why he voted and all that jazz. When that didn't work out he went neutral. The fact that he is buddying me rubs me the wrong way. Then there is you (Radfield) who are making a ton of sense. But that just gives me the willies since I - by reputation - know that you are good at this mafia business. Maybe I'm just paranoid... I'm just scared that you are pulling all the strings here and we are just following you around. But tomorrow there are less suspects and it should make it easier. | ||
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Who do you think is the last scum? BL, any thoughts? | ||
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On April 16 2012 19:45 Bluelightz wrote: Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0. Who do you think is the last scum? BL, any thoughts? Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation. Why me and Radfield now? Is Johnny town? | ||
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You say you are still leaning with Rad as the scummiest of me and him - why? | ||
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On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0. Anything? I can see where you are coming from BL. But I disagree about your logic regarding Johnny and that worries me. I'm getting paranoid now. On April 17 2012 00:18 Radfield wrote: That's much better bluelightz. And i agree that there is no way scum will hit you tonight. lets see what the night brings. ##vote no-lynch You write as if you already think BL is town? Do you? ##Vote No-Lynch | ||
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How can you be confident while not having read filters btw? Seems weird unless you know something I don't. | ||
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On April 17 2012 04:47 johnnywup wrote: dead thread is dead ;; no lynch huh? right decision because a mislynch would cost us the game. if doc heals correctly then it's 100% win for town i think. if maf kills doc we're in a tough situation though. so this game is almost completely decided tonight. How do you figure that? Best case for us is any way where its 50/50. Only way this won't be the case is if Mafia hit our medic. It would be slightly better - in the way that we have more people to find the last - with a save tonight but it would still be 50/50 with 2 confirmed town. If mafia hit our medic it would end in a 2v1 scenario. | ||
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I agree very much with your analysis. I think the scummyness-gap between BL and Johnny is smaller. I think Johnny is a bit more scummy then you make him. Your point about him pointing out BL's contradicting statements was already pointed out by me. I just can't shake how he acted regarding the Tunkeg/BH situation day 1. Scum knew that 1 mislynch day1 would mean victory. Between Johnny and BH the obvious choice to fake-claim cop is BH. He have the thread presence and can write a lot of shit. Johnny just needed to push the idea that the real cop was scum (tunkeg). Thats what I think he did, but poorly. When they could see your and my posts suggesting BH as the scum one they changed tactics and so did Johnny's posting. I think the last scum is between BL and Johnny. With BL leading the race to scummyness. I have nothing really to add about BL then what you already wrote and what I've written earlier. Thats my reads if I die. | ||
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Blue is the last scum. If I'm not and BL is not claiming medic then Johnny have to be medic. That means BL is the last scum. I just can't figure out how he guessed Johnny was medic? There are no way to know who the medic is.. as scum or town?! So he guessed and got lucky? ##Vote Bluelightz GG BL. To bad we all figured you out anyway... | ||
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From your posting its clear you'll never claim medic. I'm not the medic, I'm town. That means Johnny is the medic and you are the last scum! I've just got home so I'll re-read and filter in a bit. Try to actually make a case (more then I already have) instead of using convoluted logic... | ||
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On April 17 2012 22:56 Bluelightz wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2012 22:41 Dirkzor wrote: How is that a scumslip? Are you going BH on us now and just spam up the thread because you know you lost? From your posting its clear you'll never claim medic. I'm not the medic, I'm town. That means Johnny is the medic and you are the last scum! I've just got home so I'll re-read and filter in a bit. Try to actually make a case (more then I already have) instead of using convoluted logic... Err my logic is that I think you are scum? Good effort dirk but your not town blame it on me though if jwup votes me I played terribly. DIRKZOR IS SCUM. I'll repeat that. Idc about making a case because you went from not sure town to sure scum with your first post in this day I'm not medic = scum or town but I know I'm town so your scum. JWUP. Hammer dirk and your sig will change for da better Hey dirk would town keep on stressing the fact that he's town? Would scum openly claim? From what I bolded you are using the logic anyone - town or scum - would use in this situation. Its shit because its the only argument you have. I have the same argument just reversed. As far as I am concerned it doesn't matter that I KNOW you are scum. I matters that I can convince Johnny that what I know to be true is also right. You don't even care to make a case because you can't really find evidence to prove that I'm scum. You just blatantly state it while I have 3+ days of scummyness from you that I (and Radfield) have pointed out throughout this game. On April 17 2012 22:58 Bluelightz wrote: You cemented my read dirk after killing radfield If I were scum why would I kill Radfield knowing you would pick me as the last scum? Doesn't make sense. Had you been the medic you would have had the deciding vote. So if I were scum I would be dead. Doesn't make sense for me to kill Radfield If I were scum. You are reaching. I think you killed Radfield so you had a clear reason to call me scum today. Also because Radfield clearly thought you were the last scum. You did the same night 1: On April 15 2012 10:22 Bluelightz wrote: I said its either you(radfield)/wbg and I said you were more townie in the post where I said it, I'm on the road posting from the phone so don't expect me to respond rly fast. Here I'm telling this again: I'm town and I'm not sure your town aswell. Scum hurry up wif your nk plz. That was just before night 1 ended and wbg died. I think you just forgot about the No-lynch option and had to change your plan instead of getting Radfield killed. So now you made it between me and him and killed Radfield assuming I was either the medic or the townie who would be protected. Also: On April 15 2012 16:09 wherebugsgo wrote: dunno if I'll be around or not for the daypost, but if I die tonight let it be known that I believe bluelightz to be the scum. On April 17 2012 11:48 Radfield wrote: bluelightz is very likely the last scum | ||
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On April 17 2012 23:01 Bluelightz wrote: Guys if you look at dirks first conclusion he says that he thinks BH is more scummy but slightly encourages change in mind. You really are making this easy for me BL. Why wouldn't I encourage change of mind on the BH/Tunkeg situation? It was before any flip. I didn't know you would kill Tunkeg so BH would be confirmed scum... Had I know it would have been easy to just call out BH as a scummy bastard! | ||
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And BL I'm not trying to convince you that you are scum. You already know that. I'm trying to convince Johnny. | ||
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On April 17 2012 23:38 Bluelightz wrote: Fact is this: your trying to lynch me for being me. You played with me many times dirk, u know that I'm useless, now your trying to push me for it. I'm just playing in a way that I think is good to win. Side note: I want to release my emotions right now ;; Thats actually why I've not been completely sure you were the last scum. Thats why I pointed out Johnny as the potential last scum just before day post. I've had this annoying feeling you were being you normal self. But all that is just WIFOM now since I know you are scum. I'm currently re-reading the entire thread waiting for Johnny. Post when you are here Johnny. | ||
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On April 14 2012 09:55 Tunkeg wrote: Bluelightz where you at by the way? To busy discussing with BH in the scumQT or care to bring some imput? Instant delurk: On April 14 2012 10:01 Bluelightz wrote: I dont fucking have an idea on what to say but my logic says this Tunkeg scum => Radfield Tunkeg scum team BH scum => BH & ??? Scum team. His post before this was more than 30 min ago while there was lots of discussion between BH/Tunkeg/Radfield He gets extremely defensive when questioned: On April 14 2012 19:57 Bluelightz wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 19:56 wherebugsgo wrote: On April 14 2012 19:55 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 09:44 Radfield wrote: I like that both of you spent time discussing the cop claim first. Right now after an extremely cursory glance I have deduced that Blazinghand is probably the scum. I'd say at least a 56% chance. I think this is a bus but depending on if you live or not after n2 my opinion will change. do you purposely try to sound stupider every time you post? That's what I think, you have a bone to pick with me or something? On April 14 2012 20:02 Bluelightz wrote: No, end of story I'm useless town? Okay? The rest have already been pointed out here: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2012 20:16 wherebugsgo wrote: I say it like it is! In RL that tends toward me being "brutally honest" with people. Although in mafia I exaggerate it because it's a good way (IMO) to make people react genuinely. RE this post: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 20:06 Radfield wrote: On April 14 2012 20:00 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 19:59 Radfield wrote: and yes, if I die I assume it would change your opinion of me..... Mostly my opinion of you is because I think you bussed and of elimination your one of two candidates for 2nd scum. Just to be clear, you think this was a bus: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2012 12:24 Radfield wrote: Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why. Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about the cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early. I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive. There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor. First is his response to me on page 3: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2012 08:46 Blazinghand wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 08:13 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day: COP CLAIM. Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea: Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim. 1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game. 2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players. 3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch. Cons. 1. Scum knows our Cop (obv). 2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales. 3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble. So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim. Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK. That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking. Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him. On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote: I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet. There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what. I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth. After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss. Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here. On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ok. Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB. His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence. Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post. Second is the contradiction between this: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. and this: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot." Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim: "whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately". I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to? Which of us has played like he wants the town to win? Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts. Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre. From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants. Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen. Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying: Show nested quote + Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you. This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly. Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:36 Tunkeg wrote: On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it! One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First. Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 09:36 Tunkeg wrote: On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it! Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum. BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town). Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive. I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though!). Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because.... It doesn't actually say anything in the cop PM! Blazinghand states this: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 11:08 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even. That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum... And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb. I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum. You realize that ludicrous right? The reason scum shot Tunkeg is because BH was outted, mainly by my spearheading. At that point no one was calling BH scum, and there was in fact gas on the Tunkeg fire because of his rolecop thing. Once BH was out in the open it only made sense for mafia to shoot Tunkeg. Yes, BH was obviously bussed, and that makes posts like this more legitamate: On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up. and posts like this fairly scummy: On April 14 2012 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote: I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this: That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking. Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen? Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do I disagree, obviously because I am town, but also because I had come to the conclusion that BH was scum and I was looking for the second scum. I was trying to jump the gun. Dirkzor was correct to point out that I had assumed BH was scum and I was trying to move on early. It doesn't exonerate Dirkzor, since some of his wording was questionable, but I think between the remaining four players you and dirkzor would rank above johnny and bluelightz. Right now bluelightz is acting incredibly strangely and not responding to the questions we're asking in a way I'd expect a townie to respond. It's really weird that he got prickly to my question of "are you scum" and he actually called himself useless. I'd expect that if he were actually town to take offense to that and at the very least try to prove he's not useless. On April 14 2012 21:19 Dirkzor wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 20:13 Radfield wrote: Also, let me reiterate. KIlling Tunkeg is actually a BAD move, unless the mafia cop-candidate is already in a bad position relative to the real cop. If you still have 50/50 than it makes sense to leave the cop and fight it out, because the medic has a good chance at a hero save N1. On April 14 2012 20:04 wherebugsgo wrote: man if only johnny were here sucks the time zones are so far apart I'm less interested in Johnny and more in Dirkzor. What are your thoughts Dirkzor? I think BH should stop spamming the thread for starters... So annoying to read stuff. On topic: BL is making no sense. First up a weird town claim that we can use for nothing. Why? Just to say he is town? He is flip flopping on his reads all the time when pushed: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 19:38 Bluelightz wrote: Presto I'm town. Last scum somewhere between jwup for voting tunkeg, or rad/you (WBG) depending who dies tonight. Last scum is between Johnny or wbg/rad. Then: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 20:01 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 19:59 Radfield wrote: On April 14 2012 19:58 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 19:57 wherebugsgo wrote: like, no shit if he doesn't live it's not a bus....what the fuck? Generally I think your town somehow also based on this and based of elimination it's jwup or radfield Why do you think Bugs is town? Elimination and he's been active, and I don't think scum would lunge at me like that. Now Radfield is no longer scummy Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 20:14 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 20:06 Radfield wrote: Your saying bugs is scum? Also, let's drop this... I'm gonna regret this if our scum but I think your town now, well you convinced me..... On April 14 2012 20:00 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 19:59 Radfield wrote: and yes, if I die I assume it would change your opinion of me..... Mostly my opinion of you is because I think you bussed and of elimination your one of two candidates for 2nd scum. Just to be clear, you think this was a bus: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2012 12:24 Radfield wrote: Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why. Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about th cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early. I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive. There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor. First is his response to me on page 3: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2012 08:46 Blazinghand wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 08:13 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day: COP CLAIM. Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea: Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim. 1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game. 2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players. 3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch. Cons. 1. Scum knows our Cop (obv). 2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales. 3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble. So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim. Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK. That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking. Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him. On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote: I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet. There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what. I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth. After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss. Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here. On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ok. Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB. His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence. Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post. Second is the contradiction between this: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. and this: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot." Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim: "whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately". I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to? Which of us has played like he wants the town to win? Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts. Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre. From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants. Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen. Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying: Show nested quote + Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you. This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly. Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:36 Tunkeg wrote: On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it! One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First. Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 09:38 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 09:36 Tunkeg wrote: On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it. I am the cop. Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it! Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum. BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town). Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive. I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though!). Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because.... It doesn't actually say anything in the cop PM! Blazinghand states this: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 11:08 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even. That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum... And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb. I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum. You realize that ludicrous right? The reason scum shot Tunkeg is because BH was outted, mainly by my spearheading. At that point no one was calling BH scum, and there was in fact gas on the Tunkeg fire because of his rolecop thing. Once BH was out in the open it only made sense for mafia to shoot Tunkeg. Yes, BH was obviously bussed, and that makes posts like this more legitamate: On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up. and posts like this fairly scummy: On April 14 2012 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote: I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this: That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking. Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen? Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do Now Johnny is town and Radfield or WBG is scum again. Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 20:29 Bluelightz wrote: Wbg, Either you or radfield is scum, jwup is town because of the reasons in the next paragraph. Jwup is town because in my mind scum won't go this far on a person or as far as voting said person. Im open to change though It just doesn't add up. He is changing his opinion in the same pace that BH is posting stupid pictures... He also seems very keen on us hammering BH. + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2012 19:52 Bluelightz wrote: Oh..... Gaiz hammer him or not? On April 14 2012 19:56 Bluelightz wrote: BH just claimed scum lets kill him? On April 14 2012 20:00 Bluelightz wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 20:00 Blazinghand wrote: On April 14 2012 19:59 wherebugsgo wrote: BH you scum? yes Hammer him gaiz All this and he still downplay himself by saying he is useless town and blah blah. He is a good target for the last scum. The time(s?) I've seen him as scum he have been easily found out and makes mistakes when pressured. So this should make sense. He is a bit more active then last time he was scum but maybe he is trying to change it up since last... On April 17 2012 11:48 Radfield wrote: --snipped-- bluelightz bluelightz I have an incredible time reading. His posts are basically just his blurbs of though from the exact moment he is typing. More than 2/3rds of his posts are 1-liners(including a zero-liner!), and the others are often just him repeating himself. It's almost like he's trying to look scummy, as he hits ever major checklist item: - Super wishy-washy with reads - calls himself useless multiple times - gives himself an excuse to still be alive(when he didn't need one) - calls everyone town for weak reasons, and calls no one scum. Honestly he has no actual reasons for why anyone is scummy. However, some of what he's written I just don't understand why mafia would write. Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 10:01 Bluelightz wrote: I dont fucking have an idea on what to say but my logic says this Tunkeg scum => Radfield Tunkeg scum team BH scum => BH & ??? Scum team. Then he backtracks like 5 minutes later when I ask him what ties me to Tunkeg. It's like he's just writing stream of consciousness. I've glanced over a couple of his other games, one as scum and one as town, and honestly neither looks like this. The bluelightz in those games looks like a guy actually playing the game, whereas for the first few days of this game bluelights is out to lunch: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 19:32 Bluelightz wrote: Okay. The doctor selected BH I guess :| answer coming as I read pals filter Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 19:55 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 09:44 Radfield wrote: I like that both of you spent time discussing the cop claim first. Right now after an extremely cursory glance I have deduced that Blazinghand is probably the scum. I'd say at least a 56% chance. I think this is a bus but depending on if you live or not after n2 my opinion will change. Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 19:56 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 19:55 Blazinghand wrote: -picture- BH just claimed scum lets kill him? Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 20:01 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 19:59 Radfield wrote: On April 14 2012 19:58 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 19:57 wherebugsgo wrote: like, no shit if he doesn't live it's not a bus....what the fuck? Generally I think your town somehow also based on this and based of elimination it's jwup or radfield Why do you think Bugs is town? Elimination and he's been active, and I don't think scum would lunge at me like that. Some of this stuff is just ridiculous, and I kind of expect a mafia to be more careful in their posting. However, the list of scum-tells is just too long. In particular, and most damning, are his reads(and contradictions) and lack of reads: Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 19:38 Bluelightz wrote: Presto I'm town. Last scum somewhere between jwup for voting tunkeg, or rad/you depending who dies tonight. Jwup is scummy for voting tunkeg Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 19:58 Bluelightz wrote: On April 14 2012 19:57 wherebugsgo wrote: like, no shit if he doesn't live it's not a bus....what the fuck? Generally I think your town somehow also based on this and based of elimination it's jwup or radfield Jwup is still scummy, along with radfield. Bugs is now town for some strange reason Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 20:29 Bluelightz wrote: Wbg, Either you or radfield is scum, jwup is town because of the reasons in the next paragraph. Jwup is town because in my mind scum won't go this far on a person or as far as voting said person. Im open to change though Jwup is now town for voting Tunkeg... Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 19:49 Bluelightz wrote: My mind tells me that dirk being drunk is a sign of being town because i don't think scum would've kinda did that IMO, aside that he has been giving his opinion on stuff like BH\tunkeg thing Dirkzor is town for being drunk and giving an opinion Show nested quote + On April 14 2012 20:20 Bluelightz wrote: IMO dirk is town, he uses logic for his reasons on stuff, him being drunk lol,etc. Dirkzor is still town, this time with an actual arguable reason Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 19:45 Bluelightz wrote: On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0. Who do you think is the last scum? BL, any thoughts? Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation. Show nested quote + On April 16 2012 22:27 Bluelightz wrote: On April 16 2012 21:48 Dirkzor wrote: On April 16 2012 19:45 Bluelightz wrote: On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0. Who do you think is the last scum? BL, any thoughts? Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation. Why me and Radfield now? Is Johnny town? johnny is town because IMO scum wouldnt go that far on Tunkeg like johnny did Its either you or Radfield because out of elimanation you and radfield are left out as the most not sure town reads, I'm still leaning on Radfield but depending on tonight's NK im maybe going to change. Dirkzor is now one of the top scum candidates(for no reason), equal to radfield. Johnny goes from scummy to most townie for the exact same reason(voting Tunkeg). Dirkzor goes from likely town to equal scum candidate for no reason at all. Radfield is scummy for a random reason. Mainly by process of elimination. WBG is town for a really random reason. Basically, no one is ever on the scum list by virtue of being scummy. People are on the scum list by virtue of not being seen as townies. That would even be fine and dandy if the list of townies wasn't constantly changing for random reasons. When I am scum, I find it very hard to call out townies as being scummy, because I KNOW they are not scum. Likewise everything they do seems like a townie tell, because I KNOW they are townies. That certainly seems what is going on here. It's possible that bluelightz is just a poor townie, and for that reason I am continuing to keep my mind open. I refuse to lose because 1 townie played really bad. If we had more than one mislynch this game, killing bluelightz would be a no-brainer. If he's not scum, then it's the worst town play I've ever seen, which is actually possible, as something has to be the worst I've seen The only real other reservations I have about bluelightz possibly being town is his exchange with BH after BH was revealed. It was weird for sure, and I don't know what to make of it. Again, I would not expect mafia to post like he did. Anyways, bluelightz is probably the last scum, fortunately bugs agrees with his dying post. The only niggle is that johnnywup could potentially be the last scum, but I doubt it at this point. bluelightz is very likely the last scum On April 17 2012 12:46 johnnywup wrote: I don't think bl is a bad townie, he usually puts more effort in so he's either scum or busy. most likely scum. its weird how different he is in this game than any other game i've seen/played with him in it. Also calling someone town then KPing them seems like a way for scum to be like "ha i told you he was town!" thing, trying to clear himself of guilt. good writeup, i agree with the points, i almost wish it was a third party writing that so i could see an analysis on you haha. its good to see someone putting effort in this dead thread. If BL turns out to be town i will be extremely shocked. (PS way to use my contradiction argument as your own ><) | ||
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I'll be going to bed within an hour and a half... I've just posted why BL is scummy. Any question please shot before I go to bed... | ||
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On April 18 2012 04:17 johnnywup wrote: No questions for you I just want to know BL's explanation. I doubt anything he can say will change my mind on him being scum though I can understand the need for answer from BL, but if you don't really think he can provide an answer that turn you around can you just vote now so we can celebrate? | ||
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Night! | ||
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On April 18 2012 14:56 Barundar wrote: DIrkzor slipped in the end. If he was town, and he was sure BL was mafia, then he would have known jonny to be medic by process of elimination. Dirkzor would have had to counter claim medic if BL had been medic, so he could not commit to a role untill he knew who was the real medic. So when dirkzor posts a line wondering how bluelights knew jonny to be medic, it should be clear dirkzor doesn't know his own town role. For setting up that gambit alone i think BL did ok, and it was just up to jonny to realise this. Gg was entertaining. Medic/detective night actions? This is wrong. If I was town either Johnny or BL could be the medic. I had no way to know before BL obviously did not claim medic in the end. BL just blatantly stated that Johnny was medic due him being so sure the last scum was between me and Rad. He had no real evidence however, only his own conviction. Thanks for hosting Palmar! The setup was REALLY cool and super intense! BH - Good job claiming cop! =) I'm sorry I had to sacrafice you but Radfield had your number early. I kinda rushed a bit in the end while I throughout the game had played for the long run. Was bad. I shot Radfield in the end since I wouldn't end up in a situation where it was between me and him. Even if medic had protected him it would never be between me and him. It would have been Radfield + medic confirmed against me and either BL/Johnny. I'm at work and will write more when i get home =) Super game! | ||
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I'm looking forward to radfields take on this... looking through the scum qt it seemed I fooled a lot of people I don't understand how people could find radfield scummy at all. Everything he posted made so much sense even though he was wrong.... | ||
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His analysis post impressed me as a Mafia player. Its was a really good post. But at the same time my scum hands were clapping since he was so wrong =) | ||
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Aaaaargh can't decide. This scum team! Putting all faith left in Bluelightz may have been a genious move by scumteam. I got to have faith I stay on BL as scum. Or did Dirk lie twice about beeing drunk? No, I stay on BL! I didn't lie about being drunk btw :D Those post just took execptionally long time to write. | ||
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On April 18 2012 20:34 Bluelightz wrote: Show nested quote + On April 18 2012 19:49 Tunkeg wrote: This game was won because of good scumplay, and to an extent low activity by town. You might say it is random, and sure there will allways be some randomness, but in the end it came down to scum outplaying town, again. Don't apologize BL. Yeah, you may be hard to read, but thats part of the game, some players are harder to read. If everyone was easy to figure out this game would be pointless. As long as you try your best to win regardless of alignment don't apologize. And also for you johnny, don't feel down for beeing wrong. I love how these pro veteran comes in after the game and tell how easy it was to see that Dirkzor was scum. Don't know if their motives is to make you look bad or to make themselves look great. But in hindsight everything is easy, so don't feel bad. Its fucking hard not to because I was the one scummy in the first place and that's why johnny voted me. EDIT: and this time I was called worst player evar by everyone town! I actually think you played like you always do and would have thought you were town. But I kinda had to call you scum You had a big inactivity period which you normally don't have. In hindsight I should have not killed anyone the last night. If Johnny had protected me I was home safe. If he had protected someone else it would be a similar situation as it was, with a 50/50 situation - and most probably between myself and BL =) That would have been an awesome move =) | ||
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